NHL ALL-STAR GAME in Newark?

One of the benefits of having a new arena is it being showcased to the world by hosting an NHL All-Star Game. The NHL gives it to new arenas as they open up, as Dallas gets it this year and Atlanta next year. 2009 and beyond is undecided.

Think we will get it? Or in 2010? Or do we have to wait like 10 years? Also, would you pay to go? A lot of people don't like the All-Star game and think it's overrated.

Keep in mind that relatively new buildings like in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Anaheim, Nashville, Columbus & Carolina should be ahead of us and have yet to host an All-Star Game. Buffalo & Washington's 'new' buildings are going on 10+ years old now too and they're still waiting.

I went to the 1984 All-Star Game at the Meadowlands when I was 13, but it didn't have all the events, skills competitions, etc. that it has now. It was just a game.

Finally, you'd think the NHL would want to have it within the NYC metropolitan area, something that it hasn't done in the last 23 years. Hopefully that will give us an edge.

Finally, you'd think the NHL would want to have it within the NYC metropolitan area, something that it hasn't done in the last 23 years. Hopefully that will give us an edge.

It was held at MSG in '94. Still a good point, I wonder if Lou cares enough about it to want it though.

It was held at MSG in '94. Still a good point, I wonder if Lou cares enough about it to want it though.

oh yeah, how can I forget that that was the year they keep reliving over & over & over again. But still, that was 13 years ago. It might be the NHL & Vanderbeek more than Lou. I just checked a couple of sites to see what kind of $$$ they're asking for for the Dallas game this season, and I coldn't find anything below $399 for 2 tix for the worst seats in the house.

lol....on second thought, it might look just as good from the TV in my living room

2009 is probably going to be in Montreal as that will be the Habs 100th anniversary dating back to the NHA days. Right now the NHL is committed to the 2010 Olympics so there won't be an All-Star Game that year. Phoenix was supposed to get the game last year so you have to figure they will get in 2011. So that leaves 2012 as maybe the earliest it will come. Considering it is the metro New York area you can bank on an All-Star game coming here.

I'd count on a new Newark arena getting both the All-Star game and the Draft not long after being built

Newark won't get an All-Star game for the same reason Washington hasn't yet: Still a stigma about how dangerous the city is.

You think the NHL wouldn't have jumped at a chance to bring the ASG to the nation's capital yet?

Newark won't get an All-Star game for the same reason Washington hasn't yet: Still a stigma about how dangerous the city is.

You think the NHL wouldn't have jumped at a chance to bring the ASG to the nation's capital yet?

No way. I doubt that a major international sports league as large and well known as the NHL would be that politcally incorrect. Besides, the NBA had their All-Star game in D.C. back in 2001 and that was on a world stage. I got to totally disagree with that one.

One of the benefits of having a new arena is it being showcased to the world by hosting an NHL All-Star Game. The NHL gives it to new arenas as they open up, as Dallas gets it this year and Atlanta next year. 2009 and beyond is undecided.

Think we will get it? Or in 2010? Or do we have to wait like 10 years? Also, would you pay to go? A lot of people don't like the All-Star game and think it's overrated.

Keep in mind that relatively new buildings like in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Anaheim, Nashville, Columbus & Carolina should be ahead of us and have yet to host an All-Star Game. Buffalo & Washington's 'new' buildings are going on 10+ years old now too and they're still waiting.

I went to the 1984 All-Star Game at the Meadowlands when I was 13, but it didn't have all the events, skills competitions, etc. that it has now. It was just a game.

Finally, you'd think the NHL would want to have it within the NYC metropolitan area, something that it hasn't done in the last 23 years. Hopefully that will give us an edge.
I would love for it to be in New Jersey in 2009 for the 25th anniversary of the 1984 NHL All-Star, which you were lucky enough to attend. Chico Resch, as you probably recall, was named MVP.

The game itself is actually boring because they don't have checking or the 1-2-2. It has a basketball feel to it, but does gather most of the top players into one building for a game that has the Ace Bailey benefit as its origin. It would be nice to have it in New Jersey, and I would try to get a ticket.
__________________
Vote Brodeur!
http://cdn.nhl.com/photos/asfb/8455710.jpg
Vote Brodeur! (http://www.nhl.com/allstarballot/)

Newark won't get an All-Star game for the same reason Washington hasn't yet: Still a stigma about how dangerous the city is.

You think the NHL wouldn't have jumped at a chance to bring the ASG to the nation's capital yet?

Thats bull **** the hockey is done inside the arena not in the streets. I'm sure it's pretty safe...

Newark won't get an All-Star game for the same reason Washington hasn't yet: Still a stigma about how dangerous the city is.

You think the NHL wouldn't have jumped at a chance to bring the ASG to the nation's capital yet?


Um, this year's game is being held in in the most violent city in America(according to FBI reports) in Dallas, and Atlanta(a city ranked higher than Washington in danger) is hosting it next year.

I would love for it to be in New Jersey in 2009 for the 25th anniversary of the 1984 NHL All-Star, which you were lucky enough to attend. Chico Resch, as you probably recall, was named MVP.

The game itself is actually boring because they don't have checking or the 1-2-2. It has a basketball feel to it, but does gather most of the top players into one building for a game that has the Ace Bailey benefit as its origin. It would be nice to have it in New Jersey, and I would try to get a ticket.
__________________
Vote Brodeur!
http://cdn.nhl.com/photos/asfb/8455710.jpg
Vote Brodeur! (http://www.nhl.com/allstarballot/)

I don't recall Chico being named MVP but I do remember that Mel Bridgman was the only representative of the Devils for the Wales Conference and he scored a goal and the place went nuts. They had "Meadowlands 34th Annual NHL All-Star Game" painted on both sides of center ice throughout the 1983-1984 season. There was a lot of pride involved because the Arena was new and considered modern & state of the art back then. Plus that was the infamous "Mickey Mouse" season so there was a lot at stake. All-Star games back then were much lower scoring then they are now, but they didn't have the "All-Star Weekend" festivities, skills competition etc. that they have now.

Chico Resch, as you probably recall, was named MVP.
I don't recall...because Don Maloney was named MVP.

I don't recall Chico being named MVP but I do remember that Mel Bridgman was the only representative of the Devils for the Wales Conference and he scored a goal and the place went nuts. They had "Meadowlands 34th Annual NHL All-Star Game" painted on both sides of center ice throughout the 1983-1984 season. There was a lot of pride involved because the Arena was new and considered modern & state of the art back then. Plus that was the infamous "Mickey Mouse" season so there was a lot at stake. All-Star games back then were much lower scoring then they are now, but they didn't have the "All-Star Weekend" festivities, skills competition etc. that they have now.

I thought it was Cirella who was the devils rep at the all star game that year? Along with Chico that is.

I don't recall...because Don Maloney was named MVP.You are correct. Chico Resch was the winning goaltender for the Wales Conference. I guess at some point a long time I changed it from winning the game to winning the MVP.

According to my Devils Media Guide, Chico played 31 minutes and allowed 3 goals while earning the win. Joe Cirella scored a goal and added an assist as the Devils other representative of the game played before a capacity crowd of 18,939 on January 31, 1984. The Wales Conference defeated the Campbell Conference 7-6.

I thought it was Cirella who was the devils rep at the all star game that year? Along with Chico that is.

Correct. I was wrong, it was Joe Cirella, not Mel Bridgman who scored a goal. The MVP was Don Maloney. Also, it was the 36th, not 34th game.

http://www.answers.com/topic/new-jersey-devils

http://www.answers.com/topic/national-hockey-league-all-star-game

Correct. I was wrong, it was Joe Cirella, not Mel Bridgman who scored a goal. The MVP was Don Maloney. Also, it was the 36th, not 34th game.

http://www.answers.com/topic/new-jersey-devils

http://www.answers.com/topic/national-hockey-league-all-star-gameI forgot about the Olympics in 2010, so they will not have an All-Star Game in January/February of 2010.

The All-Star game would be nice, but I'd much rather see us hosting the Stanley Cup Finals next year.

For the past few years all I've heard is that the next 2 in line are probably Phoenix in 2011 (since its been in the east for 2 straight years) and then Carolina in 2012. So I don't know about one in Newark. Plus I agree with what someone said about if Lou even cares enough. He obviously didn't care enough to leave them in East Rutherford so who knows! ;-) But we'll see what happens in 2012.

Holy thread bump Batman.

As for 2012, there won't be an allstar game.

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Mayan2012(7).jpg

I've just realised that Muttley must of only been around for a matter of days when he posted this thread. lol

Why would they have it in a city that won't have an NHL team?

http://www.atmaxplorer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ban_hammer.jpg

Thread fixed.

I would be there both nights.

The investment of the City to the All-star Game is huge.

I've been lucky enough to attend one, in Atlanta. It is not, of course, the biggest thing ever there, but there are a lot of signs all over the place. Everyone knew about it. There were HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of hotel rooms required. There is a LOT of conference room space needed, especially for Fan Fest events.

That being said, there isn't the type of resources required YET. In the next 5-7 years, maybe, but not yet.

I remember Vanderbeek being asked this question.

He said the City of Newark was a few years away from being prepared to host an event like the ALL STAR game and that he had discussions with the league about the very subject.

They wont do anything until the Prudential Centers plan is complete....That plan has a lot to do with renovation of the immediate area.

HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of hotel rooms required
This may be a bit of an exaggeration.

Lou has said that they won't seek out the all-star game until the surrounding area is built up the way they planned.

Imagine the cupholder backlash if the Prudential center hosted it...

This may be a bit of an exaggeration.

Lou has said that they won't seek out the all-star game until the surrounding area is built up the way they planned.

:(

I meant hundreds or thousands. Whoopsies.

Imagine the cupholder backlash if the Prudential center hosted it...

You mean the ones that don't exist upstairs anymore?
:laugh:

You mean the ones that don't exist upstairs anymore?
:laugh:

oh - they're gone? oh well... It was a source of great humor at one time for me personally.

oh - they're gone? oh well... It was a source of great humor at one time for me personally.

LOL they didn't last a month in the new building!!

One of the guys in my section went to get out of his seat to celebrate a goal and the cup holder came with him!

The investment of the City to the All-star Game is huge.

I've been lucky enough to attend one, in Atlanta. It is not, of course, the biggest thing ever there, but there are a lot of signs all over the place. Everyone knew about it. There were HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of hotel rooms required. There is a LOT of conference room space needed, especially for Fan Fest events.

That being said, there isn't the type of resources required YET. In the next 5-7 years, maybe, but not yet.

It actually has everything it needs right now. There are thousands upon thousands of hotel rooms within a 20 mile radius of Newark.

Besides, all those ancillary things they said they would build up around the arena, ie: the usual "hotels & offices" and other assorted "throw ins", will most likely never be built anyway, all-star game or not.

I also see most of any of the dignitaries and VIP's staying at posh, exclusive hotels in Manhattan anyway.

It actually has everything it needs right now. There are thousands upon thousands of hotel rooms within a 20 mile radius of Newark.

Besides, all those ancillary things they said they would build up around the arena, ie: the usual "hotels & offices" and other assorted "throw ins", will most likely never be built anyway, all-star game or not.

I also see most of any of the dignitaries and VIP's staying at posh, exclusive hotels in Manhattan anyway.

While I agree with most of that, they're looking for the rooms to be within 5-10 miles, or within city limits ideally. I just don't see the Devils nor Newark wanting the ASG right now. All the costs involved aren't going to outweigh the benefits, sorry everyone.

The stigma of "Newark" is still there, and the rooms are not of the Four Seasons/W/Doubletree/etc. variety they want for the ASG.

While I agree with most of that, they're looking for the rooms to be within 5-10 miles, or within city limits ideally. I just don't see the Devils nor Newark wanting the ASG right now. All the costs involved aren't going to outweigh the benefits, sorry everyone.

The stigma of "Newark" is still there, and the rooms are not of the Four Seasons/W/Doubletree/etc. variety they want for the ASG.

True, but I don't see the stigma ever going away and I don't see any demand, good economy or not, to build any more major hotels in downtown Newark.

And again, the Four Seasons type hotels are located a short train, bus, VIP car, limo, etc, ride away in Manhattan. Even though Newark will be the feautured city for the ASG, it will be extremely difficult to ignore the fact that there is an extremely cosmopolitan, must-see city located next door and any visit to Newark will almost certainly include a stay or stop over there.

If they would have built the new Meadowlands Stadium with a dome, they most likely would hold a Super Bowl & Final Four at the Meadowlands, which has a worse infrastructure, lack of hotels, etc. than that of Newark.

Vanderbeek is a smart and what seems to be a shrewd businessman. If he likes having things like Championship Plazas and commrative brick programs, I can almost be certain that he will lobby for an ASG, regardless of whether more hotels are built within walking distance of the arena.

Rumor goes there is a Courtyard Marriot being built basically attached the arena in the not very distant future, specifically with the idea of opponent teams and fans to stay their to make the Rock a destination trip, with the Triangle Park, restaurants/bar/shops, a Devils 'museum' of sorts, etc.

With some effort, that's 5-7 years, tops.

I agree with Muttley - a big part of the lure of the all star game here will be proximity to NYC. They are not going to build all of these hotels in downtown newark for one event as I don't think there is enough of a demand for them after the event.

Some of you do realize there's an NCAA Regional coming in 2011 right? If they can get that, they can get the All-Star Game. But I don't care about it anyway...it doesn't mean anything.

As for hotels, prefabs can take about 14 months to build depending on size.

there are also a lot of hotel rooms in hoboken and downtown jersey city which are 20-25 minutes away by PATH train from the arena. There does need to be more to do in Newark (bars and stuff) in my opinion.

Does that mean ASG plus the Draft? I don't know if I could afford to go to the ASG but I would definitely make it out to the draft. 5-7 years doesn't sound like too much of a wait, and I would rather people get a good feel for Newark being a cool place surrounding the arena then rush and have the ASG while it is not completed.

While the area is safe, there is still A LOT of work to be done before Newark can even think about getting the All-Star Game involving redevolpent of the surrounding neighborhood...

There are still abandoned buildings on Edison Place between Champ. Plaza and Brick City Bar thirty feet away from the marvelous glass panes of the Rock, there's still a hideous parking lot where there should be Triangle Park, something needs to be done about the rows of closed bodegas and furniture liquidators on Market Street, etc. etc. etc.

It also wouldn't hurt to get some work done on Penn Station, especially about those hideous-looking lift bridges that span the Passaic River for trains entering Penn from the north... Is PAINT and LIGHTS that hard to come by?!

Oh, and this rant comes from a career in urban planning I aspire to have someday. ;)

While the area is safe, there is still A LOT of work to be done before Newark can even think about getting the All-Star Game involving redevolpent of the surrounding neighborhood...

There are still abandoned buildings on Edison Place between Champ. Plaza and Brick City Bar thirty feet away from the marvelous glass panes of the Rock, there's still a hideous parking lot where there should be Triangle Park, something needs to be done about the rows of closed bodegas and furniture liquidators on Market Street, etc. etc. etc.

It also wouldn't hurt to get some work done on Penn Station, especially about those hideous-looking lift bridges that span the Passaic River for trains entering Penn from the north... Is PAINT and LIGHTS that hard to come by?!

Oh, and this rant comes from a career in urban planning I aspire to have someday. ;)

1) The people who own those abandoned buildings aren't interested in selling yet, or are asking too much money, or are held up in legal proceedings stemming from the eminent domain cases revolving around building the rock itself.

2) Parking lots, 'hideous' as they may be, are a requirement of any of city.

3) Triangle Park will happen sooner or later, but it needs to prove to be profitable before people give up an already profitable business (I.e., the parking lot).

4) Piece by piece, you'll see those stores on Market being replaced. It already is happening. A lot of these places are either historic or need to be completely gutted at very high cost. The area needs to prove profitable before investors come in - which is starting to happen.

5) NJ Transit/Amtrak will never make it look nicer. If they have to choose between balancing a budget/turning profit or painting/lighting, guess which they're choosing? The tracks need constant work which eats up gobs and gobs of money. That's just the way it is.

1) The people who own those abandoned buildings aren't interested in selling yet, or are asking too much money, or are held up in legal proceedings stemming from the eminent domain cases revolving around building the rock itself.

2) Parking lots, 'hideous' as they may be, are a requirement of any of city.

3) Triangle Park will happen sooner or later, but it needs to prove to be profitable before people give up an already profitable business (I.e., the parking lot).

4) Piece by piece, you'll see those stores on Market being replaced. It already is happening. A lot of these places are either historic or need to be completely gutted at very high cost. The area needs to prove profitable before investors come in - which is starting to happen.

5) NJ Transit/Amtrak will never make it look nicer. If they have to choose between balancing a budget/turning profit or painting/lighting, guess which they're choosing? The tracks need constant work which eats up gobs and gobs of money. That's just the way it is.

I never said my suggestions were feasible. :sarcasm:

But in all seriousness, I agree with all of those points, I was just trying to point out what needs/should be done to make the surrounding area more pleasing, especially to those who (still) have warped interpretations of Downtown Newark.

I have no doubt that all of the things I/you have mentioned will happen are some point... Even something that sounds as ridiculous as renovating those lift bridges, because really, those things are knocking on a hundred years old... Easy. Work will have to be done on them eventually... Hell, in ten years, they might be replaced entirely...

Customer Safety/Lack of Lawsuits > Insane profit.

I never said my suggestions were feasible. :sarcasm:

But in all seriousness, I agree with all of those points, I was just trying to point out what needs/should be done to make the surrounding area more pleasing, especially to those who (still) have warped interpretations of Downtown Newark.

I have no doubt that all of the things I/you have mentioned will happen are some point... Even something that sounds as ridiculous as renovating those lift bridges, because really, those things are knocking on a hundred years old... Easy. Work will have to be done on them eventually... Hell, in ten years, they might be replaced entirely...

Customer Safety/Lack of Lawsuits > Insane profit.

I don't think NJ Transit makes any profit. And I'm sure Amtrak doesn't make too big of one either.

Those lift bridges are old, but they are very solid and get good maintenance.

And they are building another tube to go under the Hudson to Penn Station NYC, so there will be a lot of support work down in Newark too. I know that that second tube will have the Raritan Valley Line go straight into NYC.

I don't think NJ Transit makes any profit. And I'm sure Amtrak doesn't make too big of one either.

Those lift bridges are old, but they are very solid and get good maintenance.

And they are building another tube to go under the Hudson to Penn Station NYC, so there will be a lot of support work down in Newark too. I know that that second tube will have the Raritan Valley Line go straight into NYC.

Really?

Word. ;)

But you are very correct when it comes to those new tubes under the Hudson. I completely forgot about those when I was composing my argument.

Really, though... I suppose that I don't have a problem with the infrastructure of NJ Transit's facilities, I'm sure everything they own/operate is well-maintained, especially considering (at least to my knowledge), there has never been a major incident in NJ Transit history...

I'm just the kind of guy who likes the clean and well-kempt look of modern cities... I guess I just want that for Newark. :)

However, I will admit, the old, rustic look of those lift bridges do have an artistic value (for what that's worth). I'm guilty of bringing my camera with me to almost every game I attend: NOT to take pictures of the game, but to find photo ops of the gritty, yet oddly attractive streets of Newark.

(^^^ I don't know if that made sense, as I stated that I like futuristic modern cities, yet I also like the gritty, old-school look of Newark. :laugh:)

But, like you said, it will probably all come together eventually.

(Definitely before the Rock's 10th Birthday, I think.)

1) The people who own those abandoned buildings aren't interested in selling yet, or are asking too much money, or are held up in legal proceedings stemming from the eminent domain cases revolving around building the rock itself.

2) Parking lots, 'hideous' as they may be, are a requirement of any of city.

3) Triangle Park will happen sooner or later, but it needs to prove to be profitable before people give up an already profitable business (I.e., the parking lot).



1) Here's some info on those buildings: http://www.blauberg.com/rockplaza/ Heard construction will staat in January but we'll find out...

2)Why not a large underground garage instead? A crapload of parking isn't required for a place with an abundance of mass transit. And isn't Edison trying to get out of the parking business long-term?

3) Scrape the Children's Museum idea and put a casino in Triangle Park like they will do near the arenas for the Columbus Blue Jackets and Cleveland Cavaliers, and we'll find out how profitable it can be.

PS: NCAA Men's Regional>>>NHL ASG

Um, this year's game is being held in in the most violent city in America(according to FBI reports) in Dallas.

Wait, what? Dallas? Are you sure about that?

Imagine the cupholder backlash if the Prudential center hosted it...

http://jhoyimperial.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/angrycat.jpg

I know that that second tube will have the Raritan Valley Line go straight into NYC.

Wait, what #2? Are you sure about that^2? If this is true I might move back to New Jersey.

1) Here's some info on those buildings: http://www.blauberg.com/rockplaza/ Heard construction will staat in January but we'll find out...

So THOSE are the buildings that we're behind Champ. Plaza in the plans...

I'm assuming a Devils "Hall of Fame"/Team Store in the one on Edison and perhaps a giant multi-story clothing store in the one facing Market.

Ehhhhhh....... hate to be all Debbie Downer on everyone, but thriving luxury townhouses, a substantially increased corporate presence, and glamorous hotels are NEVER coming to Newark, so long as the below is a (literally) almost every.......day.......occurence.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/fatal_shooting_in_newarks_west.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/police_arrest_2_in_shooting_of.html

Ehhhhhh....... hate to be all Debbie Downer on everyone, but thriving luxury townhouses, a substantially increased corporate presence, and glamorous hotels are NEVER coming to Newark, so long as the below is a (literally) almost every.......day.......occurence.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/fatal_shooting_in_newarks_west.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/police_arrest_2_in_shooting_of.html

I hope you know these crimes occurred in the West and South Wards, which are notably two of the worst parts of the city and nowhere near Downtown/The Rock.

It's like saying, "'X' will never come to Manhattan, because 'Y' occurred in East New York."

I hope you know these crimes occurred in the West and South Wards, which are notably two of the worst parts of the city and nowhere near Downtown/The Rock

The above is irrelevant to the point I was making

Why do people always fall for and get suckered into believing all the "hotels, housing & offices" BS?

Every time large projects like stadiums and arenas are proposed, they always include these fluff components like this to fool the public into thinking that interests other than team owners, builders, developers, unions & politicians will benefit from this?

Look at the Barclay's Center/Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn. They said it would be an arena designed by the famous Frank Gehry, a skyscraper named Miss Brookyln, and guess what? Yes, hotels, offices and housing too.

Now that stupid project had only the arena component and Frank Gehry walked away from it and they had to scale the building down. That's it, just an arena with nothing else.

And finally the piece de resistance: Meadowlands "Oh trust us, it won't be a shopping mall" Xanadu. Remember all the minor league baseball, hockey rinks, technical & educational schools, plus you guessed it: hotels & offices? Well, it turned into a shopping mall. A vacant shopping mall that is for a long, long time. Oh, and it has an indoor ski slope a large "Pepsi" Ferris wheel that was supposed to rival the London Eye. Actually, that got scaled back too and probably will not get built either. Oh well.

So truth be told, I firmly believe that 10 years from now, the area around Prudential Center and downtown Newark in general will resemble pretty much the same as it does now.

The above is irrelevant to the point I was making

Well, you seemed to be implying that Newark will never get townhouses, corporations, etc. if stuff like that keeps occurring in Newark.

It came off as a blanket statement as most crime in Newark (like most other major/mid-sized cities) is most prevalent in certain areas, not in the Financial District/Downtown.

Well, you seemed to be implying that Newark will never get townhouses, corporations, etc. if stuff like that keeps occurring in Newark.

Perhaps it never will. Who said it's a gimme? Businesses are leaving New Jersey. Actually, they are fleeing it.

Urban renewal happened 15-20 years ago. It happened almost every where in the U.S, except for New Jersey. It hit Newark late, although they did a good job with NJPAC & of course the Prudential Center. But that's about it.

Newark will never turn into a Camden Yards-Inner Harbor Baltimore, a Jacobs Field-Quicken Loans Arena-Browns Stadium/Rock & Roll Hall of Fame downtown Cleveland or LoDo in Denver.

What are people really expecting, especially in this economy?

Why do people always fall for and get suckered into believing all the "hotels, housing & offices" BS?

Every time large projects like stadiums and arenas are proposed, they always include these fluff components like this to fool the public into thinking that interests other than team owners, builders, developers, unions & politicians will benefit from this?

Look at the Barclay's Center/Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn. They said it would be an arena designed by the famous Frank Gehry, a skyscraper named Miss Brookyln, and guess what? Yes, hotels, offices and housing too.

Now that stupid project had only the arena component and Frank Gehry walked away from it and they had to scale the building down. That's it, just an arena with nothing else.

And finally the piece de resistance: Meadowlands "Oh trust us, it won't be a shopping mall" Xanadu. Remember all the minor league baseball, hockey rinks, technical & educational schools, plus you guessed it: hotels & offices? Well, it turned into a shopping mall. A vacant shopping mall that is for a long, long time. Oh, and it has an indoor ski slope a large "Pepsi" Ferris wheel that was supposed to rival the London Eye. Actually, that got scaled back too and probably will not get built either. Oh well.

So truth be told, I firmly believe that 10 years from now, the area around Prudential Center and downtown Newark in general will resemble pretty much the same as it does now.

I agree to disagree...

While I doubt all these new hotels and whatnot will be constucted (for the reasons you stated above), I still think Newark can change for the better around Downtown...

What I'm referring to are changes that aren't dramatic/huge, but will make a big difference.

Examples:
-Those vacant/run-down storefronts on Market and Broad will most likely get refurbed one-by-one and get some big-same stores.
-This will come true: http://www.blauberg.com/rockplaza/
-Triangle Park will probably become a reality.
-Maybe even a new low-rise office/apartment buildng here or there...
-Subtle beautification processes, like planting trees along the streets, repaving jacked-up streets/sidewalks, new lampposts, etc.

Downtown Newark, while having a bad reputation (albeit thanks to the Central and West Wards, not Downtown itself) has TONS of potential...

Whether or not these changes actually happen is purely speculative.

Perhaps it never will. Who said it's a gimme? Businesses are leaving New Jersey. Actually, they are fleeing it.

^^^ That's the key word in this sentence.

And no one really called it a "gimme."

And businesses are still hanging tough in Jersey... Check this link with a list of Jersey's largest employers: http://www.jobbankusa.com/jobs/new_jersey_nj/job_employment_largest_employers.html

I agree to disagree...

While I doubt all these new hotels and whatnot will be constucted (for the reasons you stated above), I still think Newark can change for the better around Downtown...

What I'm referring to are changes that aren't dramatic/huge, but will make a big difference.

Examples:
-Those vacant/run-down storefronts on Market and Broad will most likely get refurbed one-by-one and get some big-same stores.
-This will come true: http://www.blauberg.com/rockplaza/
-Triangle Park will probably become a reality.
-Maybe even a new low-rise office/apartment buildng here or there...

Downtown Newark, while having a bad reputation (albeit thanks to the Central and West Wards, not Downtown itself) has TONS of potential...

Whether or not these changes actually happen is purely speculative.

You'll never get any of that unless you get upper middle class/professional housing in the downtown area. Other than a few pockets here and there, you will only get certain businesses that thrive on the breakfast and lunch crowd that leave downtown at 5:00 pm.

An arena is a start, but in this economy, no businesses are moving to Newark, if they even choose to stay in NJ at all. And the real estate market is still horrendous, despite lukewarm signs of a recovery. Finally, nobody wil move to downtown Newark, let alone builders and planners wouldn't even think of building there, without access to jobs and the amenities that are needed for 24 hour living.

Edit: And they had an Old Navy store, but it closed in 2007 just before the arena opened.

I firmly believe that 10 years from now, the area around Prudential Center and downtown Newark in general will resemble pretty much the same as it does now.

People hate to hear that, but I agree with you. I think the immediate area around The Rock will improve a little bit from where it is now as a few more restos and shopscome in, but it will become saturated. And the people that are expecting sweeping changes are ignoring history.

Well, you seemed to be implying that Newark will never get townhouses, corporations, etc. if stuff like that keeps occurring in Newark.


MMmmm.... yup, that's pretty much it. High taxes plus high crime plus lack of a great reason for the middle to upper class to move there do not a great real estate market make.

Perhaps it never will. Who said it's a gimme? Businesses are leaving New Jersey. Actually, they are fleeing it.

A few weeks ago I imported the US Census data into Excel to see just how bad it is (yes, I really am a loser like that), and "fleeing" New Jersey is an understatement.

NJ is one of the states experiencing net migration instead of immigration. The taxes on both businesses and individuals is absolutely crushing, and as people "flee", with each passing day there are less people and less businesses to tax. So what do they do to make up for that tax loss? Yup, they increase the taxes on those that remain. Then even more flee, further decreasing the overall tax base, so then they have to raise taxes even more on the "survivors". It's a viscious cycle. New Jersey is absolutely ****ed, it's just that the idiotic "Dancing With the Stars" and "American Idol" watching masses dont know it yet.

We all know the vast majority of what was said to be happening will not. And if you don't know that, your naive.

But I will say I have a pretty good source when I say the backside of the arena, with the small lot on Broad St. will have a ~100 room Courtyard Mariott.

And yes BG, the Raritan Valley Line (which I live on/by so I have a big interest in it) will go directly into NYC once the second tube is complete. I assume it will still transfer tracks in Newark Penn, but without the riders having to switch trains. It will increase trains to/from New York City without greatly increasing trains on other lines (NEC/Essex/etc.)

But I will say I have a pretty good source when I say the backside of the arena, with the small lot on Broad St. will have a ~100 room Courtyard Mariott.

I imagine that makes sense. A small hotel like that would do okay I'd imagine with game/concert nights, and it's safely within the "Green Zone"


And yes BG, the Raritan Valley Line (which I live on/by so I have a big interest in it) will go directly into NYC once the second tube is complete. I assume it will still transfer tracks in Newark Penn, but without the riders having to switch trains. It will increase trains to/from New York City without greatly increasing trains on other lines (NEC/Essex/etc.)

Although I think that extra tunnel is a bit of a boondoggle, selfishly, it would be awesome, as I grew up right off the RVL. With a second tunnel, I would think an express route from Raritan would be likely, where it goes local from High Bridge to Raritan, then zero stops until Newark and then Manhattan.

I imagine that makes sense. A small hotel like that would do okay I'd imagine with game/concert nights, and it's safely within the "Green Zone"



Although I think that extra tunnel is a bit of a boondoggle, selfishly, it would be awesome, as I grew up right off the RVL. With a second tunnel, I would think an express route from Raritan would be likely, where it goes local from High Bridge to Raritan, then zero stops until Newark and then Manhattan.

Not to mention the opponent teams of the Devils. It's a double-dip of sorts, with certain Devils management having a stake in the investment. Very smart business move IMO.

And as for the train tunnel, I live in Union. Last stop before Penn Station Newark. I'm excited to be 15-20 minutes to NYC without transferring trains. That is fantastic news to me. Once it happens, I'll start sending in resumes all over NYC.

I live in Union. Last stop before Penn Station Newark. I'm excited to be 15-20 minutes to NYC without transferring trains. That is fantastic news to me. Once it happens, I'll start sending in resumes all over NYC.

That's only a 40 or 45 minute trip as is; jeez, how close do you need to be? :D

And as for the train tunnel, I live in Union. Last stop before Penn Station Newark. I'm excited to be 15-20 minutes to NYC without transferring trains. That is fantastic news to me. Once it happens, I'll start sending in resumes all over NYC.

I sure hope you get a job soon, because that tunnel won't be completed until at least 2017. ;)




A few weeks ago I imported the US Census data into Excel to see just how bad it is (yes, I really am a loser like that), and "fleeing" New Jersey is an understatement.

NJ is one of the states experiencing net migration instead of immigration. The taxes on both businesses and individuals is absolutely crushing, and as people "flee", with each passing day there are less people and less businesses to tax. So what do they do to make up for that tax loss? Yup, they increase the taxes on those that remain. Then even more flee, further decreasing the overall tax base, so then they have to raise taxes even more on the "survivors". It's a viscious cycle. New Jersey is absolutely ****ed, it's just that the idiotic "Dancing With the Stars" and "American Idol" watching masses dont know it yet.

Right. But this is a national trend. Even once business friendly Florida has gotten and is getting expensive, insurance rates. I read recently that for the first time since pre-WW II, Florida right now has experienced an net migration. People are fleeing there too.

"It's difficult for the working middle class to justify living here," said Mike Jones, president of the Palm Beach County Economic Council. He blamed taxes, along with real estate insurance costs.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/local_news/epaper/2009/08/20/0820_population.html

That's only a 40 or 45 minute trip as is; jeez, how close do you need to be? :D

I don't like transferring trains and being dependent on multiple lines. It's just too much of a hassle that early in the morning for me, :laugh:

I drive 30 minutes to work now. Straight highway the whole way. Rarely traffic, no worries, coffee whenever I want, etc. I like it this way. It has to be 'ideal' for me to change, lol.

I sure hope you get a job soon, because that tunnel won't be completed until at least 2017. ;)


I have a pretty secure job for now at least, so no worries, :laugh:

I read recently that for the first time since pre-WW II, Florida right now has experienced an net migration. People are fleeing there too.

"It's difficult for the working middle class to justify living here," said Mike Jones, president of the Palm Beach County Economic Council. He blamed taxes, along with real estate insurance costs.

Florida has been/is getting worse, but it's more reagonalized that New Jersey, in that there are cheap parts, moderate parts, and expensive parts. That South Florida Palm Beach, WPB, Boca, Lauderdale area is the worst in the state. But there's no state income tax, and they tend to treat business well.

A far cry from New Jersey, where the government geniuses in Trenton essentially prevent you from starting a business here. Seriously? WTH in their right mind that is thinking of starting a business would ever choose New Jersey? You'd have to be an idiot.

If anyone thinks the blighted areas of downtown-esp. by the arena-think they will remain that way in 5-7 years from now, this whole project was just a waste of time, and I'll give you guys cookies. I'm not talking about building 5-star resorts or glamorous office towers. Anything west/southwest of Broad/Market is hard to do but anything else isn't impossible. The economy will improve, NJ is getting someone who at least seems competent in a governor position, and the excuses will start to run out.

And maybe the Devils should take notes. As much as the Penguins annoy some people, they seem to get it: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09323/1014610-28.stm

Hey does anyone think that Lou would want to sign Kovalchuck to the devils Id think it would be great imagine parise and Kovy on the PP:yo:

Also i think a all star game at the rock would be sweet id go:handclap:

Hey does anyone think that Lou would want to sign Kovalchuck to the devils Id think it would be great imagine parise and Kovy on the PP:yo:

it would be awesome but, with martin to sign this off-season and parise the next, there is no room for kovy.

Washington DC is one of the more beautiful cities that I have been too. The Verizon Center is nowhere near the "trouble" spots of DC.

Hey does anyone think that Lou would want to sign Kovalchuck to the devils Id think it would be great imagine parise and Kovy on the PP:yo:

No. It would have to be some kind sign & trade.

The NJD franchise is now where big-ticket FA's go to die. (see Brian Rolston)

To ward off the Hockey Gods and their seeming wrath over our expensive free agent signings, we have to fool them with some kind of sign and trade.