Bobby Ryan or Jack Johnson

Who would you have drafted?

Who would you have drafted?

Anze Kopitar but from the tone of my voice, I'm not bitter one bit. :cry:

Jack Johnson.....however the point is moot since we have no idea what Ryan is going to turn into. He could be an 80+ point winger or he could be a 45 point powerplay specialist.

Jack Johnson.....however the point is moot since we have no idea what Ryan is going to turn into. He could be an 80+ point winger or he could be a 45 point powerplay specialist.

Yea you never know.

I'm so sick of this question. It was almost three years ago. Burkie was certain about the pick and that's fine for me. I think Johnson is a little overrated at this point. He's really good but I don't know if he'll be any more of an impact player than Bobby. Bobby has a lot of upside we've yet to see. I'm fine with whom we picked.

Anze Kopitar but from the tone of my voice, I'm not bitter one bit. :cry:

Talk about something that fell into LA's lap. Really no other way to think about it.

My list at the time was 1) Johnson 2) Kopitar ......<insert huge gap>....... 3) Ryan 4)Brule 5) Pouliot. I never heard of Price as being in that tier at the time, but in hindsight it looks like he should have been.

As of now I'd rather have Kopitar by a lot, then Johnson is only a tad above Ryan. I get the impression that Johnson doesn't have the best hockey sense in deciding when to rush/pinch/go for a big hit. His team best -19 doesn't do much to assuage that fear. His paltry 11 points isn't the most comforting sign yet either. Not that his season is a negative, it just isn't a positive. On the other hand, Ryan also seems to have big time talent and no head, so it's almost a wash.

Johnson

This is easy, JOHNSON is hurt you dummies!!!!

Seriouslly though, our needs as of now is a top 6 forward.

But i do like Jack Johnson's name cuz of his singing and i LOVE that he is called JMFJ AKA jack mother ****ing johnson

Its still too early to tell. I would have said Koptiar > Johnson > Ryan, but a high skill player develops faster than a power play forward who develops faster than a defenseman.

Case in point Kariya and Chris Pronger. Kariya was definitely more valuable early on, but no way would you pass over Pronger now.

In 5 years, the value might be dramatic the other way around.

Its still too early to tell. I would have said Koptiar > Johnson > Ryan, but a high skill player develops faster than a power play forward who develops faster than a defenseman.

Case in point Kariya and Chris Pronger. Kariya was definitely more valuable early on, but no way would you pass over Pronger now.

In 5 years, the value might be dramatic the other way around.

I can assure you, if Chris Pronger was still on the board by the fourth pick Guethier would have said his name instead. Pronger should have gone number one that's the beauty of hindsight, it's always crystal clear.

Back to the subject at hand. I don't like throwing Kopitar's name in the mix because he was never an option. He was passed by 10 teams for a reason and that was because no one knew for sure how good he'd be over here. I remember people saying the Kings took a pick risk taking him at 11. If it were more certain he'd turn out the way he has he would have been the second pick no question.

Anyhow, what really has Johnson done so far though that makes him look like a better pick? He's good and all but I don't think he's displayed anything that shows he'll be better than Bobby. His reputation has amplified his status I think. But he does has a cool nickname.

What has Johnson really done?
Ive seen alot of Kings game and i was expecting a Scott Stevens and what i was watching is a player about as physical as Bergeren. Nothing special. I think Ryan is the better player

Actually, I think most of us were up in arms on draft day when the Ducks didn't pick Jack Johnson and responded with "Ryan who?!".

But as Dirk stated, I too was thinking of someone special like a Scott Stevens or even our own Scotty type of play for JMFJ. But after watching a few games, I don't see much. Maybe I'm expecting too much from JMFJ after so much hype. Or even comparing JMFJ to his teammate's performance, Kopitar, I'm a bit disappointed.

In the past few games, Ryan actually hits people and scored! So there's room for improvement, but there's already glances of "ohhhh" moves from Ryan as well. Really, though, it's too early to tell. I mean look at King Beauch. You'd think we didn't have anything to worry about for the next few years, but I'm terrified with Beauch out there!

I can assure you, if Chris Pronger was still on the board by the fourth pick Guethier would have said his name instead. Pronger should have gone number one that's the beauty of hindsight, it's always crystal clear.

Back to the subject at hand. I don't like throwing Kopitar's name in the mix because he was never an option. He was passed by 10 teams for a reason and that was because no one knew for sure how good he'd be over here. I remember people saying the Kings took a pick risk taking him at 11. If it were more certain he'd turn out the way he has he would have been the second pick no question.

Anyhow, what really has Johnson done so far though that makes him look like a better pick? He's good and all but I don't think he's displayed anything that shows he'll be better than Bobby. His reputation has amplified his status I think. But he does has a cool nickname.

So let me get this straight. Hindsight or not, you are saying Pronger should have been picked #1 over Alexandre Daigle???

Definetly Johnson at the time. He was #2 on every draft board/mock draft that I saw (except the Ducks' apparently).

It's not as certain now. I'm not as sold on Johnson becoming a #1 d-man. He seems a little over-rated, but he should at least settle in as a solid #3 d-man. Of course franchise d-man potential is still there.

Ryan's future is probably even less clear. Could be a first line All-Star or a 2nd line powerplay specialist. Still a slim chance that Ryan is a complete bust.

Jack Johnson is a way better musician than Bobby Ryan. No question.

Back to the subject at hand. I don't like throwing Kopitar's name in the mix because he was never an option. He was passed by 10 teams for a reason and that was because no one knew for sure how good he'd be over here. I remember people saying the Kings took a pick risk taking him at 11. If it were more certain he'd turn out the way he has he would have been the second pick no question.
We must have been reading different things, because Kopitar was an option. Everything I ever read about the 05 draft said that there was a 2nd tier of 5 guys, and Kopitar was always in it. Brule, Ryan, Johnson, Kopitar, and Pouliot. Just look at the HF mock draft (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7795/hockeys_future2005_staff_mock_draft/). Or the ISS rankings (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7785/iss_top15_prospects_for_the2005_nhl_draft/). Red Line also had him 6th.

I don't know who said the Kings were taking a risk at 11, those people were dumb. I remember Kings fans rejoicing that they got away with another draft steal, just like Brown and Tukonen the years past. That they got at ~11 guys that were supposed to go well before.

Yes there was some small amount of risk in Kopitar, but at the same time I believe he was considered to have some of the highest upside in that tier. He only dropped because of the stupid Slovenian factor, even though he had been playing in an established league. I vividly remember wanting him over all the other forwards (but less than Johnson) with the #2.

I think everyone who thinks Ryan will not work out is a little bit too harsh. Jack Johnson or Ryan will not make much differnce IMO because I still think both can be impact players. If it it was Erik Johnson then I would turn my head but so far I really think Ryan will show what he can do. Even more, if Bobby would play for L.A. he would also have better NHL stats.

What I still don't understand is why we did not pic up Guillaume Latendresse and why we drafted Mikkelsson instead.

I love how people judge Johnson's physical play. It's obvious the Kings wanted him to learn the defensive end of the game first. He stated many times that he was more worried about not getting out of position to make a big hit. Expect him to be a lot more physical next season.

I'm not going to say this but I'm sure if you ask any Kings fan they too would say that Ryan hasn't proven anything yet, and that they aren't sold on him being a top 6 winger.

At the time I wanted JJ...but everytime I watch him I come away thinking he has very good talent but his hockey sense and understanding is a work in progress. The Kings have reigned him in, at Michigan for every great rush goal he'd start, he'd also make an equally bad decision to jump into the play. The question is when the Kings give him more freedom will he revert to Michigan Jack?

I think I would still prefere Johnson to Ryan but at the same time Ryan shows sick flashes of talent, needless to say they are both projects IMO.

I remember a lot of people wanting to take Brule though, I don't know if the Jackets ruined his development but I'd take Ryan over him at this point..

Definetly Johnson at the time. He was #2 on every draft board/mock draft that I saw (except the Ducks' apparently).

It's not as certain now. I'm not as sold on Johnson becoming a #1 d-man. He seems a little over-rated, but he should at least settle in as a solid #3 d-man. Of course franchise d-man potential is still there.

Ryan's future is probably even less clear. Could be a first line All-Star or a 2nd line powerplay specialist. Still a slim chance that Ryan is a complete bust.

I agree with you on every count, while adding that a lot has been talked about Johnson's offensive upside. While he is obviously focusing on the defensive aspect of the game, I don't know that he can be good defensively and excel offensively. I think it's possible, but given what I've seen from him I think he'll be streaky.

In my opinion, he'll either be fairly well-rounded, or he'll be offense primarily. I don't think he can be a consistent offensive presence without sacrificing his defensive ability. He doesn't have the ability to recover like Scott Niedermayer, and I haven't seen that great hockey IQ of some of the really gifted two-way defensemen. At the NHL level I think he'll get burned defensively if he joins the rush too much, or goes deep in the offensive zone, and if he focuses on defense he won't be able to create that offense to begin with.

Bobby Ryan is a lot like Johnson in that the potential is there. We've seen it. The problem is consistency, and whether he can be a presence in every game. The thing that might hurt Bobby Ryan ultimately, and could decide whether he is an All-Star or just a powerplay specialist, is his skating ability.

We must have been reading different things, because Kopitar was an option. Everything I ever read about the 05 draft said that there was a 2nd tier of 5 guys, and Kopitar was always in it. Brule, Ryan, Johnson, Kopitar, and Pouliot. Just look at the HF mock draft (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7795/hockeys_future2005_staff_mock_draft/). Or the ISS rankings (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7785/iss_top15_prospects_for_the2005_nhl_draft/). Red Line also had him 6th.

I don't know who said the Kings were taking a risk at 11, those people were dumb. I remember Kings fans rejoicing that they got away with another draft steal, just like Brown and Tukonen the years past. That they got at ~11 guys that were supposed to go well before.

Yes there was some small amount of risk in Kopitar, but at the same time I believe he was considered to have some of the highest upside in that tier. He only dropped because of the stupid Slovenian factor, even though he had been playing in an established league. I vividly remember wanting him over all the other forwards (but less than Johnson) with the #2.

But those doubts were still there and that's why he fell. Sure his potential was there but there was obviously an amount of doubt considering he fell like he did. Kopitar would have been nice if we had drafted him but it was a very likelihood.

But those doubts were still there and that's why he fell. Sure his potential was there but there was obviously an amount of doubt considering he fell like he did. Kopitar would have been nice if we had drafted him but it was a very likelihood.
Kopitar's doubts weren't any worse than any of the other guys except for Johnson. That's why 05 wasn't seen as a good draft, there was only 1 or 2 guys who didn't have major questions. Brule: too small for his style, might be injury prone. Ryan: bad skater, defense. Kopitar: No Slovenians in the NHL. And probably for the Ducks: European. Pouliot: soso skater, unproven (1st year in CHL). I think Johnson's only semi-doubt was size (for his style) and possibly defense, but they weren't considered very serious.

Completely ignoring what has actually happened to the prospects, the doubts around Kopitar were easily the most unfounded among the group. He played in Swe jr, not in the Slovenian leagues, so there was no more reason to doubt him than say Gaborik, who played (I think) in the the Slovakian jr league. I think Kovalchuk was drafted out of the 2nd tier Russian league as well.

I'm not going to say this but I'm sure if you ask any Kings fan they too would say that Ryan hasn't proven anything yet, and that they aren't sold on him being a top 6 winger.

Ducks fans aren't sold on him being a top 6 winger.

I remember a lot of people wanting to take Brule though, I don't know if the Jackets ruined his development but I'd take Ryan over him at this point..

Columbus definetly rushed him to the NHL.

Kopitar's doubts weren't any worse than any of the other guys except for Johnson. That's why 05 wasn't seen as a good draft, there was only 1 or 2 guys who didn't have major questions. Brule: too small for his style, might be injury prone. Ryan: bad skater, defense. Kopitar: No Slovenians in the NHL. And probably for the Ducks: European. Pouliot: soso skater, unproven (1st year in CHL). I think Johnson's only semi-doubt was size (for his style) and possibly defense, but they weren't considered very serious.

Completely ignoring what has actually happened to the prospects, the doubts around Kopitar were easily the most unfounded among the group. He played in Swe jr, not in the Slovenian leagues, so there was no more reason to doubt him than say Gaborik, who played (I think) in the the Slovakian jr league. I think Kovalchuk was drafted out of the 2nd tier Russian league as well.
And Ryans defense and skating have improved since he was drafted. This year alone from the beginning of the year to now he's shown solid improvement.. the ducks obviously have a formula to improve skating. He will never be great but if he can even get his skating to Perry or Getzlaf level his game will translate very well IMO..