We need him more than he needed us

With Nieds on the verge of Stanley Cup #4 and well on his way to becoming a first ballot hall of famer (If he wasn't already) it looks like we needed Scotty more than he needed us and if we don't fill the void that he left by signing a top 5 defensman (sadly 3 of the top 5 are locked with the teams they're with. That being Lidstrom, Nieder and Prongs) we won't see another Stanley Cup here for a while. We have Marty, but he NIEDS help. Priority one should be use all available money to make the best defense core possible and just use whoever as first line center because you never know who is going to step up and fill the void left by Gomez. I mean who knew Andy MacDonald could be a #1 C, so yeah.......DEFENSE!

**** Niedermayer! I hope he rottens in Anaheim!

**** Niedermayer! I hope he rottens in Anaheim!

lol........I think at this point he doesn't care.

By the way.......do you think winning a Stanley Cup is rotting :help:

I'm really happy for him. I always thought that we won because of him, and he was a integral part of the devils. We had a shot at the cup last two years and would have made it if he was here.

You have to admit he's where he belongs. His points almost doubled in the ducks. I think he plays really well with his brother.

Lou should have tried to sign/trade for Rob Niedermayer years ago. I'm sure he could have been had for a minimal price.
If he were here Scott would still be too...
The Devils would be in the finals looking for #4 or maybe even #5

I think if theres any fault with Lou, it is that he's too slow to act sometimes. Its one thing to plot methodically, but sometimes you need to jump at opportunities. That definately was an opportunity missed. Even if we had traded Gomez we would have been in better shape because Rob isn't that bad of a player but we certainly needed his brother.

I for one would jump at the chance to sign them once their contract ends in Anaheim.

It's all but a forgone conclusion it will happen but I still don't like the fact that there is like a 90% chance they'll win. I just don't want to see it happen.

Lou should have tried to sign/trade for Rob Niedermayer years ago. I'm sure he could have been had for a minimal price.
If he were here Scott would still be too...
The Devils would be in the finals looking for #4 or maybe even #5


He did and it never worked out because he was either traded or signed for before Lou pulled the trigger.

Well he sure did need us. He didn't need us when he signed with Anaheim, but spending his early career in NJ really made him the complete player he is today. Let's not forget that he single handedly eliminated us from the playoffs two years. ;) ('94 and '99)

I didn't see him get his stick caught in the boards in Anaheim. :madfire:

Lou should have tried to sign/trade for Rob Niedermayer years ago. I'm sure he could have been had for a minimal price.
If he were here Scott would still be too...
The Devils would be in the finals looking for #4 or maybe even #5
He did. He tried to get him from Calgary in 2003, but Anaheim had acquired him 5 minutes before. The following season he tried repeatedly to get him from the Ducks, but they demanded Scott Gomez in return, which was a gross overpayment.

I wonder if Lou tried to sign Rob when he was a FA.

We lost Niedermayer and Stevens and we replaced them with #4/#5 d-men and we still managed to finish in the top 8 of our conference regardless of the fact that we lost 2 HOF'ers.

It just seems that even if we lose our top guys, we'll always have a competitive team to showcase. Niedermayer can stay in Anaheim for all I care, Lou (and David)will find some one in a draft, free agency (not likely) or via trades but you can bet that he'll be moving once july 1st comes around if we lose Gomez.

Our backbone is our defense even if our best players are Elias, Parise, Gionta and some guy named Brodeur. We desperatly need a solid d-men to help Rafalski because he can't play another full season averaging 30 minutes per game for 82 games and still have some gas left in his tank for the playoff run.

P.S. Schneider would fill that role to perfection I.M.O. ;)

We lost Niedermayer and Stevens and we replaced them with #4/#5 d-men and we still managed to finish in the top 8 of our conference regardless of the fact that we lost 2 HOF'ers.

It just seems that even if we lose our top guys, we'll always have a competitive team to showcase. Niedermayer can stay in Anaheim for all I care, Lou (and David)will find some one in a draft, free agency (not likely) or via trades but you can bet that he'll be moving once july 1st comes around if we lose Gomez.

Our backbone is our defense even if our best players are Elias, Parise, Gionta and some guy named Brodeur. We desperatly need a solid d-men to help Rafalski because he can't play another full season averaging 30 minutes per game for 82 games and still have some gas left in his tank for the playoff run.

P.S. Schneider would fill that role to perfection I.M.O. ;)

I'm really happy for him. I always thought that we won because of him, and he was a integral part of the devils. We had a shot at the cup last two years and would have made it if he was here.

You have to admit he's where he belongs. His points almost doubled in the ducks. I think he plays really well with his brother.

That's what happens when you escape a defensive system and spread your wings.

Now that it's apparent that the brothers will win a cup together I'm kind of happy for them both. Lou tried to trade for Rob, but Bukre wouldn't trade him for good reason as we all now know. Seeing Scott left the cup again will certainly bring back some fond memories and a sad feeling that it should have been as captain of the Devils not the Ducks.

I can't stand seing the Ducks win...Even though I like a few players on the team, I never wanted to see Giguerre get a cup. It's just anohter goalie that all of the haters will now try to make better than Brodeur.
Marty never fully gets the respect he deseres as the #1 goalie of his era and probably all time. There is always some goalie who has a few good years that detracts from what Brodeur has done since the day he came in the league.
Jim Carey, Dominik Hasek, Olaf Kolzig, Giguerre...they all stole Marty's thunder and it's not right!

It's all but a forgone conclusion it will happen but I still don't like the fact that there is like a 90% chance they'll win. I just don't want to see it happen.

Niedermayer definitely needed Stevens/Brodeur/etc. to win his cups with NJ.

He did and it never worked out because he was either traded or signed for before Lou pulled the trigger.



rob Niedermayer Sucks. He is nothing but a 3rd liner at best....He wouldve been a waste of money.


Let Scott win his 4th cup. If the Ducks win, Scott Niedermayer gets his first Conne Smythe. Good for him.

rob Niedermayer Sucks. He is nothing but a 3rd liner at best....He wouldve been a waste of money.


Let Scott win his 4th cup. If the Ducks win, Scott Niedermayer gets his first Conne Smythe. Good for him.

Rob Nieds has been better in this playoff than Madden was.

I hate that the situation as much as anyone else, but I don't understand (not necessarily you) why some people are so bitter about this. It's one of those
things. The lockout. That's it. I just have a sense that we would have
gotten him out of here if the 04-05 season is played, and gotten a return.
I don't know why I think that, though, it goes against Lou's every instinct.

Rob Nieds has been better in this playoff than Madden was.

I hate that the situation as much as anyone else, but I don't understand (not necessarily you) why some people are so bitter about this. It's one of those
things. The lockout. That's it. I just have a sense that we would have
gotten him out of here if the 04-05 season is played, and gotten a return.
I don't know why I think that, though, it goes against Lou's every instinct.

Yes Rob Neids has eaten Madden alive this past year. And Madden is alot faster than Rob. Rob uses his brains more however. That Neids-Moen-Pahlsson line is terrifying. they will be the Guardians of the Gates of Hell when they die.

Frankly, I'm glad for Niedermeyer. I still like the guy and I still think he is the best defenseman in the league - mainly because he learned defense in NJ to go along with his natural offensive talents, and so became a more complete player than 99.9% of the d-men out there.

I don't know if anyone believes in fates and "hockey gods", but you know it was inevitable that the Devils stop winning championships and the Ducks win one of their own when Devils fans started saying that Niedermeyer wasn't going to win another championship without the Devils. ;)

I'm just happy that it'll be "Ducks" oengraved on the Cup instead of "Mighty Ducks" - at least Anaheim waited long enough to spare us that.

And, when he wins that championship for his brother, maybe next time he's a FA he'll come back to NJ and finish his career there.

I wonder if Lou tried to sign Rob when he was a FA.
Rob never went UFA. His last free agency was RFA with the Ducks. So the answer is no.

I hate that the situation as much as anyone else, but I don't understand (not necessarily you) why some people are so bitter about this.

Because he played around and wasn't direct about his intentions. That huge list of good FA's was down to **** by the time he finally admitted he wouldn't sign with us. The guy was set on helping his hack brother win a cup all along, and he wouldn't have been able to if the Ducklings didn't hit the jackpot because Pronger was so ***** whipped.

Because he played around and wasn't direct about his intentions. That huge list of good FA's was down to **** by the time he finally admitted he wouldn't sign with us. The guy was set on helping his hack brother win a cup all along, and he wouldn't have been able to if the Ducklings didn't hit the jackpot because Pronger was so ***** whipped.

That's not his fault, that's Lou's fault. Have a plan B. He had to figure there was
a decent chance Nieds was walking, especially when he'd been home for around a year. It's a bizarre situation to expect loyalty, to what? Especially when it's the most sought-after player in the pool.

It was collateral damage from the lockout.

That's not his fault, that's Lou's fault. Have a plan B. He had to figure there was
a decent chance Nieds was walking, especially when he'd been home for around a year. It's a bizarre situation to expect loyalty, to what? Especially when it's the most sought-after player in the pool.

It was collateral damage from the lockout.

Yes, and that Plan B gets shot to hell if the ******* you're waiting for to make a decision takes so long that all the good Plan B players have signed elsewhere. If you know you're going to sign with someone else, be direct and sign right away, don't play around. (And there's no way he wasn't set on signing there from the start, he turned down the max contract from us.) Therefore, it is Traitormayer's fault.

1st of all Lou is smart enough to know when it got to June 30th that Nieds was most likely gone so let's not act like he was shocked that he walked because the writing was certainly on the wall and Lou knew this from his talks w/Nieds camp but was trying to desperately change Scott's mind.

Secondly, who exactly would Lou have been able to ink had he known on July 1st that Nieds was going to bolt?

I just don't understand how everyone can claim to have been in Scott Niedermayer's head and know that he never had any intention to sign here. If that was the case, why did Brian Burke fly to Vancouver to talk with both brothers the day before they announced signing with the Ducks. Personally I think he was planning to come back because he didn't have faith in the Ducks, until Burke came and talked to him. And then he made his decision. See I can pretend to know exactly what happened to. ;)

Secondly, who exactly would Lou have been able to ink had he known on July 1st that Nieds was going to bolt?

Sergei Gonchar, Lyle Odelein, Brian Leetch, Teppo Numminen, Alexi Zhitnick, Adam Foote, Brian Berard, Adrian Aucoin, among others.

You asked.

P.S. Here's a list of signings from the summer of 2005:
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/05_free_agents_2.htm

Sergei Gonchar, Lyle Odelein, Brian Leetch, Teppo Numminen, Alexi Zhitnick, Adam Foote, Brian Berard, Adrian Aucoin, among others.

You asked.

Lyle Odelein?:biglaugh:

Leetchie obviously never would play for NJ.

Gonchar got 25 million for 5 yrs..net exactly Lou's type of contract and who's to say he would've signed w/NJ when the up and coming Pens were offering him that much.

Foote was a possibility and probrably the best option but obviously he has been a player on the decline.

Aucoin's play and his contract have had an inverted relationship.

Berard wouldn't mesh well within the Devils system where dman don't pinch/roam.

Zhitnik would've also been a decent option and his game would've translated well within the Devs system.

The point being that people have to stop acting like Lou missed out on all these top end dmen because of Nieds stalling on his decision to bolt because a) Lou knew he was against the odds in getting him back and b)Lou has never gone after top UFA players nor have top UFA signed in NJ.

1st of all Lou is smart enough to know when it got to June 30th that Nieds was most likely gone so let's not act like he was shocked that he walked because the writing was certainly on the wall and Lou knew this from his talks w/Nieds camp but was trying to desperately change Scott's mind.

Exactly. Lou's a smart guy. I'm 100% sure he knew what the situation was and took a chance. That's Lou's fault - not Niedermeyer's fault.

Lyle Odelein?:biglaugh:

Leetchie obviously never would play for NJ.

Gonchar got 25 million for 5 yrs..net exactly Lou's type of contract and who's to say he would've signed w/NJ when the up and coming Pens were offering him that much.

Foote was a possibility and probrably the best option but obviously he has been a player on the decline.

Aucoin's play and his contract have had an inverted relationship.

Berard wouldn't mesh well within the Devils system where dman don't pinch/roam.

Zhitnik would've also been a decent option and his game would've translated well within the Devs system.

The point being that people have to stop acting like Lou missed out on all these top end dmen because of Nieds stalling on his decision to bolt because a) Lou knew he was against the odds in getting him back and b)Lou has never gone after top UFA players nor have top UFA signed in NJ.


See, you asked a question and now you're angry.

Besides, Lyle Odelein already played here and fit in well, not to mention he's an improvement over Malakhov & McGillis. Actually everyone I mentioned is an improvement over those 2.

$5 million for Gonchar for 5 years is cheap by the way.

And how the heck do you know that Leetch wouldn't play here?

Right.....I knew you would come up with a boatload of excuses about each player I mentioned. :biglaugh:

Actually everyone I mentioned is an improvement over those 2.


So freaking true!


And how the heck do you know that Leetch wouldn't play here?


Leetch did say on the fan that he wouldn't play for the Devils, Isles or Flyers and that all teams did inquire but he wouldn't do it.

Leetch did say on the fan that he wouldn't play for the Devils, Isles or Flyers and that all teams did inquire but he wouldn't do it.

I don't recall that but I wouldn't have been surprised if he did say that.

But if Leetch was 10 years younger than he was and Lou gave him the right offer for the right amount of time & money, I'm sure he would have changed his mind. Happens all the time in sports.

Besides, if the Devils, Isles or Flyers came calling just this past season, he would have signed rather than sit out the season like he did waiting for his phone to ring with an offer.

I don't recall that but I wouldn't have been surprised if he did say that.

But if Leetch was 10 years younger than he was and Lou gave him the right offer for the right amount of time & money, I'm sure he would have changed his mind. Happens all the time in sports.

Besides, if the Devils, Isles or Flyers came calling just this past season, he would have signed rather than sit out the season like he did waiting for his phone to ring with an offer.

I agree with the younger part, he probably would have. It was this past season though, it was right at the beginning of the season, he was on the Fan and said that all three of those teams came calling but he would not play for them. Basically he was waiting for Sather to make him an offer and that was it.

Yes, and that Plan B gets shot to hell if the ******* you're waiting for to make a decision takes so long that all the good Plan B players have signed elsewhere. If you know you're going to sign with someone else, be direct and sign right away, don't play around. (And there's no way he wasn't set on signing there from the start, he turned down the max contract from us.) Therefore, it is Traitormayer's fault.

Didn't he sign on the first Thursday of free agency? Burke flew out to meet with him in person on that Wednesday. A day to deliberate about a major career move is hardly dragging things out. It's not his fault that the first 48 hours was a leaguewide free agent frenzy (no one really saw that coming), and it's not like he sat around for weeks and weeks.

Even if he'd decided right after meeting with Burke on that Wednesday, it would have been too late for many of those other signings that hit like a whirlwind on Monday and Tuesday. So if you want to blame anyone, blame Burke for not scheduling the meeting right at the start of the free agent period.

Eh, Lou offered Nieds the max. I wouldn't be surprised if Lou also promised to sign his brother once he hit the UFA market. If he didn't want to sign under those conditions there was no chance he was coming back to NJ.

1st of all Lou is smart enough to know when it got to June 30th that Nieds was most likely gone so let's not act like he was shocked that he walked because the writing was certainly on the wall and Lou knew this from his talks w/Nieds camp but was trying to desperately change Scott's mind.

Secondly, who exactly would Lou have been able to ink had he known on July 1st that Nieds was going to bolt?

The defensemen already mentioned, as well as the loads of forwards who were available. He also signed Mogilny once Traitormayer signed with the Ducks, he was a big void in our offense, so there was also the need of replacing the offense he brought. Never said Lou was shocked, but I think Traitormayer was the best option out there (not to mention the replacement C for Stevens), so Lou waited.

Eh, Lou offered Nieds the max. I wouldn't be surprised if Lou also promised to sign his brother once he hit the UFA market. If he didn't want to sign under those conditions there was no chance he was coming back to NJ.

Yeah but how can Lou guarantee that in a cap era. What happens if he makes that promise, and then Gionta goes to arbitration and wins and now Lou has to say sorry Scott I wanted to but oh well. That is such an unrealistic speculation its not even funny.

Yeah but how can Lou guarantee that in a cap era. What happens if he makes that promise, and then Gionta goes to arbitration and wins and now Lou has to say sorry Scott I wanted to but oh well. That is such an unrealistic speculation its not even funny.
Because Rob is a utility player. You're saying the 1.5M we'd give Rob would break the bank?

Because Rob is a utility player. You're saying the 1.5M we'd give Rob would break the bank?

Um you do remember how tight we were against the cap last year and will probably be this year right?

Edit: And I'd also add, utility player my ass, he is doing a better shutdown job than Madden has the past 2 years. That's not a utility player, Rupp is a utility player.

Um you do remember how tight we were against the cap last year and will probably be this year right?

Edit: And I'd also add, utility player my ass, he is doing a better shutdown job than Madden has the past 2 years. That's not a utility player, Rupp is a utility player.
Hey, if we went back in time we wouldn't have been tight up against the cap if we signed Nieds. We flat out wouldn't have had the money to sign Elias and hey, look at that, we just solved our cap issues. You're also forgetting about a certain Selke finalist named Pahlsson on Rob's line.

Not to mention checking lines look a lot better when they have excellent goaltending and one (possibly two) hall of fame defensemen behind them.

I posed this question on another thread. Knowing what we know now, would you have made a Scott Gomez for Rob Niedermayer trade, straight up, after 2003?

Hey, if we went back in time we wouldn't have been tight up against the cap if we signed Nieds. We flat out wouldn't have had the money to sign Elias and hey, look at that, we just solved our cap issues. You're also forgetting about a certain Selke finalist named Pahlsson on Rob's line.

Not to mention checking lines look a lot better when they have excellent goaltending and one (possibly two) hall of fame defensemen behind them.

Again all just speculation, so if we sign Nieds and lose Rafalski are we still not short a dman - and is Elias not still out for a half a season or more so we need Mogilny or somebody to replace the offense until he comes back? You have no idea who or what else we would have signed or for how much, its all just fantasy land. And how does not metioning Pahlsson make Rob any more or less a utility player? Everybody looks better with a better team around them. You could say the same **** about Madden the past few years, and if Rob looks as good as Madden did with the same assets Madden had in his better days, how does that make him worth less? So again your assumed salary for him is just another fantasy. Players and Gms live in reality, nobody is making false promises that they will sign somebody to make a player happy down the road. I can't believe I even have to explain that.

Again all just speculation, so if we sign Nieds and lose Rafalski are we still not short a dman - and is Elias not still out for a half a season or more so we need Mogilny or somebody to replace the offense until he comes back? You have no idea who or what else we would have signed or for how much, its all just fantasy land. And how does not metioning Pahlsson make Rob any more or less a utility player? Everybody looks better with a better team around them. You could say the same **** about Madden the past few years, and if Rob looks as good as Madden did with the same assets Madden had in his better days, how does that make him worth less? So again your assumed salary for him is just another fantasy. Players and Gms live in reality, nobody is making false promises that they will sign somebody to make a player happy down the road. I can't believe I even have to explain that.
Putting Rafalski and Malakhov's salary together it makes an even $7.8M (the max at the time). We would have still signed McGillis and Mogilny (but their contracts never hurt us anyway). We would have probably seen Hale up with the big club for the whole season instead of seeing him sit in Albany for half the season.

The plan if Nieds signed was pretty easy to see.

Edit: As far as my assumed salary for Rob goes. Remember he signed for WAAAAY more than his value in 2005. Everyone saw it as Scott taking less if they signed his brother for more. He only makes around 2M and without Scott back there it is only logical to assume that his play wouldn't look as great. He also gets a hell of a lot more attention with the 'Niedermayer brothers' angle.

Putting Rafalski and Malakhov's salary together it makes an even $7.8M (the max at the time). We would have still signed McGillis and Mogilny (but their contracts never hurt us anyway). We would have probably seen Hale up with the big club for the whole season instead of seeing him sit in Albany for half the season.

The plan if Nieds signed was pretty easy to see.

In never never land yeah...

In never never land yeah...
With Niedermayer signed, it's very clear the direction the team would have gone. Rafalski and Malakhov are gone, and that = Niedermayer. We sign McGillis - our first signing - and he might do ok on a pairing with someone like Niedermayer.

We would have been fine and Elias would have been signed.

In never never land yeah...
Fine, whatever. Lou would have rather kept Brylin around than sign Scott and Rob (when he reached UFA).

**** me for having some sense of imagination for trying to figure out what Lou was planning to do. It's not like he signed Rafalski, Malakhov, and McGillis the day after Nieds signed and you could assume that there was some connection...oh wait, he did.

We would have been fine and Elias would have been signed.
If Elias was signed then Gomez most likely would have been dealt during the offseason for peanuts.

Fine, whatever. Lou would have rather kept Brylin around than sign Scott and Rob (when he reached UFA).

**** me for having some sense of imagination for trying to figure out what Lou was planning to do. It's not like he signed Rafalski, Malakhov, and McGillis the day after Nieds signed and you could assume that there was some connection...oh wait, he did.

But moving that connection to next season and what would have happened is silly. fine to use your imagination but please stop passing it off as that is what happened (regarding Lou telling Nieds Rob would be signed) or would have happened...I mean c'mon look at your next post...

If Elias was signed then Gomez most likely would have been dealt during the offseason for peanuts.

Use your imagination all you want but don't use it as some lame excuse to bash niedermayer because you are sure Lou promised him he'd sign Rob. :shakehead

With Niedermayer signed, it's very clear the direction the team would have gone. Rafalski and Malakhov are gone, and that = Niedermayer. We sign McGillis - our first signing - and he might do ok on a pairing with someone like Niedermayer.

We would have been fine and Elias would have been signed.

That year yes but beyond that when Rob is a free agent, which is how the conversation started, I don't know. What if Scott stayed and the Devils are still tops in the league and now Gomer wants to stay and is willing to take less because we are a top team but it will put us against the cap tight - where does that leave room to sign Rob then? My point was saying that lou made this promise to scott in this day and age is ridiculous.

But moving that connection to next season and what would have happened is silly. fine to use your imagination but please stop passing it off as that is what happened (regarding Lou telling Nieds Rob would be signed) or would have happened...I mean c'mon look at your next post...



Use your imagination all you want but don't use it as some lame excuse to bash niedermayer because you are sure Lou promised him he'd sign Rob. :shakehead
It's not like Lou didn't value Rob hadn't tried to acquire him in the past. If Lou DIDN'T make an offer like that when Scott made it quite apparent that he wanted to play with his brother I would be quite disappointed.

Look at my next post? What the ****? It's the truth. Oh yeah we would have allowed Gomez to go to arbitration with Scott at 7.8M, Elias at 6M, and Brodeur at 5.2M...or is sinking 24M into four players in a 44M cap year a good idea?

It would have been Elias or Gomez, we can't have everything.

My point was saying that lou made this promise to scott in this day and age is ridiculous.
Scott is a first ballot hall of fame defenseman still in his prime. To think that Lou didn't try everything in his power to retain him is what's ridiculous.

Like I said, it's not like Rob is Iginla or some player that would come with a cap crippling salary. Hell if he's so much better than Madden Lou would trade Madden. :shakehead

It's not like Lou didn't value Rob hadn't tried to acquire him in the past. If Lou DIDN'T make an offer like that when Scott made it quite apparent that he wanted to play with his brother I would be quite disappointed.

Look at my next post? What the ****? It's the truth. Oh yeah we would have allowed Gomez to go to arbitration with Scott at 7.8M, Elias at 6M, and Brodeur at 5.2M...or is sinking 24M into four players in a 44M cap year a good idea?

It would have been Elias or Gomez, we can't have everything.

And I would be disappointed in Lou for making such an unrealistic promise that he might not have been able to keep. If he makes it and can't keep it and Nieder then wants out, what then? And if he is your captain, do you keep elias over Gomer then since you have your captain already? Once you play the what if game it opens up a whole can of worms and you have no idea how things would have turned out, despite what your imagination comes up with.

Scott is a first ballot hall of fame defenseman still in his prime. To think that Lou didn't try everything in his power to retain him is what's ridiculous.

Like I said, it's not like Rob is Iginla or some player that would come with a cap crippling salary. Hell if he's so much better than Madden Lou would trade Madden. :shakehead

No to sit here on your high horse on a message board and pretend you know exactly what Niedermayer was thinking and what Lou would do is ridiculous. :shakehead

See, you asked a question and now you're angry.

Besides, Lyle Odelein already played here and fit in well, not to mention he's an improvement over Malakhov & McGillis. Actually everyone I mentioned is an improvement over those 2.

$5 million for Gonchar for 5 years is cheap by the way.

And how the heck do you know that Leetch wouldn't play here?

Right.....I knew you would come up with a boatload of excuses about each player I mentioned. :biglaugh:

Odelein is fricking horrible. If they had signed Odelein, I would have taken a running header into a wall.

Nice guy, great teammate, okay to put out on the ice if they're allowing an obstruction rampage, can drop the gloves... but to think that signing him in the summer of 2005 would be a good idea...

Yes, and that Plan B gets shot to hell if the ******* you're waiting for to make a decision takes so long that all the good Plan B players have signed elsewhere. If you know you're going to sign with someone else, be direct and sign right away, don't play around. (And there's no way he wasn't set on signing there from the start, he turned down the max contract from us.) Therefore, it is Traitormayer's fault.

How does he know who he's going to sign with before hand? HE CAN'T GET A DAMN CONTRACT OFFER UNTIL UFA OPENS, except from the rights owner! And he's the most desired player on the market and everyone is going to offer something. If the Devils offered him a max-out, you don't think someone else did? The guy probably had 20 offers to go through, and you figure the Devils offered him the maxout before the FA period opened. So, if he doesn't take it, you gotta look in another direction.

I don't think it's the same as Elias, where it looks like he only got three considerable
offers, the one from us, the one from the Rangers, and a lesser one from Montreal.

How does he know who he's going to sign with before hand? HE CAN'T GET A DAMN CONTRACT OFFER UNTIL UFA OPENS, except from the rights owner! And he's the most desired player on the market and everyone is going to offer something. If the Devils offered him a max-out, you don't think someone else did? The guy probably had 20 offers to go through, and you figure the Devils offered him the maxout before the FA period opened. So, if he doesn't take it, you gotta look in another direction.

I don't think it's the same as Elias, where it looks like he only got three considerable
offers, the one from us, the one from the Rangers, and a lesser one from Montreal.


From what I remember, there was talk about him wanting to go play with his brother before the UFA period began.

...ZOMG HOW DOES HE KNOW IF THEYLL OFFER HIM A CONTRCT!!!

Oh, I don't know, maybe through a little reasoning and/or talking with his brother. He can see the teams that would potentially offer him a contract through looking at their salary situations. He sees that Ducklings have the cap space to put together a respectable offer....Scott and Rob have some conversations about wanting to play together. Rob could talk with Burke about his brother potentially wanting to come over, and Robs desire to play with his brother. Burke already has plans to try and sign Scott, since he obviously planned this...forseen by him demanding Gomez in return for Rob.

And to your other "point" of maybe another team offering him a max contract...that basically strengthens my thinking that he knew where he wanted to go from the start. He rejects the max from another team, not only from us, to sign for less in Anaheim. This would further show that it wasn't about getting out of NJ, it was about helping baby brother win a cup.

I can understand standing by your argument, but try to look at things from the other side as well. None of what I said is set in stone "This is what happened.", but is all entirely logical and possible.

Odelein is fricking horrible. If they had signed Odelein, I would have taken a running header into a wall.

Nice guy, great teammate, okay to put out on the ice if they're allowing an obstruction rampage, can drop the gloves... but to think that signing him in the summer of 2005 would be a good idea...

Fricking horrible, but good enough to be a 5th defenseman on like 25 out of the 30 teams. Can't say that about McGillis or an over the hill Malakhov.

I actually wish we would have signed Odelein instead of McGillis & Malakhov. He probably would still be playing and we wouldn't have to play Jim Fahey or Alex Brooks. And like you said, he's tough: A trait that this this team has been lacking the last several seasons.

From what I remember, there was talk about him wanting to go play with his brother before the UFA period began.

...ZOMG HOW DOES HE KNOW IF THEYLL OFFER HIM A CONTRCT!!!

Oh, I don't know, maybe through a little reasoning and/or talking with his brother. He can see the teams that would potentially offer him a contract through looking at their salary situations. He sees that Ducklings have the cap space to put together a respectable offer....Scott and Rob have some conversations about wanting to play together. Rob could talk with Burke about his brother potentially wanting to come over, and Robs desire to play with his brother. Burke already has plans to try and sign Scott, since he obviously planned this...forseen by him demanding Gomez in return for Rob.

And to your other "point" of maybe another team offering him a max contract...that basically strengthens my thinking that he knew where he wanted to go from the start. He rejects the max from another team, not only from us, to sign for less in Anaheim. This would further show that it wasn't about getting out of NJ, it was about helping baby brother win a cup.

I can understand standing by your argument, but try to look at things from the other side as well. None of what I said is set in stone "This is what happened.", but is all entirely logical and possible.

IIRC, the Ducks were somewhat out of left field. And if Rob is playing the middle between the GM and the player while he's still Devils' property, isn't that tampering?
Lou and Burke are still friendly.

I posed this question on another thread. Knowing what we know now, would you have made a Scott Gomez for Rob Niedermayer trade, straight up, after 2003?

Apparently no one else answered your question directly... but I will.

YES.

You would be crazy not to.

Nieds > Gomez.

Apparently no one else answered your question directly... but I will.

YES.

You would be crazy not to.

Nieds > Gomez.
That's my response too.

We lost Niedermayer and Stevens and we replaced them with #4/#5 d-men and we still managed to finish in the top 8 of our conference regardless of the fact that we lost 2 HOF'ers.

It just seems that even if we lose our top guys, we'll always have a competitive team to showcase. Niedermayer can stay in Anaheim for all I care, Lou (and David)will find some one in a draft, free agency (not likely) or via trades but you can bet that he'll be moving once july 1st comes around if we lose Gomez.

Our backbone is our defense even if our best players are Elias, Parise, Gionta and some guy named Brodeur. We desperatly need a solid d-men to help Rafalski because he can't play another full season averaging 30 minutes per game for 82 games and still have some gas left in his tank for the playoff run.

P.S. Schneider would fill that role to perfection I.M.O. ;)

How many times did we get passed the 2nd round? We could win all the Atlantic title in the world, doesn't mean crap unless you win it all.

How many times did we get passed the 2nd round? We could win all the Atlantic title in the world, doesn't mean crap unless you win it all.

Like I said before, you've been spoiled and you expect to win the Stanley cup every year. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see N.J. win it for the next 300 years but you also got to be realistic. When was the last time you saw a team win back to back to back SC's IN THE NEW ERA OF HOCKEY ??? (the new era of hockey is when goalies stop wearing those brown pads F.Y.O. ;) )

I don't know if you ever played organised sports and if you did, you problably know how hard it is to win it all. So why would it be different for the pros ??? We have a good team, that has been a power house over the last 12 years or so (like Detroit) and hasn't been lower then 2nd in our division since god knows when... so stop with the *****ing and just chill for a second.

I would understand if you were a Leafs fan because they haven't won squat for the past 50 years or so... but c'mon, there are only 7 teams that won the Stanley cup since our first one (94-95) 12 years ago (and that's including this years winner). We've won 3 times in the last 12 years, wich gives us a chance to win the big prize once every four year !!!! That's pretty good odds if you ask me... NO ???

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT OMEN !!!!!! :rant:

If I recall correctly, the Ducks were somewhat out of left field. And if Rob is playing the middle between the GM and the player while he's still Devils' property, isn't that tampering?
Lou and Burke are still friendly.

Well maybe someone else could comment on what the rumors were about Scott at the time. I doubt that would be considered tampering. Isn't that what has been goin on between Biron and Briere lately?

Fricking horrible, but good enough to be a 5th defenseman on like 25 out of the 30 teams.
Odelein washed out with the Pittsburgh Penguins in 27 games in 05-06. Say what you will about Malakhov and McGillis but they played more than Odelein in 05-06. (Sure McGillis played the same number of games, but he would have played more on the defense starved Penguins)


If I recall correctly, the Ducks were somewhat out of left field. And if Rob is playing the middle between the GM and the player while he's still Devils' property, isn't that tampering?
Lou and Burke are still friendly.
You recall incorrectly. The three major players were NJ, Van, and the Ducks. There was a lot of talk about Scott wanting to play with his brother. (Let's not all forget that Lou offered Scott a 5 year 45M contract BEFORE he went to arbitration and won a 7M deal before the lockout)

And it's awful hard to prove that Burke tampered because who's going to talk? Burke, Scott, or Rob? And even if they did who's to say that Rob did it on Burke's command instead of it being a brother to brother conversation.

That's my response too.

LOL. I would have went to the future, see if he signs with the Ducks, if so, I'd go back in time, made the trade, and gone back into the future to sue the Ducks for extorting me out of a player and the NHL for allowing it to happen.

Barring that, no, you can't make the trade. You can't trade Gomez for Rob Nieds in 2003 unless you are getting something significant with him. You know, if you made that trade, maybe you don't even win the Cup. Yes, I know Gomez didn't do a ton, but...

Well maybe someone else could comment on what the rumors were about Scott at the time. I doubt that would be considered tampering. Isn't that what has been goin on between Biron and Briere lately?

Clarity is not my strong suit.

What I meant was that if Burke was pushing Rob Nieds to promote the Ducks to Scott Nieds and recruit him before he was no longer Devils property. I'd consider that tampering. Lou probably would too, at least say something. He is friendly with Burke. Burke puts over Lou at every opportunity. There are no problems between the two.

So, what I meant was that it was unlikely Burke made an illegal hard sell.

I don't recall that but I wouldn't have been surprised if he did say that.

But if Leetch was 10 years younger than he was and Lou gave him the right offer for the right amount of time & money, I'm sure he would have changed his mind. Happens all the time in sports.

Besides, if the Devils, Isles or Flyers came calling just this past season, he would have signed rather than sit out the season like he did waiting for his phone to ring with an offer.

Wow, talk about not reading the papers or having a clue what is going on in regards to Leetch.

You ask me how I knew he wouldn't play for you guys and one of your fellow posters had to point out that it came directly from Leetch's mouth.

Then to say he would've signed this season with you guys if offered a deal rather than sit out is also hysterical as he not only was pursued by the Rangers after Renney was calling him all year with an offer to rejoin the team but also the Devs also contaced him but were told he would play for the NYR 's or nobody so once again way off base.:sarcasm:

Fricking horrible, but good enough to be a 5th defenseman on like 25 out of the 30 teams. Can't say that about McGillis or an over the hill Malakhov.

I actually wish we would have signed Odelein instead of McGillis & Malakhov. He probably would still be playing and we wouldn't have to play Jim Fahey or Alex Brooks. And like you said, he's tough: A trait that this this team has been lacking the last several seasons.

Odelein is horrible but can start as a #5 on on 25 out of 30 teams???:biglaugh:

How many games has he played since the lockout?:sarcasm:

Besides, if the Devils, Isles or Flyers came calling just this past season, he would have signed rather than sit out the season like he did waiting for his phone to ring with an offer.

The Flyers definitely talked to Leetch's agent about signing him for this past season, and Leetch passed.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20070606_Niedermayers_are_united_in_goal.html


Enter Brian Burke, who took over the GM duties for the Ducks in June 2005 before free agency began. The first order of business was to get Rob under contract, which Burke did in August, signing the younger brother to a four-year contract.

"When I first met with him, [Rob] said it was his intention at that time to take his qualifying offer and become unrestricted the following summer and maybe go somewhere else," Burke said. "So our first job was to convince Robbie to stay, regardless of what Scott Niedermayer decided."

Enter Scott, by then an unrestricted free agent.

He met with Burke at an undisclosed location, "and I said, 'What's your list?' " Burke recalled. " 'Give me your list.' And he said, 'I want to play in the West. I want to play on a team that has a chance to win. I want some privacy away from the rink. I want to play with my brother.' "

Burke paused and looked Scott squarely in the eyes.

"There's only one GM that can check off everything on your list," Burke told him. "You're sitting with him. Let's get this done."

Odelein washed out with the Pittsburgh Penguins in 27 games in 05-06. Say what you will about Malakhov and McGillis but they played more than Odelein in 05-06. (Sure McGillis played the same number of games, but he would have played more on the defense starved Penguins)


The reason why Odelein played less games was because he was injured and needed knee surgery that ended his season, unlike McGillis & Malakhov who were demoted due to their ineffectiveness.

The reason why Odelein played less games was because he was injured and needed knee surgery that ended his season, unlike McGillis & Malakhov who were demoted due to their ineffectiveness.

Can the Odelein love stop, please? seriously. I know it's early June and there's not much to talk about, but the Odelein stuff is just absurd. Lyle Odelein was not NJ's big free agent signing that got away in 2005.

Since he left the Devils in 99, he's played on terrible defensive teams:

Columbus 2000 - 2001: 233 GA (18th)

Columbus 2001 - 2002: 255 GA (28th)
[traded to Chicago, played 12 games]

Chicago 2002 - 2003: 226 GA (17th)
[traded to Dallas, played 3 games]

Florida 2003 - 2004: 221 GA (T - 22nd)

Odelein was 37 when the 2005 season started. Lyle is a non-story.

Can the Odelein love stop, please? seriously. I know it's early June and there's not much to talk about, but the Odelein stuff is just absurd. Lyle Odelein was not NJ's big free agent signing that got away in 2005.

Since he left the Devils in 99, he's played on terrible defensive teams:

Columbus 2000 - 2001: 233 GA (18th)

Columbus 2001 - 2002: 255 GA (28th)
[traded to Chicago, played 12 games]

Chicago 2002 - 2003: 226 GA (17th)
[traded to Dallas, played 3 games]

Florida 2003 - 2004: 221 GA (T - 22nd)

Odelein was 37 when the 2005 season started. Lyle is a non-story.

um, nobody has even suggested that he was a "big free agent signing that got away."

Pay attention to the thread and you'll figure out why his name was brought up in the first place.

Well maybe someone else could comment on what the rumors were about Scott at the time. I doubt that would be considered tampering. Isn't that what has been goin on between Biron and Briere lately?

I think it would only be considered tampering IF management from another team attempts to contact a player while he's under contract. But because it's player to player, there's really nothing a player can do in terms of negotiating terms, length, etc.....

I'm sure it goes on every year that players who get dealt from old teams to new teams call their friends who are about to become free agents and tell them how wonderful said place is and they'd be a great fit, etc......I think that's more or less what is going on with Briere and Biron. Besides, I don't think Briere leaves Buffalo. I think the player the Flyers target will be Gomez. Not to start a war, but Gomez is the perfect fit for what the Flyers need.

I think it would only be considered tampering IF management from another team attempts to contact a player while he's under contract. But because it's player to player, there's really nothing a player can do in terms of negotiating terms, length, etc.....

I'm sure it goes on every year that players who get dealt from old teams to new teams call their friends who are about to become free agents and tell them how wonderful said place is and they'd be a great fit, etc......I think that's more or less what is going on with Briere and Biron. Besides, I don't think Briere leaves Buffalo. I think the player the Flyers target will be Gomez. Not to start a war, but Gomez is the perfect fit for what the Flyers need.

I don't think he'd sign with Philly but I could be wrong. And I would think Philly would prefer Briere over Gomez ten times out of ten, IF Briere is willing to leave, which is debateable. Briere is the better overall player.

Sergei Gonchar, Lyle Odelein, Brian Leetch, Teppo Numminen, Alexi Zhitnick, Adam Foote, Brian Berard, Adrian Aucoin, among others.

You asked.

P.S. Here's a list of signings from the summer of 2005:
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/05_free_agents_2.htm

apparently, you were suggesting Odelein as a replacement for Niedermayer. or maybe i'm still not paying attention?

I can't believe we are still talking about Neids. It over, done, caput, finnito, hasta la vista baby. Lets move on and focus on getting our D back to Devil glory. neids is gone.

apparently, you were suggesting Odelein as a replacement for Niedermayer. or maybe i'm still not paying attention?

:shakehead Actually, no. I was suggesting that Odelein would have been better than McGillis & Malakhov.

:shakehead Actually, no. I was suggesting that Odelein would have been better than McGillis & Malakhov.

Yeah, and the point is that you're saying had Nieds not held you guys up you would've had the chance to sign Odelein:biglaugh: but because Scott dragged his feet Lyle was allowed to slip away.

Yeah, and the point is that you're saying had Nieds not held you guys up you would've had the chance to sign Odelein:biglaugh: but because Scott dragged his feet Lyle was allowed to slip away.

Actually, yes if you put it that way. A player like Lyle Odelein certainly would have been better than McGillis or Malakhov. :sarcasm: