Matvichuk is too slow for this?

How can this guy, arguably our #2 d-man from last year's playoffs, not be good enough to play defense on this team? Our shorthanded team is a mess. And don't tell me the issue is moving the puck, b/c I don't see our forwards doing anything with it anyway.

It is completely irresponsible to dismiss this guy out of hand as the devils have.

No, but he is good for maybe 20 games top and is at the end of his career. Case closed. Forget Grandpa Matvichuk.

why did we let luko walk?

How can this guy, arguably our #2 d-man from last year's playoffs, not be good enough to play defense on this team?

Yes. In fact, the Ottawa Senators are probably the #1 team in the entire NHL I wouldnt want Matty on the ice in a NHL uniform against. I like him as a person, but this team needs to take at least one step back to take a giant leap forward.

why did we let luko walk?

He WANTED go to back to TB.

He WANTED go to back to TB.

No he didn't. We let him go.

No he didn't. We let him go.

Not quite. Lukowich was a UFA. He went where he wanted to go.

Not quite. Lukowich was a UFA. He went where he wanted to go.
We didn't even contact him. Lou had no interest.

Look at it from Lou's perspective in the offseason...
Martin
White
Greene
Oduya
Matvichuk

Plus
Vishnevski
Rachunek

You can't plan for the injury to White or for the slow start from Oduya or for Sutter not wanting Matvichuk anywhere near the ice.

That's 7 NHL defensemen, signing Lukowich, or anyone else for that matter would be slightly overkill. Plus he was trying to sign both Parise and Martin to longer termed deals this past offseason and keeping cap space available for that was a concern with Kevin "Offer Sheet" Lowe on the prowl.

Personally, I wanted Lukowich resigned to a one-year deal but I'm sure he wanted the 3 years he got from Tampa...and from interviews it sounded like he never wanted to leave Tampa in the first place.

Some guys just aren't going to fit into Sutter's plans, and Matvichuk is apparently one of those guys. I like Matvichuk and think he deserves a chance to play elsewhere, but I don't know how many teams are interested in a 34 year old defensive defenseman who's had back issues the last couple years.

Matvichuk isn't in the Devils plans anymore, and they can't find somebody interested in trading for him right now. What are they supposed to do?

Not quite. Lukowich was a UFA. He went where he wanted to go.


He wasn't even thinking of TB, they called him out of the blue and he discussed it with his wife, she was all for it and he was off to TB

With him and Matvichuk in the lineup we'd be much better off

He wasn't even thinking of TB, they called him out of the blue and he discussed it with his wife, she was all for it and he was off to TB

With him and Matvichuk in the lineup we'd be much better off

I loved Luko on the Devils, despite the unfortunate brain fart in the Carolina series. A classic lunchpail guy, in the Daneyko mold, Lukowich is a tough and positionally sound, team-first guy, who played through all sorts of pain. A real warrior. And he was more than willing to re-sign as a UFA, and for relatively small money. But Lou had other priorities -- namely Martin and Parise -- and was playing "wait and see" with Lukowich.

When Tampa offered him huge money and a four year deal, waaaaay more than NJ would ever offer (especially the years), it was a dream come true for Brad and his wife, who never wanted to leave the Tampa area in the first place. I am happy for them, but with Whitey out for the foreseeable future we could really use him right about now.

And I remain a Matvichuk fan, and am appalled by the awful treatment he received from Brent Sutter -- who I think is afraid of veteran team leaders (hence his stripping Elias of the "C" and Madden of the "A", and b**** slapping the both of them).

With what Matvichuk went through last season, practicing hard since January but left out of the line-up due to the crazy salary cap, and then how big he came up when it really mattered in the playoffs (in his first two playoff games he blocked 18 shots, which is utter insanity), I thought he was going to be a solid physical presence on D for us this season. For him to then not see ANY regular season action this year, despite being healthy, due to Sutter's preconceptions of his "system" is a complete and utter crock of ****.

Especially considering our defense is terrible, LAST IN THE LEAGUE on the PK, after being Top 5 last season, with virtually no physical element in the entire D corps. Disgraceful and stupid. But, hey, Sutter is GOD because he won all sorts of trophies with a bunch of players under 20. Too bad people OVER 20 are allowed in the NHL, because Sutter apparently is unwilling or unable to coach them.

No, but he is good for maybe 20 games top and is at the end of his career. Case closed. Forget Grandpa Matvichuk.

How do you figure? He is less then 8 months olderthen Brian Rafalski and been nothing but a rock on the blueline in the post season for us.

I would take Matvichuk over: Rachunek, Oduya and Mottau.

We didn't even contact him. Lou had no interest.

Look at it from Lou's perspective in the offseason...
Martin
White
Greene
Oduya
Matvichuk

Plus
Vishnevski
Rachunek

You can't plan for the injury to White or for the slow start from Oduya or for Sutter not wanting Matvichuk anywhere near the ice.

That's 7 NHL defensemen, signing Lukowich, or anyone else for that matter would be slightly overkill. Plus he was trying to sign both Parise and Martin to longer termed deals this past offseason and keeping cap space available for that was a concern with Kevin "Offer Sheet" Lowe on the prowl.

Personally, I wanted Lukowich resigned to a one-year deal but I'm sure he wanted the 3 years he got from Tampa...and from interviews it sounded like he never wanted to leave Tampa in the first place.

Well, gee it would have been nice to know that Sutter didn't like Matvichuk in this system. That really screwed us up. Of course, White got hurt and you can't predict that. But, the Matvichuk thing really pisses me off because nobody on our defense is better than him, no one.

We didn't even contact him. Lou had no interest.

Yes we did.

Lou did not offer him a contract but he did contact him. Luko waited but could only wait so long and loves the Lightning team, the organization and the area and signed.


But the ball was certainly in the Devils court. Luko had every intention of returning to the Devils.

Yes we did.

Lou did not offer him a contract but he did contact him. Luko waited but could only wait so long and loves the Lightning team, the organization and the area and signed.


But the ball was certainly in the Devils court. Luko had every intention of returning to the Devils.

Correct. He said so emphatically whenever asked and was fairly remorseful with Lou not giving him an offer and stringing him along. But it worked out for him in the end. Just not for us.

Really liked the guy, as a player and a person. Wish him the best.

Well, gee it would have been nice to know that Sutter didn't like Matvichuk in this system. That really screwed us up. Of course, White got hurt and you can't predict that. But, the Matvichuk thing really pisses me off because nobody on our defense is better than him, no one.

Yep. And him being labeled by Sutter as "too slow for the NHL" really screwed him getting a job anywhere else. A complete cluster****. Has really soured me on Brent Sutter as a human being as well as a coach.

Well, gee it would have been nice to know that Sutter didn't like Matvichuk in this system. That really screwed us up. Of course, White got hurt and you can't predict that. But, the Matvichuk thing really pisses me off because nobody on our defense is better than him, no one.

Are you 100% sure? We're not talking about the guy from April.

The silence that is the outside interest in him, speaks volumes. I don't
know how thoroughly he's been scouted, but at least one person, other
than Sutter, has had to seem something they didn't like, for him not to find
a new home.

Yep. And him being labeled by Sutter as "too slow for the NHL" really screwed him getting a job anywhere else. A complete cluster****. Has really soured me on Brent Sutter as a human being as well as a coach.

Do you really think everyone is so stupid they just follow
the word of Brent Sutter? 29 other teams, don't even bother taking
a look because Brent Sutter says he's too slow. A decent number
of them probably got a look at EXACTLY what he's talking about and
that's why they're not showing interest.

Have you *seen* Matvichuk play *this preseason*?

I agree 1,000% with Sutter's assessment. What he did in the playoffs
was valiant, it was great, and it was also the result of someone at 100%
playing jumping into a game of people playing on fumes and will.

The problem here was that Matvichuk wanted to play every night and
pretty much demanded a trade, let's not forget that part.

Matvichuk looked awful in preseason. This was my take after the game in Trenton:

Matvichuk was flopping all over the ice and looked like he did when he first started playing for us.

Do you really think everyone is so stupid they just follow
the word of Brent Sutter? 29 other teams, don't even bother taking
a look because Brent Sutter says he's too slow. A decent number
of them probably got a look at EXACTLY what he's talking about and
that's why they're not showing interest.

Have you *seen* Matvichuk play *this preseason*?

I agree 1,000% with Sutter's assessment. What he did in the playoffs
was valiant, it was great, and it was also the result of someone at 100%
playing jumping into a game of people playing on fumes and will.

The problem here was that Matvichuk wanted to play every night and
pretty much demanded a trade, let's not forget that part.

Matvichuk saw us struggling and wanted to do something about it, but was left out of the line-up in favor of players like Oduya and Rachunek, who have sucked mightily. It is easy to understand his frustration. It was both disrespectful and stupid not to let him play, and to make it clear he "did not fit the system" and was essentially a dead man walking. "Demanding a trade" is the only dignified way to deal with that, plain and simple.

And to judge a veteran player by his PRE-SEASON play is just silly. Arron Asham, for one, had a BRUTAL pre-season, playing like utter dog ****. But when the games actually mattered, he has performed very well. Above many people's expectations, including my own. But if Brent Sutter rushed to judgement during pre-season, as he did with Matty, and ran Asham out of town, we'd never get to see it.

My feeling remains that Brent Sutter is much more inclined to coach youngsters, who cower and capitulate to his firey temper, versus veteran players who provide their own leadership, which he sees as competition, and don't cotton to being screamed at like children, as they are grown men.

That is why Richard Matvichuk was marked for death at the outset, as he is well known for being a vocal team leader. As he did with John Madden, who was rumored to be in Sutter's doghouse from day one, and who Sutter stripped of his "A" and for a time removed from his linemate and natural counterpart, Pando, because Mad Dog is a fiery and vocal Captain type and essentially the de facto leader of this team for several seasons, someone who would stand up to a Brent Sutter, or frankly anyone. And that is why he has stripped Elias of his "C", and ripped him in the press (without speaking to him in private, which is how it should be done), not to "motivate" him, but rather humiliate him and strip him of any power or influence on his teammates.

Most Bullies are also cowards. Brent Sutter is a bully. Do the math. That is why he needs to be around the equivolent of little kids to do his thing.

I was soooo excited with him coming here to coach, and bought into all the hype, but this bull**** is making me ill.

Aren't Madden and Pando leading us in goals?

Aren't Madden and Pando leading us in goals?

Some people think Madden's early goal scoring saved him from a trade. No way to know that.

Do you really think everyone is so stupid they just follow
the word of Brent Sutter? 29 other teams, don't even bother taking
a look because Brent Sutter says he's too slow. A decent number
of them probably got a look at EXACTLY what he's talking about and
that's why they're not showing interest.

Have you *seen* Matvichuk play *this preseason*?

I agree 1,000% with Sutter's assessment. What he did in the playoffs
was valiant, it was great, and it was also the result of someone at 100%
playing jumping into a game of people playing on fumes and will.

The problem here was that Matvichuk wanted to play every night and
pretty much demanded a trade, let's not forget that part.
I agree, he looked like crap. But fans around here think Matty is god for one playoff series. Forget that he sucked when he got here and didn't do much of anything else for us. Frankly, I don't care if he sat out all season. And if anyone wants to talk about whining to the media, look at him. Poor Matty. So hurt.

Sutter wants defensemen that can pinch when the forwards establish a forecheck, then get back on defense when possession is lost in the offensive zone. It requires quick thinking and quicker skating. Sutter doesn't feel Matvichuk has the quickness to play in that system. His game, after all, is mostly blocking shots in the defensive zone.

And at no point did Sutter or Lou say that Matvichuk was "too slow for the NHL", they said he was too slow to fit into the Devils current system.

Matvichuk saw us struggling and wanted to do something about it, but was left out of the line-up in favor of players like Oduya and Rachunek, who have sucked mightily. It is easy to understand his frustration. It was both disrespectful and stupid not to let him play, and to make it clear he "did not fit the system" and was essentially a dead man walking. "Demanding a trade" is the only dignified way to deal with that, plain and simple.

And to judge a veteran player by his PRE-SEASON play is just silly. Arron Asham, for one, had a BRUTAL pre-season, playing like utter dog ****. But when the games actually mattered, he has performed very well. Above many people's expectations, including my own. But if Brent Sutter rushed to judgement during pre-season, as he did with Matty, and ran Asham out of town, we'd never get to see it.

My feeling remains that Brent Sutter is much more inclined to coach youngsters, who cower and capitulate to his firey temper, versus veteran players who provide their own leadership, which he sees as competition, and don't cotton to being screamed at like children, as they are grown men.

That is why Richard Matvichuk was marked for death at the outset, as he is well known for being a vocal team leader. As he did with John Madden, who was rumored to be in Sutter's doghouse from day one, and who Sutter stripped of his "A" and for a time removed from his linemate and natural counterpart, Pando, because Mad Dog is a fiery and vocal Captain type and essentially the de facto leader of this team for several seasons, someone who would stand up to a Brent Sutter, or frankly anyone. And that is why he has stripped Elias of his "C", and ripped him in the press (without speaking to him in private, which is how it should be done), not to "motivate" him, but rather humiliate him and strip him of any power or influence on his teammates.

Most Bullies are also cowards. Brent Sutter is a bully. Do the math. That is why he needs to be around the equivolent of little kids to do his thing.

I was soooo excited with him coming here to coach, and bought into all the hype, but this bull**** is making me ill.

*golf clap*
Thank you

Most Bullies are also cowards. Brent Sutter is a bully. Do the math. That is why he needs to be around the equivolent of little kids to do his thing.

I was soooo excited with him coming here to coach, and bought into all the hype, but this bull**** is making me ill.

If this is what he really is, believe me the players would let Lou know. Marty would be the first to tell Lou and no matter how many records Sutter broke or how many miracle teams he coached, he'll be gone just like Herb Brooks.

Even if Lou/Sutter asked Matty to come back, I am Guessing he would just say B*** Me!

I would if I were him!

Matvichuk saw us struggling and wanted to do something about it, but was left out of the line-up in favor of players like Oduya and Rachunek, who have sucked mightily. It is easy to understand his frustration. It was both disrespectful and stupid not to let him play, and to make it clear he "did not fit the system" and was essentially a dead man walking. "Demanding a trade" is the only dignified way to deal with that, plain and simple.

And to judge a veteran player by his PRE-SEASON play is just silly. Arron Asham, for one, had a BRUTAL pre-season, playing like utter dog ****. But when the games actually mattered, he has performed very well. Above many people's expectations, including my own. But if Brent Sutter rushed to judgement during pre-season, as he did with Matty, and ran Asham out of town, we'd never get to see it.

My feeling remains that Brent Sutter is much more inclined to coach youngsters, who cower and capitulate to his firey temper, versus veteran players who provide their own leadership, which he sees as competition, and don't cotton to being screamed at like children, as they are grown men.

That is why Richard Matvichuk was marked for death at the outset, as he is well known for being a vocal team leader. As he did with John Madden, who was rumored to be in Sutter's doghouse from day one, and who Sutter stripped of his "A" and for a time removed from his linemate and natural counterpart, Pando, because Mad Dog is a fiery and vocal Captain type and essentially the de facto leader of this team for several seasons, someone who would stand up to a Brent Sutter, or frankly anyone. And that is why he has stripped Elias of his "C", and ripped him in the press (without speaking to him in private, which is how it should be done), not to "motivate" him, but rather humiliate him and strip him of any power or influence on his teammates.

Most Bullies are also cowards. Brent Sutter is a bully. Do the math. That is why he needs to be around the equivolent of little kids to do his thing.

I was soooo excited with him coming here to coach, and bought into all the hype, but this bull**** is making me ill.

:shakehead

HE WAS "MARKED FOR DEATH" BECAUSE HE SUCKED.

He sucked his entire tenure here except for the Tampa series. Where
he was fresh. And everyone else was run into the ground. A two line
team against a three line team, of course he's going to look like a god!

And good for him because he did it, but he had to MAKE THE TEAM.

And he did, as a seventh defenseman. And he wanted to play, so he
whined and asked for a trade, and no one wants him. So, now, he's
stuck. If he had just sat back, maybe he gets in the lineup.

When you have to make the team, you can't suck in the preseason.
Especially being slow and lost. Which he was. He looked horrible
on TV, and I don't like going after players based off TV, because it
is incomplete information... but he was SO bad I could make a safe
assumption.

"If I didn't know who the players are, I'd cut #24 after this game."

His name recognition and what he did in the Tampa series would be
the only thing keeping me from canning his ass after ONE LOOK, if I
was in charge of the team.

Sutter is right on this. I'm sorry, if you don't like him. I don't know
what you thought you were getting.

And GOD FORBID he challenged Madden, who looked shot last year.
And you know what, HE STEPPED UP TO THE CHALLENGE. This is
about making these guys compete. If they can't, they gotta go.
This team is not good enough to float through life anymore. If you
just let them float at their own tempo, this team is going to be god
awful. Look at the roster. He's trying to get them to compete
as hard as humanly possible, because it's the only way they're going
to win.

People getting worked up about aging C- defensemen because they're
SO much better than our younger D level defensemen.

If Matvichuk was viable, someone would have picked him up TWO WEEKS
ago. With all of his leadership that Sutter was trying to snuff out, and
his mindbending defensive abilities, it's like getting Scott Stevens for
nothing!

BUT, APPARENTLY, a rookie head coach for a team that gets rid of their
coaches like twice-weekly garbage has sway over the entire league and
they just won't touch him.


:biglaugh:

Man all this talk about how Sutter is a bully really makes me want to dredge up a few posts from last year when everyone was clamoring for a coach to "kick this team's ass."

I always wonder why people are quick to blame a coach when the players are on the ice. No matter what the system is "You play to WIN the Game" (thanks Herm).

I like the fact that Sutter is Here, but truth be told this is a totally different Devs team that we have been used to seeing. Lots of Key cogs have been removed from Free Agency, or our key injuries right now. Add to the fact that our prospects are not quite ready to fully step in. But God, our D looks pretty lost out there most nights. Our O has been getting a lot of shots on net, but I wouldn't consider them very High quality.

Isn't it funny how all of our D-men have negative +/- ratings except for Greene whos actually at a +4?

Except for some really questionable penalties I think he's the best D-man on the team. Martin is second and then we drop off significantly.

So lets have our D pairings be :

Martin-Greene
Brookbank-Mottau
Oduya-Vishnevski
Rachunek

Isn't it funny how all of our D-men have negative +/- ratings except for Greene whos actually at a +4?

Except for some really questionable penalties I think he's the best D-man on the team. Martin is second and then we drop off significantly.

So lets have our D pairings be :

Martin-Greene
Brookbank-Vishnevski
Oduya-Rachunek

And just never play the 3rd line D.

Eh, Martin is still the best. He's just saddled with Oduyasuck, "Oh do I suck" as a partner.

Eh, Martin is still the best. He's just saddled with Oduyasuck, "Oh do I suck" as a partner.

Well thats what I mean... Why split up our two best D-men when they can be on one line and shut down the top pairing scorers?

Then use the bigger guys like Brookbank and Vishnevski on the grinder lines to wear them down.

While Oduya looks good sometimes, he makes too many boneheaded mistakes and is a high risk. He should not get the minutes he's getting now.

Why split up our two best D-men when they can be on one line and shut down the top pairing scorers?
Because Sutter doesn't like to match lines too much. For example, Vish and Brookbank were out against the Spezza line a good amount on Saturday.

Man all this talk about how Sutter is a bully really makes me want to dredge up a few posts from last year when everyone was clamoring for a coach to "kick this team's ass."

Wasn't Burns a bully? didn't everyone love him?

Wasn't Julien a pu**y? didn't everyone hate him?

Wasn't Burns a bully? didn't everyone love him?

Yes, including the players.

Wasn't Julien a pu**y? didn't everyone hate him?

Yes, including the players.


And in both cases there was great team chemistry. This team is a mess, and is playing like someone is constantly looking over their shoulders. The energy feels devisive, not unifying, at present. Things change, so we'll all see what happens in the end.

And in both cases there was great team chemistry. This team is a mess, and is playing like someone is constantly looking over their shoulders. The energy feels devisive, not unifying, at present. Things change, so we'll all see what happens in the end.

I think losing plays a big part in this too. If everything about Sutter was the same but the team was winning opinions might be different. But you're right, we'll see how it turns out in the end.

Agree completely that winning helps everything. Gomez and Burnsey went at each other at first, like oil and water, but were almost father and son close after we won it all. Things change. Hopefully for the better.

Some people think Madden's early goal scoring saved him from a trade. No way to know that. I have no idea where the Madden being trade rumors originated from. Never once believed a word of that myself.

And in both cases there was great team chemistry. This team is a mess, and is playing like someone is constantly looking over their shoulders. The energy feels devisive, not unifying, at present. Things change, so we'll all see what happens in the end.

Yeah, there was great chemistry under Burns. LOL.

There were clearly players that clashed with him.

And last year? If you think that team wasn't a mess, I don't
know what to tell you. Alot of weird things went down before
Julien got fired that would not happen on a team that was on
the same page.