Paul Martin

Thinking ahead a little here with the trade dealine coming up.

He currently makes 2mill now and is a RFA this summer. I think to retain him, he needs a qualifying offer of at least a 10% raise, and may even be eligible for arbitration. If Lou feels he could resign Gomez and Rafalski this summer, Matvichuk waiting to play, as well as give proper raises to and retain RFAs such as Parise, Oduya, and Hale, do you think Martin could be shipped out within the next two weeks?

Don't get me wrong, in a no cap world I would love to keep him. However he hasn't made as big a step in terms of development that most fans seemed to have thought he would, at least offensively.

If so, what do you think he would fetch? 1st round pick?

Lou has yet had to trade any of his core players, be surprised if Martin is the first one, he's very important to the future of this franchise.

Martin won't be traded.

Lou has yet had to trade any of his core players, be surprised if Martin is the first one, he's very important to the future of this franchise.

Right now, on this team, not sure if he is a core player, in fact I would put him more like 10-11:
Brodeur
Elias
Gionta
Rafalski
White
Gomez
Langenbrunner
Zajac
Parise
Madden
Pando
Brylin

He has in the past traded young core guys too for the right return (Rolston, Guerin, Souray, Morrison, etc...)

Just trying to think a little outside the box here.

I can't see Martin being traded the way he's improved his play lately.. He's been jumping up in the action a lot more and IMO playing better defense then he was earlier in the season

Right now, on this team, not sure if he is a core player, in fact I would put him more like 10-11:
Brodeur
Elias
Gionta
Rafalski
White
Gomez
Langenbrunner
Zajac
Parise
Madden
Pando
Brylin

He has in the past traded young core guys too for the right return (Rolston, Guerin, Souray, Morrison, etc...)

Just trying to think a little outside the box here.

He plays almost 30 minutes a game, who will replace that? The guy has been a workhorse for us the way Neidermeyer was when he was a Devil. He is very much one of our core players and his play of late has shown that to be the case.

Lou has traded young players in the past only because they became expendable, something Martin is not right now for us.

Brodeur
Elias
Gionta
Rafalski
White
Gomez
Langenbrunner
Zajac
Parise
Madden
Pando
Brylin


Not sure if you ordered your list by importance to the team, but it would appear so. I would put White, whom I never liked, much lower (after Pando). I think Madden should be put in White's spot. Parise is probably a notch higher than Zajac. Martin probably falls between Gomez and Langenbrunner IMO.

Just my 2 cents (CDN) worth, so about 2.50 cents (USD). ;-)

There is absolutely no chance of Martin being traded for a draft pick or non-roster players before the deadline. We want to win a Cup, remember?

I could see him possibly being traded over the summer for cap reasons, if it means enough money to sign everyone else.

Right now, on this team, not sure if he is a core player, in fact I would put him more like 10-11:
Brodeur
Elias
Gionta
Rafalski
White
Gomez
Langenbrunner
Zajac
Parise
Madden
Pando
Brylin

He has in the past traded young core guys too for the right return (Rolston, Guerin, Souray, Morrison, etc...)

Just trying to think a little outside the box here.I don't think that I would include Souray, Morrison, or Rolston as core guys.

Guerin and Morrison were troublemakers, so they got traded just like Kirk Muller and Pat Verbeek had in previous seasons by Lou Lamoriello. Morrison had only had a 46 Point season and was on pace for 48 Points when he was dealt.

Brian Rolston was traded for Claude Lemieux, so that was a positive pickup for the Devils in terms of gaining a proven playoff warrior.

Sheldon Souray was flawed in his own zone. He also didn't blossom offensively until 2003-04 at age 26. That wasn't doing the 2000 Devils much go heading into the playoffs, so Lou Lamoriello packaged Souray to Montreal for the infamous Vladimir Malakhov, who did play well and help the Devils to the Stanley Cup Championship.

The only minor complaint about your "Devils Core Chart" is Zajac being higher than Parise and Madden. Zajac is having a good rookie year, but Parise is tied for second on the team in scoring and Madden has proven his great value to the team since his rookie season of 1999-00. Many experts wrote the Devils off after Bobby Holik crossed the river, but Madden made great contributions to the team winning the Stanley Cup.

As for Paul Martin, he leads the team in ATOI by a few second over Rafalski, so I would probably put his importance higher up the list. His play since January 1 is much more impressive, and I would say he is now having a pretty good season overall.

Not sure if i'm right here but didn't Souray want out because he thought NJ's style was holding him back?

1 - I'm not saying "Give him away"
2 - My Core list is not necessarily in order
3- I think teams will overpay for a Dman like Martin, who is not a rental.

Something I would consider, offer Martin to Edmonton for Stoll (2.2/year through next year) who right now makes a similar salary. Send Zajac (2 way contract I believe) to the minors until maybe the last game, this could/maybe free up enough room to activate Matvichuk to replace Martins minutes, then Zajac could be recalled for the playoffs. This also hedges our offensive liability if we can't sign Gomez (I put that at about 35% right now). I think Rafi can be resigned, and would give us a couple mill to go after another UFA in Dman in the offseason.

This is a scenario that may work out better in the offseason though once a little bit of smoke clears after the UFA period. This is also goes against Lou's thought of ahving 2-3 extra defenseman come playoff time.

What do you think Martins fair value, contract wise is?

I would be open to trading Martin for a defenceman who skates faster than him, and makes a better first pass than him. Of course, that begs the question as to why the other GM would trade for him in the first place.

Martin+ to LA for "the Vish" would be a deal i'd consider. Lombardi seems obsessed with icing a young team for next season.

1 - I'm not saying "Give him away"
2 - My Core list is not necessarily in order
3- I think teams will overpay for a Dman like Martin, who is not a rental.

But saying "trade him for a 1st round pick" is basically the same as saying give up on the season by trading away a 26 minute defenseman. Also, he doesn't have to be qualified at 10% more than his current salary since his 2 million dollar salary is above the average league salary.

Something I would consider, offer Martin to Edmonton for Stoll (2.2/year through next year) who right now makes a similar salary. Send Zajac (2 way contract I believe) to the minors until maybe the last game, this could/maybe free up enough room to activate Matvichuk to replace Martins minutes, then Zajac could be recalled for the playoffs. This also hedges our offensive liability if we can't sign Gomez (I put that at about 35% right now). I think Rafi can be resigned, and would give us a couple mill to go after another UFA in Dman in the offseason.

Why would we demote Zajac. How does that make any sense at all? Going after UFA defenseman hasn't exactly worked for the team in the past few years.

This is a scenario that may work out better in the offseason though once a little bit of smoke clears after the UFA period. This is also goes against Lou's thought of ahving 2-3 extra defenseman come playoff time.

Who cares about the offseason... we're in 2nd place and have a legitimate shot at the stanley cup. Worry about the offseason in June.[/QUOTE]

I would be open to trading Martin for a defenceman who skates faster than him, and makes a better first pass than him. Of course, that begs the question as to why the other GM would trade for him in the first place.

Martin+ to LA for "the Vish" would be a deal i'd consider. Lombardi seems obsessed with icing a young team for next season.

Visnovsky makes less than Martin. I would think the center piece of the deal would have to be more than Martin.

Come on now. Paul Martin is just now coming into his zone and plays a ton of minutes (including both special teams). Why on earth would Lou trade him for an asset (such as a 1st round pick) that is a complete crap shoot? Even if Martin doesn't improve a lick, he's still a lock as a top four defenseman for the next decade. You don't trade those kind of players.

Is this a joke?

1 - The Devils will not trade Paul Martin (their minutes leader on defense)

2 - If the Devils somehow do, they will not deal him off for a pick and hurt the team in the process. He would be packaged for a better defenseman.

Sigh.

Give Martin a few more years and he is going to be a better d-man than rafalski is.

Not sure if you ordered your list by importance to the team, but it would appear so. I would put White, whom I never liked, much lower (after Pando). I think Madden should be put in White's spot. Parise is probably a notch higher than Zajac. Martin probably falls between Gomez and Langenbrunner IMO.

Just my 2 cents (CDN) worth, so about 2.50 cents (USD). ;-)

I call your .02 Canadian...
Finally someone one the same page as me about White.

I think he has stepped up his offensive game a lot lately:dunno:

Maybe tomorrow against MTL he can rush it up and then dish it off to Rupp at the last second again! :yo:

I really like the idea of acquiring a PP specialist like Visnovsky or maybe even John-Michael Liles for Martin and a prospect (Tallackson). We have all the skilled players on offense but we REALLY need help on the point. Oduya never hits the net, White doesn't belong there and Martin isn't anything spectacular.

Elias - Gomez - Gionta
Langenbrunner - Rafalski

Parise - Zajac - Brylin
Visnovsky/Liles - Oduya

I wouldn't want to trade Martin at all. He has a lot of potential for us. He is better than Liles defensively and even though Liles makes less, I'd still take Martin. Liles has more freedom with the puck in Colorado and gets #1 PP time.

Martin is also one of the smartest players on perhaps the smartest team in the league, he's everything we want in a Devil, sure he has struggled, but he finally looks like his old self or what we saw in his rookie year.

Not sure if White has a no trade claus, but I would move him before Martin.

And my take is if Matvichuck can fit in our cap and play well, I'd bring up Greene and sit Lukowich. I believe that would make us a better team. And before I get killed over Brad, yes he's played well all season. However, lately he's made some real blunders defensively and is starting to look like the player from last season.

Rafalski/White
Martin/Matvichuck
Greene/Hale
Lukowich

Not sure if White has a no trade claus, but I would move him before Martin.

And my take is if Matvichuck can fit in our cap and play well, I'd bring up Greene and sit Lukowich. I believe that would make us a better team. And before I get killed over Brad, yes he's played well all season. However, lately he's made some real blunders defensively and is starting to look like the player from last season.

Rafalski/White
Martin/Matvichuck
Greene/Hale
Lukowich

Ok, maybe that's a fair argument against Luko since his recent play hasn't been that great (it actually hasn't been *bad*). But in no way can you justify playing Hale over him, especially come playoff time.

Come on now. Paul Martin is just now coming into his zone and plays a ton of minutes (including both special teams). Why on earth would Lou trade him for an asset (such as a 1st round pick) that is a complete crap shoot? Even if Martin doesn't improve a lick, he's still a lock as a top four defenseman for the next decade. You don't trade those kind of players.

If anybody remembers his performance in the 2004 World Cup, they should be very hesitate to even consider about trading him away.

Ok, maybe that's a fair argument against Luko since his recent play hasn't been that great (it actually hasn't been *bad*). But in no way can you justify playing Hale over him, especially come playoff time.

I still believe that Hale flattens Staal in game two.

I still believe that Hale flattens Staal in game two.

Hale isn't on the ice in the last minute of a 1 goal game.

Hale isn't on the ice in the last minute of a 1 goal game.

Maybe he should have been.

Maybe he should have been.

We're talking about the same David Hale here right?

Maybe he should have been.

O come on. Hale can barely handle fourth liners and you want him out against Stall in the last minute of a one goal game?

Hale isn't on the ice in the last minute of a 1 goal game.

...on the same token, what the hell was Lukowich doing out there?

...on the same token, what the hell was Lukowich doing out there?

haha.

"In Lou we trust" :sarcasm: :D

...on the same token, what the hell was Lukowich doing out there?Colin White was out, and Richard Matvichuk was playing with slipped disk in his back and a numb foot.

...on the same token, what the hell was Lukowich doing out there?

Letting Staal score the game winning goal. Lukowich should have wallopped him!

Letting Staal score the game winning goal. Lukowich should have wallopped him!

Staal didn't score the winning goal. He tied it up with a few seconds left (after the Devils took the lead with under a minute left) and Wallin scored in overtime to give the Canes the win.

Anyway, on Martin I don't know why anybody would want to trade him now, unless the return is as good or better than he is. Like others have said, he's a very smart hockey player, he logs a lot of minutes, he's a very good skater, and to me is still underated. Part of Martin's lack of offensive production (although he's picked it up lately) has to do with the system too. The Devils have a total of 9 goals from their defensemen this year, so it's not like the rest of the defense is scoring a lot either. I have noticed that Rafalski, Martin, and Oduya have started to join the rush a bit more lately, so I think they've finally become comfortable with what Julien is trying to do.

Visnovsky makes less than Martin. I would think the center piece of the deal would have to be more than Martin.

I don't think so. Martin packaged with some prospects or 2nd/3rd round picks should land him. The question is more about Visnovsky's willingness to stay in Jersey once his contract is up.

I don't think so. Martin packaged with some prospects or 2nd/3rd round picks should land him. The question is more about Visnovsky's willingness to stay in Jersey once his contract is up.

I'd much rather have Martin than Visnovsky actually. Yeah Visnovsky is good offensively, but Martin's offensive potential isn't all that much lower than Visnovsky's, and I think he's better defensively than Visnovsky is. Martin is a very good fit with the Devils sytem IMO. Not to mention Martin is still pretty young for a defenseman, and has plenty of good years in front of him.

I'd much rather have Martin than Visnovsky actually. Yeah Visnovsky is good offensively, but Martin's offensive potential isn't all that much lower than Visnovsky's, and I think he's better defensively than Visnovsky is. Martin is a very good fit with the Devils sytem IMO. Not to mention Martin is still pretty young for a defenseman, and has plenty of good years in front of him.

Ok, maybe Martin is better defensively, but there is no way they are close to each other offensively.

Besides, I'm not saying I don't want Martin on the team, or that he's not any good. I just think the only thing this team really needs (if anything) come playoff time is either an offensive D man or a D man with a cannon of a shot.

Considering most good shooting defencemen in the West are headed to the playoffs, Visnovsky was the most logical choice based on the youth movement going on in LA.