Malik's Reaction on Being Scratched 2nite

Not sure if anyone heard this already...but I just wanted to throw this out there from Dellapina's Blog:

"Upon being informed that he would be the defenseman sitting out tonight to make room for Strudwick, Malik reacted angrily.

He put on his overcoat and stormed out of the Rangers’ lockerroom and into the Edmonton night. Where he was going was unclear"

Where he was going was unclear."

Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6746/fallentrafficconena7.jpg

Yeah, something has to be done. It'd be better for both parties to part ways at this point.

If he isn't careful he'll be running into his buddy Pock real quick...

Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6746/fallentrafficconena7.jpg

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh: i found this very funny


the way you guys talk about him i dont know why he is surprised by any of this, didnt he ***** at renney last time he got benched?

I get the impression that he is just the type of guy who thinks the world is out to get him. Whenever he was asked about the fans booing him, he would say something like 'i played a good game' or 'i cant do it all' and when he was scratched last time it was something like 'i cant score goals so they sit me'. Mind you I'm drastically paraphrasing because it's 3:40 AM. Regardless however, I think it might finally be time.

I dunno I cant blame him for being pissed that he was scratched, and I think any of us would be defensive about being booed at home. Doesn't change the fact that he sucks though.

I dunno I cant blame him for being pissed that he was scratched, and I think any of us would be defensive about being booed at home. Doesn't change the fact that he sucks though.

i hated this signing from the start.

i hated this signing from the start.

He was good the first year and decent the beginning of last year.

Regardless of what we do with Malik, there is no way Strudwick should be a regular member of our top 6.

Regardless of what we do with Malik, there is no way Strudwick should be a regular member of our top 6.

Agree. Very bad form on Malik's part but Strudwick is not a good player. I think at this point someone like Staal has learned just about everything about being a good teammate that Jason has to offer. I think the Rangers overrate sometimes what they would call good character in players who just aren't that good--Strudwick, Orr, Hollweg, Weekes, Valiquette etc. Kasper could have fallen into the same category but for some reason they dumped him pretty quick.

I've had about enough of both Malik and Strudwick but the Rangers don't seem to have a lot of options at the moment. Baranka is out--don't know for how long. Sauer has been inconsistent. Potter has a nice +/- but I seem to hear a lot of negatives. Hutchinson just doesn't seem to be that good defensively and Pock would have to pass through waivers.

Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6746/fallentrafficconena7.jpg

That's pretty damn clever. Thanks for the laugh.

Not what you'd call an ideal teammate. I wonder if Mara and/or Strudwick storm out into the night when they're healthy scratches.

You can say what you want about Malik, but I don't think him getting furious about getting benched is a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing. It shows that he cares and you can never blame a player for caring too much. He wants to play and he wants to win. It's that kind of attitude that wins games.

So alright, he's had a bad stretch, a really bad stretch, but who hasn't on this team lately? Just about any player has deserved to be scratched and I think that's part of the reason why Malik gets so upset: he's the one taking the heat.

If Renney had any real guts he would bench Jagr already! These Hossa,Malik benchings are getting old already. I guess Malik and Hossa are the reasons why this is the worst offensive team in the league!

You can say what you want about Malik, but I don't think him getting furious about getting benched is a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing. It shows that he cares and you can never blame a player for caring too much. He wants to play and he wants to win. It's that kind of attitude that wins games.

So alright, he's had a bad stretch, a really bad stretch, but who hasn't on this team lately? Just about any player has deserved to be scratched and I think that's part of the reason why Malik gets so upset: he's the one taking the heat.

No way. He cares? Yikes.

If so, then why does he play like a lifeless zombie on the ice?

I get the impression that he is just the type of guy who thinks the world is out to get him. Whenever he was asked about the fans booing him, he would say something like 'i played a good game' or 'i cant do it all' and when he was scratched last time it was something like 'i cant score goals so they sit me'. Mind you I'm drastically paraphrasing because it's 3:40 AM. Regardless however, I think it might finally be time.

Yea, but he is right.

All you have to do is look around message boards on the internet and listen to the fans at the games.

People RE out to get him.

Every time the guys name is mentioned people boo.

How would you feel? He is human not a machine, it gets to you after a while. It puts pressure on you.

And i agree with him about getting pissed off for being scratched.

He should be happy??? He WANTS to PLAY. He is a hockey player. And he is nowhere near as bad a player as people make him out to be.

If i were him, i would DEMAND a trade. I would have my agent kick Sather's door down and DEMAND a trade.

Malik is not the only problem of this team. Almos everyone understand here that he is suck. We have a much deeper problem.

Agree. Very bad form on Malik's part but Strudwick is not a good player. I think at this point someone like Staal has learned just about everything about being a good teammate that Jason has to offer. I think the Rangers overrate sometimes what they would call good character in players who just aren't that good--Strudwick, Orr, Hollweg, Weekes, Valiquette etc. Kasper could have fallen into the same category but for some reason they dumped him pretty quick.

I've had about enough of both Malik and Strudwick but the Rangers don't seem to have a lot of options at the moment. Baranka is out--don't know for how long. Sauer has been inconsistent. Potter has a nice +/- but I seem to hear a lot of negatives. Hutchinson just doesn't seem to be that good defensively and Pock would have to pass through waivers.

Problem is Malik thinks he's better then he really is! If the only time I'd ever seen Malik play would be this season then I would say he's a #5 or #6 guy at best. Sure he's an upgrade over Struds but has he really been that much better?

Against a team like Edmonton that skates, skates, skates and with Malik being slow, slow, slow the benching made sense. Sure it would be best for both parties if he got traded -- thanks to his wonderful play I'm not sure there is much of a market for him.

You can say what you want about Malik, but I don't think him getting furious about getting benched is a bad thing, in fact it's a good thing. It shows that he cares and you can never blame a player for caring too much. He wants to play and he wants to win. It's that kind of attitude that wins games.

So alright, he's had a bad stretch, a really bad stretch, but who hasn't on this team lately? Just about any player has deserved to be scratched and I think that's part of the reason why Malik gets so upset: he's the one taking the heat.

I'm also one of Malik's bigger defenders on this board, not because I think he's good, but that he's not as bad as people make him out to be.

But regardless of whether or not he actually deserves to be benched (he does), there's a way to handle it and a way not to handle it. This was the latter. Yes, it's good that he's upset about it. Who wouldn't be? But at the same time, he's a grown man and a professional. Act like it. If the report said that he threw a garbage can against the wall and then stewed in front of his locker for a while, then I'd be fine with it. But you don't walk out on your teammates. That's not a winning attitude, that's a selfish attitude.

What if someone had gotten hurt in warmups and they had to put him back in, only he was nowhere to be found? Renney oughta bring down a penalty on Malik here, because there's no excuse for acting like that.

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

1) Shop Malik around to the league, try and get a draft pick
2) If no one wants him, waive him and send him to Hartford
3) Bring up Baranka
4) Make Strudwick the 7th defenseman

Bingo. Our defense is instantly better and more mobile.

I really think this whole Malik thing is getting ridiculous now.

I hope he is traded now. Not because I don't think he is at least a top 6 defenseman, but because this whole situation with him is starting to be a massive distraction. Also, the fans aren't just going to stop booing him, no matter what. Everytime he makes even a small mistake he will hear it. He's the scapegoat and that isn't going to change

I'm positive there are at least a few other teams that won't mind him. Please Malik, as to be traded already

It's a hard situation with Malik. Sometimes he does not play like he should and I feel like he should use his height and strength against the opposing team. Other night even if he does play a defensively sound game, the crowd will rip him to shreds. It's hard to play for a town that wants nothing to do with you and it is difficult to trade someone to a team due to all the crap he gets. I do think we need better defensemen and hopefully we pick up and let out those who need to go.

Something needs to be done at this point. Malik has obviously stopped being a team player and that is not soomthing the Rangers need at this point. They have enough issues to deal with besides a head case. Trade or waive him asap!

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

1) Shop Malik around to the league, try and get a draft pick
2) If no one wants him, waive him and send him to Hartford
3) Bring up Baranka
4) Make Strudwick the 7th defenseman


Bingo. Our defense is instantly better and more mobile.

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

Resign and apologize to the fans of NY for being the worst GM in the NHL since his arrival.

For years we were unable to even reach the playoffs. Then we were told that our farm system is the envy of the league. As all of the young guys, one by one, prove to be overhyped garbage - besides Staal and Lundqvist - and it becomes more apparent hat his stint here is an utter disaster.

I still hope that Girardi recaptures his abilities of last year which would give us 3 good NHL players out of the hordes he has drafted.

It is amazing that he hasn't drafted an NHL impact forward in all of these years.

Maybe after the punching bag Malik is no longer here it will become apparent to those that believe that Malik is somehow a focal point of what ails the Rangers. Nah, the masses will find a new punching bag, probably Renney.

The Rangers have options with Malik. He's not as effective on the third pairing without Roszival as a partner and frequently Jagr on the wing. They can move Staal down to the third pairing again with Mara and bring up that pairings minutes and put Malik and Roszival back together again and see how it works--they do have good chemistry. That option might help both Mara and Malik. What I would question here is 1) I think Staal is already a better player and 2) I think Malik is in his final season with us anyway and why knock yourself out for him and I like the idea of bringing up a Baranka and getting him some experience. Moving Malik might not be very easy but it should also be an option. Sending him down to Hartford seems too drastic at least at this stage--of course, if he continues to pout or have tantrums it might be worth considering.

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

Resign and apologize to the fans of NY for being the worst GM in the NHL since his arrival.

For years we were unable to even reach the playoffs. Then we were told that our farm system is the envy of the league. As all of the young guys, one by one, prove to be overhyped garbage - besides Staal and Lundqvist - and it becomes more apparent hat his stint here is an utter disaster.

I still hope that Girardi recaptures his abilities of last year which would give us 3 good NHL players out of the hordes he has drafted.

It is amazing that he hasn't drafted an NHL impact forward in all of these years.

Maybe after the punching bag Malik is no longer here it will become apparent to those that believe that Malik is somehow a focal point of what ails the Rangers. Nah, the masses will find a new punching bag, probably Renney.


Girardi was undrafted ;)

I do get your point though, however, I do not think that Slats is entirely to blame for the duds of first round picks we've had over the years. It all starts with scouting, and if the scouting reports the Gm receives are faulty and unreliable, then there is a great chance that draft picks may turn out to be garbage.

Malik was even halfway decent at the beginning of THIS year. But I think he's forgotten how to skate.

And play defense.

He was good the first year and decent the beginning of last year.

Malik was really good his 1st 2 years as as a Ranger, He has NEVER RECOVERED FROM HIS PLAYOFF GAFFE that cost us thar series against Buffalo

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

Resign and apologize to the fans of NY for being the worst GM in the NHL since his arrival.

For years we were unable to even reach the playoffs. Then we were told that our farm system is the envy of the league. As all of the young guys, one by one, prove to be overhyped garbage - besides Staal and Lundqvist - and it becomes more apparent hat his stint here is an utter disaster.

I still hope that Girardi recaptures his abilities of last year which would give us 3 good NHL players out of the hordes he has drafted.

It is amazing that he hasn't drafted an NHL impact forward in all of these years.

Maybe after the punching bag Malik is no longer here it will become apparent to those that believe that Malik is somehow a focal point of what ails the Rangers. Nah, the masses will find a new punching bag, probably Renney.
its funny how its always the same people saying the same annoying, frustrating things that make you go, WTH is wrong with you?

chosen.. rcallahan..


as for malik.. he's lucky if he's on the team past February.

Malik was really good his 1st 2 years as as a Ranger, He has NEVER RECOVERED FROM HIS PLAYOFF GAFFE that cost us thar series against Buffalo

the poster was right, he was only good his first year then half of last year, and personally i wouldn't even consider him good just ok.

he has been terrible for a year now.

Not sure if anyone heard this already...but I just wanted to throw this out there from Dellapina's Blog:

"Upon being informed that he would be the defenseman sitting out tonight to make room for Strudwick, Malik reacted angrily.

He put on his overcoat and stormed out of the Rangers’ lockerroom and into the Edmonton night. Where he was going was unclear"

Hopefully back to the Czech Republic.

Malik was really good his 1st 2 years as as a Ranger, He has NEVER RECOVERED FROM HIS PLAYOFF GAFFE that cost us thar series against Buffalo

the poster was right, he was only good his first year then half of last year, and personally i wouldn't even consider him good just ok.

he has been terrible for a year now.

Yeah Malik was really good that first year here. I wouldn't say his gaffe cost us the series against Buffalo, If we had won game 5 which we had in our hands we probably still would have won the series. Malik's play hit an all time low this year. He looks like a completely different player. Any correlation between the fans' booing and the decline of Malik's play? Who knows. One would think pro athletes can shrug that sort of thing off but they are human.

Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6746/fallentrafficconena7.jpg

:handclap::handclap::yo::biglaugh:

truly enjoyable

its funny how its always the same people saying the same annoying, frustrating things that make you go, WTH is wrong with you?

chosen.. rcallahan..


as for malik.. he's lucky if he's on the team past February.

Chosen is right on the money btw...
On the other hand, Jorts....is Jorts.

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

1) Shop Malik around to the league, try and get a draft pick
2) If no one wants him, waive him and send him to Hartford
3) Bring up Baranka
4) Make Strudwick the 7th defenseman

Bingo. Our defense is instantly better and more mobile.

YES! If anyone has seen Hartford play this year, in addition to the one game he played up here, Baranka has def got it. You can tell he is an NHL Dman.

I would actually like to see Struds get some time at forward on the 4th line....maybe over Colton. I know this disrupts Renney's "Orr" project.

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

Resign and apologize to the fans of NY for being the worst GM in the NHL since his arrival.

For years we were unable to even reach the playoffs. Then we were told that our farm system is the envy of the league. As all of the young guys, one by one, prove to be overhyped garbage - besides Staal and Lundqvist - and it becomes more apparent hat his stint here is an utter disaster.

I still hope that Girardi recaptures his abilities of last year which would give us 3 good NHL players out of the hordes he has drafted.

It is amazing that he hasn't drafted an NHL impact forward in all of these years.

Maybe after the punching bag Malik is no longer here it will become apparent to those that believe that Malik is somehow a focal point of what ails the Rangers. Nah, the masses will find a new punching bag, probably Renney.

I think Girardi was and undrafted FA...but either way. I agree.

I think Girardi was and undrafted FA...but either way. I agree.

Girardi was undrafted.

I think Baranka comes up at the all-star break. Last year Renney and the staff went down there to see who could potentially get called up. Hopefully they see that Baranka's got "it" and they send Malik packing.

its funny how its always the same people saying the same annoying, frustrating things that make you go, WTH is wrong with you?

chosen.. rcallahan..




As usual, you could not argue the facts by telling us all of all the great forwards Sather has drafted. It's easier to attack the messenger than prove the messenger wrong, especially for some.

Once or twice it's anecdotal. When it becomes a pattern it becomes a sign that there is nothing of substance to say, but continue to post your nuggets, if for no other reason than they amuse me and expose you.

YES! If anyone has seen Hartford play this year, in addition to the one game he played up here, Baranka has def got it. You can tell he is an NHL Dman.

I would actually like to see Struds get some time at forward on the 4th line....maybe over Colton. I know this disrupts Renney's "Orr" project.

I also wonder why Baranka isn't in the lineup over Struds. Ivan had more hits in 1 game than Malik has had the whole season.

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

Resign and apologize to the fans of NY for being the worst GM in the NHL since his arrival.

For years we were unable to even reach the playoffs. Then we were told that our farm system is the envy of the league. As all of the young guys, one by one, prove to be overhyped garbage - besides Staal and Lundqvist - and it becomes more apparent hat his stint here is an utter disaster.

I still hope that Girardi recaptures his abilities of last year which would give us 3 good NHL players out of the hordes he has drafted.

It is amazing that he hasn't drafted an NHL impact forward in all of these years.

Maybe after the punching bag Malik is no longer here it will become apparent to those that believe that Malik is somehow a focal point of what ails the Rangers. Nah, the masses will find a new punching bag, probably Renney.

The following gms have been worse since Sather came to the Rangers

Ferguson
Lombardi
Feaster
Armstrong
Lowe
MOC
Maclean
Keenan

Those have all clearly been worse and some have been fired for their efforts. Sather is not that bad, look at what he took over and look where they are now.

If I'm Sather, here's what I do:

Resign and apologize to the fans of NY for being the worst GM in the NHL since his arrival.

For years we were unable to even reach the playoffs. Then we were told that our farm system is the envy of the league. As all of the young guys, one by one, prove to be overhyped garbage - besides Staal and Lundqvist - and it becomes more apparent hat his stint here is an utter disaster.

I still hope that Girardi recaptures his abilities of last year which would give us 3 good NHL players out of the hordes he has drafted.

It is amazing that he hasn't drafted an NHL impact forward in all of these years.

Maybe after the punching bag Malik is no longer here it will become apparent to those that believe that Malik is somehow a focal point of what ails the Rangers. Nah, the masses will find a new punching bag, probably Renney.

Give it a rest, Chosen! Sather is far from the worst GM in the league. If any apology is necessary it should come from Malik for stealing $3,000,000 this season and whining about his deserved demotion.

Sather's draft philosphy has been building this team from the goalie out. If you look at this team we are set in goal and have a good young corp of defensman. I agree that there have been no franchise forwards drafted other than the 2002 draft who would you have drafted?

If Malik is dealt/traded I'd love to see Baranka up with the big club. I think he has earned a shot with the Rangers and in his 1 game he played solid. In mean he's in his 3rd season in the AHL. I think he is ready for the NHL.

Is he healthy though?

The following gms have been worse since Sather came to the Rangers

Ferguson
Lombardi
Feaster
Armstrong
Lowe
MOC
Maclean
Keenan

Those have all clearly been worse and some have been fired for their efforts. Sather is not that bad, look at what he took over and look where they are now.

You are wasting your time. Chosen is convinced that Malik is a Norris Trophy capable d-man who is underappreciated in NY and that Sather has done everything wrong and that only sheer luck has gotten the Rangers into the playoffs the last couple of seasons!:sarcasm:

You are wasting your time. Chosen is convinced that Malik is a Norris Trophy capable d-man who is underappreciated in NY and that Sather has done everything wrong and that only sheer luck has gotten the Rangers into the playoffs the last couple of seasons!:sarcasm:

When you have to grossly exaggerate to make a point you make no point at all. I have posted repeatedly here that Malik has played poorly this year but why should facts interfere.

If you think I have ever claimed that Malik is a Norris Trophy candidate you need to read closer. The truth is that you know I never wrote any such thing.

Give it a rest, Chosen! Sather is far from the worst GM in the league. If any apology is necessary it should come from Malik for stealing $3,000,000 this season and whining about his deserved demotion.

Sather's draft philosphy has been building this team from the goalie out. If you look at this team we are set in goal and have a good young corp of defensman. I agree that there have been no franchise forwards drafted other than the 2002 draft who would you have drafted?

I am not a GM. It is not my job to conduct drafts. That job belongs to Sather.

The Rangers have acquired in Sather's entire tenure:

A franchise goaltender.

One potentially great defenseman in Staal.

A probably going to be good defenseman in Girardi.

An average defenseman in Tyutin.

A possibly good forward in Dubinsky.

This is building a winner after how many drafts?

Who replaces Jagr, Shanahan and Straka as offensive threats when they leave?

If Cherry doesn't pan out can you think of one who will?

Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6746/fallentrafficconena7.jpg

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!

When you have to grossly exaggerate to make a point you make no point at all. I have posted repeatedly here that Malik has played poorly this year but why should facts interfere.

If you think I have ever claimed that Malik is a Norris Trophy candidate you need to read closer. The truth is that you know I never wrote any such thing.

I guess you missed the sarcasm in the post. Truth be told you've taken many a poster to task for criticizing Malik. Most posters will tell you that he has probably been our worst defensman this season!

I am not a GM. It is not my job to conduct drafts. That job belongs to Sather.

The Rangers have acquired in Sather's entire tenure:

A franchise goaltender.

One potentially great defenseman in Staal.

A probably going to be good defenseman in Girardi.

An average defenseman in Tyutin.

A possibly good forward in Dubinsky.

This is building a winner after how many drafts?

Who replaces Jagr, Shanahan and Straka as offensive threats when they leave?

If Cherry doesn't pan out can you think of one who will?


Clark is runing the draft table anyway, not Sather...but, with that said. You left out Bobby Sanguinetti, who is arguable the best offensive defenceman in Jr hockey.

Also left out Anisimov who has tons of potential.

The reality of it is the Rangers under Sather have drafted quite well for themselves.

I am not a GM. It is not my job to conduct drafts. That job belongs to Sather.

The Rangers have acquired in Sather's entire tenure:

A franchise goaltender.

One potentially great defenseman in Staal.

A probably going to be good defenseman in Girardi.

An average defenseman in Tyutin.

A possibly good forward in Dubinsky.

This is building a winner after how many drafts?

Who replaces Jagr, Shanahan and Straka as offensive threats when they leave?

If Cherry doesn't pan out can you think of one who will?

Compare him to other GM's who have drafted in the middle of the pack year after year! For the most part the GM's that have done better have usually drafted in the top of the draft. When is the last time the Rangers have had a top 5 pick??? Given our draft position Sather has done OK -- not great but certainly not horrible. Just like you constantly complain about no one giving Malik a break you do the same with Sather.

The following gms have been worse since Sather came to the Rangers

Ferguson
Lombardi
Feaster
Armstrong
Lowe
MOC
Maclean
Keenan

Those have all clearly been worse and some have been fired for their efforts. Sather is not that bad, look at what he took over and look where they are now.

Ferguson has been a GM for only 3 seasons. Too early to know how he has done.

Lombardi, during his tenure as Sharks GM, drafted Patrick Marleau, Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan, Marco Sturm and Marcel Goc in the first round along with Evgeni Nabokov, Jonathan Cheechoo, Vesa Toskala, Mark Smith, Ryane Clowe and Christian Ehrhoff in the later rounds. Much better than Sather.

Lowe has drafted Hemsky, Stoll, Cogliano and Gagner, not a great record but I wouldn't mind any of those forwards on the current Rangers roster.

Feaster has won a Cup since Sather took over the Rangers but has probably done a worse job at the draft table.

Armstrong is a bust to date, having only drafted Niskanen.

McLean drafted Klesla, Leclaire, Nash (traded up to get him), Joakin Lindstrom (early but I like what I've seen so far), Zherdev, Fritsche and Brule. Far better than Sather.

Keenan is a head case but a great short term coach. I think that while at Florida he drafted Olesz, Booth but he had a very short tenure, unlike Sather.

Sather might not be the worst but even by who you offer up, in my opinion they have for the most part done better than Sather and let's not forget that Sather had deep pockets while here. That is how he got Jagr. Picture this team without Jagr and it's downright scary.

I guess you missed the sarcasm in the post. Truth be told you've taken many a poster to task for criticizing Malik. Most posters will tell you that he has probably been our worst defensman this season!

I did miss the sarcasm, sorry. Malik may be our worst defender this year and I have taken many to task for what I feel is over the top criticism of Malik here and at the Garden.

Even playing poorly, he is better than Strudwick and Mara in my opinion. The fact that Giradi has regressed this season and that Tyutin is looking more and more like an average NHL defenseman (Hey, I wish I was one, don't get me wrong) also is happening right in front of our eyes but even when Malik is scratched and the Rangers lose, posts appear denigrating Malik instead of the players who have just lost and played poorly.

My central points remain that over the previous two years Malik played very well and was still hammered here, undeservedly so, primarily because he is big and does not hit.

The other point is that Sather has been an unmitigated disater yet we read endless threads about Malik and Renney. Sather is a man of teflon, for a reason that I have yet to understand.

Clark is runing the draft table anyway, not Sather...but, with that said. You left out Bobby Sanguinetti, who is arguable the best offensive defenceman in Jr hockey.

Also left out Anisimov who has tons of potential.

The reality of it is the Rangers under Sather have drafted quite well for themselves.

Two points:

If Sather is not running the drafts, why is he here? If Clark has been doing the damage, why is he still here? Responsibility for failure should always be placed at the top.

I never argued potentially who may or may not make it. Sanguinetti and Anisimov might turn out to be great but they may turn out to be busts. Every NHL team has players in the system that they hope will make it big.

The fact is, that the ones who have shown up have been very disappointing. Prucha, Callahan, Dawes, Jessiman not to mention the ones that haven't shown up like Falardeau.

I admit that if some of the others do make it then Sather will have done a good job. To date he has been an abject bust.

If Sather's name was something else he would have been gone a long time ago. He is living off a phony GM legend.

How many years would you give Sather to prove himself?

Just like you constantly complain about no one giving Malik a break you do the same with Sather.

I have given Sather 10 years to prove he knows what he is doing. How long is an appropriate time?

I have given Sather 10 years to prove he knows what he is doing. How long is an appropriate time?

You still haven't responded to my question. Given the position we've consistently drafted has Sather really done that badly? Unlike the Isles, Penguins, Blue Jackets, Lightning and many other teams the Rangers have hardly ever gotten a top 5 draft choice. Sather hasn't had a chance to draft a slam dunk prospect like a Lecavilier, Nash, Klesla, Marleau, Crosby or Malkin. He's consistently drafted closer to the #10 spot. Penguins had all those top 5 drafts and are they that much better than the Rangers? Sure they've got great forwards but their d stinks and right now MAF doesn't look like such a great goalie, does he?? The Isles also had a run of great draft picks and where are they?? How about the Capitals? All these teams have holes. The Rangers are solid as anyone up the middle. They don't have a top end, game breaking forward. I can recall more than one team winning the cup without a premier forward -- not too many have won without great goaltending and d. I agree with Sather, I'd rather build from the goalie on out!

trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks

trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks

Wish it were that simple.

If Malik is dealt/traded I'd love to see Baranka up with the big club. I think he has earned a shot with the Rangers and in his 1 game he played solid. In mean he's in his 3rd season in the AHL. I think he is ready for the NHL.

Is he healthy though?

Not at the moment. He hasn't played since December 28th at Springfield.

trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks

y adam foote? just get a better dman thats not being paid 2.5 mill and or if u do get one making that much, make sure hes worth the 2.5 mill and not a zombie

We'll take Malik in Atlanta if you'll take Klee :sarcasm:

y adam foote? just get a better dman thats not being paid 2.5 mill and or if u do get one making that much, make sure hes worth the 2.5 mill and not a zombie

i only said adam foote because the rangers were supposedly interested in him, and hopefully he wouldnt cost too much, and him over malik is a massive upgrade imo.

i only said adam foote because the rangers were supposedly interested in him, and hopefully he wouldnt cost too much, and him over malik is a massive upgrade imo.

Older, but massive - i agree.

Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6746/fallentrafficconena7.jpg

:clap:

OMG, I know it's early in the year and all, I can't imagine ever a funnier post than this.

The following gms have been worse since Sather came to the Rangers

Ferguson
Lombardi
Feaster
Armstrong
Lowe
MOC
Maclean
Keenan

Those have all clearly been worse and some have been fired for their efforts. Sather is not that bad, look at what he took over and look where they are now.

Didn't Lowe and the Oilers go to the Stanley Cup Finals 2 years ago? I don't think that qualifies as being a bad GM, even if the team is struggling now.

I did miss the sarcasm, sorry. Malik may be our worst defender this year and I have taken many to task for what I feel is over the top criticism of Malik here and at the Garden.

Even playing poorly, he is better than Strudwick and Mara in my opinion. The fact that Giradi has regressed this season and that Tyutin is looking more and more like an average NHL defenseman (Hey, I wish I was one, don't get me wrong) also is happening right in front of our eyes but even when Malik is scratched and the Rangers lose, posts appear denigrating Malik instead of the players who have just lost and played poorly.

My central points remain that over the previous two years Malik played very well and was still hammered here, undeservedly so, primarily because he is big and does not hit.

The other point is that Sather has been an unmitigated disater yet we read endless threads about Malik and Renney. Sather is a man of teflon, for a reason that I have yet to understand.

Pretty much agree with all points you've made on this thread Chosen. I will say that I wasn't thrilled by the Malik signing--and predicted that he would be hated here by the end of his contract--but will acknowledge that he played pretty well up to this year. And even now, as far as I'm concerned, he's still an every day NHL defenseman, albeit one who is on the downside of his career and needs to have his minutes monitored more closely. But Strudwick in the lineup regularly over him? That's insane.

As for Sather: whatever hope I had for him when he was signed is long gone. It's nice to see some homegrown kids in the lineup, but none of them (besides Lundqvist and Staal) looks like the type of player who forms a core of young players you build around and expect a championship from. The curtain has been pulled back many times and left him exposed, but Sather still manages to survive because of the team he put together over 20 years ago. Teflon indeed.

Ferguson has been a GM for only 3 seasons. Too early to know how he has done.

Lombardi, during his tenure as Sharks GM, drafted Patrick Marleau, Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan, Marco Sturm and Marcel Goc in the first round along with Evgeni Nabokov, Jonathan Cheechoo, Vesa Toskala, Mark Smith, Ryane Clowe and Christian Ehrhoff in the later rounds. Much better than Sather.

Lowe has drafted Hemsky, Stoll, Cogliano and Gagner, not a great record but I wouldn't mind any of those forwards on the current Rangers roster.

Feaster has won a Cup since Sather took over the Rangers but has probably done a worse job at the draft table.

Armstrong is a bust to date, having only drafted Niskanen.

McLean drafted Klesla, Leclaire, Nash (traded up to get him), Joakin Lindstrom (early but I like what I've seen so far), Zherdev, Fritsche and Brule. Far better than Sather.

Keenan is a head case but a great short term coach. I think that while at Florida he drafted Olesz, Booth but he had a very short tenure, unlike Sather.

Sather might not be the worst but even by who you offer up, in my opinion they have for the most part done better than Sather and let's not forget that Sather had deep pockets while here. That is how he got Jagr. Picture this team without Jagr and it's downright scary.

Maclean's drafting record should be stricken because he had high pick after high pick because he was never able to ice a good team. Feaster inherited a team that went on to win a cup, since the cup his teams have been progressively worse. Lombardi has been a total bust so far in LA leading one to believe that his drafting success in San Jose was due more to a strong scouting staff that was already in place. Looking at draft results is not the best way to look at how good a gm is. When Lowe took over the Oilers they were a playoff team and now they are a luaghing stock of the league. When Sather took over the Rangers they were a laughing stock and now they are legitimatly good. I understand you are frustrated this team is not in a class of its own in the league, but Sather has been far from the worst gm.

Not sure if anyone heard this already...but I just wanted to throw this out there from Dellapina's Blog:

"Upon being informed that he would be the defenseman sitting out tonight to make room for Strudwick, Malik reacted angrily.

He put on his overcoat and stormed out of the Rangers’ lockerroom and into the Edmonton night. Where he was going was unclear"


"That's what I want!" "I don't want Marek out there, I want the Rocket!"- Tom Renney

"That's what I want!" "I don't want Marek out there, I want the Rocket!"- Tom Renney

:biglaugh::lol:

Anyway, I hope they get rid of Malik. I was not much of a detractor until recently, but his play has really gone down this season and I think it's because he and New York just don't get along; he's just not a good fit for the team. All the crap Rangers fans gave him last season (without merit) seems to have affected him and now he's actually playing poorly. Unfortunately he won't clear waivers so we can't stick him in Hartford with Pock and I don't wait to just waive the guy so we have to stick with him until someone's willing to trade for him.

Maclean's drafting record should be stricken because he had high pick after high pick because he was never able to ice a good team. Feaster inherited a team that went on to win a cup, since the cup his teams have been progressively worse. Lombardi has been a total bust so far in LA leading one to believe that his drafting success in San Jose was due more to a strong scouting staff that was already in place. Looking at draft results is not the best way to look at how good a gm is. When Lowe took over the Oilers they were a playoff team and now they are a luaghing stock of the league. When Sather took over the Rangers they were a laughing stock and now they are legitimatly good. I understand you are frustrated this team is not in a class of its own in the league, but Sather has been far from the worst gm.

I think Garth Snow has to be the worst, letting Asham and Smyth go while signing sim, jackman and resign simon :shakehead

Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6746/fallentrafficconena7.jpg

Fantastic.

Malik walked a very thin line here in NY because he was a big defenseman who didn't play physical. Historically our fan base likes to get on big players who don't hit, fight or clear the front of the net. Fans tend to be more patient/forgiving with players who play physcial. If your a soft player you almost have to play mistake free hockey because if you don't everyone is waiting to jump on you. The technical term for this behavior is called the Willie Huber Condition.

You still haven't responded to my question. Given the position we've consistently drafted has Sather really done that badly?

I have, and the answer is an emphatic yes.


I can recall more than one team winning the cup without a premier forward

Who?


-- I agree with Sather, I'd rather build from the goalie on out!

I can't believe that anyone believes this drivel. Sather isn't building from the goal out. He got lucky that Lundqvist is a franchise goalie. He didn't take him in the first round. It's convenient to have a policy after the results are in.

You haven't responded to my question:

How long would you give Sather?

Lombardi has been a total bust so far in LA leading one to believe that his drafting success in San Jose was due more to a strong scouting staff that was already in place.

How long has Lombardi been in LA? How long has Sather been in NY?

I have, and the answer is an emphatic yes.

Who?

Right off the top of my head how about the Devils, the Ducks and the Canes. None of those teams had a Crosby, Lemeuix (not including Claude), or Gretzky. All 3 teams had solid to great goaltending. The Ducks and the Devils had a corp of d-men that was excellent. All 3 teams had a good group of forwards (not much better then what we have right now).


I can't believe that anyone believes this drivel. Sather isn't building from the goal out. He got lucky that Lundqvist is a franchise goalie. He didn't take him in the first round. It's convenient to have a policy after the results are in.

You haven't responded to my question:

How long would you give Sather?

Yeah just like he got unlucky that the previous franchise goaltender (Blackburn) suffered a freak injury that killed his career. If Blackburn doesn't get injured we don't waste the Montoya pick and probably could have ended up drafting a great forward. You could also say that he got lucky that Staal fell to him. I will counter by saying we got unlucky with all the concussion problems our d-men have been having over the last couple of years. Bottom line -- luck runs both ways. If Blackburn had recoverd and the Rangers hadn't been forced to draft Montoya where would this team be?

Finally as to your question -- why would I advocate firing a gm whose taken an organization that he inherited with no prospects whatsoever and built a fairly solid prospect base. When Sather took over how many players under the age of 25 did we have on the team? How about in the system? Look at our AHL teams going back to 1999 and 2000. We had a bunch of career AHL'ers with very few legit prospects. Although this organization certainly lacks top end offensive talent we are strong in net, have a very solid group of young d-men, and have a good group of forwards. You don't need to look any further than the Pack and the # of players that we had at the WJC to confirm that.

If you are equating success with winning the Cup then most every GM in the NHL should be fired. There are a bunch of teams that haven't won squat in the last 10 years -- does this mean all of their GM's failed? I am looking for constant improvement in the standings at the NHL and AHL level. Over the last 3 years we've certainly seen an improvement at every level. Why fire Sather?

On the Sather years--It took a long time for Glen to get a clue here. Pre-lockout there was too little attention paid to the draft and player development. We were very lucky that Lundqvist panned out the way he did. Post-lockout we've stocked up on a number of very good prospects--an acceptable number has made its way to the NHL--though not all are still here. It seems however that there are a number of top prospects in Hartford all competing for the same premium ice time and while the team plays well together and wins more often than not--most of them as individuals have not taken the next step to separate themselves from each other. Jessiman is just showing that he's a legit AHL player. Bourret and Korpikoski are not wowing anybody. Montoya may be regressing. Apart from Dawes a smallish type goalscorer--maybe not the most rounded and Moore a much larger all around forward none of the Wolfpack's forwards seem ready to push for a spot--that is unless we see the likes of a Byers pushing either an Orr or a Hollweg off the 4th line. There is Anisimov and Cherepanov. Sauer has had a so-so season and Baranka is injured again. What I'm saying is I'm not sure what we're going to get out of all of this. With so many of our players going UFA in the summer--to make any big moves like we did last year probably means a few of these prospects are going to be Rangers next year.

Now as for Malik, Mara and Strudwick I don't see how any of them--the way they've played this year fit in. At this point Malik--easily the fans most abused player is 32.
He does not deserve a pay raise and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't want out of here. At his age I would say his days in the NHL are numbered--maybe a couple more seasons somewhere else. If anyone of the three were to stay I'd rather it be Mara--who is 28, has size and skill--though he's not using either enough--and at $3 mil he definitely does not deserve more. Strudwick at 32 is old, slow and a borderline NHL/AHL player. We can do better than him and honestly I'd rather that Baranka replaced him now.

Right off the top of my head how about the Devils, the Ducks and the Canes. None of those teams had a Crosby, Lemeuix (not including Claude), or Gretzky. All 3 teams had solid to great goaltending. The Ducks and the Devils had a corp of d-men that was excellent. All 3 teams had a good group of forwards (not much better then what we have right now).




Yeah just like he got unlucky that the previous franchise goaltender (Blackburn) suffered a freak injury that killed his career. If Blackburn doesn't get injured we don't waste the Montoya pick and probably could have ended up drafting a great forward. You could also say that he got lucky that Staal fell to him. I will counter by saying we got unlucky with all the concussion problems our d-men have been having over the last couple of years. Bottom line -- luck runs both ways. If Blackburn had recoverd and the Rangers hadn't been forced to draft Montoya where would this team be?

Finally as to your question -- why would I advocate firing a gm whose taken an organization that he inherited with no prospects whatsoever and built a fairly solid prospect base. When Sather took over how many players under the age of 25 did we have on the team? How about in the system? Look at our AHL teams going back to 1999 and 2000. We had a bunch of career AHL'ers with very few legit prospects. Although this organization certainly lacks top end offensive talent we are strong in net, have a very solid group of young d-men, and have a good group of forwards. You don't need to look any further than the Pack and the # of players that we had at the WJC to confirm that.

If you are equating success with winning the Cup then most every GM in the NHL should be fired. There are a bunch of teams that haven't won squat in the last 10 years -- does this mean all of their GM's failed? I am looking for constant improvement in the standings at the NHL and AHL level. Over the last 3 years we've certainly seen an improvement at every level. Why fire Sather?


I don't have time right now to answer point by point but I will tonight.

One thing concerning luck. The Rangers have been incredibly lucky on the injury front in recent memory despite some fans moaning about it. When you look around the league at which team has lost important players for any length of time, very few have fared as luckily as the Rangers.

I also know that it is not fashionable to say it but Blackburn didn't impress me in the least.

Unlike past years this team doesn't have too much problems. It is well balanced and I am sure will come back to normal pretty soon after unsuccessful road trip. The only problem we have is uneducated and sometimes outright moronic fans that know very little about game of hockey. The latest story with Malik is a good example. Being unable in principle to know the difference between good and bad defenseman they jump on the guy out frustration the way they did with Tom Poti who has already proved them wrong with his career of above average NHL blueliner. Or Sandis Ozolinch who is now with Sharks and his current play is something any of NYR Ds should learn from.
If Sather has anything left in his head he and his coaches should apologize to the guy and get him back in the lineup. As for fans, I would treat them as a mushrooms: keep'em in the dark and feed'em crap. They deserve no better. This thread is good indication of it. :rant::rant:

Unlike past years this team doesn't have too much problems. It is well balanced and I am sure will come back to normal pretty soon after unsuccessful road trip. The only problem we have is uneducated and sometimes outright moronic fans that know very little about game of hockey. The latest story with Malik is a good example. Being unable in principle to know the difference between good and bad defenseman they jump on the guy out frustration the way they did with Tom Poti who has already proved them wrong with his career of above average NHL blueliner. Or Sandis Ozolinch who is now with Sharks and his current play is something any of NYR Ds should learn from.
If Sather has anything left in his head he and his coaches should apologize to the guy and get him back in the lineup. As for fans, I would treat them as a mushrooms: keep'em in the dark and feed'em crap. They deserve no better. This thread is good indication of it. :rant::rant:

Wow...there are fans who aren't students of the game? There's a friggin' surprise.

Or Sandis Ozolinch who is now with Sharks and his current play is something any of NYR Ds should learn from.

So you were happy with Ozo's play as an NYR?

Fan's aren't responding to a player's resume, and they can't predict how a player might play in the future with a different team. If you don't think the level of Malik's play is a problem, then we disagree. Yah, some people take it too far. I fail to see how you giving those fans the same treatment they give Malik is constructive an in way.

I don't have time right now to answer point by point but I will tonight.

One thing concerning luck. The Rangers have been incredibly lucky on the injury front in recent memory despite some fans moaning about it. When you look around the league at which team has lost important players for any length of time, very few have fared as luckily as the Rangers.

I also know that it is not fashionable to say it but Blackburn didn't impress me in the least.

Fine, we can continue this tonite. As to the injuries I disagree. Name any other team that has lost two high 1st round draft choices in the last ten years to career ending injuires like we have. Blackburn had his flaws but to play in the NHL at his age and play as well as he did showed alot of promise for a very productive NHL career! Was he the second coming of Patrick Roy? We will never know that answer!

So you were happy with Ozo's play as an NYR?
In '06 playoffs, no. In Nov. 2006, yes.
You're not going to build anything if you question your materials every time. I, for instance, do not like the way Staal and Girardi play now. Staal poor ability to block shots often gets him out of play. Girardi lacks patience with premium NHL forwards. Do I want them out? Hell, no. They are the future of our defense. Does that make them better then Malik? No. Malik is an experienced veteran that had those deficiencies past him years ago. He can be an example for both Mark and Dan.

Fan's aren't responding to a player's resume, and they can't predict how a player might play in the future with a different team.

I know. That is what pisses me off. I happen to believe that true fan of sport, should not use that as an excuse. I am sorry for being rude and condescending.

If you don't think the level of Malik's play is a problem, then we disagree.
Malik does not play the way he use to. Neither does Shanahan, for example. That doesn't mean that any stinker could go after Marek or Brendan. Even our rivals do not dare that.

Two points:

If Sather is not running the drafts, why is he here? If Clark has been doing the damage, why is he still here? Responsibility for failure should always be placed at the top.

I never argued potentially who may or may not make it. Sanguinetti and Anisimov might turn out to be great but they may turn out to be busts. Every NHL team has players in the system that they hope will make it big.

The fact is, that the ones who have shown up have been very disappointing. Prucha, Callahan, Dawes, Jessiman not to mention the ones that haven't shown up like Falardeau.

I admit that if some of the others do make it then Sather will have done a good job. To date he has been an abject bust.

If Sather's name was something else he would have been gone a long time ago. He is living off a phony GM legend.

How many years would you give Sather to prove himself?

I am sure Sather has some say in the drafts, but Gordie Clark running the table is OK in my book. The guy has drafted some tremendous hockey players over the years. As far as doing the damage....What damage?

I wouldn't exactly call Prucha a bust. He has put together a couple of pretty good seasons, and even though he is having a hard time this season finding the back of the net, for a 7th or 8th round pick(whenever it was it was late), the guy to me is a gem.

Sather also moved up in the draft to pick up Staal, a move which so far looks like it has been the right one. Staal is definately showing at a very young age that he certainly belongs here. One of the better young defenseman in the game.


In Henrik, they have arguably a top three netminder in the game today. What was he drafted 7th round or something? Granted Christer Rockstrom probably had something to do with that, but still...Team would kill to have this guy. He is an excellent pick that was taken during Sather's tenure.


Onto Montoya, who IMO is another very solid prospect, and ranked as the highest goaltender available at the time. Plus the team certainly needed that position filled after the Blackburn injury. IMO a very solid pick.

How about Dubinsky in the 2nd round or whater he was? He may only have put up 13 point this season so far, but this kid clearly belongs in the NHL. He outworks most of his opponents on a nightly basis. He is a bull down low, goes into high traffic areas, he isn't afraid to defend himself or his teammates, he is a good skater who has good size. He makes plays everygame. And just becuase the points aren't racking up for him so far, IMO he is one of the most exciting prospects in the system.

Still in Hartford Brodie Dupont, who was drafted I believe in the 2nd or 3rd round. At the time the knock on the guy was his inability to find the back of the net. After he was drafted he blossomed into an excellent leader for the Hitment, and also found his scoring touch. Still developing in Hartford, but will eventually crack the lineup.

Anisimov, maybe the Rangers got lucky he fell to the 2nd round. The guy was ranked as high as 15th overall I believe by some of the scouting services in 06.

When looking at the players drafted during his tenure, IMO the Rangers have made leaps and bounds since he has come here. Not just through the drafts, but in the moves he has made also. The Avery trade was one of the best moves I have seen a GM make for this team. The Jagr trade for who Anson Carter? A total steal, and while he was at it how about getting Wash to pay half of the guys salary since he has been here. That was Sathers doing, and...the results were one of the most successful players the team has had in the last 20 years. A guy that broke Graves scoring recored, and the guy most responsible for getting thris club back into the playoffs for the past 2 seasons.

The list of good moves he has made goes on and on here.

Roszival- FA signing a guy that was mediocre in Pitt, and became the Rangers top defenceman.
Girardi- FA signing, undrafted gem.
Jagr- Via trade and arguably the most talented player to ever wear a Ranger uniform. Plus he was able to succeed here where countless talented other players failed
Nylander- I believe via free agency...paired with Jagr was arguable the biggest impact center the team has had since Gretz retired 11 seasons ago.
Straka- Excellent signing, works great with Jagr, hustles his arse off, and Slats got his for what $3,000,000?
Shanny- UFA signing...His actions speak for themselves.

The list goes on and on...and just becuase the team has had a hard time scoring goals this season, they are still very much in the race, and IMO far better off than their record suggests.

But to me, i just don't understand the Sather hate here. He has build a solid team in NY, with a salary cap that makes it extremely hard to keep players happy enough to want to play under this type of pressure. IMO Glen Sather has been one of the best things to happen to this club in the past ten seasons.

trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks

Mannnn....Trade him for some Nachos.









...With Cheese.

Mannnn....Trade him for some Nachos.









...With Cheese.

The cheese will cost a 7th rounder. :)

Good, can we trade him and get Ward back?

If i were him, i would DEMAND a trade. I would have my agent kick Sather's door down and DEMAND a trade.

He doesn't have to, I'm sure he's being shopped. Problem is, NO ONE WANTS HIM!

If Renney had any real guts he would bench Jagr already!

Amen Brother!

Too many times I've seen him loose the puck, then hook the guy and take a bad penalty rather than skate after him. That and his unwillingness to skate hard to get back and play defense, except occasionally, is enough. It's not fair to hold everyone on the team to a certain standard, except the Captain, who is supposed to be leading by example.

He's not benched because Jagr wouldn't react positively and would make a horrible situation.

I don't think any coach in the history of sports would do that (OK, there may be a couple, but 95%+ would not). Should Jagr sit a couple shifts and get a 15 minute game? Perhaps. Sit out a couple PPs? Perhaps. That's about it though.

I love how you guys allow Chosen to completely derail you from your points and topics to only agrue the stupid tangents he wants to argue.

I assume your point about Sather is that he isn't being held accountable for his poor 1st 4 years. Wrong. And Emphatic "No".

Do you remember the "Fire Sather" chants? Do you remember the fans and media trying to run him out of town as an angry mob? Did you read countless threads here or anywhere completely tearing Sather apart?

Sounds like accountability to me and it sounds like just about the same treatment Malik is getting. Same chants, same articles, same discussions. The only difference is Sather turned his game around. He is getting his job done now. We don't for get the pre-lockout years and we really don't forgive him for it. Like Malik, Sather tried to do too much (win the cup with a horrible team). To continue the analogy, Sather "turned over" tons of prospects and decent players for garbage... teams constantly converted on Sather's bad decisions. Then Sather got back to basics, stopped trying to please the fanbase and forgot about the cup for a few years. Suddenly the boos stopped.

You make a valid point about no franchise forwards in the system but you underestimate the value Sather has found in the draft, exaggerate the situation toward the negative. You skip over Sanguinette, Anisimov and a handful of others to make your point sound better. What was it you said before? When you have to exaggerate to make a point you don't really have a point at all? hmmm.

Look, I know you hate the way the fans treat Malik, but it's nothing new and its nothing different. His attitude doesn't help the situation. Maybe he's acting appropiately but the fact is it aggitates the fans even more. You don't understand why Girardi is getting a pass for his slipping play. It's simple, Girardi still plays as hard as he can every night, every shift. He makes enough smart plays to convince you that his bad ones are the exception, not the other way around. He tries every second on the ice. New York appreciates that. Malik committs 3 or 4 mortal sins every game and that is why the fans turn on him. Don't hustle, turn the puck over and complain about the fans... that's the recipe for a hostle fan base.

I am sure Sather has some say in the drafts, but Gordie Clark running the table is OK in my book. The guy has drafted some tremendous hockey players over the years. As far as doing the damage....What damage?

I wouldn't exactly call Prucha a bust. He has put together a couple of pretty good seasons, and even though he is having a hard time this season finding the back of the net, for a 7th or 8th round pick(whenever it was it was late), the guy to me is a gem.

Sather also moved up in the draft to pick up Staal, a move which so far looks like it has been the right one. Staal is definately showing at a very young age that he certainly belongs here. One of the better young defenseman in the game.


In Henrik, they have arguably a top three netminder in the game today. What was he drafted 7th round or something? Granted Christer Rockstrom probably had something to do with that, but still...Team would kill to have this guy. He is an excellent pick that was taken during Sather's tenure.


Onto Montoya, who IMO is another very solid prospect, and ranked as the highest goaltender available at the time. Plus the team certainly needed that position filled after the Blackburn injury. IMO a very solid pick.

How about Dubinsky in the 2nd round or whater he was? He may only have put up 13 point this season so far, but this kid clearly belongs in the NHL. He outworks most of his opponents on a nightly basis. He is a bull down low, goes into high traffic areas, he isn't afraid to defend himself or his teammates, he is a good skater who has good size. He makes plays everygame. And just becuase the points aren't racking up for him so far, IMO he is one of the most exciting prospects in the system.

Still in Hartford Brodie Dupont, who was drafted I believe in the 2nd or 3rd round. At the time the knock on the guy was his inability to find the back of the net. After he was drafted he blossomed into an excellent leader for the Hitment, and also found his scoring touch. Still developing in Hartford, but will eventually crack the lineup.

Anisimov, maybe the Rangers got lucky he fell to the 2nd round. The guy was ranked as high as 15th overall I believe by some of the scouting services in 06.

When looking at the players drafted during his tenure, IMO the Rangers have made leaps and bounds since he has come here. Not just through the drafts, but in the moves he has made also. The Avery trade was one of the best moves I have seen a GM make for this team. The Jagr trade for who Anson Carter? A total steal, and while he was at it how about getting Wash to pay half of the guys salary since he has been here. That was Sathers doing, and...the results were one of the most successful players the team has had in the last 20 years. A guy that broke Graves scoring recored, and the guy most responsible for getting thris club back into the playoffs for the past 2 seasons.

The list of good moves he has made goes on and on here.

Roszival- FA signing a guy that was mediocre in Pitt, and became the Rangers top defenceman.
Girardi- FA signing, undrafted gem.
Jagr- Via trade and arguably the most talented player to ever wear a Ranger uniform. Plus he was able to succeed here where countless talented other players failed
Nylander- I believe via free agency...paired with Jagr was arguable the biggest impact center the team has had since Gretz retired 11 seasons ago.
Straka- Excellent signing, works great with Jagr, hustles his arse off, and Slats got his for what $3,000,000?
Shanny- UFA signing...His actions speak for themselves.

The list goes on and on...and just becuase the team has had a hard time scoring goals this season, they are still very much in the race, and IMO far better off than their record suggests.

But to me, i just don't understand the Sather hate here. He has build a solid team in NY, with a salary cap that makes it extremely hard to keep players happy enough to want to play under this type of pressure. IMO Glen Sather has been one of the best things to happen to this club in the past ten seasons.

I have no problems with his work with free agents, only drafting. The bulk of what you point to as drafting skills is at best unproven so far.

This notion that the team is so good is also different than what I am seeing on the ice. They look like a slightly better than average team and considering that the major part of their offensive players are near the end of the line, my view of their future is dimmer than yours.

Give it a rest, Chosen! Sather is far from the worst GM in the league. If any apology is necessary it should come from Malik for stealing $3,000,000 this season and whining about his deserved demotion.

Sather's draft philosphy has been building this team from the goalie out. If you look at this team we are set in goal and have a good young corp of defensman. I agree that there have been no franchise forwards drafted other than the 2002 draft who would you have drafted?

If building this team from the goalie out was his goal, why is his current starter a 6th round pick?

If building this team from the goalie out was his goal, why is his current starter a 6th round pick?

Because his 10th overall starter is retired and his 6th overall starter is currently developing in the AHL.

I love how you guys allow Chosen to completely derail you from your points and topics to only agrue the stupid tangents he wants to argue.

Yeah, let's stay on topic. Malik sucks. Let's have 5 more threads this week saying Malik sucks. Let's stay on topic people.


I assume your point about Sather is that he isn't being held accountable for his poor 1st 4 years. Wrong. And Emphatic "No".

Do you remember the "Fire Sather" chants? Do you remember the fans and media trying to run him out of town as an angry mob? Did you read countless threads here or anywhere completely tearing Sather apart?

Sounds like accountability to me and it sounds like just about the same treatment Malik is getting. Same chants, same articles, same discussions. The only difference is Sather turned his game around. He is getting his job done now. We don't for get the pre-lockout years and we really don't forgive him for it. Like Malik, Sather tried to do too much (win the cup with a horrible team). To continue the analogy, Sather "turned over" tons of prospects and decent players for garbage... teams constantly converted on Sather's bad decisions. Then Sather got back to basics, stopped trying to please the fanbase and forgot about the cup for a few years. Suddenly the boos stopped.

You make a valid point about no franchise forwards in the system but you underestimate the value Sather has found in the draft, exaggerate the situation toward the negative. You skip over Sanguinette, Anisimov and a handful of others to make your point sound better. What was it you said before? When you have to exaggerate to make a point you don't really have a point at all? hmmm.

Maybe you missed the point where I clearly wrote that if these guys turn out to be good then he will have done a good job. hmmmmmm.

Sather was saved from his own stupidity by the lockout. You make it seem like he had some sort of revelation about how to manage. He had no choice. He was no longer able to be downright stupid because of the confines of the cap.

When he couldn't be the same kind of stupid in Edmonton he was a horrendous GM for a decade. Sather is one of the best myths in the game. He stepped in **** when Gretzky and Messier dropped in his lap. The two greatest players ever together on a team and he won as a coach with them. Before coming to NY he had exactly one good draft in his entire NHL career as a GM.

Look, I know you hate the way the fans treat Malik, but it's nothing new and its nothing different. His attitude doesn't help the situation. Maybe he's acting appropiately but the fact is it aggitates the fans even more. You don't understand why Girardi is getting a pass for his slipping play. It's simple, Girardi still plays as hard as he can every night, every shift. He makes enough smart plays to convince you that his bad ones are the exception, not the other way around. He tries every second on the ice. New York appreciates that. Malik committs 3 or 4 mortal sins every game and that is why the fans turn on him. Don't hustle, turn the puck over and complain about the fans... that's the recipe for a hostle fan base.

This last section is utter nonsense. To say that Malik doesn't try is just plain stupid unless you are saying that Sather, Renney and all of the Rangers are blathering idiots who can't see what you think you see.

Little guys always look like they are trying because their legs have to churn to gain as much ice as larger players do with less strides. This is just plain physics.

If Giradi is playing much better than Malik this year why is his +/- so much worse? The excuse for these stats used to be that Malik is saved by playing with Jagr. What is the reasoning now?

This notion that Malik commits multiple mortal sins, if true, would be evident in statistics. Numbers just don't lie. People's perceptions can be off but numbers are facts. Why isn't he a huge minus if he is playing the way you say?

Girardi is given a pass for two reasons. He is young and he has added an offensive side to his game. He will be a better defenseman than Malik. Right now he just isn't playing well no matter how much you prefer his style over Malik's.

Would I rather have Girardi than Malik? Of course. Do I think that Malik is as bad as you? No. It is for this reasoning that you and a few others have a problem with what I post on this topic. I'm sorry that I can't always follow groupthink. I have a different opinion than you. Can you imagine that? I don't feel the need to pile on when I think it is undeserved. Blasphemy.

I accept that there will be endless threads bashing Malik. You're going to have to accept that not everyone has to join these threads with hearty endorsements of the mob idea. I am allowed to have a contrary opinion.

Numbers are facts. Observations are opinions. I will continue to voice my opinions until the Mods decide otherwise. Whether you feel my points are tangential is meaningless to me.

If building this team from the goalie out was his goal, why is his current starter a 6th round pick?

Do the names Dan Blackburn and Al Montoya mean anything? The Rangers have spent two first round draft choices in the last decade on goalies. Whats that tell you?

Do the names Dan Blackburn and Al Montoya mean anything? The Rangers have spent two first round draft choices in the last decade on goalies. Whats that tell you?

It tells me that he has made mistakes. I don't think goalies should ever be taken that high. If you look around the league the vast majority of the starting goalies were not high draft picks.

It is much easier to see a blue chip forward make it in the NHL, as projected, as opposed to a blue chip goalie striking gold. I loved when the announcers at the NHL draft ridiculed Sather for taking Montoya when he did. You never hear announcers goof on a GM in any sport like they openly laughed at Sather that day.

Sorry for not responding to your other post, as promised. Some personal things came up.

without arguing +/- much, I will point this out. In past years Malik spent a majority of his ice time with Jagr. He also spent a lot of that ice time against top lines (while with Jagr). The plusses, well, we know where they come from.

This season, the strategy has been somewhat different. Girardi has faced a lot of the top competition. Some of that has been with Betts out there (few goals and therefore few plusses), and I think somewhere in the middle Drury was facing some competition (again, few goals), and Jagr has not been putting up the plusses.

I'm not trying to get into a debate on the +/- again, but I thought I'd throw out something that is close to fact and not wage much of an opinion out there.

I will say, though, that the minuses are racking up because there would have to be a heck of a lot of goals at even strength to get Girardi to around a +10/+15, which is where Malik likely was at the midpoint the last couple season. I'd gather that overall the team has slipped in terms of +/- this season compared to the last two, and I don't know if I'd put a lot of that blame on the defensemen.

It tells me that he has made mistakes. I don't think goalies should ever be taken that high. If you look around the league the vast majority of the starting goalies were not high draft picks.

It is much easier to see a blue chip forward make it in the NHL, as projected, as opposed to a blue chip goalie striking gold. I loved when the announcers at the NHL draft ridiculed Sather for taking Montoya when he did. You never hear announcers goof on a GM in any sport like they openly laughed at Sather that day.

Sorry for not responding to your other post, as promised. Some personal things came up.

Here is a list of 1st round goalies in the league who start:

MAF
Lehtonen
Cam Ward
Toivenen
Leclaire
DiPietro
Biron
Luongo
JS Giguere
Brodeur
Kolzig

Up and comers:
Carey Price (real soon)
Justin Pogge (soon)
Bernier(soon)
Tuuka Rask
Coery Schneider
Al Montoya
Riku Helenius
Leland Irving


There are also a # who have been considered good/great for some season's ncluding:
Dan Cloutier
Jocelyn Thibault
Brian Boucher

So almost half the leagues starters are 1st round picks. In a year or two that # will probably be over half.

It tells me that he has made mistakes. I don't think goalies should ever be taken that high. If you look around the league the vast majority of the starting goalies were not high draft picks.

It is much easier to see a blue chip forward make it in the NHL, as projected, as opposed to a blue chip goalie striking gold. I loved when the announcers at the NHL draft ridiculed Sather for taking Montoya when he did. You never hear announcers goof on a GM in any sport like they openly laughed at Sather that day.

Sorry for not responding to your other post, as promised. Some personal things came up.

How about Pascal LeClaire, MA Fluery, Roberto Luongo, Carey Price and Dippy -- to name a few. Seems to be two schools of thought on goalies. You either go for a pretty sure thing by drafting them early or you hope to get a late round steal (Lundqvist or Hasek). As to Montoya don't forget that at the time most people still expected Blackburn to come back -- that was the head scratcher. Obviously Sather and company had their doubts to this and felt they had to take a goalie. Can't blame him for that one!

Doesn't really matter. Your opinion is that Sather has f---ed the pooch in his time as a GM. I actually think he's done a pretty good job. You think most of the fans are too harsh on Malik. I think he's earned the treatment. I have no problem with people who have different opinions as long as they are respectful of other people that may disagree with them. I actually enjoy our conversations -- you make good points (even if I think they are far fetched)!:naughty:

Here is a list of 1st round goalies in the league who start:

MAF
Lehtonen
Cam Ward
Toivenen
Leclaire
DiPietro
Biron
Luongo
JS Giguere
Brodeur
Kolzig

Up and comers:
Carey Price (real soon)
Justin Pogge (soon)
Bernier(soon)
Tuuka Rask
Coery Schneider
Al Montoya
Riku Helenius
Leland Irving


There are also a # who have been considered good/great for some season's ncluding:
Dan Cloutier
Jocelyn Thibault
Brian Boucher

So almost half the leagues starters are 1st round picks. In a year or two that # will probably be over half.

Wow! You spent alot more time on this they I can afford right now. Good job -- that's a pretty good list and some really good names on it!

Wow! You spent alot more time on this they I can afford right now. Good job -- that's a pretty good list and some really good names on it!

yeah completely bored at work

Yeah, let's stay on topic. Malik sucks. Let's have 5 more threads this week saying Malik sucks. Let's stay on topic people.

I didn't start this or the other 4 Malik threads, but go through any of them and anybody can find you slamming anti-Malik people by bringing up Prucha, Callahan, Sather, Renney, Jagr or anyone besides Malik. You hardly ever debate Malik himself. You distract everyone with rhetoric and supposed logic like, "if Sather is doing a bad job then you can't boo Malik until you boo him". No, players do not have to be judged relative to the rest of the team or organization. Then can be judged in a bubble.


Maybe you missed the point where I clearly wrote that if these guys turn out to be good then he will have done a good job. hmmmmmm.

Sather was saved from his own stupidity by the lockout. You make it seem like he had some sort of revelation about how to manage. He had no choice. He was no longer able to be downright stupid because of the confines of the cap.

When he couldn't be the same kind of stupid in Edmonton he was a horrendous GM for a decade. Sather is one of the best myths in the game. He stepped in **** when Gretzky and Messier dropped in his lap. The two greatest players ever together on a team and he won as a coach with them. Before coming to NY he had exactly one good draft in his entire NHL career as a GM.

And maybe you missed the part where I utterly destroyed your weak logic. Maybe Sather's moves will pan out an he'll be judged as a sufficient GM for NYR. That's irrelevant to the debate right now. What's relevant is you feel like Sather got a pass for his poor performances unlike Malik. My point is he got judged and judged harshly for his crappy GMing prior to the lockout. I don't care how he turned the corner, the point is Malik is getting beat up by the fans just like Sather did. If Renney handcuffs Malik and it somehow turns him into a decent defenseman the fans won't care... they'll stop booing.

This last section is utter nonsense. To say that Malik doesn't try is just plain stupid unless you are saying that Sather, Renney and all of the Rangers are blathering idiots who can't see what you think you see.

I didn't say he doesn't try, I said he doesn't try his hardest. Girardi battles. He battles to stay in the play if he gets beat, he doesn't allow people to waltz around him. He might lose the 1 on 1, but there is a priced paid by the opposition to get there.

Little guys always look like they are trying because their legs have to churn to gain as much ice as larger players do with less strides. This is just plain physics.

If Giradi is playing much better than Malik this year why is his +/- so much worse? The excuse for these stats used to be that Malik is saved by playing with Jagr. What is the reasoning now?

This notion that Malik commits multiple mortal sins, if true, would be evident in statistics. Numbers just don't lie. People's perceptions can be off but numbers are facts. Why isn't he a huge minus if he is playing the way you say?

Girardi is given a pass for two reasons. He is young and he has added an offensive side to his game. He will be a better defenseman than Malik. Right now he just isn't playing well no matter how much you prefer his style over Malik's.

Just because he's a plus doesn't mean he doesn't turn the puck over with regularity. Turning the puck over doesn't always result in a goal against. Not everything is explained by your precious stats. There are stories between the numbers, stories you ignore because they don't serve your point. Just because Malik has a better +-than somebody doesn't mean his passing is safer or better.

Would I rather have Girardi than Malik? Of course. Do I think that Malik is as bad as you? No. It is for this reasoning that you and a few others have a problem with what I post on this topic. I'm sorry that I can't always follow groupthink. I have a different opinion than you. Can you imagine that? I don't feel the need to pile on when I think it is undeserved. Blasphemy.

I accept that there will be endless threads bashing Malik. You're going to have to accept that not everyone has to join these threads with hearty endorsements of the mob idea. I am allowed to have a contrary opinion.

Numbers are facts. Observations are opinions. I will continue to voice my opinions until the Mods decide otherwise. Whether you feel my points are tangential is meaningless to me.

You know what, up yours. I could care less what you think. I don't bash you for liking Malik, you're just taking low blows here to give your points validity. I don't beat people into submission, I debate the points. You want to attack me, well I'm done glossing over that, I'm bringing it back to you. Make me out to be some kind of a fascist or narrowminded fool because you out think me on some silly message board.

You know what, up yours. I could care less what you think. I don't bash you for liking Malik, you're just taking low blows here to give your points validity. I don't beat people into submission, I debate the points. You want to attack me, well I'm done glossing over that, I'm bringing it back to you. Make me out to be some kind of a fascist or narrowminded fool because you out think me on some silly message board.

Low blows are pointing to statistics to advocate my view?

Who is not debating the points? What was the first thing you wrote about me in this thread? Was it complimentary? Did it have anything to do with hockey? Did I write anything similar to you?

Up mine? I could give a great response to that one but the Mods, after they stopped laughing, would be forced to suspend me.

Fletch - I think it was you who wrote something about the relative merits of +/- season to season and what you say is true. I don't look at +/- as something that can be compared from year to year or from team to team within the same year.

The only value at all of +/- is within any given team in any given year. It is not an absolute, foolproof way of judging the value of a player but I think it has gone from being considered an overrated gauge to an underrated gauge.

Simply put, no player could be as bad as some maintain Malik is and not be minus. No player can be as bad as some maintain and lead the team in +/- by a huge margin as he did last year. Over a week or month, perhaps. Over multiple seasons, it can no longer be luck.

At least you manage to disagree with me at times without getting nuts about it. That is why we never have the types of discussions that folks like Mugerya and I engage in. Thanks for respecting an opinion that may differ from yours. I get along with a few kids in the sandbox.

and that was me. I use it as a tool, but not an absolute to say XYZ defenseman is great because of it. I think we're on the same page regarding +/-.

And I have to agree on Malik. I can't say that over the last two years he's been as bad as people have said. He's had more than his share of bad shifts and bad games. He's had more than his share of being bailed out (statistically) by Jagr (on the plus side) and Lundqvist (on the minus side). BUT, you're not a better-than-(+20 or +30) in two consecutive seasons and deemed to be horrible defensively.

I'm not a Malik fan. I've made that clear in many posts. I went through a lot of detail a couple seasons ago to point out each shift to show that overall, he was doing poorly. But you don't consistently put up those stats if you're horrific. Can't be done.

We know why many do not like Malik. His gaffes appear to be highlighted because they are usually pretty big (he's an accurate passer, and I think he has confidence in his passes and thus he makes more high-risk passes (and with Jagr out there with him (in the past), he's more apt to try that pass). Most do not like because he doesn't hit, and he's so big yet we see Gionta beat him along the boards (which is a funny sight). Further, he operates effortlessly. He remains very calm and unpanicked out there, even when it appears there should be more urgency (and everyone likes guys who play like the little enging that could). He has good recovery because if he gets beat, he turns around and can still recover without moving.

Those are the reasons why people don't like him, I believe. Much like those who loved Brad Brown, who couldn't skate or be in position, but fought and sometimes hit hard. And this season has been rough - possibly due to injuries, as this season he hasn't played well at all, for the most part (although much of the defense has not played well overall, save Staal (and I'm not saying that because he's 20 years old - he's been this team's most consistent defenseman this season)). Whatever the reason, I think the writing's on the wall Malik's days are numbered.

and that was me. I use it as a tool, but not an absolute to say XYZ defenseman is great because of it. I think we're on the same page regarding +/-.

And I have to agree on Malik. I can't say that over the last two years he's been as bad as people have said. He's had more than his share of bad shifts and bad games. He's had more than his share of being bailed out (statistically) by Jagr (on the plus side) and Lundqvist (on the minus side). BUT, you're not a better-than-(+20 or +30) in two consecutive seasons and deemed to be horrible defensively.

I'm not a Malik fan. I've made that clear in many posts. I went through a lot of detail a couple seasons ago to point out each shift to show that overall, he was doing poorly. But you don't consistently put up those stats if you're horrific. Can't be done.

We know why many do not like Malik. His gaffes appear to be highlighted because they are usually pretty big (he's an accurate passer, and I think he has confidence in his passes and thus he makes more high-risk passes (and with Jagr out there with him (in the past), he's more apt to try that pass). Most do not like because he doesn't hit, and he's so big yet we see Gionta beat him along the boards (which is a funny sight). Further, he operates effortlessly. He remains very calm and unpanicked out there, even when it appears there should be more urgency (and everyone likes guys who play like the little enging that could). He has good recovery because if he gets beat, he turns around and can still recover without moving.

Those are the reasons why people don't like him, I believe. Much like those who loved Brad Brown, who couldn't skate or be in position, but fought and sometimes hit hard. And this season has been rough - possibly due to injuries, as this season he hasn't played well at all, for the most part (although much of the defense has not played well overall, save Staal (and I'm not saying that because he's 20 years old - he's been this team's most consistent defenseman this season)). Whatever the reason, I think the writing's on the wall Malik's days are numbered.

Staal is by far our best defenseman, already. He really might turn out to be Sather's best pick as GM, except for Lundqvist. I still think Girardi will turn out very well but his ceiling is well below Staal's. I'm disappointed in Tyutin. He's okay but nothing more. He could still get better but I can't see him ever being a first pair guy.

I agree that Malik is not nearly as good as in previous years. Whether he has regressed, or the game has evolved away from him, or the pressure of being booed by ignorant fans in his own building, or something else isn't important anymore. For everyone's sake it would be better if he left but if he stays and fans continue to boo him (and of course they will) these same fans will only be having a negative impact on the team they profess to support.

It's sad that players like Purinton and Orr are fan darlings while far more talented players can be booed because they don't hit or fight. I've seen it for enough years to understand that that is just the way some fans are and there's nothing that can be done about it.

Of all the ideas tossed around about Malik, the most pathetic is that he doesn't try. You can't be in the NHL without amazing dedication.

Staal is by far our best defenseman, already. He really might turn out to be Sather's best pick as GM, except for Lundqvist. I still think Girardi will turn out very well but his ceiling is well below Staal's. I'm disappointed in Tyutin. He's okay but nothing more. He could still get better but I can't see him ever being a first pair guy.

I agree that Malik is not nearly as good as in previous years. Whether he has regressed, or the game has evolved away from him, or the pressure of being booed by ignorant fans in his own building, or something else isn't important anymore. For everyone's sake it would be better if he left but if he stays and fans continue to boo him (and of course they will) these same fans will only be having a negative impact on the team they profess to support.

It's sad that players like Purinton and Orr are fan darlings while far more talented players can be booed because they don't hit or fight. I've seen it for enough years to understand that that is just the way some fans are and there's nothing that can be done about it.

Of all the ideas tossed around about Malik, the most pathetic is that he doesn't try. You can't be in the NHL without amazing dedication.


Malik is holding on by a thread. At least with the Rangers.

on Girardi - I think he's trying to provide a bit too much offense and his game is suffering as a result. I think the same of Rozsival - who I thought was quite good defensively the last couple years but has regressed, but is putting up the points (and have alluded to the notion he's padding his stats because of free agency and is thus playing for a contract).

I do think Malik's problem is not 100% his problem but more a problem of the unit of five with which he's played. The unit played well as a group and accumulated stats and wins as a group (from Lundqvist out to Jagr). With Jagr struggling early on, Malik also struggled and the unit as a whole did not function well. I think Prucha's PP woes have been a by-product of similar woes of a unit, as well as Straka, etc.

EDIT: On Purinton - oddly enough I liked him most when he was not fighting (never seemed to pick the right time to fight - i.e., starting a fight in the offensive zone with the Rangers down a goal). When he didn't play like an idiot, and kept it simple, he seemed quite useful. The funny thing about him is that he never played very physical. Wasn't a good or frequent bodychecker. Didn't clear the crease. That was odd to me.