do you think Brodeur will win 50 this year?

aside from leading or being near the top of every goalie category this year, it's certainly possible that brodeur can finish the season with 50 wins. 50 wins would definitely make sure lil sidney goes home crying to mario when the hart trophy is awarded.

games played - 55
games left - 27

number of wins thus far - 34
magic number to 50 - 16

let's hypothetically say marty wins 50% of the remaining games, that would put him at 13.5 wins! do you guys think marty's gonna make it to 50?

maybe not 50, but hes definitely on pace to break the record for most wins ever in a season, which is 47 by Bernie Parent. here are the top winningest seasons for goalies:

Bernie Parent 47 1973-1974
Bernie Parent 44 1974-1975
Terry Sawchuk 44 1950-1951
Terry Sawchuk 44 1951-1952
Tom Barrasso 43 1992-1993
Ed Belfour 43 1990-1991
Marty Brodeur 43 1997-1998
Marty Brodeur 43 1999-2000
Marty Brodeur 43 2005-2006

This will be a tainted record IMO anyway. The SO awards a lot more wins so goalies end up with higher win totals

I hope he can just break the record with 48 wins, but 50's got such a nice ring to it. You never hear that number associated with goalies that often.

This will be a tainted record IMO anyway. The SO awards a lot more wins so goalies end up with higher win totals
Then those wins are even more deserving for Marty. Plus, it's not like he could have done anything about it.

Then those wins are even more deserving for Marty. Plus, it's not like he could have done anything about it.

I know, but there still is a big difference winning 47 games the way Parent won it, and 47 the way Brodeur will likely win it. I'm not sure the exact number of games Marty has won in a SO but you don't think it helps his totals?

even marty said that the wins record is tainted. which means that IF he breaks roy all time wins record, it isnt untouchable and can easily be beaten by a young star under the new rules.

if you go over to tsn.ca and check out brodeur's stats page, it says he's on pace for 51 wins and 15 shutouts this year.

my prediction is he will have a total of 49 wins and get 2 more shutouts.

tsn has him as the #1 ranked player in the nhl.

The record is not tainted. If there was no shootouts and just ties like a few years ago then who knows if the Devils would have had a different mindset in overtime to score a goal. Because there are shootouts the Devils play more defensive minded in overtime than most teams because they know they can win the game in a shootout.
Think about it.

marty himself said that the record is essentially tainted. i take that from a good authority.

I know, but there still is a big difference winning 47 games the way Parent won it, and 47 the way Brodeur will likely win it. I'm not sure the exact number of games Marty has won in a SO but you don't think it helps his totals?

OT and the shootout certainly is a big factor.

Brodeur is obviously having a great year, probably his best ever but he wouldn't break the record without a change in the rules.

Parent finished th eseason with 12 ties, on that Flyers team, with OT and shootouts add at least 6 wins to his total, and probably 7 or 8.


Brodeur currently sits at 34 - 14 - 5

Under the rules of the mid-70's he'd be sitting at 25 - 14 - 14


None of this is meant to take away at the play of Brodeur .. IMO he's currently one of the two favorites for the Hart.

Tha game has changed (not always for the best) and in some cases it does skew statistics.

The record is not tainted. If there was no shootouts and just ties like a few years ago then who knows if the Devils would have had a different mindset in overtime to score a goal. Because there are shootouts the Devils play more defensive minded in overtime than most teams because they know they can win the game in a shootout.
Think about it.

There was no OT when Parent set the record. 60 minutes and the game ended.

There was no OT when Parent set the record. 60 minutes and the game ended.

I agree with your points, however when you know the game is over in 60, there is a certain psychological push to finish on top and get the 2 points. When you know you can do it in OT/SO, you save some in the tank for later.

As evidence I offer the NHL leading 5 goals the Devils scored in the final minute to tie the game. When you have your back against the wall the level of desperation rises.

That's what makes it so hard to compare statistics from different eras. It is not an apples to apples comparison.

Hello, Pens fan here.


So... Does Marty Brodeur not know or just not care that this is the "new" NHL? 10 shutouts already, are you kidding me? Anyone know the season record for shutouts?

I believe it's Tony Esposito with 15.

Edit: Confirmed in 1970

"Tony O" set the modern record of 15 shutouts in a single season while leading the Chicago Blackhawks to first place in the East Division with a 38-17-8 record and a 2.17 goals-against average."

Edit #2: The all-time record goes to George Hainsworth, with 22 in one season, who Brodeur is chasing right now for 2nd place in all-time shutouts.

"The Canadiens goaltender recorded 22 shutouts, a record that has stood for 72 years. Amazingly, the Canadiens won only 22 of their 44 games that season and Hainsworth allowed only 43 goals. He played in every game and finished with an 0.92 goals-against average. The Canadiens were 22-7-15 during the regular season, winning the five-team Canadian division."

Hello, Pens fan here.


So... Does Marty Brodeur not know or just not care that this is the "new" NHL? 10 shutouts already, are you kidding me? Anyone know the season record for shutouts?

it was george hainsworth. here is what i found on wikipedia.com:

"In 1928-29, he set an all-time record with 22 shutouts (in 44 games played!) and a 0.98 goals against average."

that's unreal! there's no way marty's even gonna get close to that!

Martin Brodeur is on pace for 50.7 wins and 14.9 shutouts.

I know, but there still is a big difference winning 47 games the way Parent won it, and 47 the way Brodeur will likely win it. I'm not sure the exact number of games Marty has won in a SO but you don't think it helps his totals?I agree that Parent's 47 wins in 1973-74 is remarkable. They didn't even have overtimes in the NHL between World War II and the start of the 1983-84 season. Those Flyers teams surely could have bullied their way to a few more wins in OT.

It may be fair to talk about the record as being the "modern wins record" like Tony Esposito has the modern shutout record of 15. George Hainsworth had 22 shutouts in an era when it was really difficult to score goals. People who talk about 1995 through 2004 as being very defensive should go look back at the 1920's.

To conclude the Brodeur-Parent portion of my post, Marty may be having the best season by a goaltender since Bernie's incredible 1973-74 season.

even marty said that the wins record is tainted. which means that IF he breaks roy all time wins record, it isnt untouchable and can easily be beaten by a young star under the new rules.Brodeur is only 71 wins behind Patrick Roy. Marty may end up with 650+ wins if he stays healthy and his skills don't decline exponentially in his late 30's.

IF Brodeur breaks the record by 100 or more wins, it will be very difficult to exclipse that mark, even with the chance for a goalie to win an average of five additional games due to the shootout each year.

Brodeur, Rick DiPietro and Marty Turco each had 8 wins to lead the NHL in Shootout Wins. Ryan Miller has eight already to lead the NHL. It may be fair to assume that teams that are good in shootouts may have played more conservatively in the 4-on-4 OT to force the shootout. If we allow for this, the extra wins would be reduced slightly, so five is a fair average.

A goalie would have to still catch Patrick Roy without the extra shootout wins factored into a 20-season career if he wants to catch someone with 650 wins.

Lastly, Brodeur averaged 39.4 wins a season between lockout seasons, the shortened 1994-95 campaign and the lost 2004-05.

im just saying in the new nhl is a new brodeur pops up, then his mark will be decimated. consider all of the shootour wins he would have had over his career. with that logic a lesser goalie (but still top tier work horse) could eclipse whatever record is set. the only reason it may be unlikely is the fact that most teams dont have a singular goalie workhorse llike brodeur.

And to answer the original post, Brodeur will definately get the 50 wins this season, barring an injury. I have a feeling he'll get 51 wins and 13 shutouts.

It'd take a special kind of netminder to play 60+ games for 15+ seasons (and win the majority, thus approaching Roy's record).

aside from leading or being near the top of every goalie category this year, it's certainly possible that brodeur can finish the season with 50 wins. 50 wins would definitely make sure lil sidney goes home crying to mario when the hart trophy is awarded.

games played - 55
games left - 27

number of wins thus far - 34
magic number to 50 - 16

let's hypothetically say marty wins 50% of the remaining games, that would put him at 13.5 wins! do you guys think marty's gonna make it to 50?

If it was 55 wins, he still wouldn't win the Hart. Brodeur & the Devils have always been marginalized. If Brodeur was to compile the most wins in a season, most shutouts in a season, the lowest GAA for a season, or the highest save % ever recorded for a season, or even if he was just to get 3 out of these 4 mentioned catergories, he would still lose out to Crosby.

It's a popularity contest.

There should be an * next to the single season wins if he gets it but the all time wins will be legitimate. He lost more wins from a year and a half of strike than he will probably get back in shootouts. Besides, barring an injury he is going to blow Roy's all time wins record out of the water.

im just saying in the new nhl is a new brodeur pops up, then his mark will be decimated. consider all of the shootour wins he would have had over his career. with that logic a lesser goalie (but still top tier work horse) could eclipse whatever record is set. the only reason it may be unlikely is the fact that most teams dont have a singular goalie workhorse llike brodeur.

i'll have to disagree. brodeur's success is a mix of durability, talent and luck.


durability
marty has been able to average over 70 games per season. not many goaltenders can handle that type of work load. also, he's never had a serious injury that sidelined him for very long. what's his longest stretch being out injured? something like 6 games last year right?

talent
not much i can say that you already don't know. marty has talent and a lot of it. the nhl changes the rules because of him and he adjusts and continues to succeed

luck
consider that marty has always been blessed with having been on teams that were good. you could be the best goaltender in the world, but your career stats would never show it if you were stuck on crappy teams. imagine what hasek's career stats would have been had he played on good teams his whole career.

im just saying in the new nhl is a new brodeur pops up, then his mark will be decimated. consider all of the shootour wins he would have had over his career. with that logic a lesser goalie (but still top tier work horse) could eclipse whatever record is set. the only reason it may be unlikely is the fact that most teams dont have a singular goalie workhorse llike brodeur.That's the thing, there aren't too many top-tier goalies who are also workhorses. Patrick Roy recently said that he is amazed at how Marty plays almost every game.

Marty is one win away from extending his record to ten straight years of 35 or more wins, and he is six wins away from increasing his record to six total seasons with 40 or more wins. Those aren't consecutive.

Slightly off topic: Son of a _ _ _ _ _! I was just going to check the updated wins leaders, and I saw that Nicklas Backstrom of Minnesota just qualifies for the lead in save percentage with .931. He is 8-6-3 with only 504 shots attempted. Now Marty is 3rd, slightly behind Chris Mason of Nashville.

There should be an * next to the single season wins if he gets it but the all time wins will be legitimate. He lost more wins from a year and a half of strike than he will probably get back in shootouts. Besides, barring an injury he is going to blow Roy's all time wins record out of the water.Okay Ford C. Frick, we will put one next to his name if he breaks the record.

If it was 55 wins, he still wouldn't win the Hart. Brodeur & the Devils have always been marginalized. If Brodeur was to compile the most wins in a season, most shutouts in a season, the lowest GAA for a season, or the highest save % ever recorded for a season, or even if he was just to get 3 out of these 4 mentioned catergories, he would still lose out to Crosby.

It's a popularity contest.

Goalies (and defenseman) automatically seem to be at a disadvantage when it comes to winning the Hart. It seems to be that there has to be no forward that distinguishes himself for a defender or goalie to win so I'm not sure it has anything to do with being a Devil (Although it probably wouldn't hurt playing in Toronto, NY or Montreal). The other problem is that Crosby is really f***ing good.

Okay Ford C. Frick, we will put one next to his name if he breaks the record.

You're kidding yourself if you think 50 wins w/ 6-8 shootout wins is more impressive than Parent's 47.

According to TSN Marty is on pace for 51 wins :bow:

GP W
53 34 Year to date
79 51 On Pace

This is some defining year for Brodeur. This may be his best season so far even without the all star defense in past years. Some big Milestones will be broken in the next couple years.

Goalies (and defenseman) automatically seem to be at a disadvantage when it comes to winning the Hart. It seems to be that there has to be no forward that distinguishes himself for a defender or goalie to win so I'm not sure it has anything to do with being a Devil (Although it probably wouldn't hurt playing in Toronto, NY or Montreal). The other problem is that Crosby is really f***ing good.

considering that brodeur leads the league in wins, shutouts, goal against average, is right at the top of the heap in save % (and let's be honest, how many more games has brodeur played than mason and backstrom? here's a fun fact, if you add the number of games mason and backstrom have played this year, brodeur has still played one more game than the two of them combined!) and let's not forget that brodeur leads all goaltenders in games played and shots against, not to take anything away from crosby, but brodeur in my opinion has the hart if he remains at this level of play and stays healthy.

also, how many devils games have been decided by one goal this year? brodeur is a HUGE reason why the devils are 2nd in the conference and not fighting for a playoff spot.

You're kidding yourself if you think 50 wins w/ 6-8 shootout wins is more impressive than Parent's 47.I am certainly not suggesting that. But in the same spirit, Parent's 47 wins in an 80-game schedule.

George Hainsworth won 30 games in 1934-35. That was in the era of 48-game schedules. That would be 50 wins if it were projected out to 80 games. Are you going to give Bernie Parent an asterisk because there were more games?

One interesting aside about Hainsworth's 22 shutouts in 1928-29 is he only won 22 games. There were only an average of 2.9 goals scored per hockey game combined by both teams.

considering that brodeur leads the league in wins, shutouts, goal against average, is right at the top of the heap in save % (and let's be honest, how many more games has brodeur played than mason and backstrom? here's a fun fact, if you add the number of games mason and backstrom have played this year, brodeur has still played one more game than the two of them combined!) and let's not forget that brodeur leads all goaltenders in games played and shots against, not to take anything away from crosby, but brodeur in my opinion has the hart if he remains at this level of play and stays healthy.

also, how many devils games have been decided by one goal this year? brodeur is HUGE reason why the devils are second in 2nd in the conference and not fighting for a playoff spot.

You're preaching to the choir. I think Brodeur IS the most valuable player and possibly having on of the best single seasons ever by a goaltender. I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that there is no way he is going to win the Hart this year with Crosby doing what he is doing. Also, from a marketing point of view, the NHL would be stupid not to give it to Crosby (I know the writers vote on it). Actually, on second thought, the way the NHL is run, Brodeur will probably win it.

You're preaching to the choir. I think Brodeur IS the most valuable player and possibly having on of the best single seasons ever by a goaltender. I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that there is no way he is going to win the Hart this year with Crosby doing what he is doing. Also, from a marketing point of view, the NHL would be stupid not to give it to Crosby (I know the writers vote on it). Actually, on second thought, the way the NHL is run, Brodeur will probably win it.

then let's make sure crosby doesn't win the hart. the next time the devils play pitt, we should have clemmer skate out on the ice and whack crosby in the knee with a pipe. let's give the poor guy SOMETHING to do!

btw, that was just a joke!

The other problem is that Crosby is really f***ing good.

Here's the problem I have with that:

Despite all the hype, he's on pace for 132 points.

Last year, Joe Thornton got the Hart & Ross with 125 point, just 7 less than Crosby is projected to get.

What's so special about Crosby this year?

All it means is that Crosby will have the most points in a season since Jagr's 161 points 10 years ago. It's not like he's breaking Gretzky or Lemieux's 215 or 199 point seasons. Heck, he's only on pace to score under 40 goals for the season.

We know he's going to be good, but how about waiting till he has a monster season?

There's no records being broken here. If Marty breaks records this season, that certainly means he's more valuable to his team that that of Crosby

Here's the problem I have with that:

Despite all the hype, he's on pace for 132 points.

Last year, Joe Thornton got the Hart & Ross with 125 point, just 7 less than Crosby is projected to get.

What's so special about Crosby this year?

All it means is that Crosby will have the most points in a season since Jagr's 161 points 10 years ago. It's not like he's breaking Gretzky or Lemieux's 215 or 199 point seasons. Heck, he's only on pace to score under 40 goals for the season.

We know he's going to be good, but how about waiting till he has a monster season?

There's no records being broken here. If Marty breaks records this season, that certainly means he's more valuable to his team that that of Crosby

First, I think that qualifies as "Really f***ing good." Two, Thornton won the Hart with 125 pts (on a better team) so having more would give you a pretty strong shot at it. Three, once again, I think Brodeur IS the MVP so far, I just don't think he is going to win it for reasons stated previously.

Here's the problem I have with that:

Despite all the hype, he's on pace for 132 points.

Last year, Joe Thornton got the Hart & Ross with 125 point, just 7 less than Crosby is projected to get.

What's so special about Crosby this year?

All it means is that Crosby will have the most points in a season since Jagr's 161 points 10 years ago. It's not like he's breaking Gretzky or Lemieux's 215 or 199 point seasons. Heck, he's only on pace to score under 40 goals for the season.

We know he's going to be good, but how about waiting till he has a monster season?

There's no records being broken here. If Marty breaks records this season, that certainly means he's more valuable to his team that that of CrosbyThornton was special last year, and Crosby is very special this year. However, Martin Brodeur is also very special this year.

Brodeur's season 2/3 of the way through is on pace to be better than either of Hasek's Hart Trophy winning years and better than Jose Theodore's Hart Trophy season.


Also, from a marketing point of view, the NHL would be stupid not to give it to Crosby (I know the writers vote on it). Actually, on second thought, the way the NHL is run, Brodeur will probably win it.Maybe they should just fix the Stanley Cup Playoffs so Crosby can win that. Would that be good for the league?

Stan Fischler interviewed Gary Bettman last spring and asked the commisioner if the Rangers making the playoffs is good for the NHL. Bettman's response was that it was good for the fans of the Rangers, not the league. He was basically saying that National Hockey League does not root for teams to win.

I am certainly not suggesting that. But in the same spirit, Parent's 47 wins in an 80-game schedule.

George Hainsworth won 30 games in 1934-35. That was in the era of 48-game schedules. That would be 50 wins if it were projected out to 80 games. Are you going to give Bernie Parent an asterisk because there were more games?

One interesting aside about Hainsworth's 22 shutouts in 1928-29 is he only won 22 games. There were only an average of 2.9 goals scored per hockey game combined by both teams.

That's a good point but with the discrepancy in games, that's a tough projection to make because a longer season means more up and downs so I'm inclined to think an asterisk is not needed for Parent's record, JMHO. There are less variables, especially in length of season, between Brodeur's (assuming 50 wins) and Parent's records, that I think Parent still deserves some mention for that particular stat.

Don't be fooled by my name or location that I like Parent or something, I grew up in North Jersey and hate eveything about the Flyers and Philadelphia sports but I'm trying to be objective here.

First, I think that qualifies as "Really f***ing good." Two, Thornton won the Hart with 125 pts (on a better team) so having more would give you a pretty strong shot at it. Three, once again, I think Brodeur IS the MVP so far, I just don't think he is going to win it for reasons stated previously.

You need to calm down. I'm not disagreeing with you that Marty shouldn't be the MVP.

Can we stop underestimating the talent that exists on the Pens, especially with a core that's been around for almost 2 seasons now. From Recchi & Gonchar to a an extremely #1 goaltender who is getting better with time. Three highly skilled forwards who ALL would be #1 Centers on every team in the league.

Yes, he is having a good season but 132 points is not that spectacular, even in the current NHL. I think that what we're doing is handing Crosby an award now, because we are expecting greater things for him in the future.

Sidney Crosby deserves all the praise hes recieving this year. Its clear the Penguins are piss poor with out him, and their record when he doesn't score a point proves it. If thats not MVP calibur, I don't know what is. Not that Brodeur isn't a worthy candidate, but I think I would lean towards Crosby also.

You need to calm down. I'm not disagreeing with you that Marty shouldn't be the MVP.

Can we stop underestimating the talent that exists on the Pens, especially with a core that's been around for almost 2 seasons now. From Recchi & Gonchar to a an extremely #1 goaltender who is getting better with time. Three highly skilled forwards who ALL would be #1 Centers on every team in the league.

Yes, he is having a good season but 132 points is not that spectacular, even in the current NHL. I think that what we're doing is handing Crosby an award now, because we are expecting greater things for him in the future.

132 points is not spectacular? What kind of fantasy sports world do you live in? Is this why you bag on Elias all the time?

132 points is tremendous no matter what era your in, and I don't know what other 3 centers your talking about. Malkin you can make the argument for, but after that what is there? Staal? He's not a number one center yet, Gonchar is talented but hasn't played up to expectations and Recchi is a good but aging winger. Expect greater things in the future? He's doing great things now.

Don't be fooled by my name or location that I like Parent or something, I grew up in North Jersey and hate eveything about the Flyers and Philadelphia sports but I'm trying to be objective here.I was really only joking with the Ford C. Frick comment. For anyone who doesn't know, he was the Commisioner of Major League Baseball in 1961 when Roger Maris was going after Babe Ruth's record of 60 home runs in a season. Frick ruled late in the season that Maris would have to hit his 61st by the 154th game of the season as that was the number of games played during Ruth's record 1927 sesaon.

I think Parent should always get recognition for his 47-win season. It was a great accomplishment. Even if several goalies surpass the 50-win mark over the course of time, hockey fans should remember or be made aware of Parent's magical season.

Also, I have to correct myself. It was only a 78-game schedule in 1973-74, not 80.

I was really only joking with the Ford C. Frick comment. For anyone who doesn't know, he was the Commisioner of Major League Baseball in 1961 when Roger Maris was going after Babe Ruth's record of 60 home runs in a season. Frick ruled late in the season that Maris would have to hit his 61st by the 154th game of the season as that was the number of games played during Ruth's record 1927 sesaon.

.

Just learned something new. Now my boss can't claim today was a total waste.

132 points is not spectacular? What kind of fantasy sports world do you live in? Is this why you bag on Elias all the time?Speaking of Fantasy Hockey, look at TSN.ca's Player Rankings (http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?fid=10467). Sid the Kid is only 2nd. While they have to make subjective decisions on formulas to rate the players, the rankings are much less flawed than TSN's Team Rankings.

These rankings do not include Brodeur's shutout of the Islanders last night.

catching up, i think his record will be impressive (if he gets it) but you have to take history into consideration. this has to do with EVERY sport. he doesnt deserve an * next to as the juicers playing with tigher balls dont deserve in baseball. its a record, it will stand. wait until gretzky's records fall in this scoring friendly league.

also, i didnt say it would be easy to break the mark the brodeur might set, im just saying that it isnt impossible. its not an unatainable stat like so many in other sports.

132 points is not spectacular? .

No, it isn't.

50 wins is.

132 points is not spectacular? What kind of fantasy sports world do you live in? Is this why you bag on Elias all the time?

Not 132, but how about 90 points from Elias? He did it once before.

I have brodeur on my fantasy team and we have a category for shootout wins which he has 6, not sure if anyone pointed that out yet just thought i would since i know. Also tell Gionta to score more during regulation i get no points for all of these shootout goals hes getting lol:dunno:

If it was 55 wins, he still wouldn't win the Hart. Brodeur & the Devils have always been marginalized. If Brodeur was to compile the most wins in a season, most shutouts in a season, the lowest GAA for a season, or the highest save % ever recorded for a season, or even if he was just to get 3 out of these 4 mentioned catergories, he would still lose out to Crosby.

It's a popularity contest.Great point there but I hope that your still wrong about Marty not being MVP. Remember Stevens got screwed over for the norris in 94 when Ray Bourque won it yet again. However Marty will always be considered for the Vezina trophy.

50 wins would be great for the franchise the Devils as a team have never won 50 games in a season Marty winning fifty even better:bow:

Well we all know Marty will get or come close to 50 wins, but my question is will Scotty Clemmensen win a game this year?

Goalies (and defenseman) automatically seem to be at a disadvantage when it comes to winning the Hart. It seems to be that there has to be no forward that distinguishes himself for a defender or goalie to win so I'm not sure it has anything to do with being a Devil (Although it probably wouldn't hurt playing in Toronto, NY or Montreal). The other problem is that Crosby is really f***ing good.

Last 8 Hart trophies:
4 forwards
3 goalies
1 defenseman

I think you're right that a goalie or d-man tends to win because no one forwardshad an outstanding year. Pronger was MVP the year Jagr won the Art Ross w/ less that 100 points; the samething happened in Theo's MVP year.

37 wins didn't get Hextall the Hart and 15 shutouts didn't get Esposito one either, but those guys lost to Gretzky and Orr. I just don't Crosby is having as insane a season as the those guys did when they won, so I still believe Brodeur has a real chance. He'll need to have the best season of his career and set the wins and/or shutout record to do it, but he has a real chance.

As far as Marty hitting 50 wins this year, I think he's got a great shot at it, and if I were to just venture a guess right now, I'd say yes he will get 50 wins. To me, if Marty breaks the record this year for wins in a single season, he def. deserves the Hart. While Sidney Crosby is having a great year, he isn't on pace to break any records for scoring as far as I know, while on the other hand Marty could not only break the single season wins record, but the single season modern-era shutout record too.

No one is doubting that without Crosby the penguins wouldn't be near where they are. However without Marty, the devils drop from their current position would be much more dramatic considering they are at a higher seed right now, which Marty has taken them to.

While on one hand you can say "yea but look at what Crosby is doing at his age", the same can be said for Marty. We're not talking about a goalie who is 29 or 30 anymore; he's going to be 35 this year.

I def. agree that there is a double standard though for goalies. If Crosby was having a season where he was on pace to break gretzky's single season 92 goal record, if he was on pace to get like 216 points which would be better thatn Gretzky's single season best, would there even be a question? everyone would agree that he's the MVP. However now that Marty is on pace to break the single season wins record, and could catch the shutout record, there is a discrepancy.

Last 8 Hart trophies:
4 forwards
3 goalies
1 defenseman

I think you're right that a goalie or d-man tends to win because no one forwardshad an outstanding year. Pronger was MVP the year Jagr won the Art Ross w/ less that 100 points; the samething happened in Theo's MVP year.

37 wins didn't get Hextall the Hart and 15 shutouts didn't get Esposito one either, but those guys lost to Gretzky and Orr. I just don't Crosby is having as insane a season as the those guys did when they won, so I still believe Brodeur has a real chance. He'll need to have the best season of his career and set the wins and/or shutout record to do it, but he has a real chance.
Should it have? 37 wins???? 3.00 GAA .902 sv%??

For reference, Gretzky had 183 points that season...second place was 75 points behind.

Stan Fischler interviewed Gary Bettman last spring and asked the commisioner if the Rangers making the playoffs is good for the NHL. Bettman's response was that it was good for the fans of the Rangers, not the league. He was basically saying that National Hockey League does not root for teams to win.

He might have said that, because it's what he must say, but it is better for the league if the Rangers are playing well.

He might have said that, because it's what he must say, but it is better for the league if the Rangers are playing well.

whole heartedly agree

As far as Marty hitting 50 wins this year, I think he's got a great shot at it, and if I were to just venture a guess right now, I'd say yes he will get 50 wins. To me, if Marty breaks the record this year for wins in a single season, he def. deserves the Hart. While Sidney Crosby is having a great year, he isn't on pace to break any records for scoring as far as I know, while on the other hand Marty could not only break the single season wins record, but the single season modern-era shutout record too.

No one is doubting that without Crosby the penguins wouldn't be near where they are. However without Marty, the devils drop from their current position would be much more dramatic considering they are at a higher seed right now, which Marty has taken them to.

While on one hand you can say "yea but look at what Crosby is doing at his age", the same can be said for Marty. We're not talking about a goalie who is 29 or 30 anymore; he's going to be 35 this year.

I def. agree that there is a double standard though for goalies. If Crosby was having a season where he was on pace to break gretzky's single season 92 goal record, if he was on pace to get like 216 points which would be better thatn Gretzky's single season best, would there even be a question? everyone would agree that he's the MVP. However now that Marty is on pace to break the single season wins record, and could catch the shutout record, there is a discrepancy.

:clap: We're in agreement :clap:

Should it have? 37 wins???? 3.00 GAA .902 sv%??

For reference, Gretzky had 183 points that season...second place was 75 points behind.

Sorry if I was unclear in my earlier post. No, I don't think either goalie should have won it for setting a record, in part because Gretzky had one of his insane years and Orr had his first God-like one. While I think Crosby is dominating, I don't think his season is the equivalent to Gretzky or Orr in the prime of their career, so he's not an absolute lock (yet) like those guys were. So if Brodeur keeps this up, he can win.

I think Brodeur may even be the sentimental favorite, but he has less room for error. If Crosby has a slump he make up for it with a string of multi-point games; Marty won't have any multi-win games and 45 wins won't get him the Hart.

Sorry if I was unclear in my earlier post. No, I don't think either goalie should have won it for setting a record, in part because Gretzky had one of his insane years and Orr had his first God-like one. While I think Crosby is dominating, I don't think his season is the equivalent to Gretzky or Orr in the prime of their career, so he's not an absolute lock (yet) like those guys were. So if Brodeur keeps this up, he can win.

I think Brodeur may even be the sentimental favorite, but he has less room for error. If Crosby has a slump he make up for it with a string of multi-point games; Marty won't have any multi-win games and 45 wins won't get him the Hart.
I thought you were saying that no goalie would have had a chance to win the Hart in those seasons despite the "great" years they had.

I agree with your point though.