Mason Annouced As Starting Goaltender For Rest Of Tourney

http://tsn.ca/world_jrs/news_story/?ID=226251&hubname=

Team Canada coach Craig Hartsburg named Mason the starter for the rest of the tournament on Tuesday. The quarterfinal game can be seen live on TSN, TSN HD and TSN.ca Wednesday, at 9:30am et/6:30am pt.

Thoughts?

As an outsider, it seems like they are unfairly making Bernier the scapegoat. They have looked about equal, only Mason has played opponents much easier than Bernier. I don't know, it just seems very knee jerk and something someone who was either a very bad or very inexperienced coach would do.

Don't agree, don't like it but I'm not the coach.

There's a thread right below yours: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=460159

Bernier looked alot shakier vs Sweden than Mason has all tourney.

Suffice to say, goaltending is not an issue for this team.

Bernier looked alot shakier vs Sweden than Mason has all tourney.

I think the defence looked extremely bad against Sweden. They were allowing the Swedish forwards to have free reign in front of the net and between the hash marks. Certainly there were probably two goals that Bernier would want to have back, but I don't agree with the decision here.

I think they need to start scoring more than 2 goals a game before they blame their goalies for losses.

As a Kings fan I know Bernier from the CHL and he really has an amazing year last year, although some would say he hasen't reached that level since he left the Kings in Oct.

I am surprised that he would name one goalie the starter but I guess he has too. The other thing is Mason hasen't done anything to not get the job. I was hoping Bernier would have played better down the strech & gurt himself the starting role.

What is atittle bit odd is how Mason played very easy games, while Bernier made the same amount of saves in the first game. In that manner I think Bernier didn't get a fair shake, but I guess we will see what happens!

It goes without saying, doesn't it? The fact he was named the starter against Finland means they're going the rest of the way with him. If he loses, they're done. If he wins, they're going to stay with him. No biggie.

I think Hartsburg fell in love with Mason's performances against two teams in the relegation wars.( No not really)

Since he is around the players a lot perhaps he and the staff sensed Bernier was shaken up by the loss. It is the only thing I can figure as Bernier was clearly the man Hartsburg expected to have for the medal round.

Hartsburg is now in panic mode as QF losing coaches generally are not seen or heard from again as far as Hockey Canada is concerned. Is it fair? No but the pressure is immense on these coaches.

Is Bernier getting the shaft here? I mean, he's played against the tougher teams right?

Bum rap for Bernier, I think he was fairly solid. Either way though, it's a nice problem to have, 2 good goalies.

I don't agree with this decision. IMO, Bernier is the more talented between the two goaltenders with more big game experience (Memorial Cup, NHL) and the loss to Sweden had more to do with defensive meltdowns than poor goaltending. Mason hasn't faced the same type of competition that Bernier has either. Playing the Czechs and Swedes is a lot different than playing the Danes and the Slovaks. Hopefully this pays off and we win another Gold, but I'm skeptical about sticking with Mason as I thought Bernier would have bounced back if given the chance to. Now we'll never know.

Bernier looked alot shakier vs Sweden than Mason has all tourney.

Mason faced powerhouses Slovakia and Denmark...You could have taken the 30th best goalie Canada could have brought to the Tourny and the results would have been the same...

I don't know about this. Bernier plays Czech Republic and Sweden while Mason plays Slovakia and Denmark? Oh well, we'll see.

I hope Canada loses just so that moron Hartsburg will never return to coach the Canadian Junior team again. He is stiffling the teams' offense with his horrible coaching methods. He did this same crap in the NHL where he was unsuccessful.

Great for Mason, ill be watching.

Bernier should have been starting this game. I don't understand why he wasn't given another shot. That loss wasn't his fault yet he seem to be unfairly blamed. I really detest this decision and Hartsburg's an idiot. IMO, Bernier's the better goalie and had to face the much tougher opponents. I feel just terrible for Bernier; this was his last chance.

... and Steve Mason continues to be one of the most underrated prospects by fans.

I hope Canada loses just so that moron Hartsburg will never return to coach the Canadian Junior team again. He is stiffling the teams' offense with his horrible coaching methods. He did this same crap in the NHL where he was unsuccessful.

Its not so much the coaching methods...its taking only 5-6 offensive forwards and the rest role player types...

I hope Canada loses just so that moron Hartsburg will never return to coach the Canadian Junior team again. He is stiffling the teams' offense with his horrible coaching methods. He did this same crap in the NHL where he was unsuccessful.
I don't think it's particularly common for coaches to return to coach the WJC multiple times (recent history notwithstanding). I doubt Hartsburg is coming back, win or lose. I hope Canada wins either way, though.

The Mason decision was certainly a tough one to make. I would have stuck with Bernier, who simply looks like the superior goaltender to me, but I can understand the need for the team to really try a shakeup. The Denmark game wasn't a very convincing example to me of a team that needed to rebound/step up doing so in any particularly noticeable way. And even if Mason played that game, I think it still counts as a "shakeup" to make the hard call, maybe the more surprising one, on Mason playing against Finland too. I guess we'll see.

I like Bernier more.

I've been more impressed by Bernier, and he's played against tougher opponents. Maybe it won't make a difference because Mason is solid too, but if I were the coach (that'll be the day) I would play Bernier.

... and Steve Mason continues to be one of the most underrated prospects by fans.

No one said he wasnt good...its just the circumstances involved.

Say hello to 6th place Canada.

... and Steve Mason continues to be one of the most underrated prospects by fans.

No one said he wasnt good...its just the circumstances involved.
I do, he's the Chris Osgood of Junior hockey. A pretty good goaltender made to look super human by the team he plays for.

I do, he's the Chris Osgood of Junior hockey. A pretty good goaltender made to look super human by the team he plays for.

I think Mason is a really good goalie, as well, but he's played in ideal situations before.

Bernier took an average team to the Memorial Cup last year, with the playoff record of 16-1, and playing on a bad knee.

Team Canada doesn't look so hot right now, and I just think that Bernier has more experience and would be better suited to handle the job. Hopefully things work out, though.

You just know that if Canada doesn't end up winning Gold, that Craig Hartsburg will have to answer plenty of questions regarding this decision. When was the last time Team Canada switched goaltenders like this in a tournament before? (Not talking about the game or two that the backup normally gets during the round robin). I honestly can't remember.

I do, he's the Chris Osgood of Junior hockey. A pretty good goaltender made to look super human by the team he plays for.

Disagree. Its obvious to me this guy makes a difference. Just look at his OHL team the London Knights for proof.

With Mason they are 20-3-2.

Without Mason they are 0-9-0.

In fact the Knights started off the season 0-6 when Mason was still up with Columbus. Since he's been on his WJC team the Knights have lost all 3 of their games.

I think its pretty safe to say he makes a pretty big difference when he's out there.

Disagree. Its obvious to me this guy makes a difference. Just look at his OHL team the London Knights for proof.

With Mason they are 20-3-2.

Without Mason they are 0-9-0.

In fact the Knights started off the season 0-6 when Mason was still up with Columbus. Since he's been on his WJC team the Knights have lost all 3 of their games.

I think its pretty safe to say he makes a pretty big difference for that "super human squad".

Come on, Shelf, don't throw things like win/loss record into the mix. This is HF, where being drafted in the first round makes you God and anyone else is a shumk.

I do, he's the Chris Osgood of Junior hockey. A pretty good goaltender made to look super human by the team he plays for.

You actually couldn't be more wrong.

Disagree. Its obvious to me this guy makes a difference. Just look at his OHL team the London Knights for proof.

With Mason they are 20-3-2.

Without Mason they are 0-9-0.

In fact the Knights started off the season 0-6 when Mason was still up with Columbus. Since he's been on his WJC team the Knights have lost all 3 of their games.

I think its pretty safe to say he makes a pretty big difference when he's out there.

Exactly, I'm a Knights season ticket holder, the Knights defense is terrible. I have no doubt, Steve Mason was the MVP of the London Knights in 2006-07. Kane and Gagner were great in one end, Kostitsyn was great in both ends, Mason was the reason the team was able to win 50+ games. With just an average starting goalie, they Knights were middle of the pack in the Western Conference last year.

With that said, I'd still like to see Bernier starting. Bernier has more big game experience, and has performed equally well in the tourney (Mason played a couple teams half the starters in the CHL could get shutouts against).

Disagree. Its obvious to me this guy makes a difference. Just look at his OHL team the London Knights for proof.

With Mason they are 20-3-2.

Without Mason they are 0-9-0.

In fact the Knights started off the season 0-6 when Mason was still up with Columbus. Since he's been on his WJC team the Knights have lost all 3 of their games.

I think its pretty safe to say he makes a pretty big difference when he's out there.

So he's better then his back up, wow, colour me shocked. Canada is done.

So he's better then his back up, wow, colour me shocked. Canada is done.

Quit being ignorant. Have you even watched the Knights play the last couple years? Their defense is less then stellar (Akim Aliu has been converted to a defenseman at the moment help is needed so badly). He's been the MVP of the team since he became starter and they've been a pretty darn good team over that time.

Quit being ignorant. Have you even watched the Knights play the last couple years? Their defense is less then stellar (Akim Aliu has been converted to a defenseman at the moment help is needed so badly). He's been the MVP of the team since he became starter and they've been a pretty darn good team over that time.

He's a good to very good Junior hockey goalie, I get that. From what I've seen out of him in both the Super Series and the WJHC, he's not good enough to take Canada to the next level. His game, his style doesn't lend itself to success in these situations.

I have no confidence that Canada can win with him in goal against an actually decent team.

I don't doubt that Steve Mason is a talented goaltender, he is. Jonathan Bernier however should be the #1 goaltender of this team. One bad period by the entire team should not generate one whipping boy which Bernier seems to be pegged as now thanks to this decision. Had Mason been given one of the tougher games and performed well in them, I'd have a bit more confidence, but because of the teams he's played and because of the performance Bernier put on last year leading Lewiston to the Memorial Cup as well as his performance once he got there should have been enough to give him the nod and the chance to bounce back and redeem himself. We have bigger problems with this team than goaltending, but thanks to completely shattering the confidence of what's supposed to be our starter, now it is one. Should Mason struggle, how Hartsburg can go back to Bernier after this is beyond me.

So he's better then his back up, wow, colour me shocked. Canada is done.

Nice quality response. :shakehead

Point proven.

Nice quality response. :shakehead

Point proven.

What point? He's a very good Junior hockey goalie, however I have no confidence in him leading this team to a medal of any kind.

I'm fine with either, Mason played well against the Finns in exhibition.

So he's better then his back up, wow, colour me shocked. Canada is done.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Bernier is an outstanding goaltender. Mason is every bit as good. This team has played one poor period in the entire tournament and guys like you push the panic button. They gave up four goals in the third period to the Swedes (two which were total flukes) and just one in the other nine periods they have played and yet you have concluded that they're done. They may not win the gold but if someone is to beat them they will have to play one hell of a game to do it.

This team has played one poor period in the entire tournament and guys like you push the panic button.

I believe Hartsburg pushed the panic button...not the poster you quoted...

Now people disgaree with Hartsburg's opinion but I tell you if Bernier was going to start and Canada lost, people would bash him for not starting Mason.....

I believe Hartsburg pushed the panic button...not the poster you quoted...

How exactly is he pushing the panic button? He has two very good goalies to choose from. His opinion on his goaltenders happens to differ from yours. Your gut instinct tells you he should be playing Bernier, Hartsburg's instinct says Mason is the guy. I don't think he's panicked at all. I suspect he's taken many factors into account including past performance, Mason's performance against the Finn's in exhibition play, the strength and weaknesses of each goaltender and how they relate to the style of play the Finn's feature as well as the opinion of his goaltending consultant Corey Hirsch. I suspect he's spent a great deal of time making the decision insteading of rushing into a panicked decision.

The move smacks of desperation, but maybe it's time for that. QF teams rarely reach the final, let alone win gold (WJC history (http://www.worldjuniors2008.com/clanek.asp?ID=2417)).

If Canada manages to win gold, Hartsburg's a genius; if not he's a dope. Either way, he's in a better position to know what's best for his team than any of us self-anointed geniuses.

How exactly is he pushing the panic button? He has two very good goalies to choose from. His opinion on his goaltenders happens to differ from yours. Your gut instinct tells you he should be playing Bernier, Hartsburg's instinct says Mason is the guy. I don't think he's panicked at all. I suspect he's taken many factors into account including past performance, Mason's performance against the Finn's in exhibition play, the strength and weaknesses of each goaltender and how they relate to the style of play the Finn's feature as well as the opinion of his goaltending consultant Corey Hirsch. I suspect he's spent a great deal of time making the decision insteading of rushing into a panicked decision.

Its a desperation move...Bernier isn't the problem...

Mason has to be the guy to take this team because theres no way Bernier is going to be going back in...not after having started Mason for the upcoming game. If hes starting Mason because of his good start in the exhibition, than Hartsburg is failing to look long term...because like I said, Mason now has to start the remainder of the games, he is frigging around with Bernier's confidence.

Its a desperation move...Bernier isn't the problem...

Mason has to be the guy to take this team because theres no way Bernier is going to be going back in...not after having started Mason for the upcoming game. If hes starting Mason because of his good start in the exhibition, than Hartsburg is failing to look long term...because like I said, Mason now has to start the remainder of the games, he is frigging around with Bernier's confidence.

nobody is saying Bernier a problem, Hartsburg is just saying he feels Mason is better right now.

Its a desperation move...Bernier isn't the problem...

Mason has to be the guy to take this team because theres no way Bernier is going to be going back in...not after having started Mason for the upcoming game. If hes starting Mason because of his good start in the exhibition, than Hartsburg is failing to look long term...because like I said, Mason now has to start the remainder of the games, he is frigging around with Bernier's confidence.

If Bernier's psyche is as fragile as you suggest than there is a good chance Hartsburg has made the correct decision. I thought great goaltenders were supposed to be mentally tough. If Bernier is going to become the goalie everyone believes he will he's going to have to show some resiliency and be able to bounce back from a set back such as this one. Last year during the game against the US Carey Price gave up a goal where he was run through the back of the net before the puck crossed the line. It was the type of play that could unnerve any goaltender but Price put it behind him and bounced back with a great performance. If Hartsburg's decision has rendered Bernier useless for the rest of the tournament as you and others suggest than he doesn't have the mental toughness required to excel in this tournament and shouldn't be in net as a result.

nobody is saying Bernier a problem, Hartsburg is just saying he feels Mason is better right now.

It might not even be that.
It could be just as much a move to shake-up the team.
Bernier was the obvious starter going into the tournament, be it announced or not. He faced the two stronger teams in the pool and if the Sweden loss did not happen, he would, without a doubt, be the guy getting the nod for the rest of the tournament.
This announcement might be just as much directed at the team as whole, in a way to try to snap them into a higher gear/play up to their potential.

nobody is saying Bernier a problem, Hartsburg is just saying he feels Mason is better right now.

Based on what?

If he went with Mason as the #1 from the get go, i would have had no problem...

Doing it after 4 games in which Mason has faced the 2 easy teams and Bernier the 2 hardest is a bit mind boggling.

It might not even be that.
It could be just as much a move to shake-up the team.
Bernier was the obvious starter going into the tournament, be it announced or not. He faced the two stronger teams in the pool and if the Sweden loss did not happen, he would, without a doubt, be the guy getting the nod for the rest of the tournament.
This announcement might be just as much directed at the team as whole, in a way to try to snap them into a higher gear/play up to their potential.

It's a desperation move when the coach chooses to start a goalie who is clearly inferior to the other. This is not the case. Hartsburg has simply chosen the option he feels is the best one of two very good options.

If Bernier's psyche is as fragile as you suggest than there is a good chance Hartsburg has made the correct decision. I thought great goaltenders were supposed to be mentally tough. If Bernier is going to become the goalie everyone believes he will he's going to have to show some resiliency and be able to bounce back from a set back such as this one. Last year during the game against the US Carey Price gave up a goal where he was run through the back of the net before the puck crossed the line. It was the type of play that could unnerve any goaltender but Price put it behind him and bounced back with a great performance. If Hartsburg's decision has rendered Bernier useless for the rest of the tournament as you and others suggest than he doesn't have the mental toughness required to excel in this tournament and shouldn't be in net as a result.

The fact he would have about 7 days off between starts if Hartsburg was to give him the semi final game (if they beat Finland) has a lot to do with it as well.

If Canada beats the Fins...its an automatic start for Mason in the semi's...

Bernier is done in the Tourny either way...and Hartsburg is taking a huge risk.

So basically, Bernier is getting shafted because the team isn't playing well. I can only imagine how he feels right now. That Sweden game was in no way his fault but because of it, he loses out to Mason. Bernier should have been our starter. I trusted him to take us to the gold medal game.

The fact he would have about 7 days off between starts if Hartsburg was to give him the semi final game (if they beat Finland) has a lot to do with it as well.

If Canada beats the Fins...its an automatic start for Mason in the semi's...

Bernier is done in the Tourny either way...and Hartsburg is taking a huge risk.

If Canada beats Finland it likely means Mason has produced a good performance and has earned the right to play in the semi. Why does everyone think this decision is a punishment to Bernier. Maybe Hartsburg is simply rewarding Mason for what he brings to the table.

If Canada beats Finland it likely means Mason has produced a good performance and has earned the right to play in the semi. Why does everyone think this decision is a punishment to Bernier. Maybe Hartsburg is simply rewarding Mason for what he brings to the table.

It is a punishment to Bernier....how you cant see that is beyond me.

Rewarding Mason??? For what...standing in the crease and watching Canada play Denmark??

Mason hasn't had much to do in his two games and they were against much weaker opponents. Bernier faced over double the shots that Mason did as well as tougher teams, yet Mason earned it? Please. Bernier's being blamed for the Sweden loss which is absolutely ridiculous.

Mason hasn't had much to do in his two games and they were against much weaker opponents. Bernier faced over double the shots that Mason did as well as tougher teams, yet Mason earned it? Please. Bernier's being blamed for the Sweden loss which is absolutely ridiculous.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I happen to believe the decision was made because the coaching staff feels Mason is most likely to produce the kind of top notch performance the team needs to win against Finland. If Hartsburg was as vindictive as you make it sound he'd be punishing every player who has made a mistake or played a poor game. You guys obviously feel that Mason is an inferior goalie to Bernier and does not deserve to play as a result. I happen to believe that Canada has the two best goalies in the tournament and can tomorrow with either of them in goal.

I so hope Canada wins gold and those of you bashing Mason eat a huge plate of crow. It is fine to disagree with the decision, I can certainly see arguments for why Bernier deserved to stay in. However reading comments like the team is doomed now, or that Mason isnt himself an excellent junior goaltender is ridiculous. :rant: Both of these kids are awesome, the team is in good hands with either one. If Canada does not win gold, and they will win gold BTW, it wont be because they are lacking goaltending with either one. :yo:

I don't see the problem with this decision. Both Mason and Bernier are top junior level goalies and you really can't go wrong with either one. Canada isn't likely to lose because of their goalie. Its going to be the lack of scoring and the defense should it collapse again that needs to get the blame.

Disagree. Its obvious to me this guy makes a difference. Just look at his OHL team the London Knights for proof.

With Mason they are 20-3-2.

Without Mason they are 0-9-0.

In fact the Knights started off the season 0-6 when Mason was still up with Columbus. Since he's been on his WJC team the Knights have lost all 3 of their games.

I think its pretty safe to say he makes a pretty big difference when he's out there.

Thank you. That just shows that Mason is his own right is one of the very best junior goaltenders anywhere and a huge difference maker.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Bernier is an outstanding goaltender. Mason is every bit as good. This team has played one poor period in the entire tournament and guys like you push the panic button. They gave up four goals in the third period to the Swedes (two which were total flukes) and just one in the other nine periods they have played and yet you have concluded that they're done. They may not win the gold but if someone is to beat them they will have to play one hell of a game to do it.

He's really not, how many NHL games has Mason won? Mem cups has he lead his team to?

Mason is a very good Junior Hockey Goalie, Bernier is an elite goaltender for his age and an elite NHL goaltending prospect.

What panic button? The team was out played for the majority of the game and then got completely owned in the thrid period. They lack depth both up front and on the blueline. This team isn't as good us TSN would like as to believe.

I'm not necessarily critical of Hartsburg's decision; I disagree, but I understand. What I do not understand is why he didn't start Mason against Sweden. At least then both goalies would've played against a contending team and you could make an informed decision for the medal round. While Mason is a great goaltender as well, Hartsburg is going in relatively blind, so to speak.

He's really not, how many NHL games has Mason won? Mem cups has he lead his team to?

Mason is a very good Junior Hockey Goalie, Bernier is an elite goaltender for his age and an elite NHL goaltending prospect.

So just for the sake of curiousity, how many games have you seen Mason play in. Hell for that matter even Bernier? I would be very confident in wagering a substantial amount that you probably haven't seen Mason play in much more than the meaningless Super Series or the 2 games of this tournament where he wasn't tested at all. How many games that mattered? How many games where he was actually called on to step up?

You do know he was drafted in the third round by Columbus after he played only 16 games in his draft year right? That he was OHL Goaltender of the year last year?

So, as the authority on the maximum ceiling he can attain in his hockey career please do enlighten us on what has made you draw this conclusion. Other than bashing him for some reason you really haven't offered anything as to why you feel so strongly this way.

When I read through threads like this where half the posters are freaking out and making hilariously absurd statements, I'm always reminded of the scene from Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back when Jay is visualizing the world overtaken by apes and it flashes to Dante screaming, "I'm not even supposed to be here, today!!" as an ape dissects his brain.

TMYK

Just for the record Bernier impressed me until the third period of the Swedish game. I don't blame him for what happened but he was partly responsible.

But let's look at this from another angle. What if before the tournament started the coaching staff hadn't made a firm decision but were leaning towards Mason yet wanted to give Bernier a chance to prove them wrong. So they decide to play Bernier against the stiffer competition. If he shines, then it's his tournament. If he doesn't shine well they go with Mason.

It's a tough decision and I'm glad I don't have to make it.

So just for the sake of curiousity, how many games have you seen Mason play in. Hell for that matter even Bernier? I would be very confident in wagering a substantial amount that you probably haven't seen Mason play in much more than the meaningless Super Series or the 2 games of this tournament where he wasn't tested at all. How many games that mattered? How many games where he was actually called on to step up?

You do know he was drafted in the third round by Columbus after he played only 16 games in his draft year right? That he was OHL Goaltender of the year last year?

So, as the authority on the maximum ceiling he can attain in his hockey career please do enlighten us on what has made you draw this conclusion. Other than bashing him for some reason you really haven't offered anything as to why you feel so strongly this way.

I don't know 60ft wrist shot goals allowed don't fill me with confidence.

It's a desperation move when the coach chooses to start a goalie who is clearly inferior to the other. This is not the case. Hartsburg has simply chosen the option he feels is the best one of two very good options.

First, some disclosure. I have Mason on my keeper pool team, so I've followed him quite closely and obviously am glad to see him get a chance to perform on this stage.

With that out of the way, I don't think Mason is "clearly inferior" to Bernier. Bernier has a very strong pedigree (drafted in the first round), played major junior as a 16-year-old, and went to the Memorial Cup. Mason is a late bloomer. Drafted only in the third round after playing 16 games in his draft year, he has turned into one of the CHL's best goalies. How good is he? Well, we'll see. He might not be better than Bernier, but to say he is clearly inferior is not accurate, IMO.

I thought Bernier played awesome against the Czechs in Game 1 and was going to be cemented as the top guy for the rest of the tournament. I did not see the game against Sweden so I can't comment about his performance in the that game. Obviously, Mason's two wins came against weaker opponents. You can't hold it against him that the coaches started him against weaker opponents. Keep in mind, too, that it's not just Hartsburgh making this call. There is input from Clem Jodoin, too, who coached Bernier with Lewiston. Ultimately, the decision is credited to Hartsburg as the top guy, but I wonder if Hartsburg wanted to, but was reluctant to make Mason the guy from the get-go. With the loss against Sweden (not necessarily Bernier's fault, but a loss nonetheless) Hartsburg is in lose or go home territory now. He has to go with the guy he thinks can steal him a game. He thinks Mason is the guy. There might be other considerations, but he's said all along he thought he had two No. 1 goalies.

I don't know 60ft wrist shot goals allowed don't fill me with confidence.

You know, it's ok to just come out and say that you really haven't seen him play so you don't really know jack **** about him (even though you have characterized him as a "good to very good" junior goalie only) and as such are minimizing his entire career off of a fluke goal and a couple of meaningless non-competitive games.

You know, it's ok to just come out and say that you really haven't seen him play so you don't really know jack **** about him (even though you have characterized him as a "good to very good" junior goalie only) and as such are minimizing his entire career off of a fluke goal and a couple of meaningless non-competitive games.

What fluke goals, it was a 60ft wrist shot that he allowed. I don't care how well he's played in the OHL, because this isn't the OHL. He is not good enough to be a starting goalie on this team and does not give this team the best chance to win.

He proved that he can't handle this situation today. Canada did everything they could to keep Finland from having any direct shots on goal, that's really telling.

Hopefully Bernier gets the start next game.

I have no problems with either guy, but my thoughts are this. If Mason is known as a guy who gives up a bad goal, then we can't have him against the US. An early bad goal will kill Canada. We don't have the offence to overcome bad goals, today we did, but against a better team, we won't.

He proved that he can't handle this situation today. [b]Canada did everything they could to keep Finland from having any direct shots on goal[.b], that's really telling.

Whatever works... when Mason is in net the Canadian defence don't allow alot of shots... if it gets the win who cares...

Whatever works... when Mason is in net the Canadian defence don't allow alot of shots... if it gets the win who cares...

They aren't good enough to do that to the US.

Bernier better be back in against the Americans.

Is there any possibility that there could be an off-ice issue with Bernier that is prompting Hartsburg to make the announcement? On the ice, it doesn't sound like one has been clearly better than the other this tournament.

Is there any possibility that there could be an off-ice issue with Bernier that is prompting Hartsburg to make the announcement? On the ice, it doesn't sound like one has been clearly better than the other this tournament.

No, Hartsburg got beat last year in the OHL playoff by Mason's London Knights, ergo he thinks he can play at this level, he's proven in the Super Series and so far this tournament, he can't.

Neither Bernier or Mason is that good, and the team as a whole has been underwhelming to say the least. One poster said in another thread that this is one of the worst WJHC squads Canada has ever sent, and that might be right. Every time they win, I can't help feel they got lucky somehow...like somehow they don't deserve to win any game.

By rights, USA should kill them on the 4th...should be interesting...

Neither Bernier or Mason is that good, and the team as a whole has been underwhelming to say the least. One poster said in another thread that this is one of the worst WJHC squads Canada has ever sent, and that might be right. Every time they win, I can't help feel they got lucky somehow...like somehow they don't deserve to win any game.

By rights, USA should kill them on the 4th...should be interesting...

How is neither Bernier or Mason that good??? I think you'd be hardpressed to name a better teenage goalie in the world, let alone Canada. Saying they are not that good is absurd really. While this certainly isn't one of the best teams Canada has ever sent to the WJHC, it is far from the worst. I'd compare this team to the 06 version in terms of pure ability. Obviously Canada hasn't had the goaltending that Pogge provided back in 06 so far but that could still change but after that??? Quite similar teams I'd say. And I'm not sure which game Canada didn't deserve to win so far in this tournament. The only game they didn't deserve to win was against Sweden and they lost...

Hartsburg got asked the question and dodged it on TSN after the game, so I guess it's going to be a tough decision for them. Shouldn't be in my mind. He is more familiar with Mason because of the OHL link, but I think it is pretty obvious that Bernier is the guy.

For a coach who had the luxury of having two very good goaltenders, guys you can win the gold medal with, in this tournament, Hartsburg is now in a tough situation.

He's facing what has so far looked like a really strong US team, and he has to send back Mason after those two goals or Bernier after the 3rd period against Sweden and with the knowledge that they preferred Mason to him for the QF.

Fans should lay off him and recognize that he's got a tough, tough decision to make (someone might say that he's partially responsible for being in that situation but how you would have handled things differently than he did at any one point?).

Whichever goalie he chooses will leave him doubting until the game starts on Friday.

I have looked at the records of both these young guys.. and enjoyed watching them this summer in the Superseries. In my opinion these are two very good goalies that have extremely high winning percentages. Why is there no love for these tenders, and why is Mason considered such a lesser option to Bernier?

I have followed Mason... for a guy that's 6'3" he is extremely mobile, has great reflexes and very good technique. I know he was drafted 69th, but hell at that time he had backed up in London and had less than 10 starts. Draft position is not the end all. Tom Brady was drafted 190th in the sixth round.:sarcasm:

Draft position is not the end all. Tom Brady was drafted 190th in the sixth round.:sarcasm:
Yeah but i'll bet Tom Brady sucks in goal.. :sarcasm:

Bernier has one shakey period.

Mason allowed one bad goal. He was lucky the offence picked it up a notch.

USA will be tough.
Bernier will be in net.

yea mason did give up 1 bad goal the bank of his pads, but the 1st goal was not played that great by mason either he saw it all the way and it went right over his shoulder, yea i also think bernier will start against the USA but then again the canada coach might like at it as mason is the better goalie for handleing the puck, but no matter how plays in net it will be a tough game on friday!!!!!

GO CANADA

It's too bad Mason wasn't drafted by the Leafs or Habs in the first round, because if he was, he would be totally overrated instead of criminally underrated by people here. He's an outstanding goalie and I hope he starts the rest of the tourney.

How is neither Bernier or Mason that good??? I think you'd be hardpressed to name a better teenage goalie in the world, let alone Canada. Saying they are not that good is absurd really. While this certainly isn't one of the best teams Canada has ever sent to the WJHC, it is far from the worst. I'd compare this team to the 06 version in terms of pure ability. Obviously Canada hasn't had the goaltending that Pogge provided back in 06 so far but that could still change but after that??? Quite similar teams I'd say. And I'm not sure which game Canada didn't deserve to win so far in this tournament. The only game they didn't deserve to win was against Sweden and they lost...

Player selection of the Canadian squad has been bad for years. A lot of ass kissing and favoritism Fortunately even though the best team wasn't picked the team chosen was still better than the competition. We'll see if it comes back to haunt them tis time.

Problem is that both goalies are about equal, both have let in fluke goals.

But the coach will bow to pressure and satisfy the rest of Canada and play Mason because he doesnt want to upset things and eventually coach in the NHL.

Predictable as snow in winter.:shakehead

Player selection of the Canadian squad has been bad for years. A lot of ass kissing and favoritism Fortunately even though the best team wasn't picked the team chosen was still better than the competition. We'll see if it comes back to haunt them tis time.

I've heard that complaint for many years about the U.S. junior team selection process. I have not heard that complaint from players in Canada. Definitely a new one.

No, Hartsburg got beat last year in the OHL playoff by Mason's London Knights, ergo he thinks he can play at this level, he's proven in the Super Series and so far this tournament, he can't.

Hmmm, impervious to logic, or rigid in your thinking?

I've heard that complaint for many years about the U.S. junior team selection process. I have not heard that complaint from players in Canada. Definitely a new one.

I don't think it's nearly as big an issue as the NCAA vs. CHL competition that USA hockey obviously has. For the most part, Canada takes the best players for the TEAM concept. That is why some superstars are cut each and every year that surprise some people (Wojtek Wolski is the perfect example). You could easily say would guys like Godfrey and Simmonds make Team Canada if Craig Hartsburgh weren't the coach but when all is said and done, it's not nearly as big a difference as the one that USA hockey clearly displays in its selection process. You can claim he took too many Ontario players but really, who outside of Simmonds doesn't belong???

Bum rap for Bernier, I think he was fairly solid. Either way though, it's a nice problem to have, 2 good goalies.

Having one great goalie (like Price last year) would be a lot better.

I really don't like the decision here. I think there's some unfair favoritism on Hartsburg's behalf.

Hmmm, impervious to logic, or rigid in your thinking?

Then explain to me how he's on this team over last year's team member Leyland Irving? Because I can't think of one.

But the coach will bow to pressure and satisfy the rest of Canada and play Mason because he doesnt want to upset things and eventually coach in the NHL.

What gives you any indication that "the rest of Canada" wants Mason to start over Bernier? Does "the rest of Canada" even care?

Basically, Hartsburg has himself in a bit of a bind. No matter which goaltender he chooses, if the team doesn't win it all, the criticism will always be that he chose the wrong one.

Basically, Hartsburg has himself in a bit of a bind. No matter which goaltender he chooses, if the team doesn't win it all, the criticism will always be that he chose the wrong one.

Not putting him(Mason) on the team sure would have helped to avoid all of this.

I know when I hear "one of his weaknesses is he gives up bad goals" I don't want him on my Nation Junior Team, if I don't have to.

It's official, Steve Mason is starting vs. the U.S.

Then explain to me how he's on this team over last year's team member Leyland Irving? Because I can't think of one.

Perhaps Irving wasn't playing well in the tryouts?

Or maybe it is a giant conspiracy !!! I hope you're wearing your tinfoil hat just in case.

It's official, Steve Mason is starting vs. the U.S.

Canada's done.

Perhaps Irving wasn't playing well in the tryouts?

Or maybe it is a giant conspiracy !!! I hope you're wearing your tinfoil hat just in case.

I would say it's pretty clear that Leyland got the shaft in this deal.

Canada's done.

And it would probably have nothing to do with goaltending if they are "done."

And it would probably have nothing to do with goaltending if they are "done."

With Bernier in goal, they would have a shot. He's proven he can take teams places (see the Mem cup) and he's elite for his age group. Mason has proven that one of his weakness is giving up bad goals, so yeah I think Canada done.

Then explain to me how he's on this team over last year's team member Leyland Irving? Because I can't think of one.

How about because he's having a poor year?

With Bernier in goal, they would have a shot. He's proven he's can take teams places and he's elite for his age group. Mason has proven that one of his weakness is giving up bad goals, so yeah I think Canada done.

Every goal is bad. Bernier gave up a whole bunch of them against Sweden. Perhaps he deserves to start but it's not like he's this years Carey Price and we're putting him on the bench. If Canada continues to play like they have been neither goalie would make a difference.

Maybe you should just cheer for Canada instead of secretly hoping they lose so you can come on here and do more Mason bashing.

Bernier has one shakey period.

Mason allowed one bad goal. He was lucky the offence picked it up a notch.

USA will be tough.
Bernier will be in net.

Both goals against the Finland team were very shakey. I still remember that first flukey goal against Russia in the Super Series as well..

i'm sure he's a good goalie, but neither goalies give me that "safe" feeling that Carey Price gave me. Bernier was the closest to doing that until he had that one bad period...he was superman before that. I think he should have gone back to Bernier as well, but I'm not the coach, so we'll see what happens with Mason in nets against the U.S.

Every goal is bad. Bernier gave up a whole bunch of them against Sweden. Perhaps he deserves to start but it's not like he's this years Carey Price and we're putting him on the bench. If Canada continues to play like they have been neither goalie would make a difference.

Maybe you should just cheer for Canada instead of secretly hoping they lose so you can come on here and do more Mason bashing.

Ugly, that's the word you were looking for. They weren't great, but they weren't bad. Bad is a 60ft unscreened wrist shot from the blueline.

It is kind of like that yes, he's not Carey Price, but he's up near that level.

I want to see the Canadian wins, and I want to see the BEST Canadian team there, not one full of kids the coaches like.

It's clear that Leyland got the shaft and there's no way that Mason has done anything in this tournament to justify his selection.

I don't think it's nearly as big an issue as the NCAA vs. CHL competition that USA hockey obviously has. For the most part, Canada takes the best players for the TEAM concept. That is why some superstars are cut each and every year that surprise some people (Wojtek Wolski is the perfect example). You could easily say would guys like Godfrey and Simmonds make Team Canada if Craig Hartsburgh weren't the coach but when all is said and done, it's not nearly as big a difference as the one that USA hockey clearly displays in its selection process. You can claim he took too many Ontario players but really, who outside of Simmonds doesn't belong???

No, Wojtek was cut more for off-ice reasons than that he didn't fit the "right players" cliche. There's no question he would've been helpful on any team.

I hope Canada loses just so that moron Hartsburg will never return to coach the Canadian Junior team again. He is stiffling the teams' offense with his horrible coaching methods. He did this same crap in the NHL where he was unsuccessful.

agree about Hartsburg. this guy is a tit. he is proving what a idiot he is with this goaltending decision. he should never be let near a Canadian team again after this disgrace.

[QUOTE=thomasincanada;11865976]Every goal is bad. Bernier gave up a whole bunch of them against Sweden. Perhaps he deserves to start but it's not like he's this years Carey Price and we're putting him on the bench. If Canada continues to play like they have been neither goalie would make a difference.

actually, that's exactly what he is. In fact, I think he might be better. He has certainly shown more in his Junior career than Price did to this point and he's not being given the chance that Price was. I would bet that after all is said and done, Bernier will be the better goalie.

agree about Hartsburg. this guy is a tit. he is proving what a idiot he is with this goaltending decision. he should never be let near a Canadian team again after this disgrace.

Amazing the disrespect given to a man who led Canada to gold last year and hasn't yet lost gold this year.

Hartsburg is an idiot. Steve Mason was incredibly shakey and gave up two bad goals. Does he have something against Bernier? Bernier should have been the starter from the beginning but Hartsburg had to play mind games. I hate this. I was looking forward to seeing Bernier play and Hartsburg just pisses me off. So, Bernier has one bad period and the team loses while Steve Mason has a bad game but the team wins so it's all okay.

Amazing the disrespect given to a man who led Canada to gold last year and hasn't yet lost gold this year.

Hardly he had the chance to pick from more talent then he had last year, and built this lack luster squad with a poor offensive and no depth on defense.

Hartsburg is an idiot. Steve Mason was incredibly shakey and gave up two bad goals. Does he have something against Bernier? Bernier should have been the starter from the beginning but Hartsburg had to play mind games. I hate this. I was looking forward to seeing Bernier play and Hartsburg just pisses me off. So, Bernier has one bad period and the team loses while Steve Mason has a bad game but the team wins so it's all okay.

Couldn't agree more, This is an absolute TRAVESTY. I'm not even a Kings fan (Bruins) but as a Canadian fan I feel cheated. I can't believe that people (media etc.) aren't up in arms over this. Hartsburg has a man crush on Mason and we have to suffer because of it? Bernier gives us our best (and some would say ONLY) chance to win Gold. SO FRUSTRATING!

Hartsburg is an idiot. Steve Mason was incredibly shakey and gave up two bad goals. Does he have something against Bernier? Bernier should have been the starter from the beginning but Hartsburg had to play mind games. I hate this. I was looking forward to seeing Bernier play and Hartsburg just pisses me off. So, Bernier has one bad period and the team loses while Steve Mason has a bad game but the team wins so it's all okay.

Bernier - two bad goals.
Mason - two bad goals.

Pretty even, no?

Bernier played the more difficult teams and only had one bad period. I don't think any of the goals were his fault, except maybe the last one. I don't trust Mason and he isn't the right guy. Bernier was but the coach obviously doesn't like him. I had faith in Bernier to take us far; I don't have that with Mason. It's obvious that Hartsburg's playing favourites and I hate it.

Bernier played the more difficult teams and only had one bad period. I don't think any of the goals were his fault, except maybe the last one. I don't trust Mason and he isn't the right guy. Bernier was but the coach obviously doesn't like him. I had faith in Bernier to take us far; I don't have that with Mason. It's obvious that Hartsburg's playing favourites and I hate it.

How is it obvious to anyone sitting behind a computer in Canada what's going on with the team in Czech Republic?

How else do you explain him getting benched? Hartsburg played favourites and Bernier wasn't one of them.

How else do you explain him getting benched? Hartsburg played favourites and Bernier wasn't one of them.

FFS man, there could be HUNDREDS of reasons that Mason is playing over Bernier. Are you there at every practice to see how the goalies are performing? Are you talking with the players to see who they are more comfortable playing in front of? Are you there with the defenceman to see who they communicate with better? Are you with the goalies to see how they are acting or handling the pressure?

FFS man, there could be HUNDREDS of reasons that Mason is playing over Bernier. Are you there at every practice to see how the goalies are performing? Are you talking with the players to see who they are more comfortable playing in front of? Are you there with the defenceman to see who they communicate with better? Are you with the goalies to see how they are acting or handling the pressure?

Agreed!

Mason certainly didn't inspire confidence yesterday. You don't need to attack me, I just think there's more to story. I wouldn't be surprised with the way things have gone.

It has been said already that this is the classic double edged sword

I'm just thankful that at least one of them was actually annouced instead of making the game day decision, knowing your getting the nod in the do or die game against one of our biggest rivals and emerging favorites will certainly boost the confidence and focus of Mason or Bernier

At least we can all give Hartsburg props for that :golfnana:

Mason certainly didn't inspire confidence yesterday. You don't need to attack me, I just think there's more to story. I wouldn't be surprised with the way things have gone.

I'm not attacking you, and of course there's "more to the story." I just gave about five reasons why there is more to the story.

How else do you explain him getting benched? Hartsburg played favourites and Bernier wasn't one of them.

Let's see:

Played 10 seasons in the NHL, was an All-Star, captained the North Stars, has coached 5 years in the NHL, coached juniors for over 5 years, coached Team Canada to gold last year, and has been with the players since the start of camp.

But, I'll go with your interpretation of the goalie's play through watching TSN.

Cut him some slack, he is a professional and I'm willing to bet he knows what he's doing.

Mason certainly didn't inspire confidence yesterday. You don't need to attack me, I just think there's more to story. I wouldn't be surprised with the way things have gone.

I also wouldnt leave the answer to Hartsburg and Mason being buddy buddy though

It's official, Steve Mason is starting vs. the U.S.

Great to hear. Right move IMO. They guy is 3-0 and even though he let in a soft goal against the Fins he did the most important thing for his team which is win the game.

Hopefully Mason proves me wrong. I would have gone with Bernier.

One thing that stands out to me in the choice is how wonderfully Mason has moved the puck all tournament, who knows that could be the play that gives us the slight edge over the yanks

The US is a much tougher opponent than Finland. They can score a lot of goals and they've been playing fantastic hockey throughout this tournament. Bernier can steal games which is one of the many reasons I would have gone with him.

The US is a much tougher opponent than Finland. They can score a lot of goals and they've been playing fantastic hockey throughout this tournament. Bernier can steal games which is one of the many reasons I would have gone with him.

Of course he has the ability to steal them, but the real question is has he been doing this the entire tournament?

I just think there's more to story.

One thing for certain: no one on these boards knows the full story because we're not in the room. Maybe Bernier has lost his confidence. Maybe he threw a tantrum after the Sweden game. Maybe it simply comes down to the coaches hoping Mason's puckhandling will better negate an expected hard U.S. forecheck. Who knows? Certainly not me or you.

I have faith that Hockey Canada and Hartsburg have a better understanding of the situation than anyone here.

Of course he has the ability to steal them, but the real question is has he been doing this the entire tournament?

And Mason has done what? I'm sorry that's right, beat two teams who went to the religation round and looked shaky in a win against a down team Finland.

Bernier is the better goaltender, to that there is no question.

Not putting him(Mason) on the team sure would have helped to avoid all of this.

I know when I hear "one of his weaknesses is he gives up bad goals" I don't want him on my Nation Junior Team, if I don't have to.

Grant Fuhr?

Grant Fuhr?

Is a HHOFer, your point?

Fuhr's weakness was the five hole, but thank for coming out.

And Mason has done what? I'm sorry that's right, beat two teams who went to the religation round and looked shaky in a win against a down team Finland.

Bernier is the better goaltender, to that there is no question.

For now and forever his future will always be brighter than that of Mason's,

We will live and die by which ever goalie we start

If Mason lets 2 go by him in any fashion tomorrow, we will see Bernier not long afterwards

Like some have also this really isnt our biggest concern our goaltending in not comparable this year, the real test is to match the offense of the americans

Is a HHOFer, your point?

Fuhr's weakness was the five hole, but thank for coming out.

I believe his point was that Fuhr was prone to let in some bad goals, he was perhaps not the "best" goalie, yet the team won in front of him.

At least a partial correlation to what Mason is going through at the moment.

Nice condescension though! Glad to come out.

And Mason has done what? I'm sorry that's right, beat two teams who went to the religation round and looked shaky in a win against a down team Finland.

Bernier is the better goaltender, to that there is no question.

I tend to agree. Bernier had much tougher opponents and Mason has hardly looked like a world-beater in his games, even though he did win them.

This reminds me of the massive hate-on for Sam Gagner at last year's WJHC because he wasn't performing there. But how many players from last year's draft are in the NHL this year?

God, I hate Canadian hockey fans sometimes. We navel-gaze and second-guess and criticize and all think we know better than the coach.

I've seen Mason play in person about 60 times and Bernier once. They're both outstanding goalies and I have every confidence in either. Mason is not a soft goalie that gives up bad goals - he did yesterday, but one game does not a career make. He's an outstanding puck-handler, positionally sound, and extremely mentally tough.

HFBoards doesn't like Mason because he's underperformed in the three games they've ever seen him play, and because he's an OHL guy under an OHL coach, and because he's a third-rounder and only first rounders matter to most of you. As someone who's seen both goalies play live, I have every confidence in either Mason or Bernier, and I'll trust Hartsburg's decision either way he goes.

This reminds me of the massive hate-on for Sam Gagner at last year's WJHC because he wasn't performing there. But how many players from last year's draft are in the NHL this year?

God, I hate Canadian hockey fans sometimes. We navel-gaze and second-guess and criticize and all think we know better than the coach.

I've seen Mason play in person about 60 times and Bernier once. They're both outstanding goalies and I have every confidence in either. Mason is not a soft goalie that gives up bad goals - he did yesterday, but one game does not a career make. He's an outstanding puck-handler, positionally sound, and extremely mentally tough.

HFBoards doesn't like Mason because he's underperformed in the three games they've ever seen him play, and because he's an OHL guy under an OHL coach, and because he's a third-rounder and only first rounders matter to most of you. As someone who's seen both goalies play live, I have every confidence in either Mason or Bernier, and I'll trust Hartsburg's decision either way he goes.

As stated, that's nice, this isn't the OHL, this is the WJHC, and he's not the best option for Canada in goal.

As stated, that's nice, this isn't the OHL, this is the WJHC, and he's not the best option for Canada in goal.

In your opinion. And with all respect, I tend to think the opinion of someone who has watched a prospect 60 times in person is worth more than the opinion of a person who has watched them three times on television.

/just saying

In your opinion. And with all respect, I tend to think the opinion of someone who has watched a prospect 60 times in person is worth more than the opinion of a person who has watched them three times on television.

/just saying

Inversely, how accurate is your assessment comparing the two, if, as you admit, you've only seen Bernier once?
I'm not going to pull for one goaltender over another. But it could be just as possible that Mason is everything you say he is and Bernier is still a stronger goaltender.

In your opinion. And with all respect, I tend to think the opinion of someone who has watched a prospect 60 times in person is worth more than the opinion of a person who has watched them three times on television.

/just saying

I appreciate your input on Mason as I agree, I think he's a great goalie. But obvioulsy what you have seen in the OHL does not affect the present. So far in this tournament he has not been impressive with what I have seen. He seems shakey in his saves and does no inspire the type of confidence we need to beat the Yanks. With that said, he could prove us all wrong tomorrow and we could be calling him the Savior by the end of the game as he has the potential to steal games. My only concern is that i don't think he "deserves" to be there more then Bernier right now.

As mentionned, if Bernier had faced the likes of Slovakia, Denmark and Finland instead of Sweden and Czech Republic...it might be a whole different story. Bernier has really played 5 out of 6 extremely solid periods. Until that mini collapse in the third against Sweden (which I only blame him for one goal that banked off him and in the net) he was being called amazing by everybody as he looked just so damn confident, quick and dominant..people were even wondering if would give up a goal at all. i just don't find that Mason (perhaps apart from the game against Slovakia) has been tested all that much..and perhaps that'll be a problem against the U.S.

Oh well...all we can do now is root for him and Canada and hopefully they can pull through!!

Inversely, how accurate is your assessment comparing the two, if, as you admit, you've only seen Bernier once?
I'm not going to pull for one goaltender over another. But it could be just as possible that Mason is everything you say he is and Bernier is still a stronger goaltender.


In fairness to OHLAG he hasn't said anything negatively towards Bernier. He is, however, questioning the assessment of Mason by some on here given they have watched him only a few times on TV. One even going so far as to label him just a good Junior goalie who really has no future while admitting to only seeing him play in what amounts to 5 games. 5 games that he won I might add.

Inversely, how accurate if your assessment comparing the two, if, as you admit, you've only seen Bernier once?
I'm not going to pull for one goaltender over another. But it could be just as possible that Mason is everything you say he is and Bernier is still a stronger goaltender.

I'm not really pulling for one over the other either, although I think Mason has had the stronger season since Bernier was (by his own admission) pretty sulky after being demoted to the Q and hasn't been playing that well. Bernier could well be the stronger pro someday as well. What I object to is the automatic "Mason sucks" based upon a few people having watched him three times, and also because Bernier is quite obviously the higher-profile (not necessarily better, just better-known) prospect. In three pre-season games with Columbus, Mason had a sub-2.00 GAA and an over-.900 pct - that's pretty darn good for a 19-year-old.

Here's my point - Mason is an outstanding goalie, one of the best I have ever seen in 19 years of watching junior hockey. He's inspired a brutal, terrible defensive team that's only won one game without him to 19 wins this season. And I think that more than anything else, most people here are down on him because a) they had never heard of him before he played in the Super Series, and b) he wasn't a first round, high-profile pick like Bernier and Irving were. I've seen him play more than almost anyone else here, and based upon that, I have every confidence he will prove himself against the Yanks.

No, Wojtek was cut more for off-ice reasons than that he didn't fit the "right players" cliche. There's no question he would've been helpful on any team.

He would have been helpful obviously looking back but I think he was cut for two main reasons...

1. There were better offensive players and Canada doesn't like to take too many pure offensive guys instead electing to go with a checking line and an energy line.

2. IIRC he was involved in some kind of incident at a party where he was charged. His draft stock plummeted because of it and these potential attitude problems may have posed a red flag of sorts for the Canadian coaching staff.

He would have been helpful obviously looking back but I think he was cut for two main reasons...

1. There were better offensive players and Canada doesn't like to take too many pure offensive guys instead electing to go with a checking line and an energy line.

2. IIRC he was involved in some kind of incident at a party where he was charged. His draft stock plummeted because of it and these potential attitude problems may have posed a red flag of sorts for the Canadian coaching staff.

I'd say it had more to do with the way he played at the summer camp, which is best described as very, very LAZY. There was no way that Sutter would stand for it.

I believe his point was that Fuhr was prone to let in some bad goals, he was perhaps not the "best" goalie, yet the team won in front of him.

At least a partial correlation to what Mason is going through at the moment.

Nice condescension though! Glad to come out.

The big difference is that Grant Fuhr had maybe the best offensive team in front of him that could make up for a bad goal here and there. I don't think our current squad has that same ability.

My first choice would be Bernier, as I truly believe he is the better goalie. The supposed weak goals he let in against Sweden were not as bad as the goals let in by Mason and he faced much better teams then Mason has. I'm a bit biased as I saw him first hand during the Memorial Cup and he was outstanding.

That being said, Mason was good enough to stick around through the entire preseason with Columbus, which has 2 goaltenders there that are better then anyone playing in Los Angeles. If the situations were reversed, he probably would have seen some time in the regular season, just like Bernier did. Having Mason in net for the semis isn't like we are putting in someone vastly inferior. If either of team Canada's goalies were playing at the top of their game, they could very well be the 2 best goalies in this tournament.

This reminds me of the massive hate-on for Sam Gagner at last year's WJHC because he wasn't performing there. But how many players from last year's draft are in the NHL this year?

God, I hate Canadian hockey fans sometimes. We navel-gaze and second-guess and criticize and all think we know better than the coach.

I've seen Mason play in person about 60 times and Bernier once. They're both outstanding goalies and I have every confidence in either. Mason is not a soft goalie that gives up bad goals - he did yesterday, but one game does not a career make. He's an outstanding puck-handler, positionally sound, and extremely mentally tough.

HFBoards doesn't like Mason because he's underperformed in the three games they've ever seen him play, and because he's an OHL guy under an OHL coach, and because he's a third-rounder and only first rounders matter to most of you. As someone who's seen both goalies play live, I have every confidence in either Mason or Bernier, and I'll trust Hartsburg's decision either way he goes.

What's wrong with people giving their opinion ? You want people to just sit there and agree with everything Hartsburg chooses ? I think it's been a disaster from start, I'm glad Canada made it to semi-finals but it's been a disaster nonetheless.

How does it matter that you've seen Mason live ? What he has shown thus far is that he has technical flaws, so I'm not sure why you say he's perfectly sound. Bernier is ahead in his development and it doesn't take a world class goalie coach to see that.

I have no problem with Mason starting. Team Canada knew they had 2 starting goalies when they picked the team that is the joy of this situation, yes, maybe Bernier is better but Mason is not a second-string goalie in his own right. Mason has great puck handling ability and has the ability to be a showstopper on any given night. I truly believe that Mason has not shown Canada half of what he is capable of yet. You guys need to remember that this is still a "kids" tournament and attacking Mason for getting a start is just stupid for one it wasn't he who made the decision. I wonder what would happen if Mason is spectacular tomorrow because I sure as heck know what's going to happen if he loses. Mason will play well and if Canada loses it will not rest on entirely his shoulders because this is a team game and we have a great team as well do the Americans so let's just lay off the kid and let him do his job and leave the criticism for after the game because we all know it's going to come.

I have no problem with Mason starting. Team Canada knew they had 2 starting goalies when they picked the team that is the joy of this situation, yes, maybe Bernier is better but Mason is not a second-string goalie in his own right. Mason has great puck handling ability and has the ability to be a showstopper on any given night. I truly believe that Mason has not shown Canada half of what he is capable of yet. You guys need to remember that this is still a "kids" tournament and attacking Mason for getting a start is just stupid for one it wasn't he who made the decision. I wonder what would happen if Mason is spectacular tomorrow because I sure as heck know what's going to happen if he loses. Mason will play well and if Canada loses it will not rest on entirely his shoulders because this is a team game and we have a great team as well do the Americans so let's just lay off the kid and let him do his job and leave the criticism for after the game because we all know it's going to come.

Mason has only shown he can't handle the puck on large ice

and Bernier hasn't shown half of what he's capable of either like most of the team

Surprising indeed, but well deserved.

I would've like to see Bernier play once more, but think of it this way, even if he played and lost...everyone would blame Hartsburg for putting him in after Mason won.

It's a logical choice, as the rest of the tourney could just be tomorrow, if they lose, so no big deal...if he wins, he plays.

Simple as that, this is not the NHL, the minors...this is international hockey, and you play to win something in far less games, so wins are important, and now they're necessary to advance.

Mason wins, he plays.

That's it.

Surprising indeed, but well deserved.

I would've like to see Bernier play once more, but think of it this way, even if he played and lost...everyone would blame Hartsburg for putting him in after Mason won.

It's a logical choice, as the rest of the tourney could just be tomorrow, if they lose, so no big deal...if he wins, he plays.

Simple as that, this is not the NHL, the minors...this is international hockey, and you play to win something in far less games, so wins are important, and now they're necessary to advance.

Mason wins, he plays.

That's it.

that's typical Carbonneau nonsense hockey ... don't change if it ain't broke

Of course he has the ability to steal them, but the real question is has he been doing this the entire tournament?

Canada hasn't needed their goaltender to steal one yet. Bernier has played one subpar period in the past month and he's on the bench because of it, hardly fair in my eyes. We might need our goalie to steal one on Friday and I think Bernier would be better suited for the task than Mason... That 43 save shutout against the Czech's was brilliant and Canada might need another goaltending performance like that to win a fourth straight gold.... Hopefully Mason can pull it off.

Mason has only shown he can't handle the puck on large ice

and Bernier hasn't shown half of what he's capable of either like most of the team

Bernier showed us he could play in the first game. I'm not saying that Bernier shouldn't have started I'm saying that Mason is no slouch and hopefully everyone will get to see that considering if we don't then it'll be a no better than bronze year.

Here is what Bernier ha to say about the decision (source : RDS - http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/243068.html)

"Je respecte l'organisation et la décision de l'entraîneur, mais je trouve un peu désolant ce qui m'arrive. Tout comme moi, Steve a connu un match ordinaire, mais moi je n'ai pas eu de deuxième chance", a déclaré Bernier. "Ce qui est plate dans cette histoire, c'est que j'ai appris la décision de l'entraîneur de la bouche des autres joueurs. Il (Craig Hartsburg) n'a pas été capable de venir me le dire lui-même."

My translation (sorry if it sucks) :

"I respect the organisation and the coach's decision, but I think that what is happening to me is sad. Just like me, Steve had an ordinary game, but I didn't get a second chance. What sucks in this story is that I learnt the decision from the mouth of the other players. He (Hartsburg) hasn't been able to come and tell me"

Hope this isn't true ... :amazed:

Here is what Bernier ha to say about the decision (source : RDS - http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/243068.html)

"Je respecte l'organisation et la décision de l'entraîneur, mais je trouve un peu désolant ce qui m'arrive. Tout comme moi, Steve a connu un match ordinaire, mais moi je n'ai pas eu de deuxième chance", a déclaré Bernier. "Ce qui est plate dans cette histoire, c'est que j'ai appris la décision de l'entraîneur de la bouche des autres joueurs. Il (Craig Hartsburg) n'a pas été capable de venir me le dire lui-même."

My translation (sorry if it sucks) :

"I respect the organisation and the coach's decision, but I think that what is happening to me is sad. Just like me, Steve had an ordinary game, but I didn't get a second chance. What sucks in this story is that I learnt the decision from the mouth of the other players. He (Hartsburg) hasn't been able to come and tell me"

Hope this isn't true ... :amazed:

If other players told him about him not getting the start that is rough. I don't agree with that at all. Once you know who is starting you should tell the one who isn't starting first then tell the one who is right after that, or tell them both at the same time then tell the rest of the team if you want. I can't see that being true but who knows.

One thing for certain: no one on these boards knows the full story because we're not in the room. Maybe Bernier has lost his confidence. Maybe he threw a tantrum after the Sweden game. Maybe it simply comes down to the coaches hoping Mason's puckhandling will better negate an expected hard U.S. forecheck. Who knows? Certainly not me or you.

I have faith that Hockey Canada and Hartsburg have a better understanding of the situation than anyone here.

Actually, the people who have been watching, know a little more than you think. There has been much of praiss that Bernier has been an great in the room, and very supportive of Mason.

Surprising indeed, but well deserved.

I would've like to see Bernier play once more, but think of it this way, even if he played and lost...everyone would blame Hartsburg for putting him in after Mason won.

It's a logical choice, as the rest of the tourney could just be tomorrow, if they lose, so no big deal...if he wins, he plays.

Simple as that, this is not the NHL, the minors...this is international hockey, and you play to win something in far less games, so wins are important, and now they're necessary to advance.

Mason wins, he plays.

That's it.

I actually would tend to disagree with this statement.

Starting Bernier actually seems win-win from this standpoint. Even if he plays poorly, you could at least justify the move, in the sense that:

a) Bernier has already played at the NHL level, so you could at least perceive he has more experience under his belt.
b) The obvious one...namely, that Mason was given a chance to show he was the #1 guy, and he did nothing of the sort.

Sure, if Mason plays great, Hartsburg looks like a genius. Conversely, he will be crucified if Mason struggles yet again. Perhaps he knows something we don't (maybe Bernier is slightly nicked? Who knows...). All I'm saying is that from a logical standpoint, it really is a no-brainer; start Bernier.

If other players told him about him not getting the start that is rough. I don't agree with that at all. Once you know who is starting you should tell the one who isn't starting first then tell the one who is right after that, or tell them both at the same time then tell the rest of the team if you want. I can't see that being true but who knows.

well Bernier said it hiself that he heard it from the other players not his coach, so how can this not be true ?

I think Hartsburg handled the situation poorly by saying mason was going to be his goalie the rest of the way before the Finnish game. I hate to see a coach say that, because now it makes it tough to come back with Bernier if Mason has a poor game. But b/c Hartsburg said this publically, he has no choice but to stick with Mason.
If the forwards were playing half as well as the goalies, their would be no goalie controversy anyway.......

well Bernier said it hiself that he heard it from the other players not his coach, so how can this not be true ?

1. its a translation by someone who said it might suck
2. reporters LOVE to twist words...

1. its a translation by someone who said it might suck
2. reporters LOVE to twist words...

I'm pretty sure I got the "I learnt the decision from the mouth of the other players" part right :)

I agree with your second point, but I wonder whatn Bernier could have said that would lead to such a misquote. I hope this will be on Sports 30 / Sportscentre tonight.

1. its a translation by someone who said it might suck
2. reporters LOVE to twist words...

my first language is french so I can read it myself. The correction translation is not so much suck as being dissapointed the way things turned out.

I'm confused. If Hartsburg said before the quarters that Mason would go the rest of the way, why was there a need to speak to Bernier now?

I'm confused. If Hartsburg said before the quarters that Mason would go the rest of the way, why was there a need to speak to Bernier now?

Because Hartsburg wish-washed on whether Mason was the starter after the game against Finland. He said they were weighing the options which meant Bernier had a shot.

Hartsburg's reason for starting Mason is the thing that bothers me the most. To say he did it b/c it was easier on the players is just lame.

However, we won't know if it was the right decision until tomorrow. But if it isn't the right decision, I wonder whether Hartsburg will coach the team next year.

I haven't been that impressed with what he's done with this squad.

has it been announced that mason will play against the U.S??

Then explain to me how he's on this team over last year's team member Leyland Irving? Because I can't think of one.

Well, last year at the tryout camp, Mason had a concussion and really didn't get a chance to make the team. They took Irving instead, who served as a backup to Price. Just because Irving was backup last year doesn't mean he gets the nod over Mason this year, especially when he didn't beat him out for the backup job last year.

Irving, in some people's opinion, was overrated because of the defensive system implemented by Kevin Constantine in Everett. I remember speaking to ISS Director of Scouting Dennis MacInnis about Irving and he was not as high on him as others were. Sure, he put up gaudy numbers, but that didn't tell the whole story. Look at his numbers this season. Sure, they're respectable, but hardly what he put up as a 17 and 18 year old.

Mason's reputation is that he gives up an occasional soft goal has been mentioned by you. He doesn't give up one every game and they are rare. The other part of his reputation is that he is money in big games and he thrives on a heavy workload.

Look, I'm not going to bash Bernier or Irving, or anything like that. I'm comfortable with either Bernier or Mason in net. I just think you're exaggerating Mason's "weakness" and not giving him credit for his skills. He's a damn good goalie and I know that if he had as much opportunity to play prior to being drafted as Irving did, he would have been drafted much higher. Some goalies develop a little later and don't have the benefit of playing for a team that plays a defensive system.

has it been announced that mason will play against the U.S??

Yep.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/news_story/?ID=226375&hubname=

Well, last year at the tryout camp, Mason had a concussion and really didn't get a chance to make the team. They took Irving instead, who served as a backup to Price. Just because Irving was backup last year doesn't mean he gets the nod over Mason this year, especially when he didn't beat him out for the backup job last year.

Irving, in some people's opinion, was overrated because of the defensive system implemented by Kevin Constantine in Everett. I remember speaking to ISS Director of Scouting Dennis MacInnis about Irving and he was not as high on him as others were. Sure, he put up gaudy numbers, but that didn't tell the whole story. Look at his numbers this season. Sure, they're respectable, but hardly what he put up as a 17 and 18 year old.

Mason's reputation is that he gives up an occasional soft goal has been mentioned by you. He doesn't give up one every game and they are rare. The other part of his reputation is that he is money in big games and he thrives on a heavy workload.

Look, I'm not going to bash Bernier or Irving, or anything like that. I'm comfortable with either Bernier or Mason in net. I just think you're exaggerating Mason's "weakness" and not giving him credit for his skills. He's a damn good goalie and I know that if he had as much opportunity to play prior to being drafted as Irving did, he would have been drafted much higher. Some goalies develop a little later and don't have the benefit of playing for a team that plays a defensive system.

The only problem I have with this is that in the 5,5 international games Mason played so far, he let in 4 weak goals (2 in the Super Series and 2 in the WJC) which is a very high rate.

Yep.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/news_story/?ID=226375&hubname=

interesting. i hope he has a good game...

Then explain to me how he's on this team over last year's team member Leyland Irving? Because I can't think of one.

While I agree with you, I'm sketched out by having a guy who's scouting report says "prone to bad goals" on our NJT, I think the main reason that he beat out Irving, is because Irving has been putrid this yera for Everett. I understand he's on a team that is not as good as the ones in past years, but he's allowing almost a goal a game more than last year, and his sv% has dropped by 0.025% which is a HUGE percent in a number like that. From .931 to .906. I think Bernier should start, and this should be moot, but that could be some of the explaination.

This is a very worrisome decision for Canada in my opinion.

This is a very worrisome decision for Canada in my opinion.

I can guarantee you that the boys on this team are not worried. They know if they do their job then Mason will do his. Mason will be fine. It would be the same way if Bernier was in net, no more and no less.

I can't believe Hartsburg didn't have the guts to tell Bernier himself (if this is true, of course). That's terrible and a very cowardly thing for a coach to do. I don't like that Bernier wasn't given a second chance. It wasn't right nor fair.

I can't agree with the logic Hartsburg is using.

'We decided it wouldn't be good to keep flip-flopping our goalies.' (to that effect)

I mean,sure there are times when you need to delegate a #1 goaltender,but not when you have 2 goaltenders of this calibre.

IMO Hartsburg needs to expect perfection from BOTH and if you don't get it...you ABSOLUTLEY DO make a switch and if it means you flip flop again...so be it.

For me...I have SEEN Bernier play incredible. The best goaltneding performance Canada has had to this point in the tournament came from Bernier against CZE.

Mason has won all of his games but has not been the biggest reason we won ANY of the games he started.

I think Canada is too hung up on having lost 'the streak' against SWE. That was a nothing game in the end. Were right where we want to be...so why let that loss be a reason not to have the best possible goalie?

I can't agree with the logic Hartsburg is using.

'We decided it wouldn't be good to keep flip-flopping our goalies.' (to that effect)

I mean,sure there are times when you need to delegate a #1 goaltender,but not when you have 2 goaltenders of this calibre.

IMO Hartsburg needs to expect perfection from BOTH and if you don't get it...you ABSOLUTLEY DO make a switch and if it means you flip flop again...so be it.

For me...I have SEEN Bernier play incredible. The best goaltneding performance Canada has had to this point in the tournament came from Bernier against CZE.

Mason has won all of his games but has not been the biggest reason we won ANY of the games he started.

I think Canada is too hung up on having lost 'the streak' against SWE. That was a nothing game in the end. Were right where we want to be...so why let that loss be a reason not to have the best possible goalie?

Agreed, I think Bernier should of gotten the nod after the mediocre performance Mason put on against the Fins. Maybe Im off my rocker but I dont understand how one can blame Bernier for the loss against Sweden as it was a team meltdown and bad decisions that led to the goals being scored.

I havent seen Mason play in Junior but the thing that would of given Bernier the edge to me was his ability to control rebounds, Pierre said it in the first game that pucks just seem to stick to him, something I havent noticed as greatly with Mason.

Oh well time will only tell. Here's hoping Mason can prove us all wrong.

I was supporting Canada all the way because of the Kings prospects. And now, Hartsburg has a man crush on Mason. Reminds of Crowfard and Cloutier.......oh well, screw Hartsburg..

GO USA!!!

I was supporting Canada all the way because of the Kings prospects. And now, Hartsburg has a man crush on Mason. Reminds of Crowfard and Cloutier.......oh well, screw Hartsburg..

GO USA!!!

Sorry to tell you, but this tournament for Canada isn't to further along Kings prospects...

I just saw the video, and I feel so bad for Bernier.

I just saw the video, and I feel so bad for Bernier.

I'll feel worst if/when they lose to the US.

Sorry to tell you, but this tournament for Canada isn't to further along Kings prospects...

:rolleyes:

my first language is french so I can read it myself. The correction translation is not so much suck as being dissapointed the way things turned out.

On TSN's "That's Hockey" they translated it as him saying "it sucks" at least three times.

On TSN's "That's Hockey" they translated it as him saying "it sucks" at least three times.

I didn't watch the show, did they translate what Bernier said or did they have an interview with him in which he said "sucks" ?

I didn't watch the show, did they translate what Bernier said or did they have an interview with him in which he said "sucks" ?

They had a short hallway interview and it was a voice-over translation.

I didn't watch the show, did they translate what Bernier said or did they have an interview with him in which he said "sucks" ?

You coulden't even hear what Bernier was saying because they had a guy translating over his voice....but the guy translating was saying "it sucks". If you look at the actual words he said on RDS he said c'est plate which can loosely mean "it sucks" or "it's dissapointing"

I would say it's pretty clear that Leyland got the shaft in this deal.

So essentially what we have is you making an arbitrary point at the outset of the thread. Using no factual basis for any of your arguments and just repeating mindless comments over and over again.

You coulden't even hear what Bernier was saying because they had a guy translating over his voice....but the guy translating was saying "it sucks". If you look at the actual words he said on RDS he said c'est plate which can loosely mean "it sucks" or "it's dissapointing"

I thought the way the guy was doing the voiceover was funny. :biglaugh:

Sounded like a South Park episode. I could just imagine Cartman doing the translation saying: "It sucks balls man"... "the coach is breaking my balls"

I thought the way the guy was doing the voiceover was funny. :biglaugh:

Sounded like a South Park episode. I could just imagine Cartman doing the translation saying: "It sucks balls man"... "the coach is breaking my balls"

Yeah, it sounded satirical. I was thinking of the Daily Show's translation where they end every Arabic speaker saying, "Death To America!"

It appears Hartsburg has totally blamed Bernier for the letdown versus Sweden instead of the team. As I see it I believe the Czechs would have won game one against us if not for Bernier and for two periods he was great against Sweden...I only fault him on the one goal he kicked in. It will be interesting to see what transpires tomorrow becuase this whole situation to me is ridiculous. Mason isn't evev in the same league as Bernier and Hartsburg's handling of his forwards reminds me of Mike Keenan. Will justice be served? I think so!!!

Nice move Hartsy, nice move...... :shakehead

Why don't you stick with Canada, USA doesn't need you. And I'm a Kings fan.


An American rooting for Canada, what is this world coming to. Friggen n00bs.

Your calling me a noob? I've been here 9 months before you. Why don't you mind your own business and go back to the LGK boards. No wonder you got kicked off from there, your a pain in the ***.


Where is the damn ignore button?

Your calling me a noob? I've been here 9 months before you.

noob fight !

I'll feel worst if/when they lose to the US.

I call BS on this post. It's quite clear to me and probably others that you'll be cheering against Canada so you can continue on with your endless bashing of Mason. Of the 50 some odd posts I've read from you not *one* expressed hope or a commitment to this Canadian team. All they did was bash the team (mostly Mason) and say they have no chance.

True Canadian fans (ie.. not you ) will be cheering loudly for whomever is in net with the jersey on.

I call BS on this post. It's quite clear to me and probably others that you'll be cheering against Canada so you can continue on with your endless bashing of Mason. Of the 50 some odd posts I've read from you not *one* expressed hope or a commitment to this Canadian team. All they did was bash the team (mostly Mason) and say they have no chance.

True Canadian fans (ie.. not you ) will be cheering loudly for whomever is in net with the jersey on.

I think we should all be cheering for Mason. Hartsburg messed up everything though regarding the goalies, he handled it terribly.

I feel so bad for Bernier. The fact that he wasn't given another shot really bothers me. They never gave him a chance. I still can't believe that Hartsburg didn't have the guts to tell Bernier himself. Jerk.

I feel so bad for Bernier. The fact that he wasn't given another shot really bothers me. They never gave him a chance. I still can't believe that Hartsburg didn't have the guts to tell Bernier himself. Jerk.

I feel worse for Canada, we are the ones that now face an up hill climb because of this idiot Hartsburg. MAN I hate this guy, what an idiot. It would be like benching Luongo for Cam Ward in the Olympics, maybe even worse. I still can't believe it. Canada will finish fourth.

oh, and I can think of different word from "guts" in your post.

I call BS on this post. It's quite clear to me and probably others that you'll be cheering against Canada so you can continue on with your endless bashing of Mason. Of the 50 some odd posts I've read from you not *one* expressed hope or a commitment to this Canadian team. All they did was bash the team (mostly Mason) and say they have no chance.

True Canadian fans (ie.. not you ) will be cheering loudly for whomever is in net with the jersey on.

I am cheering for Canada, I am Canadian. I, however, have no confidence in Mason's goaltending, and this team hasn't left me very confident either. This US team has been great, and Canada will be in a fight, that I worry they can't win.

I feel worse for Canada, we are the ones that now face an up hill climb because of this idiot Hartsburg. MAN I hate this guy, what an idiot. It would be like benching Luongo for Cam Ward in the Olympics, maybe even worse. I still can't believe it. Canada will finish fourth.

oh, and I can think of different word from "guts" in your post.

Cause who would even think about playing a Conn Smythe, Stanley Cup, World Championship winning goaltender in a tournament as big as the Olympics. :shakehead

You could have probably proven your point better if you picked someone other than Ward.

Cause who would even think about playing a Conn Smythe, Stanley Cup, World Championship winning goaltender in a tournament as big as the Olympics. :shakehead

You could have probably proven your point better if you picked someone other than Ward.

haha, I was trying to think of another Canadian to contrast with Luongo and Ward has been playing poorly lately. Good point though, How about Marc Denis?

Also, I did not want to give the impression that I thought Mason was horrible. I just dont think he measures up to Bernier at all. I really believe that Bernier will be battling Price for the Canadian goaltending reins down the road. He's that good. (and no, I am not a Kings fan) I also doubt Mason will be an impact guy in the NHL.

haha, I was trying to think of another Canadian to contrast with Luongo and Ward has been playing poorly lately. Good point though, How about Marc Denis?

Also, I did not want to give the impression that I though Mason was horrible. I just dont think he measures up to Bernier at all. I really believe that Bernier will be battling price for the Canadian goaltending reigns down the road. He's that good. (and no, I am not a Kings fan) I also doubt Mason will be an impact guy in the NHL.


I think comparing him to Denis makes Mason out to be a horrible goalie at this point in Denis' career. I also think that before Bernier or Price are battling for anything Luongo will need to be out of the picture, and he's only 29.

I also agreed with your inital post, starting Ward, despite his past, over Luongo or Brodeur in any meaningful game where all 3 are available would be disgraceful, and would create an uproar WAY outmatching the uproar of the Mason/Bernier situation.

I guess all you experts were up in arms after Luongo gave up a brutal goal against the Czech's in the semi's in 04.

haha, I was trying to think of another Canadian to contrast with Luongo and Ward has been playing poorly lately. Good point though, How about Marc Denis?

Also, I did not want to give the impression that I thought Mason was horrible. I just dont think he measures up to Bernier at all. I really believe that Bernier will be battling Price for the Canadian goaltending reins down the road. He's that good. (and no, I am not a Kings fan) I also doubt Mason will be an impact guy in the NHL.

Hey no prob, I do see the point you were trying to make, but was just a little confused when you compared Mason to a tender who's pretty much won on most of the largest stages in the game, and preceding that point saying Canada is in trouble because Mason is starting.

And everyone has a right to their own opinion. Heck I was on the start Mason bandwagon for the Finnish game, but even I would probably have gone back to Bernier against the States. However, I do see the reasoning behind Mason getting the start, and I don't think it's the end of the world that Mason is indeed starting. Both tenders are top notch, thus why both made this team over my boy Leland. I just don't get where all this Mason hate is coming from (not talking about you).

The only problem I have with this is that in the 5,5 international games Mason played so far, he let in 4 weak goals (2 in the Super Series and 2 in the WJC) which is a very high rate.

Don't confuse weak with flukey. The first goal was weak, but the second goal against the Finns was a flukey goal, not a weak goal. Bernier allowed a similar goal against Sweden and I would not describe either as "weak". Lucky, flukey or ugly, call it what you like, but those types of goals go in against any goalie.

I have a feeling Mason is going to play a great game. I'm sure this whole controversy has pushed all the mental buttons to motivate him. Many athletes thrive when given the opportunity to prove doubters wrong. Mason has that mental makeup.

I prefer Bernier myself, and I know he'd be every bit as motivated as Mason by getting a second chance. However, if Canada gets beat, I really don't think goaltending will be to blame.

I guess all you experts were up in arms after Luongo gave up a brutal goal against the Czech's in the semi's in 04.

There's a big difference between the pedigree that Luongo had at 19 and Steve Mason. That's not even close, and very unfair to Luongo.

Mason faced powerhouses Slovakia and Denmark...You could have taken the 30th best goalie Canada could have brought to the Tourny and the results would have been the same...
The Slovaks outplayed Canada for most of the game...

The Slovaks outplayed Canada for most of the game...

No they didn't, they played Canada even at best, and he was not a difference maker in that game.

Where as Bernier standing on his head was one of the main reason Canada won against the Czechs.

There's a big difference between the pedigree that Luongo had at 19 and Steve Mason. That's not even close, and very unfair to Luongo.

Luongo at 19 has nothing to do with situation, he was already 25 at this point....which makes the other guys' argument even worse. When/if Luongo gives up a bad goal at the 2010 Olympics, no one will bat an eye, because he's proven himself for several years as being a top goalie. Mason has not. Major difference.

Luongo at 19 has nothing to do with situation, he was already 25 at this point....which makes the other guys' argument even worse. When/if Luongo gives up a bad goal at the 2010 Olympics, no one will bat an eye, because he's proven himself for several years as being a top goalie. Mason has not. Major difference.

That's kind of the point. If a coach starts the currently "perceived" better goaltender in a big game and they lose, it's not a bad decision- it was a bad goaltending performance. If you go with a hunch, or play favorites you open yourself up to justifiable criticism. This isn't aimed at your post in particular, but some of those saying that if Bernier came in and had a bad game, Hartsburg would be criticized.

Mason is used to being outshot and seeing a lot of work, I think the US game will have Mason face lots of shots and he'll be right at home.

He isn't used to long stretches of inactivity like he has seen in this tournament. I have great faith in Mason.

I am not sure if anyone has considered this, but the Kings opened the season in London with Bernier in net. I am almost certain that the ice surface is built to international dimensions, so it should be noted that Bernier was able to beat the Stanley Cup champions on that size of ice with a Kings defence that has been shown to be very porous.

I haven't seen or heard Bernier's games, other than the replays on tsn.ca, but I did follow much of the Finland game on XM radio. From the broadcast, it seemed to me that while the Canadian team was not dominating, they did have their forecheck going and that the majority of the play was in the Finnish end. Between what I heard on the radio and what I saw from the tsn.ca replays, I have to say that I did not consider the Finnish game to be an impressive one for Mason. The goal from the blueline was totally misplayed, and even the fluke goal was worse than the fluke goal that Bernier gave up - Bernier was caught up in a flurry of players, whereas Mason just seemed to be caught off guard.

Hopefully Mason will play better today because there is no way that the Canadian forecheck is going to be as successful as it was against Finland. Mason is going to have to put up with a lot of offensive pressure from the American and I am not sure that he has seen that yet.

As a Kings fan, I have to say that it not the worst thing that Bernier doesn't start this game because it looks as though it could be a blowout for the Americans. The Canadians do not have a strong defence and they have not shown much offence. I think that Hartsburg has made a mistake in sticking with the older players as the #1 line when it is obvious that the younger players are more talented and creative. The best chance that the Canadian have is if the American team takes a lot of penalties and Stamkos and Tavares are allowed to shine on the PP.

Great call by Hartsburg.

Steve Mason is a winner.

Go Steve Mason, looks like Hartsburg was right after all! :)

Where's Jimmy-boy?

*crickets*

Congrats Mason :clap:

Bernier would have gotten the shutout AND scored a hattrick

Great coaching job by Hartsburg. Mason gets the job done in stellar fashion!

Where's all the haters now!!!! Told everyone we hadn't seen anything yet from Ma$e!!!

Crow eater signing in. :help:

Bernier would have gotten the shutout AND scored a hattrick

Close.. but the correct Jimmi Jenkins answer is that Irving would have gotten the shutout and scored a hattrick.

Bernier would have just gotten the shutout and a goal or so...

My apologies to Steve Mason.
I doubt that Bernier would have played better and Bernier was my choice for this game.
I think we all know who starts tomorrow!

You often see a player play his best game, sometimes overachieve, after getting traded to a new team. This might be the first time it's happened that a player has played his best possible game, maybe overachieved a little, while playing for a different team, and on a different continent, than the team he was traded to...

I'll admit: I thought they should have started Bernier. And when Mason looked lost on the first shift, I rolled my eyes and thought "here we go." But Mason settled down in a hurry. He was terrific. No soft goals. He made the big saves when he had to. That first shift might have been the best thing that could have happened to Mason.

I've been critical with the way that Hartsburg has handled the goalies. But he absolutely made the right move by starting Mason.

Crow eater signing in. :help:

I'll take a drumstick too,please.

Mason got the job done. I give him credit.

This was a team win though. Everyone did their job and we had several players who made important plays. Its not just about Mason OR Bernier.

There was a point int his tournament where we didn't look like a team that could blow a game open. Teams that can't do that rely on goaltending.

Today we blew the game open. Today we did NOT rely on goaltending.

Mason has a great chance to become a huge success story and he deserves it.

Nice to see credit given where due, by some. Those of us who have had the luxury of actually seeing Mason play for years knew he had it in him!

Nice to see credit given where due, by some. Those of us who have had the luxury of actually seeing Mason play for years knew he had it in him!

Indeed. Mason wasn't high profile since he only played 16 games in his draft year and wasn't a first rounder, but he deserves to be where he is today. He's outstanding, and I'm so glad that all of Canada finally knows it.

I am glad Mason put on such a great performance today. I'm also glad people finally realize that we have TWO great goaltenders on this team, and we most likely could have had the same success with either.

Just so we're clear here...

Junior career records:

Bernier: 60-48-3
Mason: 69-20-7

Mason has also had a better save % than Bernier every season. Mason is the far more accoplished junior goaltender, it's not like this was a rogue decision by Hartsburg.

Of course Bernier is 1-3 with an .860 save % in the NHL, so this makes him god to Jenkins and others.:sarcasm:

Just so we're clear here:

Junior career records:

Bernier: 60-48-3
Mason: 69-20-7

Mason has also had a better save % than Bernier every season. Mason is the far more accoplished junior goaltender.

Of course Bernier is 1-3 with an .860 save % in the NHL, so this makes him god to Jenkins and others.:sarcasm:
Lewiston is an average team while London was a dominant team until this year so it's not fair to compare them.

Way to go Steve.. we will appreciate your play in Columbus is a few years...
good on ya bud, you did Canada proud eh? Almost pitched the shutout, 36 of 37.. get outta here...

Lewiston is an average team while London was a dominant team until this year so it's not fair to compare them.

Didn't Lewiston win the Q and play in the Memorial Cup last year? Mason's never played in the Memorial Cup. London's only been a good team last year and this one BECAUSE of Mason.

Lewiston is an average team while London was a dominant team until this year so it's not fair to compare them.

I wouldn't say London was dominant last year. They were very solid up front but defence has been an issue the last few years.

If you rule out the OHL record 45 wins Mason got last year due to having a strong offensive unit he still started this year 19-4-1-2. When you consider that without Mason London is 1-9-1-0 that is really telling. And if you don't know London this year is just not a great team.

Some people are just clouded by bitter uninformed opinions which they would rather latch onto and run with as opposed to seeing what is plainly evident. That Mason is a very good goalie prospect. Of course those same people look very foolish now and more so when they refuse to give him any credit for his role today.

Didn't Lewiston win the Q and play in the Memorial Cup last year? Mason's never played in the Memorial Cup. London's only been a good team last year and this one BECAUSE of Mason.
Bernier was an MVP because he got an average team to the Memorial cup.

Lewiston is an average team while London was a dominant team until this year so it's not fair to compare them.

London had no defense what so ever last year..none and Mason was OHL goalie of the year. I'm not saying anything bad towards Bernier, but the piling on of Mason was just a bit over the top. Hell you folks were giving away the tourney when Mase was announced as the starter for the next two games.

I'm glad it worked out for Mason.. good kid & can you imagine the backlash if he didn't win?

Of course Bernier is 1-3 with an .860 save % in the NHL, so this makes him god to Jenkins and others.:sarcasm:

Mason played well in the pre-season for the Jackets, he even beat the Sabres...

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20072008/ES010041.HTM

The only reason he didn't have the same "NHL Cred" that Bernier had was that Columbus has Leclaire and Norrena.

Lewiston is an average team while London was a dominant team until this year so it's not fair to compare them.

Mason has only really played the last two seasons and he is the reason the Knights were more than an average team last season. There defense last season was terrible and they only had one forward line.

This season the Knights are a mess, 1-9 without Mason. 19-4-3 with him, how can you say there is a good team in front of him?

good for you if have need to be a Canadian ***** after we win a game but I don't. I'm happy Canada won and I think Bernier gives the team a better chance to win over Mason. Did I say at any point that I hate Mason and that he's a sore loser who doesn't deserve to live ? I think not, I'm happy Canada won and I don't have to ***** anybody to justify my opinions. I believe Mason is behind Bernier in his technique, does today's game change it ? No, is Marchand a better player than Turris because he scored today ? I'm not sure

Just so you people know i watched the Knights closely last year because Kostitsyn a Canadiens player used to play for them.

Yes it's true London had a bad D and Mason was solid but they also had 3 really good offensive players in Kane, Gagner and Kostitsyn all guys that had 100+ points seasons.

Now take a look at Lewiston and their top offensive player was Perron with 83 points and their 2nd best was Faubert with 66 points.The Q is know as an offensive league and having only 1 guy over 80 points is pretty bad.

So i'm not taking anything from Mason but IMO Bernier has done something much more impressive in his junior career.

Bernier was an MVP because he got an average team to the Memorial cup.

Lewiston was an outstanding team, they were brilliantly coached and had lights-out defense and a balanced attack.

Isn't this pretty much moot at this point now. Is there anyone who really wants them to switch to Bernier for Saturday?

good for you if have need to be a Canadian b-itch after we win a game but I don't. I'm happy Canada won and I think Bernier gives the team a better chance to win over Mason. Did I say at any point that I hate Mason and that he's a sore loser who doesn't deserve to live ? I think not, I'm happy Canada won and I don't have to b-itch anybody to justify my opinions.


I should hope not, Mason is undefeated and is a team first guy. He wasn't the goalie who lost a game and than whined to the media that he was being treated unfairly by the coach! Bernier went out of his way to put more controversy on his teammates than was needed. Bernier wins one NHL game and his head won't fit through the door.

Lewiston was an outstanding team, they were brilliantly coached and had lights-out defense and a balanced attack.

find any excuse you like that's fine, Bernier has the best technique you'll see from a goalie in Canadian junior hockey

I should hope not, Mason is undefeated and is a team first guy. He wasn't the goalie who lost a game and than whined to the media that he was being treated unfairly by the coach! Bernier went out of his way to put more controversy on his teammates than was needed.

He didn't whine, he just stated facts. Is team Canada a kindergarten where everybody has to like each other and say nice things about everybody and say how life is wonderful all the time ?

He didn't whine, he just stated facts. Is team Canada a kindergarten where everybody has to like each other and say nice things about everybody and say how life is wonderful all the time ?

Generally in a short tournament setting, that would be ideal.

He didn't whine, he just stated facts. Is team Canada a kindergarten where everybody has to like each other and say nice things about everybody and say how life is wonderful all the time ?


They don't have to, but good team players will. The coach made his decision, so accept it and play your role the best you can.

I guess it is fact that Bernier THINKS he is better than Mason and THINKS Hartsburg screwed him over, yes I guess those are facts that had to be put forward by Bernier.

Isn't this pretty much moot at this point now. Is there anyone who really wants them to switch to Bernier for Saturday?

Exactly.....Time to move on

It's Canada and we are deep ......tough decisions have to be made in picking the team which includes to some point picking the number one goalie.

They don't have to, but good team players will. The coach made his decision, so accept it and play your role the best you can.

I guess it is fact that Bernier THINKS he is better than Mason and THINKS Hartsburg screwed him over, yes I guess those are facts that had to be put forward by Bernier.

we could talk all night and all you want and I could give you a list of great team players that not everybody liked and all you want but in the end it's what you do on the ice. Say all you want about Bernier but you're the one lacking respect for a Canadian player who played an outstanding game against the Czechs. I never said at any point just like everybody else who thinks that Bernier should have been the n'1 goalie that Mason sucks and doesn't deserve to play or whatever.

Aww, now vindicated Mason fans are trying to belittle Bernier. I never saw that coming.

I get that Bernier maybe shouldn't have said anything about the way he was being treated (finding out info. from the guys instead of the coach), but what effectively occured and resulted after the Sweden game is that he really did end up looking like the scapegoat. It was a TEAM collapse, but the loss was fully Bernier's to take.

Mason plays shakey and lets in two strange goals in the Finland game, but they end up playing him, again. By doing that, the coach and staff basically blame Bernier for that inconsequential loss, and shut him down. I don't find that particularly fair.

The coach handled the situation badly, as did Bernier. Bernier's a kid, I'm willing to cut him some slack.

And from what I've seen of Mason during the Super Series, the WJC, and a couple of junior games, I'd still take Bernier over him. Bernier is more solid positionally, better with rebounds, and looks more confident in net, IMHO. Mason is better at puckhandling, but I think he's a little to overenthusiastice with that. He tends to make risky plays, instead of leaving the puck for the d-men.

That's just my firm opinion.

Aww, now vindicated Mason fans are trying to belittle Bernier. I never saw that coming.

I get that Bernier maybe shouldn't have said anything about the way he was being treated (finding out info. from the guys instead of the coach), but what effectively occured and resulted after the Sweden game is that he really did end up looking like the scapegoat. It was a TEAM collapse, but the loss was fully Bernier's to take.

Mason plays shakey and lets in two strange goals in the Finland game, but they end up playing him, again. By doing that, the coach and staff basically blame Bernier for that inconsequential loss, and shut him down. I don't find that particularly fair.

The coach handled the situation badly, as did Bernier. Bernier's a kid, I'm willing to cut him some slack.

And from what I've seen of Mason during the Super Series, the WJC, and a couple of junior games, I'd still take Bernier over him. Bernier is more solid positionally, better with rebounds, and looks more confident in net, IMHO. Mason is better at puckhandling, but I think he's a little to overenthusiastice with that. He tends to make risky plays, instead of leaving the puck for the d-men.

That's just my firm opinion.

Canada won today, therfore you are wrong

Canada won today, therfore you are wrong

Care to read the entire thing before hitting that "post" button?

Canada did win, and I'm glad. Mason won his games, despite some lackluster efforts.

Care to read the entire thing before hitting that "post" button?

Canada did win, and I'm glad. Mason won his games, despite some lackluster efforts.

I know, I entirely agree with you but it seems like we're wrong because Canada won today

I know, I entirely agree with you but it seems like we're wrong because Canada won today

Ah, what can you do. Life's unfair.

In a few years, the real story will be told, and maybe then, there'll be something of more substance to argue about.

good game today steve.

It is a punishment to Bernier....how you cant see that is beyond me.

Rewarding Mason??? For what...standing in the crease and watching Canada play Denmark??

You are forgetting that Hartsburg is very familiar with what Mason can do after coaching against him the last 2 years.

Mason came back from pro camp and won 19 losing only 4 in regulation. I believe Bernier is 7 and 7. I don't think the choice was made based upon one game for either guy.

Aww, now vindicated Mason fans are trying to belittle Bernier. I never saw that coming.

I get that Bernier maybe shouldn't have said anything about the way he was being treated (finding out info. from the guys instead of the coach), but what effectively occured and resulted after the Sweden game is that he really did end up looking like the scapegoat. It was a TEAM collapse, but the loss was fully Bernier's to take.

Mason plays shakey and lets in two strange goals in the Finland game, but they end up playing him, again. By doing that, the coach and staff basically blame Bernier for that inconsequential loss, and shut him down. I don't find that particularly fair.

The coach handled the situation badly, as did Bernier. Bernier's a kid, I'm willing to cut him some slack.

And from what I've seen of Mason during the Super Series, the WJC, and a couple of junior games, I'd still take Bernier over him. Bernier is more solid positionally, better with rebounds, and looks more confident in net, IMHO. Mason is better at puckhandling, but I think he's a little to overenthusiastice with that. He tends to make risky plays, instead of leaving the puck for the d-men.

That's just my firm opinion.

Based on the number of games you have seen Mason play you know as little about him as I do about Bernier.

I have watched the kid play a lot as a KNights fan and I can tell you the kid is very sound positionally. Is usually very good on rebound control. Excellent catching hand. Mason is a very good goalie.

Hartsburg went with a goalie that he is familair with. That much is clear. One soft goal is not going to change that.

PS: Bernier and Mason both allowed what is being called 2 soft goals. Only one guy can play and that choice was made.