Rafalski for Niedermayer

Regardless of whether or not the Ducks would accept it, would you pull the trigger on a deal centered around Rafalski for Niedermayer?

Yes.

In my eyes scotty is on a whole different level of playing compared to rafalski and the rest of the league (same level as lidstrom) at that. So yes i would most deffinetly pull the trigger on that trade, because i beleive scotty would help this team more, raffi is awesome but neidermayer is neidermayer folks!

No.




I'm kidding. Of course you make that deal.

Hell I'd trade for Rob Niedermayer, that would be SO funny.

eeeeeeeeeeee.... yes :D

Is this even neccesary?

It's a hypothetical. Considering Burke would only accept Gomez in return for Rob Niedermayer when Lou tried to trade for him, and considering Scott just won the Conn Smythe and led them to a Cup, there's no way this would realistically happen. The main question here is the loyalty factor and if that affects whether or not certain players should be traded for. Also, Rafalski is the only defenseman (using this year's numbers) with a comparable contract to Niedermayer's

This obsession with Niedermayer, guys, really... put it to rest. Does anyone ever rip Scott Stevens for signing an offer sheet to potentially return to St. Louis in July of 1994??

For the record, this would never happen, considering Rafalski is a UFA in less than a month.

For the record, this would never happen, considering Rafalski is a UFA in less than a month.

and considering that he isn't even close to Neidermayer in talent.

Anyone remember about 5 years ago, when there was talk that Rafalski might develop into a Norris candidate?

are there people who would seriously say no to this?

i thought this was a joke thread at first

Still a joke thread.

as long as we're fantasizing... how about trading Mogilny for a 3rd jersey for afternoon games?

I think a black jersey with the character from the Devils Den catalogue would be sweeeet!

wow. Look how bored we all are with out hockey. :sarcasm:

This obsession with Niedermayer, guys, really... put it to rest. Does anyone ever rip Scott Stevens for signing an offer sheet to potentially return to St. Louis in July of 1994??

I was about 7-8 years old at the time, so I don't exactly know of the situation....but from what I've heard they were entirely different situations. Stevens didn't want to come here to begin with, I heard he was pissed about being sent to Jersey because he liked it in St. Louis. And he hadn't been here for long. Nieds was here from the beginning of his career and had experienced so much winning with the Devils, and owed a lot of his development to the organization...then turned down more money to go elsewhere.

My only problem with trading to get Neidermayer back -if there was even a chance that could happen- is he didn't want to sign when he was a UFA, but Rafalski did. He waited until Neidermayer signed with the Ducks to do anything. Regardless of how much better Neidermayer is, I think it's better to have someone on a team who's loyal and actually wants to be there, as opposed to someone who's there for the money or because of a trade. You could say Stevens didn't want to be here at first, and look how good he turned out to be, but I think there's a big difference between the two situations.
Would I trade Rafalski for Neidermayer, if it was up to me? I truely don't know.

the question is, is it all about just winning? Or having a team that wants to play in NJ and loves the NJ fans?

Which do you prefer?

the question is, is it all about just winning? Or having a team that wants to play in NJ and loves the NJ fans?

Which do you prefer?

Can't it be both? Though, as I said, I'd rather have players that want to play here, because they'll most likely play better if they're playing on a team they want to play on.

This obsession with Niedermayer, guys, really... put it to rest. Does anyone ever rip Scott Stevens for signing an offer sheet to potentially return to St. Louis in July of 1994??

Acutally, he was heavily criticized at the time, especially since the team made it within an overtime of making the 1994 Cup Finals.

He was also heavily criticized for threatening to not report to the Devils to start the 1991 season after the arbitration case.

Not sure how your example is relevant to this discussion.

Fing right I would lol

This might surprise you guys, but I say no. Yes Niedermayer is a top 3 defenseman in the league, but when it comes down to it, he didn't want to be a Devil. It was more important for him to be with his brother. If thats the case, and there is no way for the Devils to acquire Niedermayer, its best we stick to the soldiers who'd give blood to the organization. If we re-acquired Niedermayer, we could have another situation like 2004 in a few years, then what are the Devils going to do? I think the answer here is no.

If we re-acquired Niedermayer, we could have another situation like 2004 in a few years, then what are the Devils going to do?

get Rob Niedermayer here to make Scott happy. ;)

obviously.

So in reality the question is trading for a far superior player and giving a less talented (though still talented) loyal player? is this really a question? anyone who keeps Rafalski is simply kidding themselves and does not care entirely about winning and thinks loyalty is a far greater asset.

if someone said Brylin for Semin or Ovechkin and chose to stick with loyal Brylin then there is a serious issue here with this fantasy about undying loyalty to Lou.

the question is, is it all about just winning? Or having a team that wants to play in NJ and loves the NJ fans?

Which do you prefer?

DIfferent situation though - Stevens wasn't really a Devil at that point, he was just biding his time. After that offer sheet was matched he became the player we know so well.

And you can't fault Neidermayer - we can fault the fools who go for the big money and nothing else (Holik) but Neidermayer went where his heart was. No fault. I still hate him though.

And you can't fault Neidermayer - we can fault the fools who go for the big money and nothing else (Holik) but Neidermayer went where his heart was. No fault. I still hate him though.

That's exactly what I think of it, but I don't hate him. I don't love him, but I do respect him.

A million dollars or a bag of sand?

Acutally, he was heavily criticized at the time, especially since the team made it within an overtime of making the 1994 Cup Finals.

He was also heavily criticized for threatening to not report to the Devils to start the 1991 season after the arbitration case.

Not sure how your example is relevant to this discussion.

Oh but there is because no one here who rips Niedermayer ever brings up the Stevens situation. Let's ask everyone if we should rip down the Stevens banner! And how quickly we forget Niedermayer had a couple of bitter arbitration/contract negotiations with NJ, perhaps Niedermayer felt the organization had not been loyal to him for all he had done. This is just as legitimate a reason for Niedermayer to walk away from NJ as it was for Stevens to attempt the same. But I don't even believe that's it. He says it was about family and I believe him. Why is that so hard for people to except? Some people just look at life differently than others.

Let it go. Aren't we tired of hating Niedermayer yet? He helped win us 3 Stanley Cups, end of story.

I'd do it in a heart beat...but I doubt it would ever happen

Gezz this is a tough one,hmmmm Nope I want to keep the man that was on his back 89% of the Ottawa series.

Gezz this is a tough one,hmmmm Nope I want to keep the man that was on his back 89% of the Ottawa series.

Please, Neidermayer would have hardly been more physical. Taking another trip to Negativeville, are we???

A million dollars or a bag of sand?

Pretty much sums it up. I was going to say trade my $20 bill for your $100 bill, but yours is much funnier.

Honestly, I first thought this thread was either a total joke or would be flamed out of existence by slack-jawed HFers, but people seem to be taking this question seriously. Wow.

Pretty much sums it up. I was going to say trade my $20 bill for your $100 bill, but yours is much funnier.

Honestly, I first thought this thread was either a total joke or would be flamed out of existence by slack-jawed HFers, but people seem to be taking this question seriously. Wow.
Yeah, there really is no question here. If we were talking about two players of the same caliber, of course I'd pick the more loyal player. And even if we were talking about a slight talent discrepancy I might pick the more loyal/less talented player. But Niedermayer is one of the top three defenseman in the game, and as much as I like Rafalski he's just not in that league.

Is this a trick question?

Oh but there is because no one here who rips Niedermayer ever brings up the Stevens situation. Let's ask everyone if we should rip down the Stevens banner! And how quickly we forget Niedermayer had a couple of bitter arbitration/contract negotiations with NJ, perhaps Niedermayer felt the organization had not been loyal to him for all he had done. This is just as legitimate a reason for Niedermayer to walk away from NJ as it was for Stevens to attempt the same. But I don't even believe that's it. He says it was about family and I believe him. Why is that so hard for people to except? Some people just look at life differently than others.

Let it go. Aren't we tired of hating Niedermayer yet? He helped win us 3 Stanley Cups, end of story.

Let what go? What does that mean? The loss of Niedermayer was a tremendous blow to this organization, that in which we have not yet recovered.

And besides, there is a big difference with what Stevens actually said...and did...as he never hurt the team by holding out for a contract or doing the team a disservice by waiting until the last possible minute to make his decision to leave in the summer of 2005.

Stevens was not a Devils draft choice, free agent signing or obtained through a trade. He came here against his will and never wanted to be here from the start. He was angry about this, as any NHL player would be. However after 1994, he had a change of heart and wanted to be a Devil for life, which he was. That's why many people forgive him and this is perhaps why your comparison can be construed as being silly.

It's a perfectly valid comparison because Scott Niedermayer, much like Scott Stevens or any other player, is not an indentured servant; but if blaming Niedermayer for the poor free agent signings of July 2005 and the lack of quality draft picks on defense in recent years makes you feel better, go ahead.

Let what go? What does that mean? The loss of Niedermayer was a tremendous blow to this organization, that in which we have not yet recovered.

And besides, there is a big difference with what Stevens actually said...and did...as he never hurt the team by holding out for a contract or doing the team a disservice by waiting until the last possible minute to make his decision to leave in the summer of 2005.

Stevens was not a Devils draft choice, free agent signing or obtained through a trade. He came here against his will and never wanted to be here from the start. He was angry about this, as any NHL player would be. However after 1994, he had a change of heart and wanted to be a Devil for life, which he was. That's why many people forgive him and this is perhaps why your comparison can be construed as being silly.

Hating Niedermayer for leaving the organization and taking time to decide would be as stupid as hating Stevens for taking time to make his decision on whether he was retiring or not. Nobody is criticizing Stevens now are they? As well they should not.

Being dissapointed that Niedermayer is no longer a member of the Devils is one thing, but being bitter and hating him for taking less money to play with his brother and taking time to make a tough decision is just unreasonable.

Niedermayer is a class guy who has done nothing but praise the Devils organization and attributes his success to the years he spent with NJ.

As for who is better between Niedermayer and Rafalski it is laughable and beyond ridicolous.

Niedermayer is the BEST defenseman in hockey. Better then Lidstrom. Better then Pronger. Better then Redden and Phillips.

Let what go? What does that mean? The loss of Niedermayer was a tremendous blow to this organization, that in which we have not yet recovered.

And besides, there is a big difference with what Stevens actually said...and did...as he never hurt the team by holding out for a contract or doing the team a disservice by waiting until the last possible minute to make his decision to leave in the summer of 2005.

Stevens was not a Devils draft choice, free agent signing or obtained through a trade. He came here against his will and never wanted to be here from the start. He was angry about this, as any NHL player would be. However after 1994, he had a change of heart and wanted to be a Devil for life, which he was. That's why many people forgive him and this is perhaps why your comparison can be construed as being silly.

Stevens negotiated with another team before he was even allowed to do so!!!

That's not hurting your franchise who holds your exculsive rights?:shakehead

And stop kidding yourself into thinking that Lou knew way prior to July 1st that chances were that Nieds was walking.

He knew his intentions and he also negotiated with Scott prior to July 1st when he was the only one allowed to do so and when Lou turned around and offered the absolute MAX that he or any team could meaning money was no longer a factor as the Devs would be the top bid then Lou at that point after Scott didn't immediately accept it knew that he was most likely losing Nieds unless he can somehow talk him out of signing elsewhere so stop acting like Lou didn't' have a chance at the backup plan.

Lou felt it was best trying to take his chances at trying to change Nieds mind as he wasn't likely to go after an Adam Foote or any top end UFA's as he never did anyway so unless you going to say how Odelein would've made a difference again had you not been held up by Nieds I'd lay off the Nieds is a dbag stuff.

but if blaming Niedermayer for the poor free agent signings of July 2005 and the lack of quality draft picks on defense in recent years makes you feel better, go ahead.

Blaming Niedermayer for lack of quality draft picks?

Huh???

Not sure where you got that one from.

Being dissapointed that Niedermayer is no longer a member of the Devils is one thing, but being bitter and hating him for taking less money to play with his brother and taking time to make a tough decision is just unreasonable.


Who says they are bitter and hate him? Show me where I said this?

But answer this question:

Why did Lou sign Malakhov & McGillis, and who then should he have signed to replace Niedermayer after his 11th hour decision to leave?

Stevens negotiated with another team before he was even allowed to do so!!!

That's not hurting your franchise who holds your exculsive rights?:shakehead

No actually, it's not when it occurs in the offseason during the course of a just a few weeks.

And stop kidding yourself into thinking that Lou knew way prior to July 1st that chances were that Nieds was walking.

Lou thought he was staying. Broduer and most of the team thought he was staying. Everyone knows this.

He knew his intentions and he also negotiated with Scott prior to July 1st when he was the only one allowed to do so and when Lou turned around and offered the absolute MAX that he or any team could meaning money was no longer a factor as the Devs would be the top bid then Lou at that point after Scott didn't immediately accept it knew that he was most likely losing Nieds unless he can somehow talk him out of signing elsewhere so stop acting like Lou didn't' have a chance at the backup plan.

We know it wasn't about money. Everyone knows this.

The backup plan was signing Malakhov & McGillis and it failed.

Perhaps if Niedermayer made his decision quicker and not at the last possible minute, Lou's "backup plan" perhaps could have been more successful. This is the issue and many Devils fans are angry that he took so long to make his decision.

Lou felt it was best trying to take his chances at trying to change Nieds mind as he wasn't likely to go after an Adam Foote or any top end UFA's as he never did anyway so unless you going to say how Odelein would've made a difference again had you not been held up by Nieds I'd lay off the Nieds is a dbag stuff.

Actually, Adam Foote & Lyle Odelein would have certainly been better choices than Malakhov & McGillis. You're probably the only person who would disagree.

And who is actually calling Nieds a "dbag"??? :shakehead

Once again, your post makes absoulutely no sense, not mention major innacuracies.

Blaming Niedermayer for lack of quality draft picks?

Huh???

Not sure where you got that one from.



Who says they are bitter and hate him? Show me where I said this?

But answer this question:

Why did Lou sign Malakhov & McGillis, and who then should he have signed to replace Niedermayer after his 11th hour decision to leave?


yeah, I can see how you'd think Scott was going to stick around after Lou offered him the absolute max $$$ he could be offered anywhere and Scott didn't immediately accept it.:shakehead

yeah, I can see how you'd think Scott was going to stick around after Lou offered him the absolute max $$$ he could be offered anywhere and Scott didn't immediately accept it.:shakehead

well JR, if we have already established that it's not about the money, then seeing how he didn't make his decision immediatley after Lou offered him a max contract is certainly not a reason to think that Lou should have known his intentions at that point.

Please, Neidermayer would have hardly been more physical. Taking another trip to Negativeville, are we???

Whah ,whah did you see the finals? What Neids on his butt 98% of the time? Was he matched up against the top line? Did he shut them down? Neids for Ralf and a nut would be a better offer.