Greatest ever - Brodeur or Roy?

Interesting article

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/11362-THNcom-Blog-Greatest-ever-Brodeur-or-Roy.html


If Brodeur plays until he’s 38 and maintains his career pace, he’ll retire with approximately 600 wins, about 50 more than Roy, the current leader. He should also be able to surpass Terry Sawchuk’s shutout mark of 103. All bets are off as far as awards, championships and all-star berths are concerned, but his body of work to this point shines mightily.

Yet the perception persists he still has to do more to eclipse Roy (and for some, Hasek and Sawchuk).

For many, it’s about Roy the playoff legend: Three Conn Smythe trophies and two heroic Stanley Cup performances for the Canadiens (1986 and 1993). In ’93, he went 10-1 in overtime in the post-season, a record that defies even the longest of odds. He had an astounding .690 winning percentage in playoff sudden death and 25 percent of his spring victories came in OT. At his height, Roy was magic.

There also persists a notion that Brodeur, as good as he is, has benefited from “Devils hockey” a system in which trapping, counter-punching and being ultra-responsible defensively have been paramount. In addition, he has played much of his career behind two of the greatest blueliners of our generation, Scott Niedermayer and Scott Stevens, which some observers hold against him. One of my colleagues went so far as to say that if the Devils had another “very good, but not spectacular” goalie in net the past 15 years, they still would have won their Cups.

And in the goalies’ home province, the debate apparently isn’t even close. “Ask anyone in Quebec,” says Chabot, “and they’ll pick Roy.”

We’d love to hear what you think. Should Brodeur be penalized for playing behind a good defense? At the end of his career, should his numbers be enough to make him No. 1? Or does the Legend of St. Patrick overshadow all?

Interesting article

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/11362-THNcom-Blog-Greatest-ever-Brodeur-or-Roy.html

So what if Marty played behind a good defensive team, Roy played for a freakin' all-star team in Montreal and even in Colorado. Like Bourque, Foote and Blake aren't a great back line.

Uh oh, the big debate begins...

I might be the biggest Brodeur fan out there and I wouldn't trade the guy for anything in the world, but to me it's all about playoff success and the awards that come after winning it all. Roy's three Conn Smythe trophies and his four Stanley Cups is something no one will ever come close to and that's what I think decides this debate.

Roy was just a playoff beast and a big-game goaltender. That he won three Smythes during his four Cups pretty much says it all.

Marty will probably have all the regular season records, but what Roy did during the playoffs is pretty amazing.

But if someone argues that Marty is the best of all time I won't argue with them, because Marty has a strong case for it too. I'm just saying that Roy's playoff success is something that is hard to top.

Um, well yes he did benefit from the Devils. His career stats may be slightly inflated for that reason.

However, that does not take away from the quality goaltender he is. Once the shot is made, someone has to make the save. Bad quality or not, we've all seen him steal games.

With the resume he has, you can't not be a Great goaltender.

Roy played behind great teams too. In Colorado he had Foote and Blake and Bourqe! (And Sakic and Forseberg and Hejduk when he was great). In Montreal he had Chelios in his prime, Robinson, Mats Naslund, Gainey, Carbonneau, Tremblay) in 86 alone. In '93 they had Chelios again, Corson and Damphouse I believe, Bellows scored 40, Kirk Muller, etc.)

I say that both benefited from good teams (Heck, they have to be good to win the cup).

I'll take Brodeur over many goalies. But not.... a handful of goalies who played w/o masks (Imagine how much better they could have been!). Hasek in his prime years (Slinky-man hybrid) and Roy... They're very close, but I just can't choose Marty over him

I love Marty, and an above-average goalie would not have won 3 cups (maybe 1 if it was a above-average goalie who was incredibly hot), but I definitely give the edge to Roy. Marty is still a top 5-8 goalie of all time and has been really consistent and had a really long peak. I'd put Hasek and Roy ahead of him, although with Hasek it's a little different because he was the most dominant goalie for about 7 years, but his career started very late and he has tailed off in the last few years because of his groin issues.

Marty's stock may rise as years go by and he is evaluated for what he did rather than who he played behind. The fact that he won the Vezina with an average D-corps has helped turn some opinions already.

Marty still has some very good company at the top...he's probably a tad behind Sawchuk and Hall and alongside Dryden and Plante. They're probably fairly interchangable. He still has a few years left...probably no cups but some excellent years for sure.

I might be the biggest Brodeur fan out there and I wouldn't trade the guy for anything in the world, but to me it's all about playoff success and the awards that come after winning it all. Roy's three Conn Smythe trophies and his four Stanley Cups is something no one will ever come close to and that's what I think decides this debate.

Roy was just a playoff beast and a big-game goaltender. That he won three Smythes during his four Cups pretty much says it all.

Marty will probably have all the regular season records, but what Roy did during the playoffs is pretty amazing.

But if someone argues that Marty is the best of all time I won't argue with them, because Marty has a strong case for it too. I'm just saying that Roy's playoff success is something that is hard to top.

Agreed. You're remembered mostly for your playoff performances and although I believe that Brodeur should have one Conn Smyth already (fu Gigure) Roy has an impressive postseason resume. Still, I think that if we surround Marty with enough quality talent in the next few years (top center and dman please?) we can make another run at the cup and hopefully he'll win a Conn Smythe. For right now Marty's number 2, but it's nothing to be ashamed about. Willie Mays isn't ashamed that he's considered the 2nd best baseball player of all time behind Babe Ruth.

So what if Marty played behind a good defensive team, Roy played for a freakin' all-star team in Montreal and even in Colorado. Like Bourque, Foote and Blake aren't a great back line.

I posted a reply on that article about the same thing. Its not like Roy didn't have a great defense. He also had several really great forwards. Brodeur is definately better than Roy by comparison.

Many brought up that Roy had the passion to win games. But I think Brodeur has that same winning spirit and thats why we see him win so often. Brodeur has to be one of the best stick handling goalies ever and his stats cannot reflect that. Those stick handling saves are not in the stats and have led to breakouts in the zone and eventual goals.

Some commented that if Roy had been in the era of shootouts he would have more wins. Great. The shootouts began only after the lockout. If roy had the same extra season that Brodeur had on shootouts, he would only have maybe as many as 15-20extra wins. Thats still not going to stop Brodeur from beating his record.

The fact is, Marty reached 500 wins much earlier than Roy and will get to at least 600 by the time he retires. He'll still have spent less time doing it if he retires at the same age Roy did.

I'm going to say if Marty can win one more cup before he retires, then I will consider him better than Roy.

marty has an olympic gold medal... just saying

While I already think he is better than Roy (I'd build my team around Marty long before Patrick "Trade me" Roy) - I think it will take Marty beating all the records before he earns that title as Best Ever to the media and fanbase in general. It might even take up to his Hall of Fame induction for many to accept this... as there just seems to be a cloud of resentment towards the Devils for many of their cups stemming from the 'trap' and defensive approach somehow not truly warranting the honor of other cup winners. While I obviously do not subscribe to this - it still seems to exist. I think you only have to ask the players facing Brodeur and Roy both in net [ask Wayne, Mario, Messier who frustrated them more 1 on 1] to find the true answer.

Short answer - yes, but not yet.

I posted a reply on that article about the same thing. Its not like Roy didn't have a great defense. He also had several really great forwards. Brodeur is definately better than Roy by comparison.

Many brought up that Roy had the passion to win games. But I think Brodeur has that same winning spirit and thats why we see him win so often. Brodeur has to be one of the best stick handling goalies ever and his stats cannot reflect that. Those stick handling saves are not in the stats and have led to breakouts in the zone and eventual goals.

Some commented that if Roy had been in the era of shootouts he would have more wins. Great. The shootouts began only after the lockout. If roy had the same extra season that Brodeur had on shootouts, he would only have maybe as many as 15-20extra wins. Thats still not going to stop Brodeur from beating his record.

The fact is, Marty reached 500 wins much earlier than Roy and will get to at least 600 by the time he retires. He'll still have spent less time doing it if he retires at the same age Roy did.

This is what frustrates me when people try to say anything about the shootouts...ROY DIDN'T MISS AN ENTIRE SEASON BECAUSE OF THE LOCKOUT! So, it does cancel out that supposed shootout advantage Brodeur has. Think about that, another 40+ wins easily and marty would be breaking the record in a weeks...

There is also no question that Brodeur was robbed of the conn smythe in 2003, he set the damn record for most shutouts in a playoff season, having 3 alone in the finals, and got screwed...not to mention he could have easily gotten it in 2000, and if they had won in 2001, he would have had it then too, so there are 3 conn smythes that easily could have gone his way. Fine, he didn't win them, but that doesn't automatically make him second.

I do believe the devils can win another cup within the next 3 years as long as they can get something going on defense. At least the younger players will gain experience and the entire team will have this puck-possession play down. I would love Marty to get the conn smythe monkey off his back, for he really wouldn't be missing anything on his resume, except a hart trophy for which he was screwed out of as usual by the media.

2001 SCF says it all. If NJ ever wins back-to-back Cups, this argument gets a little tougher. A Conn Smythe or two would also help Marty's case, but head-to-head when it mattered most on the ice, Roy was victorious. 2 more Cups, preferably consecutively, and least 1 Smythe before he retires and then we might consider Brodeur over Roy as having more post-season success. A Cup in his rookie year, '94 would have also helped Marty's cause. Parent's consecutive Cups and Conns are another measuring stick.

2001 SCF says it all. If NJ ever wins back-to-back Cups, this argument gets a little tougher. A Conn Smythe or two would also help Marty's case, but head-to-head when it mattered most on the ice, Roy was victorious. 2 more Cups, preferably consecutively, and least 1 Smythe before he retires and then we might consider Brodeur over Roy as having more post-season success. A Cup in his rookie year, '94 would have also helped Marty's cause. Parent's consecutive Cups and Conns are another measuring stick.

Marty does have a Conn Smythe for the 03 Cup run, it's just sitting in J.S Giguere's house right now.

Brodeur.

I think Brodeur is now, and when he does destroy all of Roy's records, he'll be even that much greater than him.

and this is coming from a Flyers fans, so I'm not being biased.

Marty does have a Conn Smythe for the 03 Cup run, it's just sitting in J.S Giguere's house right now.

I honestly think Marty's gaffe on Ozo's clearing attempt cost him that trophy. Trivial, I know, but that's what everyone remembers. That and the series going to a 7th game. I think Marty locks it up if NJ wins the series in 6 games. Giguere and his Ducks won the Smythe because they took the series to 7 games.

Marty does have a Conn Smythe for the 03 Cup run, it's just sitting in J.S Giguere's house right now.

Man he was so robbed of that one... You don't give Conn Smythe to a losing goalie. Thats just silly.

The 03' Conn Symthe should have been Niedermayer's, not Brodeur's. Just my opinion.

What if Brodeur had played for Montreal?

What if Brodeur had played for Montreal?

What if Roy had played for New Jersey?

To start, I am a Roy and Brodeur fan.

There is no doubt in my mind that Brodeur is statistically the greatest goalie ever. I think that in all honesty they are going to go down as 1 and 1a. Brodeur has all the records and is simply incredible, but people are always going to give a nod to Roy in the playoff books (and rightfully so). Roy's dramatics also helped give visibility to his playoff runs that a quiet Brodeur doesn't generate.

The Montreal teams, most certainly the 90's version, were not of the quality that Roy's Colorado teams were. There is no question that he had some good players in front of him so I write off any arguments that talk about the team, and even the system.

One thing the system does do is take some visibilty off of Brodeur in regards to his GAA. The 'team' gets a lot of credit for the low goals against and even the SO's where as when Roy got a SO, it was his and his alone because he played behind a high tempo offence.

Thinking back to Roy's cup runs and you remember things like Sakic saying they had 'figured him out', and the classic 'I have rings in my ears'. Roy generated a lot of visibility for himself. He carried all the media pressure so no one talked about anything other than him regardless of what Forsberg, Sakic, or Claude Lemieux were doing. When all people talk about is you, and then you win a cup, you win a Conn Smythe.

As for the Giguere win, keep in mind that Giguere was simply sick prior to the matchup versus Jersey. People handed him the Conn Smythe after the conference finals saying that if he won just a single game in the finals that it was his. Should Brodeur have won it? Yes. Why didn't he? He didn't grab peoples attention.


Oh, and as for the 'wins' thing and Brodeur doing it faster...lets also keep in mind that when Roy started goalies didn't play 70 games in a season. That wasn't a normal thing until a bit later on.

The 03' Conn Symthe should have been Niedermayer's, not Brodeur's. Just my opinion.

...or it could of been Jamie Langenbrunner's. All in all, that Conn Smythe trophy could of gone to a lot of people. The Devil's win that year was definately a collective team effort. Hell, you could of made an arguement for Jeff Friesen.

To add to that a bit...

Will Brodeur ever be able to get the 'playoff' nod taken away from Roy? Probably not. He's still 57 wins behind Roy all-time and his OT record (10-19) is a long long way's off of Roy's (40-18). That, and the 3 conn smythes.

To start, I am a Roy and Brodeur fan.

There is no doubt in my mind that Brodeur is statistically the greatest goalie ever. I think that in all honesty they are going to go down as 1 and 1a. Brodeur has all the records and is simply incredible, but people are always going to give a nod to Roy in the playoff books (and rightfully so). Roy's dramatics also helped give visibility to his playoff runs that a quiet Brodeur doesn't generate.

The Montreal teams, most certainly the 90's version, were not of the quality that Roy's Colorado teams were. There is no question that he had some good players in front of him so I write off any arguments that talk about the team, and even the system.

One thing the system does do is take some visibilty off of Brodeur in regards to his GAA. The 'team' gets a lot of credit for the low goals against and even the SO's where as when Roy got a SO, it was his and his alone because he played behind a high tempo offence.

Thinking back to Roy's cup runs and you remember things like Sakic saying they had 'figured him out', and the classic 'I have rings in my ears'. Roy generated a lot of visibility for himself. He carried all the media pressure so no one talked about anything other than him regardless of what Forsberg, Sakic, or Claude Lemieux were doing. When all people talk about is you, and then you win a cup, you win a Conn Smythe.

As for the Giguere win, keep in mind that Giguere was simply sick prior to the matchup versus Jersey. People handed him the Conn Smythe after the conference finals saying that if he won just a single game in the finals that it was his. Should Brodeur have won it? Yes. Why didn't he? He didn't grab peoples attention.


Oh, and as for the 'wins' thing and Brodeur doing it faster...lets also keep in mind that when Roy started goalies didn't play 70 games in a season. That wasn't a normal thing until a bit later on.

Nice post.

About Giguere, he came up 1 W shy of the Cup. Hextall, Brodeur's idol set the precedent for a Conn-winning Cup-losing keeper. I don't think he gets the Conn if he goes 4-2 in the last round. 2 wins short would not have been enough for the writers in my opinion. The Cinderella underdog Ducks vs. perennial playoff contenders angle also worked in Giguere's favor.

Marty's misplay sticks out more in people's minds than the number of shutouts he posted in post-season 2003.

Oh, and as for the 'wins' thing and Brodeur doing it faster...lets also keep in mind that when Roy started goalies didn't play 70 games in a season. That wasn't a normal thing until a bit later on.

Thats true to a point. However look at how many total games Roy played : 997 vs Brodeur's 894. Brodeur has 103 more games to catch up to Roy's record, which he should be able to do.

Thats true to a point. However look at how many total games Roy played : 997 vs Brodeur's 894. Brodeur has 103 more games to catch up to Roy's record, which he should be able to do.
55.3 win % for Roy, 56% for Brodeur.

Factor in a couple extra wins for Brodeur due to OTL's and that number is even closer. Close enough to not be a factor in seperating these two legends. In the end it will be games played that will be the determining factor and Roy played long enough that it just isn't enough to convince me to choose one over the other which only puts more emphasis on playoff success. Actually, I think you just convinced me that Roy is a distinct #1 that in the end will just have had a shorter career and more playoff success.

55.3 win % for Roy, 56% for Brodeur.

Factor in a couple extra wins for Brodeur due to OTL's and that number is even closer. Close enough to not be a factor in seperating these two legends. In the end it will be games played that will be the determining factor and Roy played long enough that it just isn't enough to convince me to choose one over the other which only puts more emphasis on playoff success. Actually, I think you just convinced me that Roy is a distinct #1 that in the end will just have had a shorter career and more playoff success.

how do you figure that? Roy retired at 38 so Brodeur still has 3 years left to get another few cups. I entirely think thats possible. Playoff wise Roy didn't have that much more success than Brodeur. He had 3 extra playoff seasons and only 1 more cup. That matches what Brodeur has left if we make the playoffs next 3 seasons and get at least 1 cup.

If anything the numbers would be stacked in Brodeur's favor. His 70+ games is the main reason the team went on to the playoffs. While Roy shared the honors with his backup goalie.

this reminds me of debating which truck is better - a Chevy or Ford pickup?

Both have 90% the same specifications, just they look different doing the same job. You can find equal number of fans of both models depending on personal taste and geography...

I like the demeanor and fun attitude of Marty any day over the less than approachable and gruff "Ru-aah" and I know you'd never see Marty walk off the bench and yell at Lou to trade him right now after giving up a bunch of soft goals.

That said - one of these trucks has been parked in the garage for good, let's wait until the other has gone through his final tank of gas before we try to finalize where each stands in both the record books and legendary category. I think there's alot of miles left before that happens ;)

: 4 more years chant :

how do you figure that? Roy retired at 38 so Brodeur still has 3 years left to get another few cups. I entirely think thats possible. Playoff wise Roy didn't have that much more success than Brodeur. He had 3 extra playoff seasons and only 1 more cup. That matches what Brodeur has left if we make the playoffs next 3 seasons and get at least 1 cup.

If anything the numbers would be stacked in Brodeur's favor. His 70+ games is the main reason the team went on to the playoffs. While Roy shared the honors with his backup goalie.
If he gets another couple cups, then sure...I don't forsee that at the moment, but could happen.

And it's not just the cup's, it's the OT wins, the total playoff wins, the conn smythes. The playoff dramatics.

As for getting to the playoffs, it was a different era. All teams shared their goaltending duties so there wasn't a need to play a starter 70 games.

Like I said, generally I believe at the end of the day it'll be 1 and 1a, but I don't forsee Brodeur being able to dethrone Roy as the playoff king.

The 03' Conn Symthe should have been Niedermayer's, not Brodeur's. Just my opinion.

I agree too. Ironic that Niedermayer won the Smythe last year, when many (including me) felt he didn't deserve it.

So what if Marty played behind a good defensive team, Roy played for a freakin' all-star team in Montreal and even in Colorado. Like Bourque, Foote and Blake aren't a great back line.

And Chelios and Robinson in 1986 in Montreal. The only questionable team Roy led to the Cup was in 1993.

Plus, Roy definitely benefitted from the fact that he DEMANDED A TRADE right when Montreal was beginning to decline. Like that didn't help his career numbers? It would be the same as if Brodeur demanded a trade after the drubbing that Pittsburgh gave us earlier this year, and then a strong defensive team like Ottawa picked him up.

Like I said, generally I believe at the end of the day it'll be 1 and 1a, but I don't forsee Brodeur being able to dethrone Roy as the playoff king.

Comparing playoffs, its true that Roy had more playoff games. But Brodeur had the slightly lower GAA in the playoffs. 1.93 vs Roy's 2.30. A better Save % of .920 vs .918.

You don't need overtime when you are ahead in the game. You also don't get overtime when you shut out the other team. Marty had more shutouts. 92 vs Roy's 66.

Comparing playoffs, its true that Roy had more playoff games. But Brodeur had the slightly lower GAA in the playoffs. 1.93 vs Roy's 2.30. A better Save % of .920 vs .918.

You don't need overtime when you are ahead in the game. You also don't get overtime when you shut out the other team. Marty had more shutouts. 92 vs Roy's 66.
Their save %'s are so close, Roy had more shots against and also played a number of years in a very different league than the one Brodeur has played in.

What the overtimes show is clutch. You can say all you want about not needing overtime, but the fact is that when you get there...the record shows that you'd be much better off with Roy.

Do we need another one of these threads, let Marty prove it with his stats. And he will.

The Chevy has better handling and will stay on the road, but if you do lose control and go off the road, the Ford is better for getting you out of the ditch. :huh:

Great logic.

I would say Roy regardless of whether or not Marty beats all of his stats and no I'm not giving an explanation.

On the other hand, I feel it's appropriate to ask, if Marty wins the Cup in 94 instead of letting Motteau score the way he did on him, does that change the whole dynamic of the debate?

Don't forget Marty's gold :teach:

Just playing devils advocate here... I think Brodeur is one of the all time greats and so is Roy. I'm not in any position to say who was better despite having watched them both for the majority of their careers.

how do you figure that? Roy retired at 38 so Brodeur still has 3 years left to get another few cups. I entirely think thats possible. Playoff wise Roy didn't have that much more success than Brodeur. He had 3 extra playoff seasons and only 1 more cup. That matches what Brodeur has left if we make the playoffs next 3 seasons and get at least 1 cup.

If anything the numbers would be stacked in Brodeur's favor. His 70+ games is the main reason the team went on to the playoffs. While Roy shared the honors with his backup goalie.

Roy won 40 games in 2000-01 while playing "only" 62 games. If he plays another 15 or so like Brodeur usually did, who is to say he wouldn't have won 49? Different teams, different philosophies. Purely hypothetical but just pointing it out.

And Chelios and Robinson in 1986 in Montreal. The only questionable team Roy led to the Cup was in 1993.

Plus, Roy definitely benefitted from the fact that he DEMANDED A TRADE right when Montreal was beginning to decline. Like that didn't help his career numbers? It would be the same as if Brodeur demanded a trade after the drubbing that Pittsburgh gave us earlier this year, and then a strong defensive team like Ottawa picked him up.

In 1986, Roy was a 20 year old rookie. The fact that he backstopped a "loaded" team shouldn't matter too much. He still had to get the job done. If a rookie won cups with Edmonton it still would have been impressive. He also demanded the trade because he felt disrespected by the team. Why leave him in and embarrass him? He was obviously off that day so pull him. Marty let up 5 goals and was pulled in the game you mention. Roy was left in until he had let up 9 by the second period. 9 GOALS! They lost 11-1. You are not in that game at all and there is no need to have him still in there. Get him out at 7 at the very latest. I would probably have him out at 5 or 6. There was no coming back from that. You don't leave your star goalie in to take that punishment. You think Marty would be happy if he was left in after giving up that many? Think about it, these guys have a lot of pride in themselves.

Don't forget Marty's gold :teach:

Good call.


(Great avatar and comment) :biglaugh:

Their save %'s are so close, Roy had more shots against and also played a number of years in a very different league than the one Brodeur has played in.

What the overtimes show is clutch. You can say all you want about not needing overtime, but the fact is that when you get there...the record shows that you'd be much better off with Roy.

I think shutouts in the playoffs speak more about being Clutch than overtime wins. But more so is a game winning goal during the playoffs, which Marty pulled off.

Also I'm not arguing here that Brodeur is miles better than Roy, I'm saying that they are about the same now, but by the end of Brodeur's he'll have better numbers and will be #1.

Does anyone know how many points Marty has?

Don't forget Marty's gold :teach:

Your avatar looks strikingly resemblant to this:

http://www.skatetown-roseville.com/sled/images/Sled-Hockey-Roseville.jpg

Your avatar looks strikingly resemblant to this:

http://www.skatetown-roseville.com/sled/images/Sled-Hockey-Roseville.jpg

... :whaaa?:

Not going to touch this one. :sarcasm:

Your avatar looks strikingly resemblant to this:

http://www.skatetown-roseville.com/sled/images/Sled-Hockey-Roseville.jpg

Ouch. And I thought I was too mean to Oduya...

Right now I would have to say Roy by a slim margin. When it is all said and done though with Brodeur he will be the best ever. Brodeur will brake most or all of Roy's records when it is all said and done with.

I want Brodeur to win another cup.

I'm a Devils fan, but much more of a Brodeur fan, and I would hope that at some point he might consider leaving New Jersey (blasphemy I know) to take one last shot at another cup.

I'm a Devils fan, but much more of a Brodeur fan, and I would hope that at some point he might consider leaving New Jersey (blasphemy I know) to take one last shot at another cup.

Brodeur, and the Devils, have a very good chance of winning another cup within the next 3 years.

I'll take Dryden, Hasek, Sawchuck and Hall over both.

I'll take Dryden, Hasek, Sawchuck and Hall over both.



:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:


:shakehead


Psst.....Brodeur has them all beat.

Brodeur, and the Devils, have a very good chance of winning another cup within the next 3 years.

Don't get me wrong, I mean at the very end of his career, I see him going for more than 3 years personally.

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:


:shakehead


Psst.....Brodeur has them all beat.

In what? Numbers?

Hall played 502 straight games and has 7 first team all-star considerations (most in history for both counts as a goaltender). He also was one of the first strictly butterfly goalies.

Dryden retired in his prime after only 7 years. Guess how many Cups? 6. Know how many Vezinas? Guessing from your laughter, I'd say no. But I'll tell ya! He's got 5 of them. That's 6 Cups and 5 Vezinas as well as a Conn Smythe in only 7 years.

Hasek has 6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, and 2 Harts.

Sawchuck was a 3 time Vezina and 3 time Cup winner. Also holds the shut-out record.

The only one that Brodeur really has beat is Glenn Hall (who is just a guy I feel is RIDICULOUSLY underrated).

Maybe you might not want to laugh next time at a legitimate answer with legitimate points.

I'd wait until Brodeur's career is over before making a final decision. Even then, it would be extremely close. Can't really complain about either on of these goaltenders.

I don't know how some can define a "best ever" in any sport when the game is different during the times they were around

Roy...he beat Marty when it mattered on the worse team.

In what? Numbers?

Hall played 502 straight games and has 7 first team all-star considerations (most in history for both counts as a goaltender). He also was one of the first strictly butterfly goalies.

Dryden retired in his prime after only 7 years. Guess how many Cups? 6. Know how many Vezinas? Guessing from your laughter, I'd say no. But I'll tell ya! He's got 5 of them. That's 6 Cups and 5 Vezinas as well as a Conn Smythe in only 7 years.

Hasek has 6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, and 2 Harts.

Sawchuck was a 3 time Vezina and 3 time Cup winner. Also holds the shut-out record.

The only one that Brodeur really has beat is Glenn Hall (who is just a guy I feel is RIDICULOUSLY underrated).

Maybe you might not want to laugh next time at a legitimate answer with legitimate points.
Dryden was not better then Roy or Brodeur....far from it....There were games where Montreal didn't need a goaltender....Dryden even said when he was playing his worst Montreal still won.

Dryden was not better then Roy or Brodeur....far from it....There were games where Montreal didn't need a goaltender....Dryden even said when he was playing his worst Montreal still won.

I take that as Dryden being modest. What was he supposed to say? That's giving credit to you teammates.

Sports Illustrated also lists Dryden at #1. The numbers simply speak for themselves. BTW, while I realize that those Montreal teams were so much better than the Devils Cup teams, the same argument was used to discount Brodeur's achievements. Shows you that those kind of words have been around a lot longer than the 90s/2000s ;)

One name I forgot to mention is Plante. Don't know why I forgot him.

SI has Brodeur at 6th and 7th, respectively. Shows Hells that they are at least comparable ;)

I don't know how you some can define a "best ever" in any sport when the game is different during the times they were around
Yeah this is very true. The only one that I think you can really do that for was Gretz. And that's only because his owned a billion records and owned them by such a huge margin it's silly.

I take that as Dryden being modest. What was he supposed to say? That's giving credit to you teammates.

Sports Illustrated also lists Dryden at #1. The numbers simply speak for themselves. BTW, while I realize that those Montreal teams were so much better than the Devils Cup teams, the same argument was used to discount Brodeur's achievements. Shows you that those kind of words have been around a lot longer than the 90s/2000s ;)

One name I forgot to mention is Plante. Don't know why I forgot him.

SI has Brodeur at 6th and 7th, respectively. Shows Hells that they are at least comparable ;)
You give SI any sort of credit? Hell in general you give History a little too much credit. The best teams were the best by a lot and the poor teams were pretty trashy. It would be the equivilent of NJ playing Hamilton Bulldogs about 15 times a year. Brodeur would have a 1.3 GAA or something along those lines.

Great goalies dont play on bad teams! Great goalies play on great teams for long periods of time thats what makes them great. I'll never understand the great defence argument for brodeur. If roy didn't have that killer offence and defence in front of him he would have lost many more games.

You give SI any sort of credit? Hell in general you give History a little too much credit. The best teams were the best by a lot and the poor teams were pretty trashy. It would be the equivilent of NJ playing Hamilton Bulldogs about 15 times a year. Brodeur would have a 1.3 GAA or something along those lines.

Your argument really goes for Dryden, dude. You're correct in that the "best teams were the best".

Meaning that to win a Cup back then would be a hell of a lot harder since the team you're facing in the final is REALLY ****ing good. It makes Dryden's achievements even better looking.

Great goalies dont play on bad teams! Great goalies play on great teams for long periods of time thats what makes them great. I'll never understand the great defence argument for brodeur. If roy didn't have that killer offence and defence in front of him he would have lost many more games.

I agree completely. I am not taking anything away from Roy but seriously he played with some GREAT players during his time. Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Adam Foote, Sandis Ozolinch, & Ray Bourque.. You cant say Broduer was only good because of Scott Stevens and Scott Neidemeyer. Thats NOT FAIR. Look on youtube and view some of marty high light reels...its pretty unbeilavable stuff. Plus this debate is very premeditated being that Marty's career isnt even near DONE!

If we didn't draft Marty, would the Devils even still be in NJ today?

In what? Numbers?

Hall played 502 straight games and has 7 first team all-star considerations (most in history for both counts as a goaltender). He also was one of the first strictly butterfly goalies.

Dryden retired in his prime after only 7 years. Guess how many Cups? 6. Know how many Vezinas? Guessing from your laughter, I'd say no. But I'll tell ya! He's got 5 of them. That's 6 Cups and 5 Vezinas as well as a Conn Smythe in only 7 years.

Hasek has 6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, and 2 Harts.

Sawchuck was a 3 time Vezina and 3 time Cup winner. Also holds the shut-out record.

The only one that Brodeur really has beat is Glenn Hall (who is just a guy I feel is RIDICULOUSLY underrated).

Maybe you might not want to laugh next time at a legitimate answer with legitimate points.
I'm guessing awards mean different things then actual stats because these goalies were basically dominating since goalies weren't as good back then but Brodeur had to endure a era with other great goalies.

In what? Numbers?

Hall played 502 straight games and has 7 first team all-star considerations (most in history for both counts as a goaltender). He also was one of the first strictly butterfly goalies.

Dryden retired in his prime after only 7 years. Guess how many Cups? 6. Know how many Vezinas? Guessing from your laughter, I'd say no. But I'll tell ya! He's got 5 of them. That's 6 Cups and 5 Vezinas as well as a Conn Smythe in only 7 years.

Hasek has 6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, and 2 Harts.

Sawchuck was a 3 time Vezina and 3 time Cup winner. Also holds the shut-out record.

The only one that Brodeur really has beat is Glenn Hall (who is just a guy I feel is RIDICULOUSLY underrated).

Maybe you might not want to laugh next time at a legitimate answer with legitimate points.

In reality, i know this argument would change had the Rangers signed or drafted Broduer!

In reality, i know this argument would change had the Rangers signed or drafted Broduer!

But it would have never happened because at that time NY was too busy trying to become the New York Oilers.

In what? Numbers?

Hall played 502 straight games and has 7 first team all-star considerations (most in history for both counts as a goaltender). He also was one of the first strictly butterfly goalies.

Dryden retired in his prime after only 7 years. Guess how many Cups? 6. Know how many Vezinas? Guessing from your laughter, I'd say no. But I'll tell ya! He's got 5 of them. That's 6 Cups and 5 Vezinas as well as a Conn Smythe in only 7 years.

Hasek has 6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, and 2 Harts.

Sawchuck was a 3 time Vezina and 3 time Cup winner. Also holds the shut-out record.

The only one that Brodeur really has beat is Glenn Hall (who is just a guy I feel is RIDICULOUSLY underrated).

Maybe you might not want to laugh next time at a legitimate answer with legitimate points.
I believe that Brodeur is somewhere between 7-10 in terms of all-time goalies, but the Vezina trophy comparison is not a good one. Until 1981-82, the trophy was awarded to the goalie on the team allowing the fewest number of goals in a season, which is now the Jennings trophy. Brodeur has 4 Jennings trophies. You could probably make a case for Brodeur over Sawchuk, who actually has 4 Vezinas (in 65 he and Johnny Bower split playing time, Sawchuk with 36 starts and Bower with 34), and has a shutout record that has a good chance of being toppled by Brodeur.

But it would have never happened because at that time NY was too busy trying to become the New York Oilers.

Haha uh oh

My problem with the whole goalie argument is that goalies benefit and are hindered by the team around them. I personally don't think Brodeur has ever been pushed to his limit. I think he could possible do a lot better and show up a lot better if he were put in a position that, say, Hasek was in Buffalo. I don't know if Brodeur would have done as well as Hasek did in Buffalo, but I also don't know that he wouldn't have done better. I think Brodeur would have won the Cup playing on the teams Roy did. I also think Roy would have won in Brodeur's shoes. And I also think the '93 team being "not so good" is a farce. If I recall correctly, they never had to play a team better than them in the standings except for the 1st round vs. Quebec, who were a whole 2 points better in the standings, despite one less win. The Penguins, the best team in the league lost to the overachieving Islanders. The team from the West was stinkin' average LA. Roy certainly held up his end, but I think Brodeur would have done just as well. I don't have any reason to believe he wouldn't.

Personally I would rather have Brodeur than Roy because of his attitude. Roy certainly could will a win, but he could also get rattled easily. I rarely, if ever see Brodeur get rattled, and when I am playing in front of a goalie, I sure as heck want a goalie with an even temper than one who might go nuts.

My problem with the whole goalie argument is that goalies benefit and are hindered by the team around them. I personally don't think Brodeur has ever been pushed to his limit. I think he could possible do a lot better and show up a lot better if he were put in a position that, say, Hasek was in Buffalo. I don't know if Brodeur would have done as well as Hasek did in Buffalo, but I also don't know that he wouldn't have done better. I think Brodeur would have won the Cup playing on the teams Roy did. I also think Roy would have won in Brodeur's shoes. And I also think the '93 team being "not so good" is a farce. If I recall correctly, they never had to play a team better than them in the standings except for the 1st round vs. Quebec, who were a whole 2 points better in the standings, despite one less win. The Penguins, the best team in the league lost to the overachieving Islanders. The team from the West was stinkin' average LA. Roy certainly held up his end, but I think Brodeur would have done just as well. I don't have any reason to believe he wouldn't.

Personally I would rather have Brodeur than Roy because of his attitude. Roy certainly could will a win, but he could also get rattled easily. I rarely, if ever see Brodeur get rattled, and when I am playing in front of a goalie, I sure as heck want a goalie with an even temper than one who might go nuts.

Isn't that right now?

Isn't that right now?

Haha, well, much closer to Hasek's situation than Brodeur's back in the late 90's. I still have confidence in the Devil's coaching to take pressure off Brodeur, at least eventually. I'll wait til the end of the season to see if he is continually left out to dry.

Brodeur will likely rewrite the goaltending record-book like Gretzky did to the scoring record-book. All-time wins and shutouts are the two most prestigious of goaltending records.

I was just looking at this NHL.com history page yesterday, "A six pack for the ages (http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=279287)," by Robert Picarella. Roy is the selection as goaltender on the all-time team. Picarella mentions that Roy holds both the regular-season and playoffs record for wins. It would be difficult for Marty Brodeur to win 57 more playoff games, but he win likely surpass the combined total.

Also, there was a poll on TSN.ca last year that ranked Roy's 551 career wins as his greatest accomplishment.

One thing is for certain when arguing about who is the greatest goaltender of all-time between Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy. We have come a long way from arguing about who was better between Martin Brodeur and Mike Richter.

To start, I am a Roy and Brodeur fan.

There is no doubt in my mind that Brodeur is statistically the greatest goalie ever. I think that in all honesty they are going to go down as 1 and 1a. Brodeur has all the records and is simply incredible, but people are always going to give a nod to Roy in the playoff books (and rightfully so). Roy's dramatics also helped give visibility to his playoff runs that a quiet Brodeur doesn't generate.

The Montreal teams, most certainly the 90's version, were not of the quality that Roy's Colorado teams were. There is no question that he had some good players in front of him so I write off any arguments that talk about the team, and even the system.

One thing the system does do is take some visibilty off of Brodeur in regards to his GAA. The 'team' gets a lot of credit for the low goals against and even the SO's where as when Roy got a SO, it was his and his alone because he played behind a high tempo offence.

Thinking back to Roy's cup runs and you remember things like Sakic saying they had 'figured him out', and the classic 'I have rings in my ears'. Roy generated a lot of visibility for himself. He carried all the media pressure so no one talked about anything other than him regardless of what Forsberg, Sakic, or Claude Lemieux were doing. When all people talk about is you, and then you win a cup, you win a Conn Smythe.

As for the Giguere win, keep in mind that Giguere was simply sick prior to the matchup versus Jersey. People handed him the Conn Smythe after the conference finals saying that if he won just a single game in the finals that it was his. Should Brodeur have won it? Yes. Why didn't he? He didn't grab peoples attention.


Oh, and as for the 'wins' thing and Brodeur doing it faster...lets also keep in mind that when Roy started goalies didn't play 70 games in a season. That wasn't a normal thing until a bit later on.
roy was never a workhorse, with him it got to the point where he would go to the COACH and tell him when he wanted to play and when he wanted to rest. he usually took 20 or so games off each regular season

roy was never a workhorse, with him it got to the point where he would go to the COACH and tell him when he wanted to play and when he wanted to rest. he usually took 20 or so games off each regular season

Brodeur is the same way. Or at least he was until this year.

Brodeur will likely rewrite the goaltending record-book like Gretzky did to the scoring record-book. All-time wins and shutouts are the two most prestigious of goaltending records.

I was just looking at this NHL.com history page yesterday, "A six pack for the ages (http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=279287)," by Robert Picarella. Roy is the selection as goaltender on the all-time team. Picarella mentions that Roy holds both the regular-season and playoffs record for wins. It would be difficult for Marty Brodeur to win 57 more playoff games, but he win likely surpass the combined total.

Also, there was a poll on TSN.ca last year that ranked Roy's 551 career wins as his greatest accomplishment.

One thing is for certain when arguing about who is the greatest goaltender of all-time between Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy. We have come a long way from arguing about who was better between Martin Brodeur and Mike Richter.

Over 3 Conn Smythes?

I'll take Dryden, Hasek, Sawchuck and Hall over both.

I can't comment on Dryden, Sawchuck, or Hall because I never saw them play except for the odd old footage. Much like you, I'd imagine. ;)

Personally, I'd take both Brodeur and Roy over Hasek. Hasek, at his best, was the best of the three, but Brodeur and especially Roy were able to play better when the games mattered most.

The thing with the whole Brodeur/Roy argument, and really about any goaltender comparison, is that so much of it is simply based on opinion. You can throw in the wins, goals against average, save percentage, shutouts, etc. and it still all boils down to how people interpret those stats among all the other aspects of a player.

If you're talking the most complete goaltender, I'd go with Brodeur. Not only can he make the clutch save, not only has he won a lot of games, but he helped change the game with his puckhandling abilities. I know other goalies did it before him, but not to the effectiveness that Brodeur did. Hell, the NHL put in a rule specifically to limit goalies like Brodeur who were so effective at handling the puck. Granted, the argument could be made that Roy did with the butterfly style what Brodeur has done with puckhandling, so let's call them even there.

Something that I personally throw into the discussion is the class and loyalty Brodeur has shown throughout his career. Nobody would have blamed him if he'd asked to be the highest paid goalie in the league, but he didn't. He could have decided to test free agency after winning a couple Cups with the Devils, but he didn't. He's negotiated almost all of his contracts personally with Lou, he's taken less money than he could get elsewhere, and he's never complained about his place in the franchise. He's been the perfect example of a team player and has been key to making the New Jersey Devils the franchise they've been over the last 10-15 years. Marty Brodeur is the New Jersey Devils, and probably will be a long time after he retires. Can you say the same for Roy?

In the end I can't really argue with anybody who says they think Roy is the greatest of all time, but by the same token I think it's hard to say that Brodeur doesn't have as good of a case as Roy or a couple others. It really comes down to a personal choice, and being a Devils and Brodeur fan, I'm obviously going to take him over anybody else.;)

as far as Roy's playoff success... he didn't play 70+ games that season, so he was fresh for the playoff run. just sayin'

Still not sure if Marty is better. It'll all come down into play at the end of his career

I take that as Dryden being modest. What was he supposed to say? That's giving credit to you teammates.

Sports Illustrated also lists Dryden at #1. The numbers simply speak for themselves. BTW, while I realize that those Montreal teams were so much better than the Devils Cup teams, the same argument was used to discount Brodeur's achievements. Shows you that those kind of words have been around a lot longer than the 90s/2000s ;)

One name I forgot to mention is Plante. Don't know why I forgot him.

SI has Brodeur at 6th and 7th, respectively. Shows Hells that they are at least comparable ;)
numbers never speak for themsleves. Too many un-accounted variables...and some are unmeasurable. Thus the debate.

as far as Roy's playoff success... he didn't play 70+ games that season, so he was fresh for the playoff run. just sayin'

Still not sure if Marty is better. It'll all come down into play at the end of his career
That could easily be seen as a knock against Brodeur and a nod for Roy. I don't neccessarily think it's true, Brodeur has never looked tired to me. I have been a big fan of these guys from their rookie years.

I know a lot of people don't like the dramatics that Roy puts on. Personally, I love it. If it wasn't for the attitude that he had I think you could take 2 cups away from Roy at least.

When Sakic said Quebec had figured him out...I mean that kind of challenge I don't think would draw the same kind of response from Brodeur. But for Roy that drew 10 overtime wins and a stanley cup.

Brodeur is one hell of a goaltener. Statistically he'll go down as the best there ever was without question. But as I said before, I don't think he'll ever pull the 'best playoff goalie' title away from Roy. At the end of the day, playoff heroics, those overtime wins, the cocky attitude and 3 conn smythes will always ring true to people. That's why I think you'll always have 1 and 1a.

People can vouch for the other guys all they want, but Dryden can't hold the title because his career was too short. Same reason Orr can't be said to be as good as Gretz. Most women would agree that at the end of the day...size matters.

Taking from a couple of people in this thread, I agree that:

Brodeur statistically is the better goalie, whereas Roy is the better playoff goalie. As of today Roy is ahead, however, if Marty can break the wins/shutouts records and win another cup before he retires he could have a shot at "the title".

Brodeur needs a Conn Smythe.

I would say Roy was the better of the two. His playoff performances cannot be understated.

Brodeur needs a Conn Smythe.

Brodeur should have had the Conn Smythe in 2003 over Giguère. IMO, the Conn Smythe trophy means diddly squat because its voted on by hockey writers. Look at the stats in 2003 and there is no way that Giguère outplayed Brodeur in the playoffs. If Giguère was that good, then the Ducks should have won the Cup, not the Devils.

Just my 2 cents!

Brodeur should have had the Conn Smythe in 2003 over Giguère. IMO, the Conn Smythe trophy means diddly squat because its voted on by hockey writers. Look at the stats in 2003 and there is no way that Giguère outplayed Brodeur in the playoffs. If Giguère was that good, then the Ducks should have won the Cup, not the Devils.

Just my 2 cents!

Don't remind me, if the only thing Marty is missing when his career is over is a Conn Smythe...well I will dislike J.S. very much. More than I do now.

One is done; The other is still writing the record books.....


This question can not be answered for another 3 or 4 years in my opinion.

Brodeur should have had the Conn Smythe in 2003 over Giguère. IMO, the Conn Smythe trophy means diddly squat because its voted on by hockey writers. Look at the stats in 2003 and there is no way that Giguère outplayed Brodeur in the playoffs. If Giguère was that good, then the Ducks should have won the Cup, not the Devils.

Just my 2 cents!

I guess you don't remember the 1st round he had against the Redwings. The wings badly outplayed the Ducks, they just couldn't score goals because Giguiere was a brick wall. I'll admit, he was the reason they made it to the finals and he deserved it more than anybody on the Devils. Like I said, the Devils' Cup was such a team accomplishment that the arguement for the Conn Smythe could of went to a lot of people. IMO, the person that deserved it most from the Devils was Jamie Langenbrunner. He was just a man possessed during those first 3 rounds.

Wow 1100 views on this thread. It certainly isn't just Devils and Rangers in here.

I guess you don't remember the 1st round he had against the Redwings. The wings badly outplayed the Ducks, they just couldn't score goals because Giguiere was a brick wall. I'll admit, he was the reason they made it to the finals and he deserved it more than anybody on the Devils. Like I said, the Devils' Cup was such a team accomplishment that the arguement for the Conn Smythe could of went to a lot of people. IMO, the person that deserved it most from the Devils was Jamie Langenbrunner. He was just a man possessed during those first 3 rounds.

By that same argument then Brodeur should have gotten a Conn Smythe in 1995. The wings couldn't score on him cause Brodeur was a brick wall.

By that same argument then Brodeur should have gotten a Conn Smythe in 1995. The wings couldn't score on him cause Brodeur was a brick wall.

The arguement wasn't why Brodeur doesn't have a Conn Smythe, the arguement was he why he didn't get one in 2003.

I guess you don't remember the 1st round he had against the Redwings. The wings badly outplayed the Ducks, they just couldn't score goals because Giguiere was a brick wall. I'll admit, he was the reason they made it to the finals and he deserved it more than anybody on the Devils. Like I said, the Devils' Cup was such a team accomplishment that the arguement for the Conn Smythe could of went to a lot of people. IMO, the person that deserved it most from the Devils was Jamie Langenbrunner. He was just a man possessed during those first 3 rounds.



The Conn Smythe is for the entire playoffs not the first 3 rounds.....Personally, I thought Giguere was not that good in the Finals....Mediocre at best. Brodeur was good through 4 rounds, not just 3....

The problem I have with it, is Giguere won the Smythe before he even played a single game in the finals. That was blantantly clear.


I think the question is what is more important...

To be spectacular, unbelievable or any other adjective you want to use for 3 rounds and loose....Or be very good for 4 rounds and win??? :dunno:

The arguement wasn't why Brodeur doesn't have a Conn Smythe, the arguement was he why he didn't get one in 2003.

The thing that I think might have led to it is the fact that Brodeur, Niedermayer, and Langenbrunner were all great during that playoff run, while Giguere was really the only one who had a great run for the Ducks. With all the media hype Giguere got that year, it didn't surprise me when he won the Conn Smythe.

Personally, I think Scott Niedermayer deserved it more than anybody that year, even Marty. Looking back on it Niedermayer finished tied with Langenbrunner for the most points during the playoffs with 18, and led the league in assists with 16. It's not very often a defenseman does that. The fact that Stevens asked "where's Nieder?" and handed him the Cup right after lifting it himself says a lot to me about how important Niedermayer was that year.

Damn do I miss seeing that #27 in a Devils jersey.:(

I can't comment on Dryden, Sawchuck, or Hall because I never saw them play except for the odd old footage. Much like you, I'd imagine. ;)

Personally, I'd take both Brodeur and Roy over Hasek. Hasek, at his best, was the best of the three, but Brodeur and especially Roy were able to play better when the games mattered most.

I disagree. Hasek was an incredible clutch performer. He never had the luxury of being on as good of teams as Brodeur and Roy had throughout their careers and he constantly outperformed both of them.

If I had a choice, I'd take Hasek over either of them without even thinking.

I disagree. Hasek was an incredible clutch performer. He never had the luxury of being on as good of teams as Brodeur and Roy had throughout their careers and he constantly outperformed both of them.

If I had a choice, I'd take Hasek over either of them without even thinking.

Nice tai ming.

I disagree. Hasek was an incredible clutch performer. He never had the luxury of being on as good of teams as Brodeur and Roy had throughout their careers and he constantly outperformed both of them.

If I had a choice, I'd take Hasek over either of them without even thinking.

Keep in mind Brodeur still has IMO 5 good years left in him. Hasek is pretty much done, and Roy well he IS done.

Wow, a whole blog devoted against Brodeur.

http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/

Marty is behind Roy in this TSN poll for the greatest goaltender of the post-expansion era.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/Default.aspx

I honestly think Marty's gaffe on Ozo's clearing attempt cost him that trophy. Trivial, I know, but that's what everyone remembers. That and the series going to a 7th game. I think Marty locks it up if NJ wins the series in 6 games. Giguere and his Ducks won the Smythe because they took the series to 7 games.

That is one of the poorest reasons I have ever heard to demote somone's entire career. I've seen Roy let in some real doosies himself.

That is one of the poorest reasons I have ever heard to demote somone's entire career. I've seen Roy let in some real doosies himself.

Where did I demote someone's entire career?

Poor reasoning by the writers? Part of my point.

Roy's doosies(sic) may have cost him a Cup but not a Conn.

Why pick the evening Marty begins the brief period of time when he shares a ranking with George Hainsworth to make me write that Martin Brodeur will never ever beat Patrick Roy in a Stanley Cup Final Game 7 despite eventually Gretkying the record book for goaltenders?

An SCF Game 7 vs. Hasek is still within the realm of possibility though. :)

http://firstrung.co.uk/dbimgs/iStock_can%20of%20worms.jpg

according to habs fans broduers not better than anyone.

Brodeur, Hasek, and Roy are all great. If you're looking for a goalie to win you game 7 of the Cup finals you really couldn't go wrong with any of them.

BUT, if you're picking a goalie to build a team around and have for his whole career, I don't see how you can't pick Marty. His consistency, durability, and team-first attitude are what sets him apart from the others.

Brodeur has built a franchise which never could've made it in the NYC area without his help. I'll determine greatness over the effect one player can have on a franchise's market. There would be no New Jersey Devils, in my opinion, without Brodeur.

Also no one understands the footprints towards greatness more than Martin Brodeur. With his father being an olympic goalie and Montreal Canadians Photographer. This is what fuels his competitiveness. This is why I think he will ultimately shatter the records he grew up idolizing.

Brodeur has built a franchise which never could've made it in the NYC area without his help. I'll determine greatness over the effect one player can have on a franchise's market. There would be no New Jersey Devils, in my opinion, without Brodeur.

You took the words out of my mouth.
I would also like to add marty will never get bood out of nj ,roy got bood out of montreal.

Brodeur is the better goaltender...steady and consistant...rarely comes off cocky the way Roy did...Marty has the ability to shut out the Habs while catching up on his sleep...he is just amazing!

Awesome comparison, I really can't choose one over the other.

Brodeur has built a franchise which never could've made it in the NYC area without his help. I'll determine greatness over the effect one player can have on a franchise's market. There would be no New Jersey Devils, in my opinion, without Brodeur.

Exactly. Brodeur is THE franchise goaltender.