Greene sits?!

Per Gulitti.
http://njmg.typepad.com/devilsblog/

Brent Sutter wants to put Rachunek back into the lineup and according to Gulitti it looks like Greene and Oduya will be scratched. They were the extra pair in practice.

How the heck does that make sense for Sutter?! Andy Greene?!! He's going with Mike Mottau over Andy Greene?! What?!!

What?

What?

:help:

All right, I was wondering if it would be Oduya, Mottau, or Brookbank sitting...Greene being out never even crossed my mind. He, along with Martin and White, are the only 2 I feel comfortable with out there.

This is a disgrace. Now Sutter is starting to piss me off.

Of course unless Andy has an undisclosed injury, or sick or something.

Haha at least Oduya's out

What what what????

I would hate to be Sutter right now especially with Janssen coming back in a couple of weeks too. How could you possibly sit Pelley, Asham, Brylin or Clarkson?

All right, I was wondering if it would be Oduya, Mottau, or Brookbank sitting...Greene being out never even crossed my mind. He, along with Martin and White, are the only 2 I feel comfortable with out there.

the only reason i can think of why greene would sit is sutter trying to let him know that he has to work for his ice time and compete, so in the long haul it may be a good thing. he might come back firey and working his ass off.

That makes perfect sense. Bench our number 3 defenseman so that a career AHLer in Mike Mottau gets top four minutes.

What what what????

I would hate to be Sutter right now especially with Janssen coming back in a couple of weeks too. How could you possibly sit Pelley, Asham, Brylin or Clarkson?

why does everyone think jannsen is going to actually play? i mean imo i dont see how he could. out fourth line now can move the puck and score, along with get a little scrappy but cam all he can do is fight

So Greene and Rachunek both sit yet only Rachunek is listed on the injury report day to day (personal reasons)


... :pullhair:

but cam all he can do is fight

... and get the crowd into the game and get the Rock a rockin' which gets the team fired up and moving their feet. Intangibles my dear boy - intangibles.

That makes perfect sense. Bench our number 3 defenseman so that a career AHLer in Mike Mottau gets top four minutes.

Psh, Modano doesn't have **** on Mike Mottau!

So Greene and Rachunek both sit yet only Rachunek is listed on the injury report day to day (personal reasons)


... :pullhair:

Rachunek has been listed DTD because his wife just had a kid. That's why he didn't play.

why does everyone think jannsen is going to actually play? i mean imo i dont see how he could. out fourth line now can move the puck and score, along with get a little scrappy but cam all he can do is fight

I know, good question...Cam will first do a stint in the AHL to begin with, even if he were to return to the NHL. Secondly, I don't see him coming back even for as much as Sutter liked him. Although, sitting Rupp, turning Pelley into a John Madden type center, wouldn't be too bad of an idea.

I mean lets face it, if you got a choice between Rupp and Janssen who are you going to take? Both do basically the same job, except Cam often does it way better.

I hope he's back with NJ but I highly doubt it.

How could you possibly sit Pelley, Asham, Brylin or Clarkson?

You don't. You get rid of Oduya and put Janssen on defense.:sarcasm:

So Greene and Rachunek both sit yet only Rachunek is listed on the injury report day to day (personal reasons)


... :pullhair:



... and get the crowd into the game and get the Rock a rockin' which gets the team fired up and moving their feet. Intangibles my dear boy - intangibles.

but brookbank asham and clarkson all fight but they can actually play hockey too

You don't. You get rid of Oduya and put Janssen on defense.:sarcasm:

Not that I wouldn't love having Cam be a bigger part of this team, overall, but have you see the guy skate? I don't take him as being a good, sound, defensemen in his lifetime.

How can any reasonably thinking Coach in this world scratch Greene?
I can't believe it!:shakehead

If true, I don't know why Greene is sitting. While I do think that he hasn't played as well as last year (especially playoffs wise), he's easily been better than Oduya, Mottau and Brookbank.

What exactly does Brookbank add? Size? With White back in the lineup, Brookbank should be back in the AHL.

Well be sure if you goto the game to boo when he's announced as one. That ought to send a message.

Also, if this is for more than one game, my entire position on Sutter will change. Sorry but, I think this is an awful call if he's really a 'healthy' scratch.

but brookbank asham and clarkson all fight but they can actually play hockey too

True, but Janssen is a maniac on the ice hitting everything that moves (cleanly). It's awesome to see. I would be scared out of my mind if I was on the ice at the same time as him because you know that your getting hit hard at some point during your shift.

Gulitti admits though that this is all speculation by him. That said, Mottau hasn't played bad the last few games on the PP. I don't think this decision long term means anything but just shows you need to play your best constantly to start. Not a bad thing.

I could see oduya but Greene? this does not make sense, greene is better than mottau,brookbank,oduya, and rachunek

he his very calm in the defensive zone, and good with puck. I will not believe this until i see the game and he is out

this makes no sense

greene is our best Dman at +10 *** SUTTER

greene is our best Dman at +10 *** SUTTER

Just so you know, that makes Rachunek equally our best D-Man.

Makes no sense. Mottau can play a good PP shift, but what about Greene?

Theres no way Greene sits. In the past its always been Greene-Rachunek pair up. I'm guessing either Brookbank or Vishnevski sits.

They have the worse +/- on the team right now. I may go as far to say that Oduya may not sit either and both Brookbank and Vishnevski may be out.

If Greene becomes a healthy scratch, we're losing to Dallas for sure. They are 2nd in the west right now.

True, but Janssen is a maniac on the ice hitting everything that moves (cleanly). It's awesome to see. I would be scared out of my mind if I was on the ice at the same time as him because you know that your getting hit hard at some point during your shift.

about 75% of the time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66eM7d-j7p4

yikes

the only reason i can think of why greene would sit is sutter trying to let him know that he has to work for his ice time and compete, so in the long haul it may be a good thing. he might come back firey and working his ass off.

That's pretty much it. Maybe Sutter felt like he was going to play Greene third
pair, so it's a good time to send a message.

Maybe he's just goofing on him in practice, saw something he didn't like.

Just so you know, that makes Rachunek equally our best D-Man.

+/- is garbage.

I haven't seen anything out of Greene that makes me think he's earned, say a #3-4
spot on the roster.

So he goes into the muck with the rest of 'em. Honestly, as long as they keep two guys in the lineup who can move the puck, I don't care which ones out of that group gets scratched or not. As long as Martin and White play.

So he goes into the muck with the rest of 'em. Honestly, as long as they keep two guys in the lineup who can move the puck, I don't care which ones out of that group gets scratched or not. As long as Martin and White play.

Well Greene moves the puck pretty well so far. He's been the reason we have kept the shots in the offensive zone alot of the time. You'll see what happens when he's not in the lineup.

That poke check he did on Lecavalier last game should have said it all.

+/- is garbage.

I haven't seen anything out of Greene that makes me think he's earned, say a #3-4
spot on the roster.

So he goes into the muck with the rest of 'em. Honestly, as long as they keep two guys in the lineup who can move the puck, I don't care which ones out of that group gets scratched or not. As long as Martin and White play.

I love how you think a defensman plus minus rating is insignificant.

anyway, I agree with the second half of your post, i think all of the defensman have earned a righ to play including mattau

Greene was really good last year in the playoffs but now he is slumping. I am still disapointed in Sutter's decision beause he still plays pretty well. Although I am really happy Oduya is gone. Greatest riddance ever.

I say Brookbank and Vishnevski both sit to be honest.

You guys may flame me and God only knows I'm not a Rachunek fan, but this may be a way to motivate Greene. I understand he's a + 10 and everyone says he's been good. However, I must admit that I've been disappointed in his game. He is no way playing like he did in the Tampa series. He's been real soft and turned over the puck quite a few times. He's only a rookie and maybe I expected to much to soon from the kid, but one game won't kill him, I hope it get's him angry.

I watched those playoff games, and Greenes not playing any worse than those games. He's still pretty solid and unless someone bumps him off the puck, he stays in possession of it. Bumping him off the puck usually isn't easy either.

Most of his gaffs usually involving a pass to a partner that misses the puck. Or the partner passing a puck out of range. Thats not his fault.

+/- is garbage.

I haven't seen anything out of Greene that makes me think he's earned, say a #3-4
spot on the roster.

So he goes into the muck with the rest of 'em. Honestly, as long as they keep two guys in the lineup who can move the puck, I don't care which ones out of that group gets scratched or not. As long as Martin and White play.

+/- is not garbage.....especially when comparing players on the same team. Do you think its a fluke Greene is +10 and Vishnevski is -7? Do you think its because Vitaly is facing more difficult situation (top lines) than Greene? Without question the +/- stat is solid indication of how two defensemen are performing on the same team.

I haven't seen anything out of Greene that makes me think he's earned, say a #3-4
spot on the roster.

Greene rarelyy makes mistakes and is extremely dependable with the puck...He has been the most reliable Defensemen on the ice all year...By a lot.

This kid has more upside than any dman on our roster. To sit Greene over Motteu, Oduya, Brookbank, Vishnevski and maybe even Rachunek doesn't make sense at all.

about 75% of the time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66eM7d-j7p4

yikes

late, but it was still clean.

The only reason I would see Sutter sitting him would be to give him a rest. But against a team like Dallas, I don't think thats a very good idea. Maybe against a more physical agressive offensive team but not against a defensive team like Dallas.

Guys, don't go off on Sutter just yet. He hasn't even made a decision yet. Gulitti's just speculating. People were complaining before that Sutter put Mottau in over Rachunek (also a +10, like Greene), but he played well. Besides, if I remember correctly, Greene never seemed that comfortable playing with Mottau. Maybe the Devils go with 7 dmen again and sit Oduya and have Greene back with White and Martin.

I watched those playoff games, and Greenes not playing any worse than those games. He's still pretty solid and unless someone bumps him off the puck, he stays in possession of it. Bumping him off the puck usually isn't easy either.

Most of his gaffs usually involving a pass to a partner that misses the puck. Or the partner passing a puck out of range. Thats not his fault.

I just see some flaws in his game. Then again, I see flaws in all our defensemen, except White so far.

I say Brookbank and Vishnevski both sit to be honest.

I disagree. Vishnevski has been excelent in his role as a hard hitting yet very mobile defensive defenseman. He wasn't brought in to play big minutes, rather he was signed to play about 15 high impact minutes. Brookbank's been solid. The pair seems to work well together, especially on the #2 PK unit (one of the reasons why our PK has gotten so much better).

From what I have seen I think the pairings should be:

Martin-White: Logging upwards of 22 mins
Greene-Rachunek: Logging about 20 each
Vishnevski-Brookbank: Logging about 15-17
Mottau: getting in there once in a while
Oduya: getting the hell out of there

"If we got with 12 forwards, we'll have to sit two (defensemen)," Sutter said. "If we go with 11 forwards, we'll have to sit an extra forward. We're going to meet on that this afternoon."

Right wing Cam Janssen (right shoulder surgery) was to skate for the first time this morning, but I have yet to receive confirmation that he did. If I do, I'll post it later.


Sounds like this team is primed for a trade....To many forwards , too many Defensemen.

Oduya at 600K seems like he would be very attractive to team needing a servicable defensemen? And with Brookbank and Mottau both Making less than him (500K and 475K) Oduya seems like an excellent choice to move.

+/- is not garbage.....especially when comparing players on the same team. Do you think its a fluke Greene is +10 and Vishnevski is -7? Do you think its because Vitaly is facing more difficult situation (top lines) than Greene? Without question the +/- stat is solid indication of how two defensemen are performing on the same team.



Greene rarelyy makes mistakes and is extremely dependable with the puck...He has been the most reliable Defensemen on the ice all year...By a lot.

This kid has more upside than any dman on our roster. To sit Greene over Motteu, Oduya, Brookbank, Vishnevski and maybe even Rachunek doesn't make sense at all.

I agree, Sutter must be messing with his head to get him to work harder because Greene is definately the 3rd best d-man on the team.

I agree, Sutter must be messing with his head to get him to work harder because Greene is definately the 3rd best d-man on the team.

I would argue that Greene is the 2nd best D-man on the team before Martin. But some disagree. Also I see problems in White's game too, if we're being critical. Just the ones that make the least mistakes are White, Martin and Greene.

Jesus calm down.

That's just speculation on my part, but Sutter said of Rachunek, "We've got to get him back in the lineup."

It's speculation. Calm down, it's laughable the way you're all acting right now.

Rachunek has made his presence felt the last couple of games

Explain something to me... If we're playing 12 forwards and 7 defensman, then we have 20 players, Shouldn't only one D man have to sit?

Explain something to me... If we're playing 12 forwards and 7 defensman, then we have 20 players, Shouldn't only one D man have to sit?
Elias and Rachunek both are entering the lineup

Elias and Rachunek both are entering the lineup

Right, that makes
Parise-Elias-Gionta
Zubrus-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Brylin-Pelley-Asham

Thats 12 forwards.

White-Martin
Vishnevski-Brookbank
Rachunek-Mottau
Greene

That would be 7 D.

12 + 7 = 19 + Marty = 20

So why do we need to sit 2 D?

Right, that makes
Parise-Elias-Gionta
Zubrus-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Brylin-Pelley-Asham

Thats 12 forwards.

White-Martin
Vishnevski-Brookbank
Rachunek-Mottau
Greene

That would be 7 D.

12 + 7 = 19 + Marty = 20

So why do we need to sit 2 D?

Backup goaltender...

Explain something to me... If we're playing 12 forwards and 7 defensman, then we have 20 players, Shouldn't only one D man have to sit?

2 goalies ...

Right, that makes
Parise-Elias-Gionta
Zubrus-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Brylin-Pelley-Asham

Thats 12 forwards.

White-Martin
Vishnevski-Brookbank
Rachunek-Mottau
Greene

That would be 7 D.

12 + 7 = 19 + Marty = 20

So why do we need to sit 2 D?

Weekes.

poor Weekes, nobody knows you exist.

Sounds like this team is primed for a trade....To many forwards , too many Defensemen.

Oduya at 600K seems like he would be very attractive to team needing a servicable defensemen? And with Brookbank and Mottau both Making less than him (500K and 475K) Oduya seems like an excellent choice to move.

How the heck to you make a trade in todays NHL. That's one thing the cap has killed and that's the fun of trading until the deadline.

How the heck to you make a trade in todays NHL. That's one thing the cap has killed and that's the fun of trading until the deadline.

That's why Brian Burke is leading a charge to allow teams to eat salary to help get trades through.

poor Weekes, nobody knows you exist.

and he's not very photogenic.

Greene has made some mistakes the last few games. Nothing Oduya like but the guy is still a rookie. There seems like there's no deperation in his game, probably because he has such good hockey sense but not everyone is Scott Niedermayer. The guy has the physical tools but it just seems like if he tried a little harder he could be so much better. AND if he takes one more dinky little wrist that bounces off a fowards shinpads out into the neutral zone im going to lose my mind. Take a SLAPSHOT. DOESNS'T HE SOOT IT 97 MPH?

If he does sit it wont be for more than a game. It could be a very good thnig for him in the long run, who knows?

Greene has made some mistakes the last few games. Nothing Oduya like but the guy is still a rookie. There seems like there's no deperation in his game, probably because he has such good hockey sense but not everyone is Scott Niedermayer. The guy has the physical tools but it just seems like if he tried a little harder he could be so much better. AND if he takes one more dinky little wrist that bounces off a fowards shinpads out into the neutral zone im going to lose my mind. Take a SLAPSHOT. DOESNS'T HE SOOT IT 97 MPH?

If he does sit it wont be for more than a game. It could be a very good thnig for him in the long run, who knows?

Does he really shoot that hard?

However an argument to his defense of his wristers is that he's probably got very little control over his shot and doesn't want to kill someone in front of the net by cracking them square in the face.

You need good aim to shoot that hard. He's no Kovalchuk. Now that guys shot is a ****ing weapon...but at the same time he's capable of hitting the net more often than not. The game we played Atlanta was a bit uncharacteristic of him based on what I've seen him do.

Edit: although he did absolutely destroy Marty in the head in that one OT game we played them where they scored on the rebound off Marty's head.

How the heck to you make a trade in todays NHL. That's one thing the cap has killed and that's the fun of trading until the deadline.

I agree.... but moving minor players making less than 1M shouldn't be a problem?

Oduya is not great, but he is a good skating, servicable Defensemen making no money. That is a good asset for somebody needing defensive help.

We have a really cheap defense right now and about 3M in Cap space.

Mottau 450K
Brookbank 500K
Oduya 600K
Greene 650
Vishnevski and Rachunek 1.4
White and Martin at 3M.

greene is our best Dman at +10 *** SUTTER

Guys, guys, guys, it was just practice we're talking about (DO NOT reply with an Iverson youtube link). That DOESNT mean he will sit in the game. Maybe Sutter was just experimenting with different combos. Lets not all go crazy and storm the Prudential Center with lanterns and pitchforks after Sutter. On the brightside, it does appear that Odontya has firmly entrenched himself in the Sutter Doghouse. :yo:

Uh oh

I don't think everyone should freak out. Greene Is one of our few players to play all games this year and while he did play last year this is still his first full season, In that i think its ok to give him a rest. It will only get harder to rest good players when we are fighting for a playoff berth. I rather have green not crap out then.

Jesus, let's not freak out about a decision Sutter hasn't even made yet.

Right, that makes
Parise-Elias-Gionta
Zubrus-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Brylin-Pelley-Asham

Thats 12 forwards.

White-Martin
Vishnevski-Brookbank
Rachunek-Mottau
Greene

That would be 7 D.

12 + 7 = 19 + Marty = 20

So why do we need to sit 2 D?

Oduya

Brookbank >>>>>>>>>> Mottau and Oduya

Brookbank >>>>>>>>>> Mottau and Oduya

Mottau>Brookbank>Oduya

+/- is not garbage.....especially when comparing players on the same team. Do you think its a fluke Greene is +10 and Vishnevski is -7? Do you think its because Vitaly is facing more difficult situation (top lines) than Greene? Without question the +/- stat is solid indication of how two defensemen are performing on the same team.



Greene rarelyy makes mistakes and is extremely dependable with the puck...He has been the most reliable Defensemen on the ice all year...By a lot.

This kid has more upside than any dman on our roster. To sit Greene over Motteu, Oduya, Brookbank, Vishnevski and maybe even Rachunek doesn't make sense at all.


I think that we have defenseman with high +/- ratings tells you how useless the stat is in the "new" NHL.

Until Vish and Greene play with the same players in the same situations, I don't see how you can use it as a comparison.

I don't think one is that much better than the other right now. Greene has been a C player and Vish a C-. Greene hasn't made me physically ill at times like Oduya and Mottau have, but he hasn't exactly taken his game to the next level in his "second" season. He should be clearly better than the rest of the pack and he's not.

Mottau>Brookbank>Oduya

no way mottau is better than brookbank, mottau doesnt belong in this league, brookbank actually fights and has a better shot

Does he really shoot that hard?

However an argument to his defense of his wristers is that he's probably got very little control over his shot and doesn't want to kill someone in front of the net by cracking them square in the face.

You need good aim to shoot that hard. He's no Kovalchuk. Now that guys shot is a ****ing weapon...but at the same time he's capable of hitting the net more often than not. The game we played Atlanta was a bit uncharacteristic of him based on what I've seen him do.

Edit: although he did absolutely destroy Marty in the head in that one OT game we played them where they scored on the rebound off Marty's head.

Yes, he does shoot that hard. He had an absolute rocket during the comeback in Game 1 against Ottawa.

You'd never know watching him this year, though.

Yes, he does shoot that hard. He had an absolute rocket during the comeback in Game 1 against Ottawa.

You'd never know watching him this year, though.

Yeah no ****, I don't even remember it. haha. But the question also is...do you blame him or do you blame the coaching for not stepping it up and reminding him or working with him on it?

The reality is, on the PP these guys practice doing specific things, all he's doing is probably what he's been told to do.

Personally i don't think Greene has played that great, yea he leads rookies in +/-, but that is such an overrated stat.......Motteau is playing well, and Rachunek lets face it was playing well, and the only reason he wasnt playing was because of the birth of his new baby.......


I actually would like to see them put a lineup of

Parise-Elias-Gionta
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Zubrus-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Asham-Pelley-Motteau/double shift someone (Motteau can play sparingly on the 4th line, and also play the point on the PP with Langs, they've really worked well together.)

Martin-White
Greene-Rachunek
Brookbank-Vishnevski

with Johnny O being a healthy scratch.....

no way mottau is better than brookbank, mottau doesnt belong in this league, brookbank actually fights and has a better shot

Brookbank is terrible in his own zone.

I actually would like to see them put a lineup of

Parise-Elias-Gionta
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Zubrus-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Asham-Pelley-Motteau/double shift someone (Motteau can play sparingly on the 4th line, and also play the point on the PP with Langs, they've really worked well together.)

Martin-White
Greene-Rachunek
Brookbank-Vishnevski

with Johnny O being a healthy scratch.....

What about Brylin? I'd rather see him on the fourth line then having Mottau on the ice at all.

I never have actually done this but I would like:

Parise - Elias - Gio
Zubrus - Zaj - Langs/Clarkson (like after a PP when Langs is out)
Pando - Madden - Clarkson/Asham
Asham - Pelley - Parise (i like the occasional double shift)


Martin - Rachunek
Greene - White
Brookbank - Vishnevski


not much different than most peoples, but I think keeping Green with Whitey could really be a good tandem. White can bring the physical force deep in the zone, Greene can play smart in front of the net as he usually does, plus it adds at least a shot to the duo being white couldn't hit the net if they did increase them about 30%. haha

Yeah no ****, I don't even remember it. haha. But the question also is...do you blame him or do you blame the coaching for not stepping it up and reminding him or working with him on it?

The reality is, on the PP these guys practice doing specific things, all he's doing is probably what he's been told to do.

The lack of a second unit probably doesn't help, either.

Elias-Gomez-Gio-Rafalski-Langenbrunner left Zach and Zajac for the second unit.

Now, everyone pretty much plays at once.

The lack of a second unit probably doesn't help, either.

Elias-Gomez-Gio-Rafalski-Langenbrunner left Zach and Zajac for the second unit.

Now, everyone pretty much plays at once.

yeah. while I understand chemistry is huge...I wouldn't mind much if we kept a steady cycle of players on the PP. Like keep some core guys but really change it up sometimes and give each unit different ways to play.

Like why not put out a "big unit" on the PP, even if it comes up fruitless?

I mean it might be a mess but it also might work...imagine like:

Asham - Zubrus - Clarkson
Martin - Rachunek

and just play a balls out style where basically they just charge the net at all costs.

As much as I ****ing hate the way goaltenders get run, it happens a lot and not much comes of it and a lot of times what does is goals. We hardly ever do it, which I respect, but why the **** not? We have a future HOF goalie getting smashed every chance people get..we ought to dish it out a little more. So put out some guys that can play offense but have size too and just take it to the netmouth and let loose.

I know my thinking is radical and highly unlikely to happen...but that's also why I'm posting on here and not an actual coach in the NHL. :biglaugh:

Mottau>Brookbank>Oduya

I agree. Have been hugely impressed with Mottau's play as of late, and do not throw him under the bus for a skate hitting a rut in the ice in the Isles game. Oduya has given us at least a dozen of those moments -- Mike just the one.

I love Andy Greene, and sitting him makes no sense to me, but if Sutter has pairings he likes, I'll wait and see for the moment.

Anyway, back to my Mike Mottau love in... I posted this in another thread, in response to Weeonta and his mancrush on Sheldon Brookbank (the BBB Club -- The Brookbank Bandwagoneers...) and it seems worth repeating here;

I, myself, am starting the MMM -- the Mike Mottau Manclub -- and will act as Club President, as he has quickly become my favorite of the AHL scrubs that have come to town over the last two seasons to fill in for our patchwork defense. I think he has been playing his azz off lately and deserves a spot ahead of everyone besides our big three (White, Martin and Greene.) Maybe just me, but I truly feel more comfortable with him on the ice than Oduya, Rachunek or Vishnevski. And we'll just say "tied" with Brookbank (so as not to offend the BBB.)

The lack of a second unit probably doesn't help, either.

Elias-Gomez-Gio-Rafalski-Langenbrunner left Zach and Zajac for the second unit.

Now, everyone pretty much plays at once.

And the odd thing is that Sutter doesn't even play the first unit for that long, only for about a minute if that. He should give them more time to set up chances. It's not like we have a great unit behind them.

And the odd thing is that Sutter doesn't even play the first unit for that long, only for about a minute if that. He should give them more time to set up chances. It's not like we have a great unit behind them.

Thats the normal time for a pp unit. More than that and I think the players would be a little gassed for their next shift.

Guys, guys, guys, it was just practice we're talking about (DO NOT reply with an Iverson youtube link). That DOESNT mean he will sit in the game. Maybe Sutter was just experimenting with different combos. Lets not all go crazy and storm the Prudential Center with lanterns and pitchforks after Sutter. On the brightside, it does appear that Odontya has firmly entrenched himself in the Sutter Doghouse. :yo:

finally something you and me agree on. I think it is a little crazy to take so much from a practice

i still say there is no way greene sits, oduya,brookbank and mottau all should sit before hime and you can make a case that rachunek and vish should too. martin and white are the only sure guys ahead of him on depth chart imo.

finally something you and me agree on. I think it is a little crazy to take so much from a practice

i still say there is no way greene sits, oduya,brookbank and mottau all should sit before hime and you can make a case that rachunek and vish should too. martin and white are the only sure guys ahead of him on depth chart imo.

sorry but, as much as people downplay the +/- stat...Rachunek is a +10 on a team that's given up more goals than it has scored, and he didn't dress for the shutout.

Bottom line is, that means we've scored more goals when he was out there than the other team has, period and that's all that matters.

Also Rachunek has played 7 less games and still has 1 more point than Greene does. If Greene has a case to be in the lineup so does Karel.

Rachunek has been much better then Greene. It always made me cry when Greene played on the power play this year. I don't see any discussion of Greene being the better D-man.

Mottau>Brookbank>Oduya

Brookbank>Mottau>Oduya

I seem to remember, a couple of weeks ago, Clarkson getting benched for a game? This board had a meltdown. I think he has played great since that Ranger game. He is even back to playing with Madden and Pando. He is a rookie and needed to sit a game. So is Greene.

Christ, people, I know we want to win every game, but if Greene deserves to sit tomorrow, then so be it. Some of you are just looking for any reason to rip into this coach. I mean, Greene hasn'r exactly been Bobby Orr back there and Mottau and Brookbank aren't really that far off from him right now anyway. If Sutter does sit Greene for a game to get his ass back to where it was last playoff season, then that is fine with me.

I always considered Greene to be more of a defensive defensman than a pp quarteback type

I seem to remember, a couple of weeks ago, Clarkson getting benched for a game? This board had a meltdown. I think he has played great since that Ranger game. He is even back to playing with Madden and Pando. He is a rookie and needed to sit a game. So is Greene.

Christ, people, I know we want to win every game, but if Greene deserves to sit tomorrow, then so be it. Some of you are just looking for any reason to rip into this coach. I mean, Greene hasn'r exactly been Bobby Orr back there and Mottau and Brookbank aren't really that far off from him right now anyway. If Sutter does sit Greene for a game to get his ass back to where it was last playoff season, then that is fine with me.

I have been all over this coach, and am not a fan.

But I agree. He should be able to do his job and, you know, coach without everyone having a conniption.

Brookbank>Mottau>Oduya

You say potato, I say tomato.

Well this definitely sucks...Mottau playing over Greene is sadder than sad.

There's no way in hell that Greene sits he's one of our best defence man wat;s sutter doing is he trying to send a message to that team shows them that in Jersey he's boss i mean i can;t think y showing the team that he can sit's anyone anytime hahahha that man is funny and insane!!!! this is not the time to fool around Sutter god dam we just got a our game back now he;s wants to play with GRRRReeeeennnnnEEEEE of all people he's been there all year for him good and bad games and this is how he re-pays him Class act that man is a lil cookoo up stairs.

But mark my words If Greene really is a healthy scartech tommrow Sutter will get it from LOU trust me watch

But mark my words If Greene really is a healthy scartech tommrow Sutter will get it from LOU trust me watch

Only if Lou overreacts as badly as the spoiled crybabies that freak out everytime Sutter makes a change in the lineup...

the only reason i can think of why greene would sit is sutter trying to let him know that he has to work for his ice time and compete, so in the long haul it may be a good thing. he might come back firey and working his ass off.

I agree. Greene has been steady, but not extraordinary. Remember that he's still a rookie, despite the fact that he's looked like more of a veteran than half the clowns who have played defense for the team this year. This move doesn't bother me, so long as it's only for a game or two.

If true, I don't know why Greene is sitting. While I do think that he hasn't played as well as last year (especially playoffs wise), he's easily been better than Oduya, Mottau and Brookbank.



And that would be why he's sitting (if he indeed sits, which he might not). The team needs Greene on the powerplay, and right now Mottau has been better on the powerplay.

Sounds like this team is primed for a trade....To many forwards , too many Defensemen.

Oduya at 600K seems like he would be very attractive to team needing a servicable defensemen? And with Brookbank and Mottau both Making less than him (500K and 475K) Oduya seems like an excellent choice to move.

He was an UFA during the offseason because Lou didn't qualify him. Then Lou signed him for even less than his qualifying offer. I'm not sure why he'd suddenly become very attractive to another team, especially since his play hasn't exactly been inspiring this year.

Lets just hope it will be Oduya who sits. It would be foolish and a big mistake to sit Greene.

You guys are idiots. If you actually read the blog you would know that Greene being scratched is just speculation on gulittis part. He said it himself.

You guys are idiots. If you actually read the blog you would know that Greene being scratched is just speculation on gulittis part. He said it himself.



No lineup changes tonight.... as per the bergen record.

No lineup changes tonight.... as per the bergen record.

where do you see that? I just read the record online and I don't see anywhere that he says there won't be any changes. It still says Sutter will have to sit 2 defensemen.

No lineup changes tonight.... as per the bergen record.

Ummm....Elias is back, so he is in. Rachunek is also in according to Sutter. If that's not lineup changes I don't know what is.

Two guys that played in the last game vs Tampa won't be playing tonight.

Backup goaltender...

OOps forgot about Weekes. Do we really need him this game? Couldn't we go with 7 defensemen and not have a backup goalie for this game?

OOps forgot about Weekes. Do we really need him this game? Couldn't we go with 7 defensemen and not have a backup goalie for this game?

Uh yeah. Is it that important to have one more average defenseman on the ice?

Uh yeah. Is it that important to have one more average defenseman on the ice?

More than a goalie who probably won't get to play anyway. With 7 defensemen it means our guys will make less mistakes on the ice.

More than a goalie who probably won't get to play anyway. With 7 defensemen it means our guys will make less mistakes on the ice.

If we sit Oduya, and either Brookbank or Mottau, we won't have to worry as much about guys who make mistake on the ice. I have good faith in White, Martin, Greene, and Vishnevski. You have to have a backup goaltender at all times in my opinion. What if Marty gets hurt?

You are required to have 2 goaltenders (MIN) and 18 skaters (MAX) on the game roster. Let's not get goofy here with the ideas fellas. :shakehead

You never go without a backup goalie - what would you do if Marty got hurt? Put Oduya in net since he's the most experienced at flopping on the ice? :biglaugh:

If we sit Oduya, and either Brookbank or Mottau, we won't have to worry as much about guys who make mistake on the ice. I have good faith in White, Martin, Greene, and Vishnevski. You have to have a backup goaltender at all times in my opinion. What if Marty gets hurt?

we'll just put a forward in the goal. Heck if Lecavalier can do it...

Seriously, I'm only saying 7 D because Sutter doesn't want to sit Rachunek, and I would hate to see Greene not in the lineup.
If we're going with 6 I rather have :

White-Martin
Greene-Rachunek
Mottau-Brookbank

we'll just put a forward in the goal. Heck if Lecavalier can do it...

Seriously, I'm only saying 7 D because Sutter doesn't want to sit Rachunek, and I would hate to see Greene not in the lineup.
If we're going with 6 I rather have :

White-Martin
Greene-Rachunek
Mottau-Brookbank

I want to see Rachunek in there too, but I hope it's not at the expense of Greene. I mean he can pick two out of Vish, Brookbank, Mottau, Oduya to sit. There's all interchangeable as far as I'm concerned. But I think that Vish is alittle better than those other 3. I'd probably put in Mottau too because he moves the puck better than the other two. Brookbank isn't good in his own zone and I think that Oduya is decent in the defensive zone, but he has been turning the puck over way too much.

You are required to have 2 goaltenders (MIN) and 18 skaters (MAX) on the game roster. Let's not get goofy here with the ideas fellas. :shakehead

You never go without a backup goalie - what would you do if Marty got hurt? Put Oduya in net since he's the most experienced at flopping on the ice? :biglaugh:

We can have Mottau in the net, he'll fall backwards and knock the net off it's moorings.

Even better, can we have Weekes play one of the D positions? I'm sure he's good at blocking shots :P

OOps forgot about Weekes. Do we really need him this game? Couldn't we go with 7 defensemen and not have a backup goalie for this game?

Wow, please tell me you're joking.

Wow, please tell me you're joking.

Well I didn't know the rules specified you needed 2 goalies to be in the lineup. Seriously though, Marty has only been pulled twice I think in the last 5 years right?

Well I didn't know the rules specified you needed 2 goalies to be in the lineup. Seriously though, Marty has only been pulled twice I think in the last 5 years right?

Uhh...no. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole. Stop, put the shovel down, and just sit on that stump over there until game time.

Uhh...no. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole. Stop, put the shovel down, and just sit on that stump over there until game time.

For real...

Uhh...no. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole. Stop, put the shovel down, and just sit on that stump over there until game time.

:biglaugh:

Uhh...no. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole. Stop, put the shovel down, and just sit on that stump over there until game time.

Bah, you have no imagination.

Looks like it's definite. (http://njmg.typepad.com/devilsblog/2007/11/greene-oduya-to.html)

Oh well. At least Sutter gives a good reason for it.

Looks like it's definite. (http://njmg.typepad.com/devilsblog/2007/11/greene-oduya-to.html)

Oh well. At least Sutter gives a good reason for it.

I don't mind that reasoning. I rescind my previous statements. I guess when it comes to younger guys (moreso Greene) that's something Sutter does know about. So maybe it is for the best, it's an out-of-conference game and I guess because of that it affords him the opportunity to hang out and maybe study a little bit.

I also like that Sutter pointed out Zubov as well on Dallas because he's easily one of the most underrated d-men in the game. We all know how good he is from being with NY for a while but he definitely doesn't get the acknowledgment he deserves around the league.

****, I'd love if Andy could become anything like Zubov.

Uhh...no. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole. Stop, put the shovel down, and just sit on that stump over there until game time.

:teach:

I don't agree with him often - but here we are in agreement.

Twice in 5 years? Without knowing or looking I'd say that number is more like 16. (counting 5 years of play - not lockout). There were some pretty good butt whoopin's over that span where it wasn't worth the risk of injury and better to rest him than play out a 3rd period without a hope of winning. In fact I seem to recall some games against Pittsburgh where both teams have chased the other netminder out.

:teach:

I don't agree with him often - but here we are in agreement.

Twice in 5 years? Without knowing or looking I'd say that number is more like 16. (counting 5 years of play - not lockout). There were some pretty good butt whoopin's over that span where it wasn't worth the risk of injury and better to rest him than play out a 3rd period without a hope of winning. In fact I seem to recall some games against Pittsburgh where both teams have chased the other netminder out.

I think he was pulled against Pitt twice last year, no? Maybe I'm confusing that with this years as well...but I remember last year he did get chased in Pittsburgh and he had to go sit away from the whole team with his dunce-cap on in the entrance/exit for the team. Then we played them again at home and shut them out.

But he's definitely been pulled more than that in 5 years. He is human after all.

I think he was pulled against Pitt twice last year, no? Maybe I'm confusing that with this years as well...but I remember last year he did get chased in Pittsburgh and he had to go sit away from the whole team with his dunce-cap on in the entrance/exit for the team. Then we played them again at home and shut them out.

But he's definitely been pulled more than that in 5 years. He is human after all.

Yeah that's what I was recalling too - twice against them alone and maybe once more somewhere else.

Yeah that's what I was recalling too - twice against them alone and maybe once more somewhere else.

yeah maybe that Ottawa game we got beat like 8-1 early on in the season.

Well...I don't like that Greene is out, but it's an argument I could buy. I haven't noticed Greene making any mistakes the last couple of games, and I remember him being in the top 3 rotation (with White and Martin) against Atlanta and Tampa Bay....so it's really hard to understand why he's sitting.

Greene is a young man and hopefully he takes the benching the right way and never looks back after tonight.

I guess that waiver pick-up in Brookbank really turned out well for this team. When the coach goes with him over some of the guys that were here before him, then he must be doing something right. I'm happy for the guy...

:teach:

I don't agree with him often - but here we are in agreement.

Twice in 5 years? Without knowing or looking I'd say that number is more like 16. (counting 5 years of play - not lockout). There were some pretty good butt whoopin's over that span where it wasn't worth the risk of injury and better to rest him than play out a 3rd period without a hope of winning. In fact I seem to recall some games against Pittsburgh where both teams have chased the other netminder out.

Oh I know, I was exaggerating on the fact that Marty does it all usually...

Seriously though I still can't imagine Greene sitting. We're gonna get a beating tonight by Dallas. I hope I'm wrong.

Oh I know, I was exaggerating on the fact that Marty does it all usually...

Seriously though I still can't imagine Greene sitting. We're gonna get a beating tonight by Dallas. I hope I'm wrong.

I can assure you that it if Dallas does give us a beating tonight, sitting Greene would have absolutely nothing to do with it.

I can assure you that it if Dallas does give us a beating tonight, sitting Greene would have absolutely nothing to do with it.

How can you be so sure in saying that?

I can assure you that it if Dallas does give us a beating tonight, sitting Greene would have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Nope...it'll be SUTTER's fault!! Right Jim?!?

How can you be so sure in saying that?

Are you serious? Since when did Greene become the backbone of our defense? We did fine without Paul Martin, we'll do fine without Greene. And again, even if we don't, Greene's absence will not make a difference. He's not Brodeur.

Are you serious? Since when did Greene become the backbone of our defense? We did fine without Paul Martin, we'll do fine without Greene. And again, even if we don't, Greene's absence will not make a difference. He's not Brodeur.

No, you're right, Greene is just one defenseman. As long as Oduya is not in the line up screwing up Greene doesn't need to be covering for him so I guess we will be ok as long as Vishnevski or Brookbank doesn't screw up. But I still think its a mistake. But it would be a good gauge to see what the team is like without greene.

First time in a while I actually agree with Sutters choice. Finally no Oduya.:handclap:

Greene has been pretty solid but from what we saw from him in the playoffs I thought he would have shown some more offense to his game.

Kind of off topic but after reading Gulitti's blog, do you guys think that Janssen is actually going to play when he's healthy?

First time in a while I actually agree with Sutters choice. Finally no Oduya.:handclap:

Greene has been pretty solid but from what we saw from him in the playoffs I thought he would have shown some more offense to his game.

Kind of off topic but after reading Gulitti's blog, do you guys think that Janssen is actually going to play when he's healthy?

Personally I don't think he is, but he seems to think so and he probably would know if he wasn't already so...I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

Kind of off topic but after reading Gulitti's blog, do you guys think that Janssen is actually going to play when he's healthy?

Hell no. Janssen is an awesome skater but the minute his hands are on a hockey stick he screws up. I think its probably because its usually swollen from punching someone.

Personally I don't think he is, but he seems to think so and he probably would know if he wasn't already so...I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

I hope not. I want to see guys play who actually know that there's a puck out on the ice. We have enough fighters who can play. We don't need Cam.

Kind of off topic but after reading Gulitti's blog, do you guys think that Janssen is actually going to play when he's healthy?

I think he'll see spot duty, but will be a healthy scratch in most games.

First time in a while I actually agree with Sutters choice. Finally no Oduya.:handclap:


With Oduya out of the lineup, who's responsibility is it coat the ice with enough timber to host a NBA game? :sarcasm:

Personally I don't think he is, but he seems to think so and he probably would know if he wasn't already so...I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

Didn't someone say he looked a lot better in preseason? That he was actually creating plays and had a couple of scoring chances himself. Maybe Cam did some conditioning over the offseason and improved.

Hell no. Janssen is an awesome skater but the minute his hands are on a hockey stick he screws up. I think its probably because its usually swollen from punching someone.

Funny. Some people say that about Oduya. If Mr. Give-The-Puck-Away-To-The-Other-Team's-Star-Player has a spot, why can't Janssen?
Of course, we already have Asham and Clarkson, and Oduya will hopefully be long gone before Janssen can come back.

Didn't someone say he looked a lot better in preseason? That he was actually creating plays and had a couple of scoring chances himself. Maybe Cam did some conditioning over the offseason and improved.

I'll believe it when I see it. Rupp is alot better than Cam and he's not exactly that great either. I think our team has enough grit already without needing enforcers.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing Cam punching Avery's lights out.

I'll believe it when I see it. Rupp is alot better than Cam and he's not exactly that great either. I think our team has enough grit already without needing enforcers.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing Cam punching Avery's lights out.

I think Cam when he comes back should only be put in if we're really struggling. He's a guy who can get the team going. I believe that he was one of the big reasons for "The streak" two years ago. I forgot who he fought with from Ottawa, but in that game, he really got the team going.

I think Cam when he comes back should only be put in if we're really struggling. He's a guy who can get the team going. I believe that he was one of the big reasons for "The streak" two years ago. I forgot who he fought with from Ottawa, but in that game, he really got the team going.

Only time I would like to see Cam in the lineup is when we play the Flyers so Cam could rough up their bullies a little. Other than that, theres really no reason for him to be there. He's got heart and everything but he just doesn't seem to have an instinct for the net.

Only time I would like to see Cam in the lineup is when we play the Flyers so Cam could rough up their bullies a little. Other than that, theres really no reason for him to be there. He's got heart and everything but he just doesn't seem to have an instinct for the net.

Speaking of the Flyers, did you see that hit on Alberts from Boston by Hartnell?Vicious. The Flyers are REALLY giving themselves a bad name, if their rep could get any worse.

Found this in the comments section of Gulitti's blog on this topic and thought folks would find it interesting here. Don't hear much talk of SABR Metrics in hockey, so I found the relative numbers pretty fascinating...

By the "numbers"...

Andy Greene has been the Devils' second best defenseman this season. He leads the team in minutes played, and is second on the team in ATOI. He has the best even strength expected goal differential ON THE TEAM - better than Gionta, better than Parise, better than P-Mart. He's been the best penalty killer in terms of expected goals allowed. His power play expected goals is fourth on the team amongst defensemen.

"By the numbers", Vishnevski and Mottau have been the Devils' worst defensemen, and it's not really close. Vishnevski's play has been below replacement level. While Oduya hasn't been spectacular, his power play time has actually been fairly productive and overall he's been a good bit better than either Vishnevski or Mottau. The hockey sabr guys estimate Oduya's current value has being over $1M higher than Vishnevski. And Greene's value has been about $2.5M higher.

I don't know what "numbers" Sutter is looking at, but I'm actually a bit surprised that his ignorance is actually leading to detrimental personnel playing time decisions. While the NHL is generally still in the dark ages on statistics, I kinda always figured Lou for being a step ahead of the pack (a la Billy Beane a few years ago). He always seems to "beat the market" by finding under-valued players, and letting other teams sign over-valued ones.

Of course, maybe this decision has nothing to do with Lou.

Still think Mottau has elevated his game a ton as of late... But this confirms what my eyes have been telling me, namely that Vish is a fairly worthless P.O.S., perhaps our worst D man all told, especially dollar for dollar.

Funny. Some people say that about Oduya. If Mr. Give-The-Puck-Away-To-The-Other-Team's-Star-Player has a spot, why can't Janssen?
Of course, we already have Asham and Clarkson, and Oduya will hopefully be long gone before Janssen can come back.

If it were up to me, Oduya and Janssen would be in a trade to a team that needs them for a 5th round pick...

Seriously. 1 goal in 95 games played. Do you know of anyone else in the NHL that is that bad?

Speaking of the Flyers, did you see that hit on Alberts from Boston by Hartnell?Vicious. The Flyers are REALLY giving themselves a bad name, if their rep could get any worse.

That was the third dirty hit that game. They had another hit from behind on Chara about 5 minutes before that too but luckily he is just so honk'in big he kept himself out of the boards.

I tell you they are going from Broad Street Bullies to Boarding Street Bullies

Oduya and Mottau would be the ones to be scratched for tonight's game if Sutter was smart.

Oh no end of the world our rookie defenseman is sitting for one whole game oh God what are we gonna do where's Lou Sutter is stupid blah blah!

Jesus H guys, it's one game. Dude can get a break. There's what, 60ish games left in the season? I don't exactly think Andy Greene is making/breaking this team this year. If this happens more often, maybe you have cause to run around like decapitated chickens cursing at God. But as of right now, I don't think I've ever seen such a pitiful display of couch-coaching know-nothings like I've seen in this thread. If it was up to this board's sentiment Viuhkola would be centering our first line. However, Sutter knows better. My jury is still out on him, but I trust him enough, especially if The Lou trusts him this much.
To summarize: calm down, it's one game.

This is a good thing.

Going with six defensemen, and without our 2nd highest TOI on the team, this means White will probably see +20 mins tonight, which is excellent news.

Oduya and Mottau would be the ones to be scratched for tonight's game if Sutter was smart.

is it confirmed?

Nope...it'll be SUTTER's fault!! Right Jim?!?

Nope....I have no Problem whatsoever with day-to-day decisions of the coach....Especially a new coach, I'm willing to give him a chance there....


The problem I have with the coach is the philosophy (or lack thereof), the disorganized look to the team, the lack of discipline, and the lack of positioning.

But the last 5 games has given me some hope.

Kind of off topic but after reading Gulitti's blog, do you guys think that Janssen is actually going to play when he's healthy?[/QUOTE]

A friend of mine ran into Cam, Asham and Martin at a bar last night- supposedly he told him that he'll be ready to go in 2 weeks, so lets see...

personally, I think the intangibles he brings to the team are valuable enough to play him. He brings energy and grit every game, I personally think that rubs off on the entire team and counterbalances the lack of offensive production.

Oduya and Mottau would be the ones to be scratched for tonight's game if Sutter was smart.

Well Oduya and Greene are scratched so are you implying that you are smarter than Sutter?

P.S. I saw some lights out on the Mulberry side of the building.

I think the intangibles he brings to the team (Janssen) are valuable enough to play him. He brings energy and grit every game, I personally think that rubs off on the entire team and counterbalances the lack of offensive production.

Good point but Clarkson brings the same with much more skill.

Hey guys, regardless of who's in the lineup tonite, it's a good thing that we have a bunch of healthy players that we can choose from.

Kind of off topic but after reading Gulitti's blog, do you guys think that Janssen is actually going to play when he's healthy?

A friend of mine ran into Cam, Asham and Martin at a bar last night- supposedly he told him that he'll be ready to go in 2 weeks, so lets see...

personally, I think the intangibles he brings to the team are valuable enough to play him. He brings energy and grit every game, I personally think that rubs off on the entire team and counterbalances the lack of offensive production.

Yeah. what bar?

If it were up to me, Oduya and Janssen would be in a trade to a team that needs them for a 5th round pick...

Seriously. 1 goal in 95 games played. Do you know of anyone else in the NHL that is that bad?

He's not on the ice to score goals.

Yeah. what bar?

I believe it was called Rock Cellar or something similar to that. Honestly, I don't remember.

I agree with the previous point that Clarkson is a much better player all around- in terms of offensive and defensive skill. However...in a game like tonights- who would I personally rather have playing? Cam. We look like we could use a spark out there, and I think he provides it.

9 games out of 10, I take Clarkson and I don't think twice about it. This is just my humble opinion, of course.

I believe it was called Rock Cellar or something similar to that. Honestly, I don't remember.

I agree with the previous point that Clarkson is a much better player all around- in terms of offensive and defensive skill. However...in a game like tonights- who would I personally rather have playing? Cam. We look like we could use a spark out there, and I think he provides it.

9 games out of 10, I take Clarkson and I don't think twice about it. This is just my humble opinion, of course.

If we had Cam out there tonight instead of Clarkson, we would not have had that first goal that sparked the comeback.

I believe it was called Rock Cellar or something similar to that. Honestly, I don't remember.

I agree with the previous point that Clarkson is a much better player all around- in terms of offensive and defensive skill. However...in a game like tonights- who would I personally rather have playing? Cam. We look like we could use a spark out there, and I think he provides it.

9 games out of 10, I take Clarkson and I don't think twice about it. This is just my humble opinion, of course.

Since both guys fight, agitate and gets big hits, I think the guy that plays 10+ minutes more brings more "spark" than the guy who gets a handful of shifts. Cam is not in Clarkson's league, if he plays Pelley or perhaps Asham will sit out. Honestly, I like the guy but don't think the team is any worse without him. The best thing about Cam being able to play is that it lessens the chance that I'll have to see Rupp getting winded from trying to keep up with the speed of the NHL while being completely useless.

Since both guys fight, agitate and gets big hits, I think the guy that plays 10+ minutes more brings more "spark" than the guy who gets a handful of shifts. Cam is not in Clarkson's league, if he plays Pelley or perhaps Asham will sit out. Honestly, I like the guy but don't think the team is any worse without him. The best thing about Cam being able to play is that it lessens the chance that I'll have to see Rupp getting winded from trying to keep up with the speed of the NHL while being completely useless.

Asham or Pelley sitting would be even worse. Both are miles ahead of Cam in the scoring department. I wouldn't mind Cam replacing Rupp though, if only to wear down the opponent.

But given the limited size of our lineup I rather see more talented guys out there.

We also have a few very talented Rookies in lowell that can easily make the 4th line.

I believe it was called Rock Cellar or something similar to that. Honestly, I don't remember.

I agree with the previous point that Clarkson is a much better player all around- in terms of offensive and defensive skill. However...in a game like tonights- who would I personally rather have playing? Cam. We look like we could use a spark out there, and I think he provides it.

9 games out of 10, I take Clarkson and I don't think twice about it. This is just my humble opinion, of course.

That's the old Rock Bottom. Marty hangs out there all the time, he's great friends with the owner, and he uses the owner as his "body guard" when he's doing signings and stuff.

Since both guys fight, agitate and gets big hits, I think the guy that plays 10+ minutes more brings more "spark" than the guy who gets a handful of shifts. Cam is not in Clarkson's league, if he plays Pelley or perhaps Asham will sit out. Honestly, I like the guy but don't think the team is any worse without him. The best thing about Cam being able to play is that it lessens the chance that I'll have to see Rupp getting winded from trying to keep up with the speed of the NHL while being completely useless.

The AHL? Lowell say hello to your new enforcer, Cam say hello to Lowell. Clarkie is a third liner, Cam a fifth liner.

And Asham and Pelley eat Cam for breakfast. Only Mike "Mr. Press Box" Rupp excites me less out of our entire line-up, including all the D men that have played this year.

The AHL? Lowell say hello to your new enforcer, Cam say hello to Lowell. Clarkie is a third liner, Cam a fifth liner.

And Asham and Pelley eat Cam for breakfast. Only Mike "Mr. Press Box" Rupp excites me less out of our entire line-up, including all the D men that have played this year.

Yet even Rupp had a great season back in 2003 when he was with Fresen. I just can't see any reason to keep Cam other than he's a fan favorite(not mine though).