Question about Claude Julien

Alright, we're having a "fun" little debate on the Bruins board, and I was just looking for some opinions about Julien. Do you guys feel like his coaching style led to decreased offensive production? Guys like Gomez and Gionta dropped from 80+ points to 60 and 45, Elias scored 45 in 39 games, then only had 69 with Claude.

So was the decrease in scoring a result of the coaching system? Or did they all just have abnormally good years in 2005-06 before Julien came along and they went back to normal?

Well, I think the decrease in scoring was two-fold. Both Gionta and Gomez missed time with injuries and well, if you've seen our powerless play, nothing has changed much this season. A lot of thinking, taking a full second to shoot a puck off a pass, and just giving too much time for the other team to get into position.

However, yes, I'd blame Claude for our absolutely pathetic offense last season. Yeah we won a lot, but as an example. I wanna say we were playing Pittsburgh but don't quote me: We were down by 3-4 goals early in the 2nd period...so instead of dropping the soft forecheck and "defense first" mindset, he continued to play the system and didn't send more forecheckers or get more aggressive to try and score.

Needless to say, I think we got shutout, or MAYBE scored one goal late in the game. I think that was the point a lot of us started to really no longer like him. Sadly, I admit, I still defended him being in his first season with us and never expected Lou to can him. But good ****ing riddance.

I think Juliens had alot to do with the extra few seconds of thought that Elias and Gomez had last season. I think they took his Defense first strategy a bit too far and when you're shooting, you need to be hungry for that goal no matter what. That extra second of thought led to alot of missed chances.

Juliens certainly made us a better defensive team, but at the expense of offense. This season our problems are due to alot of the same things but not from the same philosophies. I personally think our forwards are suffering because of Johnny Mac.

It was a mixture of things. First off Pretty much everyone in the league had an abnormally good year in 2005-06 simply because of all the power plays early in that season. It inflated the stats a bit. Then there were injuries all of them were out at one point in the season. The real passive system contributed a bit also. Julien's big problem though was discipline.

It was a mixture of things. First off Pretty much everyone in the league had an abnormally good year in 2005-06 simply because of all the power plays early in that season. It inflated the stats a bit. Then there were injuries all of them were out at one point in the season. The real passive system contributed a bit also. Julien's big problem though was discipline.

it was 06-07 buddy.

it was 06-07 buddy.

I said pretty much everyone in the league had an abnormally good year in 05-06 including which partly explains a drop off the next year in 06-07.

There were a bunch of reasons for the decreased scoring.

1. The NHL as a whole was less offensive than post-lockout. Part of this was due to the fewer PP time.

2. Julien played a very defensive system. It was very conservative and relied a lot on special teams. The Devils were poor overall at even strength. There was almost no forechecking. When they got a lead they would hang on for dear life. For some bizarre reason when they trailed, they would keep playing an extremely defensive system until they were desparate in the last 3-5 minutes, when the Devils offense was just deadly. The 06-07 Devils set the record for goals in the last minute with the extra skater (not sure if that's the exact wording, but you get the point).

3. The players bear a lot of the responsibility. Gomez played weird all year. He coasted through wayy too many games, and was hurt at the end of the season. Some games he didn't have much help, Gionta and Elias went down at the same time at one point and Gomez played with 4th liners for a few games. Gionta was hurt for 20 games, and didn't have the same scoring touch he showed the previous year. Elias was god-like when he came back in 05-06 and had good chemistry with both Gomez/Gionta and Brylin-Langenbrunner. He completely lost his goal scoring touch and has not recovered it this year (other than the last 2 games). Keep in mind that Elias has not always been a PPG, especially in ultra-defensive systems (118 pts/156 games from 01-02 to 02-03). A lot of that was due to bad linemates, he was still very effective (57 goals in that stretch), and the NHL was very low scoring.

Langenbrunner had an excellent year and Julien and John McLean (who had a lot of control over the line combos and what not) deserve credit for the Parise-Zajac-Langs line, who had insane chemistry and carried the team at times. Parise was obviously the catalyst and Zajac/Langenbrunner played good D and chipped in offensively as well.

Rafalski had a great offensive year. He had a career high in assists and was 1 away from tying his best goalscoring year. He played a ton of minutes which may have inflated his totals though.

Paul Martin was one player who had a lot of trouble playing under Julien. He was restricted a little too much and his offensive development may have been stunted. He also played a ton of minutes.

The other dmen had no offensive game anyway.

The checking line was probably restricted the most offensively. They were clearly under very tight reigns and Madden and Pandolfo have thrived under Brent Sutter.

A quick summary: Gomez and Gionta had career years aided by a more open league. Gionta surprised a lot of people. Elias came back on fire. Gomez woke up under Lou Lamoriello. They struggled to get into a rhythm under Julien, but IMO Julien only deserves a little blame. By the time the lines were consistent (they were changed quite a bit very early in the year) those 3 players started to get hurt and just couldn't get going. I think Madden was the one player who was most clearly hurt by Julien's system. Pandolfo was too, although the numbers didn't show it as much.

Bottom line; Julien played like we had a 1 goal lead even when we were behind 2 goals and would only take a chance the last 5 minutes of the 3rd period.

The guy had little to no creativity to mix lines or play the hot guys more when behind to try and create offense and would line-match to the point of choking the team offensively. When the other team sees to prevent the Devils from scoring all they have to do is put out their top line - something is wrong.

Even ultra-defense first minded Lou felt this was not going to cut it in the playoffs and hence why Boston is now debating the topic instead of us. Now we have people debating Sutter's mixing up the lines too often.

Devils fans seek balance in the force... :yoda:

I think Julien's style definitely caused a drop in our offensive production.

Bottom line; Julien played like we had a 1 goal lead even when we were behind 2 goals and would only
The guy had little to no creativity to mix lines or play the hot guys more when behind to try and create offense and would line-match to the point of choking the team offensively. When the other team sees to prevent the Devils from scoring all they have to do is put out their top line - something is wrong.

Even ultra-defense first minded Lou felt this was not going to cut it in the playoffs and hence why Boston is now debating the topic instead of us. Now we have people debating Sutter's mixing up the lines too often.

Devils fans seek balance in the force... :yoda:

This is why I pointed out that maybe its not Juliens. We had problems scoring in the playoffs too, and this season. The only common factor in all 3 I can see is Johnny Mac.

That is something that did piss me off extremely. Being down by a goal in the third...you need to score, and Julien didn't seem to care. Also, with all that line matching kept the scorers off the ice and made pandolfo and madden tired. In essence, Julien beat himself in the playoffs.

That is something that did piss me off extremely. Being down by a goal in the third...you need to score, and Julien didn't seem to care. Also, with all that line matching kept the scorers off the ice and made pandolfo and madden tired. In essence, Julien beat himself in the playoffs.

Julien wasn't in the playoffs. Remember we had fired him. Yet we were doing the exact same thing again during the playoffs.

I think Johnny Mac is the culprit.

Julien wasn't in the playoffs. Remember we had fired him. Yet we were doing the exact same thing again during the playoffs.

I think Johnny Mac is the culprit.

No, they just had no HC, so they stayed with the system. They did the same thing when Larry quit.

They were let loose more often, but the system stayed the same.

The one thing I would not put on Julien is the linematching, he's said that wasn't his idea and I believe him.

Bottom line; Julien played like we had a 1 goal lead even when we were behind 2 goals and would only take a chance the last 5 minutes of the 3rd period.

The guy had little to no creativity to mix lines or play the hot guys more when behind to try and create offense and would line-match to the point of choking the team offensively. When the other team sees to prevent the Devils from scoring all they have to do is put out their top line - something is wrong.

Even ultra-defense first minded Lou felt this was not going to cut it in the playoffs and hence why Boston is now debating the topic instead of us. Now we have people debating Sutter's mixing up the lines too often.

Devils fans seek balance in the force... :yoda:

I agree with everything you said. The bolded statements were my biggest problems with the team last year, but everything else was also true.

No, they just had no HC, so they stayed with the system. They did the same thing when Larry quit.

They were let loose more often, but the system stayed the same.

The one thing I would not put on Julien is the linematching, he's said that wasn't his idea and I believe him.

About linematching not being Julien's idea, then whose was it? They linematched under Larry and Lou the previous year, but not to the ridiculous extent as under Julien. Was it Johnny Mac's idea to overmatch the lines? If so, he was only the assistant and Julien should have put him in his place.

A lot of things apparently "weren't Julien's fault." He told the Boston media that he wanted to forecheck more, but that Lou basically wouldn't let him. Yet somehow, Lou lets Sutter forecheck as much as he wants. If you believe something, stand up for yourself, man. You're the freaking HEAD coach.

I agree with everything you said. The bolded statements were my biggest problems with the team last year, but everything else was also true.



About linematching not being Julien's idea, then whose was it? They linematched under Larry and Lou the previous year, but not to the ridiculous extent as under Julien. Was it Johnny Mac's idea to overmatch the lines? If so, he was only the assistant and Julien should have put him in his place.

A lot of things apparently "weren't Julien's fault." He told the Boston media that he wanted to forecheck more, but that Lou basically wouldn't let him. Yet somehow, Lou lets Sutter forecheck as much as he wants. If you believe something, stand up for yourself, man. You're the freaking HEAD coach.

I think the linematching was "Lou's" idea, in that his coaches were pushing it.

I also think that, because the Bruins don't do the anal rententive linechanges the Devils did. The other stuff that Julien says is total BS, because the Bruins do exactly what he says they don't do. But I don't see the linematching to that crazy extent.

That is something that did piss me off extremely. Being down by a goal in the third...you need to score, and Julien didn't seem to care. Also, with all that line matching kept the scorers off the ice and made pandolfo and madden tired. In essence, Julien beat himself in the playoffs.

Totally agree IMO. But what pissed me off even more was when we were down 2 goals heading into the third, we'd score one early in the period and the Juliens wouild act like we just tied the game. We'd play the passive-**** hockey for the rest of the period and then fire up the engines with 1 minute left in the game. Luckily, we got alot of late game goals,but itwas still so stupid.

Totally agree IMO. But what pissed me off even more was when we were down 2 goals heading into the third, we'd score one early in the period and the Juliens wouild act like we just tied the game. We'd play the passive-**** hockey for the rest of the period and then fire up the engines with 1 minute left in the game. Luckily, we got alot of late game goals,but itwas still so stupid.

Something that I see in him which makes me think he can't be a very successful coach is that he plays to not lose instead of playing to win, and when you play to not lose, you lose.

It should be noted that the Devils scoring is down more than the league-wide scoring is down between 2006-07 and 2007-08. The loss of Rafalski and Gomez, both of whom are having very good seasons this year, has hurt the Devils.

The Devils played a more opened style early in the season, and they were below .500. The team reverted back to a more defensive oriented scheme, which I give a lot of credit to Brent Sutter for doing, and the team turned things around in the standings.

SEASON|NHL|NJD
2006-07|2.88|2.54
2007-08|2.74|2.37
CHANGE|-4.7%|-6.6%

Statistics are through the games of December 30.

It should be noted that the Devils scoring is down more than the league-wide scoring is down between 2006-07 and 2007-08. The loss of Rafalski and Gomez, both of whom are having very good seasons this year, has hurt the Devils.

The Devils played a more opened style early in the season, and they were below .500. The team reverted back to a more defensive oriented scheme, which I give a lot of credit to Brent Sutter for doing, and the team turned things around in the standings.

SEASON|NHL|NJD
2006-07|2.88|2.54
2007-08|2.74|2.37
CHANGE|-4.7%|-6.6%

Statistics are through the games of December 30.

As brought up in another thread about the scoring woes, we aren't hitting the net this year, and I think that is playing a huge part of that % decrease.

As brought up in another thread about the scoring woes, we aren't hitting the net this year, and I think that is playing a huge part of that % decrease.

They need to fire whoever coach it is that is giving them shooting advice. Even Parise is missing the net now and he usually never misses.

julien's style was get a one goal lead, and then sit on it. so when we inevitably gave up the lead, we had to scramble to tie it, or win it, which lead to some amazing last second wins.

As brought up in another thread about the scoring woes, we aren't hitting the net this year, and I think that is playing a huge part of that % decrease.I don't know where to find Shots Blocked Against statistics, so I can't factor that in. However, the Devils have less missed shots per game this year than they did last season by slightly more than one per game.

AVERAGE PER GAME
SEASON|SOG|G|MsS
2006-07|28.5|2.51|12.4
2007-08|28.0|2.37|11.3

Key:
SOG - Shots on Goal
G - Goals
MsS - Missed Shots