The 4th line battle...who is in and who is out?

So, with Brandon Bochenski coming onboard and God coming back soon, the train is getting a wee bit crowded on the backend. Here are the contestants.

Ryan Carter
George Parros
Drew Miller
Todd Marchant
Brian Sutherby
Brandon Bochenski
Brad May (IR)

Out of this bunch, I think that Ryan Carter has looked amazing in the last few games. Because of the waiver issue though, I can see Miller and Carter being sent down. That is unfortunate because Carter has really provided that extra sandpaper and energy that any team could use. Miller is more of a finesse player, but has not impressed as much. Parros is a lock to be in the lineup and has looked good all year. No reason to take him out. Bochenski will be given an opportunity, but I worry that he will be able to produce on this line. Worth a shot a I suppose. Sutherby has looked pretty good...not great, but good. He is hustling and getting shots off. Marchant is a good PK'er and provides good speed/faceoff ability, so he will probably play. May provides energy and big hits, but of-course is still injured.

Big logjam. :help:

with the current roster, he'd probably be switching spots with Sutherby, giving him a try out to stay on board. looked like it was good motivation for Bobby Ryan tonight too to protect his top 6 spot. played a very good game otnihgt. good response to his demotion last game.

Miller to Portland for sure.

Marchant playing every night for sure.

keep Carter in until Pahlsson comes back.

Parros doesnt need to be in every night but needs to be up for games against minnesota or any team with an aggresive heavy weight. should be in for the chicago game with koci in. try Bochenski in for Parros against phoenix probably.

I think carters is here to stay. And Marchant handcuffed himself to the team and lost the key. Parros is a surprise this year to me what a delight.

Its really a shame the ducks don't have a lot of time to devote to their 4th line. I'd like to see a line of guys like carter/newguy bo/sutherby and such get some playtime.

I have no clue. I think the first, more important battle will be for the 2nd line (maybe 1st line) spot, then they'll duke it out for the 4th. We will probably be platooning someone on the 4th (probably May and someone else). I also wouldn't be surprised to see someone waived. If claimed, the Burke haters will be out in force. If he passes through, he'll stay in Portland to serve as a mentor.

Hmm, the 4th line battle. This is as good as watching "Dancing With Your Mom" reruns for retards on the WB or something.

Another thing about Ryan Carter is his faceoff ability. The guy is just plain ridiculous on the faceoff circle. I don't have the stats in front of me, but he wins a great majority of the ones he takes.

Out of everybody mentioned I've been the least impressed with Sutherby. Granted he's been hurt a lot but he hasn't real effective otherwise aside from the occasional scrap. I agree Carter has been solid and should stick around. Miller has been scratched the last couple of games and this doesn't bode well for him. But I don't think being sent to Portland does him any good but at this point what matters is what's good for the Ducks.

But than again, it's the fourth line so it won't be so detrimental to the team anyhow. At least we know we have plenty of bodies to fill that line.

Another thing about Ryan Carter is his faceoff ability. The guy is just plain ridiculous on the faceoff circle. I don't have the stats in front of me, but he wins a great majority of the ones he takes.68,8% (NHL.com)

Miller playing 20mins a game in the AHL is much better for him than sitting in the press-box.

Carter, Marchant, Parros and May when healthy are clearly ahead of him so it's not like he has a spot here. Bochenski probably gets a good look as well.

Miller playing 20mins a game in the AHL is much better for him than sitting in the press-box.

Carter, Marchant, Parros and May when healthy are clearly ahead of him so it's not like he has a spot here. Bochenski probably gets a good look as well.

I disagree. I really think it would be a step backwards for Drew honestly. He's been with the team almost the entire season and getting sent down would be a blow to him psychologically. He doesn't play bad when he's in the lineup, other players just simply are needed. But when he's been called upon he's stepped right in and played solid. Plus his skill set is as a defensive forward. More playing time in Portland won't really improve that than say 5-6 mins in the NHL while still practicing with the team every day.

I compare Miller to Moen in 05-06. Was scratched more often than not but stepped up when called upon and kept improving while only practicing with the team Than Hedstrom when back to Sweden and he took his spot and hasn't let it go. I can see Miller on a similar path. He's a great spare forward.

But having said all that I can see Burke sending him down simply because he doesn't have to clear waivers. But I don't think that's what's best for Drew.

I disagree. I really think it would be a step backwards for Drew honestly. He's been with the team almost the entire season and getting sent down would be a blow to him psychologically. He doesn't play bad when he's in the lineup, other players just simply are needed. But when he's been called upon he's stepped right in and played solid. Plus his skill set is as a defensive forward. More playing time in Portland won't really improve that than say 5-6 mins in the NHL while still practicing with the team every day.

I compare Miller to Moen in 05-06. Was scratched more often than not but stepped up when called upon and kept improving while only practicing with the team Than Hedstrom when back to Sweden and he took his spot and hasn't let it go. I can see Miller on a similar path. He's a great spare forward.

But having said all that I can see Burke sending him down simply because he doesn't have to clear waivers. But I don't think that's what's best for Drew.
It depends on if you think Miller has any offensive upside or not. Because he's not going to polish that if he's not playing. He was a PPG player in his junior year before leaving Michigan State, so he might have some potential. And I personally don't think NHL practice helps much in development, as I see NHL practice as more about systems while AHL practice is more about skills development (as well as systems because Portland runs the same system we do). I want Miller down to polish his offense.

As to Moen, my feeling is that he wasn't ready just practicing with the team, it was after a monster off-season that he grabbed the roster spot. Moen had the least ice time in the 06 playoffs, so the in-season practicing didn't seem to do much. But it is still possible that Drew could follow the path you described.

It depends on if you think Miller has any offensive upside or not. Because he's not going to polish that if he's not playing. He was a PPG player in his junior year before leaving Michigan State, so he might have some potential. And I personally don't think NHL practice helps much in development, as I see NHL practice as more about systems while AHL practice is more about skills development (as well as systems because Portland runs the same system we do). I want Miller down to polish his offense.

As to Moen, my feeling is that he wasn't ready just practicing with the team, it was after a monster off-season that he grabbed the roster spot. Moen had the least ice time in the 06 playoffs, so the in-season practicing didn't seem to do much. But it is still possible that Drew could follow the path you described.

Drew might have offensive upside but his future with this team is his defensive play. I see him as Robbie's replacement when his contract is up. He may have had good numbers in the USHL but didn't score a whole bunch in the CCHA. But it's not just practicing with the team it's also being part of the team. He's been here for most of the year and I'm sure is developing a comfort level. Plus he turn 24 in a month and already has a year of minor hockey under his belt and a half a year of NHL hockey. I just really don't think he can improve much more going down to Portland.

Miller is actually on the trading block is what im hearing.

Bochenski is useless as a 4th liner due to his lack of pysical play .
Carter is slowly cementing a permanent spot on this team for now and he is doing everything that's been asked of him and more. May and Sutherby 1 of them are usually injured, Parros is pretty much an everyday player. As for Marchant the team wants to desperately get rid of him, but of course no takers. Closer to the trade deadline there may be a market for him

Ideal 4th line

Parros/Carter/May or Sutherby

Drew Miller back to Portland with Pahlsson ready to come back...

http://ducks.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NHLPage&id=12887


Speaking of Sammy, he is practicing with the team as I write this, and it looks like he'll be back tomorrow since the Ducks are about to announce that they've sent Drew Miller to Portland.

Drew might have offensive upside but his future with this team is his defensive play. I see him as Robbie's replacement when his contract is up. He may have had good numbers in the USHL but didn't score a whole bunch in the CCHA. But it's not just practicing with the team it's also being part of the team. He's been here for most of the year and I'm sure is developing a comfort level. Plus he turn 24 in a month and already has a year of minor hockey under his belt and a half a year of NHL hockey. I just really don't think he can improve much more going down to Portland.
Well like I said, it depends on how much potential you think Drew has. You don't seem to think he has much, I do. So we're going to disagree on where he should be. And while I agree with you that Miller's future will be as a checker, replacing Rob or Moen, I also think he can provide more offense than they currently do. It would be huge if the checking line was just as good at checking but could also score some points.

With the news that Miller was sent down, I guess we'll just have to see if Miller looks improved in other facets of the game when he comes back up.

With the news that Miller was sent down, I guess we'll just have to see if Miller looks improved in other facets of the game when he comes back up.

Yep, we shall see.

Last year, Bochenski gelled well with Axelsson and Savard toward the end of the year. I would think he would get a shot on one of the top two lines.

Something like

Perry-Getzlaf-Bertuzzi
Kunitz-Weight-Bochenski

I'm not an avid fan of the Ducks, but your top 6 without Selanne looks pretty solid with the acquisitions.

Last year, Bochenski gelled well with Axelsson and Savard toward the end of the year. I would think he would get a shot on one of the top two lines.

Something like

Perry-Getzlaf-Bertuzzi
Kunitz-Weight-Bochenski

I'm not an avid fan of the Ducks, but your top 6 without Selanne looks pretty solid with the acquisitions.

only if Ryan starts playing poorly, which he is not.

only if Ryan starts playing poorly, which he is not.

Yeah, Ryan and Weight seem to enjoy playing together, and I'd be surprised to see the budding chemistry broken up at this point.

It really is hard to find a spot for Bochenski on the team. He's not good enough defesively or tough enough to plasy on the 4th line and is in all likelyhood not going to bump Ryan off the team. Maybe slot him in the 3rd line which is not producing anything at this point.

May-Marchant-Parros when facing a team with an enforcer.
May Marchant-Sutherby/Carter when facing a team without one.

It really is hard to find a spot for Bochenski on the team. He's not good enough defesively or tough enough to plasy on the 4th line and is in all likelyhood not going to bump Ryan off the team. Maybe slot him in the 3rd line which is not producing anything at this point.

May-Marchant-Parros when facing a team with an enforcer.
May Marchant-Sutherby/Carter when facing a team without one.

I think the Ducks should dress a tough lineup so they are the ones forcing the other team to play an enforcer. At least thats what happened last year.

only if Ryan starts playing poorly, which he is not.

There is a chance Burke sends down Ryan and replacing him with Brandon Bochenski until Selanne returns... the reason being I believe the Ducks do not want Ryan to meet his incentives. Jan 23 is the date Selanne is returning I believe.

There is a chance Burke sends down Ryan and replacing him with Brandon Bochenski until Selanne returns... the reason being I believe the Ducks do not want Ryan to meet his incentives. Jan 23 is the date Selanne is returning I believe.
While you bring up a good point that I'm sure the Ducks would prefer Ryan not to make his incentives, which ones are he going to make? Just look at the minimum allowed incentives: 20 goals, 35 assists, 60 points, .73 PPG, among top 3 on the club for +/-, all-rookie team, all-star, top 3 Calder vote, top 10 in the NHL in any statistic, etc. These are hard incentives. The only one he might have any shot at is any kind of games played bonus.

The only positive I could see is if Ryan cannot achieve 42 GP, in which case all his A bonuses (but not B bonuses) are null instantly, and the freed up bonus money could be used for Selanne. Ryan can play 52 games as is. Hmmm....

The only positive I could see is if Ryan cannot achieve 42 GP, in which case all his A bonuses (but not B bonuses) are null instantly, and the freed up bonus money could be used for Selanne. Ryan can play 52 games as is. Hmmm....

Yeah, not sure how much Selanne is going to ask for. I assume 1.5-2.0 mil.

Yeah, not sure how much Selanne is going to ask for. I assume 1.5-2.0 mil.
Well the Ducks should already have that much free. From Niedermayer's suspension, they save 3 million. Almost all of that should be available for Selanne. Furthermore, they have like 2.3 million in bonuses that Hiller isn't going to get, and 1.1 million in bonuses that Ryan probably isn't going to get. So they could give another 3.4 million in incentives to Selanne.

Another thing to make you go hmm... Some of the possible bonuses include rookie-only honors, like Calder trophy or all-rookie team. If Ryan plays 25 or more games this season, he'd be ineligible for them next season. So (I think) however many hundred thousand that might be would be subtracted from next year's tagged space. HMMMmmmm.......... If I were the GM and solely interested in money, I'd want Ryan to play exactly 25 games this season, but would send him down now for at least 11 games so the Item A bonuses are off the cap for this season. That way he loses Calder eligibility. And Selanne can get that money as direct pay, instead of bonuses.

Well the Ducks should already have that much free. From Niedermayer's suspension, they save 3 million. Almost all of that should be available for Selanne. Furthermore, they have like 2.3 million in bonuses that Hiller isn't going to get, and 1.1 million in bonuses that Ryan probably isn't going to get. So they could give another 3.4 million in incentives to Selanne.

Another thing to make you go hmm... Some of the possible bonuses include rookie-only honors, like Calder trophy or all-rookie team. If Ryan plays 25 or more games this season, he'd be ineligible for them next season. So (I think) however many hundred thousand that might be would be subtracted from next year's tagged space. HMMMmmmm.......... If I were the GM and solely interested in money, I'd want Ryan to play exactly 25 games this season, but would send him down now for at least 11 games so the Item A bonuses are off the cap for this season. That way he loses Calder eligibility. And Selanne can get that money as direct pay, instead of bonuses.

OK... lets take a look. So far Ryan has played 12 games this season, meaning he needs 13 more games to make him ineligible for some of next season bonuses. If he plays the next 10 games, his last game could be LA on the 24th. If you notice, the next few days is the All Star break. A perfect time for Selanne to return but from what I am hearing is he is returning January 23rd.

You're hearing it from where?

This question is are hard to answer right now cause Bo just got here. Let's wait and see how well Bo does before we say if he has a spot or not.

Eventually I think we will see this consistent 4th line:
Parros-Marchant-Carter/Sutherby (at least until May is healthy).

There is a chance Burke sends down Ryan and replacing him with Brandon Bochenski until Selanne returns... the reason being I believe the Ducks do not want Ryan to meet his incentives. Jan 23 is the date Selanne is returning I believe.

Youtube or it's not happening? :sarcasm:

Where did you get that from? You say it like you wrote it down somewhere, and then forgot.

OK... lets take a look. So far Ryan has played 12 games this season, meaning he needs 13 more games to make him ineligible for some of next season bonuses. If he plays the next 10 games, his last game could be LA on the 24th. If you notice, the next few days is the All Star break. A perfect time for Selanne to return but from what I am hearing is he is returning January 23rd.
Actually I'm talking about just the opposite. If Selanne wants to return, Ryan needs to be missing the next 11 games so his bonuses for this year come off the cap. Then bonus money to Selanne can become guaranteed money for Selanne. Ryan can get the 13 games at the end of the season, and soak up (hopefully) a playoff clinching run and stay for a playoff run.

And suspiciously enough (if your numbers are right), then the 11 games would be just around the time you're claiming Selanne returns. Although I think Selanne's done and you're either making stuff up or heard from someone else who's making stuff up.

This question is are hard to answer right now cause Bo just got here. Let's wait and see how well Bo does before we say if he has a spot or not.

Eventually I think we will see this consistent 4th line:
Parros-Marchant-Carter/Sutherby (at least until May is healthy).
Bo? Am I the only one who thinks of this?
http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/12inch_Donatello_TMNT-01.jpg