Thoughts of Anaheim fans on Pronger's transgressions

As there's the main board crap fest on Pronger, I think it'd be interesting to know what other Anaheim fans think of his various suspendable actions.

The 3 I can think of are the 2 in the playoffs and this stomp. Feel free to add any other incidents you can think of.

Holmstrom: The worst one in my opinion. On one hand, Pronger wasn't meaning to crush Holmstrom head first into the boards. That happened because of Rob's hit. On the other hand, even without Rob's hit, Pronger crosschecked him high, and from behind. So he did mean to do something illegal anyways. Deserved the suspension because of the dirtiness. Holmstrom wasn't injured though, so it shouldn't be a long suspension. The 1 game was about right, maybe it should have been 2 (that's including the 1 playoff game = 2 reg season games deduction).

McAmmond: Didn't seem malicious like everyone claims. The way I see it, Pronger was going to be beaten wide, and he made a stupid move to try to interfere with McAmmond. But he was slow, and instead of holding the arm out and grabbing/impeding him he ends up popping him in the noggin. Again, totally deserving of the suspension because it was a stupid play, and because of injury. Although not much extra for injury because McAmmond is easily concussed (ie, it might not have been an injury for a normal player).

Kesler: Now I missed the game, so I have no idea what circumstances lead up to this incident. All I can say is that video is completely inconclusive. It sort of looks to me like he was 1st trying to shake him off, but then the 2nd one... :dunno: It's panning away, you can't tell anything. Unlike all the people who I think are being biased either because they hate Pronger or because of the thread title or TSN article (mentioning a "stomp," mentioning his previous suspensions, mentioning Simon, only getting a quote from Kesler, adding the phrase "appeared to deliberately step on him"... since when did TSN become Fox News?), I just can't make a conclusion out of that video. If pressed I'd lean toward it seemed accidental, but I would never really claim that. Although maybe other people are seeing it more clearly from TV, since youtube has crappy resolution. But I just don't see enough to get any kind of suspension.

While I don't want to make any conclusions about the incident, and am not sure there's enough evidence for disciplinary measures, I would like to add a big HAha to all the haters freaking out.

The 2nd video pretty much shows he did it on purpose. He has a thing for kesler for some reason....my thoughts are pretty much what I thought of Pronger before: Dirty mother ****er, hard to play against, everyone would love him on their team. It didnt look like he stomped hard enough to actually hurt the guy, but he did do it on purpose, probably because Kesler stupidly decided to wrap his legs around Pronger.

Whatevs, soak in the hate everyone, soak it in.

OK, let me get to the 2nd video. I'm still on post 315. So much whining to catch up on.

OK, let me get to the 2nd video. I'm still on post 315. So much whining to catch up on.

Just skip to like post 700. Its the same old shtick anyway.

Here's the higher resolution clearer version. When I saw the first video I thought it was completely inconclusive. This one leaves no doubt, at least in my eyes. There was clear intent to injure on this. Not nearly as bad as the Simon thing though because it was a "heat of the moment" pile up. But he probably deserved a couple of games. As to the original question on his transgressions, I say so what. Pronger plays on the edge and is a bit of a psycho at times but that just adds another dimension to his mystic:naughty::naughty:

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Just a note guys. I am going to watch this thread very carefully. Keep it on the topic. No personal bashing for peoples opinions. I am going to be very aggressive with my handing out of infractions on this one as it is set up to not be pretty.

Prof. Frink

Just a note guys. I am going to watch this thread very carefully. Keep it on the topic. No personal bashing for peoples opinions. I am going to be very aggressive with my handing out of infractions on this one as it is set up to not be pretty.

Prof. Frink

Most of the ammo is being used up on the main board, I doubt this one will get out of hand.

No wants to comment on the other suspensions? I actually am curious to hear people's takes.

OK, why did it take like an entire day to find that 2nd angle? Did the NHL have that angle? If they didn't when deciding he wouldn't get any suspension, that's really the saddest part of all this.

Yeah that looks pretty damn intentional. Kind of a "stop grabbing my leg... take that!" kind of thing. Teach me to make any comments without reading all like 1000 posts first. I'd have expected a good 10-15 games.

I don't know how Pronger gets his jersey on over his angel wings.

I was going to make a Jesus joke here but I don't want to make crucified jokes so close to Easter and all.

Pronger doesn't even approach Steve Downie in terms of dirty play. Let's get him kicked out of the league before we start complaining about some elbow that were thrown almost below shoulder height while both players are pretty much upright.

I don't know which Kesler hit you're talking about, but if its the Kesler poke after a goal, I guess it was dirty, but that was also the funniest thing I've seen all year so I have a hard time criticizing that decision.

It was just so funny I can't help but feel happy when I see that, so it was clearly worth it. :sarcasm:

It is what it is.

No wants to comment on the other suspensions? I actually am curious to hear people's takes.

A major common denominator in many of Pronger's transgressions is that the sin is multiplied, if not caused by his sheer size. The Holmstrom hit is a case in point. If Niedermeyer doesn't hit Holmstrom, then Pronger's hit just become a simple shoulder check. Instead, Holmstrom gets stood up by Niedermeyer and then the laws of physics conspire against Pronger (a body in motion tends to stay in motion) and he plants Holmstrom high. The McAmmond elbow is part of the same script. He tries to bump McAmmond off the rush and his elbow rides up McAmmond's shoulder as he's racing into the zone and plants him square in the face. If Joe Thronton is the one driving the zone, Pronger's elbow hits him in the arm or chest and no foul. I think one could have made a better case earlier in Pronger's career that his stick induced suspensions were malicious. But I think the ones you have listed with the exception of the most recent Kessler incident are more a function of Pronger's gangly size than anything else.

I had a big old thing typed up but lost it. Stupid laptop.

The common thread running through these three incidents is that Pronger is recklessly stupid when he loses his temper. Hard, dirty, unnecessary shot to Holmstrom (which I loved), the oh-no-you-don't elbow to McAmmond when Pronger's little reptilian brain thought he might get beaten, and now this. Both McAmmond/Holmstrom were basically worst-case scenarios for the victims. Lucky for everyone this time there were no repercussions.

So yeah, Pronger's a dangerous idiot with a meanstreak and the muscle to do a lot of damage. I made no secret of the fact that I hated Pronger when we got him and that hasn't changed. This is one thing that the mass of drooling labia that populate these boards got right. Pronger's a hateful guy.

Didn't like Pronger before, I knew he was a dirty player ... and nothing's changed. But like I said in another thread about the "dirty Ducks," no one ever shed any tears for us when we were a soft team getting routinely cheapshotted. So I'm not going to feel bad to be on the other side of things.

Didn't like Pronger before, I knew he was a dirty player ... and nothing's changed. But like I said in another thread about the "dirty Ducks," no one ever shed any tears for us when we were a soft team getting routinely cheapshotted. So I'm not going to feel bad to be on the other side of things.
Pretty much. If there's going to be a dirty weapon in play, it may as well be us using it.

I love Pronger. Did before, do now.

Don't wrap your legs around a guy trying to skate away. That most likely was the saving grace for CP on this one, the fact that Kesler was trying to tie him up with his feet.

If corey perry was trying to slew foot a guy and the guy did what CP did, I wouldn't care. That's your funeral.

Reminds me of when Koivu got wacked by Ohlund. Don't start stuff. Even though Ohlund did get 4 games, it was pretty lenient...

I love Pronger, simply because of the whining he generates on the mainboard.

What a freakin dangerous play. Think of it this way. Place a sharpend blade on your calf and ask someone to playfully stomp on it. Pronger is the king of the douches.

Shy.

Have always loved Pronger, always will. Pronger doesn't whine when people take cheapshots at him, so if you are willing to give it, you better be willing to take it. Obviously you don't want to cross the line of ending a guys career, but we all know what a P.O.S Kesler can be. He crosschecked Marchant from behind, do we go out making all sorts of whinefests?..no because hockey is a tough game.

The ultimate hypocrisy to me is the fans of so called 'traditional' markets almost always being the first ones to whine and complain about tough hockey, I hope in 50 years that isn't me..

Pronger may not be out of the woods quite yet on the Kessler stomp:

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/mckenzie/?id=231994

Given that McKenzie is widely regarded as a sober-minded NHL Analyst and has changed his stance on the stomp incident, I think the NHL may be inclined to re-review this given the new evidence and the growing drumbeat of outrage.

The 2nd video pretty much shows he did it on purpose.
I just don't see that... not definitively anyway. I see Pronger off balance (somewhat to be expected when a guy is on skates and trying to free his leg from another guy holding it) and pushing his leg down. What I am not sure about is whether Pronger was pushing his leg down to "stomp" on another player or just in a natural reaction to trying to regain his balance.

The 2nd video leaves me just as much in doubt as the 1st video and seeing it live.

I think it looks like Pronger is trying to put his skate down, and it looks like he tries to move it away from Kessler's leg (but catches a little of it on accident).

Its also really hard to tell how hard Pronger pushed down. I mean, putting your leg underneath someone's skate while you try to wrap them up is not wise... Don't Pronger's skate own some sort of realestate on the ice which they occupy?

I go back to watching Corey Perry getting crosschecked over and over and over again and having the refs call nothing. This Pronger skate play did not look as dangerous as half the stuff that goes on in a hockey game.

If Pronger had nailed Smyth into the boards (instead of Johnson doing it), there would be a 500 page post on how Pronger intentionally tried to kill Smyth.

I'm not sure exactly how the equipment is arranged, but isn't there shin guards there? How far do they go around the leg, I would imagine they cover the front and some of the side of your leg?

Anyway, is this really any worse than getting into a fight and trying to put a guys nose on the back of his head? Or going into a corner full speed knowing there is Kunitz or Dustin Brown bearing down on you and you're going to get smashed.

Or is this just a moral thing where you never step on someone or use your skate as a weapon? Code of conduct type thing?

I can see all points of view, the "get off me" type of motion and the "intentional", nothing to me was accidental.

Meh, the league needs to do what it needs to do.

Suck it up and be a man and accept your punishment if in fact you did something wrong in the eyes of the decision makers.

That second video is pretty damning. You can argue the first time he brought his skate down on Kesler that it was accidental, but the second? I agree that it was more of a pissed off "Get off me" type action and he was not trying to slice off a leg or anything (I thought the same of Simon's stomp) but the fact is there is a major artery in your leg and we have seen two players almost die on the ice from accidental nicks to major arteries, one even this year. Bringing your skate down on a calf is much more dangerous than bringing it down on a skate. The league decided to come down hard on Simon, who has a similar history to Pronger. It's hard for me to understand how one gets 30 games and the other nothing. Did the NHL not have access to the 2nd video? It seems like they would have access to all of them from the start?

Campbell's statement after handing down the thirty-day suspension on Simon:

Several factors were considered in imposing the longest suspension in NHL history for an on-ice incident. While it was fortunate there was no serious injury to Mr. Ruutu as a result of Simon’s action, the deliberate act of kicking an opponent with an exposed skate blade, especially where the opponent is in a vulnerable position, is and always has been a repugnant and totally unacceptable act in the game of hockey.

“In addition, while the act itself was extremely dangerous, the fact that this is the eighth incident requiring the imposition of supplementary discipline on Simon compelled me to impose a very severe penalty in this case. When a player repeatedly evidences the lack of ability to control his actions and conducts himself in total disregard of the rules, as well the health and safety of other players on the ice, each subsequent incident is deserving of enhanced scrutiny and more severe discipline. This response serves not only the purpose of imposing appropriate punishment for the player involved, but also the purpose of deterring the player and all other players from engaging in similar conduct in the future - hopefully creating a safer long-term work environment for all NHL players.

I dont think he meant it. He is looking at the puck. Tries to put his skate down theres a leg in the way, he tries again and skates away.

Not deliberate IMO

I think it was meant as a "get the hell off of me" and ended up horribly wrong. I don't think anybody (except maybe Chris Simon) goes seeking players to stomp on them in a bladed boot. It looks like that's what ended up happening in the heat of the moment, but if all we listened to were the whiners on the main board, you'd swear it was worse than the Bertuzzi-Moore incident (with premeditation and everything).

I absolutely love how everybody's joining arms to fight the good fight on the main board... "let's email Colin Campbell", "the NHL is a joke", "Burke cheats his way out again"... You know all of these people calling the NHL a joke are the same ones who will continue to be glued to their television sets for the next three months cheering and jeering at the TV while the playoffs are taking place.

It's also hard not to notice that the bulk of fans that are getting all bent out of shape are Vancouver's, Detroit's, Ottawa's, LA's, Edmonton's... notice a theme there? :sarcasm:

Although I'm mystified by the Devils fans who are accusing Burke of manipulating the situation when their general manager is arguably the most influential behind-the-scenes. (Also lol'ing at the Wings fans who are crying about us being dirty.. some things never change.)

Either way, a suspension would surely have been justified, but as it is (right now) there has been no discipline. As a Ducks fan, I'm fine with that (even if it makes me amoral not to apologize and beg for forgiveness at the feet of the hockey gods).

I dont think he meant it. He is looking at the puck. Tries to put his skate down theres a leg in the way, he tries again and skates away.

Not deliberate IMO
Have you looked at the second video? Come on... you are being pretty silly. The puck is already out of the zone and he is pretty clearly looking down:
http://hfboards.com/imagehosting/1166747da2eed605f3.jpg

I gotta say I hate Pronger, but I would have done the same thing to Kessler if he was trying to put a leg lock on me. This is one time I agree that he didn't deserve a punishment of any sort. But in the end my avatar says it best.....

But in the end my avatar says it best.....

Well, I guess it's OK for Jesus to hate Pronger since we have God on our team already. ;)

Just one more observation to add, but the overblown reaction (initially, before the second video was released) reminds me of that no-goal call in the Ducks/Wings game last month- in the sense that if the media grabs hold of something and spins it before all the facts are known, people are that much more likely to jump on.

Remember the big stink Pierre McGuire made about how "brutal" that call was in Detroit? Didn't take long for people to run with that and then that descended into denigrating remarks about Ducks fans, players and management. If we isolate the time before the second video was released, everybody saw TSN's headline and the word "stomp", and knowing it was Pronger, nearly broke their necks jumping to conclusions.

Now that the second, more clear video is out, it's less debatable of course, but my issue is how hastily people jump to foolish conclusions based on half-baked logic and mob mentality. Even worse, when that second video did come out, people were tripping over themselves to be the first to say "told you so Ducks fans!!! lololol" and nobody seemed to realize that most of us agreed and had just wanted to wait for more tangible proof.

I'd say winning another Cup would finally silence things for the summer, but I get this eerie feeling that such an event would actually end up crashing the HF servers due to the mass amounts of angry threads. Only one way to find out, and that's to win the Cup again. :D

The league decided to come down hard on Simon, who has a similar history to Pronger.

Pronger has never done anything like Simon's two handed baseball swing with his stick into another players chin. I am not saying Pronger is anything near a Lady Byng player, he does have a bit of a nasty side to his game, but to compare his history to Simon's is silly.

It's also hard not to notice that the bulk of fans that are getting all bent out of shape are Vancouver's, Detroit's, Ottawa's, LA's, Edmonton's... notice a theme there?
Absolutely... I would not care near as much if it were not a star player on a team the Red Wings are likely going to be facing in the playoffs. That, and I have despised Pronger since his Blues days. I am sick of him dangerously going after our players. He got his comeuppance back when he tried to take out Yzerman's bad knee in the playoffs and ended up tearing his own ACL, but since then he has gotten away with a heck of a lot. So yes, I will admit personal bias affecting my interest in this specific altercation.

Also lol'ing at the Wings fans who are crying about us being dirty.. some things never change.
Are you somehow implying that in reality, it is the Wings who are the dirty cheap-shot artists of the NHL? Huh? Where did that one come from?

Either way, a suspension would surely have been justified, but as it is (right now) there has been no discipline. As a Ducks fan, I'm fine with that (even if it makes me amoral not to apologize and beg for forgiveness at the feet of the hockey gods).
Fair enough... I certainly do not expect Ducks fans to be pounding at Campbell's doors demanding a suspension :) If someone like Maltby did the same (really do not see it happening) and got away with it I would not be rnating and raving, but I certainly would not deny he deserved a suspension for it (as many here are).

But to try and look at it completey objectively, it is very dangerous and I never want to see a hockey player die out there from a slashed artery... even Pronger. The NHL needs to come down strong on this, just like it did with Simon.

I gotta say I hate Pronger, but I would have done the same thing to Kessler if he was trying to put a leg lock on me. This is one time I agree that he didn't deserve a punishment of any sort.
Ok, that's pretty idiotic. So how do the Canucks get Pronger back for stomping on one of their players? Maybe someone should shank him in the middle of a scrum?

Are you somehow implying that in reality, it is the Wings who are the dirty cheap-shot artists of the NHL? Huh? Where did that one come from?
Well they did have Bertuzzi on their team last year....oh wait nm.

He is implying the Wings and Wing fans whine, moan, and ***** all the time about everything.

Which I always find funny since I think they are one of the dirtiest teams in the league...oh not in a violent sort of way... but in an interference/hook/holding sort of way that they always get away with.

Pronger has never done anything like Simon's two handed baseball swing with his stick into another players chin. I am not saying Pronger is anything near a Lady Byng player, he does have a bit of a nasty side to his game, but to compare his history to Simon's is silly.
Heh... only twice :)

Chris Pronger suspension history

• 1995: The league suspended Pronger, then with the St. Louis Blues, for four games after he hit Capitals forward Pat Peake in the throat with a stick during a Oct. 29 game at the Kiel Center. Brian Burke, the NHL's director of hockey operations at the time, held a hearing with Pronger, Blues GM and coach Mike Keenan, Pronger's agent and a NHL Players' Association rep. Peake suffered a fractured thyroid cartilage and was expected to miss four weeks at the time of the hit.

• 1998: Pronger, still with the Blues, was suspended for four games for slashing Phoenix's Jeremy Roenick on Dec. 17, 1998. Pronger drew a match penalty when he took a swing at Roenick's helmet. Colin Campbell, the NHL senior vice president and director of hockey operations, ruled that Pronger was attempting to injure Roenick in an "extremely reckless and dangerous manner."

• 2001: Pronger was suspended without pay for one game after leaving the bench and instigating a fight with the Kings' Kelly Buchberger during an Oct. 11, 2000 game. Blues winger Pavol Demitra suffered a broken nose when Buchberger hit him with an elbow during the second period. That hit provoked Pronger to leave the bench.

• 2002: Pronger received a two-game suspension without pay for cross-checking Stars forward Brenden Morrow in an April 3 game. The suspension cost Pronger $231,707.32 in salary. The cross-check left Morrow bleeding near one of his eyes. St. Louis beat Dallas 2-1 in overtime.

• 2004: Pronger, still with St. Louis, was suspended one game without pay for kicking Calgary's Ville Nieminen during a March 14 game. Pronger kicked Nieminen with 9:23 gone in the first period, but there was no penalty on the play. The suspension came as St. Louis was making a late push for the playoffs. The Blues were later ousted in the first round.

• 2007: Pronger, in his first postseason with the Ducks, was suspended one game for his hit on Detroit's Tomas Holmstrom in Game 3 of the Western Conference finals on May 15. Pronger and Rob Niedermayer drove Holmstrom into the glass from behind midway through the second period. The hit knocked off Holmstrom's helmet and left him on the ice with a cut to his forehead. Holmstrom did return to the game. Niedermayer received a five-minute boarding penalty and a game misconduct. Pronger was not penalized. Replays apparently showed Pronger hitting Holmstrom in the head with his elbows, leading the NHL to review the incident.

• 2007: Pronger was suspended one game for his blow to the head of Ottawa's Dean McAmmond in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup finals. McAmmond was struck as he skated with the puck toward the Ducks net. He did a spin, fell backward, struck his head on the ice, and slid into the corner in the Anaheim zone at 2:01 of the third period. McAmmond was briefly knocked out and left the ice looking woozy after several minutes of on-ice attention.

Are you somehow implying that in reality, it is the Wings who are the dirty cheap-shot artists of the NHL? Huh? Where did that one come from?

He is implying the Wings and Wing fans whine, moan, and ***** all the time about everything.

Basically.

And of course you'd hypothetically state that Maltby sould be suspended if he pulled a similar, but there's two reasons for that. First off, he means nothing to the Wings compared to what Pronger means to the Ducks. Secondly, it hasn't happened, so you don't know what you'd do in that situation until it does. Finally, I still don't see where there's more that one or two isolated fans saying he didn't deserve something. If people would actually read the posts we made on the main board, they would see that. To make matters worse, now everybody's attacks are just getting worse since that new video came out, when all we actually did in the first place is say "we'd like some more evidence before handing down judgment." What's wrong with doing that, again?

It's a little funny that depending on what point is being argued, either nobody sees it in a favorable light (so we're in the extreme minority to even ask for more proof), but when it comes time to generalize, Ducks fans are burned at the stake because we ALL support dirty players that should be banned from the NHL, etc.

Good times.

Heh... only twice :)
Have you seen those hits and compared them to what Simon did?

He is implying the Wings and Wing fans whine, moan, and ***** all the time about everything.

Which I always find funny since I think they are one of the dirtiest teams in the league...oh not in a violent sort of way... but in an interference/hook/holding sort of way that they always get away with.
Hmmm... I'll go ahead and plead guilty. Just not sure if they complain any more than other cities where hockey is popular, though.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find other teams or fans of the NHL single out the Red Wings as one of the dirtiest teams in the NHL. Violent or not.

I usually read in other rags how they have a classy organization and how well they are respected by other players, coaches and GMs in the league.

To me it definitely looks like Pronger was trying to send a message with his foot, and saying... that's what happens if you try to trip me with your legs. Basically reminding him that there are sharp things on the end of his foot. I think it was a stupid thing to do by both of them... If he ultimately gets suspended for it, then so be it.

Personally, I like that Pronger is a bit of a "loose cannon", as it's entertaining, and helps us keep our reputation as a dirty team. It also makes him more of a force on the ice if the other team is afraid of the repercussions of their stupid S.

I think he probably deserved his previous suspensions as well. Were they a result of "Pronger Physics" (as we were calling them at the time)? Probably, but the League has to keep a consistent rule, or at least a media-manipulatable version of consistency.

Have you seen those hits and compared them to what Simon did?
You have the two players tied with the most suspensions in the league. Two similar incidents and one gets a 30 game suspension (partly because of his history) and the other gets nothing.

I'll even give you that Simon's 7 suspensions were worse than Pronger's 7 suspensions... ok. So should Pronger have only gotten 25 games?

I love Pronger. Did before, do now.

Don't wrap your legs around a guy trying to skate away. That most likely was the saving grace for CP on this one, the fact that Kesler was trying to tie him up with his feet.

If corey perry was trying to slew foot a guy and the guy did what CP did, I wouldn't care. That's your funeral.

Reminds me of when Koivu got wacked by Ohlund. Don't start stuff. Even though Ohlund did get 4 games, it was pretty lenient...

I agree, there was no suspension because of what Kesler was doing. He was trying to tie up Pronger with his legs, and Pronger simply 'stomped' in an effort to get free. That is why there is no suspension IMO.

As was mentioned above, Pronger's no threat to take the Lady Bing trophy, but I think the outrage is as much about his reputation as it is about what he did or did not do to Kessler.

I'm not defending the misconduct (if you want to call it that), but we all know this kind of stuff happens all the time. Sometimes it's called a penalty, sometimes it goes unseen and unpunished. But this time -- because it was perpetrated by The Evil SOB Chris Pronger -- people won't be satisfied until they see his bloody head on a fence post.

Between Bertuzzi and Pronger, the Ducks are an easy target for hatred from the entire NHL fan base, especially the knuckleheads who know damn well they'd be THRILLED to have Pronger wearing their team's sweater.

You have the two players tied with the most suspensions in the league. Two similar incidents and one gets a 30 game suspension (partly because of his history) and the other gets nothing.

I'll even give you that Simon's 7 suspensions were worse than Pronger's 7 suspensions... ok. So should Pronger have only gotten 25 games?
First off, Pronger to me looks off balance in the video and I am not sure he intended to "stomp" on his leg or if he was just trying to regain his balance and stepped on him.

Secondly, Pronger is not only a few games back from a 25 game suspension like Simon was. This is the real reason for the severity of the 30 game suspension, not the act of stomping itself.

Thirdly, there are very very few suspensions given out when players are not injured.

That said, I would not be against a suspension for Pronger for this as the league needs to be clear that the skate should never be used as a weapon, it is far more lethal then a fist.

Hmmm... I'll go ahead and plead guilty. Just not sure if they complain any more than other cities where hockey is popular, though.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find other teams or fans of the NHL single out the Red Wings as one of the dirtiest teams in the NHL. Violent or not.

I usually read in other rags how they have a classy organization and how well they are respected by other players, coaches and GMs in the league.
Ya, Detroit whines more then any other city...although Ottawa and Edmonton are are close. Every legal hit is a travesty and the Ducks only with by cheating... blah blah blah.

Don't get me wrong, I think the rags are a great organization....even if I do hate them.

The interference/hooking/holding thing is brilliant hockey IMO (no I am not advocating going back to the clutch and grab hockey era, just saying they way Detroit does it today is effective). They do it enough to slow down teams in the neutral zone and take them out of their game but not enough to get a ton of penalties with it. It is well played hockey by a well coached team and I wish the Ducks did it better. The Ducks use a similar tactic of pushing the boundaries of the rules...but in a more physical way.

I don't think it was deliberate, either. He's trying to get his foot out of there and you see him lift it right away when it came down on Kesler's calf.

I thought the Holmstrom hit was reckless, but not malicious. The McAmmond clothesline was either really stupid or really malicious. I wouldn't rule either out.

Overall, though, I think his "rep" is really much ado about nothing. It's a handful of isolated incidents, and while he does lose his temper, he mostly keeps it under control.

It is well played hockey by a well coached team and I wish the Ducks did it better. The Ducks use a similar tactic of pushing the boundaries of the rules...but in a more physical way.
Ok. Agreed... I don't think there is anything wrong with "pushing it", knowing you are probably going to get away with a lot more than you get called for. Though if what you say is the case, the Red Wings are heck of a lot better at it than the Ducks -- least penalized team in the NHL vs the most.

Stomping on people is pretty awful though, especially from guys with histories like Simon and Pronger. I understand penalties get missed all the time, but they review actions worthy of suspensions and the tape clearly shows one. In fact, I was just looking at the Simon tape again and Pronger's is easily worse. Calf vs. skate as well as more force coming behind it. Harder stomp on a more vulnerable area. You could argue Simon's was just as "inadvertant" as Pronger's... even though Pronger has not only one, but two contacts.

And Ruutu is way more of a "deserving" target than Kesler. But the NHL set a precadent with Simon and I really do not understand why Pronger gets off scott-free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt5rBWarx6A --- Pronger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKeVb_G-PI --- Simon

I didn't even bother to try to jump into the thread on the main board, it isn't worth trying to talk to some of those people. I have never been a Pronger fan. I was happy when the team got him only in the sense of what he could do to help our team defensively. I never liked the descision to make him team captain, but I don't make those descisions. I do think he tends to get carried away on the ice with how he reacts to certain situations. I don't agree with what he did and I do think he should have been suspended for it.

It's just so tiring reading about how the Ducks were "handed" the Stanley Cup by the NHL. No one has ever had a good answer as to how it is that the team that had the most penalty minutes in the league and had a player suspended twice during the playoffs was handed anything. I love my team, I do not always like what some of the players do, but I'm not going to stop supporting them because of it. I'm proud to be a Ducks fan.

" prongers gonna get it " :naughty:

Ok. Agreed... I don't think there is anything wrong with "pushing it", knowing you are probably going to get away with a lot more than you get called for. Though if what you say is the case, the Red Wings are heck of a lot better at it than the Ducks -- least penalized team in the NHL vs the most.
I agree with you there, and it is a skill to do it well. But now remember all the crying that the refs are always against the Red Wings and for the Ducks? and the Ducks have the most TSH and the rags have the least...ya, we do think they whine a lot.

Stomping on people is pretty awful though, especially from guys with histories like Simon and Pronger. I understand penalties get missed all the time, but they review actions worthy of suspensions and the tape clearly shows one. In fact, I was just looking at the Simon tape again and Pronger's is easily worse. Calf vs. skate as well as more force coming behind it. You could argue Simon's was just as "inadvertant" as Pronger's... even though Pronger has not only one, but two contacts.

And Ruutu is way more of a "deserving" target than Kesler. But the NHL set a precadent with Simon and I really do not understand why Pronger gets off scott-free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt5rBWarx6A --- Pronger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKeVb_G-PI --- Simon
Simon slew footed a guy then stomped on his foot while the puck was dead.

Kesler fell when Pronger checked him, Kesler then tries a leg lock on Pronger who tries to get out of it. Pronger either then stomps on him or steps on him to try and regain his balance (either are possible to me).

...yep, Pronger's is definitely more vicious and far worse and it was so brutal Kesler never missed a shift also!!!

BTW, do you remember in the SCF last year when Pronger got suspended for hitting McAmmond. In the same game Neil took about 5 strides, jumped and left his feet, lead elbow first....and barely missed a ducking McDonald. The league said it could not suspend Neil for it since you can not suspended based on intent-to-injure of a hit that never hurt anyone. This is the same situation with Pronger here, the intent is vague and no one got hurt.

But now remember all the crying that the refs are always against the Red Wings and for the Ducks?
I am sure there might be fans who think that, but it is ridiculous... as well as the whole conspiracy theory of handing the Ducks the Stanley Cup.

But there is a point to the league coming down hard on marginal players to make statement, while slapping super stars on wrist.

BTW, do you remember in the SCF last year when Pronger got suspended for hitting McAmmond. In the same game Neil took about 5 strides, jumped and left his feet, lead elbow first....and barely missed a ducking McDonald. The league said it could not suspend Neil for it since you can not suspended based on intent-to-injure of a hit that never hurt anyone. This is the same situation with Pronger here, the intent is vague and no one got hurt.
Apples to oranges - one has contact and the other does not. We have very similar incidents (apples to apples) here... intent is vague and no one got hurt but the stomping is evident. The league set the bar for Simon's actions... why the double-standard to Pronger?

The leg lock is a red herring. Who cares? Holds happen all the time in hockey but that does not excuse bringing a razor blade down on them.

The leg lock is a red herring. Who cares? Holds happen all the time in hockey but that does not excuse bringing a razor blade down on them.

Happens all the time?? How long have you been following hockey?

Don't see how the NHL cannot suspend him after the 30 games they gave Simon.

What Pronger did doesn't warrant 30 games, but there has to be some kind of 5 - 10 game suspension for that, or Campbell is a joke.

Happens all the time?? How long have you been following hockey?
Since 1980. You don't think holds happen all the time in hockey? Why did they ever bother making it a minor penalty then?

Are you serious?

The McAmmond clothesline was either really stupid or really malicious. I wouldn't rule either out.

I think for Pronger we can combine them and just agree that it was "stupilicious". Sounds about right..

I didn't even bother to try to jump into the thread on the main board, it isn't worth trying to talk to some of those people.

Good on you, although you have to admit it's funny that a few people (one in particular) are calling out and implying that our perceived absence in that thread vindicates their hatred for the Ducks (whom this one person hates because he is "moral" - btw, props to whoever coined 'Moral Mary' in that thread - despite living in the "Ducks market" of LA... who knew people from LA hated the Ducks? :sarcasm:)

The leg lock is a red herring. Who cares? Holds happen all the time in hockey but that does not excuse bringing a razor blade down on them.
Right, who cares when it might make Pronger seem less villainous? Again, I am not condoning Pronger's actions, but to call Kesler's actions a distraction from focusing on what Pronger did is laughable. What then do you call 279 posts before the video was YouTube'd that were clamoring for 30 games before they had seen it? And the 400+ posts after that who said that the low-res, grainy footage was "clear as day"?

Since 1980. You don't think holds happen all the time in hockey? Why did they ever bother making it a minor penalty then?

Are you serious?

Funny, I don't remember seeing "leg lock" in the NHL penalty book.

And leg lock most certainly isn't just your average holding.

Have always loved Pronger, always will. Pronger doesn't whine when people take cheapshots at him, so if you are willing to give it, you better be willing to take it. Obviously you don't want to cross the line of ending a guys career, but we all know what a P.O.S Kesler can be. He crosschecked Marchant from behind, do we go out making all sorts of whinefests?..no because hockey is a tough game.

The ultimate hypocrisy to me is the fans of so called 'traditional' markets almost always being the first ones to whine and complain about tough hockey, I hope in 50 years that isn't me..

Pronger isn't tough he's a dirty rat, big difference. I have no respect for this clown, what a disgrace for the NHL. Simon got 30 games suspension and Pronger nothing!!!!! One day Pronger will get his. But hey good luck to ya:thumbu:

Funny, I don't remember seeing "leg lock" in the NHL penalty book.

And leg lock most certainly isn't just your average holding.
Ok, sure... I take back everything I said previously. Pronger should have slit his throat from ear-to-ear. B@stard had it coming...

Ok, sure... I take back everything I said previously. Pronger should have slit his throat from ear-to-ear. B@stard had it coming...

Thank you.

It really shouldn't have been that hard though.

Apples to oranges - one has contact and the other does not. We have very similar incidents (apples to apples) here... intent is vague and no one got hurt but the stomping is evident. The league set the bar for Simon's actions... why the double-standard to Pronger?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that the intent with Simon is not vague, he slewfooted the guy then stomped on his foot while the puck was dead. Combine that with only being back a few games since a 25 game suspension and it looks pretty grim...hence the 30 game suspension.

Pronger's situation is far more vague.

The leg lock is a red herring. Who cares? Holds happen all the time in hockey but that does not excuse bringing a razor blade down on them.
It is not a red herring as it may have cause Pronger to be off-balance that caused him to put his foot on Kesler's leg. Or he may have intentionally "stomped" on him. I just do not know, but the leg lock is a big reason WHY I do not know.

Pronger isn't tough he's a dirty rat, big difference. I have no respect for this clown, what a disgrace for the NHL. Simon got 30 games suspension and Pronger nothing!!!!! One day Pronger will get his. But hey good luck to ya:thumbu:

Hey, sorry we had to beat you in the finals, nice to see you've gotten over it and aren't harboring any ill-will. If you're lucky, you'll get to watch Pronger skate around the ice with the Stanley Cup again this year. :thumbu:

(See how easy it is to troll? I thought we weren't going to turn this into the ****storm that's on the main board?)

[QUOTE=Joe Canada;13090683]
Good on you, although you have to admit it's funny that a few people (one in particular) are calling out and implying that our perceived absence in that thread vindicates their hatred for the Ducks (whom this one person hates because he is "moral" - btw, props to whoever coined 'Moral Mary' in that thread - despite living in the "Ducks market" of LA... who knew people from LA hated the Ducks? :sarcasm:)
[QUOTE]

Ugh, I gave in and replied to the stupid *ss saying that was saying 98% of Ducks fans don't know how to ice skate, so we really can't understand how sharp the blades are. Are you freaking kidding me with the stuff these people come up with? :shakehead

[QUOTE=kducks;13091026][QUOTE=Joe Canada;13090683]
Good on you, although you have to admit it's funny that a few people (one in particular) are calling out and implying that our perceived absence in that thread vindicates their hatred for the Ducks (whom this one person hates because he is "moral" - btw, props to whoever coined 'Moral Mary' in that thread - despite living in the "Ducks market" of LA... who knew people from LA hated the Ducks? :sarcasm:)


haha good one, dorthy hamil.

Why are you even in this thread? You just went off on someone about there comprehension and yet you are posting in the thread that says Anaheim FANS OPINIONS?

What I am not sure about is whether Pronger was pushing his leg down to "stomp" on another player or just in a natural reaction to trying to regain his balance..
What?

Have you ever been off balance, and in order to correct yourself, threw your leg towards the ground?

That's not how one regains balance.

What?

Have you ever been off balance, and in order to correct yourself, threw your leg towards the ground?

That's not how one regains balance.
Yes, I have been standing on one leg and put my other leg down toward the ground to prevent me from falling over.

edit: I am guessing you prefer to flail your arms wildly to regain balance?

My opinion:

No, this does not warrant a suspension. Someone should remind Kesler that this is hockey, not Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He should not have continued to wrapp his legs around Pronger after the fall.

Yes, I have been standing on one leg and put my other leg down toward the ground to prevent me from falling over.

Yeah, but you didn't hurl your leg towards the ground like a stomp. No one does that.

[QUOTE=VisionQuest;13091062]Why are you even in this thread? You just went off on someone about there comprehension and yet you are posting in the thread that says Anaheim FANS OPINIONS?

Good point, but despite having logic on our side, I think I'm done with the Pronger threads. We can't beat the trolls, whether we do it with logic or flamewars... both are equally pointless.

So until Pronger's fate is officially decided (pending that hearing, I suppose), I think I'll keep my distance because we've all said everything that there is to say, five times over. :)

[QUOTE=kducks;13091100]

Good point, but despite having logic on our side, I think I'm done with the Pronger threads. We can't beat the trolls, whether we do it with logic or flamewars... both are equally pointless.

So until Pronger's fate is officially decided (pending that hearing, I suppose), I think I'll keep my distance because we've all said everything that there is to say, five times over. :)

Well it's ok in here for now, VQ's posts have mysteriously disappeared, lol. :sarcasm:

Yay for this thread turning into another crapfest.

[QUOTE=kducks;13091100]

Good point, but despite having logic on our side, I think I'm done with the Pronger threads. We can't beat the trolls, whether we do it with logic or flamewars... both are equally pointless.

So until Pronger's fate is officially decided (pending that hearing, I suppose), I think I'll keep my distance because we've all said everything that there is to say, five times over. :)

I tend to stay away from the children's section of the boards, all the hatred for the Ducks, because they are winners right now, is just, well, it's like being 5 again on the playground with the spoiled kid threatening to take his ball home because we aren't playing fair.

If their team was in the Ducks position, you wouldn't hear a word from them. Yea, yea, I can hear the moral responses now.....

Not me, I would speak up in an instant, that is uncalled for, they should be thrown off the planet, and have their toe nails ripped off through their ears.

But yet we can hand out an open ice hit at 20 miles per hour and knock a guy unconscious, and we cheer "Great hit, did you see the hit on so and so"

Even though that player just sustained a career ending injury. Where are the calls for suspensions etc. Nowhere, grow up people.

Like I posted earlier, the league needs to do what it feels it needs to do. I really don't care one way or the other.

Happens all the time?? How long have you been following hockey?

Players rarely ever do it. Total bush league. I mean, in minor hockey kids would do it all the time, but I don't see pros do it often at all.

I see Pronger doing it on purpose........ but I see the player on the ground hooking Pron with his skate trying to slow him down.... that is when Pronger steps on his leg

Pronger isn't tough he's a dirty rat, big difference. I have no respect for this clown, what a disgrace for the NHL. Simon got 30 games suspension and Pronger nothing!!!!! One day Pronger will get his. But hey good luck to ya:thumbu:

Nothing like some hyperbole-soaked nonsense trolling to ruin a pretty good discussion.

...the mass of drooling labia that populate these boards...

This is the greatest...

To me, Pronger's transgressions are mostly at least loosely associated with an actual "hockey play". Holmstrom was a boards check gone awry. McCammond was an open-ice interference gone awry. Kessler a "get off my leg you *****" shake gone awry. I don't think he really makes the decision to be a filthy *******, but he's got a screw loose that sends him that little bit over the edge.

What are you gonna do, he's a bad, bad man. He's also extremely entertaining, and extremely good.

The fans on the main boards spew nonsense. Less than 1% of them have original thoughts that are worth a damn. The 1% that do make the main boards worth visiting, but most of the ramblings are nonsense. In general, of all the stakeholders in pro sports (fans, media, players, coaches, front office, etc) the fans are the least knowledgable and the most obnoxious. I'm not going to lose sleep over some jackass in Livonia who longs for the days when his mockery and distaste for the "Mighty Ducks" at least made sense.

Don't see how the NHL cannot suspend him after the 30 games they gave Simon.

What Pronger did doesn't warrant 30 games, but there has to be some kind of 5 - 10 game suspension for that, or Campbell is a joke.

I don't believe that if Pronger is suspended, it will be close to 30 games. Simon got 30 because he just came off a suspension for 25.

If Pronger gets anything, which I feel he might now, it can't be more than 10 games. I'll say 5, but with how big its got, I wouldn't be suprised with 10.

With 9 games left in the regular season, he misses 1 playoff game. It would suck, but what can you do about it now.:shakehead

As there's the main board crap fest on Pronger, I think it'd be interesting to know what other Anaheim fans think of his various suspendable actions. The 3 I can think of are the 2 in the playoffs and this stomp. Feel free to add any other incidents you can think of. While I don't want to make any conclusions about the incident, and am not sure there's enough evidence for disciplinary measures, I would like to add a big HAha to all the haters freaking out.

Tomas Holmstrom:
42.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
44.1 Checking from Behind – A check from behind is a check delivered on a player who is not aware of the impending hit, therefore unable to protect or defend himself, and contact is made on the back part of the body. When a player intentionally turns his body to create contact with his back, no penalty shall be assessed.
Chris Pronger:
Height: 6' 6" Weight: 213
Tomas Holmstrom:
Height: 6' 0" Weight: 203
The Height difference may not be a factor but it is a big difference between hitting someone in the head or in the shoulders. Now if your Chris Pronger do you want to readjust how you hit just because your playing with shorter people. I cannot fault pronger for being an oaf or for hitting Holmstrom into the boards because Rob Niedermayer pinballed Tomas Holmstrom into the boards Holmstrom clearly sees both players around 43 seconds into that video so Check from Behind does not hurt Pronger or Niedermayer. But what does is the Boarding penalty. Rob insert into the formula made the hit alot worse that it could have been but it is an awesome hit and I can say this because Holmstrom is fine. Kinda

OzC05QuAkZ4

Dean McAmmond:
46.1 Elbowing - Elbowing shall mean the use of an extended elbow in a manner that may or may not cause injury.

Chris Pronger:
Height: 6' 6" Weight: 213
Dean McAmmond:
Height: 5' 11"Weight: 195
Dean McAmmond can in very fast and very low ever increaseing his chance for hard hit to his own head. Now Pronger appears to thrust his elbows toward Dean McAmmonds head. Dean McAmmond has a history of Concussions so he was bound to have one again. If this play deserves a suspension because a player got a concussion in the Stanley Cup Finals so does another hit that wasn't very dirty. There was another play during the Cup Finals last year that also needed a suspension by a certain swede with a puck. Was the intention not there?

1hzlI1TqL6w

Ryan Kelser:
49.1 Kicking – The action of a player or goalkeeper deliberately using his skate(s) with a kicking motion to propel the puck or to contact an opponent.


Today in my Calculus class I was taking a test and when I was finished I realized that my foot had become tangled with my backpack. I kicked around until it was free and then I kicked down again to make sure it was free then looked down Why this is important is cause it's human nature not to try to make yourself look stupid. Just Imagine I'm pronger and my stupid backpack is CP's *****. You would all do the same. I check so I would look stupid and trip and fall so I could continue my domination of Calculus and Pronger did it to continue his domination of the Canucks.

Bt5rBWarx6A

This may be my best post ever.

Go Ducks

great post MOENing

My opinion:

No, this does not warrant a suspension. Someone should remind Kesler that this is hockey, not Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He should not have continued to wrapp his legs around Pronger after the fall.

Are you a new fan to the game? I'm serious. Hockey IS NOT about intentionally assaulting a player with a weapon. What Pronger should have done was try to draw a penalty by falling. Instead he maliciously stomped on Kesler's leg.

Are you aware of how sharp skates are? Sharp enough to slit a throat, or cut a leg to the bone - this isn't a laughing matter - in fact it's disgusting.

I'm far from being a Canuck fan (I despise them actually), but I will call a spade a spade. I don't care if it was Pronger doing it or if it's a Lady Byng winner - it warrants a suspension.

If Pronger is saying that another review is necessary...

End of discussion.

What Pronger should have done was try to draw a penalty by falling.
Pronger may be a leg stomping, head bashing, 9,000 ft tall monster, but he is no diver!!! How dare you insult him like that.

If I am a Ducks-Fan I hope that the NHL close-out Pronger. It's an unbelievable **** what he did there! 5 games or more is the minimum!

If I am a Ducks-Fan I hope that the NHL close-out Pronger. It's an unbelievable **** what he did there! 5 games or more is the minimum!

Your a Might Duck's fan though... big differance. 5 games sounds about right but calling it "unbelievable ****" is laughable.

Your a Might Duck's fan though... big differance. 5 games sounds about right but calling it "unbelievable ****" is laughable.

Where is the problem? Okay, the word "****" wasn't the right choice (sry for this). Why is it laughable?

There is suddenly a amazing amount of Duck Fans giving their thoughts in here. :sarcasm:

Where is the problem? Okay, the word "****" wasn't the right choice (sry for this). Why is it laughable?

If I were in your shoes, I would have said "Pronger deserves to be suspended 5 games for bad judgement".

I cried in joy when Disney sold the Ducks. It's time for the fans to switch over now.

A major common denominator in many of Pronger's transgressions is that the sin is multiplied, if not caused by his sheer size. The Holmstrom hit is a case in point. If Niedermeyer doesn't hit Holmstrom, then Pronger's hit just become a simple shoulder check. Instead, Holmstrom gets stood up by Niedermeyer and then the laws of physics conspire against Pronger (a body in motion tends to stay in motion) and he plants Holmstrom high. The McAmmond elbow is part of the same script. He tries to bump McAmmond off the rush and his elbow rides up McAmmond's shoulder as he's racing into the zone and plants him square in the face. If Joe Thronton is the one driving the zone, Pronger's elbow hits him in the arm or chest and no foul. I think one could have made a better case earlier in Pronger's career that his stick induced suspensions were malicious. But I think the ones you have listed with the exception of the most recent Kessler incident are more a function of Pronger's gangly size than anything else.

How many suspensions does Zdeno Chara have? He's bigger than Pronger...

There is suddenly a amazing amount of Duck Fans giving their thoughts in here. :sarcasm:

Talk about a Bandwagon. lol

One thing to note is, Pronger isn't a small guy. I would think, unless Kesler wears steel shin guards, if he intended to injure Kesler's leg with a stomp, Kesler would at the very least have some kind of deep cut.

Thus I stand by my opinion it's just Pronger trying to escape the leg lock, and re-join the play.

Now, watching it a few times, he did make the stomp motion on purpose, but I think it should be taken into account he didn't use much force. Basically, it's the difference between slapping someone or giving them a knockout punch.

Man, people really are inherently ****ing stupid. Im not sure if that makes sense grammatically, but my god.

Theodore's skate accidentally hit Perry and lacerated his leg bad enough to shelve him for six weeks. Theo's a pretty tiny guy compared to Pronger, and he certainly didn't do it on purpose.

Shin guard or not, I can't imagine if Pronger put his whole 220-ish pounds into a skate thrust that Kesler's leg would not somehow be damaged. It doesn't mean he didn't mean to do it, but it means that either by accident or through Pronger's purposeful actions, he let up. That's like, reverse Pronger physics or something, right? ;)

Still interested to see if the NHL has anything more to say on this matter...

That "new" replay basically shows he did it on purpose........and....twice. He's 100% going to be suspended as the NHL's hands are probably going to be tied on this. If they dont suspend him for doing the exact same thing Simon did, it just looks like the NHL will suspend a scrub, but not a star player. They might say he hasnt had quite as bad a history as Simon and only suspend him 15 games (i.e. 1/2 Simon), but I would expect a minimum of 10 games suspended.

How many suspensions does Zdeno Chara have? He's bigger than Pronger...

I'm not saying Pronger didn't deserve to be punished in those instances, just pointing out the differences between maliciousness and recklessness.

How late is the Nhl office open? I want answers.

I'm not saying Pronger didn't deserve to be punished in those instances, just pointing out the differences between maliciousness and recklessness.

I still think stupilicious (stupid + malicious) sounds better, and perhaps more fitting for Pronger's alleged IQ. :sarcasm:

I'm not saying Pronger didn't deserve to be punished in those instances, just pointing out the differences between maliciousness and recklessness.

If we're trying to revise history like the OP tried to do then I could see your point, but he's had a history of doing stupid things, such as when he El Kabong'd Jeremy Roenick or when he left the bench to fight.

It's hard to try and portray Pronger as someone who is just a big, misunderstood giant. Disclosure: I am a Canucks fan, but I'm not necessarily out looking for blood in this instance. My only real concern is the league reaction to this, as it's a far bigger problem than any perceived slights or problems against the Canucks or Ryan Kesler.

If Campbell decides that this was intentional or that Pronger admits he was 'stomping' on him or whatever, fine. Just don't give him a slap on the wrist.

I personally like it when players hate each other: it's what leads to good, intense hockey games. Besides, even if Pronger does get suspended it's not like that'll magically have won the hockey game for the Canucks or we'll have an advantage going into the playoffs (as I doubt we'll be facing the Ducks IF we make the playoffs...)

But yeah. I wandered into here because there's a far better signal:noise ratio than in the main forum.

I don't believe that if Pronger is suspended, it will be close to 30 games. Simon got 30 because he just came off a suspension for 25.

If Pronger gets anything, which I feel he might now, it can't be more than 10 games. I'll say 5, but with how big its got, I wouldn't be suprised with 10.

With 9 games left in the regular season, he misses 1 playoff game. It would suck, but what can you do about it now.:shakehead

That's pretty much my take. It definitely wasn't as bad as Simon's, yet at the same time the league front office is going to take a lot of heat if it isn't a meaningful suspension. My guess is minimum 8 games, more likely 10. Nothing over 15 worst case.

Since when do we have so many Duck fans on this board.

Since when do we have so many Duck fans on this board.

Its a Bettman initiative.

The answer is simple IMO:

Kessler is a little ***** who tried to trip Pronger with his feet. I wish pronger would have just beat the **** out of him while he was on the ice. Now even though I think that of Kessler, there is no jusitce in stomping on someone. Personally I think it's dumb to compare this incident to Simon's. Pronger has been suspended before but he didn't just come off a really long suspention, only to recieve another one.

Pronger should be suspended, that's a given. He retaliated, but he did it in the wrong way. Honestly I would say 15 games is fair. Although I hope that is not the case. The Ducks will be lucky if Pronger gets less then 15 IMO. I could live with him being out for the last 9 games of the season, but missing him during the playoffs would be huge. Especially since it looks like the Ducks will either face the Sharks or the Stars.

Its a Bettman initiative.

Hahaha, for some reason the phrase "artificial insemination" came to mind. How else would they breed Ducks fans so strategically?

Are you a new fan to the game? I'm serious. Hockey IS NOT about intentionally assaulting a player with a weapon. What Pronger should have done was try to draw a penalty by falling. Instead he maliciously stomped on Kesler's leg.

Are you aware of how sharp skates are? Sharp enough to slit a throat, or cut a leg to the bone - this isn't a laughing matter - in fact it's disgusting.

I'm far from being a Canuck fan (I despise them actually), but I will call a spade a spade. I don't care if it was Pronger doing it or if it's a Lady Byng winner - it warrants a suspension.

If Pronger is saying that another review is necessary...

End of discussion.

There is a huge thread on the main board for you and all the other non-ducks fans to gripe in. Stay out of ours.

I thought this was going to be heavily moderated?

Pronger shouldn't be suspended I like what Pierre Maguire said Kelser did wrapped his leg around pronger and pronger did react. I think they should just take his next pay check. Or something of that nature.

I think they should just take his next pay check. Or something of that nature.

Steal his lunch money!

Pronger will probably be suspended for 5 games. There was no premeditation. When Kesler wrapped his leg around Pronger, the so-called stomp was more to get Kesler off him than to injury him.

Look at the players that these horribly dramatic things are happening to - Hollweg, Ruutu, and now Kesler. These agitators are might be doing their jobs at their own risk more and more.

7-6-1

I hope you Ducks fans will forgive me, a Kings fan for posting on your "Ducks fans" thread.

While I am neither a Ducks fan nor a Pronger fan, I cannot believe some of the overblown reactions I'm seeing. Fans of other teams demanding 15, 20, 30 game suspension for Pronger.

In my opinion he deserves nothing of the kind. This was not a premeditated act at all, which should be obvious from a close examination of the best available video.

Notice at the very beginning of the incident that Pronger was off balance, almost ready to tumble backwards over the heel end of his up-ice skate, before the 2 stomps even happened. He then got tangled with Kesler and never fully regained his balance until after the 2 stomps took place.

The key question is, where else could Pronger possibly have planted his skate, in a situation where he had to act instinctively while losing his balance, without doing an awkward flying tumble?

That episode was basically about Pronger's being out of balance on his skates with Kesler's legs in the way, and Pronger urgently/instinctively looking for a place to plant his skate, and NOT any real intent to injure.

This is my opinion. Any suspension should be a minimal number of games, this coming from a Kings fan with no love for Pronger.

Just one more observation to add, but the overblown reaction (initially, before the second video was released) reminds me of that no-goal call in the Ducks/Wings game last month- in the sense that if the media grabs hold of something and spins it before all the facts are known, people are that much more likely to jump on.

Remember the big stink Pierre McGuire made about how "brutal" that call was in Detroit? Didn't take long for people to run with that and then that descended into denigrating remarks about Ducks fans, players and management. If we isolate the time before the second video was released, everybody saw TSN's headline and the word "stomp", and knowing it was Pronger, nearly broke their necks jumping to conclusions.

Now that the second, more clear video is out, it's less debatable of course, but my issue is how hastily people jump to foolish conclusions based on half-baked logic and mob mentality. Even worse, when that second video did come out, people were tripping over themselves to be the first to say "told you so Ducks fans!!! lololol" and nobody seemed to realize that most of us agreed and had just wanted to wait for more tangible proof.

I'd say winning another Cup would finally silence things for the summer, but I get this eerie feeling that such an event would actually end up crashing the HF servers due to the mass amounts of angry threads. Only one way to find out, and that's to win the Cup again. :D
Exactly. Like I said, it totally reminds me of Fox News. Fair and balanced.

Ryan Kelser:


Today in my Calculus class I was taking a test and when I was finished I realized that my foot had become tangled with my backpack. I kicked around until it was free and then I kicked down again to make sure it was free then looked down Why this is important is cause it's human nature not to try to make yourself look stupid. Just Imagine I'm pronger and my stupid backpack is CP's *****. You would all do the same. I check so I would look stupid and trip and fall so I could continue my domination of Calculus and Pronger did it to continue his domination of the Canucks.

Bt5rBWarx6A

This may be my best post ever.

Go Ducks

Ha. Awesome.

There is suddenly a amazing amount of Duck Fans giving their thoughts in here. :sarcasm:
Yeah the intention was for Ducks fans only. Sad that people can't read. Keep fighting the good fight. At least there haven't been too many "Ducks fans are stupid" posts here. Or they've been moderated away.

Yeah the intention was for Ducks fans only. Sad that people can't read. Keep fighting the good fight. At least there haven't been too many "Ducks fans are stupid" posts here. Or they've been moderated away.

Can't handle other people's opinions? Ouch.

Can't handle other people's opinions? Ouch.

Seeing as they're not wanted in this thread, no.

why does no one mention that kesler hit pronger from behind to start this all?

Can't handle other people's opinions? Ouch.

No just a low tolerance for people who can't read or who are willfully ignorant. Coming to troll? Why else are you here posting in this thread given the title?

why does no one mention that kesler hit pronger from behind to start this all?

Kesler likes to hit people from behind who don't have the puck doesn't he? Marchant first, then Pronger. Maybe if Pronger retaliated in kind by hitting Kesler from behind instead of stepping on him, people's heads wouldn't be exploding.....nah...

Pronger shouldn't be suspended I like what Pierre Maguire said Kelser did wrapped his leg around pronger and pronger did react. I think they should just take his next pay check. Or something of that nature.

Kessler did indeed try to scissors Pronger. So if Pronger wanted to retaliate, he should have punched him or slashed him with his stick. Stomping his skate blade into Kessler's leg is not the right way to retaliate so he's going to pay a heavy price for that. They should not suspend him beyond the regular season: 5 to 9 games is the right ballpark.

Interesting thread. I missed the whole thing due to travel. With the 10 minutes that I've had to look at video, it seems Campbell has a narrow path to walk since he said about the Simon incident:......the deliberate act of kicking an opponent with an exposed skate blade, especially where the opponent is in a vulnerable position, is and always has been a repugnant and totally unacceptable act in the game of hockey."He cant be anymore clear about the action he is trying to call out. 30 games though ....... there are some differences that others have noted:
The Simon incident was while play was stopped
Simon is a worse offender than Pronger and has had longer suspensions than Pronger in the past.
Kessler did try and hold Pronger up
There was no injury from the actBut it's probably moot.
There was no whistle and the play was headed the other direction, but there was no hockey going on at the end of the ice either. The play that got the two men tangled was long over so its not about a 'heat of the moment' act. Pronger was carried away and continued in the act when he could have held off, much like Bertuzzi on Moore and McSorey on Brashers did in their incidents.
The number of suspensions will come into play and Simon already had a 25 game suspension before getting the 30 game suspension.
Kessler held him up and the first stomp can be attributed to a player trying to regain his balance. But the following stop was made while Pronger had his balance, and he was looking at where the blow was intended.Biggest problem with the act is its being committed with the most dangerous potential weapon on the ice. The League almost had a death this year when a skate sliced through a players neck artery. Skates are kept sharp and using them as a weapon is dangerous and potentially career and life threatening.

Pronger isn't going to get 30 games, but Campbell has already boxed himself into a corner by calling out the exact same act versus Simon. Simon went from a 25 game prior, to a 30 game suspension, so its reasonable to assume Pronger will go from a 4 game prior to a 9 game suspension. TSN has suggested rumors were the suspension will be for the rest of the season, and the first playoff game. IMO, thats reasonable under the circumstances.

EDIT: Just read that some on the Duck board were not looking for non-Duck fans. My apologies. I never post on the main board and went here because I was interested in Duck fan's POV, not someone from the Sens for instance. (Good luck next Friday)

I think Pronger should have just stood there until "Pestler" decided he was finished.:sarcasm:

Can't handle other people's opinions? Ouch.

You guys have had two threads on the main board to complain about whatever you want to until you're blue in the face. This is a thread on the... Anaheim Ducks board, where an... Anaheim Ducks fan posted a thread looking for... wait for it now... Anaheim Ducks fans' opinions.

It's not a matter of being able to "handle" other opinions, we have 2000 or so posts of other opinions we can read elsewhere if we want other peoples' opinions. Due to that, it's been hard to get a word in edgewise on the main hockey board, so this thread was created for... can you guess? That's right, Anaheim Ducks fans to express their opinions.

Are you still unclear on the concept?


EDIT: Just read that some on the Duck board were not looking for non-Duck fans. My apologies. I never post on the main board and went here because I was interested in Duck fan's POV, not someone from the Sens for instance. (Good luck next Friday)

Despite what I said, I think the goal of saying that this thread was Ducks fans only was to encourage semi-productive, non-inflammatory discussion in a contained environment. In that respect, you've done well by this thread, so it doesn't really matter that you're a Sharks fan. In fact, I'm a little weirded out because it seems like the biggest group of supporters (among the few that there are) is comprised of Sharks fans. Seriously, it's starting to scare me. :help:

I do love how certain members of the Canadian media are making it their own personal crusade to try and get Pronger as long a suspension as possible. That's some good unbiased reporting. Granted, Pronger has had his share of indiscretions, but a lengthy suspension is ridiculous. There wasn't much intent here at all. He was trying to get his leg free from a player trying to obstruct him from getting back up the ice. Another thing that bugs me with all these Pronger incidents: the guy who actually led up to Pronger doing something stupid always gets off the hook with all the bandwagoners on the main board who want to parrot the conventional "wisdom" that the Ducks are dirty. Holmstrom can run Giguere all he wants, Chris Neil can try and take Andy McDonald's head off, Ryan Kesler can try to injure Todd Marchant and trip up Pronger, but the other team is just a bunch of angels right next to big bad evil Pronger. Pronger will never be my favorite player. But he's still a guy you'd love to have on your team, except when he loses his head at the worst possible times.

The one thing that makes me think Pronger was innocent was that there was zero retaliation from the canucks. This leads me to believe that they too thought it was just an unfortunate accident.

why does no one mention that kesler hit pronger from behind to start this all?

Because its completely irrelevant, and doesn't justify what Pronger did?

Because its completely irrelevant, and doesn't justify what Pronger did?

Hey look, another Ducks fan!

Because its completely irrelevant, and doesn't justify what Pronger did?

I dunno... someone(Kessler) doing something(leg scissors, impeding play) without the ref calling it out, sometimes you'll get retaliation. But hey, if Kessler didn't do that, then none of this wouldn't have happened.

I wonder if the NHL should crack down on leg scissoring in the league? (I'm being facetious with this inquiry.)

I dunno... someone(Kessler) doing something(leg scissors, impeding play) without the ref calling it out, sometimes you'll get retaliation. But hey, if Kessler didn't do that, then none of this wouldn't have happened.

I wonder if the NHL should crack down on leg scissoring in the league? (I'm being facetious with this inquiry.)

Sorry, but I am not going to say what was a deserving suspension. But to even insinuate this was in any way Kesler's fault is untrue.

One thing I'd like to say before being cast off this board is that the media isn't targeting Pronger because he's a Duck, they also targeted him when he was an Oiler. Secondly Bob McKenzie (and you know how respected he is) actually defended Pronger before the 2nd video came out, so talk about fans all you want but saying the canadian media is "out to get Anaheim" seems a little silly to me.

One thing I'd like to say before being cast off this board is that the media isn't targeting Pronger because he's a Duck, they also targeted him when he was an Oiler. Secondly Bob McKenzie (and you know how respected he is) actually defended Pronger before the 2nd video came out, so talk about fans all you want but saying the canadian media is "out to get Anaheim" seems a little silly to me.
Not out to get Anaheim, just out to create a ****storm. Blowing things out of proportion.

It's really no wonder so many of the Canadian fans here behave the way they do.

As I said on the main board, his act was inexcusable.

I can't believe something like this is coming from a top-3 d-man in the world.

If it wasn't Pronger it would have been a 20 games suspension.

I'm actually glad there's a thread here, as I feel getting into an argument about it on the main board would be the equivelent of banging my head against a brick wall.

The Holmstrom hit was a debatable dirty hit, but Pronger's suspension didn't really matter, as the Wings failed to capitalize on his absense.

The McAmmond hit I thought was dirty, but meh.

The Kessler thing I'm conflicted on. I think Pronger was in the wrong and got what was deserved. But really, Kessler had no business wrapping his legs around Pronger, this isn't freaking wrestling.

On a side note, I'd wonder what a Ducks-Flyers Cup final would do to the psyche of some the people on the main board. :sarcasm:

It's really no wonder so many of the Canadian fans here behave the way they do.

Hey now.. ;)

I was careful to not say "all".

I think for Pronger we can combine them and just agree that it was "stupilicious".

Or maybe "Prongilicious"

No just a low tolerance for people who can't read or who are willfully ignorant. Coming to troll? Why else are you here posting in this thread given the title?

I explained myself a page or two back. The signal:noise ratio is far better here than on the main forums. I had thought that you folks would have been capable of mature debate and/or discussion.

Apparently that's not possible, nor desired in here.

I'll let you get back to what this thread's intended purpose: :cry:

Happy trails.

I explained myself a page or two back. The signal:noise ratio is far better here than on the main forums. I had thought that you folks would have been capable of mature debate and/or discussion.

Apparently that's not possible, nor desired in here.

I'll let you get back to what this thread's intended purpose: :cry:

Happy trails.

adios

That was no accident he was looking down at kesler. If it was an accident he wouldn't be looking at kesler

Apparently that's not possible, nor desired in here.

I'll let you get back to what this thread's intended purpose: :cry:

You are neither a Ducks fan, nor a person who seems interested in reasonable discourse. Seems like you're the one who can't stand other opinions. Btw, Pronger will be back by playoff time, so we're not losing any sleep.

That was no accident he was looking down at kesler. If it was an accident he wouldn't be looking at kesler

As Hazy explained it, "Pronger can't see what's beneath him because of his appliance." By appliance he meant that contraption to protect his jaw. Anyhow, if you were being tripped up and didn't want to fall what would be the first thing you'd do to prevent you from falling? Looking down. Though, it's doubtful that Pronger looked directly down to find Kesler's leg because his accessory would prevent him.

And for those who's come back would be, "Well, how does he shoot the puck?" Pronger never has had to look down before shooting the puck. He just has a feel for it. That's what makes him different from most d-men.

And for those who's come back would be, "Well, how does he shoot the puck?" Pronger never has had to look down before shooting the puck. He just has a feel for it. That's what makes him different from most d-men.

Beauchemin doesn't look when he shoots either. Of course, he usually misses the puck... :sarcasm:

I think it's obvious the only way that pronger can regain his balance is stomping kelser ankle it a simple theory of Pronger Physics.

Colin Campbell re. Chris Simon's accusation of star treatment:

"Mr. Simon can state his opinion. Our job is to assess what we feel is fair and right. If Chris didn't do what he has done, he wouldn't need to complain about how we handle discipline."

No matter which side you're on, that last part is a bit of an "oh snap" response, since the league execs usually decline comment or offer clichés exclusively.

Colin Campbell re. Chris Simon's accusation of star treatment:

"Mr. Simon can state his opinion. Our job is to assess what we feel is fair and right. If Chris didn't do what he has done, he wouldn't need to complain about how we handle discipline."

No matter which side you're on, that last part is a bit of an "oh snap" response, since the league execs usually decline comment or offer clichés exclusively.

the whole Simon thing is kinda interesting actually. Makes a good point in a way i guess but some of what the media made him sound like he was saying was stupid

Colin Campbell re. Chris Simon's accusation of star treatment:

"Mr. Simon can state his opinion. Our job is to assess what we feel is fair and right. If Chris didn't do what he has done, he wouldn't need to complain about how we handle discipline."

No matter which side you're on, that last part is a bit of an "oh snap" response, since the league execs usually decline comment or offer clichés exclusively.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/5/2/0/6/ohsnap4tz.gif

Campbell himself explains why he gave Pronger a lesser suspension than Simon. "In attempting to free himself, Pronger carelessly and recklessly brought his foot down." Makes sense to me. Although Campbell didn't explain how many games he would have given Simon had he not had that prior 25 game suspension.

http://www.ducati.ms/gallery/files/5/2/0/6/ohsnap4tz.gif

Campbell himself explains why he gave Pronger a lesser suspension than Simon. "In attempting to free himself, Pronger carelessly and recklessly brought his foot down." Makes sense to me. Although Campbell didn't explain how many games he would have given Simon had he not had that prior 25 game suspension.

Where's the money lebowski?!?!?

i really feel bad about everyone attacking pronger....i've seen stuff on the main board..like how he should go to jail...dirtiest player in the nhl..etc.
People need to open their eyes and see that what he did realyl was reactionary...if anyone grabbed my leg like that...i would probably try to shake them off/kick them 2

BESIDES...if any of the other teams had chris pronger...and this includes the canucks...they would be defending him the same way we are :)

i really feel bad about everyone attacking pronger....i've seen stuff on the main board..like how he should go to jail...dirtiest player in the nhl..etc.
People need to open their eyes and see that what he did realyl was reactionary...if anyone grabbed my leg like that...i would probably try to shake them off/kick them 2

BESIDES...if any of the other teams had chris pronger...and this includes the canucks...they would be defending him the same way we are :)

That doesn't make what he did right, though. People can compare it to Simon's actions all they want, or factor in Kesler's unorthodox leg trap, but the fact remains Pronger acted dangerously with his skate blade, and IMO warranted a greater suspension than was handed out. He got away with one there, and hey, had he been a Dallas Star, I'd be relieved with an 8 game ban.

Relieved, but embarrassed.

We're supposed to be embarassed, now?

We're supposed to be embarassed, now?

Apparently so because as Ducks fans, we are responsible for actions of all the players on the team at all times. Maybe we should send Pronger to his room without his dinner?:sarcasm:

We're supposed to be embarassed, now?

Apparently so because as Ducks fans, we are responsible for actions of all the players on the team at all times. Maybe we should send Pronger to his room without his dinner?:sarcasm:

Nice.

By "embarrassed", I was referring to the fact that if I was, say, an Isles fan or Flyers fan, I'd be embarrassed by the string of discipline directed towards my team/certain players. I'd feel much better had my team, you know, played fairly and without need of disciplinary action from the league.

And the fact that said action, in this case, is noticeably smaller than a near identical precedent earlier in the season, I'd be embarrassed knowing the entire league is aware that my team's player got a wimpy slap on the wrist from a clueless administrator, for a dangerous and dirty play that warranted greater penalty.

That's all.

And if you still can't comprehend that, well.....then I've got nothing more to say.

Actually I'm embarrassed that the fanbase of my favorite sport seems to have become a bunch of whiny, weeping wusses. Or people who have no sense of reason.

Should Pronger have done what he did? Not a chance. Should he have been punished more? Yup, maybe like 10-15 games. Are people completely oblivious that there was a lot more to Simon's action that means he's not a precedent? Absolutely.

I'd be embarrassed knowing the entire league is aware that my team's player got a wimpy slap on the wrist from a clueless administrator, for a dangerous and dirty play that warranted greater penalty.

What you're saying then is that we should be embarrassed now because Colin Campbell can't execute the power of his office to the best of his abilities, according to a bunch of armchair-executive, moralist fans? So Pronger got off easy, big deal. If it's the wrong response by the NHL, that's not our problem, so we're not really the ones who need to get bent. Embarrassed might be a better qualifier if our management or ownership had come out and said they agreed with Pronger's actions and didn't believe he deserved a single game, but that's not what happened.. so I fail to see what we have to be embarrassed about. (Embarrassment which, incidentally, is becoming a more abused and thrown-around term than "classless" and its ilk.)

If everybody in the league wants to act butt-hurt about this incident and never let it go, it would seem that it's the problem of the rest of the league, not the Anaheim Ducks. They can be aware of our receiving of the proverbial "star treatment", but I still don't see how that affects us as fans.

And if you still can't comprehend that, well.....then I've got nothing more to say.

With all due respect, you shouldn't really have had anything to say in this thread in the first place. You're not a Ducks fan.

Nice.

By "embarrassed", I was referring to the fact that if I was, say, an Isles fan or Flyers fan, I'd be embarrassed by the string of discipline directed towards my team/certain players. I'd feel much better had my team, you know, played fairly and without need of disciplinary action from the league.

And the fact that said action, in this case, is noticeably smaller than a near identical precedent earlier in the season, I'd be embarrassed knowing the entire league is aware that my team's player got a wimpy slap on the wrist from a clueless administrator, for a dangerous and dirty play that warranted greater penalty.

That's all.

And if you still can't comprehend that, well.....then I've got nothing more to say.
Mmmk. So much arrogance. *looks at location* Ah.

See, here's the thing, narrowmind. We understood what you said. It was just a stupid thing to say. The idea that for someone to disagree with you they have to have misunderstood you is comically retarded. Add to that the fact that you think your team actually represents you in some way, that you're so important that you need to be embarassed over the way they behave, or that people would actually care how you respond demonstrates the disconnect in your head between your real and self-perceived importance.

Actually I'm embarrassed that the fanbase of my favorite sport seems to have become a bunch of whiny, weeping wusses. Or people who have no sense of reason.

Should Pronger have done what he did? Not a chance. Should he have been punished more? Yup, maybe like 10-15 games. Are people completely oblivious that there was a lot more to Simon's action that means he's not a precedent? Absolutely.

There it is, right there....