This team is flawed and cannot win a Cup as currently constructed. (merged)

The team as it is constructed cannot win a championship. There's just WAY to many holes that even the best of systems cannot patch up.

Our go-to-guy is starting to age. Jagr at this age is better than most players in the league that I concede, but in order for him to maximize his abilities he needs to be comfortable with the system he's playing and (more importantly) the players he's playing with and right now I'm not sure that he's comfortable with either. The same guy we saw come off the wall with that wicked wrister last season and the season before is not there. The guy we saw take over games with his determination is not there. Be it age, or the comfort factor I don't know and I don't care. It's not there for him his year and the team (while still winning more than losing) is suffering because of it.

Shanahan, while not the only problem is way to old to be looked at as the solution. He's no longer that type of player that can physically pay the price to consistently get in those price scoring positions needed to make better use of his obvious declining shot.

The forwards we have are not the snipers needed to feed off of Gomez or Drury, they aren't big & talented enough to create space for other players on the ice to benefit from those getting double teamed and when odd time that they are open from that, the decision to pass instead of shoot is made more often than it should be.

There's not enough selfish players on this team in terms of goalscoring that any real contending team needs in oder to win a cup.

The defence is also full of holes.

While we have the highest scoring defence in the league, we have no offensive weapon weapon back there that forces the opposition to remain honest. Additionally, we have no bruisers back there that are capable of playing a physical style in fromt of our own nets which allows opposing forwards the ability to roma free un-checked in from of Henrik.

Finally, our coaching. Yes we are playing a system that is sound fundamentally on Defence, but it lacks any creativity on offence and by design prevents for any free-flowing creativity from our forwards.

Add to all of that the fact that our forwards have shown NO chemistry I fail to see how anyone can look at this team as anything other than a marginal PO team or a team with a quick 1st round exit on the menu.

Problem is:

Jagr - Untradeable
Shanny - You could probably trade him, but I don't think that would happen.
Drury - Untradeable, no one wants his contract.
Gomez - Untradable, see Drury

Therefore, you're stuck with trading your young players/prospects.

Our team is too Small. And way to streaky. We have no secondary scoring since Hossa, Prucha, and Cally couldn't score a goal on an empty net it seems.

I have said it before and I will say it again. We need a Power forward and not another player that is under 6 foot. We need a Bertuzzi, Antropot, Heatly type of player. Somebody that will plant his big a$$ in front of the net and cause havic.

Problem is:

Jagr - Untradeable
Shanny - You could probably trade him, but I don't think that would happen.
Drury - Untradeable, no one wants his contract.
Gomez - Untradable, see Drury

Therefore, you're stuck with trading your young players/prospects.

Jagr is certainly tradeable. And so is Shanahan.

I don't think you want to trade Drury and Gomex (proabably can't anyway). If you lose Jagr, it's Drury and Gomez, you're building around.

I think the NHL this year is just high quality. Look at the closeness in the records. Most teams are balanced. Hard to win.

I think the NHL this year is just high quality. Look at the closeness in the records. Most teams are balanced. Hard to win.

High quality or parity of OK teams?

the sky is falling! the sky is falling!!

I think the construction of the team, is even better than expected this season. Heart and consistancy are this teams issue, not the manpower. On ice leadership doesn't really seem to be there either right now, even from Shanny. (whom I said is captain from the begining). Is this team cup capable? Absolutely, when they stick to the game plan and play consistant.

There are quite a few problems. The most important stems from Jagr. He has no chemestry with Drury. This forces you to have a rookie in Dubinsky playing first line center, and even here there isn't the greatest of chemestry. I don't know if it is a lack of chemestry as much as Jagr just being crappy this season. I mean, was Nylander really that important to Jagr's success?

Another problem is you have a guy like Hossa playing a power forward position but he can't put the puck in the net for crap. I know this is because Avery is out, but I'd much rather have someone like Dawes playing on that 2nd line than Hossa at this point. At least he's had some success with Gomez & Shanny.

Then you have Prucha who can't score for **** right now. IDK what his problem is. He's playing a decent, energetic game, but he can't score for crap.

Callahan - see Prucha. Same idea, playing a energetic game, creating chances, but neither can finish.

Gomez - Best player on the team right now IMO.

Shanny - He's been average, hasn't really done too much at even strength either.

Drury - Invisible at even strength. Doesn't really do too much to help Callahan & Prucha break out of their slumps.

Avery - 2nd best player on the team

Straka - Also been quite invisible since he's come back.

Here's the thing. We have two 2nd line centers and one rookie who's not anywhere near his potential yet. The problem is the only one who has meshed any bit well with our "superstar" is that rookie.

You figure out the math. As much as I sometimes think Rodent is crazy, he was right at the beginning of the season when he said that bringing in two new centers was going to cause great growing pains for this team and that this team will probably not be a cup contender until at least next season.

I think the construction of the team, is even better than expected this season. Heart and consistancy are this teams issue, not the manpower. On ice leadership doesn't really seem to be there either right now, even from Shanny. (whom I said is captain from the begining). Is this team cup capable? Absolutely, when they stick to the game plan and play consistant.

They don't have a killer instinct.

I think Joe made a great point last night: at 2-0 down, he said that the Leafs really haven't done much but the Rangers had done less.

honestly, watching malik play makes me sick. he's a slightly better tom poti defensivly, but just as soft.

now who else will be traded besides him, i am not sure, but wouldn't be surprised if malik and prucha go for a major upgrade on D.

They don't have a killer instinct.

I think Joe made a great point last night: at 2-0 down, he said that the Leafs really haven't done much but the Rangers had done less.

Actually I thought right after that they kicked it in gear. They tied the game, they had twice as many shots on net. Then the double minor happened, and the rest was a waste of time. Your right about the killer instinct though, they should've been like a swarm of bee's all night, instead they looked lost.

they should've been like a swarm of bee's all night, instead they looked lost.

Especially after their performance against Carolina.

The team as it is constructed cannot win a championship. There's just WAY to many holes that even the best of systems cannot patch up.

Our go-to-guy is starting to age. Jagr at this age is better than most players in the league that I concede, but in order for him to maximize his abilities he needs to be comfortable with the system he's playing and (more importantly) the players he's playing with and right now I'm not sure that he's comfortable with either. The same guy we saw come off the wall with that wicked wrister last season and the season before is not there. The guy we saw take over games with his determination is not there. Be it age, or the comfort factor I don't know and I don't care. It's not there for him his year and the team (while still winning more than losing) is suffering because of it.

.

We don't agree (or disagree) on everything else you posted but this is the main issue of the team and we agree 100%. This team's ultimate success is tied to Jagr and getting him and his line going full throttle. Everything else is minor or tunable in my eyes.

I like DUbi, but atthis stagfe in his career he just isn't the C for Jagr and would be a better fit on the 3rd line. Unfortuantely, there isn't anybody else that has proven they can work with Jagr as a center..We're no more in synch on the top three lines then we were at the beginning of the season...And that is the job of the caoch and/or GM to fix it.....Maybe Straka as a C for Jagr with somebody filling in on LW is worth a shot? If not that, and none of the already tried combos click, we night be trading for a temporary UFA-to be passing center before too long...

ANd, lets face it, given the total inability of our 3rd and 4th liners to score, the first two lines and Jagr really have to take off.

The lack of scoring from the 4th line is tolerable becasue of what else they do or can bring but it's the utter offensive incompetnece of support offensive players like Hossa, Prucha and Callahan that really put all the pressure on the top 2 lines. Hell, look at these numbers:

HOSSA 1G in 30 games (scoreless in 29)
PRUCHA 1G in 28 games (scoreless in 9)
CALLY 1G in 19 games (scoreless in 11)

One thing that's also happening is the fact that there's only one energy line (3rd). The 4th line doesn't have that attribute anymore. In the past two years, the fourth line would come on and you'd have Hollweg skating around and checking everything that moves and Ortmeyer giving up his body for the good of the team. Now you have a Hollweg who hardly checks anymore, and a slow Orr who can't even catch anyone to hit.
Ortmeyer was the blood of the fourth line and gave life to the other lines.

HOSSA 1G in 30 games (scoreless in 29)
PRUCHA 1G in 28 games (scoreless in 9)
CALLY 1G in 19 games (scoreless in 11)
To make it more fun:
Drury - 6G in 28 games, last ES goal, 6 games ago, and before that 17 games ago, and before that 28 games ago. Ick.

Gomez and Drury are BOTH tradeable. Kevin Lowe, anyone? Dude can't sign a free agent, you don't think he'd jump at the chance to take either off our hands for a 4th rounder? That said, I wouldn't trade Drury, you want a guy like that around. Gomez, on the other hand, I'd move in a second. Personally, I'd bomb the team, but that's just me. I'd get rid of Jagr, Shanny and Straka and try to get it on either the Lecavalier or Jokinen sweepstakes' (One of them will be moved).

But this team won't be bombed. and there's no need to panic. We're going to the playoffs, we'll probably win a round, but yea, no cup for this team as currently constructed. But look, in 5 years we'll still have Henrik and an orgasm worthy top 4 on defense. I think we'll win a cup in the next ten or so years.

We should try to make a Trade using Prucha ($1.6 mil salary that isn't deserved) as the centerpiece for a power forward. I think if Drury and Cally had a PW on that line it would start scoring more.

Prucha won't get you back jack in a trade. 1 goal in 28 games isn't going to get you much.

And I don't agree with those that say heart is a problem. Indivudually, almost every player gives their all. But, offensively, the total lack of chemistry, teamwork and concerted effort makes it appear otherwise..We are no closer to being in synch on the top 3 lines then we were on the 1st game of the season and that needs to be fixed SOMEHOW and is the job of the coach and GM.

Sounds like I'm toally dissing this team, I'm not.. I really like the D and The King, and think both will come back to form, but we need the offense make a run in the POs..

We should get Tucker or Neil, so they can play when avery hurts him self every other game.

Gomez and Drury are BOTH tradeable. Kevin Lowe, anyone? Dude can't sign a free agent, you don't think he'd jump at the chance to take either off our hands for a 4th rounder? That said, I wouldn't trade Drury, you want a guy like that around. Gomez, on the other hand, I'd move in a second. Personally, I'd bomb the team, but that's just me. I'd get rid of Jagr, Shanny and Straka and try to get it on either the Lecavalier or Jokinen sweepstakes' (One of them will be moved).

They both have NTCs.

One thing that's also happening is the fact that there's only one energy line (3rd). The 4th line doesn't have that attribute anymore. In the past two years, the fourth line would come on and you'd have Hollweg skating around and checking everything that moves and Ortmeyer giving up his body for the good of the team. Now you have a Hollweg who hardly checks anymore, and a slow Orr who can't even catch anyone to hit.
Ortmeyer was the blood of the fourth line and gave life to the other lines.

That 3rd line, and especially Prucha and Cally, provide jack...The 4th line isn't flying around the ice butthey are doing exactly what Renney wants...Playing sound defense, playing physical, playing smart, and occupying other team's top lines and ffeeingthe other lines from that duty so they can score---but those 3 lines aren't doingtheir job AT ALL..Only the 4th line is..

We should try to make a Trade using Prucha ($1.6 mil salary that isn't deserved) as the centerpiece for a power forward. I think if Drury and Cally had a PW on that line it would start scoring more.

Why exactly would any team really desire Petr Prucha right now? His trade value can't get much lower than it is right now.

Prucha won't get you back jack in a trade. 1 goal in 28 games isn't going to get you much.

Then waive him to Hartford (he probably won't get claimed) and bring up somebody else. It will also give us more cap room to try for a trade.

Sounds like I'm toally dissing this team, I'm not.. I really like the D and The King, and think both will come back to form, but we need the offense make a run in the POs..

Eh, I think the D is serviceable, but I think it relies heavily on (2) very inexperienced players and (2) players assuming a more of a role than they're cut out for. At very least, I'd like to see Strudwick as a guy threatening to fill in for a struggling d-man instead if a being a staple on the blue line.

Then waive him to Hartford (he probably won't get claimed) and bring up somebody else. It will also give us more cap room to try for a trade.

He probably would get claimed.

Eh, I think the D is serviceable, but I think it relies heavily on (2) very inexperienced players and (2) players assuming a more of a role than they're cut out for. At very least, I'd like to see Strudwick as a guy threatening to fill in for a struggling d-man instead if a being a staple on the blue line.

With Mara back, and Malik on the 3rd pair (and Struds how you mentioned), I am fine with the defense. It's not great but it is servicable to good. But I was mostly commenting on the team defense (including The King), which has been a strength most of the season and I think can remain so

With all due respect to the original poster...in the salary cap era, every team is flawed..you ned to make sacrifices somewhere in order to bring in top notch talent as the Rangers did...the Rangers just happen to be going through a rough patch right now..

He probably would get claimed.

I honestly don't think so b/c of his contract size. Anyway clearing his cap space would be more of a service to the Rangers than what he is doing on the ice.

With Mara back, and Malik on the 3rd pair (and Struds how you mentioned), I am fine with the defense. It's not great but it is servicable to good. But I was mostly commenting on the team defense (including The King), which has been a strength most of the season and I think can remain so

Given that the defense has had at least one injury all season at any given time, a situation that forces Strudwick into the lineup, does that fact alone indicate a depth problem at defense? Do you feel comfortable going into a playoff round knowing that you're an injury away from having Struds as a lock for the top 6?

I guess what I'm asking is, given a choice to move a tradeable asset for either a scoring winger or a 2nd pairing defenseman, do you go for the offense?

Also Maybe Cally should be sent down to the AHL to get a little more seasoning bc he isn't doing much up here. Bring up another kid and see what they can do. It couldn't hurt.

I honestly don't think so b/c of his contract size. Anyway clearing his cap space would be more of a service to the Rangers than what he is doing on the ice.

His contract size? He's owed 1.6 for this year and 1.6 for next. That's reasonable. A struggling team might be reluctant to give up assets for him, but to get a former 30 goal scorer for nothing, they would certainly take a chance.

Given that the defense has had at least one injury all season at any given time, a situation that forces Strudwick into the lineup, does that fact alone indicate a depth problem at defense? Do you feel comfortable going into a playoff round knowing that you're an injury away from having Struds as a lock for the top 6?

I guess what I'm asking is, given a choice to move a tradeable asset for either a scoring winger or a 2nd pairing defenseman, do you go for the offense?

I would go for the offense. Right now.

His contract size? He's owed 1.6 for this year and 1.6 for next. That's reasonable. A struggling team might be reluctant to give up assets for him, but to get a former 30 goal scorer for nothing, they would certainly take a chance.

The other reason I say trade him now, besides the fact we could use some cap room to make a trade for a PF or D-man. Is that after next season he probably won't be a Ranger. He isn't a Renney favorite, hasn't been producing at all this season, Jagr Straks and Malik will all be gone, so there is no more czech pull. Try to get something for him now before you let him go for nothing. Even if we get a 6th rd pick we get something and cap relief. Losing his contract might actually give us enough relief where Shanny's bonus wouldnt hit next year but this year. (barring any other trades). At least that's my reasoning.

Given that the defense has had at least one injury all season at any given time, a situation that forces Strudwick into the lineup, does that fact alone indicate a depth problem at defense? Do you feel comfortable going into a playoff round knowing that you're an injury away from having Struds as a lock for the top 6?

I guess what I'm asking is, given a choice to move a tradeable asset for either a scoring winger or a 2nd pairing defenseman, do you go for the offense?

Why not both? I'm serious. I think the fixing of the offense of the top 3 lines thorugh either internal moves or a trade is the first priority. There is some hope that getting Avery back will remedy alot, but I don't think it will be a cure-all. Current Rangers will either have to step up or we will make a deal with an asset or two for a top 9 forward.

Now, if come the deadline, and our offensive woes are a thing of the past and it really looks like we have a shot in the POs, Iwould have no problem with also giving up a prospect and/or a pick for a veteran D-man to add to the roster for a Cup run.

the sky is falling! the sky is falling!!

+1


people need to chill.

Problem is:

Jagr - Untradeable
Shanny - You could probably trade him, but I don't think that would happen.
Drury - Untradeable, no one wants his contract.
Gomez - Untradable, see Drury

Therefore, you're stuck with trading your young players/prospects.
Ok just wanna know why were even thinking of trading them?? This is still a contending team, they lose a few games and all the sudden lets start dumping our stars. Why trade Jagr? He is our best player, he is struggling it happens.

Can we stop worrying geez. God forbid they show theyre human by losing a few. Then when they start winning again and jagr is scoring everyone will shutup again like the hypocrites that they are. Seriously just relax and be patient. You have one the best goalies in the game, two of the best players ever to play, and two younger play makers. Plus the defense is contributing.

If anything, these last two games i put fault on lundqvist as he didnt perform as well as he could have. Granted Dubinsky was bad against carolina and team-wise they did struggle, lundqvist still could have played better. But is anyone saying trade lundqvist? No because you know hes our guy, just like jagr is.

and if your gonna complain about the snipers......THEN ADD ONE

With all due respect to the original poster...in the salary cap era, every team is flawed..you ned to make sacrifices somewhere in order to bring in top notch talent as the Rangers did...the Rangers just happen to be going through a rough patch right now..

I agree with that. The Cap is going to force mediocrity down everyone's throats, but the fact of the matter is that the Rangers don't have a Langenbrunner type whi I think would fit perfectly on this team. There's just not enough players on this team with the combination of size and skill that is willing to go to the net with
regularity.

Avery is one, 5+ years ago Shanny was another.

Instead the Rangers have almost 3 million wrapped up in Prucha and Hossa. Praise that little guys soul, but for all the trying he does he's really not getting anything done out there (speaking of Prucha)

I'm fine with the 4th line. They are all low paid, and play their roles well enough for me, but the 1st through 3rd lines are not producing and while there are many factors causing that, I believe that more than anything else, it's the composition make up of the players that is the biggest reason for it.

Ok just wanna know why were even thinking of trading them?? This is still a contending team, they lose a few games and all the sudden lets start dumping our stars. Why trade Jagr? He is our best player, he is struggling it happens.

Can we stop worrying geez. God forbid they show theyre human by losing a few. Then when they start winning again and jagr is scoring everyone will shutup again like the hypocrites that they are. Seriously just relax and be patient. You have one the best goalies in the game, two of the best players ever to play, and two younger play makers. Plus the defense is contributing.

If anything, these last two games i put fault on lundqvist as he didnt perform as well as he could have. Granted Dubinsky was bad against carolina and team-wise they did struggle, lundqvist still could have played better. But is anyone saying trade lundqvist? No because you know hes our guy, just like jagr is.

and if your gonna complain about the snipers......THEN ADD ONE

Someone made the suggestion, I said that they're untradeable ;).

Well thanks for the notice, at least I don't need to watch any of the games anymore and can sell the rest of my season tickets because some guy on HF thinks the team is flawed and can't win the cup.

Given that the defense has had at least one injury all season at any given time, a situation that forces Strudwick into the lineup, does that fact alone indicate a depth problem at defense? Do you feel comfortable going into a playoff round knowing that you're an injury away from having Struds as a lock for the top 6?

I guess what I'm asking is, given a choice to move a tradeable asset for either a scoring winger or a 2nd pairing defenseman, do you go for the offense?

for me it would depend on who that winger was and how he played the game.

We have a team full of 2nd pairing defenceman, I think we are really lacking that goalscoring winger.

Well thanks for the notice, at least I don't need to watch any of the games anymore and can sell the rest of my season tickets because some guy on HF thinks the team is flawed and can't win the cup.

Glad I can help.

I'll send you my bill.

Why not both? I'm serious. I think the fixing of the offense of the top 3 lines thorugh either internal moves or a trade is the first priority. There is some hope that getting Avery back will remedy alot, but I don't think it will be a cure-all. Current Rangers will either have to step up or we will make a deal with an asset or two for a top 9 forward.

Now, if come the deadline, and our offensive woes are a thing of the past and it really looks like we have a shot in the POs, Iwould have no problem with also giving up a prospect and/or a pick for a veteran D-man to add to the roster for a Cup run.

Yah, I guess that's the most appropriate way to address the issue. You're right in that the legitimacy of the team as a Cup contender lies with their ability to generate more offense above all else. If that doesn't happen, then you really have to question just how much of a shot they have this year.

He probably definitely would get claimed.

Fixed. :)

After all, there are lots of teams that have the cap room and he isnt even expensive.
He is getting paid either the same or way less than plenty of guys who have done less this season than he has... guys who COULD be waived and not get picked up.

:)




There's no smiling allowed in this thread. This is the, "we lost two games, our season is over, let's blow the team up" thread. If you'd like to smile please do so somewhere else as there is not enough room for it here. Thanks in advance.

There's no smiling allowed in this thread. This is the, "we lost two games, our season is over, let's blow the team up" thread. If you'd like to smile please do so somewhere else as there is not enough room for it here. Thanks in advance.

:scared: <-- heh... better?
Beleive me I know those threads... the Isles board has a bunch of them right now too, since they are on an actual losing streak! Theres even a thread from a guy who wishes Yashin was still there- talk about not smiling! :shakehead

Fixed. :)

After all, there are lots of teams that have the cap room and he isnt even expensive.
He is getting paid either the same or way less than plenty of guys who have done less this season than he has... guys who COULD be waived and not get picked up.


Fine w/ me. Let him waste $1.6 mil on another teams cap space and still not score. Next Rookie step up and give your best shot.

There's no smiling allowed in this thread. This is the, "we lost two games, our season is over, let's blow the team up" thread. If you'd like to smile please do so somewhere else as there is not enough room for it here. Thanks in advance.
I didn't like you at first but I am starting to agree with you now. We lost two games. Yes we are streaky but the season is still very very young. Adventually something will change and if it doesn't im sure we will see some changes. There was too much hype surrounding this team. Look at the flyers ( I hate them). They had alot of hype too and they are streaky as well. Yes we have more high end players but as we see that doesn't mean ****. We are in a battle for the top of the division after having a terrible start (much worse then we are playing now). They picked it up and lost it again. Lets see how it goes tonight vs Atlanta. They are a low quality team IMO and if we can't handle them hopefully lines will be shufffled around. It took Renny a long ass time to figure out the proper pp units and he found them now (kinda) so mabye he needs another kick in the ass to get that top line how it should be with Jagr, Drury and Straka moving Dubinsky to the third line with players of his caliber not those playing on a much higher level.

In hindsight, your captaincy should have been put up for grabs in the off season after taking in big $$$$ players like Gomez and Drury ...... with Drury eventually getting the nod for captain.

Yagr does't look like he wants the "C" and would probably play better without it. Shanny won't be around much longer, so why not Drury ?

Renney missed the boat on this one IMO.

He should have taken a note out of Sutters book.

I disagree, I think this team has all the pieces to win the Cup. They have just started slowly, that is all.

Sooner or later, the offense will start to properly click and we'll be flying.


Dont forget, we are right there in the division race and our best skill players have yet to get on a hot streak.


Be patient. I know its hard to do these days ( MTV, mircorwave culture and all that ). But be patient.

I didn't like you at first but I am starting to agree with you now. We lost two games. Yes we are streaky but the season is still very very young. Adventually something will change and if it doesn't im sure we will see some changes. There was too much hype surrounding this team. Look at the flyers ( I hate them). They had alot of hype too and they are streaky as well. Yes we have more high end players but as we see that doesn't mean ****. We are in a battle for the top of the division after having a terrible start (much worse then we are playing now). They picked it up and lost it again. Lets see how it goes tonight vs Atlanta. They are a low quality team IMO and if we can't handle them hopefully lines will be shufffled around. It took Renny a long ass time to figure out the proper pp units and he found them now (kinda) so mabye he needs another kick in the ass to get that top line how it should be with Jagr, Drury and Straka moving Dubinsky to the third line with players of his caliber not those playing on a much higher level.



I've been known to rub people the wrong way at first. My apologies. I think people have been spoiled with the fact that this team got off to a good start even though they weren't scoring goals. Like I said, this is the first time we've lost two straight games in regulation all season. What did people expect? This not to happen? Are we playing well right now? Absolutley not but it's no reason to think we won't get it together and start playing well again.

And MetalChick...Yashin? Yashin!??! Man...losing streaks do funny things to people.

With Mara back, and Malik on the 3rd pair (and Struds how you mentioned), I am fine with the defense. It's not great but it is servicable to good. But I was mostly commenting on the team defense (including The King), which has been a strength most of the season and I think can remain so

We've got the best defense in the NHL. It may not speak for the league, but our Ds are scored on less then anyone else and they have scored more goals then the rest.

We've got the best defense in the NHL. It may not speak for the league, but our Ds are scored on less then anyone else and they have scored more goals then the rest.

We do but I think the #'s are skewed a little b/c of Lundy's amazing start. But overall I think you are correct that we do have one of the best D's.

Could the Rangers use an offensive defenseman?Sure but so can the majority of the teams in the NHL.

Renney doesn't like Prucha?

unfortunately this is a number that's impossible to calculate, but one needs to decide how much Lundqvist accounts for the GAA, and how much the defesne accounts for the GAA. I think you're a bit biased against Lundqvist and a bit biased towards defensemen in general, so no offense, but I know your answer. Me, I think if Lundqvist doesn't have his 'A' game going, and if the forwards aren't carrying a lot of the play, the defensive flaws show and the story's a bit different.

We do but I think the #'s are skewed a little b/c of Lundy's amazing start. But overall I think you are correct that we do have one of the best D's.
You don't have to have best defensemen to have the best defense. Rangers had for a while the very best players in the world yet failed to make a playoffs all those years. I do not find Ludqvist start spectacular. Good solid play. The last two games were below the NHL level.
I blame lack of offense on GM who seem not be able to comprehend what is that his coaching staff is doing and keeps supplying the players that have no place on this team. Last year he brought us Hall, Ward, Dupui, Isbister and Cuillen. All failed to make roster on this year team. On the other hand, all players that Shoenfield supplied (with Dawes not being neither exception nor proof) did well over two season period. Big acquisitions of Slats - Shanny, Gomez, Drury, wile taking 20 million of cap space do not contribute more then the rookie simply because they do not fit current system well.

unfortunately this is a number that's impossible to calculate, but one needs to decide how much Lundqvist accounts for the GAA, and how much the defesne accounts for the GAA. I think you're a bit biased against Lundqvist and a bit biased towards defensemen in general, so no offense, but I know your answer. Me, I think if Lundqvist doesn't have his 'A' game going, and if the forwards aren't carrying a lot of the play, the defensive flaws show and the story's a bit different.
Henke do not have B game. It is either A or F. He might show his A+ game. I would never ask for such, except come playoff time.

We have never had the best defense in the league, while taking away the goaltender. Detroit for example, anyone? They allow a ridiculously low amount of shots against, season after season.

As for Lundqvist either being A or F in his game, geesh. Talk about polarity. What sort of grade do you have left then if Lundqvist would let in the first shots that he should have 98/100 times, while the defense would be working? Z?

Lundqvist is stopping the initial shots that he should have, is not making the key saves and is struggling with the rebounds. I would call this his B or C game.

As for if this team is flawed, I would say yes. Looking at salaries is one way of looking how teams are constructed. Where do GM:s put the most gunpowder? While overpaid albatrosses might misform us, it's still an indication of how teams are built. The fact is still, Rangers are putting a very high amount of money at forwards ($35 million) and a really low amount of money at the defensemen ($10 million). Compare this with which teams I consider Stanley Cup frontrunners:
Ottawa: 22/17
Detroit: 21/19
Anaheim: 19/17

We have the highest forward salaries in the entire league, but is last in goals scored. We also have among the cheapest defensemen in the entire league and are in the top in goals against.

Summarizing, we have too few quality defensemen on this team to win a cup. We're not good enough to beat any of the three teams above in a 7 game series. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm a realist.

through December last season - he played well, but not great. It wasn't F, and it surely wasn't A. When he turned it to A, the team turned around.

There's no smiling allowed in this thread. This is the, "we lost two games, our season is over, let's blow the team up" thread. If you'd like to smile please do so somewhere else as there is not enough room for it here. Thanks in advance.
Seriously right. Other teams fans must be laughing when they see this thread. The Rangers are still a deadly team.

You don't have to have best defensemen to have the best defense. Rangers had for a while the very best players in the world yet failed to make a playoffs all those years. I do not find Ludqvist start spectacular. Good solid play. The last two games were below the NHL level.
I blame lack of offense on GM who seem not be able to comprehend what is that his coaching staff is doing and keeps supplying the players that have no place on this team. Last year he brought us Hall, Ward, Dupui, Isbister and Cuillen. All failed to make roster on this year team. On the other hand, all players that Shoenfield supplied (with Dawes not being neither exception nor proof) did well over two season period. Big acquisitions of Slats - Shanny, Gomez, Drury, wile taking 20 million of cap space do not contribute more then the rookie simply because they do not fit current system well.

I strongly agree with this sentiment.

I see this team as a rather funny mix of what Renney and Schoenfeld are trying to do (Prucha,Dubinsky,Callahan,Lundqvist,Tyutin,Staal) and what stupid Sather is trying to do (Shanahan, Malik, Mara, etc). I love Dubinsky but I also feel that him centering the 1st line is ridiculous since then Drury is on the 3rd line and not earning his pay. I think Gomez can center Jagr well with Avery doing the dirty work on that line.

What will it take for this team to win the Cup?

1. Sather shuts up and lets Renney and Schoenfeld totally run the show
2. We do not re-sign Shany. We get rid of Straka and Malik and Mara.

If we have lines similar to this next season, we can win the Cup:
Avery - Gomez - Jagr
Prucha - Drury - Callahan
Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov
Hollweg - Betts - Hossa

Tyutin - Girardi
Staal - Rozsival
Sanguinetti -Strudwick/FA


Notes:
Orr - will be the 13th forward in case we need toughness...I just dont think he should play too much
Defense - We could use a good free agent to play with Sanguinetti on the 3rd pair. Strudwick wont cut it.

So basically without Malik, Mara, Straka, Shany, our really only old guy would be Jagr and he still has some life left in him. I trully feel that 2nd line, which is playing well now, can play even better with more ice time. I think Callahan can easily score 20 goals with more ice time, so can Prucha. Drury can get better too. The 3rd line would be excellent with Anisimov or Cherepanov in the mix.

I strongly agree with this sentiment.

I love Dubinsky but I also feel that him centering the 1st line is ridiculous since then Drury is on the 3rd line and not earning his pay. I think Gomez can center Jagr well with Avery doing the dirty work on that line.

Dubi is the only center that has shown he can play w/ Jagr. Gomez would be the worst choice. It failed the first time it will fail again. Also on no team should Avery be on the 1st line. He's lucky to be on our second line. Ideally he is a third line player.


What will it take for this team to win the Cup?

1. Sather shuts up and lets Renney and Schoenfeld totally run the show.
2. We do not re-sign Shany. We get rid of Straka and Malik and Mara.

Shanny and Straks will retire. But if Straks wants to stay for less money resign him b/c he isn't that bad and he helps Jagr who will still be there. If Mara will stay for less money re-sign him as well on a 1 yr or 2 yr contract as he still has value.


If we have lines similar to this next season, we can win the Cup:
Avery - Gomez - Jagr

Gomez and Jagr play different styles. THIS WILL NEVER WORK. Jagr himself said it. Avery should never be on a first line.


Prucha - Drury - Callahan

This line can't score this year what makes you think they can score next year. We really won't put up more than 1 goal per game if this is our second line.


Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov

I'm not sold on Dawes. I'm not sure that either of the two Russians will be ready for the NHL by next year. Chery might need a little time to adapt. Ani has never played wing.


Hollweg - Betts - Hossa

Another line w/ no scoring and not even a person who can fight. Excellent.


Tyutin - Girardi
Staal - Rozsival
Sanguinetti -Strudwick/FA

Don't know if Sangs will be ready yet. What happened to Baranka and Sauer and Liffiton. They will probably be more ready.


Notes:
Orr - will be the 13th forward in case we need toughness...I just dont think he should play too much
Defense - We could use a good free agent to play with Sanguinetti on the 3rd pair. Strudwick wont cut it.

So basically without Malik, Mara, Straka, Shany, our really only old guy would be Jagr and he still has some life left in him. I trully feel that 2nd line, which is playing well now, can play even better with more ice time. I think Callahan can easily score 20 goals with more ice time, so can Prucha. Drury can get better too. The 3rd line would be excellent with Anisimov or Cherepanov in the mix.

Excellent so now we will have the smallest, weakest team in Hockey. A bunch of midgets running around who still can't score. If this is the team for next year it will be a very very very long season. But we should end up getting Tavares w/ the #1 pick. So i guess it won't be too bad in the end.

Dubi is the only center that has shown he can play w/ Jagr. Gomez would be the worst choice. It failed the first time it will fail again. Also on no team should Avery be on the 1st line. He's lucky to be on our second line. Ideally he is a third line player.


Shanny and Straks will retire. But if Straks wants to stay for less money resign him b/c he isn't that bad and he helps Jagr who will still be there. If Mara will stay for less money re-sign him as well on a 1 yr or 2 yr contract as he still has value.



Gomez and Jagr play different styles. THIS WILL NEVER WORK. Jagr himself said it. Avery should never be on a first line.



This line can't score this year what makes you think they can score next year. We really won't put up more than 1 goal per game if this is our second line.



I'm not sold on Dawes. I'm not sure that either of the two Russians will be ready for the NHL by next year. Chery might need a little time to adapt. Ani has never played wing.



Another line w/ no scoring and not even a person who can fight. Excellent.


Don't know if Sangs will be ready yet. What happened to Baranka and Sauer and Liffiton. They will probably be more ready.



Excellent so now we will have the smallest, weakest team in Hockey. A bunch of midgets running around who still can't score. If this is the team for next year it will be a very very very long season. But we should end up getting Tavares w/ the #1 pick. So i guess it won't be too bad in the end.

I disagree with you on a lot of points, so let me try to summarize:

1. Avery - he is NOT a 3rd liner and that is the mistake that LA made in their thinking when they traded him. Avery is a very good 2nd liner who can play on the 1st line if need be. He will put up 50-60 points when healthy.

2. Gomez vs. Dubinsky - Gomez CAN play with Jagr...thats not the issue. The issue is that for them to play well together, you need the 3rd player on that line to be someone who can be tough and dig the puck out and go in the corners. So lets say Gomez,Jagr,Hossa or Gomez,Jagr,Straka will NOT work, and thats why Gomez and Jagr hasnt worked yet. Put Avery or someone like Avery on with Gomez and Jagr and then you have something!
Dubinsky is a great hard-working player BUT he does not have the necessary passing skills to consistently connect with Jagr...Gomez does. Even Drury is a better option than Dubinsky.

3. Straka , Mara- I would not keep either even for a million each since they are just blocking our youth from playing.

4. Prucha - Drury - Callahan - not sure which game you were watching last night but this was our BEST line by far. Sure, Tyutin and Girardi scored, but both goals were off plays by this line. Drury ended up with 2 assists. Callahan and Prucha played hard and could have ended up with some points too...eventually they will. This line needs more minutes, thats all.

5. Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov
This is not meant to be a top line. They will score enough for a 3rd line. Cherepanov is probably not ready, but Anisimov should be. Dawes is a pure goal-scorer, he wont do much else, but he will score.

6. Hollweg - Betts - Hossa
Again, NOT a scoring line, but a 4th line meant to check.

7. Baranka,Saur, Liffiton - agreed, any of them over Strudwick. Do you honestly think that Sather would be ok with 2 rookies on one pairing though? i mean one of those 3 and Sanguinetti...sounds great, but Sather would not allow it, he's an idiot.

In general, I feel you are too pessimistic about what these lines can do...so is Sather. With that kind of pessimism, we will have Shany playing for us for another 10 years:)

I disagree with you on a lot of points, so let me try to summarize:

1. Avery - he is NOT a 3rd liner and that is the mistake that LA made in their thinking when they traded him. Avery is a very good 2nd liner who can play on the 1st line if need be. He will put up 50-60 points when healthy.

50-60 points in a year is HORRIBLE for a 1st liner. A first line player should have 80 plus.

2. Gomez vs. Dubinsky - Gomez CAN play with Jagr...thats not the issue. The issue is that for them to play well together, you need the 3rd player on that line to be someone who can be tough and dig the puck out and go in the corners. So lets say Gomez,Jagr,Hossa or Gomez,Jagr,Straka will NOT work, and thats why Gomez and Jagr hasnt worked yet. Put Avery or someone like Avery on with Gomez and Jagr and then you have something!
Dubinsky is a great hard-working player BUT he does not have the necessary passing skills to consistently connect with Jagr...Gomez does. Even Drury is a better option than Dubinsky.

Jagr already said he doesn't mesh w/ gomez in an interview a week or so ago. They looked awful together earlier in the season.

3. Straka , Mara- I would not keep either even for a million each since they are just blocking our youth from playing. Straka will keep Jagr happy. A happy Jagr= a good Jagr. Mara hasn't played badly at all this year.

4. Prucha - Drury - Callahan - not sure which game you were watching last night but this was our BEST line by far. Sure, Tyutin and Girardi scored, but both goals were off plays by this line. Drury ended up with 2 assists. Callahan and Prucha played hard and could have ended up with some points too...eventually they will. This line needs more minutes, thats all.

Obviously you didn't watch the game. First off both goals were were on the PP. Second off this isn't a line in on the PP. The line is Gomez, Drury, Shanny Girardi, Tyutin. That's the line that scored both goals. Prucha is on Jagrs PP line while Cally doesn't play the PP.

Thirdly (if thats even a word) this line hasn't produced jack yet, and they won't b/c there is no size on this line. they get pushed around way to easily. Also there is no Playmaker on this line. Drury isn't a playmaker he is a finisher.

5. Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov
This is not meant to be a top line. They will score enough for a 3rd line. Cherepanov is probably not ready, but Anisimov should be. Dawes is a pure goal-scorer, he wont do much else, but he will score.

How do you know that Ani or Chery are ready? Ani has never played a wing. There is also absolutely no defensive responsibility on this line. They will be a minus 50 by the end of the year.

6. Hollweg - Betts - Hossa
Again, NOT a scoring line, but a 4th line meant to check. Ok. Replace Hollweg w/ Orr b/c can fight and stand up for players and doesn't take dumb penalties like hollywood.

7. Baranka,Saur, Liffiton - agreed, any of them over Strudwick. Do you honestly think that Sather would be ok with 2 rookies on one pairing though? i mean one of those 3 and Sanguinetti...sounds great, but Sather would not allow it, he's an idiot. How do you know Sangs will be ready? Offensively maybe but he might not be ready defensively (or strong enough). That's why I think you keep Mara for a year. And let Baranka take the other place. You know there will be injuries and time to call up Sangs.

In general, I feel you are too pessimistic about what these lines can do...so is Sather. With that kind of pessimism, we will have Shany playing for us for another 10 years:)
No Shanny should (hopefully) retire. If you read other posts I have made it shows that I cant stand him being on this team. And im not being pessimistic i am being realistic.

I have to question the coaching when a team gets stomped one night and then shows up the next game only to play even worse.

I am still happy!

We lost a game - 2nd in a row. 16 shots on net - bad night at the office.

We'll snap out of it.

Having said that the defensive coverage was atrocious.

50-60 points in a year is HORRIBLE for a 1st liner. A first line player should have 80 plus.



Jagr already said he doesn't mesh w/ gomez in an interview a week or so ago. They looked awful together earlier in the season.

Straka will keep Jagr happy. A happy Jagr= a good Jagr. Mara hasn't played badly at all this year.



Obviously you didn't watch the game. First off both goals were were on the PP. Second off this isn't a line in on the PP. The line is Gomez, Drury, Shanny Girardi, Tyutin. That's the line that scored both goals. Prucha is on Jagrs PP line while Cally doesn't play the PP.

Thirdly (if thats even a word) this line hasn't produced jack yet, and they won't b/c there is no size on this line. they get pushed around way to easily. Also there is no Playmaker on this line. Drury isn't a playmaker he is a finisher.



How do you know that Ani or Chery are ready? Ani has never played a wing. There is also absolutely no defensive responsibility on this line. They will be a minus 50 by the end of the year.

Ok. Replace Hollweg w/ Orr b/c can fight and stand up for players and doesn't take dumb penalties like hollywood.

How do you know Sangs will be ready? Offensively maybe but he might not be ready defensively (or strong enough). That's why I think you keep Mara for a year. And let Baranka take the other place. You know there will be injuries and time to call up Sangs.


No Shanny should (hopefully) retire. If you read other posts I have made it shows that I cant stand him being on this team. And im not being pessimistic i am being realistic.


Geez, you really do sound like Sather with this whole a happy Jagr is a good Jagr bs! A true leader should be able to and be willing to play with ANY player. Jagr will always be considered a diva until he is willing to play with anyone and not sulk like a little baby!

Jagr - can play with Gomez and he can play with Drury...its just a matter of finding the right 3rd guy for that line.

Avery - 60 points and a ton of pims and his ability to create space is what is needed on that 1st line. Not all 1st lines are stacked with offensive dynamos. We sucked last night because Avery wasnt playing, that was part of it.

Drury line - I know the PP units. Gomez has 2 assists, yes. Still , Drury and Callahan show good chemistry and Prucha is decent on that line. The new NHL is NOT about size, its more about skill. Also, Callahan is tough as nails and Drury does not back down either.

Its impossible to know which young players willl be ready. It is possible to know for a fact that Mara and Malik suck NOW. Hows that for u?:biglaugh: So I'd rather see a young guy who is half ready play...or a free agent who is more solid than Mara and Malik in his own zone.

Jagr has his lowest output per game in years. Dubi's not lighting the world on fire. I'm not sure why you would say he's 'worked', and why he's worked over the others. Gomez played a few games. Drury played a couple games. Dubi's played the rest and the results have left a lot to be desired, while Gomez found scoring elsewhere. I don't think any centerman has worked with Jagr, and that includes Dubi, and I can't sit here and tell you had Gomez played with Jagr from day 1, uninterrupted, that the results would be better or worse (although they really cannot be worse).

Jagr has his lowest output per game in years. Dubi's not lighting the world on fire. I'm not sure why you would say he's 'worked', and why he's worked over the others. Gomez played a few games. Drury played a couple games. Dubi's played the rest and the results have left a lot to be desired, while Gomez found scoring elsewhere. I don't think any centerman has worked with Jagr, and that includes Dubi, and I can't sit here and tell you had Gomez played with Jagr from day 1, uninterrupted, that the results would be better or worse (although they really cannot be worse).


All VERY true. I think that everyone, including the coaching staff, have focused too much on finding the right centerman for Jagr. The fix can be more about finding the right 2nd winger on the line with Jagr. I noticed whenever Jagr and Avery are on the ice together, they CLICK. Avery makes space for Jagr by going to the net...Jagr shoots, Avery gets rebounds. Avery is also a very underrated passer and tends to find Jagr easily.

So, no one wants to try Avery with Jagr and Gomez or Drury...but that may work. Try it for a few weeks and see what happens...like Fletch said, cant be worse than Dubinsky and Jagr now.

Geez, you really do sound like Sather with this whole a happy Jagr is a good Jagr bs! A true leader should be able to and be willing to play with ANY player. Jagr will always be considered a diva until he is willing to play with anyone and not sulk like a little baby!

Jagr - can play with Gomez and he can play with Drury...its just a matter of finding the right 3rd guy for that line.

You're missing a key part right here. Jagr has already publicly stated that there is no chemistry between him and Gomez. That they both like to hold on to the puck and try to make a play and that they will not be good linemates.

Avery - 60 points and a ton of pims and his ability to create space is what is needed on that 1st line. Not all 1st lines are stacked with offensive dynamos. We sucked last night because Avery wasnt playing, that was part of it.

And what was the reason we played our two best games of the year w/o Avery. That being the wins over Ottawa and NYI. Just curious. It isnt Avery alone that makes or breaks this team. He is not a first line player.

Drury line - I know the PP units. Gomez has 2 assists, yes. Still , Drury and Callahan show good chemistry and Prucha is decent on that line. The new NHL is NOT about size, its more about skill. Also, Callahan is tough as nails and Drury does not back down either. You obviously didn't know the PP lines because you thought Cally and Prucha were on for the goals. They weren't though. It's kinda hard to argue about some size when Prucha is constantly knocked down b/c he is so diminutive. Plus you never tried answer the question of who the playmaker is. You have three finishers but no passer or playmaker. Also you haven't answered why they weren't scoring at all this year. They are our third line this year and not scoring. They are playing against other teams' third lines and not scoring. You want them to go against 2nd and first lines and not score as well. Fine. In all actuality I don't think Prucha will even be on the team next year. I think he will be traded beforehand.

Its impossible to know which young players willl be ready. It is possible to know for a fact that Mara and Malik suck NOW. Hows that for u?:biglaugh: So I'd rather see a young guy who is half ready play...or a free agent who is more solid than Mara and Malik in his own zone. Correct about knowing who will be ready. but AA has yet to light up the AHL (and he's not a winger), and Chery hasn't set foot on NA land. Sangs hasn't played against NHLers yet. What ever happened to true wingers that we have Bourret, Moore, Korps. they might all be more ready. But I still woulnd't want to go for a team that is almost all under 25. You need some vets there to teach. And what has Mara done this year that has been so bad?

What about Girardi who for the last two weeks has been awful?

Where is a PF on this team that will drive to the net or stand in front of the net consistently?

The team is just too small. You don't need prucha and dawes on the team they are basically the same player. In fact i wish we would trade them both b/c they are both overatted and too small. We have better prospects, and neither is good defensively, or can PK.

Do you guys think it would be crazy to try these lines???

Straka - Anisimov - Jagr
Drury - Gomez - Shanahan
Prucha - Dubinsky - Callahan
HBO

Do you guys think it would be crazy to try these lines???

Straka - Anisimov - Jagr
Drury - Gomez - Shanahan
Prucha - Dubinsky - Callahan
HBO

yes

ani is not there yet i say try this

shanny - gomez - jagr
straka - drury - callahan
dawes - dubi - prucha
hossa - blair - orr

You're missing a key part right here. Jagr has already publicly stated that there is no chemistry between him and Gomez. That they both like to hold on to the puck and try to make a play and that they will not be good linemates.



And what was the reason we played our two best games of the year w/o Avery. That being the wins over Ottawa and NYI. Just curious. It isnt Avery alone that makes or breaks this team. He is not a first line player.

You obviously didn't know the PP lines because you thought Cally and Prucha were on for the goals. They weren't though. It's kinda hard to argue about some size when Prucha is constantly knocked down b/c he is so diminutive. Plus you never tried answer the question of who the playmaker is. You have three finishers but no passer or playmaker. Also you haven't answered why they weren't scoring at all this year. They are our third line this year and not scoring. They are playing against other teams' third lines and not scoring. You want them to go against 2nd and first lines and not score as well. Fine. In all actuality I don't think Prucha will even be on the team next year. I think he will be traded beforehand.

Correct about knowing who will be ready. but AA has yet to light up the AHL (and he's not a winger), and Chery hasn't set foot on NA land. Sangs hasn't played against NHLers yet. What ever happened to true wingers that we have Bourret, Moore, Korps. they might all be more ready. But I still woulnd't want to go for a team that is almost all under 25. You need some vets there to teach. And what has Mara done this year that has been so bad?

What about Girardi who for the last two weeks has been awful?

Where is a PF on this team that will drive to the net or stand in front of the net consistently?

The team is just too small. You don't need prucha and dawes on the team they are basically the same player. In fact i wish we would trade them both b/c they are both overatted and too small. We have better prospects, and neither is good defensively, or can PK.


1. Jagr - I again dont give a rats ass who he likes to play with. The whole reason why we have Straka for so long is because Jagr likes him. So when Straka is 45, we should keep him since Jagr likes him???? Jagr can learn to play with others, if he stops being a prima donna.

2. Avery - Plenty of teams have 2 stars and then a gritty guy on their first lines. Do you think that Sundin,Poni, and Antropov is an all-star line? Antropov and Sundin are great, but Poni is great to play the boards really. That is what Avery does, and he does it VERY well and still puts up some decent numbers.

3. PP lines - I did know the PP lines. My point was not about the PP lines clicking. My point was that a lot of the offense that we generated last night was from the Prucha-Drury-Callahan line. Drury was the only one of the 3 to get points, but Callahan and Prucha looked good too. The other lines did NOTHING in comparison.

4. Girardi - yes, he is horrible, after all, a dman who plays amazing for 95% of the games cannot be allowed to have a few bad games right? come on! this is how Sather thinks EXACTLY, if a young guy has a few bad games, he SUCKS, right?

5. Power Forwards - here they are:
Dubinsky
Anisimov
Jessiman

If you get rid of old farts like Shany and Straka, those guys might actually get to play!

Jagr has his lowest output per game in years. Dubi's not lighting the world on fire. I'm not sure why you would say he's 'worked', and why he's worked over the others. Gomez played a few games. Drury played a couple games. Dubi's played the rest and the results have left a lot to be desired, while Gomez found scoring elsewhere. I don't think any centerman has worked with Jagr, and that includes Dubi, and I can't sit here and tell you had Gomez played with Jagr from day 1, uninterrupted, that the results would be better or worse (although they really cannot be worse).

But why would Jagr state that he likes playing w/ Dubi, and doesn't w/ Gomez. During the interview he said something to the effect that him and Drury just didn't have enough time together.

So yeah i would try Drury, but do you really want a third line of Pruchs-Dubi-Cally. That's horrible defensively, and they still won't score probably. There needs to be some trades.

Sather: Hello Toronto? We want Sundin. Take three prospects (except staal, chery) and a 2nd rounder. oh yeah and Malik. I know, I know he isn't that good. But we need to get some salary space for Sundin. Still no. hmm.... I'll buy you a new bike as well. Ok great deal.

But why would Jagr state that he likes playing w/ Dubi, and doesn't w/ Gomez. During the interview he said something to the effect that him and Drury just didn't have enough time together.

So yeah i would try Drury, but do you really want a third line of Pruchs-Dubi-Cally. That's horrible defensively, and they still won't score probably. There needs to be some trades.

Sather: Hello Toronto? We want Sundin. Take three prospects (except staal, chery) and a 2nd rounder. oh yeah and Malik. I know, I know he isn't that good. But we need to get some salary space for Sundin. Still no. hmm.... I'll buy you a new bike as well. Ok great deal.

I know what Jagr said about Dubi. Just because Jagr likes something, does not mean that is what is BEST for the team...it is just best for Jagr. For instance, him playing with Dubinsky is NOT best for the team since although they like each other, they produce VERY little offense. Our team, for all its big names, is not scoring and hasnt all season. So clearly, Dubi and Jagr won't cut it. Sure, try Jagr with Drury...or again u can try Avery-Gomez-Jagr as well. They are many options that we have NOT tried yet.

Why do u feel that Prucha, Dubi and Cally are bad on D? I think all 3 work hard to get back. Prucha is a bit slow, but still back checks. Dubi and Cally are solid defensively.

shanny - gomez - jagr
straka - drury - callahan
dawes - dubi - prucha
hossa - blair - orr

IDK about Jags w/ those 2... They both have proved they aren't the best mix (Gomez even strength and Shanny on the PP)...

You like Hollweg out there more than Orr?

On a tangent... Your in the Colorado area... What is up with JM Liles? I read that he's on the trading block! Is that true?

I always loved his offensive prowess (especially QBing the PP) and I think all he needs is a change of scenery...

Maybe it's time for EXTREME BALANCED LINEUP. No more catering to Jagr's needs when he's not stepping up and leading by example.

Callahan Drury Jagr
Shanahan Gomez Straka
Prucha Dubinsky Avery
Hossa Betts Orr

or

Drury Gomez Jagr
Shanahan Straka Avery
Callahan Dubinsky Hossa
Prucha Betts Orr

or

Avery Drury Jagr
Shanahan Gomez Straka
Callahan Dubinsky Hossa
Prucha Betts Orr

1. Jagr - I again dont give a rats ass who he likes to play with. The whole reason why we have Straka for so long is because Jagr likes him. So when Straka is 45, we should keep him since Jagr likes him???? Jagr can learn to play with others, if he stops being a prima donna.
Jagr is only on the team for 1 more season (maybe). Straks had 70 pts in 77 games last year. That's not that bad at all. It's actually more than Avery in any of his seasons. And I said for 1 more year. It won't kill us.

2. Avery - Plenty of teams have 2 stars and then a gritty guy on their first lines. Do you think that Sundin,Poni, and Antropov is an all-star line? Antropov and Sundin are great, but Poni is great to play the boards really. That is what Avery does, and he does it VERY well and still puts up some decent numbers. All three of them are big and gritty. Poni also as 16 points in 24 games and doesn't take that many penalties. He is a bruising type player. Avery takes many penalties, and isn't a bruiser. And even though he missed many games he is still second on the team on PIM. He's in the box way too much for 1st line action.

3. PP lines - I did know the PP lines. My point was not about the PP lines clicking. My point was that a lot of the offense that we generated last night was from the Prucha-Drury-Callahan line. Drury was the only one of the 3 to get points, but Callahan and Prucha looked good too. The other lines did NOTHING in comparison. Again how many goals did they score as a line? 0. How many have they been scoring? not much at all. In fact as a Line I cant recall them having a goal yet as a line. It's not that promising. Again who is their playmaker? They are all finishers but none of them are playmakers.


4. Girardi - yes, he is horrible, after all, a dman who plays amazing for 95% of the games cannot be allowed to have a few bad games right? come on! this is how Sather thinks EXACTLY, if a young guy has a few bad games, he SUCKS, right? Never said he sucks. Just said he was sucking just as bad as Malik right now. But you were putting all the blame on mara and malik. Just making a point that they aren't the only ones to blame for bad play right now. By the way you still didn't answer the question of What did Mara do that is so horrble.


5. Power Forwards - here they are:
Dubinsky
Anisimov
Jessiman

If you get rid of old farts like Shany and Straka, those guys might actually get to play!

Jessiman will never see the light of day in the NHL. Anisimov I am not sure if he will be a PF. Does anybody else know if he can be come one?

Dubinksy ok. But where are our power wingers. Prucha gets laid out, dawes isn't much better, cally also gets flattened. Don't know what Chery will do. Look at Ottawa, and Anaheim, Colorado, they all have size to their team. We don't.

Also not arguing about Shanny. I've stated numerous times that I don't want him on this team.

We should get Tucker or Neil, so they can play when avery hurts him self every other game.

Tucker for Prucha and Dawes.... We have ways of making him waive his NTC...jj lol

I know what Jagr said about Dubi. Just because Jagr likes something, does not mean that is what is BEST for the team...it is just best for Jagr. For instance, him playing with Dubinsky is NOT best for the team since although they like each other, they produce VERY little offense. Our team, for all its big names, is not scoring and hasnt all season. So clearly, Dubi and Jagr won't cut it. Sure, try Jagr with Drury...or again u can try Avery-Gomez-Jagr as well. They are many options that we have NOT tried yet.

Why do u feel that Prucha, Dubi and Cally are bad on D? I think all 3 work hard to get back. Prucha is a bit slow, but still back checks. Dubi and Cally are solid defensively.

wait a minute... Separating them is what's best for the team. Jagr stated his style of play and Gomez' doesn't mesh well. THEY HAVE NO CHEMISTRY!!!!! What is so complicated about this. They both enjoy carrying the puck and controlling the play. They are both playmakers. This line will not have many shots. Why are you trying to fit square peg in a round hole?

Listen Cally isn't that bad on D, Dubi is slowly getting better and becoming more responsible, but prucha isnt.

Tucker for Prucha and Dawes.... We have ways of making him waive his NTC...jj lol

You've got to be out of your mind. Not giving Prucha OR Dawes for Tucker, let alone both. Tucker is washed the **** up, and he and Avery hate each other. Tucker benefits us more by being on Toronto.

Maybe Gaustad and a late pick for Prucha or Dawes?

You've got to be out of your mind. Not giving Prucha OR Dawes for Tucker, let alone both. Tucker is washed the **** up, and he and Avery hate each other. Tucker benefits us more by being on Toronto.

Maybe Gaustad and a late pick for Prucha or Dawes?

I would much rather package those assets for a scorer, not a 3rd or 4th liner that we have an abundance of in the system...

You've got to be out of your mind. Not giving Prucha OR Dawes for Tucker, let alone both. Tucker is washed the **** up, and he and Avery hate each other. Tucker benefits us more by being on Toronto.

Maybe Gaustad and a late pick for Prucha or Dawes?

Prucha, Korpi and a 2nd for Antropov. I would kill for Antropov on this team.

Jagr is only on the team for 1 more season (maybe). Straks had 70 pts in 77 games last year. That's not that bad at all. It's actually more than Avery in any of his seasons. And I said for 1 more year. It won't kill us.

All three of them are big and gritty. Poni also as 16 points in 24 games and doesn't take that many penalties. He is a bruising type player. Avery takes many penalties, and isn't a bruiser. And even though he missed many games he is still second on the team on PIM. He's in the box way too much for 1st line action.

Again how many goals did they score as a line? 0. How many have they been scoring? not much at all. In fact as a Line I cant recall them having a goal yet as a line. It's not that promising. Again who is their playmaker? They are all finishers but none of them are playmakers.


Never said he sucks. Just said he was sucking just as bad as Malik right now. But you were putting all the blame on mara and malik. Just making a point that they aren't the only ones to blame for bad play right now. By the way you still didn't answer the question of What did Mara do that is so horrble.



Jessiman will never see the light of day in the NHL. Anisimov I am not sure if he will be a PF. Does anybody else know if he can be come one?

Dubinksy ok. But where are our power wingers. Prucha gets laid out, dawes isn't much better, cally also gets flattened. Don't know what Chery will do. Look at Ottawa, and Anaheim, Colorado, they all have size to their team. We don't.

Also not arguing about Shanny. I've stated numerous times that I don't want him on this team.

Geez, I really DO feel like i'm talking to Sather here. Ok, I'll try again:

1. Poni vs. Avery - Avery has 9 points in 14 games...about the same as Poni having 16 in 24, whats your point? Avery takes more penalties because unlike Poni, Avery actually fights...which more than makes up for their difference in size. The bottom line is that neither are what you would call a pure scoring 1st liner who puts up 70-80 points, neither will ever do that. Both are there to make the 1st line gel, and they do a good job of that. Its not all about goals and points you know.

2. Prucha-Drury-Callahan - Actually, Drury is a very good passer, he is just trying too hard to score at times. When he wants to , he can make some great passes and he is starting to do so (2 assists last night). As for this line not getting a ton of points, they need more time together AND much more ice time.

3. Girardi - Comparing Malik to Girardi is like comparing Ulanov to Foote, its not even close. The difference between Girardi and Malik is that Girardi may have a few bad games at times whereas Malik sucks every game, just some games he gets away with it and escapes without a minus. The difference is consistency, consistent solid play that only Girardi will give you, not Malik.

4. Power Forwards - This is not the NHL of the 90s where you needed a ton of Power Forwards to win. Even Philly has figured that out now and no longer is stacked with huge power forwards...their #1 line is Briere(tiny) and Gagne(ok size, not physical) with Knuble. The Rangers have enough. Jessiman can become a solid 3rd liner...Anisimov can too. There are a few more.

Prucha, Korpi and a 2nd for Antropov. I would kill for Antropov on this team.

I think it would take more than that. His stock is really high right now, he's having a career year so far.

I think it would take more than that. His stock is really high right now, he's having a career year so far.

Not to mention the Leafs have waited FOREVER for him to develop...

I know what Jagr said about Dubi. Just because Jagr likes something, does not mean that is what is BEST for the team...it is just best for Jagr. For instance, him playing with Dubinsky is NOT best for the team since although they like each other, they produce VERY little offense. Our team, for all its big names, is not scoring and hasnt all season. So clearly, Dubi and Jagr won't cut it. Sure, try Jagr with Drury...or again u can try Avery-Gomez-Jagr as well. They are many options that we have NOT tried yet.

Why do u feel that Prucha, Dubi and Cally are bad on D? I think all 3 work hard to get back. Prucha is a bit slow, but still back checks. Dubi and Cally are solid defensively.

Not sure where you've been for the last 7 years, but there's a significant difference in production from Jagr when he's happy and comfortable to when he's not.

That was the whole thing when the Rangers acquired him so many years ago. Which Jaromir Jagr were the Rangers going to get, the first year everything on offence flowed through him and the added incentive of every body and their mothers predicting the Rangers a dead last finish got him motivated. Then last year, I don't care what anyone says, he came back to early and it showed. He never regained the strength he had the year before and struggled through the first 3/4's of last season.

The team goes out and allows his caddy to walk to Washington, Straka gets hurt early and more and more the offence is less and less reliant on him.

A happy comfortable Jagr gets you 90+ points and stretches of pure dominance
An un-happy Jagr gets you a point a game average whith stretches of invisablness

To sit there and state that we need not worry about his state of mind is totally missing the boat on Jagr the person and player.

If you think that you can just stick him anywhere and because he's the captain and makes a ton of dough that he should just shut up and play leads me to believe you know nothing about this mans past lives in Pitt and Washington.

Go to either of their boards and ask them what happens to their teams when Jagr isn't happy or comfortable.

http://www.popular.com.sg/images/product/book/57740.jpg

Prucha, Korpi and a 2nd for Antropov. I would kill for Antropov on this team.

Pass.

This could be his breakout year, it could also be his anomoly season where the world align just right for him.

Either way, there's nothing in his past that would lead me to believe he can sustain this pace of both production and health.

Nothing more disrupting than a guy that averages 61 games played over the last 4 full seasons played in the NHL.

1. Poni vs. Avery - Avery has 9 points in 14 games...about the same as Poni having 16 in 24, whats your point? Avery takes more penalties because unlike Poni, Avery actually fights...which more than makes up for their difference in size. The bottom line is that neither are what you would call a pure scoring 1st liner who puts up 70-80 points, neither will ever do that. Both are there to make the 1st line gel, and they do a good job of that. Its not all about goals and points you know.
But that's his problem. 1st liners shouldn't constantly be getting in fights. That's 5 min where you have to find another winger to go on the first line, or not use your first line. This is not ideal, or good for chemistry.

2. Prucha-Drury-Callahan - Actually, Drury is a very good passer, he is just trying too hard to score at times. When he wants to , he can make some great passes and he is starting to do so (2 assists last night). As for this line not getting a ton of points, they need more time together AND much more ice time. They should get more ice time, I agree w/ you there. But Drury is known for his scoring not his passing. There is no true playmaker on this line and that is the problem I believe. Also Prucha is overatted on this board, and I'm not sure about what Callahan is all about yet I'll give him till the end of the year before I pass judgements.

3. Girardi - Comparing Malik to Girardi is like comparing Ulanov to Foote, its not even close. The difference between Girardi and Malik is that Girardi may have a few bad games at times whereas Malik sucks every game, just some games he gets away with it and escapes without a minus. The difference is consistency, consistent solid play that only Girardi will give you, not Malik. Obviously Girardi is better than Malik. But Malik gets less credit than he deserves, he isn't as bad as some people make him out to be.

4. Power Forwards - This is not the NHL of the 90s where you needed a ton of Power Forwards to win. Even Philly has figured that out now and no longer is stacked with huge power forwards...their #1 line is Briere(tiny) and Gagne(ok size, not physical) with Knuble. The Rangers have enough. Jessiman can become a solid 3rd liner...Anisimov can too. There are a few more. Jessiman has done nothing so far that shows he can keep up play w/ the NHL.

As for Philly they have 11 forwards that are 6 ft or taller. Five of which are 6'2" or taller. Their defense by the way is all over 6'1" except Timonen who is 5'10".
What was your point about size again?

I think it would take more than that. His stock is really high right now, he's having a career year so far.

Yeah I know but I really want him.

i'm not making malik out worse than he is, he really is behind 5 other defenseman...so saying that our #6 d man makes way to much money and gets way to much playing time.

When your team is all about Sean Avery for winning, I think you have a problem somewhere...

(I mean, he's no MVP. )We all know he's that much important to this Ranger team... But, seeing how the Rangers perform without him.. Idk, its just too weird.

i'm not making malik out worse than he is, he really is behind 5 other defenseman...so saying that our #6 d man makes way to much money and gets way to much playing time.

i'll give you that but you can't stick him anywhere else. He does do positivie things though. He just has no confidence now b/c of some classless fans who boooo him mercilessaly every game when he is supposed to be at home.

Same thing w/ Poti two years ago, (funny b/c people liked Malik than) new whipping boy, but he had a solid season last year w/ the isles.

anyway gotta go catch a train... Let's Go Rangers.

i'll give you that but you can't stick him anywhere else. He does do positivie things though. He just has no confidence now b/c of some classless fans who boooo him mercilessaly every game when he is supposed to be at home.

Same thing w/ Poti two years ago, (funny b/c people liked Malik than) new whipping boy, but he had a solid season last year w/ the isles.

anyway gotta go catch a train... Let's Go Rangers.

sorry but unless he ends up scoring 2 a game for a bit he won't get the boo birds to stop in ny. and you can put him on a plane or train to another team, and possibly cut some cap space depending on who they think can do the job. maybe baranka so another draft pick, maybe throw in prucha and get a better d man.

but either way, he has played himself out of new york

Does anyone think about what they type before they type it? The only explanation for it is a lot of alcohol.

When your team is all about Sean Avery for winning, I think you have a problem somewhere...

(I mean, he's no MVP. )We all know he's that much important to this Ranger team... But, seeing how the Rangers perform without him.. Idk, its just too weird.


agreed, especially with your signature.

sorry but unless he ends up scoring 2 a game for a bit he won't get the boo birds to stop in ny. and you can put him on a plane or train to another team, and possibly cut some cap space depending on who they think can do the job. maybe baranka so another draft pick, maybe throw in prucha and get a better d man.

but either way, he has played himself out of new york

I don't think he played himself out of New York. I think New York Fans needed a scapegoat once Poti left and found one. Now he's being forced out.

Watch out Rosy, next year it could be you. You aren't homegrown, and Mara and Malik probably will be gone.. Fans need another scapegoat and punchingbag. Or could it be Tyutin who hasn't fullfilled his potential. Hasn't lived up to the tag of next Leetch. Hmm.... definately interesting who fans will pick on next year on defense.

I don't think he played himself out of New York. I think New York Fans needed a scapegoat once Poti left and found one. Now he's being forced out.

Watch out Rosy, next year it could be you. You aren't homegrown, and Mara and Malik probably will be gone.. Fans need another scapegoat and punchingbag. Or could it be Tyutin who hasn't fullfilled his potential. Hasn't lived up to the tag of next Leetch. Hmm.... definately interesting who fans will pick on next year on defense.

No, I think its more the fact that Malik sucks. And Tyutin is well on his way toward fulfilling his potential. He's been fine. Anyone who was expecting 'the next leetch" out of him in the first place had ridiculous expectations.

No, I think its more the fact that Malik sucks. And Tyutin is well on his way toward fulfilling his potential. He's been fine. Anyone who was expecting 'the next leetch" out of him in the first place had ridiculous expectations.
that was the talk when he came up... that he was being groomed to replace Leetch. He is playing well but he has not played up to his full potential as of late.

Anyway just stating that there is no whipping boy next year. Wonder who it will be.

Lets not kid ourselves about Lord Stanley with this group.

There is a team in the Motor City whose "B" game is better than the Rangers "A" game.

Watch this team game in and game out and I keep catching myself saying "Wow!. Nice Play or Holy #$@! what a pass.

Put the Rangers in a seven game series right now against the Wings and it would be brutal. Just brutal.

Put the Rangers in a seven game series right now against the Wings and it would be brutal. Just brutal.
Agreed ... assuming the Rangers could get that far.

I'll say again, Sather must decide if he seriously wishes to pursue the Cup this season. If he does, he MUST do something to mollify Jagr and bring back #68's "A" game. Without that, the team is not winning a Cup. They might get all the way to the finals if everyone else turns it on and Shanahan regains his form, but without Jagr at his best, they're not winning it all. Inclusive is that Renney must give Jagr free rein, including allowing Jagr to dictate how the game will be played when he is on the ice.

If Sather is not willing to do that which allows his best, most critical skater to play his best, what's the point? More money for the MSG coffers?

Agreed ... assuming the Rangers could get that far.

I'll say again, Sather must decide if he seriously wishes to pursue the Cup this season. If he does, he MUST do something to mollify Jagr and bring back #68's "A" game. Without that, the team is not winning a Cup. They might get all the way to the finals if everyone else turns it on and Shanahan regains his form, but without Jagr at his best, they're not winning it all. Inclusive is that Renney must give Jagr free rein, including allowing Jagr to dictate how the game will be played when he is on the ice.

If Sather is not willing to do that which allows his best, most critical skater to play his best, what's the point? More money for the MSG coffers?

The good thing is...we have plenty of prospects to move, and some serviceable NHL talent.

I also don't completely agree that we are that far off from the better NHL teams. Only because of Henrik and our team D. I will take Henry over that 40+ year old tandem in DET. Anything can happen, and we are months away form that.

You can find scoring anywhere at the trade deadline...but we have the one thing everyone needs and that's a goalie who can steal games.

This team has no chemistry because the majority of forwards are seemingly playing out of place. The fact that not many go the net, or are too small to make an impact when they get there does not help things.

All it may take is one thought out trade to put everyone in their place and have things click ...we sort of need another Avery trade.

How many people would love an Antropov type after seeing him just glide through our defense and use his body as shield?

The good thing is...we have plenty of prospects to move, and some serviceable NHL talent.
I'm not inclined to move prospects, but the team will dictate this.

I also don't completely agree that we are that far off from the better NHL teams. Only because of Henrik and our team D.
IMO this defense is not championship caliber. Not even close.

I will take Henry over that 40+ year old tandem in DET.
So would I, but it's quite rare that a goalie wins a championship on its own. (Roy in '86 is the only instance I can name wherein the goalie effectively won a Cup by himself.)

Would I take Lundqvist over Osgood or Hasek? Yes. Would I take the entire rest of the Red Wings over the Rangers? Yes. And, barring a miracle, the best team is winning the championship.

Anything can happen
Not really. You have to go back to the '97 Red Wings to find a team that won a Cup that also didn't finish in the top-4 overall (and the Red Wings were 5th overall). In that decade span, only two teams that weren't top-3 won a Cup. (Wings '97 - Devils '00)

"Anything can happen" is comforting to fans and makes great material for the press, but champions play like champions all year long, and their regular season record reflects that. The Rangers' record 29 games in shows a team that's "good," nothing more. IMO something must change for the team to get beyond that. Continuing to say the team merely needs time to "gel" seems fruitless at this point.

I'm not inclined to move prospects, but the team will dictate this.


IMO this defense is not championship caliber. Not even close.


So would I, but it's quite rare that a goalie wins a championship on its own. (Roy in '86 is the only instance I can name wherein the goalie effectively won a Cup by himself.)

Would I take Lundqvist over Osgood or Hasek? Yes. Would I take the entire rest of the Red Wings over the Rangers? Yes. And, barring a miracle, the best team is winning the championship.


Not really. You have to go back to the '97 Red Wings to find a team that won a Cup that also didn't finish in the top-4 overall (and the Red Wings were 5th overall). In that decade span, only two teams that weren't top-3 won a Cup. (Wings '97 - Devils '00)

"Anything can happen" is comforting to fans and makes great material for the press, but champions play like champions all year long, and their regular season record reflects that. The Rangers' record 29 games in shows a team that's "good," nothing more. IMO something must change for the team to get beyond that. Continuing to say the team merely needs time to "gel" seems fruitless at this point.

I agree with you on most points, but I disagree about our defense not being "championship caliber." Can you tell me what teams have a championship caliber D? Because, I don't see many teams playing better defense than the Rangers have so far. I know a lot of it rests on Henrik, but he will be in net during the playoffs too, so if our defense (with Henrik) is good enough to have the league's fewest goals against, I think it's championship caliber or at least not far off. Just because we have a Strudwick or a Malik or a Pock as our 6th man doesn't mean we have a weak D squad. The Canes won the cup with Aaron Ward getting plenty of minutes, and we all saw what kind of defenseman he was. The Ducks won with Joe DiPenta and Sean O'Donnell. "Championship caliber defenders" doesn't really come to mind when thinking of these guys. They played as a team. And when we do that, with all the offensive talent we have, and Henrik in net, we will be a very tough team to beat. The season is still young and a lot of these players are still adjusting. Gomez, Drury of course, but also Staal and Dubinsky. Callahan just got back from an injury, Avery's been in and out of the lineup. Straka's only played 14 games. If this team is healthy and playing as a 5-man unit in all three zones come playoff time, there will be very few teams that can beat us in a 7 game series.

This team was never going to win a cup. Even when Jagr the Czechmates were at the top of their game, they disappeared in the post season. They have all dropped off each season since then and yet they are all heavily relied upon to carry this team. All of our big scorers are aging rapidly and are failing to carry the load in the clutch. Our young players aren't quite there to take over the job.

Our defensive corps has only improved by going younger, meaning the parts we swapped our were replaced by fresh yet better players. That just indicates how sorry the old players were but it also means we now have alot of learning and growing to do before this defense is Stanley Cup caliber.

We have upgraded over previous incarnations through free agency but the transition has not been seemless. The additions seem to be more for the future rather than the present. I don't know if it was designed that way but that is the path we are now on. In the coming years, Drury and Gomez will be the backbone for the tremendous potential within the system and as well for the future additions from the UFA market. Right now it looks like two separate teams trying to be another team.

The only department to steadily improve is in goaltending (read: Lundqvist). He's the reason our defensive growing pains have been minimized. He's the reason our aging scorers aren't a disaster (yet). Remove Lundqvist and you're on the verge of rebuild mode version 2.0. Jagr, Straka, Shanny, Mara, Malik and Roszival would be on the block and we would be looking at another 3 or 4 years of losing.

We are much more geared towards winning a cup in the next 5 years. Our defense will be tops in the league within that timeline and our young forwards will develop nicely. The young team will also translate into a lower cap which allows for the big name additions that will put us over the top.

This team was never going to win a cup. Even when Jagr the Czechmates were at the top of their game, they disappeared in the post season. They have all dropped off each season since then and yet they are all heavily relied upon to carry this team. All of our big scorers are aging rapidly and are failing to carry the load in the clutch. Our young players aren't quite there to take over the job.

Our defensive corps has only improved by going younger, meaning the parts we swapped our were replaced by fresh yet better players. That just indicates how sorry the old players were but it also means we now have alot of learning and growing to do before this defense is Stanley Cup caliber.

We have upgraded over previous incarnations through free agency but the transition has not been seemless. The additions seem to be more for the future rather than the present. I don't know if it was designed that way but that is the path we are now on. In the coming years, Drury and Gomez will be the backbone for the tremendous potential within the system and as well for the future additions from the UFA market. Right now it looks like two separate teams trying to be another team.

The only department to steadily improve is in goaltending (read: Lundqvist). He's the reason our defensive growing pains have been minimized. He's the reason our aging scorers aren't a disaster (yet). Remove Lundqvist and you're on the verge of rebuild mode version 2.0. Jagr, Straka, Shanny, Mara, Malik and Roszival would be on the block and we would be looking at another 3 or 4 years of losing.

We are much more geared towards winning a cup in the next 5 years. Our defense will be tops in the league within that timeline and our young forwards will develop nicely. The young team will also translate into a lower cap which allows for the big name additions that will put us over the top.

Today is just one of those funny days on HF...
Ok lets see:
Jaromir Jagr RW 10 5 6 11 6 2 0 0 0 12 48 10.4
Martin Straka C 10 2 8 10 0 1 0 0 0 2 15 13.3
Michal Rozsival D 10 3 4 7 6 2 0 1 1 10 18 16.7
Brendan Shanahan LW 10 5 2 7 -5 3 0 2 0 12 41 12.2
Fedor Tyutin D 10 0 5 5 -3 0 0 0 0 8 9 0.0
Sean Avery LW 10 1 4 5 -3 0 0 0 0 27 42 2.4
Marek Malik D 10 1 3 4 6 0 0 0 0 10 4 25.0


From last season. Czechs sure disappeared. So i think there is no need to comment more the bolded part.

With rest of your post i can generally agree with ;-)

Lets not kid ourselves about Lord Stanley with this group.

There is a team in the Motor City whose "B" game is better than the Rangers "A" game.

Watch this team game in and game out and I keep catching myself saying "Wow!. Nice Play or Holy #$@! what a pass.

Put the Rangers in a seven game series right now against the Wings and it would be brutal. Just brutal.

Surely the Red Wings are the best team in the league right now. But, luckily we're a long way from having to play the Wings in a 7 game series. They're not a definite to make the finals, and of course we aren't either. With that said, I don't think we've even seen the Rangers' "A" game yet this season. We've seen Henrik's "A" game. We haven't seen that coupled with an "A" game from the forwards and an "A" game from the defense in the same game. The offense is still struggling to find consistency. Lines have been juggled, the 1st and 3rd D pairs have been switched back and forth, our powerplay has been extremely inconsistent, and we've been fighting the injury bug since opening night. There were very high hopes before this season started, built on the success of last season and the big UFA signings of Drury and Gomez. I'm not giving up on those expectations 30 games into the season. We haven't played nearly our "A" game and we're still 2 points out of the division lead. We owe Henrik a lot of that credit, but that doesn't mean we lose credit as a team. Henrik is a part of this team and he'll be in net all season and in the playoffs. His ability to steal games is the most valuable asset a team can have, and if our forwards and defense get in sync, I don't even see the Senators beating us in a 7 game series. They have a serious weak link in net. Emery doesn't impress me at all. He gave up soft goals all playoff. He made some huge saves as well, but Ottawa's offense and team game is what carried them to the finals. And Gerber ain't anything to worry about either. All I'm saying is that this team is very close to being cup-caliber. We're maybe one big gritty forward or one gritty defenseman away from having a very well constructed group. With Henrik in goal, everything else becomes that much easier. And Jagr isn't going to slump much longer. Mark my words.

I cannot tell you why - perhaps he is broken up that Nyander is gone and it's sour grapes - I don't know. I do know that he's on pace for 62 points this season; 27 of which are at ES, compared to 55, 71, 49 and 47 (ES points) over the last four seasons (by comparison, Prucha had 25 two seasons ago and 24 last season - so in other words, pathetic!).

these "the sky is falling" geniuses need to get a clue. the sky may be falling, as i have posted before, the window to winning championships in any league dont come around every day. either we have the makings of a championship team (needing some improvements) or we dont and we break it all down and start fresh. take your chances or get off the pot. aside from Staal and a very small few others, anyone can be had if that means a shot at the Chalice!

Because, I don't see many teams playing better defense than the Rangers have so far. I know a lot of it rests on Henrik, but he will be in net during the playoffs too, so if our defense (with Henrik) is good enough to have the league's fewest goals against, I think it's championship caliber or at least not far off.
Differentiate between team defense and the defense corps for this discussion. As a unit they CAN play very good team defense. They have shown recently that they can also play very average team defense. When that happens and the forwards do not actively support it, the defense corps - like the team as a whole - looks "good," nothing more. It also bears mentioning that there will be no bad teams in the playoffs with which to pad your goals-against average.

Just because we have a Strudwick or a Malik or a Pock as our 6th man doesn't mean we have a weak D squad. The Canes won the cup with Aaron Ward getting plenty of minutes, and we all saw what kind of defenseman he was. The Ducks won with Joe DiPenta and Sean O'Donnell. "Championship caliber defenders" doesn't really come to mind when thinking of these guys.
I'm not looking at guys at the bottom of the lineup when I'm looking at a championship defense corps; I'm looking at the guys at the top, those who will be eating minutes. If they are not championship caliber, lesser players must move up, and this has a trickle down effect with 2nd pair players playing top minutes, and 3rd pairing players playing on the 2nd unit. The Canes top D pairing was Kaberle and Hedican; the Rangers have no Kaberle, and while Roszival can put up Hedican's numbers, he is not in Hedican's class defensively meaning the Blueshirts have no corellary to Hedican either. (This is why Jagr called for a top defenseman in the off-season, and he called for it rightly, IMO.)

We need not bother discussing the Ducks' top pairing; there can be no debate there. O'Donnell was 4th on that defense corps in ice time; DiPenta was 6th. If the Blueshirts have Mara and Malik as their bottom pairing, I think that's okay.

with all the offensive talent we have
I questioned the team's offensive talent coming into the season, and I think we have plenty of reason to continue doing so. Jagr and Shanahan have declined worse than even I thought they would. Could they turn it on? Jagr certainly COULD but will he? We've seen no reason to believe his game will suddenly find new urgency. Shanahan is okay; he should be fine in his 2nd line role but that's about it. He's a 2nd-liner at this point. Drury has never been a massive point-getter. He's a quality guy but has never been a PPG player. Gomez? Same. 20 goals once in his career; PPG average once. If he can be linked to a devastating goal scorer, Gomez can be a force with his playmaking. Right now, though, the Rangers have only one potentially devastating goal scorer, and he seems to have little interest in scoring goals or much of anything else. For right or wrong he also will not adapt his game to mesh with Gomez's. I'll say again, you cannot merely hope or expect that things will get better with Jagr and thus the team. Sather, if he believes this to be the year, must be proactive and DO something to make Jagr feel better and thus play better.

For my money, only the defense has met offensive expectations, but then again the offensive expectations for this defense are not high.

The season is still young and a lot of these players are still adjusting. Gomez, Drury of course, but also Staal and Dubinsky.
Okay. We'll have to simply agree to disagree on this one. IMO the season is not young for Drury, Gomez, or any other 6+ year vet on this team.

Staal has looked outstanding and will continue to grow; he looks like a championship-caliber rookie. That is to say, Staal looks like a rookie who can play a significant role on a Cup winning team. On the other hand Dubinsky does not. This, too, is fine because Dubinsky is not being asked to play a significant role - nor will he be I expect.

If this team is healthy and if playing as a 5-man unit in all three zones come playoff time, there will be very few teams that can beat us in a 7 game series.
CAN this team with quite a few older players - including 4 of its 5 top offensive players - stay both healthy and fresh? I sincerely doubt it.

CAN they play as a 5-man unit? Not when Jagr's line is on the ice. It's not his game and he will not be productive if you try to force him into it. BUT the other 3 lines can; they've shown it. On the other hand they've also been showing that they are not Lemaire's Devils, or Bowman's Wings, or Hitchcock's Stars. This team does not have the machine-like discipline to play that way every single night. Perhaps Renney can get them to that stage; I don't know. (I will say it's not helpful that Jagr will and must be held to a different standard.)

I will add a couple "ifs":
1. If Sather can acquire a #1 defenseman
2. If Jagr decides to play like a champion (which is to say, IF Sather can find a way to make Jagr happy)
3. Assuming Avery comes back and is productive, if three of Gomez, Shanahan, Drury, Straka can re-discover their offensive games

If all these things come together, the team can advance to the finals.

either we have the makings of a championship team (needing some improvements) or we dont and we break it all down and start fresh.

I don't think it's that black and white. There's definitely the makings of a chamionship team here, but that doesn't mean it has to be won this season. Like Mugerya said, Drury and Gomez are the backbone of the next 5 years, along with Staal, Girardi, Dubinsky and a few others.

robruckus called this a team in a transition phase yesterday, and I think that's probably an accurate assessment. On the surface, it seemed like throwing the new pieces of the Rangers into a pot with the old pieces of the Rangers would be a receipe for instant success. Instead, the ingredients don't mix. Yes, it's disappointing, but if you view the season as a stop on the road to building a legitimate Cup contender, then you just continue to address the areas that need improvement.

Sorry dedalus, but I don't think that getting Jagr back on track is going to make this team a real threat anymore. Like Mugerya said, it wasn't enough in the past and certainly won't be enough today. The more we talk it out, the more it seems that Jagr is standing in the way moving on to the future Ranger team Sather has in mind. If this team is going to maximize it's competitiveness this season, it needs to be done with Jagr as a supporting cast member, not the centerpiece.

Yes, it's disappointing, but if you view the season as a stop on the road to building a legitimate Cup contender, then you just continue to address the areas that need improvement.


I'm starting to think that this is exactly the case right now. If Malik gets traded, we will have just one veteran on defense (Strudwick doesn't count, since I don't see him playing the w