10 Games In -- Question For The Board

After watching the Devils stink up their brand new place...where do we point the finger of the problem?

A. The Offense? Having no one that can fire off a shot that's more difficult for a NHL goalie to stop. (Right now, our goal scores couldn't get one past a decent ECHL goalie)

B. The Defense? Sure, we have no HOF players on the blue-line anymore, but are they the real reason for our woes?

C. Brodeur? Unfocused? Unmotivated? Did he already lose faith in his team? Or is he still in shock & awe from the news of his old roommate Oliwa being a ogre?

D. Coach Sutter? Did he tick off enough players already that they're shutting him out already? Does he have "it" to be a good NHL good, based on what we've seen so far?

E. Lou L.? Was he secretly sniffing Mike Danton's socks when he made that ludicrous contract with Zubrus?

F. NJ Devils Scouts? What the hell have they been doing for the past 7 years. We have no one worthy to trade or to call up for immediate help this season.

G. All of the above?

IMO ~ If we lose 2 of the next 3 games, I would expect the following:

1. A trade of epic proportions!

2. Sutter drinking some Kool-Aid & switching the team's philosophy back to a defensive game first with heavy forechecking.

And some food for thought. I know a lot of you are Cam Janssen bashers, but if you were to look at the ratio of games the Devils won (with him playing in the game) when compared to the number of losses (with him not playing in the game) the Devils won a lot more games with Cam playing than they lost! Hence, come back soon Cam! We could use the wins! (Plus, some more excitement & energy)

For some reasont the "bigger" Team cant play a lick of the Physical game still. Cam and Colin are really missed.

H. Not playing 60 minutes of hockey. They look good for parts of a game, but the inability to do so consistently throughout the course of the game has hurt them more than anything. This includes coaching adjustments, a lack of focus by the players, etc.

(Why would you blame the scouts is beyond me, they're not on the ice and the Devils continue to draft and sign players who get into the NHL and do fairly well. Blaming Brodeur is ridiculous to the extreme, as well.)

H. Not playing 60 minutes of hockey. They look good for parts of a game, but the inability to do so consistently throughout the course of the game has hurt them more than anything. This includes coaching adjustments, a lack of focus by the players, etc.

H. Is a good one. But...are you saying the whole team is not playing or the offense? Or defense?

(Why would you blame the scouts is beyond me, they're not on the ice and the Devils continue to draft and sign players who get into the NHL and do fairly well. Blaming Brodeur is ridiculous to the extreme, as well.)

I blame the scouts as we don't have any worthwhile prospects with good trade value. Which can explain why we can't get rid of Matvichuk with one of them for...well...anybody!!!

I blame the scouts as we don't have any worthwhile prospects with good trade value. Which can explain why we can't get rid of Matvichuk with one of them for...well...anybody!!!

What???

We get like the 20th pick in the draft every year for like 18 of the last 20 years.

And yet we still produce NHL-quality type players.

Are you expeting to stockpile a team with players similar to Spezza, Crosby, Staal, Malkin or Ovechkin with our yearly draft position?

Ya know what.... we now have all of the crap out of the way, 9 games on the road to start the year, the distraction of the new building opening up and the pressure and heat to win the first game. With all that behind us now let's see what happens.

I HAVE FAITH!

I think one of the biggest problems they have is all the fans that jump the wagon everytime something bad happens to the Devils...

too many questions

What???

We get like the 20th pick in the draft every year for like 18 of the last 20 years.

And yet we still produce NHL-quality type players.

Are you expeting to stockpile a team with players similar to Spezza, Crosby, Staal, Malkin or Ovechkin with our yearly draft position?

Muttley, don't listen to a lick of what the Devils Repairman has to say. He lost all credibility with his "Brodeur is Overrated Thread"

Muttley, don't listen to a lick of what the Devils Repairman has to say. He lost all credibility with his "Brodeur is Overrated Thread"

oh, lol

Is that who it is?

Muttley, don't listen to a lick of what the Devils Repairman has to say. He lost all credibility with his "Brodeur is Overrated Thread"

+Infinity and 1 (just to make sure)

I dont think I'd ever block someone,,,,,but if I ever did.......that would be him after that thread

+Infinity and 1 (just to make sure)

I dont think I'd ever block someone,,,,,but if I ever did.......that would be him after that thread

Haha, honestly how could you guys be giving him feedback with this thread? Next time he starts a thread there should be ZERO responses haha.

H. Is a good one. But...are you saying the whole team is not playing or the offense? Or defense?

Both. In different games and times, perhaps, but both.

(Why would you blame the scouts is beyond me, they're not on the ice and the Devils continue to draft and sign players who get into the NHL and do fairly well. Blaming Brodeur is ridiculous to the extreme, as well.)

I blame the scouts as we don't have any worthwhile prospects with good trade value. Which can explain why we can't get rid of Matvichuk with one of them for...well...anybody!!!

Well, some of those aforementioned worthwhile prospects are with the team NOW. Zach Parise and Travis Zajac are regulars. John Oduya, Andy Greene, Rod Pelley, and David Clarkson are looking to be regulars I'd argue that they have significant effects on the team, mostly good.

In addition, you have in the prospect pool: Nicklas Bergfors was on the opening night roster and will likely get more NHL action later this season. Matthew Corrente had a second extended look in training camp. Guys like Tony Romano Jeff Frazee, and Kirill Tulupov are improving among many other players. Yes, none of these guys can step in and make the team that much better. That's why they are prospects - they may help out the team in the future, but they may not for whatever reason.

And the Devils can't get rid of Matvichuk because he doesn't have speed, he may not have the durability, he isn't the defenseman he once was, and the Devils publicly announced he requested a trade so the Devils are going to get jack for him anyway.

The problem is no one can finish.

I think the problem is the attack plan. We concentrate so much on the forechecking that we forget to charge the net and produce a valid attack. That one goal we had was due to a correctly executed plan and it resulted in a goal. If they can do that instead of all going after the puck, we could probably get more goals.

That means that Sutter needs to stick to a line formation and everyone on that line needs to know their role before the attack.

Were just a camplete clusterpuck right now. Plain and simple we need our best and highest paid players to perform better. When that happens we can compete for a playoff spot. Right now this team has way too many holes to be considerd among the leagues elite. I'll just hope for the best and keep the faith but, this might be a long year if we don't get going soon.

The Devils have issues with everything now. Not one thing is clicking, not one single part of the team. There isn't a single player who is standing out either...

I just don't know how they're going to fix it.

Honestly, we miss Langenbrunner and Colin White, but with them, or defense sucks. Sorry, Oduya is horrible and Paul Martin is not a number one defenseman.

Losing Rafalski was franchise altering. Seriously.

Losing Rafalski was franchise altering. Seriously.

So much more than Gomez it's not even funny.

Muttley, don't listen to a lick of what the Devils Repairman has to say. He lost all credibility with his "Brodeur is Overrated Thread"

That's your opinion. Right now, let's face the facts. Marty's save % is ranked where in the NHL this year?

Marty is a very good goalie. But if he didn't have the luxury of Stevens, Dano, Neids, Rafalski, etc all those years, he wouldn't have half the records he currently owns.

I'm a realist. You guys live in a fantasy world.

That's your opinion. Right now, let's face the facts. Marty's save % is ranked where in the NHL this year?

Marty is a very good goalie. But if he didn't have the luxury of Stevens, Dano, Neids, Rafalski, etc all those years, he wouldn't have half the records he currently owns.

I'm a realist. You guys live in a fantasy world.

Yeah, and if you think we would have won three cups with Chris Terreri and Corey Schwab in net, your living in a fantasy world.

That's your opinion. Right now, let's face the facts. Marty's save % is ranked where in the NHL this year?

Marty is a very good goalie. But if he didn't have the luxury of Stevens, Dano, Neids, Rafalski, etc all those years, he wouldn't have half the records he currently owns.

I'm a realist. You guys live in a fantasy world.

Don't worry, I feel the same way. I am a strong enough person to admit that. So many people live vicariously through athlete's accomplishments that they become a basket case when you criticize that athlete.

Don't worry, I feel the same way. I am a strong enough person to admit that. So many people live vicariously through athlete's accomplishments that they become a basket case when you criticize that athlete.

You have any examples of people becoming a basketcase defending Marty?

Again with the marty bashing lol.........I cant believe the lack of respect for someone that has done so much for this team. Marty stood on his head last two games. Yet the team left him out to dry. Marty can only do so much and if he was allowed to score I beat u he would. We didnt have great D last year too and if it wasnt for Marty probably wouldnt have made it to the PO. So get over your Dano, Stevens, Nieds reason already.

C. Brodeur? Unfocused? Unmotivated? Did he already lose faith in his team? Or is he still in shock & awe from the news of his old roommate Oliwa being a ogre?
lol

All I can say is lol

WHere is this team toughness we seen in preseason. We looked more like a team then. We fought for our teamates, maybe we need some players from Lowell to show what hungry is. This team is not hungry in the corners, in front of the net and in the defensive zone. They don't want the puck.

That's your opinion. Right now, let's face the facts. Marty's save % is ranked where in the NHL this year?

Marty is a very good goalie. But if he didn't have the luxury of Stevens, Dano, Neids, Rafalski, etc all those years, he wouldn't have half the records he currently owns.

I'm a realist. You guys live in a fantasy world.

No you're an idiot. And you must live in a drug-enduced world with those comments. Watch the games pal, Brodeur is back on track, he's the least of the Devils problems.

You have any examples of people becoming a basketcase defending Marty?

Sure. TDR's thread called Brodeur is Overrated. Make a pot of strong coffee and get ready to read thoroughly.

as far as our offense is concerned, I think we are really understanding what Jamie Langenbrunner has meant to us. He was the one that started hot last year, he's our power play QB without Rafalski (NOT Martin), and he's a catalyst because he never quits and plays with grit and determination, and he actually puts the puck in the net from time to time. We really need him back.

Worst run Devils team I've seen in about 17 or 18 years

Worst run Devils team I've seen in about 17 or 18 years

I already deleted one post of yours in another thread about calling up Pat Burns, stop trying to turn every thread into a bash Sutter thread, it's not gonna happen.

Sure. TDR's thread called Brodeur is Overrated. Make a pot of strong coffee and get ready to read thoroughly.

Don't have too, already read it for laughs and didn't see any examples you are talking about, so I'll just assume you got nothing.

I already deleted one post of yours in another thread about calling up Pat Burns, stop trying to turn every thread into a bash Sutter thread, it's not gonna happen.

When Can we talk about the truth? 30 games in? 40 games in? When we have a lottery pick?

as far as our offense is concerned, I think we are really understanding what Jamie Langenbrunner has meant to us. He was the one that started hot last year, he's our power play QB without Rafalski (NOT Martin), and he's a catalyst because he never quits and plays with grit and determination, and he actually puts the puck in the net from time to time. We really need him back.

Totally agree with you on this matter.

Same applies to White & Janssen. We take for granted all the little things these players did to help our team.

If we lose to Tampa on Wednesday, I think a few players should sit it out & think about their role on this team.

There is always someone else waiting to play in a Devils uniform.

anatomy of a devils game.

first period they dominate although the scoreboard doesnt reflect it.
second period self destruct with penalties and not being able the clear the zone.
third period alternate between flashes of brilliance and nothing.


its there, it just has to be put together for 60.

When Can we talk about the truth? 30 games in? 40 games in? When we have a lottery pick?

watch out the sky is falling. grow a pair, its a slow start.

When Can we talk about the truth? 30 games in? 40 games in? When we have a lottery pick?

LOL, as if you dictate what the truth is, stop being so full of yourself man, your opinion is not the only around here that matters, and again, knock off trying to turn every thread into a anti-Sutter thread, this is NOT up to discussion.

Don't have too, already read it for laughs and didn't see any examples you are talking about, so I'll just assume you got nothing.

I guess because you're an Administrator means you have all the answers huh? Okay, I'll bite.

So tell me, let's say you're Lou Lams & Jeff V. walked into your office & told you either you win 10 out of the next 15 games or out the door you go, thanks for the memories.

That being said;

1. Clearly identify the Devils current problems?

2. How would you solve them to win 10 out of next 15 games?

I guess because you're an Administrator means you have all the answers huh? Okay, I'll bite.

So tell me, let's say you're Lou Lams & Jeff V. walked into your office & told you either you win 10 out of the next 15 games or out the door you go, thanks for the memories.


My god, talk about scenario that just isn't going to happen.

Vanderbeek is a fantastic owner, he is not George Steinbrenner.......if it takes a year, it takes a year. We've been blessed to make the playoffs 11 years in a row. We have sustained more losses to our team than any other team in the NHL. Name me one team that has gone from

Scott Niedermayer
Scott Stevens
Colin White
Brian Rafalski

as their top 4 to

Paul Martin
Johnny Oduya
Andy Greene
Vitaly Vishnevski

One team, name just one........go ahead I'll wait forever for the answer that will never come.

We replaced Stevens with Martin, Niedermayer with Oduya, White with Vishneski and Rafalski with Greene.......that's 11 stanley cup rings to ZERO.

Not to mention I'm leaving out Dano, Gomez, Langs, out of this equation as well.

I guess because you're an Administrator means you have all the answers huh? Okay, I'll bite.
Yeah man, they give us a pamphlet with all the answers, get real.


So tell me, let's say you're Lou Lams & Jeff V. walked into your office & told you either you win 10 out of the next 15 games or out the door you go, thanks for the memories.

That being said;

1. Clearly identify the Devils current problems?

2. How would you solve them to win 10 out of next 15 games?

Is that what they did with Brent Sutter? Because when they do, I will then give you solutions to win 10 out of the next 15.

Let me know when this happens.

My god, talk about scenario that just isn't going to happen.

I know, tell me about it.

There are no more excuses. Changes, new faces, road game etc...that's something every team goes through. We just have to face it that the Devils no longer are what they used to be.

I just don't see us getting better with what we have right now. I think this is a year where we probably take several steps back in order to be up there with the better teams again in a year or two. Who knows, it might be for the best.

I know, tell me about it.

Sometimes I have to wonder Ronnie, like, what is going through these guys minds when they post? "Lets think of the most asinine thing in the world, and then drive everyone nuts"

My god, talk about scenario that just isn't going to happen.

Vanderbeek is a fantastic owner, he is not George Steinbrenner.......if it takes a year, it takes a year. We've been blessed to make the playoffs 11 years in a row. We have sustained more losses to our team than any other team in the NHL. Name me one team that has gone from

Scott Niedermayer
Scott Stevens
Colin White
Brian Rafalski

as their top 4 to

Paul Martin
Johnny Oduya
Andy Greene
Vitaly Vishnevski

One team, name just one........go ahead I'll wait forever for the answer that will never come.

We replaced Stevens with Martin, Niedermayer with Oduya, White with Vishneski and Rafalski with Greene.......that's 11 stanley cup rings to ZERO.

Not to mention I'm leaving out Dano, Gomez, Langs, out of this equation as well.

Vanderbeek is a fantastic owner. I never said he wasn't. But if you think the year of opening a new arena he's going to let his team not make the playoffs without some serious changes, you know nothing about business.

If the Devils fail to make the playoffs, or at least start to play more competitive...you can kiss those season ticket holders goodbye next year. Fans are fickle. Fans want to be entertained. And if you're from NJ, you'll understand that NJ fans want what they want; a winner each & every year. Not the crap we're seeing on the ice right now. Escpecially from their Big $$$/Big contract stars. It's not acceptable despite who is no longer on this team. They're being paid to play up to the standard they created. If they can't do it here, Sutter or Lou needs to find out why. If there is a valid reason, tend to it ASAP & get it corrected. If its a personality conflict, ship 'em away...'cause Sutter is going nowhere anytime soon!

Don't have too, already read it for laughs and didn't see any examples you are talking about, so I'll just assume you got nothing.

Right, all those posters who flamed the hell out of TDR and myself were of such sound mind, and oh so polite about it. :shakehead

Yeah man, they give us a pamphlet with all the answers, get real.



Is that what they did with Brent Sutter? Because when they do, I will then give you solutions to win 10 out of the next 15.

Let me know when this happens.

No, of course not. But you see, its always easy for you to criticize posters like myself for voicing our opinion, then for you to show us what you think the problems are & how you would address them if given the chance. But you don't.

If your take on things makes sense, I'm man enough to say, "Hey, you've got a point there." But you offer nothing.

Vanderbeek is a fantastic owner. I never said he wasn't. But if you think the year of opening a new arena he's going to let his team not make the playoffs without some serious changes, you know nothing about business.

If the Devils fail to make the playoffs, or at least start to play more competitive...you can kiss those season ticket holders goodbye next year. Fans are fickle. Fans want to be entertained. And if you're from NJ, you'll understand that NJ fans want what they want; a winner each & every year. Not the crap we're seeing on the ice right now. Escpecially from their Big $$$/Big contract stars. It's not acceptable despite who is no longer on this team. They're being paid to play up to the standard they created. If they can't do it here, Sutter or Lou needs to find out why. If there is a valid reason, tend to it ASAP & get it corrected. If its a personality conflict, ship 'em away...'cause Sutter is going nowhere anytime soon!

All valid points TDR. I just assumed this was another lets bash sutter......which is pointless. We're going to fire the players, not the coach this time. We've been coach killers for too long, and now is the time to stop. Lou and Brent aren't going to take the fall for the players short comings.

I believe the problem is that we can't win and the solution is that we win some games. You're all welcome.

No, of course not. But you see, its always easy for you to criticize posters like myself for voicing our opinion, then for you to show us what you think the problems are & how you would address them if given the chance. But you don't.

If your take on things makes sense, I'm man enough to say, "Hey, you've got a point there." But you offer nothing.

I think you came in on this anti-Sutter crusade a few days later than some of the others who I have debated till I will blue in the face on and I didn't get one inch with any of them, so you will have to excuse me for not trying here. Mostly because I have grown weary of doing it.

Believe me, I know what the problems are, but I also know it's gonna take time to fix these problems and it won't happen overnight by a long shot.

I said it before and I'll say it again and I could care less how old it is, but this team has spoiled people to the point they have lost all patience which we all know is a valuable virtue for a team going through a major rephrase.

All valid points TDR. I just assumed this was another lets bash sutter......which is pointless. We're going to fire the players, not the coach this time. We've been coach killers for too long, and now is the time to stop. Lou and Brent aren't going to take the fall for the players short comings.

Well said DF, well said, if there are cancers on this team we are going to remove them instead of trying to treat them like we have in the past.

The problem is we've lost too many talented players over the years without even coming close to replacing them. We should probably just cut the fat and rebuild, but I don't see that happening with Marty chasing records for the next few years.

None of the above.

The problem at hand is one of confidence.

Confidence is what this team lacks. And as fans, we lack confidence in them. They need something to rally behind, something to get them going.

Cuz if you actually watch them play, which 90% of you don't (too busy jacking off to microscoping Oduya's play), you'll notice we have talent on both our offense and defense.

This team can win games with its current lineup. But they're psychologically not into it.

So in essence, the Devils need to get Kotex as a sponser as everyone on the team is confusing themselves with a dirty tampon.

All valid points TDR. I just assumed this was another lets bash sutter......which is pointless. We're going to fire the players, not the coach this time. We've been coach killers for too long, and now is the time to stop. Lou and Brent aren't going to take the fall for the players short comings.

Not in the least. Sutter is a great coach & is exactly what the Devils need.

I agree with another poster that we are lacking confidence. Which is a huge considering all of our big names are the ones struggling the most when they're the ones who are supposed to be sparking life into this team during times like this.

And yes, as it was stated, we've been spolied by all of the Devils success since Lou took over. But by rights, we should still be successful right now with who we have on our roster.

We have a better roster than Minnesota & San Jose & look at what they're doing when compared to us (right now)

10 games in, ok ill give my nonsensical wishlist
1-elias to be elias again
2-get hossa somehow and sign the fool to a 2-3 year contract
3-get chara somehow
4-hug that anthem singer from yesterday....somehow
5-watch a real devils game again cuz i dunno what ive seen thus far
6-have another bass and a sammich
7-how can i possibly forget.....DUMP ODUYA anywhere, i dont care where. if he and martin are the number 1&2 dmen for the remainder of the season....were in a dilly of a pickle of a jam....adoodlyoodly

Muttley, don't listen to a lick of what the Devils Repairman has to say. He lost all credibility with his "Brodeur is Overrated Thread"

Haha, honestly how could you guys be giving him feedback with this thread? Next time he starts a thread there should be ZERO responses haha.

Don't worry, I feel the same way. I am a strong enough person to admit that. So many people live vicariously through athlete's accomplishments that they become a basket case when you criticize that athlete.

You have any examples of people becoming a basketcase defending Marty?

Sure. TDR's thread called Brodeur is Overrated. Make a pot of strong coffee and get ready to read thoroughly.

Let it go. That was the dumbest thread in recent memory. Re-reading it will give you Downs syndrome.

The problem is we've lost too many talented players over the years without even coming close to replacing them. We should probably just cut the fat and rebuild, but I don't see that happening with Marty chasing records for the next few years.

Agreed, plus I think if we were to go into a complete rebuild, Lou would approach Marty about it first.

Seriously, this team has lost four key players from last year. The only one I think that was adequately replaced was Gomez. How could you expect to win with that defense? Its not coaching, its the execution.

Believe me, I know what the problems are, but I also know it's gonna take time to fix these problems and it won't happen overnight by a long shot.

Only problems is all the problems came over night....Last season 49 Wins First in the East in Defense

This season :dunno: The team didn't loose that many parts to go from first to worst overnight in Defense. There are other problems beyond the players on the ice....There is noway around that fact.

Only problems is all the problems came over night....Last season 49 Wins First in the East in Defense

This season :dunno: The team didn't loose that many parts to go from first to worst overnight in Defense. There are other problems beyond the players on the ice....There is noway around that fact.
Martin and Oduya are the only returning defensemen from last year. Do you still want to stand by your "the team didn't lose that many parts to go from FOURTH to TWENTY-FIFTH in defense."

Also, if you think our defense was spectacular last year, you're delusional.

Confidence. No one can finish. They need a spark. See avatar.

Martin and Oduya are the only returning defensemen from last year. Do you still want to stand by your "the team didn't lose that many parts to go from FOURTH to TWENTY-FIFTH in defense."

Also, if you think our defense was spectacular last year, you're delusional.


First in the EAST.........Yes the Defense is not that much different than last season.

Greene is not a returning defensemen?

Having White out hurts for sure, But he was for most of the playoffs and sporacially during the year..........We used Brooks, Fahey, Frazer and Hale last season! This Defense is arguably BETTER on papper man for man

Only problems is all the problems came over night....Last season 49 Wins First in the East in Defense

This season :dunno: The team didn't loose that many parts to go from first to worst overnight in Defense. There are other problems beyond the players on the ice....There is noway around that fact.

The problems didn't arise overnight, first we lost Stevens, then Neidermeyer, Rafalski, Gomez, the list goes on man, the problem is every year we have always reloaded but we really for the most part are rebuilding, problem is Lou hates that word and probably will never admit this

Having White out hurts for sure, But he was for most of the playoffs and sporacially during the year..........We used Brooks, Fahey, Frazer and Hale last season! This Defense is arguably BETTER on papper man for man

Oh geez, no way man, Rafalski alone makes last years squad better, this years corp playing right now very well might be in the bottom five in the league.

Last years was not.

First in the EAST.........Yes the Defense is not that much different than last season.

Greene is not a returning defensemen?

Having White out hurts for sure, But he was for most of the playoffs and sporacially during the year..........We used Brooks, Fahey, Frazer and Hale last season! This Defense is arguably BETTER on papper man for man

THE GAME IS NOT PLAYED ON PAPER.

And by the way, Alex Brooks and Mark Fraser/David Hale is much better then having Mike Mottau and Sheldon Brookbank in my opinion.

This Defense is arguably BETTER on papper man for man
Did I read this wrong or did you just say the defense this year is better than last's man for man?

Rafalski > Martin
Martin > Oduya
White > Greene
Lukowich > Rachunek
Oduya > Vishnevski
Anyone > Mottau

Greene played a little bit last year but his ice time was limited and Alex Brooks played four less games than him.

Honestly, our defense was terrible last year too but the difference is Brodeur played the first half of the season like the Hart Trophy winner while he's had a slow start this year.

I know you have some sort of massive grudge against Sutter, refuse to believe that this team is different in any way from teams in years past, but saying this year's defense is better that last year's is flat out false.

edit: Also we're 11th in defense in the East.

I would put the blame on the offense and the coaching.
The D is young and just not that good, yet they have played ok. Paul Martin does need to take a lesson from Brookbank and learn how to shoot the puck however.
Marty has played better as of late, and when he was struggling there were a lot of tip ins and weird goals that don't always happen.

The offense and the coaching are supposed to be positives, and all of a sudden we can't find the net. Elias is a huge problem.
Although I think Sutter will be great, he needs to calm down with switching line combox every night and stick with something. BTW Brylin-Parise-Gionta is the dumbest combo in hockey. You can't have three tiny guys on a line together that try to cycle the puck down low. They got man-handled last night.

We went from

Stevens-Niedermayer 2 HOF's

to

Rafalski-Martin - A top pairing/top 4 d-man

to

Martin-Oduya - A top 4 d-man/3rd pairing d-man

This is where you draw the line. SOMETHING has to be done about our D. Even if we got White back, we still need to improve in that department. I personally think our D has been crappy for the past 2 seasons. I was begging for a trade because I felt that we needed help and Raffy wasn't capable of filling the #1 d-man role. Now we're in an even worse situation. I strongly believe that acquiring a cannon for the blue line will solve half of our offensive problems. Right now, our forwards aren't getting anything to work with. No deflections, no bounces. It's really frustrating to watch.

Martin and Oduya are the only returning defensemen from last year. Do you still want to stand by your "the team didn't lose that many parts to go from FOURTH to TWENTY-FIFTH in defense."

Also, if you think our defense was spectacular last year, you're delusional.

you can include greene too.

you can include greene too.
I didn't count him because he didn't play that much last season.

Rafalski > Martin
Martin > Oduya
White > Greene
Lukowich > Rachunek
Oduya > Vishnevski
Anyone > Mottau



Oduya is two on our depth chart :nono: Greene - Vishnevski - Rachunek are higher than Oduya.

Take White out of the mix...He was injured during the course of last year that is why we saw the revolving door and Brooks played so many games....White injured last year meant Brooks and Frazer White injured this season = Mottau and Brookbank....same thing...

We basically replaced Rafalski with Greene and Lukowich with Vishnevski and added Ruchunek for depth....I don't see the loss defensively whatsoever. The difference is style of play

Oduya is two on our depth chart :nono: Greene - Vishnevski - Rachunek are higher than Oduya.

Take White out of the mix...He was injured during the course of last year that is why we saw the revolving door and Brooks played so many games....White injured last year meant Brooks and Frazer White injured this season = Mottau and Brookbank....same thing...

We basically replaced Rafalski with Greene and Lukowich with Vishnevski and added Ruchunek for depth....I don't see the loss defensively whatsoever. The difference is style of play
Johnny Oduya has the second most TOI even strength and shorthanded. Colin White played 69 games last year, don't make it sound like he played 20.

Did I read this wrong or did you just say the defense this year is better than last's man for man?

Rafalski > Martin
Martin > Oduya
White > Greene
Lukowich > Rachunek
Oduya > Vishnevski
Anyone > Mottau

Greene played a little bit last year but his ice time was limited and Alex Brooks played four less games than him.

Honestly, our defense was terrible last year too but the difference is Brodeur played the first half of the season like the Hart Trophy winner while he's had a slow start this year.

I know you have some sort of massive grudge against Sutter, refuse to believe that this team is different in any way from teams in years past, but saying this year's defense is better that last year's is flat out false.

edit: Also we're 11th in defense in the East.

wait, do you have oduya better than vishnevksi?? even last years oduya is not better than vishnevski

Johnny Oduya has the second most TOI even strength and shorthanded. Colin White played 69 games last year, don't make it sound like he played 20.

Sounds like a coaching decision/problem to me :dunno:

Sounds like a coaching decision/problem to me :dunno:
Fine, have it your way...Oduya's fourth on the depth chart:

Rafalski > Martin
Martin > Greene
White > Rachunek
Lukowich > Oduya
Oduya > Vishnevski
Anyone > Mottau

There is no WAY this year's defense is better than last year's on paper.

Oduya is a fine third pairing guy. Vishnevski is an automatic icing every time he touches the puck. He can throw hits, but he can't keep the puck out of the net.

Fine, have it your way...Oduya's fourth on the depth chart:

Rafalski > Martin
Martin > Greene
White > Rachunek
Lukowich > Oduya
Oduya > Vishnevski
Anyone > Mottau

There is no WAY this year's defense is better than last year's on paper.

Oduya is a fine third pairing guy. Vishnevski is an automatic icing every time he touches the puck. He can throw hits, but he can't keep the puck out of the net.




Rafalski = Martin+ A plus goes to martin defensively
Martin = Greene Every bit as good if not better
13 game Injured White = Injured White for another few games
Lukowich = Vishnevski Adds a much more physical presense
Oduya < Oduya A year older should be better
Other < Ruchnek

Rafalski = Martin+ A plus goes to martin defensively



No, no, no, Jim....it not even close.

Rafalski = Martin+ A plus goes to martin defensively
Martin = Greene Every bit as good if not better
13 game Injured White = Injured White for another few games
Lukowich = Vishnevski Adds a much more physical presense
Oduya < Oduya A year older should be better
Other < Ruchnek
Wait, I thought you were talking about our defensive performance thus far? You can't include White and he's not going to be back in "another few games." Try "another few months."

Really, your opinion of our defense is either very delusional or you're skewing things to make your argument sound better. Jim, you've been all over Sutter since game three and refuse to admit that he has a crappy team to work with. Your logic is getting pretty circular and it's breaking down. "Our defense is better on paper this year than last. (while including White)" "Sutter completely wrecked the defense this year!" (while failing to acknowledge White's absence)

edit: Not to mention Rafalski is much better than Martin, Martin last year was much better than Greene this year, Lukowich is a HELL of a lot better than Vish this year, etc. You also can't put Oduya up against himself because he isn't playing the same spot in the depth chart.

We have a better roster than Minnesota & San Jose & look at what they're doing when compared to us (right now)

Another pearl of wisdom.

We have a better roster than Minnesota & San Jose & look at what they're doing when compared to us (right now)


No Freakin way are we better then a team with Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau and Milan Michelek and a team that plays responsible defensively and a Goalie just hitting his prime in Nabakov. NO........FREAKIN...........WAY..... That is insane times 2. SJ is considered one of the favorites to contend for a top seed in a strong Western Conference.

And Minnesota, while not considered an elite team or even one of the favorites in the West have star player doing their jobs unlike the Devils. Gaborik is insane and Rolston and Bouchard are producing and Backstrom is incredible and we all know how solid their defense is.

That was totally insane what you said Devils Repairman.

If you're talking in terms of potential, I can see where the argument could be made that this year's defense is as good as last year's. But if you're talking right now, I think it's a hard sell. Martin may very well end up being as good or better than Rafalski, but he isn't at this point in his career. Greene, while being compared by many to Rafalski, is still unproven at the NHL level. Oduya is still unproven. Rachunek can be good, but has had injury issues. Vishnevski is okay, but that's about it. Mottau/Brookbank are depth defensemen at best.

Losing Rafalski alone was enough to downgrade the defense. Granted, he had his issues but I still think many would consider him a top 10 defenseman in the NHL. Is anybody on the Devils roster even close to that?

No Freakin way are we better then a team with Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau and Milan Michelek and a team that plays responsible defensively and a Goalie just hitting his prime in Nabakov. NO........FREAKIN...........WAY..... That is insane times 2. SJ is considered one of the favorites to contend for a top seed in a strong Western Conference.

And Minnesota, while not considered an elite team or even one of the favorites in the West have star player doing their jobs unlike the Devils. Gaborik is insane and Backstrom is incredible and we all know how solid theire defense is.

That was totally insane what you said Devils Repairman.


I didn't even have to guess about who said that: I knew that it was Devils' Repairman. I'm speechless about the San Jose comment and even your vastly incorrect about Minnesota. You keep digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole, you'll never get credibility back here

I didn't even have to guess about who said that: I knew that it was Devils' Repairman. I'm speechless about the San Jose comment and even your vastly incorrect about Minnesota. You keep digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole, you'll never get credibility back here

I am assuming you mean The Devils Repairman is digging himself the hole and not getting credibility.

If you're talking in terms of potential, I can see where the argument could be made that this year's defense is as good as last year's.
The thing is, with everyone (not everyone I know, really) jumping off cliffs at our start you can't play the "potential" game when comparing the two defenses. You can only go off of what Sutter has to work with, and it isn't much.

The thing is, with everyone (not everyone I know, really) jumping off cliffs at our start you can't play the "potential" game when comparing the two defenses. You can only go off of what Sutter has to work with, and it isn't much.

I agree with that.........My point is this defense is EVERY BIT as good as last years.

If you remember there were certain points of last season when Brooks and Fraser were in the lineup and Lukowich was playing 25 minutes a game. And we won!

We simply did MORE with as much as we have now.

The thing is, with everyone (not everyone I know, really) jumping off cliffs at our start you can't play the "potential" game when comparing the two defenses. You can only go off of what Sutter has to work with, and it isn't much.

The thing is, with the laid-back, defense-first system that we ran last year under Juliens, we could hide the mediocre talent we had on defense. Now this year, we are running a more balanced system which cannot hide the worse talent that we have this year. If we want this system to totally work, we need to have big-time defensemen.

The thing is, with the laid-back, defense-first system that we ran last year under Juliens, we could hide the mediocre talent we had on defense. Now this year, we are running a more balanced system which cannot hide the worse talent that we have this year. If we want this system to totally work, we need to have big-time defensemen.

BINGO!!!! That is it in a nutshell!

BINGO!!!! That is it in a nutshell!

That's what people like TDR are missing. This roster stinks. The trap can make up for lack of talent that we had these past few years. However, we cannot win the cup in any system, last year or this year with these guys. The neglect of signing big time free agents is catching up with us. We cannot expect to fill our losses with bottom of first round picks all the time, Parise and Zajac are obvious exceptions. When the talent is not coming through the first 15 picks of the draft all the time, talent has to come in another way.

That's what people like TDR are missing. This roster stinks. The trap can make up for lack of talent that we had these past few years. However, we cannot win the cup in any system, last year or this year with these guys. The neglect of signing big time free agents is catching up with us. We cannot expect to fill our losses with bottom of first round picks all the time, Parise and Zajac are obvious exceptions. When the talent is not coming through the first 15 picks of the draft all the time, talent has to come in another way.

Well if things go as planned we should have a decent amount of cap room for next years UFA's, knock on wood there will be anything decent out there this year.

Did I read this wrong or did you just say the defense this year is better than last's man for man?

Rafalski > Martin
Martin > Oduya
White > Greene
Lukowich > Rachunek
Oduya > Vishnevski
Anyone > Mottau

Greene played a little bit last year but his ice time was limited and Alex Brooks played four less games than him.

Honestly, our defense was terrible last year too but the difference is Brodeur played the first half of the season like the Hart Trophy winner while he's had a slow start this year.

I know you have some sort of massive grudge against Sutter, refuse to believe that this team is different in any way from teams in years past, but saying this year's defense is better that last year's is flat out false.

edit: Also we're 11th in defense in the East.

oudya is not better than vishnevski

Well if things go as planned we should have a decent amount of cap room for next years UFA's, knock on wood there will be anything decent out there this year.

That's all well and good, but when you open up a brand new arena, you need to put a good product out there on the ice to make people keep coming back for more. The fact that the roster was neglected this offseason is an atrocity.

The thing is, with the laid-back, defense-first system that we ran last year under Juliens, we could hide the mediocre talent we had on defense. Now this year, we are running a more balanced system which cannot hide the worse talent that we have this year. If we want this system to totally work, we need to have big-time defensemen.

For the last time, last year's D, though crappy, was way better than what we've had on the ice recently.

Also, we counted on our mediocre D waaay too much during the past two seasons and that caused us to get manhandled by Carolina and Ottawa in the Playoffs. It doesn't matter whether we play the neutral zone trap or the "offensive zone trap", we still need a #1 defenceman who has the ability to put up points, and create scoring chances for our forwards. Patty should not be playing point man on the PP like Langs did for the past two seasons.

That's all well and good, but when you open up a brand new arena, you need to put a good product out there on the ice to make people keep coming back for more. The fact that the roster was neglected this offseason is an atrocity.

Actually, if there is any season for a mini rebuild to occur it would be the inaugural season of a new arena. It is an attraction and considered something to see and do. The novelty would wear off eventually and then your point is valid. If this is the same team on ice to begin next season and we miss the playoffs or do nt live up to expectations then attendance will be effected. I really feel that if Snoopy and Burt and Ernie were on the Devils this season, the attraction of the Arena itself will draw people there.


And also despite the fact that a lot of Devils fans are idiots, many recognize the Devils as a notably winning organization and that they have a tradition of high standards and will find a way to win. This organization along with the Yankees and Pats and maybe the Spurs and Wings (we each have 3 Cups the tie breaker being we beat them in the Cup in 95) is the top franchise in sports over the course of the last 13 years.

On Xm Radio the other day I heard Lou say one of the reasons he did not invest a lot of money this season (when he was preaching fiscal responsibility this past offseason) is because they want this arena to be profitable and work.

That's all well and good, but when you open up a brand new arena, you need to put a good product out there on the ice to make people keep coming back for more. The fact that the roster was neglected this offseason is an atrocity.
Who did you want them to sign and where would the money come from? Honestly, try to build a better team keeping in mind you don't know about the White injury and you want to have enough cap space so Parise or Martin doesn't get poached by Kevin Lowe.

If you're talking about putting an entertaining product on the ice, we have one. The Sens game was plenty entertaining. Now if we played the 96 Panthers or early Wild trap we'd have marginally more success but bore the hell out of the fans.

With the number of GMs in training on this board, I'm not worried about when Lou leaves office anymore.

For the last time, last year's D, though crappy, was way better than what we've had on the ice recently.

Also, we counted on our mediocre D waaay too much during the past two seasons and that caused us to get manhandled by Carolina and Ottawa in the Playoffs. It doesn't matter whether we play the neutral zone trap or the "offensive zone trap", we still need a #1 defenceman who has the ability to put up points, and create scoring chances for our forwards. Patty should not be playing point man on the PP like Langs did for the past two seasons.

Just the fact that Brian Rafalski anchored the blueline and Paul Martin was not given the role of being #1 defense man I agree with.

But I do think JimEIV makes a fair point that it is more or less what we make of the defenseman we have and how we use them.

The fact that the roster was neglected this offseason is an atrocity.

Like other have said who did you want him to sign? You can not build a team through free agency, in any sport. The reason being is the top, top tier players now a day never reach free agency because they are locked up by there current teams. And if a big name player reaches free agency you have to ask what's wrong and why has he reached it. What is available are the second tier players and there are a few of them available which drives up the price (which is a problem is a capped world). Look at Scott Gomez, he's a nice 70 point player but because there were few centers on the market that drove his price tag up to where for this year salary wise he is making more than Joe Thornton who signed an extension over the summer.

Sure bringing in big free agents gives a lot of hype and creates media buzz but more often than not it doesn't help one win. Look at the Rangers so far this year they made to splashy FA signings and so far the are tied with the Devils in the standings. You can not just go out and over pay for Free agents it will end up costing you cap wise.

The way you build a successful championship caliber team is through the draft and good trade. Right now the Devils don't have the assets to make such trades. That's the price of success, if you look at the guys the Devils gave up to get those key players in trades through the years most of them were drafted in the early 90's when were drafting lower because they were finishing 4th in the division.

Sometimes a team has to take a step back before going forward this might be a season where the Devils take a step back. Sure it suck as the team is entering a new building but that's what happens when the arena project gets delayed 8-10 years. The team was setup to win the Cup in a new building (2003) but because of politics the arena didn't happen until now. I remember walking out of the arena in 2001 talking about how great the new arena would be in 2-3 years.

Another pearl of wisdom.

Really? Why is that? We have Martin Brodeur -- the world's greatest goalie!!! He's all your savior, isn't he? Won't he bring us to the promise land?

Oh wait!?! I meant "was" the greatest goalie when we had a defense that made him look better than he is. Sorry.

Really? Why is that? We have Martin Brodeur -- the world's greatest goalie!!! He's all your savior, isn't he? Won't he bring us to the promise land?

Oh wait!?! I meant "was" the greatest goalie when we had a defense that made him look better than he is. Sorry.

This coming from a guy who thinks we are as good as a team with Cheechoo, Thornton, Mihalek and Thornton. :shakehead


As it has already been mentioned, see how many Cups we win between 1994 and now if Chris Terreri or Corey Schwab was our starting goalie.

No Freakin way are we better then a team with Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau and Milan Michelek and a team that plays responsible defensively and a Goalie just hitting his prime in Nabakov. NO........FREAKIN...........WAY..... That is insane times 2. SJ is considered one of the favorites to contend for a top seed in a strong Western Conference.

And Minnesota, while not considered an elite team or even one of the favorites in the West have star player doing their jobs unlike the Devils. Gaborik is insane and Rolston and Bouchard are producing and Backstrom is incredible and we all know how solid their defense is.

That was totally insane what you said Devils Repairman.

Joe Thornton ~ I thought Elias was as great as him? Hmmmmm
Patrick Marleau ~ Brian Gionta is as good as him, right? Hmmmmm
Milan Michelek ~ Zach Parise he's not as good as him? Damn!?!

Goalie just hitting his prime in Nabakov ~ We have Marty! Isn't he the Goalie GOD?

Boy, you got me there. We are inferior!!!

I guess my thread should have been this:

NJ Devils ~ The Most Overrated Team (Next To Rutgers Football)

Joe Thornton ~ I thought Elias was as great as him? Hmmmmm
Patrick Marleau ~ Brian Gionta is as good as him, right? Hmmmmm
Milan Michelek ~ Zach Parise he's not as good as him? Damn!?!

Goalie just hitting his prime in Nabakov ~ We have Marty! Isn't he the Goalie GOD?

Boy, you got me there. We are inferior!!!

I guess my thread should have been this:

NJ Devils ~ The Most Overrated Team (Next To Rutgers Football)

You said that we have a better roster then San Jose. :shakehead:shakehead:shakehead

You are smoking some serious crack my friend. Lay off of it.

We are no where in the same league as the Sharks. Joe Thornton is one of the top 3 players in hockey and Marleau and him form the top 2 Centers as a down the middle tandem in the league.

Cheechoo is mountains better then Brian Gionta.

I would pick up Kyle McLaren at the airport if he was coming to NJ.


There is no point in timje we will ever be better then San Jose this season on paper or on ice. Stick that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

Jim, you've been all over Sutter since game three and refuse to admit that he has a crappy team to work with.

Simple Question..........If Jaques Lemaire was coaching this very team would we in the same position?

You said that we have a better roster then San Jose.

You are smoking some serious crack my friend. Lay off of it.

We are no where in the same league as the Sharks. Joe Thornton is one of the top 3 players in hockey and Marleau and him form the top 2 Centers as a down the middle tandem in the league.

Cheechoo is mountains better then Brian Gionta.

I would pick up Kyle McLaren at the airport if he was coming to NJ.


There is no point in timje we will ever be better then San Jose this season on paper or on ice. Stick that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

No time. I just left your sister's & I'm heading over to your mom's! :naughty: ;)

Simple Question..........If Jaques Lemaire was coaching this very team would we in the same position?

YES!!!!

YES!!!!

+1. Sorry Sutter isn't MacGyver, he can't make garbage into special weapons. Neither can Lemaire, or LL, or Pat Burns (that's right I said it).

Simple Question..........If Jaques Lemaire was coaching this very team would we in the same position?

I love these kind of questions, mainly because there is no right or wrong answer, because nobody could prove it one way or the other. Who the hell knows if Jacques Lemaire would be winning with this same team. Would Lemaire have the same personnel turnover, injuries, and implementation of a new system that Sutter is dealing with?

You can pine for the glory days all you want to, but it's not going to happen. Face the facts, the Devils are in a transition period. There's going to be a lot of ups and downs during the process, we might as well all get used to it. Yeah it sucks because we're used to watching the Devils contend for the division and finish high in the standings every year, but maybe this is the year they don't. I really do think that some Devils fans' expectations are too high this season. I know the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup, but sometimes you have to face reality and change things up in the organization before you get to that point. The Devils could have hired another lame duck coach like Julien, and kept the same conservative defensive system, and we'd all be sitting here in April or May watching the Devils lose in the first or second round again.

I love these kind of questions, mainly because there is no right or wrong answer, because nobody could prove it one way or the other. Who the hell knows if Jacques Lemaire would be winning with this same team. Would Lemaire have the same personnel turnover, injuries, and implementation of a new system that Sutter is dealing with?

You can pine for the glory days all you want to, but it's not going to happen. Face the facts, the Devils are in a transition period. There's going to be a lot of ups and downs during the process, we might as well all get used to it. Yeah it sucks because we're used to watching the Devils contend for the division and finish high in the standings every year, but maybe this is the year they don't. I really do think that some Devils fans' expectations are too high this season. I know the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup, but sometimes you have to face reality and change things up in the organization before you get to that point. The Devils could have hired another lame duck coach like Julien, and kept the same conservative defensive system, and we'd all be sitting here in April or May watching the Devils lose in the first or second round again.


This completely sums up why I have been trying to say for the last week it seems, bravo Mad Devil. Brilliant post.

I love the Devils but I always hated their boring, defensive style. I loved the team for who they were, the state they represent, the best colors in hockey, and their consistency.

anatomy of a devils game.

first period they dominate although the scoreboard doesnt reflect it.
second period self destruct with penalties and not being able the clear the zone.
third period alternate between flashes of brilliance and nothing.


its there, it just has to be put together for 60.

You forgot Oduya dropping his stick, and a penatly called on us for (breathing) and then getting scored on.

You forgot Oduya dropping his stick, and a penatly called on us for (breathing) and then getting scored on.
To be fair, I cringed once Brylin stuck out his arm. It was a penalty, whether the refs call it, that's up to the individual ref. Kerry Fraser would have let it go but he's an old school ref. The simple fact is, you shouldn't put your team's fate in the hands of a ref's judgment call, which is something we've been doing far too often.

Most of the penalties we've taken have been absolutely pointless. It's one thing if you prevent a scoring chance, but to hook a guy and still let him get to the puck first? That's just frustratingly stupid.

Who did you want them to sign and where would the money come from? Honestly, try to build a better team keeping in mind you don't know about the White injury and you want to have enough cap space so Parise or Martin doesn't get poached by Kevin Lowe.

If you're talking about putting an entertaining product on the ice, we have one. The Sens game was plenty entertaining. Now if we played the 96 Panthers or early Wild trap we'd have marginally more success but bore the hell out of the fans.

With the number of GMs in training on this board, I'm not worried about when Lou leaves office anymore.

How about resigning Brad Lukowich? He wanted to re-sign here, but Lou felt we had enought "great" defenseman. So we signed Karel Rachunek and Vitaly Vishnevski to add to our mediocrity. How about signing Mike Comrie? He would have aptly filled the hole left by Gomez, not to mention about the fact that our "replacement" for Gomez is Dainus Zubrus who is signed until 2300. These offseason singings smell alot alike the "tremendous trio" of McGillis, Malakhov, and Mogilny from two years ago.

:sigh:

My head hurts now... :doh:

While Karel Rachunek has been atrocious, I think Vishnevski has actually been very good. Vish adds an element of size and physicality that Luko really couldn't. I don't think Comrie really fit what the Devils were looking for (size), which Zubrus has plenty of. The 6 years was insane. We also don't know how much Comrie wanted to go to the Devils, where he wouldn't necessarily be slotted in as the #1 center no matter what, which is significant because he's just using this year to get big money and a long-term deal next year. Let's not act like Comrie is the ideal #1 center either. He has a career high of 60 pts.

Just to comment on the penalties, they've really been undisciplined this year. They've taken so many unnecessary penalties. I would like to say that they are because they are more aggressive, but I can't. Too many bad penalties, and a still horrifyingly bad PK. OT, but does anyone know why Oduya is 2nd on the team (3:16/g, 19sec behind Martin) in shorthanded TOI? Why use a player whose weakness is battling for pucks and making bad decisions in a situation that requires those two skills as much as anything? To anticipate your response, I don't know who I want getting that time instead of Oduya, although maybe give Vishnevski some of that time. We desperately need Colin White back.

The Devils could have hired another lame duck coach like Julien, and kept the same conservative defensive system, and we'd all be sitting here in April or May watching the Devils lose in the first or second round again.

And this is the crux of my entire beef......

This is exactly what I want!!!

As game goer, as a fan, As someone who is going to spend $300 for a night out to see the team; I'd rather have a competitve team and first round exit while we rebuild. I rather be swept in the first round after another 40 win and 100 point season than watch what we are seeing now.

Deep in our hearts we all knew last years team was going Nowhere. They weren't that good but they provided what every fan wants....WINS! And regularly.

I'm sorry...I want my team of "Interchangable Parts" back. That philosophy is what this franchise was built on....Don't tell me for one second that I am going to have sit and endure this crap until the next Scott Stevens or Scott Niedermayer comes along....We did it for for the last 2 years without that cailber of defensemen what is Different now??? The only thing that is different is Sutter.

While Karel Rachunek has been atrocious, I think Vishnevski has actually been very good. Vish adds an element of size and physicality that Luko really couldn't. I don't think Comrie really fit what the Devils were looking for (size), which Zubrus has plenty of. The 6 years was insane. We also don't know how much Comrie wanted to go to the Devils, where he wouldn't necessarily be slotted in as the #1 center no matter what, which is significant because he's just using this year to get big money and a long-term deal next year. Let's not act like Comrie is the ideal #1 center either. He has a career high of 60 pts.

Just to comment on the penalties, they've really been undisciplined this year. They've taken so many unnecessary penalties. I would like to say that they are because they are more aggressive, but I can't. Too many bad penalties, and a still horrifyingly bad PK. OT, but does anyone know why Oduya is 2nd on the team (3:16/g, 19sec behind Martin) in shorthanded TOI? Why use a player whose weakness is battling for pucks and making bad decisions in a situation that requires those two skills as much as anything? To anticipate your response, I don't know who I want getting that time instead of Oduya, although maybe give Vishnevski some of that time. We desperately need Colin White back.

I probably haven't given Vishnevski enough time yet and he hasn't been that bad, but I still would take Lukowich over Rachunek in a hearbeat.

As Zubrus goes, I think that he's throw everything off-kilter offensively. He couldn't cut it as Center so we had to try him at Right Wing, and we keep having to change line combinations. If we had Comrie we'd have a stable Center (we've never had a #1 center in the past few years so I don't see how that matters) to play with Elias and Gionta or whoever we put with him. Right now there doesn't seem to be much organization with this team. An occasional line mix-up is fine, but I'm tired of seeing this everyday.

And I'm not even a big Colin White fan, but we need him and Langs back desperately.

And this is the crux of my entire beef......

This is exactly what I want!!!

As game goer, as a fan, As someone who is going to spend $300 for a night out to see the team; I'd rather have a competitve team and first round exit while we rebuild. I rather be swept in the first round after another 40 win and 100 point season than watch what we are seeing now.

Deep in our hearts we all knew last years team was going Nowhere. They weren't that good but they provided what every fan wants....WINS! And regularly.

I'm sorry...I want my team of "Interchangable Parts" back. That philosophy is what this franchise was built on....Don't tell me for one second that I am going to have sit and endure this crap until the next Scott Stevens or Scott Niedermayer comes along....We did it for for the last 2 years without that cailber of defensemen what is Different now??? The only thing that is different is Sutter.

Jim, We are a respectable team even with the defense we have now. The Devils are good enough to make the playoffs this year when all said and done, and even though the organization has higher goals which I love that they do, I am a realistic fan who just asks for respectiablilty and making the playoffs.

Remember in 05-06 when we were lost at the midway point of the season. We were a.500 team We had a couple of 9 game winning streaks and then went nuts at the end of the year and won 11 straight and swept the Rangers.

All that had to happen was our big players got hot. Brodeur stepped it up and Elias was insane. That just shows that when utilizing the players the right way and getting the most out of them we can be a competitive team.

I'll admit that I couldn't read every post in this thread, but I feel like I should put in my two cents.

We, as Devils fans, are not used to our team losing. The start to this season has made everyone on this board a little (sarcasm) cranky. We all need to take a deep breath and think about whats happened so far.

Starting the season on the road is not easy, not to mention playing the first NINE games of the season on the road. For starting off with that schedule, 3-5-1 is not all that bad considering what happened to the team this offseason.

After starting the first nine on the road the team had to come home and play in a brand new arena with many more fans than they are used to playing in front of. Granted, they should get used to it because that was one of the ideas behind the whole new arena. There is some serious pressure there especially for the kids on the team IE: Clarkson, Greene, Oduya, Pelly, Brookbank. The pressure is most likely also greater on the newer team members IE: Zubrus, Asham, and Vish. I know that they are profesionals, but there is still some added pressure with this scenario. Also missing Langs and White has put a lot of pressure on some of the kids and newbies as well.

So now we're 3-6-1. There are teams that are a lot worse this year. We all just need to be thankful that we're not 1-9-1.

Lou and Jeff V. will do whats right for this team, HAVE FAITH!

Sorry for the long winded sermon.

LET'S GO DEVILS!

I probably haven't given Vishnevski enough time yet and he hasn't been that bad, but I still would take Lukowich over Rachunek in a hearbeat.

As Zubrus goes, I think that he's throw everything off-kilter offensively. He couldn't cut it as Center so we had to try him at Right Wing, and we keep having to change line combinations. If we had Comrie we'd have a stable Center (we've never had a #1 center in the past few years so I don't see how that matters) to play with Elias and Gionta or whoever we put with him. Right now there doesn't seem to be much organization with this team. An occasional line mix-up is fine, but I'm tired of seeing this everyday.

And I'm not even a big Colin White fan, but we need him and Langs back desperately.
The issue with Comrie is then we would have three tiny players in our top 6, one of them as a center. I'd take Parise as a center, defensively, over Comrie. I think once Langs comes back we're okay, then we have a much more capable top 6 and more flexibility.

And while Gomez isn't an 7.5mil$ center, he also is a lot better than Comrie, despite their early season numbers.

Did anyone see the "Greatest Hits" video segment on the scoreboard during the game Saturday? How many of them were Colin White skating backwards then stepping forward and levelling the guy with the puck? It seemed like half of them were.

We could use a bit more Colin White on defense right now, IMO.

And if by chance an honest man like yourself should make enemies, then they would become my enemies, ..... and then they will fear you.

[QUOTE=The Devils Repairman;10960096]After watching the Devils stink up their brand new place...where do we point the finger of the problem?

A. The Offense?

We miss Gomez in that he was Creative. We dont have specifically creative players, or playmakers for that reason. We have offensively gifted players that can fill in on plays, but no "quarterback" if you will.
And yes, we need to get better shots off. I think we did better against Ottawa

B. The Defense?
Defense has been struggling a little, but more so from just bad decision making. Lots of bad bounces/breaks for the team as a whole this year

C. Brodeur?
He's fine. He's been back to normal the past 2 games. Any team in the league would welcome him as their starter.

D. Coach Sutter?
I think Sutter's offensive system would have worked better last season w/ Gomez. It almost seams that this season, because our D isn't as strong and our offense isn't as creative, that the old Devils Defense system would be more approrpiate.

E. Lou L.?
Zubrus is worth that $$. How can we blame one single player when the team as a whole isn't scoring (except mandolfo). It wasn't too much, and the guy hustles.
But, I do think Lou should have gone for someone more creative on offense, and maybe a better D-man. Maybe this is his "rebuilding year" In which case, this isn't too horrible of a rebuilding year so far

F. NJ Devils Scouts?
Mentioned before, we don't get early draft picks. Martin, Parise, Greene... those guys haven't made anything of themselves :sarcasm:

Cam might be a great help in the locker room, don't personally know. We're missing White BADLY, and Langenbrunner should help out a little bit. I'm expecting a big trade soon, but for who?

Also, Hossa's contract is up this year :naughty:

Also, Hossa's contract is up this year :naughty:

... and he's already made it known he wants out of there...

The issue with Comrie is then we would have three tiny players in our top 6, one of them as a center. I'd take Parise as a center, defensively, over Comrie. I think once Langs comes back we're okay, then we have a much more capable top 6 and more flexibility.

And while Gomez isn't an 7.5mil$ center, he also is a lot better than Comrie, despite their early season numbers.

I'd rather have another tiny player than a Viktor Kozlov wanabe. And if you say that Comrie is not as good as Gomez, then Zubrus isn't even in the same league as Gomez. Also, I'm not too worried about Comrie's defense considering that the whole Devils team has forgot about the word "defense".

And this is the crux of my entire beef......

This is exactly what I want!!!

As game goer, as a fan, As someone who is going to spend $300 for a night out to see the team; I'd rather have a competitve team and first round exit while we rebuild. I rather be swept in the first round after another 40 win and 100 point season than watch what we are seeing now.

Deep in our hearts we all knew last years team was going Nowhere. They weren't that good but they provided what every fan wants....WINS! And regularly.

I'm sorry...I want my team of "Interchangable Parts" back. That philosophy is what this franchise was built on....Don't tell me for one second that I am going to have sit and endure this crap until the next Scott Stevens or Scott Niedermayer comes along....We did it for for the last 2 years without that cailber of defensemen what is Different now??? The only thing that is different is Sutter.

I'm pretty sure it's one or the other.

We have a better roster than Minnesota & San Jose & look at what they're doing when compared to us (right now)


We have a better roster than San Jose?

Are you kidding me?

Thornton > Elias
Cheechoo > Gionta
Marleau > Zajac
Rivet > Martin
Michalek > Zubrus
Ehrhoff > Greene
Carle > Oduya

Clowe < Parise
3rd line < Madden/Pando/Clarkson
Other D = Other D

Obviously, Nabokov is no Marty, but he's consistenly one of the better goalies in the league.

I'm sorry...I want my team of "Interchangable Parts" back. That philosophy is what this franchise was built on....Don't tell me for one second that I am going to have sit and endure this crap until the next Scott Stevens or Scott Niedermayer comes along....We did it for for the last 2 years without that cailber of defensemen what is Different now??? The only thing that is different is Sutter.

Our team of interchangable parts has won just 11 playoff games since the 2003 cup. Regular season points are fine, but this team has NOT been a legitimate Stanley Cup contender in the "New NHL" era. Carolina skated circles around them in 04/05 and they were clearly not in Ottawa's class last year. Indeed, Zach Parise was pretty much the only reason why they even slipped by Tampa Bay.

I agree, we are in transition. But if we get lucky and Lou get's back to doing his job, which is putting together a winning team, something he hasn't been doing well of late (Yes, I said it.) It doesn't take as long has it used to in becoming a playoff team and better.

Did anyone see the "Greatest Hits" video segment on the scoreboard during the game Saturday? How many of them were Colin White skating backwards then stepping forward and levelling the guy with the puck? It seemed like half of them were.

We could use a bit more Colin White on defense right now, IMO.

I pointed that out to my wife too - it seemed like every other one was White.

I love these kind of questions, mainly because there is no right or wrong answer, because nobody could prove it one way or the other. Who the hell knows if Jacques Lemaire would be winning with this same team. Would Lemaire have the same personnel turnover, injuries, and implementation of a new system that Sutter is dealing with?

You can pine for the glory days all you want to, but it's not going to happen. Face the facts, the Devils are in a transition period. There's going to be a lot of ups and downs during the process, we might as well all get used to it. Yeah it sucks because we're used to watching the Devils contend for the division and finish high in the standings every year, but maybe this is the year they don't. I really do think that some Devils fans' expectations are too high this season. I know the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup, but sometimes you have to face reality and change things up in the organization before you get to that point. The Devils could have hired another lame duck coach like Julien, and kept the same conservative defensive system, and we'd all be sitting here in April or May watching the Devils lose in the first or second round again.

100% agree. And I'm sorry but this interchangeable parts line is BS. If the parts are so interchangeable why weren't we able to replace a Stevns or Niedermayer with just another part. That line is so over used and does not take into account the talent of the players who executed in the system. Not just anybody could have played that style and played it well and I think the past two years have shown that.

I'll admit that I couldn't read every post in this thread, but I feel like I should put in my two cents.

We, as Devils fans, are not used to our team losing. The start to this season has made everyone on this board a little (sarcasm) cranky. We all need to take a deep breath and think about whats happened so far.

Starting the season on the road is not easy, not to mention playing the first NINE games of the season on the road. For starting off with that schedule, 3-5-1 is not all that bad considering what happened to the team this offseason.

After starting the first nine on the road the team had to come home and play in a brand new arena with many more fans than they are used to playing in front of. Granted, they should get used to it because that was one of the ideas behind the whole new arena. There is some serious pressure there especially for the kids on the team IE: Clarkson, Greene, Oduya, Pelly, Brookbank. The pressure is most likely also greater on the newer team members IE: Zubrus, Asham, and Vish. I know that they are profesionals, but there is still some added pressure with this scenario. Also missing Langs and White has put a lot of pressure on some of the kids and newbies as well.

So now we're 3-6-1. There are teams that are a lot worse this year. We all just need to be thankful that we're not 1-9-1.

Lou and Jeff V. will do whats right for this team, HAVE FAITH!

Sorry for the long winded sermon.

LET'S GO DEVILS!

Nicely done. If you watch closely, the devils look much better than they did two weeks ago. Aside from some dumb mistakes like dropping their stick (Oduya), they have played better defensively. They need to just figure out how to play a good forecheck while still playing good D and it seems like they are getting there.

Let's remember, they did play the Senators (9-1) and it was close for a good amount of time. The Senators already started the season with an identity and a system that works. The Devils are still trying to find theres' and I'm sure when Langs and White get back we will be able to take them.

If the parts are so interchangeable why weren't we able to replace a Stevns or Niedermayer with just another part.

We have and we did........And the record from the last year was just as good as any year during the Stevens and Niedermayer era.

As a matter of fact last year we had a BETTER Regular season winning percentage than 2 of the years we won the cup....And basically the same percentage as the 3rd

1992-93 Patrick 84 40 37 7 0 0 87 0.518 308 299 1815 Herb Brooks Lost in round 1
1993-94 Atlantic 84 47 25 12 0 0 106 0.631 306 220 1734 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 3
1994-95 Atlantic 48 22 18 8 0 0 52 0.542 136 121 787 Jacques Lemaire Won Championship
1995-96 Atlantic 82 37 33 12 0 0 86 0.524 215 202 1486 Jacques Lemaire Out of Playoffs
1996-97 Atlantic 82 45 23 14 0 0 104 0.634 231 182 1135 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 2
1997-98 Atlantic 82 48 23 11 0 0 107 0.652 225 166 1488 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 1
1998-99 Atlantic 82 47 24 11 0 0 105 0.640 248 196 1355 Robbie Ftorek Lost in round 1
1999-00 Atlantic 82 45 24 8 5 0 103 0.628 251 203 1313 Multiple coaches Won Championship
2000-01 Atlantic 82 48 19 12 3 0 111 0.677 295 195 1235 Larry Robinson Lost in Finals
2001-02 Atlantic 82 41 28 9 4 0 95 0.579 205 187 1010 Multiple coaches Lost in round 1
2002-03 Atlantic 82 46 20 10 6 0 108 0.659 216 166 938 Pat Burns Won Championship
2003-04 Atlantic 82 43 25 12 2 0 100 0.610 213 164 894 Pat Burns Lost in round 1
2005-06 Atlantic 82 46 27 0 5 4 101 0.616 242 229 948 Multiple coaches Lost in round 2
2006-07 Atlantic 82 49 24 0 1 8 107 0.652 216 201 0 Claude Julien Lost in round 2

PLEASE BRING MY DEFENSE FIRST TEAM BACK!!!!!!!

We have and we did........And the record from the last years was as good as just any year Stevens and Niedermayer era.

As a matter of fact last year we had a BETTER Regular season winning percentage than 2 of the years we won the cup....

1992-93 Patrick 84 40 37 7 0 0 87 0.518 308 299 1815 Herb Brooks Lost in round 1
1993-94 Atlantic 84 47 25 12 0 0 106 0.631 306 220 1734 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 3
1994-95 Atlantic 48 22 18 8 0 0 52 0.542 136 121 787 Jacques Lemaire Won Championship
1995-96 Atlantic 82 37 33 12 0 0 86 0.524 215 202 1486 Jacques Lemaire Out of Playoffs
1996-97 Atlantic 82 45 23 14 0 0 104 0.634 231 182 1135 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 2
1997-98 Atlantic 82 48 23 11 0 0 107 0.652 225 166 1488 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 1
1998-99 Atlantic 82 47 24 11 0 0 105 0.640 248 196 1355 Robbie Ftorek Lost in round 1
1999-00 Atlantic 82 45 24 8 5 0 103 0.628 251 203 1313 Multiple coaches Won Championship
2000-01 Atlantic 82 48 19 12 3 0 111 0.677 295 195 1235 Larry Robinson Lost in Finals
2001-02 Atlantic 82 41 28 9 4 0 95 0.579 205 187 1010 Multiple coaches Lost in round 1
2002-03 Atlantic 82 46 20 10 6 0 108 0.659 216 166 938 Pat Burns Won Championship
2003-04 Atlantic 82 43 25 12 2 0 100 0.610 213 164 894 Pat Burns Lost in round 1
2005-06 Atlantic 82 46 27 0 5 4 101 0.616 242 229 948 Multiple coaches Lost in round 2
2006-07 Atlantic 82 49 24 0 1 8 107 0.652 216 201 0 Claude Julien Lost in round 2

So basically you prefer regular season success to post season success? Wow.

So basically you prefer regular season success to post season success? Wow.
That's just what I was thinking.

So basically you rather No regular season success AND No post season success? Wow.

So you you rather No regular season success AND No post season success? Wow.

I'd rather see them rebuilding toward a goal rather than aimlessly clinging to a style of play that no longer works for them because they are missing key "interchangeable" parts and whitewashing it with - hey we're still competitive even if we know we can't win. F that - that line of BS is what the Bruins feed their fans, I don't want that ***** to ever fly in New Jersey, sorry.

I'd rather see them rebuilding toward a goal rather than aimlessly clinging to a style of play that no longer works for them because they are missing key "interchangeable" parts and whitewashing it with - hey we're still competitive even if we know we can't win. F that - that line of BS is what the Bruins feed their fans, I don't want that ***** to ever fly in New Jersey, sorry.

No longer works?????? We won 49 games last season!!! MOST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY.


This team is not a contender not because of the Defensive System....But Because we don't have the players.

The Defense First System can at least keep us competitive while we rebuild. This is ESPECIALLY important with a brand new building.

Okay, JimEIV apologist here...

"New" NHL, "Old" NHL, whatever, fire wagon hockey DOES NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

I do not want this proud franchise to morph into a poor man's Buffalo Sabres, leaving our greatest ever player, Martin Brodeur, hanging out to dry.

It is retarded.

This "new system" sucks.

Take a long look at how every Devils game has played out this season. We come out guns ablazing in the first period, "shock and awe" style, and if that first assault does not lead to goals, we ultimately lose the game.

Why? Because we are the single WORST second period team in all of hockey, all of our energy and focus spent in the first period. The other team left patting themselves on the back during the first intermission, having weathered our assualt and adjusted to our fast pace.

It is a dumb way to play NHL hockey, if one wants to win, and it is all Brent Sutter.

I am aghast no one besides Jim can see this.

No longer works?????? We won 49 games last season!!! MOST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY.


This team is not a contender not because of the Defensive System....But Because we don't have the players.

The Defense First System can at least keep us competitive while we rebuild. This is ESPECIALLY important with a brand new building.

Wait a minute wait a minute - first they are interchangeable parts and now its because we don't have the players. Which is it?

Okay, JimEIV apologist here...

"New" NHL, "Old" NHL, whatever, fire wagon hockey DOES NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.




Its won the last two. Not total firewagon but a forecheck first style that puts pressure on the other team. That is sure what the Canes, Ducks and last year's Sens played.

Sutter has been ON Cup teams, he knows what it takes.

And the Sabres made it farther than us last year!

No time. I just left your sister's & I'm heading over to your mom's! :naughty: ;)

Tsk. The sad refuge of a fool without an argument.

Mods?

I came to these boards to get away from posts like this.

Sutter has been ON Cup teams, he knows what it takes.

And the Sabres made it farther than us last year!

Gretzky was the greatest hockey player ever and still sucks as a coach.

Gretzky was the greatest hockey player ever and still sucks as a coach.

And that is a fair point, I don't think Sutter is some genius or something, he still has to prove himself as a coach. I just feel the past two seasons showed that the Devils need to adapt to what is going on in the league around them. And I think Lou, sitting on the bench these two seasons, saw it too and that's why he is letting Sutter change things.

I always thought the "interchangeable parts" referred to the forwards, not the D, and certainly not Marty.

Tsk. The sad refuge of a fool without an argument.

Mods?

I came to these boards to get away from posts like this.

Well, I mean, you did read this topic.

And who wrote it. How much could you reasonably expect?

No longer works?????? We won 49 games last season!!! MOST IN FRANCHISE HISTORY.


This team is not a contender not because of the Defensive System....But Because we don't have the players.

The Defense First System can at least keep us competitive while we rebuild. This is ESPECIALLY important with a brand new building.

Who cares how many games we won in the regular season. We fell flat in the playoffs two years in a row. And we didn't just lose in the second round, we got destroyed both times. You guys need to stop living in the past. We don't have Stevens and Niedermayer anymore. All of our talent, our best players are up front. And we need to start utilizing them. And as much as I ripped on him, losing Rafalski was HUGE for this team. I don't know why you guys keep comparing last years team to this years when we lost 2 key players, have 2 more on IR, and 7 new faces. Give them some time. Also, Sutter is here to stay. Deal with it. Lou's been pursuing him since LR stepped down 2 seasons ago, he's not going to let him go after 10 freaking games.

First of all, I think everyone is getting a little to crazy of here. We are 10 games into the season and people are expecting way too much from this team at this point. There are 6 new guys on the roster this season who have never played for the Devils before. Then we have guys like Clarkson and Pelley who had limited time up with the big club. Don't you think we are setting the bar a little too high for a team that is made up of half a roster of new players? I don't know how many of you have played hockey and or other team sports but chemstry is extremely important in being a successful TEAM. I think Sutter has been put in a tough place, he came in here this season and put in a new system which most of not all the players have never played in. It will take time to find the right combinations and players to make this thing work. Did anyone actually watch that 1st Period on Sat? If they are able to play like that for 60 minutes a night, this team will be a top tier hockey club. Gomez would've been so bad under Sutter. You are held accountable for playing all three aspects of the game. I've watched Gomer since day one and he only played one aspect throughout his career. Look how well he's playing in NY. The guy never hustled to play D or to get a loose puck. I dont want to read and BS about him. What the Devils are missing is a Captain. I read this morning on a post on this site that the players were looking at eachother about who was going to take the first faceoff at the rock. That to me shows you whats wrong here. They need a guy who will step up and be that player. Stevens always stepped up in the big moments. We are missing that player. Ive read a lot of stuff saying Madden should be that guy, if we should be that guy, then why didn't he get a C. A captain is a player who not only leads with his voice and his play, but steps up above everyone else and gets the job done. We were spoiled all those years with Scotty Stevens. Now its time for someone new to emerge. I think once #15 gets healthy he will take over that role. He's played so big for us in every playoff series and always seems to score the right goals and the right time. 2 goals in game 7 vs. Ottawa 2003, OT goal last season against Ottawa. I really think we all need to chill out and wait till #15 makes his return before we start jumping ship. He will thrive under Sutters system, he scores, he passes, he skates hard and most impotantly, takes the body. Lets all take a deep breath and give Sutter and this team some time to gel and find their identity.

Who cares how many games we won in the regular season. We fell flat in the playoffs two years in a row. And we didn't just lose in the second round, we got destroyed both times. You guys need to stop living in the past. We don't have Stevens and Niedermayer anymore. All of our talent, our best players are up front. And we need to start utilizing them. And as much as I ripped on him, losing Rafalski was HUGE for this team. I don't know why you guys keep comparing last years team to this years when we lost 2 key players, have 2 more on IR, and 7 new faces. Give them some time. Also, Sutter is here to stay. Deal with it. Lou's been pursuing him since LR stepped down 2 seasons ago, he's not going to let him go after 10 freaking games.


Do you realize how many first and second round exits we had with Stevens-Niedermayer-Daneyko???




1992-93 Patrick 84 40 37 7 0 0 87 0.518 308 299 1815 Herb Brooks Lost in round 1
1993-94 Atlantic 84 47 25 12 0 0 106 0.631 306 220 1734 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 3
1994-95 Atlantic 48 22 18 8 0 0 52 0.542 136 121 787 Jacques Lemaire Won Championship
1995-96 Atlantic 82 37 33 12 0 0 86 0.524 215 202 1486 Jacques Lemaire Out of Playoffs
1996-97 Atlantic 82 45 23 14 0 0 104 0.634 231 182 1135 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 2
1997-98 Atlantic 82 48 23 11 0 0 107 0.652 225 166 1488 Jacques Lemaire Lost in round 1
1998-99 Atlantic 82 47 24 11 0 0 105 0.640 248 196 1355 Robbie Ftorek Lost in round 1
1999-00 Atlantic 82 45 24 8 5 0 103 0.628 251 203 1313 Multiple coaches Won Championship
2000-01 Atlantic 82 48 19 12 3 0 111 0.677 295 195 1235 Larry Robinson Lost in Finals
2001-02 Atlantic 82 41 28 9 4 0 95 0.579 205 187 1010 Multiple coaches Lost in round 1
2002-03 Atlantic 82 46 20 10 6 0 108 0.659 216 166 938 Pat Burns Won Championship
2003-04 Atlantic 82 43 25 12 2 0 100 0.610 213 164 894 Pat Burns Lost in round 1
2005-06 Atlantic 82 46 27 0 5 4 101 0.616 242 229 948 Multiple coaches Lost in round 2
2006-07 Atlantic 82 49 24 0 1 8 107 0.652 216 201 0 Claude Julien Lost in round 2

Gretzky was the greatest hockey player ever and still sucks as a coach.

And your salary is likely higher then his teams payroll.

The Defense First System can at least keep us competitive while we rebuild. This is ESPECIALLY important with a brand new building.

Why is that such a plus?
In a new building you want to see alot of action to draw more fans. You don't want to bore them and STILL lose. They won't come back.
Plus if we stay competitive with a crappy team. We'll never get the high prospects we need to rebuild this team properly.

The best thing to do is to take a nose dive for 2 seasons. Get a few #1 picks and rebuild this team properly.

People will support the Devils because they will become the underdogs. They will stay watching the devils because they are exciting to watch now. They will fill the arenas anticipating a turnaround for the team. The suspense will build as more people support the underdogs until we finally win another cup.

By then we'll win another generation of fans.

Why is that such a plus?
In a new building you want to see alot of action to draw more fans. You don't want to bore them and STILL lose. They won't come back.
Plus if we stay competitive with a crappy team. We'll never get the high prospects we need to rebuild this team properly.

The best thing to do is to take a nose dive for 2 seasons. Get a few #1 picks and rebuild this team properly.

People will support the Devils because they will become the underdogs. They will stay watching the devils because they are exciting to watch now. They will fill the arenas anticipating a turnaround for the team. The suspense will build as more people support the underdogs until we finally win another cup.

By then we'll win another generation of fans.

I have to agree. We have two key problems, Lou gave out to many long-term contracts and we don't have anything close to a number one defensemen. The Devils aren't going to go out and sign a Redden next season at 7.5 million or anyone else. So, they need to rebuild through the draft. And since they have been drafting low for more then a dozen years, they may need a couple years of some high picks and pray that Conte and his staff still have what it takes. I know it sucks, but the well went dry. I still find us lucky to have drafted players such as Parise and Zajac. We have some building blocks with these two and if guys like Bergfors, Greene, Current and Fraser turn out to be good NHL players. I don't think we will be down for long, but we may have to be down. We are so used to being on top, it is hard to swallow, but we may have no choice, unless you want to start rooting for the Rangers? :sarcasm:

Why is that such a plus?
In a new building you want to see alot of action to draw more fans. You don't want to bore them and STILL lose. They won't come back.
Plus if we stay competitive with a crappy team. We'll never get the high prospects we need to rebuild this team properly.

The best thing to do is to take a nose dive for 2 seasons. Get a few #1 picks and rebuild this team properly.

People will support the Devils because they will become the underdogs. They will stay watching the devils because they are exciting to watch now. They will fill the arenas anticipating a turnaround for the team. The suspense will build as more people support the underdogs until we finally win another cup.

By then we'll win another generation of fans.


You don't need high picks to build a successful team

Overall POS Player

18 D Ken Daneyko
43 R Pat Verbeek
85 G Chris Terreri
145 D Viacheslav Fetisov
225 D Alexei Kasatonov
23 G Craig Billington
24 G Sean Burke
32 D Eric Weinrich
54 L Zdeno Ciger
207 C Alexander Semak
20 G Martin Brodeur
56 D Brad Bombardir
179 D Jaroslav Modry
200 G Corey Schwab
221 L Valeri Zelepukin
242 D Todd Reirden
11 L Brian Rolston
18 D Jason Smith
42 C Sergei Brylin
66 D Cale Hulse
186 C Stephane Yelle
32 L Jay Pandolfo
39 C Brendan Morrison
51 L Patrik Elias
71 D Sheldon Souray
233 C Steve Sullivan
18 C Petr Sykora
49 D Colin White
199 D Willie Mitchell
26 D Mike Van Ryn
27 C Scott Gomez
82 R Brian Gionta
42 D Mike Commodore
62 D Paul Martin
17 C Zach Parise
20 C Travis Zajac


People will support the Devils because they will become the underdogs. They will stay watching the devils because they are exciting to watch now.

You're kidding yourself......You must not remember the 1980's teams with 4,000 fans in the building.

Why is that such a plus?
In a new building you want to see alot of action to draw more fans. You don't want to bore them and STILL lose. They won't come back.
Plus if we stay competitive with a crappy team. We'll never get the high prospects we need to rebuild this team properly.

The best thing to do is to take a nose dive for 2 seasons. Get a few #1 picks and rebuild this team properly.

People will support the Devils because they will become the underdogs. They will stay watching the devils because they are exciting to watch now. They will fill the arenas anticipating a turnaround for the team. The suspense will build as more people support the underdogs until we finally win another cup.

By then we'll win another generation of fans.

No one is going to come to games where the team sucks, period. Especially when ticket prices already aren't so cheap at The Rock. As a sports fan, your idea makes sense kinda, but in an economic view, not so much.

The best thing to do is not nose dive because we lose a sizable amount of income when all the fans stop coming to games because they're sick of us losing constantly. If we start winning, period, people will be attracted to us. NJ residents will be like, with assuredly (accurately) little hockey knowledge, "Wow our hockey team is doing well! Maybe I'll go see them!" NO ONE is going to be like, "Hey, the Devils suck. Let's go root for them." Remember, you don't aim to impress the diehard fans (unfortunately), you aim to attract more people period. Those people are fickle, and they want to see their home team win.

Nose dive for two seasons? Goodbye sizable fanbase. Then with the rebuilding, it'll take another year or two on top of those two to re-attract fans, and this new arena has to wait 4 years to hold a bunch of people. Right now is the time we should be winning, period. Winning team+AMAZING arena=happy fanbase.

Plus, winning is better than losing.
If it takes returning to the system that has benefited the Devils (especially Marty, NJ's biggest hockey star and arguably the most popular Devil in NJ, our Crosby, our legend/NHL superstar, get where I'm going?) to even improve this team, it can only mean good things, even if we sacrifice some offense (what offense, anyway), we assume that our defensive strategy would benefit us more. What does it say about Brodeur when we lose 6-5 as opposed to 2-1? WE know it says nothing, but non-hockey fans see that and would say something like, "Isn't he supposed to be amazing? 6 goals is a lot more than 2". Closer games=better chance of winning, and as I've proved, winning is what we need to do. **** draft picks. Let's go for a Cup. Go Devils.

So nobody went to see the Chicago Cubs cause they sucked?

There seems to be more Cubs fans than cockroaches everywhere. Seems like everybody roots for the Cubs.


and as I've proved, winning is what we need to do. **** draft picks. Let's go for a Cup. Go Devils.

That attitutude is why some teams are still without a cup. They sacrifice their draft picks for players who they think will get them to a cup. Instead, they mess up their whole future as a club and still miss the cup.

To have a good chance for winning a cup, you need a core of good prospects plus veteran players.

So nobody went to see the Chicago Cubs cause they sucked?

There seems to be more Cubs fans than cockroaches everywhere. Seems like everybody roots for the Cubs.





Don't kid yourself. The Devils aren't a historic and storied franchise that has been around for about a century like the Cubs.

I dunno about that. We have 3 cups. Every hockey fan in our generation knows about the devils. Maybe half of those fans we got during those 3 cups are fair weather fans. But there are still a good chunk of those people that are die hard fans. These won go away even if we are losing.

Look at the Rangers, how long have they sucked? Ok, so that maybe not a good example cause they are one of the original 6. But what about the Phoenix Coyotes? Don't tell me they have no fans. They play in the middle of a desert!

Can't compare the popularity of a hockey team to one of the most famous baseball teams ever... Cubs have a very die hard fan base

Can't compare the popularity of a hockey team to one of the most famous baseball teams ever... Cubs have a very die hard fan base

I would like to think we have some really die hard Devils fans too. I know I for one am not going to start rooting for another team even if the Devils tank.

Look at the stats of Elias/Gionta/Zubrus. Bingo.

Look at the stats of Elias/Gionta/Zubrus. Bingo.

Zubrus just seem to have timing problems on the ice. I wonder if being on the line with Elias and Gionta really messed him up. Its a shame cause he tries really hard out there. Maybe too hard.

Sometimes you need to sit back and enjoy the game. Maybe some of our guys are feeling the pressure too much instead of just the sheer enjoyment of playing. If they just relax and enjoy playing maybe they will do better.

Zubrus just seem to have timing problems on the ice. I wonder if being on the line with Elias and Gionta really messed him up. Its a shame cause he tries really hard out there. Maybe too hard.

Sometimes you need to sit back and enjoy the game. Maybe some of our guys are feeling the pressure too much instead of just the sheer enjoyment of playing. If they just relax and enjoy playing maybe they will do better.
Zubrus is snakebitten it seems. We are spoiled, I am so used to Gionta making a difference every game. How many 3rd period game tying goals did he score last season?

In addition, you have in the prospect pool: Nicklas Bergfors was on the opening night roster and will likely get more NHL action later this season. Matthew Corrente had a second extended look in training camp. Guys like Tony Romano Jeff Frazee, and Kirill Tulupov are improving among many other players. Yes, none of these guys can step in and make the team that much better. That's why they are prospects - they may help out the team in the future, but they may not for whatever reason.

While I agree on others for the most part (especially Tulupov), Romano really looks bad in the OHL so far. I've seen him play 3 times now and he just looks completely lost most of the time on the ice.

And he only has 5 points in 13 games on an offensive happy team in an offensive happy league.

Ouch!

While I agree on others for the most part (especially Tulupov), Romano really looks bad in the OHL so far. I've seen him play 3 times now and he just looks completely lost most of the time on the ice.

And he only has 5 points in 13 games on an offensive happy team in an offensive happy league.

Ouch!

Jon how do you get the junior league games here in the US? Is through a satellite or online somehow/ I would love to be able to watch these games. I can disagree or agree with your opinion at all because I've only gotten to see the kid play once in college.

Don't kid yourself. The Devils aren't a historic and storied franchise that has been around for about a century like the Cubs.

The Cubs are the exception to the rule. Ask the fans of the two Florida baseball teams if sucking is helping their fan base. Oh, nevermind, they don't have any fans.

As of today we have the fewest points in the entire NHL....Go Sutter!

As of today we have the fewest points in the entire NHL....Go Sutter!

So? All the better for a good 1st round pick. :teach:

Seriously though... I wouldn't be too put off on tanking, especially if we can stockpile draft picks for the next 2 drafts...

This team (doesn't matter who is coaching), just isn't built to be a winner. We can't play any system and do well for too long.

So? All the better for a good 1st round pick. :teach:

Seriously though... I wouldn't be too put off on tanking, especially if we can stockpile draft picks for the next 2 drafts...

This team (doesn't matter who is coaching), just isn't built to be a winner. We can't play any system and do well for too long.

It's still too early to reasonably be talking about tanking.

But, if they did, I agree to a point. This is something you could see coming last
year. Last year at CAA in front of 12 people a night... it really should have been blown up then. To open a new building and then be put in a position to have to blow it up and totally suck, is a horrible thing and a bad management decision.

Even if they were to do what the Flyers did and just totally blow before becoming more competitive down the stretch, the fans are not going to show up. The only
reason they did in Philly is because they probably bought their tickets before the season started.