Bobby Ryan Question

Oilers fan here (please don't hate).

I was just wondering how Bobby Ryan has done since being drafted as the first pick after Crosby in 2005. I know they say power forwards take a while to develop, but I was expecting he'd have established himself by now in the NHL as the 2nd overall pick.

He seems to be managing to hold his own in the AHL (about a point per game), but I was wondering if his play has lived up to the hype that had him picked so high. Is he really the next great power forward in the league, or has his value floundered in the past few years?

Also, is there any reason why his game hasn't translated into NHL success, other than the unbelievable forward depth you guys have?

Oilers fan here (please don't hate).

I was just wondering how Bobby Ryan has done since being drafted as the first pick after Crosby in 2005. I know they say power forwards take a while to develop, but I was expecting he'd have established himself by now in the NHL as the 2nd overall pick.

He seems to be managing to hold his own in the AHL (about a point per game), but I was wondering if his play has lived up to the hype that had him picked so high. Is he really the next great power forward in the league, or has his value floundered in the past few years?

Also, is there any reason why his game hasn't translated into NHL success, other than the unbelievable forward depth you guys have?

The Ducks have had Selanne and Perry infront of him right now, so that's why he was not on the team until the recent injuries. He started the year with Anaheim and played pretty well, although he did struggle in some areas. However most of us were pleased. He got sent down even though he was playing very well, primarily for cap reasons. He's played well since being called up, except for one game, however for some reason he's still stuck on the 4th line. He had a great game tonight as well. The Ducks have not rushed his development due to the fact that they are blessed with solid wingers already. Selanne, Perry, Kunitz, and Bertuzzi are the wingers that make up the top two lines.

As far as his skills go: He's got the hands and vision, and we've definitely seen both. For a guy getting 4th line minutes he's played very well. His biggest downfall IMO is that he gets the puck stolen to easy. Once he learns to use his size it will help a lot in that area. Next year will be huge for Ryan. Mainly due to the fact that he will most likely be counted on to be our 2nd line RW, unless of course Selanne decides to stay around another year.

We don't hate Oilers fans per se. We hate stupid or trollish Oilers fans.

He's not a power forward, he's even less of one than Penner. Think Joe Thornton. Puck possession playmaker.

He's not had NHL success because 1) he's still too weak. He gets knocked down or off the puck way too easily. 2) He doesn't have good positioning and anticipation to be where he needs to be to do much. That said, he's improved a lot since the beginning of the year 3) Carlyle works his rookies in nice and slow. Look at Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner's rookie years (and I mean the half year in Penner's case). Spent some time in the A, played like 8-10 minutes, crappy linemates. Ryan's not doing that bad compared to the other 3.

He has the hands and vision to be a star, maybe even an All-Star. And that's not scouting reports, he's shown both in the NHL. That said, I personally don't expect him to learn to think the game well enough to be anything more than a 2nd liner.

You've got to remember that the guy's barely 21 years old, and the main reason he has been in the AHL is because of Selanne and Perry. He's played fairly well since his latest call up, and played a very good game tonight. He's got incredible hands and while his skating isn't where he (or anyone) would like it to be, it's very obvious how much stronger he is on his skates compared to the beginning of the season. He's got great vision that will only improve with experience and is a good passer. His skating is definitely his biggest weakness at this point, and he's nothing special on defense. Sometimes he looks like a deadly scorer, and sometimes he looks like a dangerous playmaker, and other times he looks lost. Come next season he'll have a top six spot locked up, and I wouldn't be surprised if he put up 60 points.

It's funny to see how much his stock has fallen just because he's not an established player yet. All it took was Crosby and Ovechkin to dominate from the start and now people expect prospects to score 40 goals or 90 points straight out of juniors. Give these kids some time, people.

He's not a power forward, he's even less of one than Penner. Think Joe Thornton. Puck possession playmaker.

Think poor man's Joe Thornton...Doug Weight.

Think poor man's Joe Thornton...Doug Weight.
Yeah I forgot the word lite. Even his absolute "wildest dream" upside is much poorer than Thornton. And like I said I only expect him to become a 2nd liner, so I did mean the poor man's version.

I meant mostly in style. I picked Thornton because he's well known, but Weight's a great choice since Oiler fans should be acquainted with him.

Yeah I forgot the word lite. Even his absolute "wildest dream" upside is much poorer than Thornton. And like I said I only expect him to become a 2nd liner, so I did mean the poor man's version.

I meant mostly in style. I picked Thornton because he's well known, but Weight's a great choice since Oiler fans should be acquainted with him.

He will be a 1st liner, no doubt about it. His vision, shooting ability, and playmaking are incredible.

Take a look at the players getting drafted in that first round 2005, there are only a few players who have established themselves in the NHL at this point.

Ryan was expected to have a slow development at the time he was drafted. I still see the potential of a first line winger in him. Especielly with the Ducks left wing prospects right now, but that could change in this years draft.

I know Ryan plays right wing, but with Perry having that spot he will have to reschool himself to the left wing if he's gonna have a job on the first line.

i think he will be a 1st liner, but not for like 2 years and playing LW cuz perry has RW locked up for years if we resign him. his hands look good, puck possession looks strong, he is huge but not yet strong, and he obviouslly has a nice shot. if there was no number on his back half the time i would think its perry and not him out there.

I think he's coming along just fine. He has a very particular body-type and it's still taking him a while for his legs to grow with the rest of his body. Once he does he could end up being a more effective winger than Corey Perry. His hands and hockey sense are incredible. Confidence and leg strength are what remains in his development. We're lucky to get to progress a player as slowly as we are with Bobby. Look for him to be a force by the time he's around 23 I'd say.

Ryan is flying the same pattern as Perry and Getz (as aforementioned). The coaches see talent in Ryan to make the team at the beginning of the season, but he needed more seasoning. I wouldn't have minded if Ryan stayed in the "A" all year because there isn't a rush to his progress and he gets more playing time down there as opposed to limited minutes on the parent team.

Maybe next year, Ryan will see more day light a la Perry & Getz. Though, I would like to Ryan to skate faster with either Nieds brothers because for some reason Ryan makes Perry look like Perry skates pretty quick! :biglaugh:

Ryan is flying the same pattern as Perry and Getz (as aforementioned). The coaches see talent in Ryan to make the team at the beginning of the season, but he needed more seasoning. I wouldn't have minded if Ryan stayed in the "A" all year because there isn't a rush to his progress and he gets more playing time down there as opposed to limited minutes on the parent team.

Maybe next year, Ryan will see more day light a la Perry & Getz. Though, I would like to Ryan to skate faster with either Nieds brothers because for some reason Ryan makes Perry look like Perry skates pretty quick! :biglaugh:

Ryan is faster then Perry.

Ryan is faster then Perry.

That's debatable. But Corey has much, much better balance at this point. But the knock on Corey in his first season was he was easy to knock off the puck as well.

That's debatable. But Corey has much, much better balance at this point. But the knock on Corey in his first season was he was easy to knock off the puck as well.

No. Ryan has better balance at this point. I agree the speed is debatable but I would put money on Ryan.

But Corey has much, much better balance at this point.
I think you need to go watch some footage from 2 years ago. Perry would often get knocked off the puck by the blue line or a harsh look by a defenseman or the wind from someone breathing hard. Perry has come a long way since then and is one of my favorite players to watch. Ryan is miles ahead of Perry with this many games played in the NHL, IMO. I have no idea if he will improve as well as Perry but I hope he will.

We don't hate Oilers fans per se. We hate stupid or trollish Oilers fans.

He's not a power forward, he's even less of one than Penner. Think Joe Thornton. Puck possession playmaker.

He's not had NHL success because 1) he's still too weak. He gets knocked down or off the puck way too easily. 2) He doesn't have good positioning and anticipation to be where he needs to be to do much. That said, he's improved a lot since the beginning of the year 3) Carlyle works his rookies in nice and slow. Look at Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner's rookie years (and I mean the half year in Penner's case). Spent some time in the A, played like 8-10 minutes, crappy linemates. Ryan's not doing that bad compared to the other 3.

He has the hands and vision to be a star, maybe even an All-Star. And that's not scouting reports, he's shown both in the NHL. That said, I personally don't expect him to learn to think the game well enough to be anything more than a 2nd liner.
I disagree with the anticipation comment. The goal he scored vs the Kings was all about anticipating where the puck was going to be on the missed shot.

Kunitz and Weight really didn't help him out last game, that was the first game I really saw him control the puck well off the boards.

He tries to hit guys but you can tell it doesn't come naturally but if he can continue to gain strength in his legs and upper body he could become fairly decent at it.

From the beginning of the year, to now he has improved on the boards and defensively a ton.

He has the tools to be a top flight offensive player. He's got the deke/stickhandling ability to make goalies look bad, he has a great wrist shot and his reputation in juniors was that he was a very good playmaker.

If he can continue to improve his skating he can be a first line caliber player, that'll be the difference in him being a 2nd liner and possibly a 1st line all star talent imo..

I think you need to go watch some footage from 2 years ago. Perry would often get knocked off the puck by the blue line or a harsh look by a defenseman or the wind from someone breathing hard. Perry has come a long way since then and is one of my favorite players to watch. Ryan is miles ahead of Perry with this many games played in the NHL, IMO. I have no idea if he will improve as well as Perry but I hope he will.

couldnt agree with you more. i think people(mostly outsiders) also underestimate ryan and think he should already be producing at the NHL level. most people dont understamd that.he is following the exact pattern that was used for getzlaf and perry.

No. Ryan has better balance at this point. I agree the speed is debatable but I would put money on Ryan.

I'm the biggest Bobby Ryan supporter there is and I'm telling you this isn't true. Corey does a great job now staying on his skates, Bobby does not. It's not even close. They have similar skating styles but the fact of the matter is Bobby is carrying at least 20 extra pounds of upper-body weight compared to Corey. It falls down a lot, that isn't a mystery. But he'll get stronger and he could be a better skater than Corey and thus a better player.

I'm the biggest Bobby Ryan supporter there is and I'm telling you this isn't true. Corey does a great job now staying on his skates, Bobby does not. It's not even close. They have similar skating styles but the fact of the matter is Bobby is carrying at least 20 extra pounds of upper-body weight compared to Corey. It falls down a lot, that isn't a mystery. But he'll get stronger and he could be a better skater than Corey and thus a better player.

I think he was comparing Ryan and Perry at this point in their careers (young rookies), in which case Ryan's skating and balance is much better than where Perry's was in '05/'06. Even comparing them right now, I think it's debatable. Some more lower body strength and I think Ryan can be a force with the puck a la Getzlaf.

Bobby Ryan and Corry Perry are very similar talents - skating, hands, vision. The one difference being Ryan is bulkier. You guys will be laughing if you keep these two and Getzlaf on the team 4 years from now.

Nothing wrong with Ryan spending a year in the AHL. It's competely normal anyone watching him in junior could see that this was the best route for him.

Only mildly related, but I belatedly came across this interview with Ryan. http://sportsreport.freedomblogging.com/2008/03/27/five-questions-with-bobby-ryan/

It looks like he too agrees that http://www.geocities.com/robertlobel/PALHSONGOD.jpg. As a pregame ritual, he said "I always touch (Samuel Pahlsson’s) Duck crest. And as long as I touch it, the crest, before every period, I am OK. I don’t know how that Ducks crest thing started. I did something similar in juniors, and then ever since then it has just continued."

No way he turns out to be as good a Getzlaf and Perry. Look at AHL stats...Ryan is a point a game player. So was Ryan Shannon. Getzlaf and Perry were both well above a point per game in the AHL, and they didn't play that many AHL games.

Ryan's a Tin Man. Getzlaf is the reincarnation of Messier, and Perry is a rat who will do anything to win. Realistic upside? Third liner PP specialist.

Getzlaf and Perry were both well above a point per game in the AHL, and they didn't play that many AHL games.

Getzlaf and Perry had each other, along with Dustin Penner and Chris Kunitz on that 04-05 Cincinnati team. Who does Ryan have, Drew Miller? All that matters is that Ryan has proven he can play in the NHL in his latest call up.

I think you might be a bit impatient. I swear the the Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Phaneuf and Price explosion is getting people to forget how long it takes most guys to come through the junior, ncaa, euro pro and minor league systems.

He doesn't look very fast to me but he has very good balance. He has a nice of hands that should allow him to do some nice work down low on the power play and nice playmaking skills that couple well with a willingness to play strong along the boards.

I don't think he is going to be a 90-point guy or anything nuts and there's a big dropoff from Sid to him but does that mean he is a weak player or behind schedule? No.

Funny story, probably the only time I have seen a serious confrontation between fans at a Ducks game was a group of Edmonton fans sitting in the top deck of the game where the Oilers eliminated Anaheim in '06. Some Edmonton fans had come down for the game and hung a banner in their section (a rather modest one). Some 45+ bald, skinny white guy who had too many Budweisers comes up and tries to rip down the banner. It was hysterical, here is this idiot challenging a full section of people up a steep flight of stairs. Of course this coincides with me coming up and asking them a few questions (I was neutral, I just live here) and I have to stop this moron from getting himself killed, for which I get the smell of beer and a near fall down the stairs. The Edmonton fans were cool and the security eventually told the dummy to go back downstairs.

Getzlaf and Perry had each other, along with Dustin Penner and Chris Kunitz on that 04-05 Cincinnati team. Who does Ryan have, Drew Miller? All that matters is that Ryan has proven he can play in the NHL in his latest call up.

He's not playing eith chumps. He's got Ebbett, King, Miller, Platt, and Salcido. Sure, not Kunitz, Perry and Penner, but still pretty good.

Ebbet, King, Miller and Platt are on pretty much nobody's radar to make the NHL. Maybe Miller, but not as an offensive talent. Ryan's situation is much different.

Besides, AHL production is a crappy indicator of NHL production.

He's not playing eith chumps. He's got Ebbett, King, Miller, Platt, and Salcido. Sure, not Kunitz, Perry and Penner, but still pretty good.

Those guys are AHL-type stud players. They might turn into marginal NHLers. Perry, Penner and Kunitz are solid to awesome NHL players. Plus you can't compare players purely on AHL numbers. I use my eyes and I can tell you Bobby is as solid a player as Perry was in his rookie year. (This last statement was directed more toward Silver)

Plus you can't compare players purely on AHL numbers.

QFT. Jason Krog is just about the best example of how AHL sucess means absolutely nothing when you get to the NHL. Krog has 349 points in 294 AHL games, but has just 58 in 198 NHL games. The NHL is a completely different animal than the AHL, and while they may be helpful in your assessment of a player, AHL stats can be seriously misleading.

To be fair to Krog, he's kind of a different situation. It's not like he lit up the AHL and proved unable to translate the offense to the NHL. He did well but not spectacular in the AHL (~ppg), then came to the NHL and didn't score. Only upon being sent back to the AHL, at the age of 31, did he start to tear up the A. He's like a guy that couldn't score in the NHL, then found his niche as a minor league guy.

Those guys are AHL-type stud players. They might turn into marginal NHLers. Perry, Penner and Kunitz are solid to awesome NHL players. Plus you can't compare players purely on AHL numbers. I use my eyes and I can tell you Bobby is as solid a player as Perry was in his rookie year. (This last statement was directed more toward Silver)

I'm not saying they are Getzlaf, Perry, Kunitz status. But it's not like Bobby Ryan is surrounded by chumps.

I'm not saying they are Getzlaf, Perry, Kunitz status. But it's not like Bobby Ryan is surrounded by chumps.

True. But I still feel all of those guys are in Ryan Shannon mold.