So how do we fix the offense next year?

Okay seeing as how the ducks don't play til thursday night, i'm just curious what you guys think we need to do to fix an obvious need to get some goal scoring on this team?

Let's first assume Perry gets about 4 mil and that one of Niedermayer or Schneider is gone

Anyways my idea was to make a run at Markus Naslund. A lot of people are down on him and thus I don't think he'll command a big contract. But he still scored 25 goals this year. He's also Bertuzzi's buddy and it might help to get more out of him(maybe not a lot more but up to 50 points) regardless that's just a secondary reason anyways.

He's a left winger, which we need and I don't see many better options available. This is not a good year for centers and i'd be content with Carter as long as we shored up the wings a bit.

I'm also making the assumption Selanne is going to retire but if he decides to come back the situation isn't as dire obviously.

Naslund? Why do we have to go after another washed up player while there are some interesting UFA out there?

Assuming Nieds and Selanne are gone due to retiring (and that's a ton of free money) I would take a chance on Hossa. We desperately need a boost on our offense and he would help greatly.

If we manage to take off the books Schneider also, probably I won't find many allies on this, but what about Redden? Probably he'll be too expensive (if we sign another big UFA) and has had a bad season, but I think he's still a very good d-man and he can rebound nicely on a different team.

This would be the best scenario to remain competitive next year, but I feel that the next year will be a sort of rebuilding year for Anaheim.

If you think the Ducks need a scoring LW, I'd go for Andrew Brunette. Won't score a ton, but 20 goals and 60 points would be attainable, and he's a versitile guy. Works his bag off. I don't think a big splash is even advisable at this point, unless Selanne calls it quits. That said, Ryan probably needs to be in the NHL on a regular basis next season. I'm not sure how the top-nine all irons out for him if Selanne stays.

Getzlaf
Perry
Selanne
Bertuzzi
Carter
Kunitz
Niedermayer
Pahlsson
Moen


Obviously, Ryan slides into Selanne's spot if he doesn't return, but who's spot does he grab if Selanne is back? And where does any addition, be it Hossa, Naslund, Brunette, etc. fit in? Kunitz to the checking line for Moen?

Who knows, so much can happen between now and then. I'm thinking a trade may be more likely than a free agent signing.

Sorry guys, as much as I love him, I don't see Selanne back next year, especially if... :D

Sorry guys, as much as I love him, I don't see Selanne back next year, especially if... :D

Definitely, it seems like a long-shot. So assuming he doesn't, where does a "replacement" signing fit in? Ryan needs ice.

Definitely, it seems like a long-shot. So assuming he doesn't, where does a "replacement" signing fit in? Ryan needs ice.

It's not like we'll have a stacked top 6 next year.
We miss a second line center and a first line LW; I like Kunitz but 20 goals is his ceiling and we need more from the first two lines.

If Selanne and Nieds retire next season, with a weaker defense our offense must step up.

Would the lines look like this if Teemu leaves?

Bert, Getz, Perry
Kunitz, Carter,
Moen, Pahlsson, Neids
May, Marchant, Parros

Who is missing, Ryan, Sutherby?

If that is our line up, ouch..

With Kunitz, Bertuzzi, Perry and Ryan here next season we are already stacked at the top 6 wing positions. Could even be five if Selanne is still around...

We don't need a winger, we need a center. We have a hole to fill on the second line, cuz there is no chance Weight is here next season. Although Carter could blossom into a second line center next year, that's the hole to fill if there is any.

Although Carter could blossom into a second line center next year, that's the hole to fill if there is any.

Yeah, for a non playoff team.

Marchant??? How many years for his damn contract to expire???

It's not like we'll have a stacked top 6 next year.
We miss a second line center and a first line LW; I like Kunitz but 20 goals is his ceiling and we need more from the first two lines.

If Selanne and Nieds retire next season, with a weaker defense our offense must step up.

I listed the top nine above without Ryan. Who gets moved if you bring in a Hossa-type? I agree that they'll need more offense next season, but I don't see a big-splash free agent without a trade senario. It's not a "stacked" top nine, but aside from Bertuzzi who I would have to guess would be close to untradeable, who gets pushed out?

Next year...Then we get Rob Nieds and Marchant off the books.

We need more fighters. That's the key.

I think one of Beauchemin or Schneider will be traded for a center....for whom, I dont know.

With Kunitz, Bertuzzi, Perry and Ryan here next season we are already stacked at the top 6 wing positions. Could even be five if Selanne is still around...

We don't need a winger, we need a center. We have a hole to fill on the second line, cuz there is no chance Weight is here next season. Although Carter could blossom into a second line center next year, that's the hole to fill if there is any.
When 3 of your top 4 wingers can reasonably be expected to NOT reach 20 goals that's pretty much the opposite of stacked.

The best case scenario for the Ducks offense next season is Selanne and Nieds returning and nothing else changes. Failing that, I'd prefer to get a legit second-line center any way we can - UFA or trade, what have you.

If we lose Nieds I'd prefer to keep Schneider, though.

Just to help people, here's the money situation for next season
pronger | 6.25
schneider | 5.625
beauchemin | 1.65
OD | 1.25
nieds | 6.75
huskins | 0.625
giguere | 6
getzlaf | 5.325
bertuzzi | 4
kunitz | 3.725
marchant | 2.5175
nieds | 2
pahlsson | 1.4
moen | 0.9125
may | 0.6
parros | 0.55
ryan | 1.922
total | 51.102
Sadly, Ryan's being scratched in 2 games in March means we don't get any of his bonuses voided for next year, so he's the full 1.922.

Assuming Ryan is ready to take a 2nd line spot, this roster is missing: Perry, a 2nd liner (C or wing if Ryan/Bert can play C), a 13th forward, a roster defenseman, a 7th defenseman, and a backup goalie (probably Hiller).

Depending on what you think next year's budget will be, it's going to be a real tight fit.


Let's pretend Nieds is gone (likely) and make some estimates. Perry at 4.5, Hiller at 1 million, the 2 spares will cost ~1 million total. That's 50.1 million right there.

Now it gets fun. We need to fit in a 2nd liner and a roster defenseman with 6 million max (depending on what you think the budget will be).

I'm guessing the budget will be ~10% below the cap (that's what it was supposed to be last year). So that means there's 1 million dollars to fill in a roster spot that should cost ~3 million and another spot that should cost anywhere from 1-3 million (depending on if you think we need a #5/6 or a #4 if you think Beauchemin or Schneider should be on the bottom pairing).

Fighter: not a chance Hossa will fit unless major salary is moved beforehand.

My prediction? One of our RFAs gets the 2nd line spot (Carter, Ebbett, Platt) for ~ 1 million, and we get a Hnidy-type guy for the bottom pairing (~900k). Which puts us 900k over what I think the budget will be, but maybe that's OK with the Samuelis. And we'll be borderline to even make the playoffs. Even then we may have to move somebody.

Fighter: not a chance Hossa will fit unless major salary is moved beforehand.


Nice resume, I thought our situation was better.

I don't see Scotty coming back either.
I agree we need at least another move, Kunitz could be a valuable trade asset knowing that Ryan will step up.

I hope Marchant will hang 'em up, it's not I don't like him but his salary is ridiculous.

pahlsson 1.4

ryan 1.922

Something wrong with this, there is no way Ryan is worth that money yet. He's not even worth Huskins money yet.

pahlsson 1.4

ryan 1.922

Something wrong with this, there is no way Ryan is worth that money yet. He's not even worth Huskins money yet.

Thats the way the CBA is structured. When you're the #2 overall pick, that's what you're worth.

Performance bonuses. Ryan only is guaranteed to earn 850k. In reality, he should be earning very close to that as he's not good enough to earn many, if any, bonuses. But in the meantime, he counts as the full 1.9 on the cap (although we could exceed the cap on the assumption that he won't earn the bonuses).

I guess I should have added that to my estimates, since Ryan's actual salary is very likely ~1.1 million less than it appears. So in terms of a budget, you could "pretend" he only makes 900k.

Just to help people, here's the money situation for next season
pronger | 6.25
schneider | 5.625
beauchemin | 1.65
OD | 1.25
nieds | 6.75
huskins | 0.625
giguere | 6
getzlaf | 5.325
bertuzzi | 4
kunitz | 3.725
marchant | 2.5175
nieds | 2
pahlsson | 1.4
moen | 0.9125
may | 0.6
parros | 0.55
ryan | 1.922
total | 51.102
Sadly, Ryan's being scratched in 2 games in March means we don't get any of his bonuses voided for next year, so he's the full 1.922.

Assuming Ryan is ready to take a 2nd line spot, this roster is missing: Perry, a 2nd liner (C or wing if Ryan/Bert can play C), a 13th forward, a roster defenseman, a 7th defenseman, and a backup goalie (probably Hiller).

Depending on what you think next year's budget will be, it's going to be a real tight fit.


Let's pretend Nieds is gone (likely) and make some estimates. Perry at 4.5, Hiller at 1 million, the 2 spares will cost ~1 million total. That's 50.1 million right there.

Now it gets fun. We need to fit in a 2nd liner and a roster defenseman with 6 million max (depending on what you think the budget will be).

I'm guessing the budget will be ~10% below the cap (that's what it was supposed to be last year). So that means there's 1 million dollars to fill in a roster spot that should cost ~3 million and another spot that should cost anywhere from 1-3 million (depending on if you think we need a #5/6 or a #4 if you think Beauchemin or Schneider should be on the bottom pairing).

Fighter: not a chance Hossa will fit unless major salary is moved beforehand.

My prediction? One of our RFAs gets the 2nd line spot (Carter, Ebbett, Platt) for ~ 1 million, and we get a Hnidy-type guy for the bottom pairing (~900k). Which puts us 900k over what I think the budget will be, but maybe that's OK with the Samuelis. And we'll be borderline to even make the playoffs. Even then we may have to move somebody.

I think the owners will be much more willing to go farther over budget if it means making the playoffs. The playoffs are when they make their money. A lot of that could hedge on how far the team goes in this year's playoffs.

What I would do is trade Schneider and our 42nd pick for a center.....maybe a kid like R.J. Umberger in Philly though I dont know if the money works out. Give Salcido a role or pick up a defenseman with the money saved from Schneider, like Mike Rozsival or Bryce Salvador. I dont know how much those guys will be asking for though.

Either way, if we want our offense to improve I think we have to trade Schneider, which is going to hurt our defense but I think thats easier plugged than the 2nd line center. Hell, maybe Ryan Carter steps up and plays that next year, though I think he would be just as useful on the wing retrieving dump ins and the like. Whatevs, just throwing ideas out there.

My prediction? One of our RFAs gets the 2nd line spot (Carter, Ebbett, Platt) for ~ 1 million, and we get a Hnidy-type guy for the bottom pairing (~900k). Which puts us 900k over what I think the budget will be, but maybe that's OK with the Samuelis. And we'll be borderline to even make the playoffs. Even then we may have to move somebody.

Here's the thing though. Even ignoring money for a moment. Lets assume Selanne and Niedermayer are both gone and Perry and Carter are resigned. As I listed before, here are the "top nine" level forwards...

Bertuzzi-Getzlaf-Perry
Kunitz-Carter-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer

Who's getting knocked out? Obviously, the top three won't/can't be moved. Carter is a player who could develop in to a very solid NHLer, but he needs minutes. Ryan? I can't see him not earning the job unless he goes on a chicken-wing/donut diet. Kunitz is tradeable, but given the intangibles that it appears he brings, is that going to make the organization any better? Neither Pahlsson or Rob N are going anywhere. What more do you want from a third-line guy making .9M than what Moen delivers?

When you then look at the dollars involved, I don't know that the team has any option but to give Carter (or ebbett, or Platt, or 12th overall draft pick) the "open" center position. The only other thing I could envision is upgrading Kunitz through a trade involving one of the defensemen, and sliding Kunitz to the Pahlsson unit, making Moen a utility slug.

If Selanne and Niedermayer both commit to retirement, I don't think there's much choice other than looking at it as a "rebuilding/reloading" year. I don't think that necessarily means dropping out of the playoffs. Best case senario under those circumstances, Getzlaf is a 30-60 guy, Perry 40-40, Bert isn't useless and is 15+, Ryan breaks out with 20+, Kunitz chimes in with 20, and Carter establishes himself as a decent two-way center. The D remains decent, Pronger is still a beast, and goaltending is amongst the best in the league.

The team isn't looking at the doorway wondering if Selanne and Niedermayer are coming back, they commit to the team in the room and to Getzlaf and Pronger as their leaders, and they're battling for the division championship again.

The next season some numbers come off the books, and you can start to again supplement the core.

Best case senario.

Either way, if we want our offense to improve I think we have to trade Schneider, which is going to hurt our defense but I think thats easier plugged than the 2nd line center.

I'd be concerned with what our offense and transition system would look like with neither Niedermayer or Schnieder on the blue-line.

I'd be concerned with what our offense and transition system would look like with neither Niedermayer or Schnieder on the blue-line.

Schneider doesnt make THAT many great outlet passes. He has a great shot and jumps in the play well, but I think Huskins can fill that role (without the shot) if he is given the green light. Obviously Schneider would have to be replaced, but his salary and our lack of forwards leads me to believe he will at least be shopped around. Either way we arent a cup contender next year. So many holes and so little talent.

Schneider doesnt make THAT many great outlet passes. He has a great shot and jumps in the play well, but I think Huskins can fill that role (without the shot) if he is given the green light. Obviously Schneider would have to be replaced, but his salary and our lack of forwards leads me to believe he will at least be shopped around. Either way we arent a cup contender next year. So many holes and so little talent.

It's not really so much the long outlet passes that I worry about missing. It's his ability to use his feet and make a smart-short tape-to-tape pass, and doing it quickly while in transition. Huskins might be able to do it, but I think he's got a lower ceiling as far as being poised and intelligent with the puck goes. Love the guy, don't get me wrong.

Detroit and Dallas have remained competitive for the Cup through a few of these reloading periods. Overall talent is a question mark, but like I said, decent D and great goaltending along with a committment to a system will take you a long way in this league. Scoring is absolutely the issue, but I don't think overall team talent is that big a problem.

I think the owners will be much more willing to go farther over budget if it means making the playoffs. The playoffs are when they make their money. A lot of that could hedge on how far the team goes in this year's playoffs.

What I would do is trade Schneider and our 42nd pick for a center.....maybe a kid like R.J. Umberger in Philly though I dont know if the money works out. Give Salcido a role or pick up a defenseman with the money saved from Schneider, like Mike Rozsival or Bryce Salvador. I dont know how much those guys will be asking for though.

Either way, if we want our offense to improve I think we have to trade Schneider, which is going to hurt our defense but I think thats easier plugged than the 2nd line center. Hell, maybe Ryan Carter steps up and plays that next year, though I think he would be just as useful on the wing retrieving dump ins and the like. Whatevs, just throwing ideas out there.

Yeah a lengthy playoff run would help a lot. Both in terms of the team making money, and in terms of making the owners more likely to deficit spend.

I'm pretty sure Philly is a no go. They've been talking about losing Carter because they can't afford him. While they get Primeau's 3 mill off the books, it's still probably a pretty tight fit for them. I'm not sure they can fit Schneider's 5.6 in. Although salary aside, Umberger's a decent choice.

But our blueline without Schneider or Niedermayer is pretty scary. Unless we're sure we can find a guy who can eat minutes (and Beauchemin is looking iffy), I'd be hesitant to move Schneider.

Here's the thing though. Even ignoring money for a moment. Lets assume Selanne and Niedermayer are both gone and Perry and Carter are resigned. As I listed before, here are the "top nine" level forwards...

Bertuzzi-Getzlaf-Perry
Kunitz-Carter-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer

Who's getting knocked out? Obviously, the top three won't/can't be moved. Carter is a player who could develop in to a very solid NHLer, but he needs minutes. Ryan? I can't see him not earning the job unless he goes on a chicken-wing/donut diet. Kunitz is tradeable, but given the intangibles that it appears he brings, is that going to make the organization any better? Neither Pahlsson or Rob N are going anywhere. What more do you want from a third-line guy making .9M than what Moen delivers?

When you then look at the dollars involved, I don't know that the team has any option but to give Carter (or ebbett, or Platt, or 12th overall draft pick) the "open" center position. The only other thing I could envision is upgrading Kunitz through a trade involving one of the defensemen, and sliding Kunitz to the Pahlsson unit, making Moen a utility slug.

If Selanne and Niedermayer both commit to retirement, I don't think there's much choice other than looking at it as a "rebuilding/reloading" year. I don't think that necessarily means dropping out of the playoffs. Best case senario under those circumstances, Getzlaf is a 30-60 guy, Perry 40-40, Bert isn't useless and is 15+, Ryan breaks out with 20+, Kunitz chimes in with 20, and Carter establishes himself as a decent two-way center. The D remains decent, Pronger is still a beast, and goaltending is amongst the best in the league.

The team isn't looking at the doorway wondering if Selanne and Niedermayer are coming back, they commit to the team in the room and to Getzlaf and Pronger as their leaders, and they're battling for the division championship again.

The next season some numbers come off the books, and you can start to again supplement the core.

Best case senario.
I'm really wary of having Carter AND Ryan in the 2nd line. Depending on semi-rookies for 2/3 of our 2nd line seems like damning ourselves to failure. We really need someone who's capable of driving a 2nd line so that one of Carter or Ryan can tag along. Like this year, I'm perfectly comfortable with having crappy guys like Weight or Carter on the 2nd line because Selanne could drive the line (if Getz and Perry were both playing to drive the 1st line).

I'm kind of expecting Carter to be moved to the 3rd/4th line. He could replace Marchant or Niedermayer and save us money there. Or he could replace Moen, just to free up a roster spot. He has decent offensive skills, but he's only actually produced for like a whopping total of 6 games.

We might be breaking Miller in too, probably on the 3rd or 4th line.

My ideal lineup would be along these lines:
Kunitz-Getzlaf-Perry
Bertuzzi?(UFA or Carter)-?(UFA or Carter)-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer? (Miller/Carter)
May? (Miller)-Marchant? (Sutherby/Wirtanen)-Parros

Pronger-OD
Schneider-Beauchemin/Huskins
UFA(Salcido)-Huskins/Beauchemin

I'd love to ditch 2 of Marchant, Niedermayer, and Bertuzzi, because I doubt we could move all 3. May may (heh) also be moved to 13th forward status, just so we have a spot to break a young guy in (although the young guy would probably cost more). The savings could be used to get a UFA center or wing. The guys in parentheses are the guys we already have who could slot into that spot.

Yeah I'm too lazy to come up with UFA/trade acquisition names. I'm just pointing out where I want the holes to be.

First off I just want to point out how crucial it's been to this team that they have Todd Marchant. With the almost constant injuries to at least one center all year he has been invaluable. Yes he makes a lot but he does so much for this team. That and he has a no-trade clause. So he isn't going anywhere.

If Scotty retires, Schneider stays. If Scotty stays, Schneids is traded. Simple as that. We can't have them both next year obviously but we can't lose both either. Plus you don't get a lot for a salary dump that happens to be 38 years old. If Schneider is traded it's probably for draft picks and spare parts.

Carter needs to prove he can handle the load and what better time to do it than right now in the playoffs. He has the proper work ethic, face-off ability and defensive-awareness. But he has to prove he can be a threat offensively each and every shift. If not, Burkie will than have to find one on the open market and my money says he goes for Morrison. He's familiar with him and he's had a couple of off years so he may not garner a huge contract.

But the biggest difference this year to last was the Power Play. We either need to bring in someone to improve the PP or simply just make it better. I think Bobby Ryan could really bloom next year and Getzy and Perry will only get better. Keeping Schneider or Scotty is crucial to that.

I'm really wary of having Carter AND Ryan in the 2nd line. Depending on semi-rookies for 2/3 of our 2nd line seems like damning ourselves to failure. We really need someone who's capable of driving a 2nd line so that one of Carter or Ryan can tag along. Like this year, I'm perfectly comfortable with having crappy guys like Weight or Carter on the 2nd line because Selanne could drive the line (if Getz and Perry were both playing to drive the 1st line).

I'm kind of expecting Carter to be moved to the 3rd/4th line. He could replace Marchant or Niedermayer and save us money there. Or he could replace Moen, just to free up a roster spot. He has decent offensive skills, but he's only actually produced for like a whopping total of 6 games.

We might be breaking Miller in too, probably on the 3rd or 4th line.

My ideal lineup would be along these lines:
Kunitz-Getzlaf-Perry
Bertuzzi?(UFA or Carter)-?(UFA or Carter)-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer? (Miller/Carter)
May? (Miller)-Marchant? (Sutherby/Wirtanen)-Parros

Pronger-OD
Schneider-Beauchemin/Huskins
UFA(Salcido)-Huskins/Beauchemin

I'd love to ditch 2 of Marchant, Niedermayer, and Bertuzzi, because I doubt we could move all 3. May may (heh) also be moved to 13th forward status, just so we have a spot to break a young guy in (although the young guy would probably cost more). The savings could be used to get a UFA center or wing. The guys in parentheses are the guys we already have who could slot into that spot.

Yeah I'm too lazy to come up with UFA/trade acquisition names. I'm just pointing out where I want the holes to be.


I didn't really mean to present them as lines...just a different layout than listing the forwards.

Here's the thing though. Even ignoring money for a moment. Lets assume Selanne and Niedermayer are both gone and Perry and Carter are resigned. As I listed before, here are the "top nine" level forwards...

Bertuzzi-Getzlaf-Perry
Kunitz-Carter-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer

Who's getting knocked out? Obviously, the top three won't/can't be moved. Carter is a player who could develop in to a very solid NHLer, but he needs minutes. Ryan? I can't see him not earning the job unless he goes on a chicken-wing/donut diet. Kunitz is tradeable, but given the intangibles that it appears he brings, is that going to make the organization any better? Neither Pahlsson or Rob N are going anywhere. What more do you want from a third-line guy making .9M than what Moen delivers?

When you then look at the dollars involved, I don't know that the team has any option but to give Carter (or ebbett, or Platt, or 12th overall draft pick) the "open" center position. The only other thing I could envision is upgrading Kunitz through a trade involving one of the defensemen, and sliding Kunitz to the Pahlsson unit, making Moen a utility slug.

If Selanne and Niedermayer both commit to retirement, I don't think there's much choice other than looking at it as a "rebuilding/reloading" year. I don't think that necessarily means dropping out of the playoffs. Best case senario under those circumstances, Getzlaf is a 30-60 guy, Perry 40-40, Bert isn't useless and is 15+, Ryan breaks out with 20+, Kunitz chimes in with 20, and Carter establishes himself as a decent two-way center. The D remains decent, Pronger is still a beast, and goaltending is amongst the best in the league.

The team isn't looking at the doorway wondering if Selanne and Niedermayer are coming back, they commit to the team in the room and to Getzlaf and Pronger as their leaders, and they're battling for the division championship again.

The next season some numbers come off the books, and you can start to again supplement the core.

Best case senario.
I wouldn't mind seeing Moen go, then insert Kunitz on that 3rd line. He'd bring the same forechecking and physical toughness and add more offensive ability.

Also one thing that hasn't been mentioned about Selanne is that 600 goals is in reach for him if he plays next year. Players may say it won't matter but I think joining Kurri in the 600 club is something he wouldn't mind doing and it looks like he still thoroughly enjoys playing...I'm not getting my hopes it but let's not shut the door there either.

But I am agreement with others, next year is not going to be another title run unless Selanne and Nieds return.

I know its stupid but it will kind of be nice to not be expected to be good....kind of like '06 when they came out of nowhere. Its an irrational thought but its comforting nonetheless.

Well im pretty sure teemu and scotty are gone next year, but didnt burke say unless the pick for the draft was top 7 he wouldnt want it. maybe he could use that with a combination of schnider or someone like him to bring in a hossa type player... we should have a pretty nice chunk off the cap without scotty and schnider. I would love to see Kovalchuk play for the ducks!

I think Burke is going to bring in Naslund one a 1-year deal, maybe for a low salary. He's struggled in AV's defensive system and needs to prove he can still play, which I think he can. There's also the Burke connection. If there's still money and/or he'll take a paycut, I could also see them bring in Morrison and reunite that line altogether. Mo would probably sign for only a year as well. Ryan gets to fine-tune his game completely in the A, and we have two solid scoring lines. If the money's right, works for me.

I think Burke is going to bring in Naslund one a 1-year deal, maybe for a low salary. He's struggled in AV's defensive system and needs to prove he can still play, which I think he can. There's also the Burke connection. If there's still money and/or he'll take a paycut, I could also see them bring in Morrison and reunite that line altogether. Mo would probably sign for only a year as well. Ryan gets to fine-tune his game completely in the A, and we have two solid scoring lines. If the money's right, works for me.

Morrison will be coming off of a torn ACL...thats quite a risk. Also, he and Naslund (and Bert for that matter) are not exactly known for their hearty play, nor their playoff prowess. Can they even play in Carlyle's forecheck/checking heavy system? I have my doubts.

I would trade Schnieder. Maybe try and get a pick and a prospect. See if any desperate team is willing to offer a late 1st rounder. That frees up room to sign Perry and maybe a 2nd line center. That is assuming Nieds retires. Or we can...TANK 4 TAVARES!

Morrison will be coming off of a torn ACL...thats quite a risk. Also, he and Naslund (and Bert for that matter) are not exactly known for their hearty play, nor their playoff prowess. Can they even play in Carlyle's forecheck/checking heavy system? I have my doubts.

Coming off torn ACL=less money. Risky, but I think that's more or less Burke's middle name. And, while they aren't known for playoff prowess or heart, Burke liked 'em all at one point, and they're better than, well, Bobby Ryan Carter.

Coming off torn ACL=less money. Risky, but I think that's more or less Burke's middle name. And, while they aren't known for playoff prowess or heart, Burke liked 'em all at one point, and they're better than, well, Bobby Ryan Carter.

He liked them all at one point, and Vancouver never went anywhere. If he plays for 1-2 million Id be ok with the risk. Naslund is done as an impact player in my opinion and I think he is going to ask for 4 million a year. He isnt worth that.

Naslund & Morrison?? Is this some kind of sick joke?

Hell no to those two, I rather see Carter getting the 2nd line center spot.

Naslund & Morrison?? Is this some kind of sick joke?

Hell no to those two, I rather see Carter getting the 2nd line center spot.

I'm not even sure what to say to that. I mean, at all. All I can say is, wow, I guess.

I think Burke is going to bring in Naslund one a 1-year deal, maybe for a low salary. He's struggled in AV's defensive system and needs to prove he can still play, which I think he can. There's also the Burke connection. If there's still money and/or he'll take a paycut, I could also see them bring in Morrison and reunite that line altogether. Mo would probably sign for only a year as well. Ryan gets to fine-tune his game completely in the A, and we have two solid scoring lines. If the money's right, works for me.

I can see it. It's unlikely either will be back in a Canucks' uniform next season so it wouldn't surprise me if Burke brought both them in on one year deals. Don't quote me on this, but Morrison might be eligible for a bonus laden contract seeing as he missed a large amount of time this season(needs to have missed at least 100 days).

Burke will sign Morrison and Naslund and reunite the WCE!




**** he better not!!! :rant:

Hey, its boogers kid, hahaheha

Not sure if I pronounced it right.

I can see it. It's unlikely either will be back in a Canucks' uniform next season so it wouldn't surprise me if Burke brought both them in on one year deals. Don't quote me on this, but Morrison might be eligible for a bonus laden contract seeing as he missed a large amount of time this season(needs to have missed at least 100 days).

Yeah, that's even better for Anaheim if Morrison is eligible for bonuses. The biggest reason I can see it happen is not only Anaheim's likely want of a second line to compete next year, but like you said, both likely won't be back in Vancouver and need a place to prove themselves. With Anaheim's cap situation and roster space they seem like a perfect fit in terms of signing a guy to a 1-year deal, and being that Burke is the GM and has already brought in a couple of his boys(Bert and May), it seems like it would be a fit.

I'm not even sure what to say to that. I mean, at all. All I can say is, wow, I guess.
You would rather have no-hope has-beens on our 2nd line? Bertuzzi hasn't been enough of a lesson for you?

Hey, its boogers kid, hahaheha

Not sure if I pronounced it right.
It's like chinese, turn one he into a ha, and instead of ordering dumplings you're desiring deep buttsex.

You would rather have no-hope has-beens on our 2nd line? Bertuzzi hasn't been enough of a lesson for you?

Selanne was considered a no-hope has-been as well. That one worked out nicely. Also, even if Naslund isn't the same player he was and it wasn't just AV's system, and even if Morrison is also a shadow of himself, it's still better than Bobby Ryan Carter for next season unless both make some pretty significant strides.

Selanne was considered a no-hope has-been as well. That one worked out nicely. Also, even if Naslund isn't the same player he was and it wasn't just AV's system, and even if Morrison is also a shadow of himself, it's still better than Bobby Ryan Carter for next season unless both make some pretty significant strides.

It heavily depends on the deal. The thing about them is if they are willing to buy into the forecheck heavy system. Bert does hit guys and he looks like he generally gives effort most of the time on the forecheck but he still isnt where we'd like him to be. The atmosphere in the locker room and on the ice needs be cohesive.....if the entire 2nd line is made up of floaters who lack heart the whole team could be divided.

Selanne was considered a no-hope has-been as well. That one worked out nicely. Also, even if Naslund isn't the same player he was and it wasn't just AV's system, and even if Morrison is also a shadow of himself, it's still better than Bobby Ryan Carter for next season unless both make some pretty significant strides.
Naslund was never in Selanne's class as a player. He was a guy who struggled fulfilling expectations and found a perfect niche for a few years. There's no magic button keeping him from returning to his former glory.

He's just done, like Weight and Bertuzzi. Morrison is a Andy Mac clone who struck oil, finding chemistry with players who were producing like crazy. He's not a useful player on his own.

I don't want the team to become the Canucks 2.0

The WCE didn't even work the last year it was together. Naslund doesn't really play a style that fits with the team, and his stats have decreased every year since 03. Including goals, which is what we need the most. Of course the good news is the rate of increasing suckage has slowed, but that may be because it's hard to continue to get worse. Who knows how much money he'd want too, and it's not like he's shown he can perform over a contract. And he's kind of a floater. Pass on Naslund.

Morrison I'm indifferent on, mainly because there's not much better out there in UFA. He's not a goalscorer either, and he's even less offensive than Naslund, but at least he doesn't seem to be in as bad of a decline. The problem is he's yet another complementary player and that's pretty much all we have. But at least he should be pretty cheap, which is good since we probably can't afford much.

I'm not even sure what to say to that. I mean, at all. All I can say is, wow, I guess.

Right back at ya, wow, just wow.

You want 2 over-the-hill has-been slackers who most likely want relatively big money (atleast they won't come cheap)?

Selanne was brought back only because he was a fan favorite and dirt cheap.

If Naslund and Morrison agree to 1y 1M+bonus deals like Selanne, then I could live with signing them.

Neither is going to sign for less than 3M, that's for sure.

Morrison will. No team is going to give him 3 million coming off of ACL surgery as well as a lost season.

Right back at ya, wow, just wow.

You want 2 over-the-hill has-been slackers who most likely want relatively big money (atleast they won't come cheap)?

Selanne was brought back only because he was a fan favorite and dirt cheap.

If Naslund and Morrison agree to 1y 1M+bonus deals like Selanne, then I could live with signing them.

Neither is going to sign for less than 3M, that's for sure.

Both have a lot to prove, mainly that they can still score. Unless some team throws big money at them, I could see them take a 1-year, low salary deal. I've never said we should throw big money at these guys, just that if the price is right, why not?

Also, even if they are has-beens, they're still pretty decent hockey players. Naslund's still capable of 25 goals and 50 points, and Mo is too. And that's while playing in Vancouver, a very defensive team.

obo, what are you talking about the WCE not even working during their last year together? Mo was unspectacular, but Bertuzzi, a season removed from the Moore incident, scored 25 goals and 70 points and Naslund scored 32 goals and 79 points. How didn't those two do well?

Naslund may not be a total fit in this system, but who knows, maybe he can play that style. Maybe he can give us a great second line option. Like I said, if the price is right, it's a good fit. Even if he's a bad fit it'll still be better than Ryan Carter and/or Bobby Ryan. I highly doubt team chemistry would be rankled, as Naslund likely has some leadership abilities, and he seems far from the locker room cancer type.

70 points and 79 points. Also -17 and -19. Also, a huge amount of those points were on the PP. Which isn't bad in of itself, but on a team that a) doesn't have many PP opportunities (12th) and b) will have Getzlaf and Perry ahead of them taking most of the PP time, I want guys who can contribute ES for the 2nd line.

Also, the team just can't add players of Naslund's style anymore. Not unless it rebuilds a new line from scratch. Just like how Andy McDonald didn't work, we're stuck with slow forecheckers until Burke gets 2 fast skill guys at once. Which I guess Morrison and Naslund would be, but where's the roster space going to come from?

Naslund was never in Selanne's class as a player. He was a guy who struggled fulfilling expectations and found a perfect niche for a few years. There's no magic button keeping him from returning to his former glory.

He's just done, like Weight and Bertuzzi. Morrison is a Andy Mac clone who struck oil, finding chemistry with players who were producing like crazy. He's not a useful player on his own.

That's not always a bad thing. Selanne wouldn't have done as good without Andy Mac either, although he does better than Andy does on his own.

70 points and 79 points. Also -17 and -19. Also, a huge amount of those points were on the PP. Which isn't bad in of itself, but on a team that a) doesn't have many PP opportunities (12th) and b) will have Getzlaf and Perry ahead of them taking most of the PP time, I want guys who can contribute ES for the 2nd line.

Also, the team just can't add players of Naslund's style anymore. Not unless it rebuilds a new line from scratch. Just like how Andy McDonald didn't work, we're stuck with slow forecheckers until Burke gets 2 fast skill guys at once. Which I guess Morrison and Naslund would be, but where's the roster space going to come from?

Naslund still can contribute, book it. He just needs the right scenario, and I think this could be it. Naslund's especially suffered in Vancouver because there are many times where he's carrying a line on his own. I think the Sedins play a lot with other guys, so it's just him on the second line. If he were here with this team, I think he could do a little damage. But, we'll see.

You would rather have no-hope has-beens on our 2nd line? Bertuzzi hasn't been enough of a lesson for you?
Naslund can atleast score goals but I see your point. If you are looking to make another deep playoff run next year you can't go into the year with Carter and Ryan locked into the top six...if it looks like we will be in a semi rebuild phase..I wouldn't oppose all that much.

Naslund can atleast score goals but I see your point. If you are looking to make another deep playoff run next year you can't go into the year with Carter and Ryan locked into the top six...if it looks like we will be in a semi rebuild phase..I wouldn't oppose all that much.
I think Naslund could realistically pot 25 goals while being a nonfactor both on the fore- and backcheck. So, Lupul in other words. Not a helpful player.

I think Naslund could realistically pot 25 goals while being a nonfactor both on the fore- and backcheck. So, Lupul in other words. Not a helpful player.

This team's problem is it has too many helpful players and not enough Lupuls. You can probably name all the players that are ideal for the Ducks and that are available on one hand. And even for that select few I don't see us getting them. Semi-rebuild doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, but if Nieds is back for another season and we're still paying Bertuzzi and co, I figure why not sign a couple guys to 1-year bids and give er one last go.

If this team does plan on making a deep run next season and such, the choice is either gonna be between picking up a floater or two, or having the worst offense of any playoff team again. Floaters might not be ideal here, but we're gonna need 'em.

This team's problem is it has too many helpful players and not enough Lupuls. You can probably name all the players that are ideal for the Ducks and that are available on one hand. And even for that select few I don't see us getting them. Semi-rebuild doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, but if Nieds is back for another season and we're still paying Bertuzzi and co, I figure why not sign a couple guys to 1-year bids and give er one last go.

If this team does plan on making a deep run next season and such, the choice is either gonna be between picking up a floater or two, or having the worst offense of any playoff team again. Floaters might not be ideal here, but we're gonna need 'em.
Well I'll be damned. Now I've seen it all.

Well I'll be damned. Now I've seen it all.

Is it not true? I mean, I love having guys like Brian Sutherby around, but not at the expense of having two fourth lines and no second. This team can be as great defensively as it wants, but no team has ever won anything without some form of secondary scoring, especially since our primary scoring isn't thaat dominant.

Not enough Lupuls??

McLovin, your problem is that you see it in black & white. It's either Lupul or Sutherby.

OTher is lazy & floating sniper and the other is gritty, hardworking checker.

There are players between those types you know.

This team is built on toughness, gritty play and bluecollar work ethic. If you don't have those qualities in you, you better contribute offensively a lot. Like Selanne, if he wasn't scoring goals and being fan favorite, he wouldn't play here.

Anyway, we can't afford Morrison & Naslund next year unless they sign dirt cheap. Which they wont, total price tag for them would most likely be over 6M.

Not enough Lupuls??

McLovin, your problem is that you see it in black & white. It's either Lupul or Sutherby.

OTher is lazy & floating sniper and the other is gritty, hardworking checker.

There are players between those types you know.

This team is built on toughness, gritty play and bluecollar work ethic. If you don't have those qualities in you, you better contribute offensively a lot. Like Selanne, if he wasn't scoring goals and being fan favorite, he wouldn't play here.

Anyway, we can't afford Morrison & Naslund next year unless they sign dirt cheap. Which they wont, total price tag for them would most likely be over 6M.

I know, it's just that we won't get them. I only want Naslund, and maybe Morrison, if they take sweetheart 1-year deals anyway. That's what I'd try and pursure, 1 year stop gaps until the cap pressure is off. I just doubt we can get those in-between types for next season given our current cap status and lack of assets to spare. Plus, a lot of these types of deals do work, and the ones that don't work out usually don't affect anything.

So, again, if the money's right, I think it'd be a great idea. If not, oh well.

I'm really wary of having Carter AND Ryan in the 2nd line. Depending on semi-rookies for 2/3 of our 2nd line seems like damning ourselves to failure. We really need someone who's capable of driving a 2nd line so that one of Carter or Ryan can tag along. Like this year, I'm perfectly comfortable with having crappy guys like Weight or Carter on the 2nd line because Selanne could drive the line (if Getz and Perry were both playing to drive the 1st line).

I'm kind of expecting Carter to be moved to the 3rd/4th line. He could replace Marchant or Niedermayer and save us money there. Or he could replace Moen, just to free up a roster spot. He has decent offensive skills, but he's only actually produced for like a whopping total of 6 games.

We might be breaking Miller in too, probably on the 3rd or 4th line.

My ideal lineup would be along these lines:
Kunitz-Getzlaf-Perry
Bertuzzi?(UFA or Carter)-?(UFA or Carter)-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer? (Miller/Carter)
May? (Miller)-Marchant? (Sutherby/Wirtanen)-Parros

Pronger-OD
Schneider-Beauchemin/Huskins
UFA(Salcido)-Huskins/Beauchemin

I'd love to ditch 2 of Marchant, Niedermayer, and Bertuzzi, because I doubt we could move all 3. May may (heh) also be moved to 13th forward status, just so we have a spot to break a young guy in (although the young guy would probably cost more). The savings could be used to get a UFA center or wing. The guys in parentheses are the guys we already have who could slot into that spot.

Yeah I'm too lazy to come up with UFA/trade acquisition names. I'm just pointing out where I want the holes to be.

What about the PPG line? Pretty much rookies last year.

What about the PPG line? Pretty much rookies last year.
PPG line was a little different for a few reasons.

-Getzlaf and Perry weren't rookies last season, that was their 2nd season. 1st full season, but if you count the playoffs they played 73 and 67 games. So they both had essentially a full season's experience, as well as crucial playoff experience. Carter has 38 games experience (4 playoff), pending any additional playoff games. Ryan has 23 games, he's still Calder eligible next season.

-In their rookie seasons, Getzlaf and Perry were on the 4th line, with a vet in Fedoruk. That's the line to break multiple rookies in. I'm fine with single rookies on a higher line as a passenger (like Penner last year, Kunitz 2 years ago), but it's dangerous to count on multiple rookies to produce if you want to compete. I wouldn't mind Carter and Ryan on a line together, as long as they're with Sutherby, May, or Parros on the 4th line. Only problem is then our 4th line becomes much softer, so there might be a fair amount of rotating.

- Getzlaf and Perry have a much better pedigree, having torn up the AHL when we tried to put them down there. Carter has scored 44 points in 110 games. Ryan has a nice, but not exceptional, PPG.

We must be raelistic and look at hte cap situation. I don´t think that burke and the ducks are big players in this years free agency. The target must be a longtime signing of perry. It all depends on S Nieds decission. If he retires wee have some money to work, if nit schneider is as godd as gone. Bobby Ryan getting a regular season and we must live with what we have. The solution for our holes must come from within. Carter could be our second line center. This is the salary cap world. We must take a look back what team effort we got until mid december. The ducks where in danger to miss the play offs. The turning point was the comebacks of SNieds and teemu. These players could be gone next year and games against temas like the Yotes, blackhawks, oilers., could be more and more difficult. Their youngsters have more experience and confidence. No more easy two points games!!
I think that the 2009 season is a rebuilding season and i have n o poroblem with that. 2009 is not the worst time to start a rebuilding process.

1) After 2 years in a row we have our o w n first round pick.
2) the draft class 2008 ist very good and deep, the class 2009 is excellent with high end level prospect. Tavares, Hedman, Rajala. If we tank the season, we got a really, really good player.
3) We have a lot of players with contracts til 30.06.2009. If we out of the play off race at trading deadline 2009 we can expect a firesale.

- Who wants a power forward which produce in the pos - Bertuzzi
- Who wants a top pairing defenceman an powerplayquaterback - schneider
- Who wants solid defenders - O´Donnell/Beauch
- Who wants the best checking line and penaty killing unit/ Pahlson/Marchant/RNieds

Trade these players for prospects and picks and then we have a very good prospect pool and brilliant cap situation. These team can be back 2010!!!

Enjoy the playoffs 2008. Go Ducks!!!

09 might not be a bad time to rebuild, but if they do go that route, there's no chance they will be in the playoffs in 2010. Rebuilding takes a good 3-4 years. I still think we have another year or two before there has to be a rebuilding phase.

09 might not be a bad time to rebuild, but if they do go that route, there's no chance they will be in the playoffs in 2010. Rebuilding takes a good 3-4 years. I still think we have another year or two before there has to be a rebuilding phase.

Who says we ever have to rebuild? You think Burke won't restock this team properly when contracts start coming off the books?

But on the whole Naslund and Morrison thing. Naslund doesn't need to be signed. We have Kunie and Bert on the left side and Perry and Ryan on the right. That's assuming Teemu retires which he might not. We do need a center. Morrison would be a good fit barring he's healthy enough. I like Ryan Carter as much as the next guy but come on. He hasn't proved he can handle that job yet. At this point right now I'd feel more comfortable pegging Marhcant in that spot than Carter.

- Who wants the best checking line and penaty killing unit/ Pahlson/Marchant/RNieds

God is going nowhere. NOWHERE!

Trade these players for prospects and picks and then we have a very good prospect pool and brilliant cap situation...



...and we're right back to having two top-tier forwards, some prospects, and not a hope of contending for anything. You're taking for granted how difficult it is to build a genuine contender. How many times have the Wings had to blow it up and rebuild since they won a Cup? They haven't...they've taken their retirements and expiring contracts, and restocked. This is a strong, solid franchise with a great core of players, and a great core of staff. There's absolutely no reason to go for broke just to build up the "prospect pool". Do that, and the team will struggle for a sniff at the playoffs for years to come.

I'm fine with laying off the free agent market and letting developing players like Carter, Ryan, or Salcido carry more of a load. Even if that comes at the expense of being an elite team. However, a complete rebuild for the sake of the prospect pool and cap space isn't in anyone's best interests.

Funny how there hasn't been a single mention of Janne Pesonen (http://www.nelonen.fi/smliiga/videot.asp?videoId=392&newPage=0&publish_date=20080319) (golden helmet, #20 in black) yet. Ok, I know, not all Euro studs adapt well to the NHL ice, but a guy who has most points, most goals and the best +/- in the Finnish Elite League deserves a chance. Especially since he's going to be cheap.

Funny how there hasn't been a single mention of Janne Pesonen (http://www.nelonen.fi/smliiga/videot.asp?videoId=392&newPage=0&publish_date=20080319) (golden helmet, #20 in black) yet. Ok, I know, not all Euro studs adapt well to the NHL ice, but a guy who has most points, most goals and the best +/- in the Finnish Elite League deserves a chance. Especially since he's going to be cheap.

You know I was just going to come in here and say something about him, but youre a dick and beat me to it. This kid may be given a chance and maybe we'll strike gold and get some production out of him. Obviously that is wishful thinking but he could have a chance to make the big club next year if he is signed.

You know I was just going to come in here and say something about him, but youre a dick and beat me to it. This kid may be given a chance and maybe we'll strike gold and get some production out of him. Obviously that is wishful thinking but he could have a chance to make the big club next year if he is signed.

I think he'll be given as good a chance as any if he's signed. But there won't be a spot waiting for him or anything. He could be a gem though if he can translate his game to the NHL. I can see him being a Jussi Jokinen or Ville Peltonen type player in the NHL which is fine by me. At the very least he gets a contract and is dangled as good trade bait.

ya, if we don't give Pesonen a chance, Burke better have something real slick up his sleeve.

You know I was just going to come in here and say something about him, but youre a dick and beat me to it. This kid may be given a chance and maybe we'll strike gold and get some production out of him. Obviously that is wishful thinking but he could have a chance to make the big club next year if he is signed.

I am seriously cracking up over here.

Todd Bertuzzi-Ryan Getzlaf-Corey Perry
Chris Kunitz-Glen Metropolit-Rob Niedermayer(Scoring Threat/Pipe Dream)
Sean Avery-Samuel Pahlsson-Travis Moen
Others Maybe:
Jay Pandolfo

Don´t get me wrong guys, all i want to say that these are the players with contracts til 30.06.2009. I hope that burke can resign Pahlson and beauch if the price is right. They could be a part of the furture for the franchise. But if nothing is done at deadline 2009, i don´t want to lose these players for nothing after the season. Schneider (too old and too expensive), Bertuzzi ( injury phrone and expensive for his production) and RNieds/Marchant ( 4,5 Mil. Dollars for 3-liners) i don´t expect back.
Look what the trashers have done. They were in the same situation. They have a shot at the playoffs and another first round exit with Hossa. The price: Loose Hossa for nothing after the season. Waddel traded him for players, prospects and picks and think longterm. If you don´t can resign your UFAs til deadline you must accept that the player is gone and then i want to get a value return. No more bryzgalovs gifts for other teams. That are the rules for asset management.
Yes its right that teams like Detroit never go in a complete rebuilding process, but this was before we have a salary cap. When they veterans retired they go out and buy antother big name in the free agency. The money was always there. Wait at the end of the season 2009 and the resigning for a Zetterberg contract. Give him a normal season and play offs with 30 goals and 70 points and he is getting a Contract in the range of Datsuyk ( 6-7 Mill. Doll.) Good luck to the wings. They have to cut a leg on defence or a arm on offence to get him under contract. Its only a matter of time with the salary cap if you must go the rebuilding way. The Red wings are in the same boat!!!
If you want to win the cup you have a 3-year window. Our ducks have complete the goal last season and i am happy with that. Now we must reduce the expectation for 2009!!

OT, but speaking of the Wings, and since I like to wax poetic... Many people talk about how the Wings haven't had to fully rebuild, that they keep going on with draft gems. I don't think it's possible anymore to have sustained success in the manner that the Wings have done.

The Wings have managed to stay successful because they developed a 2nd core to succeed the original core of Yzerman, Fedorov, and Shanahan (as well as a few younger parts of the original core staying like Lidstrom and Holmstrom). The 2nd core is led by late draftees Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Which is admirable, and people can always point to that and say "see, that's how you can build a team and not have to suck."

But I don't think that's possible anymore. Both of the superstars were allowed to mature in Europe for very long times, coming to NA for the first time at 23. The problem with that is the new CBA means you only get their rights for 2 years, so you can't draft them at 18 and let them mature in Europe anymore.

Considering that late round "gems" tend to take longer than early round guys to make the NHL, I'm not sure there's going to be many late round draft gems anymore. Instead teams are either going to have to get gems by drafting older guys who've already done some of the developing, or by taking a chance and signing the young UFAs who didn't get contracts from their original drafting teams.

Just my $.02. Something to talk about instead of how poorly they played.

I think Naslund could realistically pot 25 goals while being a nonfactor both on the fore- and backcheck. So, Lupul in other words. Not a helpful player.
Having a Lupul on your team is not that bad of a thing. Yes there are going to be times when he drives you nuts but he's also going to score goals and we desperately need a sniper who can and will shoot the puck from anywhere.

We really need to upgrade the 4th line..you can't have it made up of guys with 0, 2 and 2 goals especially when you have trouble scoring to begin with. Having Carter and Ryan on the 4th line next year would be a welcome sight for me as long as the ice time is balanced out. If you can get Selanne(which means no Naslund) back for one more year then your only hole is at 2nd line center. And I would work towards getting an Andy Mac type who can skate, perhaps Mathew Lombardi from Calgary.

We have no semblance of a transition game because of the McDonald trade. Just way too predictable, the opponents know 90 percent of the time it's going to be dump and chase.

Having a Lupul on your team is not that bad of a thing. Yes there are going to be times when he drives you nuts but he's also going to score goals and we desperately need a sniper who can and will shoot the puck from anywhere.

We really need to upgrade the 4th line..you can't have it made up of guys with 0, 2 and 2 goals especially when you have trouble scoring to begin with. Having Carter and Ryan on the 4th line next year would be a welcome sight for me as long as the ice time is balanced out. If you can get Selanne(which means no Naslund) back for one more year then your only hole is at 2nd line center. And I would work towards getting an Andy Mac type who can skate, perhaps Mathew Lombardi from Calgary.

We have no semblance of a transition game because of the McDonald trade. Just way too predictable, the opponents know 90 percent of the time it's going to be dump and chase.

That's a guy who I suggested earlier, but many thought I overpaid(EDM 2nd) While that still may be the case, I think we should pursue it if Sutter's off his rocker enough to trade him. Lombardi's an awesome player and IMO could blossom with the right linemates(Kunitz).

OT, but speaking of the Wings, and since I like to wax poetic... Many people talk about how the Wings haven't had to fully rebuild, that they keep going on with draft gems. I don't think it's possible anymore to have sustained success in the manner that the Wings have done.

The Wings have managed to stay successful because they developed a 2nd core to succeed the original core of Yzerman, Fedorov, and Shanahan (as well as a few younger parts of the original core staying like Lidstrom and Holmstrom). The 2nd core is led by late draftees Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Which is admirable, and people can always point to that and say "see, that's how you can build a team and not have to suck."

But I don't think that's possible anymore. Both of the superstars were allowed to mature in Europe for very long times, coming to NA for the first time at 23. The problem with that is the new CBA means you only get their rights for 2 years, so you can't draft them at 18 and let them mature in Europe anymore.

Considering that late round "gems" tend to take longer than early round guys to make the NHL, I'm not sure there's going to be many late round draft gems anymore. Instead teams are either going to have to get gems by drafting older guys who've already done some of the developing, or by taking a chance and signing the young UFAs who didn't get contracts from their original drafting teams.

Just my $.02. Something to talk about instead of how poorly they played.

I think the idea of being Cup contender every single year despite the transition of cores like what the Wings have done is unlikely with the cap situation, but I'm talking about staying relevant during the transition, and regaining contender status relatively quickly. I don't see any reason the Ducks cannot remain a threat with a defense led by Pronger, goaltending from Giguere and Hiller, and a forward group including Getzlaf, Perry, Kunitz, and Pahlsson. Successful development of players like MacMillan, Mietra, and Ryan should help fill some of the roles we've had to fill through free agency in the past. I just don't see how a full-scale rebuild is necessary.

Anyone think this team looks vastly different next year? If we get ousted in the first round I can see some pretty big changes coming....but I just dont know how much Burke wants to change. We can probably list candidates of trades and such.

Retired:
Niedermayer
Selanne

Gone via free agency:
Weight

Trade Candidates:
Beauchemin
Schneider
Rob Niedermayer
Todd Marchant

Bertuzzi with his salary cant be moved, Marchant either but I listed him because his salary is smaller. There really isnt much Burke can do unless he wants to trade a young guy or draft picks. The team is pretty much running out of assets and we dont have much coming up next year. Maybe a guy like Brian Salcido can step in, but with Niedermayer leaving the downgrade is pretty substantial. To be honest, I cant see us keeping Schneider. He has been terrible down the stretch and his salary is huge. Burke can get a UFA dman for less money that is more reliable defensively though sacrificing some offense from the back. I dont know.......this offseason is going to be really interesting.

The problem is there aren't many UFA dmen available this season. Unless Semenov of the Sharks excites you.

http://www.nhlscap.com/2008fa_position.htm#defense

Oh, and BTW, this is exactly why I think we're going to have to go through an extended rebuild soon. Just because the team has made a lot of future for now trades to compete. Basically I see Burke often making good acquisitions, but paying too much for them. I'm skeptical as to how well he can lead a rebuild and wonder if we'll need a new GM when it's rebuild time. I was just thinking we'd have another 2-3 year window before it came to that.

There are guys like Bryce Salvador (avg 20 min a night and was +12 on a bad Blues team) Aaron Ward (avg 20 min a night +9 on Bruins) Brett Hedican (avg 19 a night, +17 on Hurricanes) that can fill the spot for cheaper than the high price guys like Redden or Campbell. They arent flashy but they are solid and they will free up room for scoring forwards, if we can find any.

I'm fine with Salvador, I thought NJ had one of the better deadline deals there. But he's essentially another OD, and we need some offense from the blueline if Niedermayer and Schneider are both gone. And no, MAB is not acceptable.

Hedican... pass. He's ancient and can't play a season anymore. He was good, but I'm not interested in current Hedican.

Ward? Meh. Kind of like Salvador. Solid, but I could take him or leave him.

We can't afford any of the high priced guys.

I really think we're just going to have to suck.

A couple forwards we could go after next year include Jason Williams (36 pts in 43 games, fast and has a rocket of a shot), Daymond Langkow, though he probably priced himself out of our range by scoring 30 goals this year, and Brenden Morrison, who will probably sign cheap because of his lost season as well as a torn ACL.

If we look to wingers, maybe using Bert as a center, there is Marcus Naslund, Corey Stillman, and Ryan Malone on the left side that I could see Burke pursuing though Malone probably priced himself out of our range as well with his 27 goals.

I'm fine with Salvador, I thought NJ had one of the better deadline deals there. But he's essentially another OD, and we need some offense from the blueline if Niedermayer and Schneider are both gone. And no, MAB is not acceptable.

Hedican... pass. He's ancient and can't play a season anymore. He was good, but I'm not interested in current Hedican.

Ward? Meh. Kind of like Salvador. Solid, but I could take him or leave him.

We can't afford any of the high priced guys.

I really think we're just going to have to suck.

They are just stop gaps though.....we arent going to compete for a cup next year but we need SOME scoring to at least compete for the playoffs. They free up some space to go towards another forward, and I can see Schnieder breaking next year and playing like 50 games so we would be screwed anyway.

Didn't Langkow re-sign for like 5 mill?

We could look at moving Ryan or Bertuzzi to C and getting a wing. There's much more available at wing.

Malone's probably a bad idea. I get the feeling he's due for a half step back on another team. Still a useful player (I'd expect more along the lines of his previous seasons of 22 goals), but that's just asking for an overpay if you pay him as a 27 goal 50 point guy.

Stillman I'm a fan of. I wanted him at the deadline.

I get the Williamses confused. There's the one in Toronto, who I think sucks. Then there's the one who was in Detroit. I think he was good but injured? And there's the one in Carolina (Philly too?). And I think he's the best one? I have no idea who has which first name, just that they all start with J and it really ****s with my head.

Oh and Bertuzzi and Marchant et al are all movable. But only at the deadline if we're selling. Tank for Hedman?

Probably just going to sign someone like Brendan Morrison to a 1 yr deal.

Kunitz-Getzlaf-Perry
Bertuzzi-Morrison-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer
May-Carter/Marchant-Parros

I'm guessing Sutherby does not get a qualifying offer. Teemu and Scott will retire.

Next season will be very interesting. If the Ducks fall out of the playoff race without Selanne and Scott, Burke will have some decisions to make at the trade deadline. UFA's July 1, 2009: Schneider, Beauchemin, Huskins, Bertuzzi, Pahlsson, Moen, Rob Niedermayer, O'Donnell, Marchant, May, Parros.

2009-2010 team is going to look very different from the 2007-2008 team.

I get the Williamses confused. There's the one in Toronto, who I think sucks. Then there's the one who was in Detroit. I think he was good but injured? And there's the one in Carolina (Philly too?). And I think he's the best one? I have no idea who has which first name, just that they all start with J and it really ****s with my head.

Oh and Bertuzzi and Marchant et al are all movable. But only at the deadline if we're selling. Tank for Hedman?

There is the crappy one in Toronto, Justin Williams in Carolina (formerly with the Flyers) and Jason Williams with Chicago (formerly with Detroit).

And Bert wont be moved simply because of the lack of talent on the team already as well as the relationship between him and Burke, unless of course Burke goes into full blown rebuild mode which he really isnt known to do.

Lets go into some weird **** right now though. Lets say Burke does take the job in Toronto, and lets say whomever comes in, or takes over if its from someone in house, goes into full rebuild mode......how about moving Pronger? We arent going to contend for a cup and he isnt getting any younger.....I dont think I would cry too much if he was traded for a bunch of good young talent, and we build the right way. The downside of course will be our new found "fans" leaving but I think our window of winning the cup just closed and it may be smart to get what we can for our older players. Just throwing it out there.

Probably just going to sign someone like Brendan Morrison to a 1 yr deal.

Kunitz-Getzlaf-Perry
Bertuzzi-Morrison-Ryan
Moen-Pahlsson-Niedermayer
May-Carter/Marchant-Parros

I'm guessing Sutherby does not get a qualifying offer. Teemu and Scott will retire.

Next season will be very interesting. If the Ducks fall out of the playoff race without Selanne and Scott, Burke will have some decisions to make at the trade deadline. UFA's July 1, 2009: Schneider, Beauchemin, Huskins, Bertuzzi, Pahlsson, Moen, Rob Niedermayer, O'Donnell, Marchant, May, Parros.

2009-2010 team is going to look very different from the 2007-2008 team.

I only see Huskins and Pahlsson being kept there....maybe Moen, maybe Parros.

I only see Huskins and Pahlsson being kept there....maybe Moen, maybe Parros.

Agreed. I think Huskins and Pahlsson are the ones that Burke targets for extensions.

There is the crappy one in Toronto, Justin Williams in Carolina (formerly with the Flyers) and Jason Williams with Chicago (formerly with Detroit).

And Bert wont be moved simply because of the lack of talent on the team already as well as the relationship between him and Burke, unless of course Burke goes into full blown rebuild mode which he really isnt known to do.

Lets go into some weird **** right now though. Lets say Burke does take the job in Toronto, and lets say whomever comes in, or takes over if its from someone in house, goes into full rebuild mode......how about moving Pronger? We arent going to contend for a cup and he isnt getting any younger.....I dont think I would cry too much if he was traded for a bunch of good young talent, and we build the right way. The downside of course will be our new found "fans" leaving but I think our window of winning the cup just closed and it may be smart to get what we can for our older players. Just throwing it out there.
Well yeah I'm saying Bert could be moved if they were going into rebuild mode. Because if there's a chance at making the playoffs, you keep your UFAs even if it means "losing the guy for nothing!" that people like to whine about.

In general, I'm actually not a fan of trading everybody away for shiny draft picks. I think that leads to disaster, because then you get kids learning how to lose. I think a winning environment and good character vets are just as important (if not more so) for developing a winning team than pure talent and high picks. But if we're going into rebuild mode, it doesn't hurt to move a few big guys like a Pronger to get some nice pieces. Just don't raze the team to the ground like is being advocated by some in Toronto. Because that's Clipper territory there.

But really this team as built does have some younger pieces that should mean we don't have to go through a complete rebuild for another couple years. And there really should be a cap crisis sometime in the near future. It just looks like our window is closing faster than anticipated, and the cap crisis is getting delayed a couple years past what I expected.

But even if we crash and burn now, I wouldn't give up on the guys who were here in 07. I think it might add the hunger that was missing this year, and guys like Beauchemin will be much better.

Pronger wouldnt be traded for just draft picks....I bet we could get at least a couple real good young players along with a pick for him. Im not for creating a losing environment either but if we arent contending Id rather see what we could get for him since he is on the downside of his career and his contract will be up in when we may be back on the upside. Its just something to think about.

Hmmm...if we suck next year, we could have some real nice players to sell at the deadline. I wouldn't be against a one year suckage if it meant we could restock the pipeline and get some younger players some NHL action. I think the 09-10 Ducks will be a good team, since they will have so much cap space to sign some good players.TaNK 4 TAvaREs!:sarcasm:

What are your thoughts on trading for Cammalleri? Beauchemin + for Cammalleri +?

The only real contracts I'd be desperate to get rid of are bad ones like Bertuzzi's and Scott's. Lose those and I think we can still be a good team next season with proper replacements.

What are your thoughts on trading for Cammalleri? Beauchemin + for Cammalleri +?

I'd do that straight up...but I don't think the Kings would after his terrible season.

Two years ago, we had 7 rookies in the lineup and those young kids played over their heads. Last year, we had a good mix between youth and vets and won the Stanley Cup. This year, the team is old and slow. Our veterans aren't leading and the kids aren't providing the legs we need. Watch the Washington Capitals. They play with so much energy, the style we used to play. Burke doesn't need to clean house but retool and get some players hungry for the cup.

The only real contracts I'd be desperate to get rid of are bad ones like Bertuzzi's and Scott's. Lose those and I think we can still be a good team next season with proper replacements.

Are you kidding me? If we're lucky Scotty agrees to come back next year. Need I remind you how this team played without him. It's Schneider's contract we'd need to get rid of.

Two years ago, we had 7 rookies in the lineup and those young kids played over their heads. Last year, we had a good mix between youth and vets and won the Stanley Cup. This year, the team is old and slow. Our veterans aren't leading and the kids aren't providing the legs we need. Watch the Washington Capitals. They play with so much energy, the style we used to play. Burke doesn't need to clean house but retool and get some players hungry for the cup.

But who, and more importantly, how? We have few assets to trade and not much money to play with. We'll see what Burke does, if he decides to stick around. I really cant see Bertuzzi being traded though...he makes too much money for his production and is a head case. I dont see why any other team would be interested in that at that salary unless we take back a similar bad contract.

What are your thoughts on trading for Cammalleri? Beauchemin + for Cammalleri +?

I don't know if two rivals would make that type of trade, but it makes sense with both being UFA's July 2009. You need a defensmen who eats up minutes we need another scorer.

Are you kidding me? If we're lucky Scotty agrees to come back next year. Need I remind you how this team played without him. It's Schneider's contract we'd need to get rid of.
He's been bad this year. The team played poorly without him because they weren't focused.

It's nice that he missed playing, but that isn't really the same as being passionate anymore. I'd really like for him to retire.

Trading Bertuzzi should be the first step to fixing this problem.

And given the way this Anaheim team has been playing lately, you do not want Markus Naslund on your roster. Better to get a piece of cardboard and draw a sad face on it instead.

I don't know if two rivals would make that type of trade, but it makes sense with both being UFA's July 2009. You need a defensmen who eats up minutes we need another scorer.

That's why I added the + as well. Maybe the Kings could add Tukonen, to give you guys another Finn who might fit better in your system, and the Ducks could add?

That's why I added the + as well. Maybe the Kings could add Tukonen, to give you guys another Finn who might fit better in your system, and the Ducks could add?

noooo, Beauchimen is not the best we can get IMO

He's been bad this year. The team played poorly without him because they weren't focused.

It's nice that he missed playing, but that isn't really the same as being passionate anymore. I'd really like for him to retire.

Scotty has been amazing, what are you talking about? We don't make the playoffs without Scotty in the lineup. If he retires this summer expect a similarly mediocre team to hit the ice. I don't want Scotty to ever retire, he's the best player we've ever had.

Next year there might be a "restructuring" of sorts. I won't say that we are going to go through a rebuild because I don't think we will be that bad, but I do think that we aren't going to be at the level of the past two seasons.

The price of a cup I'm afraid. Completely worth it of-course, but it still sucks.

Trading Bertuzzi would be a good start. But that's not bloody likely because 1) nobody wants to pay $4 mil for 13 goals and 2) He's Burke's boy.

We desperately need someone who has some speed. We have a bunch of slow, big mediocre skaters.

edit: okay 14 goals, but same difference.

Scotty has been amazing, what are you talking about? We don't make the playoffs without Scotty in the lineup. If he retires this summer expect a similarly mediocre team to hit the ice. I don't want Scotty to ever retire, he's the best player we've ever had.
He hasn't been amazing at all, he's not even on the same page as the rest of the team. Don't listen to Hayward, and don't just watch him skate. I know it's pretty.

He gets beat wide, he loses battles for the puck, his rushes are ineffective and poorly timed. He still makes a nice outlet pass, though, and is still one of the best in the league at skating it out of the zone. But he's half the player he was last year.

There is the crappy one in Toronto, Justin Williams in Carolina (formerly with the Flyers) and Jason Williams with Chicago (formerly with Detroit).

And Bert wont be moved simply because of the lack of talent on the team already as well as the relationship between him and Burke, unless of course Burke goes into full blown rebuild mode which he really isnt known to do.

Lets go into some weird **** right now though. Lets say Burke does take the job in Toronto, and lets say whomever comes in, or takes over if its from someone in house, goes into full rebuild mode......how about moving Pronger? We arent going to contend for a cup and he isnt getting any younger.....I dont think I would cry too much if he was traded for a bunch of good young talent, and we build the right way. The downside of course will be our new found "fans" leaving but I think our window of winning the cup just closed and it may be smart to get what we can for our older players. Just throwing it out there.
An eastern team would pay through the nose to get someone like Pronger. I wouldn't rip the core apart but we're looking at being mediocre for a while if the front office just stays content with an old roster.

Next year we can't have May and Sutherby both playing regularly. Ryan has to be here, regardless of 1st or 4th line duties. Last year we could live with a crap 4th line because we had very good first and second lines. Trading McDonald for what we got was horrible, no young talent or real assets for a guy who was a ppg player for two years...pathetic.

I all depends on the playoffs. If the ducks get eleminated in the first round then this could be a very interested summer. I agree 100% with obobo23. An early exit and everybody wants roster changes because this team is too slow and old. Moving some of the veterans are great but for what price?
Like I said in another post, Bertuzzi, Marchant RNieds, Schneider are all tradebale at the deadline 2009, not at the start of the season. Ask your self: If you are GM of a franchise woud you give up anything to get a player like Bertuzzi and his 4 Milliion contract? If we want to trade these players summer 2008 we get the same bad player/contract in return or have to sweeten the deal with picks and prospects. This is something i don´t want to do, especially if we go the rebuilding/restructing route.

Another question: If the ducks are golfing next week do you think Burke is going to Toronto? Is he really a good choice for a franchise which must go into rebuilding modus? I dont`t think so. For me Burke is a person with a big ego and wants to be in the spotlight. If things not happen in the right direction i could see him leaving.

I all depends on the playoffs. If the ducks get eleminated in the first round then this could be a very interested summer. I agree 100% with obobo23. An early exit and everybody wants roster changes because this team is too slow and old. Moving some of the veterans are great but for what price?
Like I said in another post, Bertuzzi, Marchant RNieds, Schneider are all tradebale at the deadline 2009, not at the start of the season. Ask your self: If you are GM of a franchise woud you give up anything to get a player like Bertuzzi and his 4 Milliion contract? If we want to trade these players summer 2008 we get the same bad player/contract in return or have to sweeten the deal with picks and prospects. This is something i don´t want to do, especially if we go the rebuilding/restructing route.

Another question: If the ducks are golfing next week do you think Burke is going to Toronto? Is he really a good choice for a franchise which must go into rebuilding modus? I dont`t think so. For me Burke is a person with a big ego and wants to be in the spotlight. If things not happen in the right direction i could see him leaving.

I agree with this post. What GM is going to give up a good young player that is on the rise for a not so good anymore old player that is on the decline? You may get some picks and prospects for these guys at the trade deadline next season, but I wouldn't expect young, proven NHL players in return.

I agree with this post. What GM is going to give up a good young player that is on the rise for a not so good anymore old player that is on the decline? You may get some picks and prospects for these guys at the trade deadline next season, but I wouldn't expect young, proven NHL players in return.

What GM is going to give up young guys for old guys? your GM. Penner for Big Burt that looks like a good deal now hey. Want to fix your offence make sure Burke signs in Toronto, as he rather pay for PAST offence rather than furture offence. And if they go out Burke won't be worried about an offersheet to Perry because he will run to Toronto and leave that mess to the new GM

What GM is going to give up young guys for old guys? your GM. Penner for Big Burt that looks like a good deal now hey. Want to fix your offence make sure Burke signs in Toronto, as he rather pay for PAST offence rather than furture offence. And if they go out Burke won't be worried about an offersheet to Perry because he will run to Toronto and leave that mess to the new GM

HF Boards needs a standardized entrance exam before they allow people to post. Anything to avoid the further degradation of the site. I hate seeing the main-boardish crap like this seep into the team boards.

Swany, find the official NHL transaction report where you found a trade between the Ducks and Oilers where Bertuzzi was traded for Penner. Then come back here and post your findings. That should keep you occupied for a while.

HF Boards needs a standardized entrance exam before they allow people to post. Anything to avoid the further degradation of the site. I hate seeing the main-boardish crap like this seep into the team boards.

Swany, find the official NHL transaction report where you found a trade between the Ducks and Oilers where Bertuzzi was traded for Penner. Then come back here and post your findings. That should keep you occupied for a while.

It wasn't a trade outright but your GM let Penner walk and then signed an overaged has been for the same amount of money, by the way do you guys know that if you go out in the first round we pick 18 so we got Penner for 6 spots in the draft great deal by Klowe not so good by Burke

WTF?!

The series isnt done by a loooong shot!

Damn, I hope the players arent as weak-willed as (some) of their fans.

It wasn't a trade outright but your GM let Penner walk and then signed an overaged has been for the same amount of money, by the way do you guys know that if you go out in the first round we pick 18 so we got Penner for 6 spots in the draft great deal by Klowe not so good by Burke
In other words, you're pointing out yet again how Kevin Lowe is an idiot.

The earliest the Ducks pick could be is 20, since they're the highest seeded non-division winning team. And that's only if all division leaders lost in the 1st or 2nd round. Any division leader making the conference finals drops the Duck's pick a spot.

Oh and BTW, Burke didn't trade Penner for "6 spots in the draft," since Anaheim didn't send it's pick as part of the Penner transaction. I'm guessing you're not a history major, or really any kind of field that deals with facts.

That's why I added the + as well. Maybe the Kings could add Tukonen, to give you guys another Finn who might fit better in your system, and the Ducks could add?
I get the feeling "another Finn" (or really, any European) is the last thing Burke wants.

Cammalleri for Beauchemin makes sense though. 2 impending UFAs who might need a change of scenery. Shoring up the weaknesses of both teams. I wanted Cammalleri at the beginning of the season, thinking that a Bryz for Cammy trade would have made so much sense. He's kind of a floater like Lupul, but I think he could have done well as a sniper for Getzlaf.

I think Beauchemin's high last season was slightly higher than Cammy's high though. LA might have to add something low and stupid to balance. Like a depth AHL guy who will never make the NHL or something.

In other words, you're pointing out yet again how Kevin Lowe is an idiot.

The earliest the Ducks pick could be is 20, since they're the highest seeded non-division winning team. And that's only if all division leaders lost in the 1st or 2nd round. Any division leader making the conference finals drops the Duck's pick a spot.

Oh and BTW, Burke didn't trade Penner for "6 spots in the draft," since Anaheim didn't send it's pick as part of the Penner transaction. I'm guessing you're not a history major, or really any kind of field that deals with facts.

But we do have your first pick this year(part of Pronger trade) so it is basicly 6 sports we get your pick you get ours, before you call Klowe an idiot lets see how happy you are when Perry gets scooped up by another club, Burke has seen what happens when you don't sign guys and yet there sits Perry, maybe he should extend Burt 2 more years and Schnieds they could play for Burke till they 50

But we do have your first pick this year(part of Pronger trade) so it is basicly 6 sports we get your pick you get ours, before you call Klowe an idiot lets see how happy you are when Perry gets scooped up by another club, Burke has seen what happens when you don't sign guys and yet there sits Perry, maybe he should extend Burt 2 more years and Schnieds they could play for Burke till they 50
It isn't "basically 6 spots." And I'll ignore the fact that I already pointed out that in your crazy fantasy world it would actually be 8 spots. You had both picks. Then you gave away the higher pick. I don't understand why people make such completely stupid rationalizations to feel better about themselves.

And why do Oilers fans always have to respond to pointing out dumb moves by their GM with "but ___ also made a dumb move?" Does this excuse the fact that Lowe made a dumb move? Other GM's dumb moves don't excuse the moves that Burke makes that I hate, why are you so easily fooled into accepting poor decisions? And as far as you know, I could hate Burke and your argument would mean nothing to me.

In fact, I hate a lot of Burke's moves. Bertuzzi was dumb, it has nothing to do with Penner and all to do with the fact that Bertuzzi sucks. I was against that signing the second it was announced. Bryzgalov I don't like very much, but I at least understand why he did that because we couldn't risk losing the better (and better fit timetable wise) Hiller. And in pretty much all of Burke's trades, I'm a fan of the main motivation (getting rid of Fedorov's contract, getting an enforcer, getting Sutherby, clearing Hnidy's cap space), but not a fan of the trade value.

Can't people debate the actual thing being discussed anymore, instead of turning everything into some stupid "mine's bigger" pissing match? It's really pretty pathetic.

It isn't "basically 6 spots." And I'll ignore the fact that I already pointed out that in your crazy fantasy world it would actually be 8 spots. You had both picks. Then you gave away the higher pick. I don't understand why people make such completely stupid rationalizations to feel better about themselves.

And why do Oilers fans always have to respond to pointing out dumb moves by their GM with "but ___ also made a dumb move?" Does this excuse the fact that Lowe made a dumb move? Other GM's dumb moves don't excuse the moves that Burke makes that I hate, why are you so easily fooled into accepting poor decisions? And as far as you know, I could hate Burke and your argument would mean nothing to me.

In fact, I hate a lot of Burke's moves. Bertuzzi was dumb, it has nothing to do with Penner and all to do with the fact that Bertuzzi sucks. I was against that signing the second it was announced. Bryzgalov I don't like very much, but I at least understand why he did that because we couldn't risk losing the better (and better fit timetable wise) Hiller. And in pretty much all of Burke's trades, I'm a fan of the main motivation (getting rid of Fedorov's contract, getting an enforcer, getting Sutherby, clearing Hnidy's cap space), but not a fan of the trade value.

Can't people debate the actual thing being discussed anymore, instead of turning everything into some stupid "mine's bigger" pissing match? It's really pretty pathetic.

Fair enough, to fix your offence, I think you need to start like us (sorry) but we sucked it up and got rid of some older players Smyth (I was not happy about that trade) but it worked out. we have about 8 new guys that look real good 16 of our players are 25 and under, The Ducks have a great group of young players Perry, Getzlaf, Kunitz and so on. You need to let Dougie, Burt, Marchant, and some older guys go. Your D is outstanding and your Goalie is top 10. not to much to fix

Fair enough, to fix your offence, I think you need to start like us (sorry) but we sucked it up and got rid of some older players Smyth (I was not happy about that trade) but it worked out. we have about 8 new guys that look real good 16 of our players are 25 and under, The Ducks have a great group of young players Perry, Getzlaf, Kunitz and so on. You need to let Dougie, Burt, Marchant, and some older guys go. Your D is outstanding and your Goalie is top 10. not to much to fix
Nice to have actual debate with an outsider. There's been a definite lack of substance from outsiders recently.

I am thinking there's going to have to be major selling off and rebuilding eventually, but that's probably not going to help fix the offense next year (when the team probably should still be attempting to compete).

But here's a philosophical thing. I'm actually not a fan of a huge youth movement in general. Like how the Oilers have so many promising guys under 25. I don't think that leads to good long term health. I think it leads to very short windows to be competitive, especially with a cap. Just think in a few years, when the promising kids start to perform, now they're all going to want big money at the same time. How is the team going to pay them all? Just look at how everyone thinks the Penguins are going to need to trade off some big assets. This strategy made a lot of sense in a non-cap world, where teams could save up money during the rebuilding years, and spend to retain the stacked core after they've matured. Then you'd have a large, stable core and could have an extended dynasty, sort of like the 80s Oilers. But I don't think this is feasible with a cap.

I think that if a team wants to be mostly successful, it's going to have to have a small permanent core, filled by a mix of guys at all ages. They need the flexibility to eject the filler guys if they become too expensive and replace them with cheap, young guys who they've developed in the winning atmosphere. Think the Patriots. The only problem is this strategy is extremely hard to pull off.