Sutter and line matching

First post, and it's a long one.

I have noticed the past few games that Sutter seemed to be matching lines a little bit more, something he explicitly said he would not do at the beginning of the year. Last night was most drastic, with Lecavalier on the ice for all of the goals by Pandolfo and Madden. I decided to check it out, using the great timeonice.com website. I looked at every single game the Devils have played so far, and there has been a drastic change since the beginning of the season.

1st game of the season=Madden's line only got 2.5 minutes of ES time against Lecavalier, 12 minutes total ES out of 45. Lecavalier/St.Louis/Prospal played mostly against the top 2 lines at ES.
Here's the chart= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20009&submit=Go

2nd game v FLA=Madden got almost 5 minutes ES time against Jokinen out of 13 minutes total out of 43 and 3 minutes against Horton. The responsibilities for playing against Florida's top 2 lines were still spread out. He was reunited with Pandolfo, as well. http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20026&submit=Go

3rd game v OTT=Madden got 15 minutes ES out of 53. Still no line matching, very even ice time against Spezza/Heatley/Alfredsson. Devils top 2 lines played alot against Ottawa's top line.
http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20037&submit=Go

4th game v FLA=Still no line matching, Madden and Pandolfo played more than other lines against Horton/Weiss/Booth, but did not play much against Jokinen/Zednik/Pelotonen.
http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20055&submit=Go

5th game v ATL=Madden and pandolfo played the most at ES against Kovalchuk, other lines still got a decent amount of icetime against him and the second line of sterling/little/haydar.
http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20068&submit=Go

6th game v PIT=For the first time this season, Sutter played Madden and Pandolfo primarily much more against Crosby's line than against anyone else. Madden played 8.3 minutes against Crosby out of 13.5. Like last season, only a couple other forwards played more than 2 minutes against the top line. Compare this season (http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20086&submit=Go) to last season (http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0607.html?GameNumber=21049&submit=Go), both games against the Penguins.

7th game v PHI=Sutter reverted to his tactics, and Madden/Pandolfo had their ice time spread out against the Flyers' lines. The top 3 Devils lines all played against the Briere/Knuble/Gagne line.
http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20090&submit=Go

8th game v NYI=The next game against the Isles was very similar. Ice time was very spread out.
http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20106&submit=Go

9th game v NYR=Sutter matched lines, but limited Madden and Pando's icetime so that they mostly played against Gomez/Jagr who played about 16 ES minutes. Madden and Pandolfo played 12.5-14min out of 45 ES min. Both Madden and Pandolfo didn't play more than 2 minutes against any other Rangers forward. Elias/Zajac/Asham played 4-5 min against Jagr, Brylin/Pelley played 2/3, no one else played more than 1. Against the Rangers last year (I picked one random game, Feb 22 when they won 3-2 in a SO), Madden got 15 min, and no forward outside the checking line played more than 2 min against Jagr. Compare this year (http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20132&submit=Go) to last year (http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0607.html?GameNumber=20909&submit=Go).

10th game v OTT=Sutter repeated his Rangers tactics and used Madden and Pandolfo mostly against the Spezz/Heat/Alf line while limiting their minutes. Madden and Pandolfo played about 13 minutes out of 50 ES min. Neither player was matched against the Sens bottom 3 lines for 3 minutes or more. Alfredsson, Heatley, and Spezza played 15-16 minutes apiece. So Sutter used every forward other than Pelley and Rupp for about 2-4 minutes. No forwards other than the checking line played 4 minutes against the Sens top line, while Maddolfo played about 8-10 minutes against them. Compare this season (http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20147&submit=Go) to last year's OT playoff game against the Sens (http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0607.html?GameNumber=30222&submit=Go), when no forward played 2.5 minutes against their Spezz/Heat/Alf who all played 18.5-20 minutes at even strength.

11th game v TB=Last night the time on ice chart is a little messed up (Doesn't have the full game up yet or something), but the trend continued. Use the checking line against the other team's top line, but don't use them to the point of exhaustion. Being a little less strict with the changes allows for more offensive freedom, as well.

Just thought this would be of interest to all y'all, it seems Sutter has adapted his style to fit the Devils personnel while changing it a little bit. We'll see how it works this season, if he decides to maintain this style. I didn't look at whether Sutter has been matching defensive pairs to top lines, other than last night when he matched Greene/Martin to the LecavaLouis line.

Links for TOI this year:

TB= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20168&submit=Go Oct 31
OTT= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20147&submit=Go Oct 27
NYR= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20132&submit=Go Oct 25
NYI= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20106&submit=Go Oct 20
PHI= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20090&submit=Go Oct 18
PIT= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20086&submit=Go Oct 17
FLA= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20055&submit=Go Oct 11
ATL= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20068&submit=Go Oct 13
OTT= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20037&submit=Go Oct 8
FLA= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20026&submit=Go Oct 6
TB= http://www.timeonice.com/H2H0708.html?GameNumber=20009&submit=Go Oct 4

Also overall TOI stats:
TOI 2007-08 http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?fetchKey=20082NJDSASAll&page=Stats&service=page&sort=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce Madden ES=13 Pando ES=13
TOI 2006-07 http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?fetchKey=20072NJDSASAll&page=Stats&service=page&sort=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce Madden ES=15:20 Panod ES=15:20

Lastly, timeonice.com is an awesome site, no ads, just great stats. Thanks to whoever puts that site together.

Sutter has been quoted to say after last night's game that he was mistaken about line matching. He said that everyone makes mistakes even him and he admits it.

Sutter has been quoted to say after last night's game that he was mistaken about line matching. He said that everyone makes mistakes even him and he admits it.

The only mistake he said he made was not having Madden and Pandolfo out against the teams top lines when all their eggs are in one basket. This is a learning process for EVERYONE not just the players, but the coach and everyone. Of course people will now say that Brent is pressured by Lou, which he's not because we don't just sit back anymore.

Where was the line matching quote? Didn't catch it. And to be clear, I'm not making this Sutter thumbs up/thumbs down, just trying to show that a change has been made.

The only mistake he said he made was not having Madden and Pandolfo out against the teams top lines when all their eggs are in one basket. This is a learning process for EVERYONE not just the players, but the coach and everyone. Of course people will now say that Brent is pressured by Lou, which he's not because we don't just sit back anymore.
Agree, but I'd say the other mistake was the bench minor he took for cursing out the ref (which I only disagree with for the penalty, the principle was fine). I think it's great that he mans up to his mistakes and realizes that everyone is still learning, himself included.

Yes...."Its a Learning Process"

Learning How we do things in New Jersey is the process!

Not going to argue semantics, don’t really care how it gets done, because really in the end WINNING IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

Its just, I know 15 straight years of winning records through Defensive Hockey.

At least he's man enough to admit he made a mistake and that's a good sign.

I think the experience Sutter didn't have coming in was being he coached a few Canadian national teams which tends to consist of some of the best players (even if it's Jr's) and so he's used to being able to just go according to his plan. Even with Red Deer, he's had some talent, and you should also consider these are all young kids learning how to be pros basically. They're a lot more interchangeable than guys like Madden and Pandolfo who have not only worked together for years upon years, but also are at an age where they've matured to the fullest.

So with that said, breaking them apart was stupid, yes. But one must also consider Sutter's mentality and experience coaching beforehand. He learned from that mistake and he also turned an almost exclusively defensive line into what has easily become out best line, period. Not only did they do an incredible job against, what I think, is a great offensive team, but they also scored a majority of the goals/points. This is the happy medium that is Sutter mixed with who we "were" so to speak.

Right now we have our top "defensive" line..but with the things Sutter has implemented it's also turned them into a great offensive line as well. Granted these aren't REALLY the guys that should be doing what they did last night (who's complaining anyway?) but naturally it's a great sign and I think that if anything it's proof that this can work and that we can be extremely successful.

Lets not forget that with how long those two have played together chemistry is a no brainer. But now we're working in guys like Clarkson and Zubrus who don't have an identity on this team and sometimes that can bring the rest of the line down. Our defense consists of a 2nd year rookie who has under 50 games, and possibly 4 brand new faces (Rachunek, Vish, Malmivaara (sic), Mottau).

It's amazing sign that Sutter has accepted his and the teams early failures and is continuing to grow right beside the team. That can't do anything but help us...everyone is growing together and ultimately we got guys behind the bench that are familiar with the organization to be there to help it all along even more.

I'm confident we can right the ship...we just gotta stop being babies and be patient.

I wish we had him as a coach last season. I think if Sutter was here, Gomez and Rafalski might not have left. Gomez was looking for a more exciting system. This would have been it. Rafalski's puck moving abilities would have been tremendous in this system. Even Rassmussen would have benefited under this system.

I wish we had him as a coach last season. I think if Sutter was here, Gomez and Rafalski might not have left. Gomez was looking for a more exciting system. This would have been it. Rafalski's puck moving abilities would have been tremendous in this system. Even Rassmussen would have benefited under this system.

Gomez left for the money. In case you haven't noticed the Rangers play a similar system as the Devils played the last few years (maybe not quite as passive as under Julien).

As for Sutter and him saying he won't match line I think it was a couple things. I think the statement to the media was more of telling other teams not try and do what Tampa and Ottawa did last year and just try to dictate the games. If you watched the Super Series before this season Sutter was matching lines constantly. So the idea that he was opposed to it was false.

I wish we had him as a coach last season. I think if Sutter was here, Gomez and Rafalski might not have left. Gomez was looking for a more exciting system. This would have been it. Rafalski's puck moving abilities would have been tremendous in this system. Even Rassmussen would have benefited under this system.

I am sure Scotty is loving the exciting system the Rangers are playing right now. Just dont call it the 1-2-2, when you cross the river its "solid defense". :sarcasm:

He didn't just leave for money. He was bored under the trapping system and felt it stiffled his point production.

He wanted crowds to cheer him on and he wanted to be closer to NY. But he could easily have lived near NY and taken the train to Newark now for practices.

It is a little amusing to say that Gomez thought he'd play under a more offensive system with the Rangers, who are playing the same system. Perhaps he thought that he would play in a more offensive system.

I buy that he wants bigger crowds, bigger cities, more fame and way more money.

It is a little amusing to say that Gomez thought he'd play under a more offensive system with the Rangers, who are playing the same system. Perhaps he thought that he would play in a more offensive system.

I buy that he wants bigger crowds, bigger cities, more fame and way more money.

It was the money, plain and simple.

Thanks for the timeonice.com link, BK, and I don't think I've ever seen so many links in one post. There's like 25.

But the big problem is still the PK, still gave one up to TB. It's crazy, they have given up a PP goal the last 10 games. That is atrocious. Beyond atrocious. It must change. They are still under 70% and still last in the league. If they were just average, they would have given up about 6 goals less and that's the difference of a several points.

Yes...."Its a Learning Process"

Learning How we do things in New Jersey is the process!

Not going to argue semantics, don’t really care how it gets done, because really in the end WINNING IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

Its just, I know 15 straight years of winning records through Defensive Hockey.

:shakehead you are such a misinformed little soul......so misinformed. We're not trapping and boring the hell out of the opposition, just because he's matching JJ against the other teams top line doesn't make it the old ways, it's only one thing. We're still aggressive on the forecheck and the offensive freedom is there. When he started he maintained that he wanted a puck pressure system with the same defensive responsibilities as the past........get over it Jim, it's not going to change

:shakehead you are such a misinformed little soul......so misinformed. We're not trapping and boring the hell out of the opposition, just because he's matching JJ against the other teams top line doesn't make it the old ways, it's only one thing. We're still aggressive on the forecheck and the offensive freedom is there. When he started he maintained that he wanted a puck pressure system with the same defensive responsibilities as the past........get over it Jim, it's not going to change
Hasn't Sutter always been about defensive responsibility first and taking advantage of offensive opportunities? That's what I thought watching his junior teams. They scored a lot because they had the puck a lot.

And that's also what I thought about his "checking line is overrated" comment...not that checking itself is overrated, but just having a line out there playing defensively and just sitting back. As someone mentioned, he did match lines in the super series, but his system wouldn't work with forwards who aren't defensively responsible, so no wonder Maddolfo are doing so well.

I hope it's like a 6-4 game, I want to see lots of offense tonight. and of course a Devils win. I think Parise gets 2 tonight!

HOORAY teh trap is dead!!!:handclap: