Select the *6th* best soccer prospect! (playing in Europe)

-- HF SOCCER PROSPECTS OVERALL RANKING --
#1) Lionel Messi- striker, Argentina, Barcelona- 24/6/87 (22 votes out of 41 -> 53.66%)
#2) Cesc Fabregas- midfielder, Spain, Arsenal- 4/5/87 (22 votes out of 40 -> 55% )
#3) Cristiano Ronaldo - off.midifleder, Portugal, Manchester Utd- 5/2/85 (19 out of 26 votes -> 73.08%)
#4) Karim Benzema- striker, France, Lyon- 19/12/87 (11 out of 34 -> 32.35%)
#5) Bojan Krkic- striker, Spain, Barcelona- 28/8/90 (8 out of 30 -> 26.67%)
#6) ?

I added Toni Kroos to the poll.

Here comes the alphabetical list of the players inserted in the poll for the 2nd overall position (again, the max number of options available in polls is 15, if the guy you would pick is not available in this poll, just click on the ‘others’ option and specify inside this thread the name of the player you rather choose) :

Sergio Aguero- striker, Argentina, Athl.Madrid- 2/6/88
Abreu Anderson- off.midfielder, Brazil, Manchester Utd- 13/4/88
Hatem Ben Arfa- off.midfielder, France, Lyon- 7/3/87
Giovani Dos Santos- striker/off.midfielder, Mexico, Barcelona- 11/5/89
Diego Ribas- off.midfielder, Brazil, Werder Bremen- 28/2/85
Ezequiel Garay- central defender, Argentina, Racing Santander- 10/10/86
Toni Kroos- midfielder, Germany, Bayern Munchen- 4/1/90
John Obi Mikel- midfielder, Nigeria, Chelsea- 22/4/87
Samir Nasri- off.midfielder, France, Marseille- 26/6/87
Alexandre Pato- striker, Brazil, Milan- 2/9/89
Sergio Ramos- defender, Spain, Real Madrid- 30/3/86
Micah Richards- defender, England, Manchester City- 24/6/88
Wayne Rooney- striker, England, Manchester Utd- 24/10/85
David Silva- off./lat. midfielder, Spain, Valencia- 8/1/86

- Here is how it is supposed to work -
Only 'prospects' playing in Europe and born on or after 1985 are eligible.
(ANY player born on or after 1985 is considered a 'prospect' here)
I’m going to make a poll to determine who the best prospect is, then another one to vote for #2, etc.. polls will be closed as soon as the winner of that spot has become obvious and the next one will be started immediately. I would say each poll is not supposed to last more than 2 days (feedback will be a factor as well)
Each poll will have a ‘others’ option, so that who feels like his elected guy is not available can choose it and mention his preferred name in the thread.

After voting you’re expected to mention in this thread the player you’d like to be added for the next poll.

Your pick should be intended as the one you would make if you had to draft all these players (just like an NHL GM) assuming you will be able to use them for the next ten years.
You can/should take everything into consideration:
of course age, position (one position can be more important than another in someone's opinion), potential, present skills, head (brain)...
so the list should not be based (only) on who you think are the best now or just for the next year.

If you are undecided, or you have doubts, specific questions about some players or need update on recent performances, go ahead and ask for ‘em in this thread, hopefully the posters following more closely that particular league will provide an answer.


OK, now discuss and/or make your pick!
(explanations of picks are obviously welcomed).

Same vote of the previous poll for me, Alexandre Pato.


It would be nice to hear from our German friends about the new guy added (Toni Kroos) as the last German list is from February and he is no where to be found there.

Kroos was voted MVP at the U17 World Cup & was also the topscorer with nine points (5G= 3rd, 4A.) He's described a playmaking midfielder, something that the DFB lacked for many years. I think Häßler was the last.

He's been used a sub, by Bayern & already saw some Bundesliga & UEFA Cup action. Against Cottbus he came in, when the score was 3-0 and Bayern seemed satisfied, only showcase his talents. Two Pin-point accurate crosses to Klose and the score was 5-0. He was stellar against Red Star Belgrade in the UEFA Cup. It was about 10 min, before the end of the game, with the score 2-1. Kroos spoon fed Klose with a nice cross & later won that game in overtime with a "lucky shot" on a free kick.

- I'm gonna go with the already established Rooney here, btw.

DEFINITELY Sergio Ramos here, and I hate the guy.

Sergio "Tab" Ramos.

DEFINITELY Sergio Ramos here, and I hate the guy.

Hate to go off topic, but Les Habs (or anyone) can you tell me has Dos Santos featured in the first team this season?

And also I know Guy Assulin has been playing extremely well in Barca B (even though its 3rd division) and I was wondering if he was being thought of for the first team even sparingly next season? Would you rate him better than Dos Santos?

I voted for Ramos btw.

Add Rossi.

Ramos over Pato (may regret it later, but it's time for a defender and Pato hasn't yet played real games in Europe).

After this I'll consider Aguero, Rooney, Richards, and Anderson. EPL bias will start to take effect. Time Warner & GolTV are to blame.

Pato then Ramos, I'd start considering Carlos Vela for addition, pretty much every review I've read has been very positive.

would like to see these players added.... Nani, João Moutinho, Miguel Veloso, Diego, Marcelo, Lucas, Vedran Ćorluka, Ivan Rakitić, Luka Modrić, Urby Emanuelson, Ryan Babel, Marcell Jansen, Lukas Podolski, Aaron Lennon, Ryan Donk, Ninis

Diego is already on the list.

Anyway, I voted Pato. Add Lloris or Eden Hazard.

It's too bad people haven't seen Belguim's Eden Hazard much. The guy has seen L1 minutes as a 16 year old. He was fantastic in the U17 Euro where AS AN UNDERAGER, he was highly impressive AND clutch.
Barcelona, ManU and Arsenal all said they were impressed by his performance.
This is the type of things he did at the Euro U17 :
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/eden+hazard/video/x285e7_eden-hazard_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/eden+hazard/video/x285la_eden-hazard_news
Only a slight highlight, but Eden Hazard IS one of the amazing talents of tomorrow.

As for Hugo Lloris, even though he doesn't play the sexiest position, he is IMO the goalkeeper of tomorrow.
Here are two summaries of some his latest games :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HtnCcyOxRQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxL-DOiUN38

It's certainly time for our first defender to be voted in Ramos. Add Lloris, a goalkeeper needs to be brought in.

Pato for me.

Add Lloris.

Pato for me.

Add Lloris.What's your take on Kroos?

add gomez

How the **** Benzema and Bojan are ranked above Rooney goes beyond me. And I despise Wayne Rooney. Benzema and Bojan each have high ceilings and have high expectations to furfill. Yet Rooney has at least met those expectations in an actual full, complete season, both for club as nation.

Sergio Ramos.

Add Luis Suaréz.

Benzema has been better than Rooney this season, he has a higher ceiling, and is younger.

How the **** would Rooney be picked before him if we're not focusing on the past?

Same old, same old. Pato. Add Babel.

Wayne Rooney was a double digit goalscorer in world's toughest league as an 18 year old. He's also the youngest member of the English national squad in history.

I'd say his ceiling isn't shabby, either.

I'd go for the safe bet, who has already completed 5 full seasons before his 22nd birthday as a starter, than two potentially great ones who haven't started for a single, full season even once. Not to mention Benzema only is two years younger than Rooney, yet Rooney is 5 years further in development.

Sergio Ramos.

You have to click the little dot for the vote to count.

Not to mention Benzema only is two years younger than Rooney, yet Rooney is 5 years further in development.

If he was further in his development, then he'd be better. But Benzema's better and he thus has more room to develop.

But Benzema's better

No he's not. And don't use a poll on a hockeyboard to back up your claim.

How the **** Benzema and Bojan are ranked above Rooney goes beyond me. Then i guess it went beyond you how Messi could be picked third ahead of many established and very promising young players 30 months ago...

Then i guess it went beyond you how Messi could be picked third ahead of many established and very promising young players 30 months ago...

At least Messi completed a full season in 2006/2007, proving himself as well in the league as the CL. Not to mention he made noise at a World Cup and singlehandedly won Argentna WC gold during the WC U21 two years ago.

Bojan and Benzema have accomplished neither of this.

At least Messi completed a full season in 2006/2007, proving himself as well in the league as the CL. Not to mention he made noise at a World Cup and singlehandedly won Argentna WC gold during the WC U21 two years ago.

Bojan and Benzema have accomplished neither of this.

Well Bojan has shown himself in quite a few ways. He scored 900+ goals in 7 seasons for Barça while in the cantera. He's done very well for himself in both the UEFA and FIFA U-17 Championships where he was top scorer and third best scorer respectively. He's already playing for Barça in the league and is the youngest ever goalscorer for the club.

I think that the whole concept of the vote is faulthy. For me, a prospect is a player, who hasn't played in pro soccer (same as hockey.) IMO having guys like Messi, Fabregas, Rooney or Diego as options messes up the results. Alternatively, you could've made poll about the top young "established" players.

Just my two cent.

I voted Modric.... Or I would have, if he was on the list. :naughty:

What has Rooney shown, yes he's an exceptional player, but yes he has some major, major weaknesses.

First of all, on the international stage, he hasn't done jack since Euro2004. Inconsistency, injury, and etc. have completely killed his career. Before the Euros, people were talking about a partnership of Owen and Heskey or Crouch which shows how far Rooney's star has fallen on the international stage.

There's also the red card for a very petulant stamp at WC06, but of course he didn't receive the Beckham treatment for that because the English media love him too much.

Second, inconsistent finishing. He does score great goals from time to time and he finishes in the teens, but he misses countless chances every year. I get so tired of hearing, "Well Wayne Rooney usually doesn't miss those." The fact is that he does and he does it a lot. Even against Derby, he couldn't get a foot on a great cross from Ronaldo and then he missed a 1 on 1 with Bywater. People will rave about that chip and how it was so close, but he didn't score and that happens way too often. The reason Manu won the title last year was Ronaldo and the reemergence of Scholes as well as a rock solid defense, not Wayne Rooney. He's never going to be the type of player who will carry a team, we've already seen that with England.

The guys we're talking about here, Krkic and Benzema, do have that kind of potential. Rooney is a phenomenal player, no mistake about that, but ultimately, he's a complimentary player, not the guy who will be the talisman of a team.

What has Rooney shown, yes he's an exceptional player, but yes he has some major, major weaknesses.

First of all, on the international stage, he hasn't done jack since Euro2004. Inconsistency, injury, and etc. have completely killed his career. Before the Euros, people were talking about a partnership of Owen and Heskey or Crouch which shows how far Rooney's star has fallen on the international stage.

There's also the red card for a very petulant stamp at WC06, but of course he didn't receive the Beckham treatment for that because the English media love him too much.

Second, inconsistent finishing. He does score great goals from time to time and he finishes in the teens, but he misses countless chances every year. I get so tired of hearing, "Well Wayne Rooney usually doesn't miss those." The fact is that he does and he does it a lot. Even against Derby, he couldn't get a foot on a great cross from Ronaldo and then he missed a 1 on 1 with Bywater. People will rave about that chip and how it was so close, but he didn't score and that happens way too often. The reason Manu won the title last year was Ronaldo and the reemergence of Scholes as well as a rock solid defense, not Wayne Rooney. He's never going to be the type of player who will carry a team, we've already seen that with England.

The guys we're talking about here, Krkic and Benzema, do have that kind of potential. Rooney is a phenomenal player, no mistake about that, but ultimately, he's a complimentary player, not the guy who will be the talisman of a team.

I think Rooney is getting waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy too much flack in this thread. Like I said before, I can see people thinking he should start getting votes around the 4th spot. I personally don't rate him there, but he'll be getting my vote very soon.

Who are these people who said to look to Crouch, Owen or Heskey? Anyone who would take one of those guys over a fit Rooney is crazy or has some sort of weird tactic they want to use. As for WC 06, the guy was rushed into playing and wasn't 100% match fit. I find it quite harsh to judge him in that tournament.

He isn't the best finisher, but I don't consider him that sort of forward. For me he's a guy who will bag 15-20 goals and get you at least 10 assists to boot. He's probably on pace for 16 goals/16 assists this year and he's already not started in 7 league matches. Anyway, Rooney isnt' just numbers. He fights on both sides of the ball and plays hard. The guys got great passion.

Look, the kid is 22 and he's already been quite impressive. It's entirely plausible that guys like Bojan, Benzema and IMO to a lesser extent Pato will beat him out in his career. Still there's the chance they won't.

I think Rooney is getting waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy too much flack in this thread. Like I said before, I can see people thinking he should start getting votes around the 4th spot. I personally don't rate him there, but he'll be getting my vote very soon.

Who are these people who said to look to Crouch, Owen or Heskey? Anyone who would take one of those guys over a fit Rooney is crazy or has some sort of weird tactic they want to use. As for WC 06, the guy was rushed into playing and wasn't 100% match fit. I find it quite harsh to judge him in that tournament.

He isn't the best finisher, but I don't consider him that sort of forward. For me he's a guy who will bag 15-20 goals and get you at least 10 assists to boot. He's probably on pace for 16 goals/16 assists this year and he's already not started in 7 league matches. Anyway, Rooney isnt' just numbers. He fights on both sides of the ball and plays hard. The guys got great passion.

Look, the kid is 22 and he's already been quite impressive. It's entirely plausible that guys like Bojan, Benzema and IMO to a lesser extent Pato will beat him out in his career. Still there's the chance they won't.

As I said, he's between 5 and 10 for me, I'll start considering him after Pato gets in. And I'm not saying that replacing Rooney with Crouch or Heskey is a good idea, it's awful, but the fact that it was mentioned a couple times shows how far he's gone down internationally.

I understand he was rushed back for the WC, but there's no excuse for stomping on someone's groin in a WC quarterfinal. He has great passion sure, but he gets himself into trouble sometimes.

Again, he's a fantastic player, I can't say that enough. But to borrow an NHL term, is he a franchise player? To use an NHL comparison, I compare him more to a Simon Gagne. Gagne is an incredible player who's great at both ends and is a legit 40 goal threat when healthy and also somehow had a positive +/- on a horrid Flyers team last year. But Gagne isn't quite a franchise player. He's not a Crosby or Ovechkin or Thornton. I see Rooney as being like a Gagne, but Bojan and Benzema have the potential to be an Ovechkin or a Thornton.

Hope that makes sense.

No he's not.

Yes he is. RIGHT NOW, Benzema is having a better season than Rooney, rather significantly.

Then again, it's not a knock on Rooney, very few players can say they're playing as good as Benzema since August 2007.

How the **** Benzema and Bojan are ranked above Rooney goes beyond me. And I despise Wayne Rooney. Benzema and Bojan each have high ceilings and have high expectations to furfill. Yet Rooney has at least met those expectations in an actual full, complete season, both for club as nation.

Sergio Ramos.

Add Luis Suaréz.

Exactly what I said but I got attacked left and right!

At least Messi completed a full season in 2006/2007, proving himself as well in the league as the CL. Not to mention he made noise at a World Cup and singlehandedly won Argentna WC gold during the WC U21 two years ago.

Bojan and Benzema have accomplished neither of this.When i placed Messi 3rd in that old list Messi had accomplished much less at senior level than Benzema (and Krkic) has now. Basically he had accomplished nothing since he only had seen some minutes for Barcelona senior team.
He made some noise at the WC one full YEAR later.
He completed a full season in 2006/2007, as you wrote yourself, whereas the last edition of the previous overall list was realesed in 6/2005.. so i fail to see how these remarks affect my point..

I bet If Rooney didn't play on the hated Manchester united team he would be above a few players...

I think that the whole concept of the vote is faulthy. For me, a prospect is a player, who hasn't played in pro soccer (same as hockey.) IMO having guys like Messi, Fabregas, Rooney or Diego as options messes up the results. again:
Only 'prospects' playing in Europe and born on or after 1985 are eligible.
(ANY player born on or after 1985 is considered a 'prospect' here)

a 'prospect', not a prospect, if it helps you living better through this thing.
(btw, HF consider prospects hockey players that have already been playing pro hockey)

So we're back to the good old HF post like : "Wow, Malkin hasn't proven anything at the NHL level!!!111 ZOMG" from two years ago.

We're projecting people. What Rooney has done in the past has nothing to do with how he should rank compared to people who are only starting their career but who have higher ceiling.

So we're back to the good old HF post like : "Wow, Malkin hasn't proven anything at the NHL level!!!111 ZOMG" from two years ago.Exactly..
What Rooney has done in the past has nothing to do with how he should rank compared to people who are only starting their career but who have higher ceiling.Disagree here, of course. But i guess it's more a problem of how saying than what thinking..

Well, obviously, what he has done gives us a good indication of where he's going, there's really no need to tell.
However, since we're "supposed GMs", what we're taking into account is not past "achievements" but the role the player will adopt in his future.
Who would you rather have now? In 1 year? In 2 years? In 5 years? In 10 years, in 15 years? Benzema or Rooney?
That's the question everyone should ask themselves.

Really, there's no way I could vote Rooney when I see how dominant Benzema already is.

Anyway Helice, when are we closing this? Usual voters have voted, and the 3 vote differential seems hard to surmount as of now.

Well, obviously, what he has done gives us a good indication of where he's going, there's really no need to tell.
However, since we're "supposed GMs", what we're taking into account is not past "achievements" but the role the player will adopt in his future.
Who would you rather have now? In 1 year? In 2 years? In 5 years? In 10 years, in 15 years? Benzema or Rooney?
That's the question everyone should ask themselves.
Obviously i agree here.


Anyway Helice, when are we closing this? Usual voters have voted, and the 3 vote differential seems hard to surmount as of now.In theory i wanted to wait at least 24 hours.. however i don't think you'll be still around at 1AM and unfortunately i can't close it myself as i'm not a mod..
thinking about it.. we have been at 24 votes for a while now and North Americans already had their yesterday evening plus today's morning and afternoon so probably giving it this CET night would not be necessary..
maybe you could close it at midnight if it's not really close by then? maybe some other Europeans will give it a look after the CL games..

Really, there's no way I could vote Rooney when I see how dominant Benzema already is.
And Bojan?

however i don't think you'll be still around at 1AM and unfortunately i can't close it myself as i'm not a mod..


So you've looked around and there's no option to close the poll yourself anymore?

I haven't started a thread with a poll for months now, but when I did earlier this year, I think there was an option to close the poll myself. Can't remember if I had to choose some other option first, from thread tools options perhaps, something like moderate thread -option?

Well, maybe those options have been removed now.

So you've looked around and there's no option to close the poll yourself anymore? nope. i briefly discussed that with Evilo in the first poll thread.. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=11500537#post11500537

I haven't started a thread with a poll for months now, but when I did earlier this year, I think there was an option to close the poll myself. Can't remember if I had to choose some other option first, from thread tools options perhaps, something like moderate thread -option?

Well, maybe those options have been removed now.there is the 'moderate thread' tool that i guess would make that option available, but it denies permission when i try.
without that, i would have to decide when opening the poll how long it would last...

that all..if i'm not missing something ( :retard: )

nope. i briefly discussed that with Evilo in the first poll thread.. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=11500537#post11500537

there is the 'moderate thread' tool that i guess would make that option available, but it denies permission when i try.
without that, i would have to decide when opening the poll how long it would last...

that all..if i'm not missing something ( :retard: )

I don't see any option to close either in a poll I just created to test this, but I'm pretty sure it was an option there in one of the polls I created earlier. I'm not sure when this was excatly (this year? last year?), though.

I read some instructions by a mod in the hockey polls' thread stickies, and the way I understood what was written there, was that it might be possible for a moderator to grant a user a permission to close and otherwise moderate a poll (or thread). If that's possible, perhaps Evilo could give you a permission to do that?

I don't see any option to close either in a poll I just created to test this, but I'm pretty sure it was an option there in one of the polls I created earlier. I'm not sure when this was excatly (this year? last year?), though.

I read some instructions by a mod in the hockey polls' thread stickies, and the way I understood what was written there, was that it might be possible for a moderator to grant a user a permission to close and otherwise moderate a poll (or thread). If that's possible, perhaps Evilo could give you a permission to do that?I was wondering the same thing.. i remember he did it with the serie A and prospects lists threads last year, don't know whether it is still possible or not (he would have to do that for every single poll though..)
btw, thanks for your help gary.

As I said, he's between 5 and 10 for me, I'll start considering him after Pato gets in. And I'm not saying that replacing Rooney with Crouch or Heskey is a good idea, it's awful, but the fact that it was mentioned a couple times shows how far he's gone down internationally.

I understand he was rushed back for the WC, but there's no excuse for stomping on someone's groin in a WC quarterfinal. He has great passion sure, but he gets himself into trouble sometimes.

Again, he's a fantastic player, I can't say that enough. But to borrow an NHL term, is he a franchise player? To use an NHL comparison, I compare him more to a Simon Gagne. Gagne is an incredible player who's great at both ends and is a legit 40 goal threat when healthy and also somehow had a positive +/- on a horrid Flyers team last year. But Gagne isn't quite a franchise player. He's not a Crosby or Ovechkin or Thornton. I see Rooney as being like a Gagne, but Bojan and Benzema have the potential to be an Ovechkin or a Thornton.

Hope that makes sense.

Yeah, and I'm fine with that. I just think he's getting a lot of flack. Personally he'll get my vote before Pato.

Well I don't know the circumstances of them being considered over Rooney or who was doing the considering. Some of us are considering, rather advocating, that Barça sell Ronaldinho and he had a really good season compared to most last year.

Well that sorta depends. If a team has more than one franchise player, then yeah he is. If not, I'd say it's Ronaldo. Still Rooney is second at the moment.

No, it does. I just think if the injuries in his career were aside we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I closed the poll.

In order for you Helice to be a thread moderaor, I need to ask an admin to do it, but since it's multiple threads we're talking about, it's not really easy.
Remember I gave you moderating powers on the Serie A thread a while ago.
But here, I would have to ask the admins every two days.

And Bojan?

Bojan is all about potential, like Pato.
That's really like picking John Tavares over Kyle Turris.

again:
a 'prospect', not a prospect, if it helps you living better through this thing.
(btw, HF consider prospects hockey players that have already been playing pro hockey)

The term prospect is the rough for me. IMO, young player would be a much term. My mistake about pro hockey, I meant the NHL.

So we're back to the good old HF post like : "Wow, Malkin hasn't proven anything at the NHL level!!!111 ZOMG" from two years ago.


It's quite the opposite, Evilo. On HF prospects or even (high) 1st round picks are valued more than established players or making the playoffs. This whole soccer prospect stuff that's going on right now sometimes seems like a carbon copy of this gung-ho HF mentality.

No because all are YOUNG players.
Again, when Malkin was tearing it up in Russia, people here were saying he was "UNPROVEN".
We're not taking Pato over Henry AS OF NOW.
We're talking about players over their career. What is so hard to understand?

Who would pick Pato over Rooney NOW? Nobody.

Who would pick Pato over Rooney over the next 10 years? I would.

It think that it had something to do with Malkin playing in Russia.

Not all young players are going to be impact players they were projected to be. Look, what happened to Lukas Poldolski! Two years ago, he was a highly regarded & upcomming player.

So let me give you another example, since Malkin is not good for you.

When Spezza was coming into the league and shining. Would you have picked him before Crosby or Ovechkin, two highly touted talents who had yet to play in the NHL?

Rooney is just like Spezza : a fantastic young player. But there are players with higher potential and it'd be ridiculous not to pick them because your guy is "proven".

Bojan is all about potential, like Pato.
That's really like picking John Tavares over Kyle Turris.
Kyle Turris? You're comparing Rooney to Kyle Turris? What a joke.

Kyle Turris? You're comparing Rooney to Kyle Turris? What a joke.
Why? Kyle Turris, Jason Spezza, no matter how you look at it, Rooney is a very good young player.

So let me give you another example, since Malkin is not good for you.

When Spezza was coming into the league and shining. Would you have picked him before Crosby or Ovechkin, two highly touted talents who had yet to play in the NHL?

Rooney is just like Spezza : a fantastic young player. But there are players with higher potential and it'd be ridiculous not to pick them because your guy is "proven".

I think it's a faulthy comparison. Rooney made his pro-debut years before Spezza made his (in terms of age.)

Perhaps a Spezza- Tavares comparison makes more sense.