Select the *7th* best soccer prospect! (playing in Europe)

-- HF SOCCER PROSPECTS OVERALL RANKING --
#1) Lionel Messi- striker, Argentina, Barcelona- 24/6/87 (22 votes out of 41 -> 53.66%)
#2) Cesc Fabregas- midfielder, Spain, Arsenal- 4/5/87 (22 votes out of 40 -> 55% )
#3) Cristiano Ronaldo - off.midifleder, Portugal, Manchester Utd- 5/2/85 (19 out of 26 votes -> 73.08%)
#4) Karim Benzema- striker, France, Lyon- 19/12/87 (11 out of 34 -> 32.35%)
#5) Bojan Krkic- striker, Spain, Barcelona- 28/8/90 (8 out of 30 -> 26.67%)
#6) Sergio Ramos- defender, Spain, Real Madrid- 30/3/86 (10 out of 26 -> 38.46%)
#7) ?

I added Hugo Lloris to the poll.

Here comes the alphabetical list of the players inserted in the poll for the 2nd overall position (again, the max number of options available in polls is 15, if the guy you would pick is not available in this poll, just click on the ‘others’ option and specify inside this thread the name of the player you rather choose) :

Sergio Aguero- striker, Argentina, Athl.Madrid- 2/6/88
Abreu Anderson- off.midfielder, Brazil, Manchester Utd- 13/4/88
Hatem Ben Arfa- off.midfielder, France, Lyon- 7/3/87
Giovani Dos Santos- striker/off.midfielder, Mexico, Barcelona- 11/5/89
Diego Ribas- off.midfielder, Brazil, Werder Bremen- 28/2/85
Ezequiel Garay- central defender, Argentina, Racing Santander- 10/10/86
Toni Kroos- midfielder, Germany, Bayern Munchen- 4/1/90
Hugo Lloris- keeper, France, Nice- 26/12/86
John Obi Mikel- midfielder, Nigeria, Chelsea- 22/4/87
Samir Nasri- off.midfielder, France, Marseille- 26/6/87
Alexandre Pato- striker, Brazil, Milan- 2/9/89
Micah Richards- defender, England, Manchester City- 24/6/88
Wayne Rooney- striker, England, Manchester Utd- 24/10/85
David Silva- off./lat. midfielder, Spain, Valencia- 8/1/86

- Here is how it is supposed to work -
Only 'prospects' playing in Europe and born on or after 1985 are eligible.
(ANY player born on or after 1985 is considered a 'prospect' here)
I’m going to make a poll to determine who the best prospect is, then another one to vote for #2, etc.. polls will be closed as soon as the winner of that spot has become obvious and the next one will be started immediately. I would say each poll is not supposed to last more than 2 days (feedback will be a factor as well)
Each poll will have a ‘others’ option, so that who feels like his elected guy is not available can choose it and mention his preferred name in the thread.

After voting you’re expected to mention in this thread the player you’d like to be added for the next poll.

Your pick should be intended as the one you would make if you had to draft all these players (just like an NHL GM) assuming you will be able to use them for the next ten years.
You can/should take everything into consideration:
of course age, position (one position can be more important than another in someone's opinion), potential, present skills, head (brain)...
so the list should not be based (only) on who you think are the best now or just for the next year.

If you are undecided, or you have doubts, specific questions about some players or need update on recent performances, go ahead and ask for ‘em in this thread, hopefully the posters following more closely that particular league will provide an answer.


OK, now discuss and/or make your pick!
(explanations of picks are obviously welcomed).

It's Pato again for me.

Still hope to hear more from Germans on Kroos.

Pato for me too.
Add Hazard (Belgium, Lille, 91) or Menez (Monaco, France, 87) or Lucas (Brazil, Liverpool, 87) or Henri Saivet (France, Bordeaux, 91).

Highlights :

Hazard :
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/eden+hazard/video/x285e7_eden-hazard_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/eden+hazard/video/x285la_eden-hazard_news
U17 against England.

Menez :
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/menez/video/x2sw86_montage-jeremy-menez_sport
Compilation made last summer (before his great start this year).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGIhQrqHS-k
Poor quality of image, but high quality of player

Saivet : http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/saivet/video/x1vxw8_jeunes-prodiges-des-girondins-saive_sport
Against Krkic's Spain in the U17.

Lucas :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArqQo0EY77c&feature=related
Compilation

I remind everyone they can suggest the player to be added for the next poll..

however i would say you're not supposed to mention more than two candidates at once (per poll), otherwise i'll use your nominates only as eventual tie breaker.

Hmm, then I'll go with Hazard and Menez.

Rooney time.

Pato - add hmmm....i tend to say Podolski....

Still hope to hear more from Germans on Kroos.

What do you want to hear ?

Great young player. Enough ? ;)

He´s a central midfielder who´s a regular with Bayern Munich 2nd team but has received some soft minutes with the 1st team, too. In his first game he just came in, crossed the ball exactly (and i mean exactly) on Klose´s head -> goal. He added another assist in that game, too.
He´s been named the best player of the U-17 WC and been the 3rd best goalscorer there. It´s a pleasure to watch that speedy midfielder. I´m not going to overrate him, but so far his playmaking and passing skills are impressing for the short time he has had the chance to prove himself on the highest (league) level. He´s good at passing with both feet and he´s got that 'extra feeling' when crossing and/or passing the ball which impresses me the most. He could (!) become a damn good playmaker - something Germany has lacked for years now.

Rooney now. Add Kroos or R. Sobis.

I voted for Pato, but have to question his eligibility. He's not registered to play in Europe yet, right? I don't really agree with that rule anyways.

add mario gomez

I voted for Pato, but have to question his eligibility. He's not registered to play in Europe yet, right? I don't really agree with that rule anyways.LOL, i feared someone would bring this up.. anyway, he is not eligible to play yet (the first game when he would be available is scheduled on 13/1, but the Brasilian federation is closed for holiday in that period so there are doubts the sheets with the authorization will arrive within that date, lol#2 ), but he is property of Milan and training with them (not playing oversea) so that's what we will choose to be enough to determine eligibility :naughty:

Pato, add Babel.

Let's say that Jozy Altidore were to be bought by a European team while we're doing this. Then say, could we add him then?

Pato, add Babel.

Let's say that Jozy Altidore were to be bought by a European team while we're doing this. Then say, could we add him then?Theoretically no, players must have been eligible at the start of this thing.. cause they couldn't be considered for previous polls otherwise.
However if we can unanimously agree that particular player would have not got any consideration before the stage we already reached in the process at the time he is acquired by the European club, then i guess we could still add him.
Property (acquisition) alone is not enough though, the player must be playing (or at least training) in Europe.

rooney. again. I'm getting sick of voting for him. he should already be in.

Theoretically no, players must have been eligible at the start of this thing.. cause they couldn't be considered for previous polls otherwise.
However if we can unanimously agree that particular player would have not got any consideration before the stage we already reached in the process at the time he is acquired by the European club, then i guess we could still add him.
Property (acquisition) alone is not enough though, the player must be playing (or at least training) in Europe.

Pato hasn't played a single game or reserve game for Milan. I'm not even sure if hes training in Europe. He can't until Jan 1st 2008. Maybe he shouldn't be in this poll.

Pato hasn't played a single game or reserve game for Milan. I'm not even sure if hes training in Europe. He can't until Jan 1st 2008. Maybe he shouldn't be in this poll.

Yes he has, both played and trained for whole autumn (no official games as he is ineligible). He played his first game for Milan last summer in the Moscow tournament. For what it's worth, Kalac (keeper) says that Pato has the hardest shot of all Milan players at practices, so hard it his wrist hurst most after trying to stop his shots (he often fails, though);)

Add Babel.

"However, AC Milan will be allowed to include the player in exhibition matches and training beginning September 3, 2007, one day after his 18th birthday. Pato made his non-competitive debut against Dynamo Kyiv on September 7, 2007 and scored a header."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Pato

Pato hasn't played a single game or reserve game for Milan. I'm not even sure if hes training in Europe. He can't until Jan 1st 2008. Maybe he shouldn't be in this poll.Pato has been training in Milano for months now.
Played a friendly against Dynamo Kiev if i'm not wrong (2-2 the outcome).
More importantly, if people felt like he needed to be left out of the poll should have brought their concerns up before starting, when the candidates for the first 14 were chosen and there was still time to address this thing without affecting the whole process.
If otherwise people feel now like Pato needs to be left out so that Rooney can secure at least the 7th spot, then i guess we just shouldn't care.

I'm fine with keeping Pato in, like I said, I voted for him.

But I don't get the whole "playing in Europe" rule in the first place. Why some kid playing in Kazakhstan is eligible and Altidore (and not to mention quite a few South Americans) aren't, that's beyond me.

I'm fine with keeping Pato in, like I said, I voted for him.

But I don't get the whole "playing in Europe" rule in the first place. Why some kid playing in Kazakhstan is eligible and Altidore (and not to mention quite a few South Americans) aren't, that's beyond me.Playing in Europe means visibility.. if it's a relevant player at least. Chances they land in European countries with limited coverage are limited. That could still happen, but we don't expect to run a flawless process here anyway..

'prospects' playing in South America are rarely monitored by European fans, especially beyond the very bests. And we basically don't have any South American contributors here..
You might have a point about 'prospects' playing in North America..
during the years we didn't have lists from North Americans until DevilFisch came around so it was natural to keep it within European boundaries..
fact is, soccer fans in North America are in interested in European soccer and somehow follow European prospects.. whereas European fans obviously don't follow overseas soccer (just like North American baseball fans don't follow European baseball i gues), hence know nothing about North American prospects.. since it would be hard for us having an opinion on them and since European where the ones expected to contribute more to this thing i/we thought it was better to concentrate on players already in Europe.
so, nothing rigorous, arguable i guess, but hope this helps you to figure out what 'logic' was behind it

Rooney the ****..

I thought Babel was already in, so add Babel.

Playing in Europe means visibility.. if it's a relevant player at least. Chances they land in European countries with limited coverage are limited. That could still happen, but we don't expect to run a flawless process here anyway..

'prospects' playing in South America are rarely monitored by European fans, especially beyond the very bests. And we basically don't have any South American contributors here..
You might have a point about 'prospects' playing in North America..
during the years we didn't have lists from North Americans until DevilFisch came around so it was natural to keep it within European boundaries..
fact is, soccer fans in North America are in interested in European soccer and somehow follow European prospects.. whereas European fans obviously don't follow overseas soccer (just like North American baseball fans don't follow European baseball i gues), hence know nothing about North American prospects.. since it would be hard for us having an opinion on them and since European where the ones expected to contribute more to this thing i/we thought it was better to concentrate on players already in Europe.
so, nothing rigorous, arguable i guess, but hope this helps you to figure out what 'logic' was behind it

Fans in North America are interest in European soccer, but not so much in European prospects. Noones downloading reserve and youth team matches. And fans in North America watch more Mexican soccer than anything. I get Argentinian league games every week and if I had GolTV (the channel with La Liga), I'd get Brazilian league games. Who in larger European countries watch the Belgian, Danish, Russian, etc leagues? Shouldn't players from smaller clubs and lower ranked leagues be disqualified too?

So you guys are able judge Pato based on some friendly against Dynamo Kiev?

I get that you guys would be unable to fairly rank most non-European prospects. But if they could make the list despite that, why exclude them altogether? I get that you have a reason. I just think this isn't the "European Soccer" and you're making a mistake. Anyways I'll leave it at that and drop the matter. It's still a great idea to do these polls.

I think the whole point is that there's a much better chance that NA fans know of european prospects than european fans (like myself) knowing NA and SA prospects.

I know I have zero knowledge of NA prospects and very few of SA (I catch a few games of SA football though).

Who in larger European countries watch the Belgian, Danish, Russian, etc leagues? Shouldn't players from smaller clubs and lower ranked leagues be disqualified too?you know what.. when i made my overall list in 2005 i left out the European countries not covered by a HF list for exactly this reasons..
here i thought we would not go that far (top100) and that only the very few known (top)prospects playing in lower leagues would have deserved/got any consideration for a top 30/50 overall list anyway..
probably i should have kept this thing to the best/covered european countries as well.
So you guys are able judge Pato based on some friendly against Dynamo Kiev?more through international events.. so i know you could argue that we could do the same for the others South Americans.. but it's enough guessing on the ones bought from European clubs, which is already an evidence they are supposed to be among the most promising ones..
it's already difficult and inaccurate enough this way..
I get that you guys would be unable to fairly rank most non-European prospects. But if they could make the list despite that, why exclude them altogether? again, it's already difficult and inaccurate enough this way.. judging the players we have more chances to know better..
I get that you have a reason. I just think this isn't the "European Soccer" and you're making a mistake. not sure what you mean here, but we don't claim to be doing "all the soccer" keeping this thing at Europe

Anyways I'll leave it at that and drop the matter. It's still a great idea to do these polls.Thanks, nice to know at least someone overall likes the idea.

I think the whole point is that there's a much better chance that NA fans know of european prospects than european fans (like myself) knowing NA and SA prospects.yeah, that's what i was saying as well..

Yes he has, both played and trained for whole autumn (no official games as he is ineligible). He played his first game for Milan last summer in the Moscow tournament. For what it's worth, Kalac (keeper) says that Pato has the hardest shot of all Milan players at practices, so hard it his wrist hurst most after trying to stop his shots (he often fails, though);)

Add Babel.

"However, AC Milan will be allowed to include the player in exhibition matches and training beginning September 3, 2007, one day after his 18th birthday. Pato made his non-competitive debut against Dynamo Kyiv on September 7, 2007 and scored a header."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Pato

Pato hasn't played a single game for Milan nor the Milan reserve team. Your talking about an exhibition match.

Next pick will be a tough decision. I'm a big fan of much of Rooney's game. I'm still leaning towards Aguero, but might take some time to think it out before voting. At this point it might help to have a little campaigning (accomplishments, stats, etc).

Rooney is my vote here. Compared to what I've seen on XT, Pato seems to have a rabid following here. I've read mixed reviews on Pato from Brazilians. Personally, I think he'll be good. I'd be a bit concerned that he moved to Milan at this age. Also, I think that if you consider everything it's fair to say that Aguero should be getting some more attention here if Pato is getting this much attention.

I'll nominate Alberto Zapater this time.

Shall I close this poll?

Shall I close this poll?Yes. Sorry, i was travelling...

i think this poll should have stayed open a little bit longer.... one vote isn't enough IMO.

i think this poll should have stayed open a little bit longer.... one vote isn't enough IMO.It stayed open for more than our 48hrs (flexible) limit if i'm not wrong.. probably the longer period so far of any other of these polls.. and anyway we had something like 1 vote in the previous 24hrs.. we were just waiting for a tiebreaker.