Bert news

Darren Dreger

8/24/2007 10:28:03 AM

In preparation for a civil jury trial launched against NHL star Todd Bertuzzi, former Colorado Avalanche Steve Moore's legal team has been conducting examinations for discovery over the past several weeks.

Vancouver Canucks' general manager Dave Nonis was questioned on Thursday by Moore's lawyer, Tim Danson, and will face further questioning on Friday.

Sources tell TSN the process was delayed earlier this month because the Canucks wanted to postpone the examination to a later date in Vancouver. A judge ordered the original schedule be maintained, forcing Nonis to appear this week in Toronto.

Nonis was the Canucks' Sr. Vice-President and Director of Hockey Operations March 8, 2004 when Bertuzzi hit Moore with a punch from behind. Moore suffered three broken vertebrae and a concussion.

The first round of examination hit full stride last week with Danson's questioning of Bertuzzi in Kitchener, Ont.





A second round of examination will take place before a trial date is set, with a strong possibility that any refusals - information believed to be important to the case that isn't voluntarily supplied by those - will be argued in a public hearing.

It's believed Bertuzzi's lawyer, Geoff Adair has also conducted pre-trial examinations which includes the questioning of Steve Moore last month.

Moore is seeking a minimum of $20 million in damages.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=216778&hubname=nhl

for whatever it's worth, it's a civil suit, if Moore wins, all Bertuzzi will have to do is pay money, so it shouldn't take him away from the team. That said, a drawn out civil trial could prove to be a distraction.

I don't see how this could not be a huge distraction on the guy. Does he even have 20 million dollars? Moore is trying to take him for every penny he has. Especially with the rough and tough style everyone wants him to play, will he be able to play that way even though he feels he is under a microscope not to make any mistakes during the trial?

It just makes me wonder why Burke took such a huge ****ing risk in signing this guy. 4 million a season that could have gone to much better use.

It just makes me wonder why Burke took such a huge ****ing risk in signing this guy. 4 million a season that could have gone to much better use.

Find another first-line free agent winger who was signed for $4 million or less. Blake or Kozlov seem to be the only other guys in that market.

This is a stupid distraction for a Stanley Cup Champion Team.
I recall that Burke, Brad May were also named in early lawsuits filed by Moore.
I am not sure if this particular case involves them - but this isn't good for the Ducks. :shakehead

Link to earlier article about Moore's lawsuits. (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/02/17/moore_civilsuit050217.html)

Find another first-line free agent winger who was signed for $4 million or less. Blake or Kozlov seem to be the only other guys in that market.

To pay that kind of money for a potential distraction is definately a bad move in my opionin.

Why would we stick with 4 million or less? Why not spend the extra and get someone without the tremendous baggage? We shouldn't have over spent for Schnieder and could've brought in ?????Drury, Nylander, Hell Owen Nolan for that matter, I'm sure he'll put up the same kind of numbers as Bert without th cost and distraction.

To pay that kind of money for a potential distraction is definately a bad move in my opionin.

Why would we stick with 4 million or less? Why not spend the extra and get someone without the tremendous baggage? We shouldn't have over spent for Schnieder and could've brought in ?????Drury, Nylander, Hell Owen Nolan for that matter, I'm sure he'll put up the same kind of numbers as Bert without th cost and distraction.

I am one of the few that thinks this is a risk worth taking. IF he can stay healthy (big if), I think Anaheim will be a good place to make a come back. I am hoping Randy and Burke can bring out the best out of Bertuzzi. This is a risk worth taking imo, Bertuzzi's play fits this team well and can be a force on this team.

To pay that kind of money for a potential distraction is definately a bad move in my opionin.

Why would we stick with 4 million or less? Why not spend the extra and get someone without the tremendous baggage? We shouldn't have over spent for Schnieder and could've brought in ?????Drury, Nylander, Hell Owen Nolan for that matter, I'm sure he'll put up the same kind of numbers as Bert without th cost and distraction.

Nolan was the 3rd forward in average ice-time on the Coyotes and got 40 points, playing almost the entire season (76 games). Meanwhile, with similar icetime, Bertuzzi averaged almost a point per game. I will be highly surprised that Nolan outscores Bertuzzi this season, barring another 15 game injury-plagued season from Bertuzzi.

Bringing in a top forward like Drury or Nylander wouldn't have helped deepen the Ducks blue line (which either way is weakened by the expected Niedermayer retirement). No Schneider and a retired Niedermayer makes the Ducks preciously thin on the back end after Beauchemin and Pronger.

The name of the game is addressing all the needs of the team. Anaheim, with the unknown status of Selanne and Niedermayer, needed a top line forward and top three defenseman. They needed to act quickly in order to capitalize on the best free agents around and as such they could not wait for a final decision from either of their players in question. Therefore, they also needed to keep room available in case Selanne did decide to return as well as operate under the pretense that Niedermayer's cap space was used up and inaccessible. Not to mention addressing other free agents and RFAs such as Brad May and (at the time) Dustin Penner.

Balancing all these factors together, a very particular set of criteria begins to emerge. Given the needs of the team, the available players and the prices that those players eventually went for, Anaheim pretty much did the best they could.

Blake was looking for a long-term deal, which Burke (based on the other contract negotiations and signings) seems unwilling to offer. Kozlov is thought to have given a bit of a discount to return to the Thrashers. So Bertuzzi remains as a viable top line option, probably giving a bit of a lower rate considering his history with Burke, etc. Is there risk? Sure, but one needs to accept that risk to fill the rule under the limitations of the budget.

On defense, Schneider is easily the second best defenseman available after Rafalski. Rafalski was too expensive of an option (and again, in search of the long term deal), so the Ducks went for Schneider, the best available option to fill Niedermayer's shoes under the limitations of the budget.

You talk about spending the extra and I must wonder where this extra cash is coming from. Currently, Niedermayer's contract counts against the Duck's salary cap and will so until his retirement becomes official. Anaheim has their hands tied in that situation and considering that $6.25 million anchor, they currently stand rather close to the cap ceiling, although that situation was alleviated somewhat when Penner went to Edmonton, as that was an extra $2 million or so that Anaheim did not need to factor in. But at the end of the day, when the decisions on Bertuzzi and Schneider were made, Anaheim simply did not have the $2 million dollars room that they have now. They needed to keep that space open for Penner and anyone else.

Anaheim going all out and picking up Drury (for example) would have left the Ducks unable to address holes elsewhere in the organization. There were two major holes to be filled and a limited supply of cash to do it. I think it would be very hard to say that the team could have done a better job, considering all of the circumstances.

Does Moore honestly think he would have made 20 million in his career? I'd say that would be highly doubtful.

Does Moore honestly think he would have made 20 million in his career? I'd say that would be highly doubtful.

A fringe NHLer, there was zero chance he'd earn anywhere close to that.....

Nolan was the 3rd forward in average ice-time on the Coyotes and got 40 points, playing almost the entire season (76 games). Meanwhile, with similar icetime, Bertuzzi averaged almost a point per game. I will be highly surprised that Nolan outscores Bertuzzi this season, barring another 15 game injury-plagued season from Bertuzzi.

Bringing in a top forward like Drury or Nylander wouldn't have helped deepen the Ducks blue line (which either way is weakened by the expected Niedermayer retirement). No Schneider and a retired Niedermayer makes the Ducks preciously thin on the back end after Beauchemin and Pronger.

The name of the game is addressing all the needs of the team. Anaheim, with the unknown status of Selanne and Niedermayer, needed a top line forward and top three defenseman. They needed to act quickly in order to capitalize on the best free agents around and as such they could not wait for a final decision from either of their players in question. Therefore, they also needed to keep room available in case Selanne did decide to return as well as operate under the pretense that Niedermayer's cap space was used up and inaccessible. Not to mention addressing other free agents and RFAs such as Brad May and (at the time) Dustin Penner.

Balancing all these factors together, a very particular set of criteria begins to emerge. Given the needs of the team, the available players and the prices that those players eventually went for, Anaheim pretty much did the best they could.

Blake was looking for a long-term deal, which Burke (based on the other contract negotiations and signings) seems unwilling to offer. Kozlov is thought to have given a bit of a discount to return to the Thrashers. So Bertuzzi remains as a viable top line option, probably giving a bit of a lower rate considering his history with Burke, etc. Is there risk? Sure, but one needs to accept that risk to fill the rule under the limitations of the budget.

On defense, Schneider is easily the second best defenseman available after Rafalski. Rafalski was too expensive of an option (and again, in search of the long term deal), so the Ducks went for Schneider, the best available option to fill Niedermayer's shoes under the limitations of the budget.

You talk about spending the extra and I must wonder where this extra cash is coming from. Currently, Niedermayer's contract counts against the Duck's salary cap and will so until his retirement becomes official. Anaheim has their hands tied in that situation and considering that $6.25 million anchor, they currently stand rather close to the cap ceiling, although that situation was alleviated somewhat when Penner went to Edmonton, as that was an extra $2 million or so that Anaheim did not need to factor in. But at the end of the day, when the decisions on Bertuzzi and Schneider were made, Anaheim simply did not have the $2 million dollars room that they have now. They needed to keep that space open for Penner and anyone else.

Anaheim going all out and picking up Drury (for example) would have left the Ducks unable to address holes elsewhere in the organization. There were two major holes to be filled and a limited supply of cash to do it. I think it would be very hard to say that the team could have done a better job, considering all of the circumstances.

best off-season post 2007 :handclap:

I have one problem with the what is going on and this could knee cap Moore and his position at the trial.

For those who remember the hit on Nasland, Nasland's head was down and he did not see the hit coming, someone yelled heads up just in time to allow Nasland to prevent serious injury to himself.

Moore's team better stay away from trying to make him look like a clean player. Moore was committed to hitting Nasland when Nasland's head was down. If someone on the ice does not yell heads up-Nasland gets seriously injured.

Also, Steve Moore was never going to be anything more then a 3rd.4th liner in the NHL and from what I saw Moore's lawyer say to ESPN when I still lived in North America, he tried to come across like Moore was going to get 40g 100pts a year.

BUt does not really matter, still ugliness for the game in the US and not the kind of attention that anyone near the game wants.

Does Moore honestly think he would have made 20 million in his career? I'd say that would be highly doubtful.
Numbers in suits are always inflated though. Lawyers take who knows how much, taxes take who knows how much, and if they win the judge normally drops the number down some too. It's like negotiating, you always start high (or low depending on if you're the buyer or seller).

I have one problem with the what is going on and this could knee cap Moore and his position at the trial.

For those who remember the hit on Nasland, Nasland's head was down and he did not see the hit coming, someone yelled heads up just in time to allow Nasland to prevent serious injury to himself.

Moore's team better stay away from trying to make him look like a clean player. Moore was committed to hitting Nasland when Nasland's head was down. If someone on the ice does not yell heads up-Nasland gets seriously injured.


I would be very surprised if much talk about the Naslund hit and Moore's intentions during it comes up during any legal proceeding, civil or otherwise. Bertuzzi is the one on trial here, not Moore and while Bertuzzi's defense lawyers might consider the possibility of painting Moore as having dirty hands as one route to take, I can't see it going far. Quite frankly, I don't see it as a smart defense (or offense as it were) and here's why:
At the end of the day, Moore's hit on Naslund did not result in legal action against Moore, nor did it even merit a penalty on the play or further action from the league. It's unfortunate that Naslund was injured but based on the actions of the referees that night and the league in the ensuing days, the hit delivered by Moore was a legal hit and part of the game of hockey. Therefore, except as being acknowledged as the starting point to the turn of events that ended Moore's career, the Naslund hit is a non-starter for the legal defense.

Numbers in suits are always inflated though. Lawyers take who knows how much, taxes take who knows how much, and if they win the judge normally drops the number down some too. It's like negotiating, you always start high (or low depending on if you're the buyer or seller).
Typically, lawyers will take 40%; taxes will be another 30 or 35%, so if he were awarded the full 20 million he'd be looking at 8 million or so (which, by the way, is the same amount as the lawyers would be getting :shakehead)

I have one problem with the what is going on and this could knee cap Moore and his position at the trial.

For those who remember the hit on Nasland, Nasland's head was down and he did not see the hit coming, someone yelled heads up just in time to allow Nasland to prevent serious injury to himself.

Moore's team better stay away from trying to make him look like a clean player. Moore was committed to hitting Nasland when Nasland's head was down. If someone on the ice does not yell heads up-Nasland gets seriously injured.

Also, Steve Moore was never going to be anything more then a 3rd.4th liner in the NHL and from what I saw Moore's lawyer say to ESPN when I still lived in North America, he tried to come across like Moore was going to get 40g 100pts a year.

BUt does not really matter, still ugliness for the game in the US and not the kind of attention that anyone near the game wants.


It's not illegal to hit a guy with his head down. Ask Lindros.

Bringing in a top forward like Drury or Nylander wouldn't have helped deepen the Ducks blue line (which either way is weakened by the expected Niedermayer retirement). No Schneider and a retired Niedermayer makes the Ducks preciously thin on the back end after Beauchemin and Pronger.

The name of the game is addressing all the needs of the team. Anaheim, with the unknown status of Selanne and Niedermayer, needed a top line forward and top three defenseman. They needed to act quickly in order to capitalize on the best free agents around and as such they could not wait for a final decision from either of their players in question. Therefore, they also needed to keep room available in case Selanne did decide to return as well as operate under the pretense that Niedermayer's cap space was used up and inaccessible. Not to mention addressing other free agents and RFAs such as Brad May and (at the time) Dustin Penner.

.

I got you on that, wasn't aguing why they picked them up just who. But my whole point was, guess I could have phrased it better---We have young kids in the line up and if they see a teammate get punished (possible civil penalty) then how do they react on the ice, granted it may transfer throughout the league, but when the player is on your team, it seems to hit harder due to it closeness to home.

If the distractions of the civil trial hit the locker room and afect the whole team, I still feel it wasn't the best move.

I hope Bert will perform and produce, I want nothing more, but I hope all the other stuff doesn't interfere with the cohesivness of the team.

Find another first-line free agent winger who was signed for $4 million or less. Blake or Kozlov seem to be the only other guys in that market.

Plus, if there's anywhere Bertuzzi was going to return to form, it's probably Anaheim. He has a very good relationship with Burke, and Brad May's probably his closest friend in the league after Naslund. It also doesn't hurt that Bertuzzi is well suited to the style of game Anaheim plays. If he stays healthy and the civil suit isn't too much of a distraction, I see no reason Bertuzzi can't return to being the player he was in Vancouver. Anaheim is a good environment for him.

Hopefully this thing will settle before going to trial.

We don't need the distraction.