Conspiracy Theorists

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=hradek_ej&id=1732537

The idea to limit the goaltender's movement was spearheaded by Wings GM Ken Holland, a minor-league goalie during his playing days. Holland and several of his colleagues feel the new rule would encourage more forechecking, thus creating more scoring chances.

That doesn't mean that Clarke wasn't also pushing hard for the rule. But I'm sure he only wants it for the good of the game, right?

You forgot to include this:

"And you have to wonder about the motivation of Holland and some of his peers. Would any of them, if they had a goalie like Brodeur on their roster, push for such a change? I don't think so."

I'm glad to see Hradek is one writer who can see it for what it is, with his dumb-down comments.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=24661

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=71821

``Goalies have one or two privileges that other players don't have,'' said Montreal Canadiens GM Bob Gainey, such as being able to glove the puck and also avoid being bodychecked. ``They use those privileges to advantage for their team and for themselves individually.

``The options are to try to in some form, whether it's the ones that are recommended or to direct or limit them, or whether to leave them vulnerable where we take away their privileges and they'd be treated like regular players.''

In other words, unless goalies would prefer getting smashed into the boards when they try to play the puck, they shouldn't grumble about the proposed changes. In the minds of many GMs, the goalies have had too much negative impact on the offensive side of the game in the last decade or so and it's time to correct it.

And the goalies' tremendous ability to puck-handle was seen as an unwanted part of the modern evolution of the game.

``That was a real philosophical question that a lot of managers asked themselves and asked the group,'' Campbell. ``Is it a skill that developed over time that we have to acknowledge or accept, is it one that we want in our game? Or do we have to accept and look at the position of the goalie and say he was meant to be in the net to stop shots, not block shots, and he has a stick meant to stop shots, not play shots.''

Regardless of who proposed the change, in my estimation it really only effect 3 tenders. Turco, Osgood and Brodeur.

Broduer is head and shoulders above the others in this category.

If you don't believe this is aimed at Brodeur (again who ever proposed it) you are kidding yourself.

Regardless of who proposed the change, in my estimation it really only effect 3 tenders. Turco, Osgood and Brodeur.

Broduer is head and shoulders above the others in this category.

If you don't believe this is aimed at Brodeur (again who ever proposed it) you are kidding yourself.

It effects alot more than 3 goalies. There are plenty of goalies that while they may not be as good as Brodeur at shooting the puck, are excellent and stopping the puck on dump ins around the board, seeting them up for their defenseman.

If this rule passes goalies won't be allowed behind the net to stop the dump-ins.

It effects alot more than 3 goalies. There are plenty of goalies that while they may not be as good as Brodeur at shooting the puck, are excellent and stopping the puck on dump ins around the board, seeting them up for their defenseman.

If this rule passes goalies won't be allowed behind the net to stop the dump-ins.

But there's only a few goalies who impact the game with their skills. This is an effort by the majority to nullify the skills that a few goalies have perfected, and it's a disgrace.

But there's only a few goalies who impact the game with their skills. This is an effort by the majority to nullify the skills that a few goalies have perfected, and it's a disgrace

No, an effort to reduce the effectiveness of the trap. If a defenseman has to come back to play the puck because a goalie can't, thats one less person to clog up the netural zone and more space for forecheckers to get through.

But there's only a few goalies who impact the game with their skills. This is an effort by the majority to nullify the skills that a few goalies have perfected, and it's a disgrace.

A goalie's skill is measured in how he stops the puck, not how he stickhandles.

A goalie's skill is measured in how he stops the puck, not how he stickhandles.
The thing is though, Brodeur prevents goals as well as he contributes to them with his remarkable puckhandling prowess. He can start an offensive rush passing the puck with textbook precision just the same as most of our own blueliners can.

It effects alot more than 3 goalies.

Yes but does it affect them all and affect them all equally? The answer is no.

If the league is genuinely interested in increasing scoring, then it should adopt rules and field-of-play changes that apply regardless of the goalie's style of play. What is being targeted in this proposed change is a specific skill set held by a specific, small group of players.

Increasing the size of the nets applies the same to everyone.
Decreasing the size of pads applies the same to everyone.

Banning this style of hockey play is roughly equivalent to MLB announcing tomorrow that the knuckleball is outlawed. Will that increase scoring? Sure but at the expense of one set of players: knuckleballers.

Yes but does it affect them all and affect them all equally? The answer is no.

If the league is genuinely interested in increasing scoring, then it should adopt rules and field-of-play changes that apply regardless of the goalie's style of play. What is being targeted in this proposed change is a specific skill set held by a specific, small group of players.

Increasing the size of the nets applies the same to everyone.
Decreasing the size of pads applies the same to everyone.

Banning this style of hockey play is roughly equivalent to MLB announcing tomorrow that the knuckleball is outlawed. Will that increase scoring? Sure but at the expense of one set of players: knuckleballers.

Making the nets bigger doesn't change the game, and won't change the style of game that is played. It will just increase goal scoring slightly.

The object is to increase the tempo and style of what the game has become. They have tried obstructions crackdowns and they haven't worked.

Yes, some goalies and teams are more effected than others, the theory however is what's known as "the greater good".

If they didn't feel an overwhelming need to protect goalies, they would just make them fair game to be hit, but they treat them like NFL quarterbacks.

Making the nets bigger doesn't change the game, and won't change the style of game that is played. It will just increase goal scoring slightly.

The object is to increase the tempo and style of what the game has become. They have tried obstructions crackdowns and they haven't worked.

Yes, some goalies and teams are more effected than others, the theory however is what's known as "the greater good".

If they didn't feel an overwhelming need to protect goalies, they would just make them fair game to be hit, but they treat them like NFL quarterbacks.

Yeh but the NFL doesn't forbid quarterbacks from crossing the line of scrimmage, even though their job is to pass the football, not run it. The goalie is the last line of defence, and if that means he can use a skill he's honed over his career to help the defence, what gives the league the right to take away that skill? They can increase the flow of the game by calling all obstruction penalties, instead of instituting an anti-Brodeur rule. If Brodeur was on the Flyers and Lou was pushing for a rule that prohibits a big part of his game, you think you would see that as a move to improve the league or to hamper their biggest rival?

If the league is genuinely interested in increasing scoring, then it should adopt rules and field-of-play changes that apply regardless of the goalie's style of play. What is being targeted in this proposed change is a specific skill set held by a specific, small group of players

First the skill's that small group of players has takes away from the offense another tema can generate, which is why they want to stop players from taking advantage of that skill, to increase offense. Second, why don't they allow players to make two-line passes? That rule infringe on the small group of elite passers in the nhl that could make very long, accurate passes out of their zone and launch break aways? Most rules infringe on SOME players ability to do something, thats what rules are for.

A goalie's skill is measured in how he stops the puck, not how he stickhandles.


That's like saying a quarterback can't run pass the line of scrimmage. And will this create more faceoffs by goalies freezing the puck and defensemen getting hurt?

I would wrather see the size of the nets increased. Taking away a players developed skill is ridiculous. It like making the hoop higher in basketball because its easier for Shaq to dunk. I think all theses dramatic changes are doing nothing but creating a "hybrid" hockey game. I guess this is just another side of the "playstationization" of sports. :dunno:

I would wrather see the size of the nets increased. Taking away a players developed skill is ridiculous. It like making the hoop higher in basketball because its easier for Shaq to dunk. I think all theses dramatic changes are doing nothing but creating a "hybrid" hockey game. I guess this is just another side of the "playstationization" of sports. :dunno:



I agree...and also don't like the idea of pads getting narrower. Big goalies look ridiculous in skinny pads. It almost seems criminal to take the puckhandling skills away from goalies, it's what sets so many apart. I don't really agree with the QB comparison...I think their original job was to just hand off and run. Wouldn't football be great if they reverted back to no passing? :joker:

do you guys not realize the state the NHL is in right now?

They have to make drastic changes to increase the flow but more importantly the entertainment value associated with the NHL and this is ceratinly a step in the right direction.

I know the few Devil fans love seeing their beloved team set up and clog center ice to the point where your lucky if you can even gain the redline and if you do you are forced to ddump it in at that point and then you still have to fight through the 5 man unit continuing to clog center ice to the point where by the time you gain the attacking zone Marty is firing the puck right back into the neutral zone to start the play within the neutral zone all over again.

Yes the Devils have had undeniable success in playing this style but it is also undenaible that this is as un-fan friendly as the sport can get and even the Devs with their 3 Cups in 9 yrs have had trouble to say the least with their popularity and for those w/the bulls%^T excuses about the Meadowlands save it b/c that is nonsense but I don't even want to get into that b/c that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Bottom line is the level of entertaining play has dwindled to a ridiculous level over the last decade and the Devils are the poster children for perfecting this passive, defense 1st 2nd and 3rd style of play which has all but negated any skating and skill that is on display on any given night in the NHL.

A goalie's job is to stop the puck.That is what measures a great goalie.Marty's puckhandling and the Devils trap have worked great to reduce the number of shots and amount of pressure he has faced butwhat has happened with goalies being able to wander all over the ice with no chance at getting hit has slowed the game and taken away bigtime from the flow amoung the skaters.

I saw a post linked to a thread that was on this very site where it was a breakdown of how many times Marty handles the puck and it was 30+ times within the 1st 2 F'in periods!!!

That is way too much for a players who is ineligible to get hit and it crushes the flow of the game.

And for those who say to just let the goalies be fair game you'd quickly change your tune when you saw a Tyson Nash of the like crank Marty behind the net leaving him with a seperated shoulder that puts him on the shelf for 3 months and we'd see what you felt about it then.

The game needs some life brought back into it that the defensive styles have choked to death and the major declining in TV and gate reciepts show this.

A goalie's skill is measured in how he stops the puck, not how he stickhandles.
A Habs fan saying this? Yikes, Jacques Plante will be turning in his grave. He's the pioneer of such skills.

A Habs fan saying this? Yikes, Jacques Plante will be turning in his grave. He's the pioneer of such skills.

Don't forget Patrick Roy!

Also, this doesn't stop goalies from shooting the puck, it only stops them from going behind the goal line to handle it.

Don't forget Patrick Roy!

Also, this doesn't stop goalies from shooting the puck, it only stops them from going behind the goal line to handle it.

Which is where the goalies play the puck 90% of the time.

Saying that a goalie's skill is only measured in how he stops the puck is like saying that a forward's skill is only measured in how he shoots the puck, or that a defenseman's skill is only measured in his ability to block shots. The goaltender, like every other position in hockey, is dynamic. Even if you were to take away the goalies' ability to play the puck, there would be other dimesions: rebound control, anticipation, communication, consistancy, stamina, and composure all complement the goalie's puck stopping ability.

Brodeur's puckhandling generates a lot of offense for the Devils, especially on the powerplay, after the other team clears it out, Brodeur frequently wings the puck, tape to tape. right back up to the redline.

When MLB outlawed the spitball, they allowed 1 pitcher per team to continue throwing it. I doubt that The NHL will have the same sense of fairness, considering that the whole purpose of the rule change is to stop the Devils.

BTW, when any league changes it's rules to end dominance by one of it's players, that's absolute proof of greatness. The NBA changed free throw rules because of Wilt Chamberlain's rebounding dominance. I can't think of any other specific instance where a major rule was re-written to stop one player. In my mind, this seals Brodeur as the greatest goaltender of all time. Did they ever change the rules to stop WAAAA? no. Did they ever change the rules to stop Dominik? no. Only Brodeur has to be stopped by the league.

do you guys not realize the state the NHL is in right now?

They have to make drastic changes to increase the flow but more importantly the entertainment value associated with the NHL and this is ceratinly a step in the right direction.

I know the few Devil fans love seeing their beloved team set up and clog center ice to the point where your lucky if you can even gain the redline and if you do you are forced to ddump it in at that point and then you still have to fight through the 5 man unit continuing to clog center ice to the point where by the time you gain the attacking zone Marty is firing the puck right back into the neutral zone to start the play within the neutral zone all over again.

Yes the Devils have had undeniable success in playing this style but it is also undenaible that this is as un-fan friendly as the sport can get and even the Devs with their 3 Cups in 9 yrs have had trouble to say the least with their popularity and for those w/the bulls%^T excuses about the Meadowlands save it b/c that is nonsense but I don't even want to get into that b/c that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Bottom line is the level of entertaining play has dwindled to a ridiculous level over the last decade and the Devils are the poster children for perfecting this passive, defense 1st 2nd and 3rd style of play which has all but negated any skating and skill that is on display on any given night in the NHL.

A goalie's job is to stop the puck.That is what measures a great goalie.Marty's puckhandling and the Devils trap have worked great to reduce the number of shots and amount of pressure he has faced butwhat has happened with goalies being able to wander all over the ice with no chance at getting hit has slowed the game and taken away bigtime from the flow amoung the skaters.

I saw a post linked to a thread that was on this very site where it was a breakdown of how many times Marty handles the puck and it was 30+ times within the 1st 2 F'in periods!!!

That is way too much for a players who is ineligible to get hit and it crushes the flow of the game.

And for those who say to just let the goalies be fair game you'd quickly change your tune when you saw a Tyson Nash of the like crank Marty behind the net leaving him with a seperated shoulder that puts him on the shelf for 3 months and we'd see what you felt about it then.

The game needs some life brought back into it that the defensive styles have choked to death and the major declining in TV and gate reciepts show this.


No one likes you.

He is a fan of a team that is employing a system that hasn't worked since Gretzky and Kurri were tearing the league apart. Most Rangers fans would like to see the team evolve and start playing the same game that the other 29 teams play. JR#9, seems to prefer that the rest of the league just play like The Rangers, which is a scary thought.

do you guys not realize the state the NHL is in right now?

They have to make drastic changes to increase the flow but more importantly the entertainment value associated with the NHL and this is ceratinly a step in the right direction.

I know the few Devil fans love seeing their beloved team set up and clog center ice to the point where your lucky if you can even gain the redline and if you do you are forced to ddump it in at that point and then you still have to fight through the 5 man unit continuing to clog center ice to the point where by the time you gain the attacking zone Marty is firing the puck right back into the neutral zone to start the play within the neutral zone all over again.

Yes the Devils have had undeniable success in playing this style but it is also undenaible that this is as un-fan friendly as the sport can get and even the Devs with their 3 Cups in 9 yrs have had trouble to say the least with their popularity and for those w/the bulls%^T excuses about the Meadowlands save it b/c that is nonsense but I don't even want to get into that b/c that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Bottom line is the level of entertaining play has dwindled to a ridiculous level over the last decade and the Devils are the poster children for perfecting this passive, defense 1st 2nd and 3rd style of play which has all but negated any skating and skill that is on display on any given night in the NHL.

A goalie's job is to stop the puck.That is what measures a great goalie.Marty's puckhandling and the Devils trap have worked great to reduce the number of shots and amount of pressure he has faced butwhat has happened with goalies being able to wander all over the ice with no chance at getting hit has slowed the game and taken away bigtime from the flow amoung the skaters.

I saw a post linked to a thread that was on this very site where it was a breakdown of how many times Marty handles the puck and it was 30+ times within the 1st 2 F'in periods!!!

That is way too much for a players who is ineligible to get hit and it crushes the flow of the game.

And for those who say to just let the goalies be fair game you'd quickly change your tune when you saw a Tyson Nash of the like crank Marty behind the net leaving him with a seperated shoulder that puts him on the shelf for 3 months and we'd see what you felt about it then.

The game needs some life brought back into it that the defensive styles have choked to death and the major declining in TV and gate reciepts show this.
I like a whole lot about this post. I know the Devils fans and players believe this is a shot at them but its not entirely - if at all true. All goalies leave the net to stop and steer pucks. ALL!! Brodeur still gets to retrieve pucks chipped out as long as he gets to them before they go below the line. He can still make many good passes to get the attack going and he will. As i said before i think a goalie should be able to stop the rim around but that is it. I fear for the league's D men its going to be a huge adjustment but it had to be done. The league is not stopping here, we may see many more changes in the next two years and they won't be all goalie related.

He is a fan of a team that is employing a system that hasn't worked since Gretzky and Kurri were tearing the league apart. Most Rangers fans would like to see the team evolve and start playing the same game that the other 29 teams play. JR#9, seems to prefer that the rest of the league just play like The Rangers, which is a scary thought.

I'm glad your so proud of the Devil system which is universally known as removing any skill and entertainment from the game in favor of sending out 5 guys with the instructions to play as cautious and conservative as they possibly can making sure to always make the "safe play".

The Devils have had their success during the last decade but they have only achieved this through taking advantage of the limitaions both the rules and size of the zones have placed on the players which all are tilted to playing the Devils style of boring hockey.

The Devils are the poster children for everything that has gone wrong with the way the game is played and EVERYONE outside of the small handful of Devils fans there are in the world recognizes this.

Even your own "fanbase" if you can call it that hasn't grown as it should if it did at all with all the success you've had over the last 10 yrs with 3 Cups b/c watching the grind it out, offense starved, no entertainment style isn't condusive to drawing the attention of the new fans who should've gotten hooked on hockey in NJ during this time period.

The excuses about the arena are just that---excuses and the fact of the matter is nobody gives a sh#t about the Devils even within NJ.Seeing 10-12k people show up for games for a recent 3 time Cup champ is nothing short of disgusting and speaks volumes.Burns has admitted this and gotten defensive about the style of play turning off potential fans and even the players such as Marty have commented how much of a absolute joke the situation is.I can't wait until the move to Newark to see this nonsense about the arena being the reason for the terrible attendance so that the truth about the situation comes out which is that while they were a very small fanbase to begin with the #'s should have drasticlly gone up due to their great success over a decade but the fact is they missed out on this opportunity due to the boring game they play.

The NHL realizes the entertainment value has gone in the shi^%er w/this style the Dev's perfected dominating play and they realize that players and even more importantly fans are sick and tired of the lack of skating, lack of skills on display and lack of quality scoring chances.

The NHL has gotten bumped from ESPN which cut 33% of the games due to this issue and next year they are faced with having SPIKE TV being the leading bidder for a national TV deal!! :joker:

But yeah Dev fans, the game is great the way it is and nothing should change just so you can see Marty break some records with his padded stats due to the style that is played infront of him that shelters him from facing the amount of quality scoring chances he would if he played for a team that actually even had a semi-aggresive style of play.

This point was never more evident then 2yrs ago when the NJD's came to MSG and the Devils had played an uncharacteristic period that saw them allow 2 maybe 3 oddman rushes against which after the last one prompted Marty Broduer to throw up his arms in disgust and protest as if to say "WTF" of course showing up teamates in doing this but everybody there were laughing thinking just how spoiled Marty was in what he has to face and thinking that if he were in Mike Richter's shoes he'd have faced that many oddman rushes by the 5 minute mark of the game!!!

Marty is one of if not the biggest whiner in the game and this last week just demonstrates that point as he has whined that they should leave him alone and focus on the CBA and how everybody is out to get him and blah, blah blah.

Get a grip Marty, the game is much bigger then you you selfish moron and it needs revamping and life brought back into it.

People making statements about how this is like not letting a QB cross the line of scrimage are hysterical.Please.

You want a good example of something similar in another sport just look at what used to happen in basketball with the institution of the 24 second clock.That was brough about because Gearge Mikan was so dominate that teams playing against the Lakers would just hold the ball and try and dribble out the clock and keep it a low scoring affair b/c they knew it was their only way to compete.Scores for some games were turning out to be 19-17 and things like that so they realized they needed to do something and introduced the 24 second clock to speed up the game and basketballs entertainment value took off as a result.

Then when teams were packing it and forcing nothing but outside jumpers the NBA made zone defense illegal to encourage driving to the hoop and slashing.

This is the SAME EXACT situation the NHL is going through and the people up top are realizing that the quality of play and entertainment have gone in the toilet as just like in the Mikan days skill has become more or less a nonfactor as determining the outcome of games which are soley determined by who plays the best system and most cautious mistake free game wins all while sacrificing the skill and skating and quality scoring chances that used to be exchanged as a result.

Just remember this---THE GAME IS BIGGER THAN BRODEUR AND THE GAME IS BIGGER THAN THE DEVILS AND THEIR STYLE OF PLAY and these changes will be for the good of the game as a whole.

The Devils are the poster children for everything that has gone wrong with the way the game is played and EVERYONE outside of the small handful of Devils fans there are in the world recognizes this. Everyone gets that you despise the Devils. Everyone gets that you hate Martin Brodeur and you feel he's overrated. Everyone gets that you hate the style of play NJ has had success with. Your rants are all the same. You've posted the above statement at least a dozen times now over in the NHL talk forum along with all the repeated talk of your correlating the teams style with its attendance. We get that you feel NJ has singlehandedly killed the sport of hockey. We've heard this all before and then some. Its amusing to me how this all comes to light the year the Devils are on course to allow the fewest goals in league history. Imagine that.

Everyone gets that you despise the Devils. Everyone gets that you hate Martin Brodeur and you feel he's overrated. Everyone gets that you hate the style of play NJ has had success with. Your rants are all the same. You've posted the above statement at least a dozen times now over in the NHL talk forum along with all the repeated talk of your correlating the teams style with its attendance. We get that you feel NJ has singlehandedly killed the sport of hockey. We've heard this all before and then some.

But yet there's still all this whining about how everybody is out to get Marty and the Devils while they turn a blind eye to the fact that their style of play has put a deathgrip on the entertainment value within the game and are making some of the most ridiulous comments on this site with comparisons about how it's like not letting the QB cross the line of scrimmage or how the game is just so great the way it currently is and nothing should be done to bring back skill/skating and most importantly entertainment.

Marty is crying his eyes out every chance he gets and whining to all the reporters as are all the Devil fans so I'd say that this is all very revelant to the events of this week.

And for those who think that Marty isn't overated and his stats aren't getting padded by playing infront of such a system all I have to say is just look at the increase in #'s of ALL goaltenders!!!

Turco put up the best numbers in 50 F'in yrs, does that mean he has had the best season of any goalie over that time period???

Guys who were backups like Roloson and Fernadez get to put up stellar goalie #'s due to the style their no talent team play infront of them.

Saying these changes prove that Marty is better than Roy as Blackjoke states is just a comedy.

I liked The Viceroy of Lost Patience's reply to what looked like a post by Steve L. over in the Devils usenet newsgroup yesterday:

From: The Viceroy of Lost Patience
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:53 AM
Newsgroups: alt.sports.hockey.nhl.nj-devils
Subject: Re: Campbell lashes out at angry goalies

Yeah, yeah, yeah...our team has ruined NHL hockey. We apologize profusely for their inflicting their
unwatchable play upon you. If that's not enough, many of them are rumored to be driving big SUVs so,
insult upon injury, when they aren't ruining hockey, they are ruining the environment as well as
terrorizing Plymouth Neon drivers.

Perhaps your TV company could do an expose.

Edgecrusher wrote:

> Because NHL excitement is at an all time low. I know everyone here are Devils fans but they are piss
> poor to watch as a neutral fan. The Oilers, Flyer, Leafs, Canucks, Wings and Avs are better to watch.
>
> Our TV company has apologised for having to show a Devils game before.
> _____
>
> Steve
>
> "I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman."
>
> A. Schwarzenegger
>
> DG wrote:
> > This is stupid. Why distort the game?
> >
> > Campbell should resign.

But yet there's still all this whining about how everybody is out to get Marty and the Devils while they turn a blind eye to the fact that their style of play has put a deathgrip on the entertainment value within the game and are making some of the most ridiulous comments on this site with comparisons about how it's like not letting the QB cross the line of scrimmage or how the game is just so great the way it currently is and nothing should be done to bring back skill/skating and most importantly entertainment.

You think that watching a bunch of 40 year old millionares skating around qualifies as entertainment? All the rule changes in the world won't make Glen Sather a competent GM. Where is this lack of skill you keep talking about? Ask the Sens if they have any shortage of skill: Hossa, Havlat, Alfrdsson, Spezza, Bonk, Redden, Chara, Rachunek and bunch more. The game of hockey today is better than ever if you'd just pull your head out of your ass and watch it. There is less hooking and obstruction, there's more competition and the teams are evenly matched. You know why Bobby Orr was breezing by everybody else on the ice? BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T SKATE. Of course, you will just whine that the skill level is low, despite HEAPS of evidence to the contrary.


Marty is crying his eyes out every chance he gets and whining to all the reporters as are all the Devil fans so I'd say that this is all very revelant to the events of this week.

The league is trying to make his skills irrelavent, he has every right to be pissed as hell.


And for those who think that Marty isn't overated and his stats aren't getting padded by playing infront of such a system all I have to say is just look at the increase in #'s of ALL goaltenders!!!

Turco put up the best numbers in 50 F'in yrs, does that mean he has had the best season of any goalie over that time period???

No, it means that he put up the best numbers in 50 years. Numbers don't translate well across 50 years in any sport.


Guys who were backups like Roloson and Fernadez get to put up stellar goalie #'s due to the style their no talent team play infront of them.

Roloson just went to the All Star game you jackass. He had a pretty damn good showing there too.

Saying these changes prove that Marty is better than Roy as Blackjoke states is just a comedy.

Ooh, Blackjoke, did you come up with that all by yourself? Tell me, where are you taking your left hand for Valentines day?

# of rules written to stop Patrik WAAH: 0
# of rules written to stop Martin Brodeur: 1

Making the nets bigger doesn't change the game, and won't change the style of game that is played. It will just increase goal scoring slightly.

The object is to increase the tempo and style of what the game has become. They have tried obstructions crackdowns and they haven't worked.

1. Increasing goal scoring IS one of the goals. Game play has been sluggish the last six years. There is a reason that the rule change is being so strongly suggested in the year when the goals/game average is at a 47 year low. Sorry, John, but if you don't think more goals is part of this, you really have your head in the sand.

2. There are other alternatives to increasing the general tempo. one is simply to have a crackdown and to stick to it. The problem has never been the crackdown, it's been the league's unwillingness to keep it going for an entire season and playoffs. Why? Because that's the hard solution. Through this rule change the league is showing, again, that it would prefer the easy fix to the best fix, just as Bettman refused to have owners getting new buildings to prepare contingency plans for wider and longer ice.

Penalty calling aside there remain other alternatives, all more effective than this because all concern the neutral zone. Consider Bob Smith's plan which gives more space. Consider making the ice bigger. Consider removing the red line.

Yes, some goalies and teams are more effected than others, the theory however is what's known as "the greater good".

And if this was the only way to achieve the greater good, your argument might be valid. The greater good is not served by enacting legislation that restricts the minority. This is why we no longer have Jim Crow.

First the skill's that small group of players has takes away from the offense another tema can generate, which is why they want to stop players from taking advantage of that skill, to increase offense. Second, why don't they allow players to make two-line passes? That rule infringe on the small group of elite passers in the nhl that could make very long, accurate passes out of their zone and launch break aways?

First: There are more efficient and thus BETTER ways to generate offense. I'm sure you don't need me to present you with the usual laundry list of ways to generate more offense, but since this rule is limited in scope it is limited in its effectiveness. Choosing to implement a rule that you know is limited in its effectiveness when you also know that there are better options is wasteful, shortsighted, and stupid.

Second: (A)Right now the shortest two-line pass one can make is 30 feet. Are you really trying to claim that it's an elite level skill to accurately pass a puck 30 feet?

(B) Since the two-line rule applies to every forward and defenseman on the ice, the percentage of players it affects is far greater than the the percentage of goalies who will be affected by this rule. It's not even close in terms of numbers of players impacted, and this is exactly why the two-line rule works. (It's also why your analogy doesn't work.) The more players you can influence with the rule, the more efficient the rule is. Because this goalie rule change affects so few, it is entirely inefficient and therefore ineffective.

The object is to increase the tempo and style of what the game has become. They have tried obstructions crackdowns and they haven't worked.

I posted this here, John, because I think Brooks was actually reading your post:

NY Post - Larry Brooks:
It doesn't matter what anyone says. This is a rule aimed straight at Martin Brodeur ....

Amazing. Not one proposal from the GMs dealing with what the trap has done to the game. Not one proposal that would restore creativity to the game. Indeed, the league's vision seems to be of a game spent entirely in the corners, of a game predicated on gaining the red line, dumping the puck and chasing after it.

I.

The fact is, that should this law be enacted, you probably will not increase the tempo of the game. This does nothing but promote the dump and chase, as more teams will be able to use it effectively. It probably will NOT encourage the odd man rush, and you'll see more teams going out to get the Turner Stevensons and Grant Marshalls of the world, players who will muck and grind and win the corners, hold the puck behind the net, and score the ugly goal. Does it hurt the trap? Yes. Does it badly damage the overall effectiveness of the trap? No. For teams like Detriot, who play a variant of the trap, but don't have a goalie who can handle the puck, it does absolutely nothing. It would change nothing at all about how half the teams in the NHL play their game, but it would force the other half to completely change their style of play? How is this fair? Why should Martin Brodeur be forced to abandon a skill that he has worked years to devolp? It makes no sense, at this stage in the game, to make this rule change.

II.

Perhaps more importantly is the fact that there are a half-dozen other alternatives which would probably be more effective at increasing scoring in the league. Getting rid of the redline probably wouldn't do too much, but it would increase the flow of the game. Getting rid of the whistles should be the main key, the end to end hockey is what makes the sport exciting. No whistles = more fans for the sport = more income = a healthier hockey economy. More goals does this too, but not if their crap goals. The league needs goals scored through SKILL. Therefore, a number of things can be done without punishing talented goaltenders. Getting rid of the redline is one. Another would be moving the goals back. A third would be bringing back the touch up offsides. A fourth would be making a minor penalty worth the full two minutes. A fifth is increasing the size of the ice, although that's not as feasible. Right there you have five options, five which would each impact upon every team equally. You wouldn't be taking all the goalies who can actually stickhandle, you know, have some SKILL, and be getting rid of that talent! It's simply rediculious, especially when you consider how it will change the longevity of defensemen.

The best analogy I've heard is one where you would prevent pitchers from fielding the ball: would it increase scoring? Yes. You would have more people bunting to get on base. Would it be exciting? No. The reason the analogy works is simple: What is the role of the pitcher? To hit or field? No. Their fielding is a way to supplement their pitching abilities - pitchers who can field well will not face as many bunts to get on base. The role of the pitcher is to play DEFENSE. The role of the goalie is to PLAY DEFENSE. Do we prevent them from poke-checking, or coming out to prevent a breakaway? Both are ways they supplement their defensive skills, as is playing the puck behind the net.