Ducks still 9 points ahead of the Sharks

The Sharks have had a chance to make up a decent amount of ground on the Ducks and really to this point they haven't really done it. This comes at a time when Anaheim is in the midst of a tough part of the schedule minus two of the teams top players, as well as Beauchemin and up until Tuesday Marchant, in the meantime even though the Ducks aren't playing well they remain 9 points ahead, and a couple of players have upped their games which could help this team quite a bit down the road.

Our March schedule is about as soft as possible. Hang on to the lead through next month and that should do it.

If the team can play like they played during the 2nd and 3rd period against Nashville, this team will hang on to the lead and then we can go back to the good old days :).

Aren't there still four games left against the Sharks? Theoretically, at least, the Sharks could pick up another 7 or 8 points right there.

I'm not up on the Sharks salary-cap contstraints, but if they are not bumping up against the cap, don't rule out another big deal (a la the trade for Joe Thornton last year). Like the Ducks, they have a pro-active GM.

Aren't there still four games left against the Sharks? Theoretically, at least, the Sharks could pick up another 7 or 8 points right there.

Or we can get those 7 or 8 points and really distance ourselves from them. I'm not too concerned about winning the Presidents trophy or even the conference as long as we win the division. Though home ice throughout would be great, but than again the top team rarely wins the cup nowadays.

Or we can get those 7 or 8 points and really distance ourselves from them. I'm not too concerned about winning the Presidents trophy or even the conference as long as we win the division. Though home ice throughout would be great, but than again the top team rarely wins the cup nowadays.

I agree. Rather than "holding on to the lead" with some luck, I'd also like to see the Ducks get some points and distance themselves. This is a good time to see what effort this team can put out there without some of our top players and learn a thing or two.

Personally, I'd like to win the President's Trophy. We all remember what happened in the '03 Finals...3-0 Home, 0-4 Road.

Personally, I'd like to win the President's Trophy. We all remember what happened in the '03 Finals...3-0 Home, 0-4 Road.

Yeah but I also remember what happened to the President's trophy trophy winner that year too. And the year after that. And the year after that.

Out of procrastination, I decided to look into the President's trophy winner/cup champion.

In the 20 years they given it away (could have just counted further and gone with points champion but that'd take more effort), 6 times has the President's trophy winner taken the cup. This is 30% of the time. 2002, the year before the years thejoeman mentions was the last year the 1st place team won the cup. That year was the end of a run where 3 of the previous 4 Pres. trophy winners won the cup.

The 2nd place team, interestingly enough, has only won 2 times.

Probably means absolutely nothing, but interesting discrepency between 1st place and 2nd place.

Other possibilities to look at that I'm not going to would be 3rd place in the NHL, or 1st place of the President's trophy losing conference (which is not as often 2nd place in the NHL as I would have expected).

Yeah but I also remember what happened to the President's trophy trophy winner that year too. And the year after that. And the year after that.

That's really not relevant. You want to play as many games at home as possible plain and simple. It has nothing to do with them winning the President's Trophy. The trophy doesn't lose you games. If you lose with 4 home games a series, it's not likely you were going to win with 3 home games a series. Those teams were much better regular season teams than playoff teams and/or caught hot teams. A healthy Ducks team is built for the playoffs IMO. Make a hot team beat them at the Honda Center to win a series.

Anyway, you are talking about the notorious playoff chokers Ottawa, followed by the soft Wings, followed by the soft Wings. Ducks are a physical team with several clutch playoff performers.

I think it's a mental thing going into the playoffs with the best record because immediately everyone pegs you to win it. I would be very, very happy if we got there because who doesn't want home ice throughout the playoffs? But I won't lose sleep over them losing it to Buffalo or Nashville.

Out of procrastination, I decided to look into the President's trophy winner/cup champion.

In the 20 years they given it away (could have just counted further and gone with points champion but that'd take more effort), 6 times has the President's trophy winner taken the cup. This is 30% of the time. 2002, the year before the years thejoeman mentions was the last year the 1st place team won the cup. That year was the end of a run where 3 of the previous 4 Pres. trophy winners won the cup.

The 2nd place team, interestingly enough, has only won 2 times.

Probably means absolutely nothing, but interesting discrepency between 1st place and 2nd place.

Other possibilities to look at that I'm not going to would be 3rd place in the NHL, or 1st place of the President's trophy losing conference (which is not as often 2nd place in the NHL as I would have expected).
Yeah I don't view it as a curse, 30 percent is actually a pretty good ratio when you consider for the last several years 16 teams have been making the playoffs.

Yeah actually I was kind of surprised it was 30 percent. That was somewhat higher than I expected before doing the numbers. Funny thing is that number would go up if I had gone a few more years back because of a few more years of Oilers, then the Islanders.

So yeah I wouldn't mind getting the President's trophy. Not required, but certainly nice.

Yeah actually I was kind of surprised it was 30 percent. That was somewhat higher than I expected before doing the numbers. Funny thing is that number would go up if I had gone a few more years back because of a few more years of Oilers, then the Islanders.

So yeah I wouldn't mind getting the President's trophy. Not required, but certainly nice.

30% is much better than the 6.25% percent chance you would have if all things were equal. Basically, you are 5x more likely to win than the average team. That's fantastic.

30% can sound bad, but can you break down what % the other seeds have at winning the Cup?

I'm guessing every other seed is less than 30% which means you still have the best chance--winning the pluralority--as the top seeded team.

I'd be extremely surprised if the chances of winning the cup didn't have a strong correlation with the playoff seeding, i.e. a no.3 seed has better chances of winning the cup than say no. 8 seed.

Then again, the sample sizes are probably way too low to make fully reliable stats.

Sharks are now 6 points behind you guys and there starting to get hot.

Sharks are now 6 points behind you guys and there starting to get hot.

The fact that they are still behind with Ducks missing 2 of their top3 players + 1st pairing d-man speaks volumes. I expected Sharks to fly by but for some reason that hasn't happened.

The rest of January doesn't look too bad, although Edmonton and Calgary at their homes will be a little tough. The first 3 games in February are going to be huge. Nashville (only 1 back of us now with a game-in-hand!) and then a home and home against SJ. It appears we may have all our injured players back by then though.

The fact that they are still behind with Ducks missing 2 of their top3 players + 1st pairing d-man speaks volumes. I expected Sharks to fly by but for some reason that hasn't happened.


You are right!

Winnning 6 of 7 is a team without wings! :shakehead

State what you want about injuries. It's Pronger. Without Pronger...your team is vastly different and lacks punch.

I am not big on opponents getting hurt. I wish that dude a speedy recovery.

You are right!

Winnning 6 of 7 is a team without wings! :shakehead

State what you want about injuries. It's Pronger. Without Pronger...your team is vastly different and lacks punch.

I am not big on opponents getting hurt. I wish that dude a speedy recovery.


Well, starting Dec 26th when all our injury problems began, the Sharks have gained 4 more points than the Ducks in 1 more game played. Not exactly flying by. To be fair though, other than the 4 straight losses, the Ducks have been able to pick up points in every other game, lessoning the blow of SJ's 6-1-0 run.

Well, starting Dec 26th when all our injury problems began, the Sharks have gained 4 more points than the Ducks in 1 more game played. Not exactly flying by. To be fair though, other than the 4 straight losses, the Ducks have been able to pick up points in every other game, lessoning the blow of SJ's 6-1-0 run.


You are right. You might also want to check the total number of wins:

30 = Ducks

31 = Sharks (having played one less game)

O.T. points are what has your team on top.

It's all good. Our teams are good. Bashing each other is comical.

You are right. You might also want to check the total number of wins:

30 = Ducks

31 = Sharks (having played one less game)

O.T. points are what has your team on top.

It's all good. Our teams are good. Bashing each other is comical.

Games earning at least a point...

38 = Ducks

31 = Sharks

OT points are a billion times better than no points. The Ducks lose in style. Your team sucks at losing. :sarcasm:

You are right!

Winnning 6 of 7 is a team without wings! :shakehead

State what you want about injuries. It's Pronger. Without Pronger...your team is vastly different and lacks punch.

I am not big on opponents getting hurt. I wish that dude a speedy recovery.

Yeah but if you guys lost Thornton or Marleau, you're team would be reeling too. But we really can't each other until we are both completely healthy again.

You are right. You might also want to check the total number of wins:

30 = Ducks

31 = Sharks (having played one less game)

O.T. points are what has your team on top.

It's all good. Our teams are good. Bashing each other is comical.

Who's bashing your team?? Fact is that Ducks are missing their no.1 goalie and no.1b d-man and no.3 d-man.

I expected Sharks to pass us, that hasn't happened. It's not bashing.

Well with Pronger out, you see the effects he has, however Burke has done a great job with this club. Injuries are part of the game and the Ducks will be in the thick of things. Sharks are a very good team with balanced scoring so my opinion is that these two will battle all the way to the end, with cgy/edm/van battlling lower spots.

You are right. You might also want to check the total number of wins:

30 = Ducks

31 = Sharks (having played one less game)

O.T. points are what has your team on top.

It's all good. Our teams are good. Bashing each other is comical.
omg we lose in shootoutzz thiz team suxx0rz

You are right. You might also want to check the total number of wins:

30 = Ducks

31 = Sharks (having played one less game)

O.T. points are what has your team on top.

It's all good. Our teams are good. Bashing each other is comical.

exactly.

It still takes 60 + 5 minutes effort and not a loss before to get to SO... ;) Ducks have earned their #1 status! :bow:

exactly.

What you fail to realize is that no matter how flawed that seems, it still counts and the fact of the matter is the Ducks are still on top. You certainly wouldn't be complaining if 5-10 of the Sharks' losses were in OT/SO and they had those points.

exactly.

Regulation losses:

Anaheim
3 goals - 2 (both in one week in mid November, one with an EN goal)
2 goals - 2
1 goal - 5


San Jose
8 goals - 1
5 goals - 1
3 goals - 3
2 goals - 4
1 goal - 6


Yeah, you guys are so much more awesome at regulation hockey!

What you fail to realize is that no matter how flawed that seems, it still counts and the fact of the matter is the Ducks are still on top. You certainly wouldn't be complaining if 5-10 of the Sharks' losses were in OT/SO and they had those points.

and I wasn't making excuses for that but one guy in this thread did say he was wondering why the Sharks haven't flew past the Ducks for first place and the more points the ducks got from O.T/SO then SJ was his answer.

I'm not complaining about OT/SO losses because it could easily be in favor of the Sharks, but they do make a team's record look a lot better than it really is.

30-17 is a lot worse looking than 30-9-8.

The extra point is the primary reason the Ducks are still in first place. It's plain fact, I'm not complaining, but it is the truth.

I'm not complaining about OT/SO losses because it could easily be in favor of the Sharks, but they do make a team's record look a lot better than it really is.

30-17 is a lot worse looking than 30-9-8.

The extra point is the primary reason the Ducks are still in first place. It's plain fact, I'm not complaining, but it is the truth.

Those extra points are well earned. They tell you that the team is great at keeping games close. Look at the losses I showed above. The Ducks have never been blown out. And except for 1 week of the entire season, they were within 2 goals of their opponents. Hell, they've only been outscored in 12 games. Just be glad the Ducks suck in shootouts and quit downplaying OT points. You'd love them if you had them instead of 8-0 losses.

Those extra points are well earned. They tell you that the team is great at keeping games close. Look at the losses I showed above. The Ducks have never been blown out. And except for 1 week of the entire season, they were within 2 goals of their opponents. Hell, they've only been outscored in 12 games. Just be glad the Ducks suck in shootouts and quit downplaying OT points. You'd love them if you had them instead of 8-0 losses.

5 of San Jose's last 7 losses have been by one goal (including one with an EN goal), and most of the Ducks OT losses came earlier in the season.

San Jose was 1-7 in shootouts last season, so I guess the primary reason the Ducks finished close to the Sharks in the standings was because of this?

Regardless of whether or not the Ducks are good at keeping games close, they still get points for losing (believe it or not, losing in the shootout is still a loss), and that IS the reason they're still 6 points ahead in the standings. It doesn't matter to me, because that's the way the game is played, but that is the reason the Ducks are ahead.

There's the other way of looking at it. Pretend that the shootout doesn't exist and record keeping is based on pre-lockout methods. For at least a few years (since about 99) overtime losses still result in a point, and ties still result in a point.

With the pre-lockout rules, the Ducks point total would only be lowered 2 points, as in our 2 shootout wins. All our overtime losses would still be . So yes the extra overtime point has helped us. But we would still be ahead of the Sharks (with a 28-9-8-2 W-L-T-OTL record). So unless you're disowning the past 6+ seasons of hockey we'd still be above San Jose. For now.

I honestly don't see why everyone tries to belittle Anaheim's winning. A few Buffalo fans and a few Sharks fans. The record is good and mostly speaks for itself. Between now and the end of the season your favorite team may end up better than us, and the end of season standings are more important. But for now we're better. Deal with it.

Good point obobo23 ^^ Under the new rules, the extra point is simply given to the winner of a skills competition. Even when the Ducks lose in SO, they play the actual hockey game to a tie.
loss in a skills competition at the end of a tie hockey game>>>>>>>regulation loss and never even making it to ot in the first place. Jmo.

And thank God there are no shootouts in the playoffs!

Regulation losses:

Anaheim
3 goals - 2 (both in one week in mid November, one with an EN goal)
2 goals - 2
1 goal - 5


San Jose
8 goals - 1
5 goals - 1
3 goals - 3
2 goals - 4
1 goal - 6


Yeah, you guys are so much more awesome at regulation hockey!
Y'know if we lose this St. Louis game by 5 or even say 8 I'm blaming it directly on you.

Y'know if we lose this St. Louis game by 5 or even say 8 I'm blaming it directly on you.

Davey is the King of jinxing the Ducks. :banghead:

and I wasn't making excuses for that but one guy in this thread did say he was wondering why the Sharks haven't flew past the Ducks for first place and the more points the ducks got from O.T/SO then SJ was his answer.

Too bad your theory sucks completely as Ducks had more OT points already BEFORE Giguere and PRonger went down.

Neeeeext!

5 of San Jose's last 7 losses have been by one goal (including one with an EN goal), and most of the Ducks OT losses came earlier in the season.

San Jose was 1-7 in shootouts last season, so I guess the primary reason the Ducks finished close to the Sharks in the standings was because of this?

Regardless of whether or not the Ducks are good at keeping games close, they still get points for losing (believe it or not, losing in the shootout is still a loss), and that IS the reason they're still 6 points ahead in the standings. It doesn't matter to me, because that's the way the game is played, but that is the reason the Ducks are ahead.
those 6 shootout points are also 6 points lost and could bite this team in the ***. I don't see the shootout going anywhere any time soon and unfortunately playoff spots may be determined by a gimmick.

Davey is the King of jinxing the Ducks. :banghead:

Ooops, looks like I need a losing by 4 goals category. :dunce: (although I partially blame Carlyle for pulling the goalie, killing the 3 goal loss)

I prefer to look at it as the King of Pulling Great Stats Before They Go To Crap.

I think the posters lost the point of the thread: The original point was the Ducks were 9 points ahead in the standings. Today its 6 points. And with the Sharks having two games in hand, if the Sharks win both of those, they are 2 back (1 win).

Personally, I think the Ducks when healthy have the better team. Good goaltending, great defense - tops in the League in my view (#1/#2 skate an inordinate amount of the minutes), and fast skaters especially on the wings who know how to cheat up ice at the right time. Sharks have a very good defense, better top 6 (but not as good as the Ducks D), and equal goal tending and special teams. its a close match-up but the Ducks have the better team IMO when healthy. But you dont get an astick "(*) Ducks would lead the Division if Healthy."

When you take Pronger out of the equation, it totally changes the way the forwards have to play and impacts the team top to bottom. Neidemeyer can't skate every shift and gets stretched more. Forwards have to help on defense more and can't cheat. Add to that the goalie problem and the other injuries and suddenly, the team is quite average. I havent seen the stats, but I suspect since the Pronger injury, the play that used to be more in the offensive zone, has tilted more to the defensive zone. I'll bet there is a corresponding increase in the number of shots the goalie is seeing as well.

What does it mean? Two things have happend since the original thread was started: The Ducks are wounded. The Sharks have found their soul after the 8-0 loss to Phoenix. It also means the Sharks have more depth overall. We can have any defenseman injured and still win. We can lose any top 6 forward, and we still win (I agree Thornton would be a huge hole to fill if he were hurt though - but not impossible given the depth at Center the team skates). We can lose a #1 goalie and still have a #1 goalie.

So if the Ducks continue with these injuries, the Sharks will pass them in the standings. If the injuries linger into the playoffs, the Sharks could become the favorites to win the WCF. What does the Ducks have the Sharks dont? Cap space. I expect some trade to be made soon to strengthen the teams position at number one. We'll see. The GM's will be talking at the All-Star game. Personally, I'm cheering for you guys to stand pat.

Go back to your own boar...Oh wait, that was a nice post. Thanks.

Go back to your own boar...Oh wait, that was a nice post. Thanks.
For the most part I agree except I wanted to clarify one thing. The Sharks probably do have a little more depth than Anaheim. But with the equivalent of our injuries you would not be winning either. Pronger and Beauchemin in essence form an entire line.

The equivalent to the Sharks might be something like losing 2/3 of the second forward line (I'm not sure of the line combos but maybe Marleau and Michalek?) and one of the first line (Cheechoo?). Then add to that an injury to your better goalie and possibly a nagging injury to your worser goalie. You guys might do better than we are doing, but I am still pretty sure you'd be losing.

Edit: I meant to quote wineshark's post not pepper's. I'm not sure how to change that

I agree with WineShark nearly 100% of his post.

The one thing I state is that SJ's depth has allowed them the flexibility needed to bench players and send two down. Different players on SJ are stepping-up (Pavelski and Clowe). Additionally, Erhoff has been fantastic since that 8-0 pounding here in Phoenix.

I expect this to be a great race until the end.

I hope this thing comes down to our teams. Talk about an all-out fistfight!

Respect!:yo:

For the most part I agree except I wanted to clarify one thing. The Sharks probably do have a little more depth than Anaheim. But with the equivalent of our injuries you would not be winning either. Pronger and Beauchemin in essence form an entire line.

The equivalent to the Sharks might be something like losing 2/3 of the second forward line (I'm not sure of the line combos but maybe Marleau and Michalek?) and one of the first line (Cheechoo?). Then add to that an injury to your better goalie and possibly a nagging injury to your worser goalie. You guys might do better than we are doing, but I am still pretty sure you'd be losing.

Edit: I meant to quote wineshark's post not pepper's. I'm not sure how to change that

duck fans gotta feel nervous after the loss to the Oil. It really wasn't close. The Ducks have won now 2 games in the past 10 and the Sharks - if they win the 2 games in hand - are tied. That might be scary enough, but tonight, Nashville witthh their win passed the Ducks for first in the West. If the Sharks win the in-hand games (only 2) they will be in 5th in the West!!!! Man - that is a HUGE drop in the standings and while its clearly due to injuty on the D and in goal, the standings are the standings.

When are you guys going to make a trade to stabilize this train wreck?

duck fans gotta feel nervous after the loss to the Oil. It really wasn't close. The Ducks have won now 2 games in the past 10 and the Sharks - if they win the 2 games in hand - are tied. That might be scary enough, but tonight, Nashville witthh their win passed the Ducks for first in the West. If the Sharks win the in-hand games (only 2) they will be in 5th in the West!!!! Man - that is a HUGE drop in the standings and while its clearly due to injuty on the D and in goal, the standings are the standings.

When are you guys going to make a trade to stabilize this train wreck?

Make a trade? We are still missing our #1 goalie, our #1B defenseman (26:46/game), and our #3 defenseman (24:40). The "train wreck" is injury related more than anything. The team will be fine once we starting getting these guys back.

I think Burke made his move allready but Carlyrle isnt using it.

Caron should be in net and not Bryzgalov.

I realy could care less about where we finish. If we win the pacific, i'd be ecstatic. If we make the playoffs healthy, i know that we have a very good shot againts anyone.

I'm not worried about OTL points. Look at Dallas last year. They used the SO as a crutch to clinch the division. But of course that didn't help them come playoff time. (Ousted in the first round by Colorado). I love how the Sharks this season finished all, but one game in regulation.

I'm not worried about OTL points. Look at Dallas last year. They used the SO as a crutch to clinch the division. But of course that didn't help them come playoff time. (Ousted in the first round by Colorado). I love how the Sharks this season finished all, but one game in regulation.

....Crutch?:dunno:

Dallas finished 12-1 in shootouts, and beat the Sharks by 13 points (Ducks by 14) in the division title race. Is it Dallas's fault both teams went a combined 4-14 in the shootout?

And yes, you're right, it didn't help in the playoffs. Dallas sucked in playoff overtime

My summation: Jiggy, Prongs, and Beuch are coming back after the All-Star break. Losing streak has to come to an end some time. Thank God this is NOT happening before the playoffs. 2 months of regular season hockey left to regroup, recharge and make a Stanley Cup Run. Knock on wood no more injuries to come.

i have a feeling that once giguere and pronger get back, things will be fine. I wouldnt worry too much.

They need something there struggling bad.

I think the posters lost the point of the thread: The original point was the Ducks were 9 points ahead in the standings. Today its 6 points. And with the Sharks having two games in hand, if the Sharks win both of those, they are 2 back (1 win).

Personally, I think the Ducks when healthy have the better team. Good goaltending, great defense - tops in the League in my view (#1/#2 skate an inordinate amount of the minutes), and fast skaters especially on the wings who know how to cheat up ice at the right time. Sharks have a very good defense, better top 6 (but not as good as the Ducks D), and equal goal tending and special teams. its a close match-up but the Ducks have the better team IMO when healthy. But you dont get an astick "(*) Ducks would lead the Division if Healthy."

When you take Pronger out of the equation, it totally changes the way the forwards have to play and impacts the team top to bottom. Neidemeyer can't skate every shift and gets stretched more. Forwards have to help on defense more and can't cheat. Add to that the goalie problem and the other injuries and suddenly, the team is quite average. I havent seen the stats, but I suspect since the Pronger injury, the play that used to be more in the offensive zone, has tilted more to the defensive zone. I'll bet there is a corresponding increase in the number of shots the goalie is seeing as well.

What does it mean? Two things have happend since the original thread was started: The Ducks are wounded. The Sharks have found their soul after the 8-0 loss to Phoenix. It also means the Sharks have more depth overall. We can have any defenseman injured and still win. We can lose any top 6 forward, and we still win (I agree Thornton would be a huge hole to fill if he were hurt though - but not impossible given the depth at Center the team skates). We can lose a #1 goalie and still have a #1 goalie.

So if the Ducks continue with these injuries, the Sharks will pass them in the standings. If the injuries linger into the playoffs, the Sharks could become the favorites to win the WCF. What does the Ducks have the Sharks dont? Cap space. I expect some trade to be made soon to strengthen the teams position at number one. We'll see. The GM's will be talking at the All-Star game. Personally, I'm cheering for you guys to stand pat.
If you had two of your top 3 defensemen injured for a month each(and one of which is your best player IMO, take the best player off of any team and most have some trouble) there would be a noticeable difference, but that's the risk Anaheim took instead of depth the team has gone for a top heavy 2 pairing d core while having a rookie and journeyman pick up the scraps. As long as our d is healthy come playoff time as well as Giguere I like this teams chances.