Wow Parise!!!!!!

US Beats Russia 4-1 and Parise leads all scores in the tourney almost doubling the second place man!

11 Zach Parise USA F 4 6 5 11 4 1 1 - 2 -

12 Anthony Stewart CAN F 4 4 2 6 - - - - 2 -

29 Sergei Anshakov RUS F 4 4 1 5 1 - 1 - - -

3 Sami Lepisto FIN D 3 4 1 5 2 - - - 6 -

8 Alexander Ovechkin RUS F 4 3 2 5 2 - - - - -

12 Valtteri Filppula FIN F 3 3 2 5 1 1 1 - - -

27 Nigel Dawes CAN F 4 2 3 5 - - - - - -

9 Patrick Eaves USA F 4 1 4 5 - 1 - - 6 -

27 Stephen Werner USA F 4 4 - 4 2 1 1 - 2 -

25 Rostislav Olesz CZE F 4 3 1 4 - 1 - - 4

Very, very impressive. Nice to see Parise doing so well.

Whoooooooooo! Light them up!

:bow: Parise :bow:

Why the hell did so many teams pass up on Parise?! Does anyone have any ideas why?

Why the hell did so many teams pass up on Parise?! Does anyone have any ideas why?
Because of his size(5'11), that's the only thing I can think of or I've heard. But I tell you what if the entry draft was held today instead of last June I can't imagine how he would get past the 5th pick. Alot of teams have got to be kicking themselves right now.

O man I'm going to do backflips when this guy is signed :handclap:

O man I'm going to do backflips when this guy is signed :handclap:
Yep. It looks (right now) as if he's going to be great. :) :)

11 Zach Parise GP 13 G 6 A 10 P 16 SHOTS 55 Shooting % .109 +/- +16

those are his stats for the Fighting Sioux so far this year.

11 Zach Parise GP 13 G 6 A 10 P 16 SHOTS 55 Shooting % .109 +/- +16

those are his stats for the Fighting Sioux so far this year.

He has kinda been in a funk at UND. He is only averaging about 1.23 ppg, which is pretty low for him. The Sioux are such a deep team, with 5 complete lines, that the scoring gets spread out a lot. I think after the WJC, Zach will be able to get his scoring touch back. At UND he is on a line with Brandon Bochenski (Natural Goal Scorer) and Brady Murray (Goes into the corners/speedster). He is the natural play-maker, but not as huge of a scorer as many think (however, he can still light the lamp like crazy.)

If he's given the opportunity to pass it off to a teammate, he will, rather than shoot. He has a great ability to make his linemates 1000 times better. He also is an amazing two-way player. He back-checks non-stop, and doesn't take a shift off. He sprained his ACL early in the season and was playing later that game...he is a very tough kid and takes responsibility for any losses. He is always first one on, first one off the ice at practice and spends most of the day on the ice. If he has an hour between classes, he will go to the Ralph and skate around.

I'm glad New Jersey got him. With David Hale and James Massen both draftees (Hale playing with NJ)...it will be great to be able to watch all 3 of them play in the pros in a couple years. If UND wins the National Championship this year, which is a pretty good possibility, Zach will probably go pro. However, if they don't win, I would expect him to return for at least one more year in college. He is only a sophomore and has expressed the importance of getting a college education.

Just as long as he doesn't become another Gomez type player(meaning he only scores 12 goals a year)

[QUOTE=JimEIV]US Beats Russia 4-1 and Parise leads all scores in the tourney almost doubling the second place man!

11 Zach Parise USA F 4 6 5 11 4 1 1 - 2

Team USA advances to the semis


HAMEENLINNA, Finland -- The United States National Junior Team defeated Russia, 4-1, here this evening in its final game of the Preliminary Round at the 2004 International Ice Hockey Federation World Junior Championship. Team USA, which had not taken a game from Russia in this tournament since 1995, finished 4-0-0 in its four-team Group A and earned a bye to the Semifinal Round, playing on Saturday, Jan. 3 at 8 a.m. EST in Helsinki.

"It's always important to get off to a great start in the game," said U.S. head coach Mike Eaves (Madison, Wis.). "And we did that tonight. Our player of the game, Al Montoya (Glenview, Ill./Univ. of Michigan), deserved that honor. He was key on our penalty killing and made some very big saves to preserve that lead for us. Overall, we're very excited."

Russia carried much of the play in the early going, but for the fourth time in as many games Team USA opened the scoring in the first period. Less than 20 seconds after teammate Brady Murray (Faribault, Minn./Univ. of North Dakota) had drawn a slashing penalty, U.S. forward Ryan Kesler (Livonia, Mich./Manitoba Moose) found Patrick O'Sullivan (Sterling Heights, Mich./Mississauga Ice Dogs) sliding into the slot, where he dragged a quick wrister past Russian goaltender Konstantin Barulin.

Late in the first the U.S. scored two goals in less than a minute to take a 3-0 lead. A high stick by Alexander Semin resulted in a five-on-three advantage for Team USA, during which a broken play afforded Parise two chances to hammer a weak-side goal past Barulin at 18:45. The U.S. made it 3-0 on the ensuing five-on-four advantage when Patrick Eaves (Faribault, Minn./Boston College) moved the puck to a breaking Stephen Werner (Chevy Chase, Md./Univ. of Massachusetts) who, on a three-on-two rush, shot high and ended up knocking in his own rebound.

Barulin did not start the second, but the U.S. scored a shorthanded goal on Russian netminder Denis Khudyakov in the middle frame to cap its scoring. Playing with O'Sullivan in the penalty box for holding, Team USA scored shorthanded to extend its lead to 4-0, when Zach Parise (Faribault, Minn./Univ. of North Dakota) drove into the defensive zone, thwarted Russia's breakout setup behind the net, stole a Khudyakov clearing attempt and slid a wrap-around effort into an untended net at 15:57.

Russia eventually scored on Montoya, who was forced to make a number of difficult saves throughout the game, with a power-play goal at 10:45 of the third, after the U.S. took three penalties in fewer than two minutes. With six seconds remaining in a five-one-three, Russia set up its power play and worked the puck low to Sergei Anshakov, who scored from in close.

In Helsinki, Canada beat the Czech Republic, 5-1, to gain the top seed in Group B. The semifinal opponent for the United States will be determined by a Qualification Round game on Jan. 2. Team USA's game will be exclusively audiocast on USA Hockey's official website, usahockey.com.

GAME SUMMARY
United States 3 - 1 - 0 -- 4
Russia 0 - 0 - 1 -- 1

First Period: Scoring: 1, USA, Sullivan (Eaves, Suter), 9:45 (pp). 2, USA, Parise (Eaves), 18:48 (pp). 3, USA, Werner (Parise), 19:21 (pp). Penalties: O'Sullivan, USA (tripping), 1:02; Sporodpmpv, RUS (slashing), 9:33; Bench, USA (too many men), 10:49; Korneev, RUS (slashing), 11:34; Kesler, USA (roughing), 13:37; Grot, USA (roughing), 13:37; Carle, USA (slashing), 14:44; Tunik, RUS (hooking), 17:11; Semin, RUS (high sticking), 18:30.

Second Period: Scoring: 4, USA, Parise (unassisted), 5:57 (sh). Penalties: Eaves, USA (boarding), 1:36; Kosmachev, RUS (kneeing), 7:01; Gimaev, RUS (roughing), 10:18; Kesler, USA (hooking), 12:18; Korneev, RUS, (unsportsmanlike conduct), 12:18; Moore, USA (elbowing), 12:34; Pestunov, RUS (misconduct), 14:41; O'Sullivan, USA (holding), 15:04; Korneev, RUS (interference), 19:08.

Third Period: Scoring: 5, RUS, Anshakov (Gimaev, Spiridonov), 10:45. Penalties: Suter, USA (high sticking), 8:51; Fritsche, USA, (high sticking), 9:03; Wisniewski, USA (unsportsmanlike), 10:22; Likens, USA (roughing), 18:00; Semin, RUS (roughing), 18:00; Shkotov, RUS (charging), 18:00.

Shots: USA: 15 - 10 - 10 -- 35. RUS: 8 - 10 - 12 -- 30

Goaltenders: USA: Montoya (30 shots, 29 saves). RUS: Barulin (15 shots, 12 saves); Khudyakov (20 shots, 19 saves).

Referee: Vladimir Sindler. Linesmen: Stanislav Barvir, Derek Doucette.

2004 IIHF World Junior Championship
December 26, 2003 -- January 5, 2004; Helsinki & Hameenlinna, Finland
Team USA Schedule

Date Time (Local/EST) Matchup Location
Dec. 23 ----- 5:00 p.m./10 a.m. ----- USA 1, Finland 4 (exhib.) ----- Hameenlinna
Dec. 26 ----- 6:30 p.m./11:30 a.m. ----- Austria 0, USA 8 ----- Hameenlinna
Dec. 28 ----- 3:00 p.m./8:00 a.m. ----- Slovakia 0, USA 5 ----- Hameenlinna
Dec. 30 ----- 4:00 p.m./9:00 a.m. ----- USA 4, Sweden 3 ----- Hameenlinna
Dec. 31 ----- 4:00 p.m./9:00 a.m. ----- Russia 1, USA 4 ----- Hameenlinna
Jan. 3 ----- 3:00 p.m./8:00 a.m. ----- Semifinal Round ----- Helsinki
Jan. 5 ----- 3:00 p.m./8:00 a.m. ----- Bronze-Medal Game ----- Helsinki
Jan. 5 ----- 7:00 p.m./12:00 a.m. ----- Gold-Medal Game ----- Helsinki

A while back I posted in a thread that Lou and the Devils have never brought in a player from the college ranks to play at the end of the regular season or playoffs it wasn't their style, but after this unbelievable performance by Parise I wouldn't be surprised if they thought he'd be ready for next year that maybe they will sign him during the playoffs once the North Dakota season, just in case we need a spark. Wouldn't necessarly put him straight in the lineup but maybe just have him on the sidelines like I said just in case.

I'm really trying not to get ahead of myself but I can't help it!

A while back I posted in a thread that Lou and the Devils have never brought in a player from the college ranks to play at the end of the regular season or playoffs it wasn't their style, but after this unbelievable performance by Parise I wouldn't be surprised if they thought he'd be ready for next year that maybe they will sign him during the playoffs once the North Dakota season, just in case we need a spark. Wouldn't necessarly put him straight in the lineup but maybe just have him on the sidelines like I said just in case.

I'm really trying not to get ahead of myself but I can't help it!
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There is a cutoff date for that: and if UND goes deep into the playoffs I don't think he could sign and be elig. to play with the Devils this season.

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There is a cutoff date for that: and if UND goes deep into the playoffs I don't think he could sign and be elig. to play with the Devils this season.
Which they probably will considering they are one of the top teams. Oh well it was nice to dream for five minutes.

Does anybody think Parise might get a shot at playing for Team USA in the World Cup this summer?

If I am getting ahead of myself again feel free to say so!

Does anybody think Parise might get a shot at playing for Team USA in the World Cup this summer?

If I am getting ahead of myself again feel free to say so!

Hope not. Don't want him to make Brodeur look bad. :p

Hope not. Don't want him to make Brodeur look bad. :p
I hear that!

Does anybody think Parise might get a shot at playing for Team USA in the World Cup this summer?

If I am getting ahead of myself again feel free to say so!


No offense, but yeah, you are getting ahead of yourself. Thankfully, U.S. hockey has progressed to the point where we don't need to rely on players in college or the minors to suit up for us in international tournaments. Parise is a great player, but he won't be needed this summer.

No offense, but yeah, you are getting ahead of yourself. Thankfully, U.S. hockey has progressed to the point where we don't need to rely on players in college or the minors to suit up for us in international tournaments. Parise is a great player, but he won't be needed this summer.
None taken. Just throwing it out there. 20+ years ago that wasn't the case though.

No offense, but yeah, you are getting ahead of yourself. Thankfully, U.S. hockey has progressed to the point where we don't need to rely on players in college or the minors to suit up for us in international tournaments. Parise is a great player, but he won't be needed this summer.

Note the new World Cup rule that all teams must include 3 players that are under the age of 22 on their 26-man roster. For Canada, there's no shortage of under-22 talent in the NHL to draw upon (Nash, Bouwmeester, Spezza, Fleury, Staal, Weiss, Hamhuis, Blackburn...). Russia will probably put up Kovalchuk, Chistov, and Svitov or Zherdev. But for the US ... if not Parise, then who? Name 3 more suitable US-born players under age 22. I can't even think of one. Mike Komisarek? Dustin Brown? I believe those are the only two eligible US players who have even played as many as a dozen NHL games.

Note the new World Cup rule that all teams must include 3 players that are under the age of 22 on their 26-man roster. For Canada, there's no shortage of under-22 talent in the NHL to draw upon (Nash, Bouwmeester, Spezza, Fleury, Staal, Weiss, Hamhuis, Blackburn...). Russia will probably put up Kovalchuk, Chistov, and Svitov or Zherdev. But for the US ... if not Parise, then who? Name 3 more suitable US-born players under age 22. I can't even think of one. Mike Komisarek? Dustin Brown? I believe those are the only two eligible US players who have even played as many as a dozen NHL games.




One of the slots will go to Rick Dipietro (who probably would have been named to the team anyway). I can see a D-man named, and that leaves a forward. Dustin Brown, Ryan Kesler or Dan Fritsche I would guess.

Dustin Brown, Ryan Kesler or Dan Fritsche I would guess.

Parise is better then those three though.

Parise is better then those three though.

Right now, I don't think he would be. Not at the World Cup level.

Right now, I don't think he would be. Not at the World Cup level.

You want to tell me that right now Dustin Brown, Dan Fritsche and Ryan Kesler are better then Parise? And don't give me that they are playing the nhl; we all know they wouldn't crack the Devils roaster.

You want to tell me that right now Dustin Brown, Dan Fritsche and Ryan Kesler are better then Parise? And don't give me that they are playing the nhl; we all know they wouldn't crack the Devils roaster.

I know you should bring the "best" guy or the guy with the "hot hand", but what message would you be sending to the rest of the guys if you took Parise over the other guys mentioned? I dunno. It's a tough choice, and I'm sure Lou is glad he isn't the USA GM right now. ;)

Because of his size(5'11), that's the only thing I can think of or I've heard. But I tell you what if the entry draft was held today instead of last June I can't imagine how he would get past the 5th pick. Alot of teams have got to be kicking themselves right now.

Parise is a great talent no doubt about that, but if the entry draft was held today he still wouldn't be a top 5 pick, and probably not a top 10 pick.

The following players chosen in the top 10

Fleury, Staal, Horton, Zherdev, Vanek, Michalek, Suter, Coburn, Phaneuf & Kostitsyn.

Michalek injured his knee, is expected to make a full recovery, but had made the Sharks out of camp.

Haven't heard too much about Kostitsyn.

Parise hasn't passed any of those mentioned, except possibly Kostitsyn.

The Flyers are more than happy with Jeff Carter at the 11th selection.

The teams that may be kicking themselves are

Rangers - Jessiman
Kings - Brown (that pick is looking very solid as well)
Blackhawks - Seabrooke
Islanders - Nilsson
Sharks - Bernier

You want to tell me that right now Dustin Brown, Dan Fritsche and Ryan Kesler are better then Parise? And don't give me that they are playing the nhl; we all know they wouldn't crack the Devils roaster.

DiPietro and a defenseman. Parise will not get a spot over Brown, Fritsche or Kesler next year. I will give you the "they are playing in the NHL" because it matters. And of course they wouldn't crack the Devils roster. Neither would Parise.

Kesler is playing sporadically in the NHL and is getting regular time in the AHL. Brown is a regular and Fritsche is also a regular. Parise has never even played a pro game. I think he's a wicked prospect but considering the amount of solid forwards that USA hockey has right now, he'll be a victim of the numbers next year.

Not a problem though. I'm sure he'd rather be 100% focused on Devils camp rather than the WC camp.

One of the slots will go to Rick Dipietro (who probably would have been named to the team anyway). I can see a D-man, named, and that leaves a forward. Dustin Brown, Ryan Kesler or Dan Fritsche I would guess.

DiPietro was born September 19, 1981... if the wording of the rule is, indeed, 'under 22', and not '22 and under', then he's not eligible to be one of the three in 2004. Can anyone cite an official wording of the rule (hopefully with a specific date on which the age is to be measured) and not just some reporter's paraphrasing of it?


Note that, of the four you mentioned, only one is currently with an NHL club. I'll grant that Brown should/could be one of the three (and if DiPietro is eligible, him too). I really don't think Kesler or Fritsche should, though. Drafted lower in the same year, they only have NHL experience only because their teams felt they needed to rush them to the NHL (and subsequently right back out of the NHL) at their current age, while Lou did not feel the same about Parise.

The fact that they have some tiny amount of NHL experience does not vault them ahead of Parise. Especially not if Parise leads U20 Team USA to a medal and wins player-of-the-tournament.



Parise hasn't passed any of those mentioned, except possibly Kostitsyn.


By the same token, Kesler and Fritsche haven't 'passed' Parise, either. Which should land Parise in the US' top 3 under-22's.

I don't understand the facination with Vanek. I got to see alot of him; good skill and size but disappears for long periods of time during a game, doesn't seem to interested in playing defence.

I would compare Vanek to Oleg Kvasha.

I don't understand the facination with Vanek. I got to see alot of him; good skill and size but disappears for long periods of time during a game, doesn't seem to interested in playing defence.

I would compare Vanek to Oleg Kvasha.

Nice. I agree with you completely. The guy is clutch but I don't see how he went top five at all. There were a lot of others that weren't very impressed with him but weren't nearly as shocked as I was when he went top 5.

Parise is a great talent no doubt about that, but if the entry draft was held today he still wouldn't be a top 5 pick, and probably not a top 10 pick.

The following players chosen in the top 10

Fleury, Staal, Horton, Zherdev, Vanek, Michalek, Suter, Coburn, Phaneuf & Kostitsyn.

Michalek injured his knee, is expected to make a full recovery, but had made the Sharks out of camp.

Haven't heard too much about Kostitsyn.

Parise hasn't passed any of those mentioned, except possibly Kostitsyn.

The Flyers are more than happy with Jeff Carter at the 11th selection.

The teams that may be kicking themselves are

Rangers - Jessiman
Kings - Brown (that pick is looking very solid as well)
Blackhawks - Seabrooke
Islanders - Nilsson
Sharks - Bernier
I've haven't seen all the players play that you have listed, but I find hard to believe he would not go top ten now, especially after his performance in the WJC so far. And while he might not go top five as you say, but if he did I don't think anybody would call it a reach. You really think the Rangers are going to be kicking themselves John, because I thought Jessiman was a solid pick for them.

No offense, but yeah, you are getting ahead of yourself. Thankfully, U.S. hockey has progressed to the point where we don't need to rely on players in college or the minors to suit up for us in international tournaments. Parise is a great player, but he won't be needed this summer.
You know now that I've thought about it some more maybe I'm not getting ahead of myself. Reason being if Parise is going be the new face of USA hockey among others (Suter, Jessiman, Brown, etc.....), maybe it would be a good idea to bring a couple of them to the World Cup just for expierence, remember Lindros played in the '92 Canada Cup before he played a professional game, so it's something that has been done before. And right now Team USA is looking more like a pretender than a contender (aging D, suspect goaltending), I see right now the World Cup being a problem for us, I hate to use the word 'rebuild' but if we do maybe it might be wise to bring in some of that talent in now so when the '06 Olympics kicks around some of our boys who might be representing us then will have at least gotten their toes wet. And I'm not suggesting a major role, but just be part of it.

Parise is a great talent no doubt about that, but if the entry draft was held today he still wouldn't be a top 5 pick, and probably not a top 10 pick.

The following players chosen in the top 10

Fleury, Staal, Horton, Zherdev, Vanek, Michalek, Suter, Coburn, Phaneuf & Kostitsyn.

Michalek injured his knee, is expected to make a full recovery, but had made the Sharks out of camp.

Haven't heard too much about Kostitsyn.

Parise hasn't passed any of those mentioned, except possibly Kostitsyn.

The Flyers are more than happy with Jeff Carter at the 11th selection.


The contention is that if the draft were held right now, Parise would have gone no later than 5th, which I think is entirely possible. You're talking about an 18 year old that has scored 11 points in 5 games in the WJC, that is staggering production. I think that Fleury Staal, and Horton still would have gone ahead of him, and Zherdev possibly as well. But I could easily see him going in any slot after that. Teams wouldn't know who was going to make the cut in camp. I would be pleased with Jeff Carter as well, he's having a great tournament, and could very well end up being the better player, but the point is that it's unlikely he would have been selected ahead of Parise if the draft were held today.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=6550&mode=threaded&order=0

I think Parise is more of a scorer than Gomez, but I still think that he's more of a passer/playmaker than a sniper. I would compare him to Nedved, in that he can do both... :dunno:

The contention is that if the draft were held right now, Parise would have gone no later than 5th, which I think is entirely possible. You're talking about an 18 year old that has scored 11 points in 5 games in the WJC, that is staggering production. I think that Fleury Staal, and Horton still would have gone ahead of him, and Zherdev possibly as well. But I could easily see him going in any slot after that. Teams wouldn't know who was going to make the cut in camp. I would be pleased with Jeff Carter as well, he's having a great tournament, and could very well end up being the better player, but the point is that it's unlikely he would have been selected ahead of Parise if the draft were held today.


If the draft was held today the Flyers would still take Carter over Parise.

I also guaruntee you that the 3 defenseman, Phaneuf, Suter and Coburn would all also go ahead of Parise.

Of the current top 10, only 3 would possibly drop, Michalek (just because he hurt his knee, not because of performance), Kostitsyn, and maybe Vanek.

The WJC is important, but remember it's a two week tournamnet played under different rules than the NHL (bigger ice, no red line etc.)

Let's examine Carter and Parise since the draft. Just picking Carter, because I'm more familiar with him.

Carter has been the best or at worst one of the top 3 players in the OHL, and was leading the league in goals, before he got called to the WJC evaluation camp.

Parise, had a minor injury, and has played well for North Dakota is the WCHA (a league quite inferior to the OHL). Parise to this point in the season may not have been the best player on his team at North Dakota.

Parise has had a big first week to the WJC, especially on the PP. Carter has also been very good.

In the 6 months since the draft Carter has been better than Parise. One week doesn't cause Parise to jump over Carter & 10-12 other players drafted ahead of him.

In the end none of this matters, as it will all be played out in the NHL, and a guy like a Mike Richards (24th), O'Sullivan (56th), etc. could end up being better than all of them.

IMO the player whose stock has risen the most since draft day may be Phaneuf. He was chosen 9th, and if the draft was re-done IMO he would be taken 5th at worst.

Fair enough...

I don't think too many teams will be kicking themselves over their selections, there was an awful lot of talent in that draft.

I was really hoping The Devils would take O'Sullivan in the 2nd round, (I'm sure every other hf poster was hoping the same for their team though) The two things that still surprise me most about that draft is that O'Sullivan fell as far as he did, and that Florida was able to walk away with Horton, Stewart, and Fritsche. Unbelievable.

Fair enough...

I don't think too many teams will be kicking themselves over their selections, there was an awful lot of talent in that draft.

I was really hoping The Devils would take O'Sullivan in the 2nd round, (I'm sure every other hf poster was hoping the same for their team though) The two things that still surprise me most about that draft is that O'Sullivan fell as far as he did, and that Florida was able to walk away with Horton, Stewart, and Fritsche. Unbelievable.
I agree. Most teams are happy with their selections, maybe NYR but other than that I think they are pretty content. :)

If the draft was held today the Flyers would still take Carter over Parise.

I also guaruntee you that the 3 defenseman, Phaneuf, Suter and Coburn would all also go ahead of Parise.

Of the current top 10, only 3 would possibly drop, Michalek (just because he hurt his knee, not because of performance), Kostitsyn, and maybe Vanek.

The WJC is important, but remember it's a two week tournamnet played under different rules than the NHL (bigger ice, no red line etc.)

Let's examine Carter and Parise since the draft. Just picking Carter, because I'm more familiar with him.

Carter has been the best or at worst one of the top 3 players in the OHL, and was leading the league in goals, before he got called to the WJC evaluation camp.

Parise, had a minor injury, and has played well for North Dakota is the WCHA (a league quite inferior to the OHL). Parise to this point in the season may not have been the best player on his team at North Dakota.

Parise has had a big first week to the WJC, especially on the PP. Carter has also been very good.

In the 6 months since the draft Carter has been better than Parise. One week doesn't cause Parise to jump over Carter & 10-12 other players drafted ahead of him.

In the end none of this matters, as it will all be played out in the NHL, and a guy like a Mike Richards (24th), O'Sullivan (56th), etc. could end up being better than all of them.

IMO the player whose stock has risen the most since draft day may be Phaneuf. He was chosen 9th, and if the draft was re-done IMO he would be taken 5th at worst.

While I agree with you that Parise play has not been up to par this season at North Dakota, you can't discount the fact that the season prior he was thier best player (39 games, 26 goals, 35 assists, 61 points). This season is still young and I wouldn't be surprised if he picks it up after the WJC's. But I disagree that you can't rejudge someone based on one week, this is the big stage for these kids and when they step up big time on a stage like this (which Carter has done also) you do have to take notice of it. What Parise has done this week is proven he is a big money player and to me that's bigger than what one has done in early regular season games. IMO is still a top ten player based on that. I really have no idea if the Flyers would still take Carter over him and I think it's way to early to say who is better than who and I also think you know the players who were drafted better than I do but I can't imagine he wouldn't be taken top ten if it was held today.

I agree. Most teams are happy with their selections, maybe NYR but other than that I think they are pretty content. :)
Defintely, considering how good the Devils and Flyers are, for them to walk away with Parise and Carter, well it's almost criminal. The depth that the Flyers have at center now is just sick.

Carter has been the best or at worst one of the top 3 players in the OHL, and was leading the league in goals, before he got called to the WJC evaluation camp.

If OHL production was much of a measuring stick of a player's skill and development, Corey Locke would have been a top-5 pick and not the fourth-rounder he has been. The year after being the league's leading scorer and MVP he was drafted number 113.

Was Carter really the OHL's leading goalscorer before camp? He's within 3 games-played of all the other top goalscorers in the OHL, all of which are 5-9 goals agead of him, and the current leader has nine more goals than Carter on three fewer games played.

But I disagree that you can't rejudge someone based on one week, this is the big stage for these kids and when they step up big time on a stage like this (which Carter has done also) you do have to take notice of it. What Parise has done this week is proven he is a big money player and to me that's bigger than what one has done in early regular season games.


I wasn't trying to say that the 1st week of the WJC doesn't mean anything, obviously it means something.

The next two games will mean a hell of a lot more than the first four did.

I wasn't trying to say that the 1st week of the WJC doesn't mean anything, obviously it means something.

The next two games will mean a hell of a lot more than the first four did.
Your right they will, it sucks I won't be able to watch any of them. :cry:

ESPN sucks, forget that they don't televise the games they don't even cover it on their website, WTF???

If OHL production was much of a measuring stick of a player's skill and development, Corey Locke would have been a top-5 pick and not the fourth-rounder he has been. The year after being the league's leading scorer and MVP he was drafted number 113.

Was Carter really the OHL's leading goalscorer before camp? He's within 3 games-played of all the other top goalscorers in the OHL, all of which are 5-9 goals agead of him, and the current leader has nine more goals than Carter on three fewer games played.

It's not just OHL production, obviously there are other factors (size, skating ability, etc. etc.) that come into play.

I wasn't trying to turn this discussion into a Carter vs. Parise thread.

Just trying to point out that the first week of the WJC isn't enough to jump Parise from the 17th spot into the top 5. Top 10 ??, possibly but doubtful IMO. More likely 11-13.

I wasn't trying to turn this discussion into a Carter vs. Parise thread.

Just trying to point out that the first week of the WJC isn't enough to jump Parise from the 17th spot into the top 5. Top 10 ??, possibly but doubtful IMO. More likely 11-13.

Yeah, I'm not for turning it into Carter vs Parise either - or, for that matter, about where Parise would be drafted if the draft were held today. I'm still focussing on the topic that first drew me into this thread: is Parise one of the top three American players eligible to take the World Cup 2004 Under-22 roster slots? I don't think he needed to 'jump' anyone from his draft year to take that designation. He just needs to not have *been jumped* by Kesler or Fritsche. I think if Parise's perceived value may have sputtered on his not-exactly-dominating college performance this year to date, his WJC performance should at least get him back to where he was on draft day. That Vancouver and Nashville rushed their lower picks into the NHL doesn't make them better candidates for the World Cup, IMO. Those guys are not better than Parise. They weren't better than Parise on draft day and they aren't better than him today.

and that Florida was able to walk away with Horton, Stewart, and Fritsche. Unbelievable.
Columbus got Fritsche, maybe you're thinking about Kamil Kreps?

I think it's WAY too early for teams to be kicking themselves for not picking Parise, but if the draft was today I'm sure most teams would be thinking more seriously about picking Parise. The only team I could see "kicking" themselves would be the Rangers, because IMO they needed a good, safe pick, but instead they took a riskier selection in Jessiman.

Columbus got Fritsche, maybe you're thinking about Kamil Kreps?

I think it's WAY too early for teams to be kicking themselves for not picking Parise, but if the draft was today I'm sure most teams would be thinking more seriously about picking Parise. The only team I could see "kicking" themselves would be the Rangers, because IMO they needed a good, safe pick, but instead they took a riskier selection in Jessiman.
Yeah your the second guy to question Jessiman, I thought he was a real solid pick for the Rangers, were do you think he should have gone and why?

Columbus got Fritsche, maybe you're thinking about Kamil Kreps?


Yikes. Probably a combination of Florida getting Horton and Stewart, and Columbus getting Zherdev and Fritsche.

Yeah your the second guy to question Jessiman, I thought he was a real solid pick for the Rangers, were do you think he should have gone and why?

Jessiman would have been a solid pick at #12 in the weaker 01-02 draft. He's got good potential, but usually the high risk/high reward guys go toward the bottom of the first round in a deep draft. I feel the same way about Kastitsin, if you have a top 12 pick in the draft like 02-03, you have to use it on a higher percentage prospect, Jessiman is still very raw.

You know now that I've thought about it some more maybe I'm not getting ahead of myself. Reason being if Parise is going be the new face of USA hockey among others (Suter, Jessiman, Brown, etc.....), maybe it would be a good idea to bring a couple of them to the World Cup just for expierence, remember Lindros played in the '92 Canada Cup before he played a professional game, so it's something that has been done before. And right now Team USA is looking more like a pretender than a contender (aging D, suspect goaltending), I see right now the World Cup being a problem for us, I hate to use the word 'rebuild' but if we do maybe it might be wise to bring in some of that talent in now so when the '06 Olympics kicks around some of our boys who might be representing us then will have at least gotten their toes wet. And I'm not suggesting a major role, but just be part of it.



I don't see the U.S. being a pretender at all. Forwards will be dynamite, defense will have a few adjustments (add in Hatcher, Carney, and Leopold-subtract Suter, Housley, and probably Chelios), and goaltending will have some new faces (Esche, Dipietro etc), but nothing to outrageous. The U.S. will still ice one of the top two or three teams in the tourney. Personally, I see Canada and Russia as the main competition, and only Canada is without a weakness (IMO). As for having Parise on the team, you guys have worn me down, I guess it's a possibility, although I maintain a pro will get the call. Probably Dustin Brown, but that's my opinion.

Rangers - Jessiman
Kings - Brown (that pick is looking very solid as well)
Blackhawks - Seabrooke
Islanders - Nilsson
Sharks - Bernier

Rangers-maybe, I haven't heard too much about Jessiman thus far.

Kings-Highly doubtful that they are upset with Brown. They're near first with him in the lineup

Blackhawks-No chance that they are kicking themselves. Seabrook has played very well for Team Canada in the WJC thus far. Plus Vorobiev and Radulov are playing well for Norfolk.

Islanders-Yeah, I bet they're kicking themselves

Sharks-I doubt that they are upset. Bernier's 6'4" 220 or so and scoring regularly in juniors. I think that he's going to be a big time power forward and with the emergence of Marleau and Sturm lately, the skilled smaller guys are there.

I don't see the U.S. being a pretender at all. Forwards will be dynamite, defense will have a few adjustments (add in Hatcher, Carney, and Leopold-subtract Suter, Housley, and probably Chelios), and goaltending will have some new faces (Esche, Dipietro etc), but nothing to outrageous. The U.S. will still ice one of the top two or three teams in the tourney. Personally, I see Canada and Russia as the main competition, and only Canada is without a weakness (IMO). As for having Parise on the team, you guys have worn me down, I guess it's a possibility, although I maintain a pro will get the call. Probably Dustin Brown, but that's my opinion.
I agree that we will still field a tough team, I'm just concerned at the goaltending, Team USA's success have always been a result of Richter standing on top of his head in past tournements. Right now our top three prospects are Esche, Dunham and Brent Johnson of St Louis, none of which have been too impressive this year (well maybe Esche a little). I agree with you on the forwards, they are our strentgh and hopefully are dmen will be also strong but without a top notch goalie I think it will be a problem to win the gold but I really hope I'm wrong on this I really do. As for having Parise (or Suter, Brown, etc.....) on the team I have not suggested that they would have to play a major role, hell they really doesn't need to play at all, I just thought it might be a good idea to have a couple of young players who look like they might be a part of the 2006 Olympic team be there for expiernce, but the roster size would be important, I have no idea how many players each country is allowed to carry and it be important that while they are there they don't take up valuable space. With all that being said you are probably right it will probably be all pros I'm just throwing things out there for the sake of conversation and I apologize if it sounds like I'm shoving Parise down anybody's throats. :)

Jessiman would have been a solid pick at #12 in the weaker 01-02 draft. He's got good potential, but usually the high risk/high reward guys go toward the bottom of the first round in a deep draft. I feel the same way about Kastitsin, if you have a top 12 pick in the draft like 02-03, you have to use it on a higher percentage prospect, Jessiman is still very raw.
Add that to the way the Rangers develop their prospects and Jessiman is on the top of my list for potential busts. Look at what they are doing to Lundmark.

but the roster size would be important, I have no idea how many players each country is allowed to carry and it be important that while they are there they don't take up valuable space. With all that being said you are probably right it will probably be all pros I'm just throwing things out there for the sake of conversation and I apologize if it sounds like I'm shoving Parise down anybody's throats. :)

The rules as I've seen them printed state that each team carries 26 players (3 goalies and 23 skaters), dresses 20 for each game (18 skaters and 2 goalies), and must carry at least three players under the age of 22.

This is the point I'm trying to make about Parise - he's likely one of those three. For this team to name 'all pros' it would mean giving those roster slots to 'lesser' talents like Kesler and Fritsche. I mean, these guys (the under-22 crop, whether Parise is in or out) aren't likely to play in the tournament anyways - the bench is five skaters long. But what would serve Team USA better: to name a player who has been a leader for Team USA (WJC edition) in the past and seems most likely to continue to be a member of Team USA well into his pro career, or name some players who weren't percieved as being 'as good' as recently as last summer, by virtue of having been given a handful of games of NHL experience?

I don't see what would be gained by naming lesser talents to 'ride the pine' at the World Cup. If the likely only role of these under-22 players will be to become a part of the Team USA 'family', why not name someone who has a better international-hockey past and what looks to be a brighter future as a member of that family?

That's what Parise has. I'm not saying Carter, Brown and the others don't have, but, whenever scouts and teammates talk about Zach, it's always mentioned that he's winner a leader and fearless. This game is also mental as well as talent and this kid has it all. He was projected by The Hockey News as a top ten pick, luckily for the Devils, he droped. I believe Parise will one day be the Devil captain and I think this kid will help get the U.S. the gold on Monday.

If the draft was held today the Flyers would still take Carter over Parise.

I also guaruntee you that the 3 defenseman, Phaneuf, Suter and Coburn would all also go ahead of Parise.

Of the current top 10, only 3 would possibly drop, Michalek (just because he hurt his knee, not because of performance), Kostitsyn, and maybe Vanek.

The WJC is important, but remember it's a two week tournamnet played under different rules than the NHL (bigger ice, no red line etc.)

Let's examine Carter and Parise since the draft. Just picking Carter, because I'm more familiar with him.

Carter has been the best or at worst one of the top 3 players in the OHL, and was leading the league in goals, before he got called to the WJC evaluation camp.
Parise, had a minor injury, and has played well for North Dakota is the WCHA (a league quite inferior to the OHL). Parise to this point in the season may not have been the best player on his team at North Dakota.

Parise has had a big first week to the WJC, especially on the PP. Carter has also been very good.

In the 6 months since the draft Carter has been better than Parise. One week doesn't cause Parise to jump over Carter & 10-12 other players drafted ahead of him.

In the end none of this matters, as it will all be played out in the NHL, and a guy like a Mike Richards (24th), O'Sullivan (56th), etc. could end up being better than all of them.

IMO the player whose stock has risen the most since draft day may be Phaneuf. He was chosen 9th, and if the draft was re-done IMO he would be taken 5th at worst.

Parise will turn out to be the best all around player from the 2003 Draft!

Is there possiblity that Parise could become one of the Devils core members like Niedermayer or Stevens. One of those players that are the center piece to the team winning?

Is there possiblity that Parise could become one of the Devils core members like Niedermayer or Stevens. One of those players that are the center piece to the team winning?

I'd say there's a good chance he's going to be a big time impact player for us for years to come. Might be able to attract some prolific goal scorers to NJ with the prospects of him at center.

Wow, there is sure alot of excitement on this board. Parise will definitely be a player but still I think you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. If the draft was redone, he would have been picked sooner but not top 5. Fleury, Staal, Horton, Zherdev, Phaneuf, Suter, Coburn and Carter would still have gone before him imo. I'm think there are a few others that might have gone before him as well(Vanek, Jessiman, Michalek, Kostitsyn)

I can't believe it. He seems to be possibly one of the most offensively explosive players in the draft, and he goes to New Jersey. Oh the irony.

I can't believe it. He seems to be possibly one of the most offensively explosive players in the draft, and he goes to New Jersey. Oh the irony.

Why? The Devils have a pretty big need at center for a great playmaker with blinding offense right now. This isn't the Ottawa Senators stockpiling unrivaled depth on right wing with Hossa, Havlat, and Alfredsson mind you. We need all the help we can get to score more then 2 goals a night. Be happy for us instead of playing out what his fantasy stats will be on a defensive minded team in Playstation 2 land.

Parise named to the tournament all-star team, named top forward, and tournament MVP :bow:

What an awesome accomplishment for team USA. Outgunned and overmatched, they just wanted it more.

What an awesome accomplishment for team USA. Outgunned and overmatched, they just wanted it more.

I don't know about "Outgunned and overmatched. USA was favoured from the start because they had the most guys returning to the Tournament. Team Canada on the other hand was (I believe) the youngest group there.