Steve Downie

Now before people start going nuts on me, I am a Canadian and love our boys as much as the next guy but I cannot for the life of me stand Steve Downie.

He takes stupid penalties and yaps till his mouth goes numb.

Am I the only Canadian here who can't stand this guy?

You have to take the good and the bad with him. We've all played with guys like Downie who have a tough time controlling their emotion on the ice. Yes he took 2 dumb penalties today but he also added a big goal and when he is out ther is one of our best players.

If he could keep his temper in check he would certainly help his offensvei game but I think playing on that edge makes him more effective overall. It is when he boils over that he hurts the team. Here's hoping he can be the good Downie the rest of the tourney. Personally I love the guy. He wants to win so bad.

Hes got incredible skill...but he also has a real bonehead side of him.

I think of him like Theo Fleury was for the Rangers (i wasn't really a huge die-heart fan before 2000, so i dont know how he acted before then).

Theo had so much skill but he was just so dumb and took so many stupid penalties (not the hooks and holds), he took the unsportmalikes and dumb punches to the face after the whistle.

I see Downie being just like Theo was for the Rangers.

But lets not forget he is very young...he could change is ways but all signs point to he wont. I saw him do that stupid "shave the opponents face with his stick" away from the ref today that went uncalled(he was suspended i believe a game or 2 in the OHL for doing that). Things like that are a joke and he would get his *** kicked if he tries that in the NHL.

Downie seems to go beyond combative/competitive- to a deep rage. Will that lessen some as he matures? I hope it does.

I think his edge is one of his best attributes. It might not help as much in a short tournament, but if opponents have it in the back of their minds that he might do something crazy, that'll keep them in check a little bit. His yapping at other players and refs probably goes over a little better in the OHL than in international hockey too.

I would never cheer against Canada, but I would seriously consider it if the team was made up of 20 Downies. His actions and demeanor on and off the ice sure make him out to be quite a despicable person. Worse than Claude Lemieux if that's possible (By all accounts, Claude was genuinely a wonderful guy off the ice BTW).

isnt he the one who fought his teammate at practice a couple times against his coach's wanting him to?

Akim Aliu I think it was BTW...

perhaps he has downie syndrom?

I remember in his draft year reading about him with curiosity (he was generally pegged as a 2nd rounder). One scout's comment will always stick in my mind: "He's a dirty rat -- he'll do anything to win."

I wanted the Habs to draft him.

20 Downies
that quote aside, downie is retarded, not in like the comical sense, the guy is actually retarded, in his last 3 international games, Steven Downie(our assistant captain) has THREE 10 minute misconducts. Does it hurt his team in the sense it puts them down a man? no. It hurts them in the sense that they are missing one of their heart and soul players, and I know people like to use the "he plays ona fine line, and sometime crosses it" cliche, but this guy doesnt just cross the line, he goes up to it, takes a **** on it, and sprints past it

Now before people start going nuts on me, I am a Canadian and love our boys as much as the next guy but I cannot for the life of me stand Steve Downie.

He takes stupid penalties and yaps till his mouth goes numb.

Am I the only Canadian here who can't stand this guy?

Could be worse - he could be Jack Johnson!

All for a guy who was named to the tournament's all star team last year....



He can't be that terrible of a guy. Frankly, I'm glad he's a Flyers prospect. I'll wait until he is here doing dumb things before I berate him.

all you have to do to this guy is hit him - hard and often

He'll blow his top and get tossed and he's done.

Continue to do it and eventually he will either snap and get suspended for the year or worse he may wise up and let his ability do most of the talking.

I'm surprised the game plan for any team that plays against him isn't to send a guy out there to goad him into doing something stupid. If I were a coach, it's the first thing I would do. Get Downie out of the game in the 1st period. Hit him and then give him a face wash after every and I mean every whistle. He can't control his temper, may as well take advantage of that. I have a feeling that there's at least 1 moment in every game this kid plays that he's on the verge of snapping. When he gets to that point, we need to find a way to push him over the edge and have him go bonkers. If he's that skilled a player, it's important that we get him off the ice.

And I would make sure that he's targeted EVERY game my team plays them.

all you have to do to this guy is hit him - hard and often

He'll blow his top and get tossed and he's done.

Continue to do it and eventually he will either snap and get suspended for the year or worse he may wise up and let his ability do most of the talking.

I'm surprised the game plan for any team that plays against him isn't to send a guy out there to goad him into doing something stupid. If I were a coach, it's the first thing I would do. Get Downie out of the game in the 1st period. Hit him and then give him a face wash after every and I mean every whistle. He can't control his temper, may as well take advantage of that. I have a feeling that there's at least 1 moment in every game this kid plays that he's on the verge of snapping. When he gets to that point, we need to find a way to push him over the edge and have him go bonkers. If he's that skilled a player, it's important that we get him off the ice.

And I would make sure that he's targeted EVERY game my team plays them. He took an elbow from USA player(I think) in last year WJC and he did not snap. He did nothing. Yesterday, he scored a goal and had 14pm. Upside he scored a goal down side he had a lot of penalties.

He took an elbow from USA player(I think) in last year WJC and he did not snap. He did nothing. Yesterday, he scored a goal and had 14pm. Upside he scored a goal down side he had a lot of penalties.

Thats because he was knocked the hell out

Thats because he was knocked the hell out


No he was not. I think the elbow just slightly clipped him in the ear that he wears a hearing aid in.
One thing people forget, yes Downie loses his cool but he also has a talent of being able to get under the opponents skin. Trust me, when the Petes swept the Wolves last year I despised Downie I could not stand the bugger. He did such a god job of irritating I was livid. If I was that pissed imagine how the players felt. Yeesh he has a natural talent of annoying the hell out of others.

Downie is an embarassment. He is a diving pansy who loses his cool. He gets penalties called against the other team with cheap acting. He has very little class.

I am Canadian, I love Canada. I love watching Team Canada win. I dislike watching Downie in a Canadian sweater.

I would never cheer against Canada, but I would seriously consider it if the team was made up of 20 Downies. His actions and demeanor on and off the ice sure make him out to be quite a despicable person. Worse than Claude Lemieux if that's possible (By all accounts, Claude was genuinely a wonderful guy off the ice BTW).

There is one big difference between Downie and Claude Lemieux, and that is that Downie isn't afraid to drop the gloves if he has to.

Downie=Claude Lemieux ver 2.

I love the guy. Sure he will take penalities, but he brings energy to the ice and trouble to the opponents.

There is one big difference between Downie and Claude Lemieux, and that is that Downie isn't afraid to drop the gloves if he has to.

uhhh, I guess you remember Lemieux the 3rd center, not the brouaha energy winger.

Downie is awesome, and exactly what is missing from most of today's players.

Go Downie Go!

Downie=Claude Lemieux ver 2.

I love the guy. Sure he will take penalities, but he brings energy to the ice and trouble to the opponents.

I'm not sure his evil ways are quite as pre-meditated as Claude Lemieux. Maybe more like a young Darcy Tucker, who would just absolutely lose his mind...

i love Downie.......hes the guy every other team hates, but everyone on his team loves because you know he'll do anything it takes to win.

The guy wants to win, and leaves it all out on the ice. I'd love to have a few Steve Downies on my team. People forget that he also draws a lot of penalties. So in the end its no that bad, plus the kid can score some too!

There is one big difference between Downie and Claude Lemieux, and that is that Downie isn't afraid to drop the gloves if he has to.

And the Stanley Cups and Conn Smythe trophy. Also Lemieux didn't waste his time with misconduct penalties. He stayed on the ice when he needed to.

Hes got incredible skill...but he also has a real bonehead side of him.

I think of him like Theo Fleury was for the Rangers (i wasn't really a huge die-heart fan before 2000, so i dont know how he acted before then).

Theo had so much skill but he was just so dumb and took so many stupid penalties (not the hooks and holds), he took the unsportmalikes and dumb punches to the face after the whistle.

I see Downie being just like Theo was for the Rangers.

But lets not forget he is very young...he could change is ways but all signs point to he wont. I saw him do that stupid "shave the opponents face with his stick" away from the ref today that went uncalled(he was suspended i believe a game or 2 in the OHL for doing that). Things like that are a joke and he would get his *** kicked if he tries that in the NHL.


very good comparison. However, i dont think he will be banned from the NHL for drinking problems like Theo.

All of this controversy over a junior player already.

CANNOT WAIT to have him in a flyers sweater. This place will be real fun then :wink:

How can i not like him? The guy is one of our best players and one of the best players at this tournament period.Every other team playing would take him on their team in a heartbeat no matter how much they hate him as an opponent.as long as he does'nt do anything too stupid(and it's a possibility every game) he'll help you win no question. have'nt seen the guy play a bad game yet,glad he's on our team.

Opponents and their fans hate him? Who cares.

Opponents and their fans hate him? Who cares.

And I dislike him...and I am a Canadian fan.

Those dives and phantom plays where he looks like he is getting shot are cheap. It is embarassing. Plain and simple.

And I dislike him...and I am a Canadian fan.

Those dives and phantom plays where he looks like he is getting shot are cheap. It is embarassing. Plain and simple.

I'm not seeing much of that.I'm seeing a guy who is going headfirst into the opposition and riling them up.he plays crazy but backs it up with his play.it's the way he does it that turns some fans off but he's an easy guy to pick on because of the way helooks and plays but players do what he does all the time just don't get nailed for it.Some guys are scoring goals and putting their hands up to their ears but are universally loved by all .........go figure.

he could tone down some of his antics but bottom line the guy is a good player and we'd be a lesser team without him.We win with him,end of story.We're not here to make friends.

if the guys antics cost us a game(surely a possibility) then i'll get onboard.Until then i'll just be glad he's helping us win.

He gets tapped and he acts like he has ben shot. That is what other teams and other people get so pissed at him about. Also, he will take advantage and throw cheap shots at will, then act all innocent when he gets caught. Frankly, that is a low class style of play.

It is one thing to be aggressive and play hard and do things above board that frustrate the opponent...it is totally another to do things the way he does. That makes me not proud to have him on the team.

See, I am not a win at any cost fan. I am not saying he has no skill - clearly he does. I don't care if he makes friends. I think it taints the wins when he is involved. He reminds me of Tucker - and that is a bad thing.

i love Downie.......hes the guy every other team hates, but everyone on his team loves because you know he'll do anything it takes to win.

Even the guys he fights who are on his team? The guy is somewhat like Fleury, except not nearly as skilled. I can see him having similiar personal problems in the future. Clearly his actions go beyond simply being competitive. He has some personal issues that make him behave like this, who knows how messed up he will be in 10 years.

I really wanna see what happens when Downie plays in the NHL. Im looking forward to seeing a thread in the next 2/3 years with a clip of someone absolutely destroying Downie. He will sooner or later annoy the hell out of someone too much. Downie is really good at annoying the opposition (And his own team) and that is an asset to have. However he crosses the line far to much and he is going to need to learn to play with an edge without doing some of the stunts he does.

I don't like Downie. On the ice, he's a headcase, and off the ice he doesn't seem like the nicest guy either, but those reports are always more subjective than on ice stuff. I know I wouldn't want him on my favorite team, be it national, NHL, or (most pertinant) AHL. Someone in the NHL will absolutely rail him and then it will be interesting to see if the lesson gets learned. I think a young Tucker is a good comparison right now.

I love the Claude Lemieux comparisons. I'm not a Lemieux fan, on or off the ice. He was called a cancer by Herb Brooks, and he held out a few months after signing a new contract in New Jersey. On the ice, he likely the biggest diver in the league, he wasn't afraid to dish out the stick work or a punch behind the ref's back, and he had no problem with turtling. Yet if I was in a Game 7 situation, Lemieux is absolutely one of the guys from his generation that I'd want on my team. One of the best clutch scorers of his time.

You might not like Downie. I don't think he cares. He'll continue to play his game. Opponents will hate him, but his teammates love him. He's a difference maker. He'll score a big goal early in the game, like he did yesterday, make his teammates better, and earn his team two or three power plays with his hustle, effort and abrasiveness. And when the tournament all-star team is announced, Downie will be there again. If Canada wins this tournament, he'll be a strong candidate for tournament MVP.

I really don't like him either.

I can't wait to see him in the NHL though. I'm wondering if he's going to stay such a pest against real men because I'm thinking he's due for a giant ***-kicking if he plays the same way as a rookie.

I have no problem with him being an agitator, playing on the edge, getting on the other team etc but the problem is to be an agitator and be affective in that role you have to be able to get the other guy off his game while maintaining your own. With Downie, he has absolutely no control over himself, and the slightest thing sets him off, so essentially it ends up backfiring. He could have been called for at least one other penalty early in the game for a typical after the whistle overreaction on his part. It just makes me wonder, if he cannot bring it upon himself to stay in control on this grand stage, where can he?

I think he'll be the perfect Flyer and we will see how he does this touney. I hope he's matured and at least he does have lots of heart and hates losing.

I love the Claude Lemieux comparisons. I'm not a Lemieux fan, on or off the ice. He was called a cancer by Herb Brooks, and he held out a few months after signing a new contract in New Jersey. On the ice, he likely the biggest diver in the league, he wasn't afraid to dish out the stick work or a punch behind the ref's back, and he had no problem with turtling. Yet if I was in a Game 7 situation, Lemieux is absolutely one of the guys from his generation that I'd want on my team. One of the best clutch scorers of his time.

You might not like Downie. I don't think he cares. He'll continue to play his game. Opponents will hate him, but his teammates love him. He's a difference maker. He'll score a big goal early in the game, like he did yesterday, make his teammates better, and earn his team two or three power plays with his hustle, effort and abrasiveness. And when the tournament all-star team is announced, Downie will be there again. If Canada wins this tournament, he'll be a strong candidate for tournament MVP.

Exactly. Downie may occasionally lose control but he is an impact player. He was one of the best players on team Canada last year and is a key member agian this year. There was a reason they took him last season despite the contrvoersy surrounding him. The guy is a difference maker who can influence the game in ways that few players can. He doesn't care who loves him or hates him, all he cares about is winning games. He does have his flaws, but I'll take them in order to get his positive attributes.

Downie = Tucker

He gets tapped and he acts like he has ben shot. That is what other teams and other people get so pissed at him about. Also, he will take advantage and throw cheap shots at will, then act all innocent when he gets caught. Frankly, that is a low class style of play.

It is one thing to be aggressive and play hard and do things above board that frustrate the opponent...it is totally another to do things the way he does. That makes me not proud to have him on the team.

See, I am not a win at any cost fan. I am not saying he has no skill - clearly he does. I don't care if he makes friends. I think it taints the wins when he is involved. He reminds me of Tucker - and that is a bad thing.

well,i'm a win at any cost fan.I'd hate him if he did'nt play for us for sure but he plays for us and plays well.

Frankly,international tournaments are win at any costs events.No-ones there to save the whales and aspire to knighthood.You play and produce.......you're on the team.Guys picking teams are'nt looking for only "nice guys". if they did they would be out of a job.

it's not the miss universe pageant.

i haven't seen him play all too much, but given what i have seen and what has been said about his game, i don't think it was any strange coincidence that the only time the American squad seemed to dictate the flow of the game was when Downey was in the box for 10 minutes.

Steve Downie is not Claude Lemieux.

Claude knew when not to cross the line and rarely took stupid stupid penalties like 10 minute misconducts. He had control of his emotions.

Downie on the other hand is like a child, he goes on these temper tantrums and puts the team at a huge disadvantage whereas Lemieux actually helped his team when he got edgy.

He will be the perfect Flyer. It's going to be crazy to see him play against Crosby 8 times a year!

Downie is a ****ing baby. He should just shut his trap and play. He definately isn't doing hmself or his team any favours by constantly complaining.

Steve Downie is not Claude Lemieux.

Claude knew when not to cross the line and rarely took stupid stupid penalties like 10 minute misconducts. He had control of his emotions.

Downie on the other hand is like a child, he goes on these temper tantrums and puts the team at a huge disadvantage whereas Lemieux actually helped his team when he got edgy.

Claude was also a coward who could give it out but would rarely take it. The guy was in tears in the locker room for how much shame he was in after getting his teammates into that brawl against the Red Wings and not defending himself.

Say what you want about Downie, but the guy sticks up for the crap that he pulls, and sticks up for his teammates, and that is not something you could say about Claude. I'll take the annoying, pesky player who goes balls out any day of the week, as long as they back up their crap.

If Downie turns into the clutch player that Claude was, while being a guy your team could depend on when the **** hits the fan, I'll be buying his jersey when he's a Flyers.

You might not like Downie. I don't think he cares. He'll continue to play his game. Opponents will hate him, but his teammates love him. He's a difference maker. He'll score a big goal early in the game, like he did yesterday, make his teammates better, and earn his team two or three power plays with his hustle, effort and abrasiveness. And when the tournament all-star team is announced, Downie will be there again. If Canada wins this tournament, he'll be a strong candidate for tournament MVP.

Very well stated. It seems as if some cannot see past their own personal OHL team or WJC team bias and as such are unable to objectively view Downie for what he is, a team player who scores big goals when they count... wrapped up in the persona of a very good **** disturber. I cannot wait to watch him excel in the NHL. At times Downie plays quite a bit like a Kenny Linesman in his prime. He is a dirty rat who loves to compete.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't his father pass away in a car accident a few years ago? He also has a fairly severe hearing disability. How can the haters not pull for this guy? Go Downie. :yo:

His Dad was driving him to practice and they got in a accident where his father died and Steve lost partial hearing.

His Dad was driving him to practice and they got in a accident where his father died and Steve lost partial hearing.

This happened when Downie was 8 years old.

It's part of the reason he plays the game the way he does. In his eyes, if he fails at hockey, then his father died for nothing. That's a helluva feeling to carry inside and thats why he puts it all out on the line out there.

i love Downie.......hes the guy every other team hates, but everyone on his team loves because you know he'll do anything it takes to win.

If his teammates DON'T like him, he'll just beat the **** out of them and cross check them in the face, right?

All this "his teammates love him" stuff can only go so far. He's already beaten the crap out of one of them. What's next after that?

Thats because he was knocked the hell out

...and how come most Canadian fans even admit that it was a huge as can be dive and you as a Flyers fan doesn't want to admit that?

Steve Downie is all about passion. The guys that yap have their heart and souls in the game. It is impossible for me to not love a player like him.

I love Downie. I think the USA getting off their game trying to get Downie off his game was as much of a factor as anything Downie did of his own accord. He's a heart-and-soul player, and I love Darcy Tucker too for very similar reasons. They have great character. They aren't as cheap as I think they get credit for most times.

Someone in the NHL will absolutely rail him and then it will be interesting to see if the lesson gets learned. I think a young Tucker is a good comparison right now.

Downie was on the wrong end of one of the most viscious cheapshot hits I've ever seen in the open ice. He was knocked completely out and taken off on a stretcher (I believe). I don't think he'll ever take a harder shot than that! And it never taught him anything, actually he wasn't even notorious yet.

It was Doyle of the Sault grey Hounds who got him and he was given a lengthy suspension, the guy was a noted cheapshotter himself.

http://www.chl.ca/OHLNews0304/0304.html

A lot of people talk about Downie in similar circles like Tucker and Claude Lemieux. I think he reminds me an awful lot of Ken Linseman in terms of his play right now. I think Downie realizes that a lot of stuff he does now he won't be able to do at the NHL level and that will mellow him out a bit. However, when he really matures into his role, I can easily see him being a Tocchet type player. And I don't care what anyone says, everyone would love to have a Tocchet type player on their team.

A lot of people talk about Downie in similar circles like Tucker and Claude Lemieux. I think he reminds me an awful lot of Ken Linseman in terms of his play right now. I think Downie realizes that a lot of stuff he does now he won't be able to do at the NHL level and that will mellow him out a bit. However, when he really matures into his role, I can easily see him being a Tocchet type player. And I don't care what anyone says, everyone would love to have a Tocchet type player on their team.

Does Downie have a great kneeing instinct? He'd be a great Tocchet if he did.

A lot of people talk about Downie in similar circles like Tucker and Claude Lemieux. I think he reminds me an awful lot of Ken Linseman in terms of his play right now. I think Downie realizes that a lot of stuff he does now he won't be able to do at the NHL level and that will mellow him out a bit. However, when he really matures into his role, I can easily see him being a Tocchet type player. And I don't care what anyone says, everyone would love to have a Tocchet type player on their team.

Downie seems more like an Avery clone than Tocchet.

If his teammates DON'T like him, he'll just beat the **** out of them and cross check them in the face, right?

All this "his teammates love him" stuff can only go so far. He's already beaten the crap out of one of them. What's next after that?

He didn't mug the guy. He cross check Akim, and the too cool for school superstar sought him out for more. Downie was more than happy to oblige.

By the way, he's actually fought two teammates. He fought Ruggerio during the Flyer training camp, and beat him pretty badly. And if you ask any Flyer fan, it was great to see that kind of competative flame brought to something as trivial as a summer camp. Not many players show up with their game face on for games, practices and training camps.

its getting old how everyones all for him to contain his composure but i still like the kid he has passion thats hard to match.

I think the best comparison so far is to Claude Lemieux. Like Downie, Lemieux was controversial and widely hated. Also like Downie (at least thus far in his young career) Lemieux played his biggest in big games and was a guy you wanted on your team. Hockey is not a nice game. It often helps to have people like Lemieux or Downie on your team. As for his teammates not liking him, I am sure they are quite fond of him when he helps deliver gold medals.

Does Downie have a great kneeing instinct? He'd be a great Tocchet if he did.

Just wanted to let you know that reading your posts about Downie makes me smile and brightens my day

This happened when Downie was 8 years old.

It's part of the reason he plays the game the way he does. In his eyes, if he fails at hockey, then his father died for nothing. That's a helluva feeling to carry inside and thats why he puts it all out on the line out there.

You know whats funny...thats basically how he told it to me when he got to Windsor in his rookie year. He wants to make it to prove the doubters wrong. He will make it...

The whole Downie and Aliu thing is so blown out of porportion. It was basically being the captain and telling someone to pick it up in practise....Aliu basically told him to **** off and turned his back to him. This pissed Downie off...and that's when it all started. Aliu came back out for more after he was kicked off into the room after the first scrap.

It was a sad day in Windsor....we've always loved these guys...Ott, Downie etc.

Worst part is...had Windsor not suspended him he would of kept playing in Windsor. He felt he did nothing wrong and was being someone who got the best out of his team. To be told by a rookie to F off, didn't help. How many rookies you know tell the veterans to ****off? 95% of the rookies would listen and try to improve.

When the Flyers actually become good again (and it will happen fairly soon), I think it's pretty clear that deep runs in the playoffs will be on the backs of win at all cost guys like Steve Downie and Mike Richards. Frankly, I'm happy to have both and I think they'll make 2/3rds of a hell of a line and one that NO ONE will want to play against.

He didn't mug the guy. He cross check Akim, and the too cool for school superstar sought him out for more. Downie was more than happy to oblige.

So I take it you condone what he did to Aliu? Cross checking your teammate in the face is now OK? :biglaugh:

Just wanted to let you know that reading your posts about Downie makes me smile and brightens my day

Didn't have anything to do about Downie. I was taking a shot at Tocchet. One of the biggest cheap shot artists around with his tricky knees. Learn how to decipher what someone is talking about.

Another thing....if you think Downie's teamates didn't like him, your kidding yourself. Almost every player in Windsor wanted Aliu gone by the 2nd month of the season because of his attitude. Everyone was on Downie's side and was really bitter he was traded.

If you don't believe me talk to a Sudbury or Windsor fan. Everytime Windsor plays Sudbury, Cory McGillis, who is one of the lone players left from when Downie was on the team, goes after Aliu. Last time they played, McGillis and him were going at it all night long.

The whole Downie and Aliu thing is so blown out of porportion. It was basically being the captain and telling someone to pick it up in practise....Aliu basically told him to **** off and turned his back to him. This pissed Downie off...and that's when it all started. Aliu came back out for more after he was kicked off into the room after the first scrap.

It was a sad day in Windsor....we've always loved these guys...Ott, Downie etc.

Worst part is...had Windsor not suspended him he would of kept playing in Windsor. He felt he did nothing wrong and was being someone who got the best out of his team. To be told by a rookie to F off, didn't help. How many rookies you know tell the veterans to ****off? 95% of the rookies would listen and try to improve.

Well, there were other factors to that "incident", wasn't there? Like an initiation that went bad. Or were those false reports?

Well, there were other factors to that "incident", wasn't there? Like an initiation that went bad. Or were those false reports?

Supposedly hazing.

Well, there were other factors to that "incident", wasn't there? Like an initiation that went bad. Or were those false reports?

Yeah, the typical rookie initiations like carrying the veterans equipment etc. Aliu refused to do these and that is what began the rift. I guess he's a good guy but just has a huge attitude. Mantha (Windsor coach at the time) probably just let it go. He really didn't much and deserved what he got (fired). The whole "hotbox" thing has been said but no one on the team has said yeah that happened. More along the lines of the typical rookie initiations. Picking up pucks, carrying bags etc

Yeah, the typical rookie initiations like carrying the veterans equipment etc. Aliu refused to do these and that is what began the rift. I guess he's a good guy but just has a huge attitude. Mantha (Windsor coach at the time) probably just let it go. He really didn't much and deserved what he got (fired). The whole "hotbox" thing has been said but no one on the team has said yeah that happened. More along the lines of the typical rookie initiations. Picking up pucks, carrying bags etc

No offense man, but if you honestly believe that that was a result of "typical rookie initiations" such as the ones you defined, then you've never been around junior age players. The typical rookie initiations are far worse than picking up pucks or carrying bags, and one only has to go to a rookie party to see that.

No offense man, but if you honestly believe that that was a result of "typical rookie initiations" such as the ones you defined, then you've never been around junior age players. The typical rookie initiations are far worse than picking up pucks or carrying bags, and one only has to go to a rookie party to see that.

Its funny because I went to school with basically half the team when this occurred and am friends with a few of them still.

Rookie parties is probably what you are thinking about. Junior A, B, C all have rookie parties and yeah they get carried away. Well some do. Aliu was just one of those kids who refused to do things that other rookies would do and that the veterans had done when they were rookies. He didn't put up with it. It didn't go over well. Thats when he started getting the dislike from his teamates.

Its funny because I actually go to school with half the team when this occurred and am friends with a few of them.

Rookie parties is probably what you are thinking about. Junior A, B, C all have rookie parties and yeah they get carried away. Well some do. Aliu was just one of those kids who refused to do things that other rookies would do and that veterans had done. He didn't put up with it. It didn't go over well. Thats when he started getting the dislike from his teamates.

so basically he wasnt a mindless idiot and he stood up for himself...so he got cross checked in the face by the heroic and brave steve downie

Its funny because I actually go to school with half the team when this occurred and am friends with a few of them.

Rookie parties is probably what you are thinking about. Junior A, B, C all have rookie parties and yeah they get carried away. Well some do. Aliu was just one of those kids who refused to do things that other rookies would do and that veterans had done. He didn't put up with it. It didn't go over well. Thats when he started getting the dislike from his teamates.

Well if the OHL is anything like the Q, and I'd suspect it is, rookie initiations and hazing is a lot worse than the regular NHL stuff...

so basically he wasnt a mindless idiot and he stood up for himself...so he got cross checked in the face by the heroic and brave steve downie

I guess you can't read? The whole reason it became a big issue was from practise. Aliu wasn't going hard during a drill...Downie yelled at him to pick it up....Aliu talked back and then turned his back when Downie talked to him and then everything everyone seen on the news occurred.

Well if the OHL is anything like the Q, and I'd suspect it is, rookie initiations and hazing is a lot worse than the regular NHL stuff...

I agree it is alot worse than NHL. NHL are grown men even if your a rookie. In Junior hockey theres anywhere from 15-21 year olds. Im willing to bet most 21 yr olds are bigger then the 15-16 yr olds so the whole intimidation factor came into play.

Don't get me wrong. Downie isn't a saint at all. But he's really not that bad either. He's still only 19, so this behaviour and penalties per game can change. He just needs to work on it and get it through his head he can't afford to get those stupid penalty minutes because coaches in the AHL and NHL will have no problem sitting him. Im curious as to where he sits now that Clarke is gone. Im sure Philly is still glad to have him though. He could end up a nice 2nd liner but more likely a 3rd liner who chips in points and brings energy.

He's a great team guy. He's proven he can take a team on his back and win games. The Windsor and SSM series a couple years back when Windsor was down 3-1 or 3-0 and came back to win it in game 7. Downie was by far the biggest reason as to why they won. Same with WJC last year. He definatley picked up his play in the wJC and was awarded with a gold and All Star selection.

I guess you can't read? The whole reason it became a big issue was from practise. Aliu wasn't going hard during a drill...Downie yelled at him to pick it up....Aliu talked back and then turned his back when Downie talked to him and then everything everyone seen on the news occurred.

So basically Downie became judge, jury, and cross check-ecutioner? One of the problems with all of this is the fact that the coach didn't step in when his moronic, hot headed player confronted a rookie and knocked his teeth out for talking back to him. But the main blame does have to fall on Downie here.

No real way you can make him look anything less than a hot headed ******* in this case. Try all you want. Who cares if Aliu talked back to the guy? It's not like Downie is that much older than him that he somehow has the ability to act the way he did.

So basically Downie became judge, jury, and cross check-ecutioner? One of the problems with all of this is the fact that the coach didn't step in when his moronic, hot headed player confronted a rookie and knocked his teeth out for talking back to him. But the main blame does have to fall on Downie here.

No real way you can make him look anything less than a hot headed ******* in this case. Try all you want. Who cares if Aliu talked back to the guy? It's not like Downie is that much older than him that he somehow has the ability to act the way he did.

you do realize hes still a kid right? im sure he will be still be doin this stuff later in his career, he is after all a Flyer prospect right.:sarcasm:

So basically Downie became judge, jury, and cross check-ecutioner? One of the problems with all of this is the fact that the coach didn't step in when his moronic, hot headed player confronted a rookie and knocked his teeth out for talking back to him. But the main blame does have to fall on Downie here.

No real way you can make him look anything less than a hot headed ******* in this case. Try all you want. Who cares if Aliu talked back to the guy? It's not like Downie is that much older than him that he somehow has the ability to act the way he did.

You do know Junior hockey is 16-21ish right? so an 18 year old is pretty much a veteran if they had played 2 years already. Im not saying what Downie did was right because it wasn't. However, as a leader he stood up and told a player to try harder and actually care. I didn't know pushing your team is wrong now?

Like you said...Mantha didn't do anything. He was a terrible coach and recieved what he deserved like I said before.

Now before people start going nuts on me, I am a Canadian and love our boys as much as the next guy but I cannot for the life of me stand Steve Downie.

He takes stupid penalties and yaps till his mouth goes numb.

Am I the only Canadian here who can't stand this guy?

swiss here...but this guy is a serious pain in the *** for our team last year and for that, yea, he's something else alright.

Funny how the story is Aliu yapped off at Downie from the ice and Downie was sitting on the bench. Downie has hearing problems so unless he is an amazing lip reader I think he just blew his lid because him and Aliu did not get along. Which makes sense because they are very similar type people. Hot headed and do stupid crap.

Thats probably the biggest thing that caused the whole problem. Both have tempers, don't take ppls crap and aren't scared of anyone.

Also Downie is half deaf in his one ear. This was caused from the car accident when he was 8.

Thats probably the biggest thing that caused the whole problem. Both have tempers, don't take ppls crap and aren't scared of anyone.

Also Downie is half deaf in his one ear. This was caused from the car accident when he was 8.


I know about Downie's hearing problems that is why I don't understand how it started because of something ALiu said from the ice to the bench. Anyways that is beyond this thread and it is history. They even shook hands after the series last year. I think Aliu is considered to be a locker room cancer.
And the hazing incident truth be known is Aliu refused to get naked and squish in a bus bathroom with other rookies while the heat was turned up. Personally I don't blame him. But like I said that is either here nor there and hopefully Downie and Aliu have learned. Both not being inocent in this matter either.

i'm torn on the downie subject.

he's a pretty good player and is very gifted offensively, however he plays too far over the edge and takes really bad penalties. so far it hasn't hurt CAN but that's not to say that it won't during the tournament. sooner or later he's gonna have to tone it down a bit because the stuff he pulls at this level won't fly in the NHL.

right now he's the CHL's version of Sean Avery but is more dominant offensively. however what i fail to understand is all the crap that Avery gets but then ppl defend Downie for similar actions. it doesn't hurt to call a spade a spade and take off the red and white tinted sunglasses once in awhile, but alas this is HFboards so i shouldn't expect much else.

If his teammates DON'T like him, he'll just beat the **** out of them and cross check them in the face, right?

All this "his teammates love him" stuff can only go so far. He's already beaten the crap out of one of them. What's next after that?

Akim Aliu was nothing but a baby last year in Windsor. He deserved what happened to him. Minus the loss of teeth.

The actual reason the fight between the two of them started is because Aliu was lolly-gagging in practice during a drill. Downie, being a verteran of the team told him to pick up the pace and Aliu basically attempted to tell Downie to f off. They went at it and Downie got the best of him. Aliu went off the ice, took his skates off and came back on the ice for some more. This time Akim held his own pretty good. All the while Head Coach at the time Moe Mantha was in his office not giving a damn. In case you dont know this the Windsor Spitfires were a complete jokoe in every sense of the word the past 4-5 seasons. Downie sat out and demanded a trade. To finish off his 05/06 season he went to Vancouver, won a gold medal and was named to the tournament All-Star team. If there was an MVP he surely would have got it. Then he went back and helped lead his new Petes team to an OHL championship. What did Aliu do? Got shipped off to Sudbury even though the "problem" was already gone in Windsor. If you think this was Downie's issue then you need to look into the matter a bit further. You might also want to ask the hundreds of other teammates Downie has had what they think of him because I know they love the guy.

I know he does some stupid stuff on the ice and he'll need to quit that, but given what happened to him at the age of 8 how do you not understand the rage that goes on inside him.

I know about Downie's hearing problems that is why I don't understand how it started because of something ALiu said from the ice to the bench. Anyways that is beyond this thread and it is history. They even shook hands after the series last year. I think Aliu is considered to be a locker room cancer.
And the hazing incident truth be known is Aliu refused to get naked and squish in a bus bathroom with other rookies while the heat was turned up. Personally I don't blame him. But like I said that is either here nor there and hopefully Downie and Aliu have learned. Both not being inocent in this matter either.

Even if the guy is "half deaf" how hard is it for the guy sitting beside Downie on the bench to say "hey Steve-o he just told you to f-off". It doesnt matter if he heard it himself or not, he found out and they went at it, twice.

The whole sitauation was handled poorly by Moe Mantha and it started before that day, like others have alluded to. There was a situation on the bus which may or may not have included naked guys in the bathroom on a bus. Also may or may not have included marshmellows being inserted places. None of this is right, and it shouldnt happen. Just like Moe Mantha shouldn't have been sitting at the head of the bus letting it go on. Aliu refused to do any of it and the rest of the Rookies did it. While it is fine that he refused to do that, he also refused to do other stuff like carry bags and pucks, sticks, etc. He often dicked around in practice and generally did not get along with his teammates. For all of these reasons he was shipped off AFTER Downie was long gone.

Mantha's hiring was a complete fiasco in Windsor that lasted a month at best. Downie is NOT the blame for what happened in Windsor. If you think that the hazing ritual was orchestrated solely by him you are wrong. Sick hazing rituals exist on every team in every league of Junior hockey, like it or not. Steve didn't make them up and he certainly was not the guy enforcing it on the bus. He didn't like Akim's ON-ICE behavior, during a practice. That is how the fight started.

Claude Lemieux was a scheming criminal mastermind, Downie is just a demented hothead numbnuts.

But I like him and he's worth the risk, I'd like to have him in the trench with me. I'm glad he's on our side.

Akim Aliu was nothing but a baby last year in Windsor. He deserved what happened to him. Minus the loss of teeth.

That makes no sense.

All Aliu did was be unhappy at some hazing/initiation thing. Obviously, it was something Downie was involved in. Why should I listen to someone who tried to break me down just because I'm a rookie?

I can't wait for the day when Downie plays in the NHL (and I'm sure he will), do we have 40 pages of discusions then. This story is a year old now and I can't understand that this comes up again and again. He is a controversial player sure, but I bet everyone would be happy to have a player like him in his own team.

Didn't have anything to do about Downie. I was taking a shot at Tocchet. One of the biggest cheap shot artists around with his tricky knees. Learn how to decipher what someone is talking about.

I knew what you were talking about. I just quoted your most recent post in the thread. Thats not really that difficult to decipher either.

I knew what you were talking about. I just quoted your most recent post in the thread. Thats not really that difficult to decipher either.

Than maybe you should learn to quote someone right if you're going to take a shot at them, eh?

You do know Junior hockey is 16-21ish right? so an 18 year old is pretty much a veteran if they had played 2 years already. Im not saying what Downie did was right because it wasn't. However, as a leader he stood up and told a player to try harder and actually care. I didn't know pushing your team is wrong now?

Why try and sugarcoat what he did? He wasn't just pushing his team. He knocked a kids teeth out because he didn't like what he did. That's not right anywhere.

Now before people start going nuts on me, I am a Canadian and love our boys as much as the next guy but I cannot for the life of me stand Steve Downie.

He takes stupid penalties and yaps till his mouth goes numb.

Am I the only Canadian here who can't stand this guy?

No I don't really like him either.

I really started to get annoyed at Maguire the other day when he kept saying "The Americans are trying to get Downie off his game...blah blah blah"

He's just STEVE DOWNIE, he's not Toews, Cogilano, Bourdon, Staal or Price, he's Steve freaking Downie. If he gets off his game, he can sit and someone else can take his play.

He's not irreplacable on the team, not by a long shot.

The only way to like a guy like Downie is for him to be on your team. Then sports fan hypocrisy kicks in. Show me a fan who says he doesn't suffer from this and I'll show you a liar.

Agitators,pests, cheap shot artists, you'll find plenty of each on good teams. If a team's game plan revolves around neutralizing a guy who runs his mouth constantly, the coach is set up to lose.

If you agitate, you'd better be able to back it up and you have to be able to play. If you talk and can't play, you're just a tiresome sideshow. It appears Downey can play, so I'm betting he has a decent pro career.

Where things get dicey is that often, these guys start to think it' s all about them.Their wrestling like story line becomes the story of the team, and it takes away from the team. I've seen it happen with a lot of guys, you don't often see these guys last a whole career with one team. We'll see when Downey turns pro if he's willing to skate away and play within whatever role he's given. Of course I'll hate him as a Flyer, I'd hate him more as a Leaf. That's how being a fan works.

No I don't really like him either.

I really started to get annoyed at Maguire the other day when he kept saying "The Americans are trying to get Downie off his game...blah blah blah"

He's just STEVE DOWNIE, he's not Toews, Cogilano, Bourdon, Staal or Price, he's Steve freaking Downie. If he gets off his game, he can sit and someone else can take his play.

He's not irreplacable on the team, not by a long shot.

You're right he's not any of those guys, but based on what I've seen from players from the OHL and the guys on Canada this year. He's the guy who can put the team on his back and win, maybe Toews as well.
As for the Aliu incident that people keep bringing up, yes Downie was wrong and deserved to be punished for the cross-check. But it was absolutely unacceptable for him to be Windsor's scapegoat for the hazing incident. He may or may not have been a guilty party, but he was never suspended or punished by the league after their investigation. So any talk of his participation is simply speculation.
As for fans who are "embarrassed" that he is on the team, get over it. If he takes a dumb penalty in the gold medal game that results in the game winning goal, then complain. Until then all he has done is lead the team to a gold medal and an undefeated record thus far.

The only way to like a guy like Downie is for him to be on your team. Then sports fan hypocrisy kicks in. Show me a fan who says he doesn't suffer from this and I'll show you a liar.

Agitators,pests, cheap shot artists, you'll find plenty of each on good teams. If a team's game plan revolves around neutralizing a guy who runs his mouth constantly, the coach is set up to lose.

If you agitate, you'd better be able to back it up and you have to be able to play. If you talk and can't play, you're just a tiresome sideshow. It appears Downey can play, so I'm betting he has a decent pro career.

Where things get dicey is that often, these guys start to think it' s all about them.Their wrestling like story line becomes the story of the team, and it takes away from the team. I've seen it happen with a lot of guys, you don't often see these guys last a whole career with one team. We'll see when Downey turns pro if he's willing to skate away and play within whatever role he's given. Of course I'll hate him as a Flyer, I'd hate him more as a Leaf. That's how being a fan works.

All very,very true.

Than maybe you should learn to quote someone right if you're going to take a shot at them, eh?

It's my fault for not putting more thought behind my quoting techniques in this particular instance.

I'll remember to do better next time, just for you. Wouldn't want to cause a mass of confusion out of a 2 sentence post again.

You know it's funny.it's not hard to tell there are some fans who can't stand the guy and that's understandable.But i kind of wince when i see fans from a team that seems to have a Downie like character of their own be real passionate in their posts about how Downie is a complete s.o.b that Canadian fans should'nt want on our team.Look at jack Johnson for example.Last year(whether you are convinced Downie dived or not) he did definately TRY to take Downies head off,last game i saw him try to drive Downie into the boards after he scored the first Canadian goal(extremely dangerous),another fan tells me of his smirking in the penalty box after putting his team down a man at a critical time of the game.And earlier this year i was reading right here on HF boards how in an interview with a team before the draft they asked him what he thought of some guys he played with and in particular Kessel and his response was that Kessel was a dirtbag.All these types of behaviours are very familiar and sound exactly like the stuff being singled out as unacceptable dirtbag stuff,like another player whose case they are on...............Steve Downie.

Hmmm.What did mcphee say exactly in that post again?

Just putting it out there ladies and gentlemen.

You know it's funny.it's not hard to tell there are some fans who can't stand the guy and that's understandable.But i kind of wince when i see fans from a team that seems to have a Downie like character of their own be real passionate in their posts about how Downie is a complete s.o.b that Canadian fans should'nt want on our team.Look at jack Johnson for example.Last year(whether you are convinced Downie dived or not) he did definately TRY to take Downies head off,last game i saw him try to drive Downie into the boards after he scored the first Canadian goal(extremely dangerous),another fan tells me of his smirking in the penalty box after putting his team down a man at a critical time of the game.And earlier this year i was reading right here on HF boards how in an interview with a team before the draft they asked him what he thought of some guys he played with and in particular Kessel and his response was that Kessel was a dirtbag.All these types of behaviours are very familiar and sound exactly like the stuff being singled out as unacceptable dirtbag stuff,like another player whose case they are on...............Steve Downie.

Hmmm.What did mcphee say exactly in that post again?

Just putting it out there ladies and gentlemen. I think Johnson will/should go on and have a fine career. One thing I noticed though is that the actions that have brought him into discussion have been for himself, an attempted headshot, a swing he took the other day, nothing that would help the team, only soothe his own frustration. Downey, whether it's flopping or yapping, is trying to get under someone's skin. I can do without it, his outraged face can get to be a bit much, but it's not as selfish a play, at least,imo.

I think Johnson will/should go on and have a fine career. One thing I noticed though is that the actions that have brought him into discussion have been for himself, an attempted headshot, a swing he took the other day, nothing that would help the team, only soothe his own frustration. Downey, whether it's flopping or yapping, is trying to get under someone's skin. I can do without it, his outraged face can get to be a bit much, but it's not as selfish a play, at least,imo.

lol,yeah,i could certainly do without "the face" I'd just want to kill the guy if he played on the other team and saw that.But again,most of the stuff he does seems not to have the selfish angle at all but is a pre-meditated antic to get under the other teams ski.Watching him and it's results the last two years it seems to be working well too.

he has some antics that really get to me but he scores big goals and makes big plays,he's been very valuable so far.

He didn't mug the guy. He cross check Akim, and the too cool for school superstar sought him out for more. Downie was more than happy to oblige.

By the way, he's actually fought two teammates. He fought Ruggerio during the Flyer training camp, and beat him pretty badly. And if you ask any Flyer fan, it was great to see that kind of competative flame brought to something as trivial as a summer camp. Not many players show up with their game face on for games, practices and training camps.

Before this becomes the messed up story that the Aliu beating was, Ruggerio started the fight with Downie, and had been going after him in camp since the rookie camp started. Ruggerio was reprimanded by management as there is a no-fighting rule at camp.

BTW I hear that Steve Downie eats babies, takes candy from small children and is single handedly responsible for global warming.

BTW I hear that Steve Downie eats babies, takes candy from small children and is single handedly responsible for global warming.

Not to mention he wears coats made of bunny fur and kicks the neighbourhood dogs for fun.

It's a pretty sad commentary on the game today when there are CANADIAN fans that hate a player like Steve Downie. Kind of makes you realize why there are so many clowns arguing in favor of the Bettmanization of the NHL in all those threads in the NHL forum.

That makes no sense.

All Aliu did was be unhappy at some hazing/initiation thing. Obviously, it was something Downie was involved in. Why should I listen to someone who tried to break me down just because I'm a rookie?

It makes perfect sense. You've obviously never played on any sort of competitive hockey team. When you are a rookie you pay your dues to become a member of the team. Like it or not that is just the way it is. Unless you were actually on the bus then you don't know what really happened. None of the other rookies refused and no one came out and said that it was all out hazing at its worst after all of this happened. You then tend to wonder how bad really was this?

What apparantly you can't seem to understand is that the fight had nothing to do with the incident. It was days possibly a week or more after. Aliu was not trying in anyway to fit in with the team. No one liked him, he was a baby. Get it yet?

They traded him away long after Downie was gone because none of the Spitfires liked him....a reputation that seems to have followed him to Sudbury.

Not to mention he wears coats made of bunny fur and kicks the neighbourhood dogs for fun.

Damn him and his bunny fur coat conglomerate.

It makes perfect sense. You've obviously never played on any sort of competitive hockey team. When you are a rookie you pay your dues to become a member of the team. Like it or not that is just the way it is. Unless you were actually on the bus then you don't know what really happened. None of the other rookies refused and no one came out and said that it was all out hazing at its worst after all of this happened. You then tend to wonder how bad really was this?

What apparantly you can't seem to understand is that the fight had nothing to do with the incident. It was days possibly a week or more after. Aliu was not trying in anyway to fit in with the team. No one liked him, he was a baby. Get it yet?

They traded him away long after Downie was gone because none of the Spitfires liked him....a reputation that seems to have followed him to Sudbury.

so because he didnt want and have to be someone ***** and carry their hockey bag and puck, he was the baby? thats how you earn respect in Canada to be on a team. your teammates dont judge you by what you bring to the game and what you do on the ice?

so because he didnt want and have to be someone ***** and carry their hockey bag and puck, he was the baby? thats how you earn respect in Canada to be on a team. your teammates dont judge you by what you bring to the game and what you do on the ice?

Ever been to an OHL game? I guess not. After the game the rookies and the healthy scratches are ALWAYS responsible for packing up sticks, pucks, etc. and carrying them out to the bus, along with other players bags, usually vererans on the team...that is just the way it goes, when you are a rookie.

Ever been to an OHL game? I guess not. After the game the rookies and the healthy scratches are ALWAYS responsible for packing up sticks, pucks, etc. and carrying them out to the bus, along with other players bags, usually vererans on the team...that is just the way it goes, when you are a rookie.

Yes that is fine but not willing to get naked and squish in a small bathroom with other males while the heat is turned up is not being a baby. It's standing up for yourself and setting your comfort limitations.

I am in no way saying Aliu is any kind of angel, he has had several troubling off ice issues here which I am not willing to discuss but he has proven to be a undisciplined and selfish young man.All these things have been kept quiet due to the fact this is his draft year. He has also been suspended for calling someone a f'ing Euro which is ironic considering he was born in Africa and raised in Russia, knows five languages and 3 of them are European. When you think he has pulled it together on the ice you find out he screws up off ice.
Both these young men where hot headed testosterone filled egotistical players who could not get along. Downie should never have decided to try his hand at being a lumberjack, and did deserve a suspension but people must realize Aliu is a locker room cancer.

Ever been to an OHL game? I guess not. After the game the rookies and the healthy scratches are ALWAYS responsible for packing up sticks, pucks, etc. and carrying them out to the bus, along with other players bags, usually vererans on the team...that is just the way it goes, when you are a rookie.

Its that way in all organized sports I have played. Hockey, football, baseball, soccer, basketball, track. Pick up this, pick up that. If they didn't do it there would be consequences, usually handed out by a couple of the older players. It was expected, and everyone knew it, and you just did it. Its called respect, respecting the traditions of the game, and respecting those who came before you. Heck in college rookies/freshman usually had to make fast food runs and do errands for juniors and seniors.

This is different then hazing, and hazing is something that I do not approve of if it is of the extreme nature. Most hazing that happened to me and others would be tied to the goal post while our hair was cut, or had to sign the fight song in the cafeteria. Heck

It makes perfect sense. You've obviously never played on any sort of competitive hockey team. When you are a rookie you pay your dues to become a member of the team. Like it or not that is just the way it is. Unless you were actually on the bus then you don't know what really happened. None of the other rookies refused and no one came out and said that it was all out hazing at its worst after all of this happened. You then tend to wonder how bad really was this?

What apparantly you can't seem to understand is that the fight had nothing to do with the incident. It was days possibly a week or more after. Aliu was not trying in anyway to fit in with the team. No one liked him, he was a baby. Get it yet?

They traded him away long after Downie was gone because none of the Spitfires liked him....a reputation that seems to have followed him to Sudbury.


thats all well and good, but it doesn't make Downie less of an idiot for cross checking him in the face.

And I don't buy the Claude Lemieux comparisons. Claude didn't get 10 minute misconducts in important games. Also, there is a difference between playing well in some junior tournies where you are better and older than most guys, and playing well in the stanley cup playoffs like Claude did. If anything hes like Theo Fluery, just not nearly as skilled.

so because he didnt want and have to be someone ***** and carry their hockey bag and puck, he was the baby? thats how you earn respect in Canada to be on a team. your teammates dont judge you by what you bring to the game and what you do on the ice?

What does Canada have to do with Downies antics with Aliu? why not just comment on the player and his behaviour?

Since their is no logical connection to it why bring that in? make your point about the player not some off the cuff comment about the country because it has nothing to do with what Downie as an individual does in a junior league on his own.If it's him doing something in a game with a Canadian sweater on then have at it but not some junior hazing incident.

But of course you guys really don't do this.

Does Downie have a great kneeing instinct? He'd be a great Tocchet if he did.
Only if he runs a gambling ring.:biglaugh:

Its that way in all organized sports I have played. Hockey, football, baseball, soccer, basketball, track. Pick up this, pick up that. If they didn't do it there would be consequences, usually handed out by a couple of the older players. It was expected, and everyone knew it, and you just did it. Its called respect, respecting the traditions of the game, and respecting those who came before you. Heck in college rookies/freshman usually had to make fast food runs and do errands for juniors and seniors.

This is different then hazing, and hazing is something that I do not approve of if it is of the extreme nature. Most hazing that happened to me and others would be tied to the goal post while our hair was cut, or had to sign the fight song in the cafeteria. Heck

having to buy food for someone isn't about respecting traditions, its about being a ***** and afraid to stand up for yourself. Obviously some stuff isn't a big deal (ie. picking stuff up after practice)

No I don't really like him either.

I really started to get annoyed at Maguire the other day when he kept saying "The Americans are trying to get Downie off his game...blah blah blah"

He's just STEVE DOWNIE, he's not Toews, Cogilano, Bourdon, Staal or Price, he's Steve freaking Downie. If he gets off his game, he can sit and someone else can take his play.

He's not irreplacable on the team, not by a long shot.

You're kidding right? Because if you aren't, then you need to be slapped with brick. Downie was Canada's best forward last year and it looks like he's going to be the best forward again this year. Yes, he plays on the edge. Yes, he does annoying things. However, all what the guy does is win and all what the guy wants to do is win. If you honestly think Downie can be replaced but Toews, Cogliano, Bourdon, Staal, etc.....can't be, then you're sorely mistaken. Downie IS the heart and soul when it comes to the fowards. You don't ever sit out a heart and soul player.

It's a pretty sad commentary on the game today when there are CANADIAN fans that hate a player like Steve Downie. Kind of makes you realize why there are so many clowns arguing in favor of the Bettmanization of the NHL in all those threads in the NHL forum.

I'm with you on this one.even today he got the go ahead goal.


The team would be less without him.As long as he stays in control he's one of our key players and you can't just give that up to look good.

Yes that is fine but not willing to get naked and squish in a small bathroom with other males while the heat is turned up is not being a baby. It's standing up for yourself and setting your comfort limitations.

I am in no way saying Aliu is any kind of angel, he has had several troubling off ice issues here which I am not willing to discuss but he has proven to be a undisciplined and selfish young man.All these things have been kept quiet due to the fact this is his draft year. He has also been suspended for calling someone a f'ing Euro which is ironic considering he was born in Africa and raised in Russia, knows five languages and 3 of them are European. When you think he has pulled it together on the ice you find out he screws up off ice.
Both these young men where hot headed testosterone filled egotistical players who could not get along. Downie should never have decided to try his hand at being a lumberjack, and did deserve a suspension but people must realize Aliu is a locker room cancer.

You can't blame the guy for not wanting to do that, if that is actually what happened. The thing is, it wasn;t just that. He refused to do anything that was asked of him by his seniors on the team. None of these things were out of the ordinary, Akim just had a terrible attitude and wouldn't do what was required of him as a rookie. Its really to bad that he carries himself like this, because he does have some talent. He is now considered an afterthought for the draft because of all of this.

You can't blame the guy for not wanting to do that, if that is actually what happened. The thing is, it wasn;t just that. He refused to do anything that was asked of him by his seniors on the team. None of these things were out of the ordinary, Akim just had a terrible attitude and wouldn't do what was required of him as a rookie. Its really to bad that he carries himself like this, because he does have some talent. He is now considered an afterthought for the draft because of all of this.


Actually he is ranked 5th amongst OHL skaters. Like I said alot has been keept hush hush.

[/B]


Actually he is ranked 5th amongst OHL skaters. Like I said alot has been keept hush hush.

No one has him ranked very high, certainly nowhere near 1st round.

It's a pretty sad commentary on the game today when there are CANADIAN fans that hate a player like Steve Downie. Kind of makes you realize why there are so many clowns arguing in favor of the Bettmanization of the NHL in all those threads in the NHL forum.

:clap:

Downie scores another game winner for Canada. Like him or not, the kid scores key goals. Any Petes/ Windsor fan can attest to that.:toothless

As a flyer fan I am looking forward to him playing here.

It's my fault for not putting more thought behind my quoting techniques in this particular instance.

I'll remember to do better next time, just for you. Wouldn't want to cause a mass of confusion out of a 2 sentence post again.

I'd think you'd do it for yourself so you can refrain from looking dumb next time.

I'd think you'd do it for yourself so you can refrain from looking dumb next time.

OMG, did you see him misquote, LOL!? What a nOOb!!

No I don't really like him either.

I really started to get annoyed at Maguire the other day when he kept saying "The Americans are trying to get Downie off his game...blah blah blah"

He's just STEVE DOWNIE, he's not Toews, Cogilano, Bourdon, Staal or Price, he's Steve freaking Downie. If he gets off his game, he can sit and someone else can take his play.

He's not irreplacable on the team, not by a long shot.

Downie, along with Toews, is the best forward on Team Canada. Who do you propose should take his place?

Now before people start going nuts on me, I am a Canadian and love our boys as much as the next guy but I cannot for the life of me stand Steve Downie.

He takes stupid penalties and yaps till his mouth goes numb.

Am I the only Canadian here who can't stand this guy?

Being a flyers fan. the guy has shown smarts, gave team canada power play chances. i would say the guy that takes retarted penalties, made the team to score, and if it werent for price,parent,staal and downie we would have lost the first game is gagner. the only reason our coach has gaven him any benefit of the doubt is because he is from the ohl. please god, dont allow the flyers to draft this knuckle head gagner.

i think you may be the only guy in canada that doesnt like downie. what do you have to say about the johnson incident from last year. let me guess you are speechless as you should be.

Being a flyers fan. the guy has shown smarts, gave team canada power play chances. i would say the guy that takes retarted penalties, made the team to score, and if it werent for price,parent,staal and downie we would have lost the first game is gagner. the only reason our coach has gaven him any benefit of the doubt is because he is from the ohl. please god, dont allow the flyers to draft this knuckle head gagner.

i think you may be the only guy in canada that doesnt like downie. what do you have to say about the johnson incident from last year. let me guess you are speechless as you should be.

:biglaugh: did you give the same scouting report when Joe Thornton and Rick Nash played the same when they where 17?

Another goal and assist for Downie in Canada's 3-0 win. Ya, he sucks. :sarcasm:

Downie dominates again! :bow:

OMG, did you see him misquote, LOL!? What a nOOb!!

Hey, at least you brought yourself down to his level. Congrats!

:shakehead

This thread is hilarious, wahhh Downie is mean, he trash talks and plays to aggressively. I swear the Downie haters here must all be new fans of the game who have no clue what the sport and real players are all about, Bettman must be proud of the new wave of ********* fan he's attracted to the game.

I love the Fleury comparison, a millionairre, professional, coked up, alcoholic compared to a teenage junior player who has emotion in his game. Priceless.

Lots of people also condemning him for the Aliu incident. I wonder, does anyone who was actually know the complete and real story, was anyone there or on the inside to understand the truth of what happened. Probably not, but it was a good media story and most based their judgments on their interpretation and spin they put on it. Typical.

Wonder if those who trash him have ever met him personally and can say that he's trash based on personal knowledge or are all these digs at him just because its what they've heard. I think I know the answer.

Personally, I love his game both as a Canadian and Flyers fan. Does he need to mature, yep, but he's a kid and how many don't? It just kills me how so many can sit here and trash a guy based on nothing more than heresay and media perception. Maybe some people need to take a look in the mirror before they start pointing fingers at others.

This thread is hilarious, wahhh Downie is mean, he trash talks and plays to aggressively. I swear the Downie haters here must all be new fans of the game who have no clue what the sport and real players are all about, Bettman must be proud of the new wave of ********* fan he's attracted to the game.

I love the Fleury comparison, a millionairre, professional, coked up, alcoholic compared to a teenage junior player who has emotion in his game. Priceless.

Lots of people also condemning him for the Aliu incident. I wonder, does anyone who was actually know the complete and real story, was anyone there or on the inside to understand the truth of what happened. Probably not, but it was a good media story and most based their judgments on their interpretation and spin they put on it. Typical.

Wonder if those who trash him have ever met him personally and can say that he's trash based on personal knowledge or are all these digs at him just because its what they've heard. I think I know the answer.

Personally, I love his game both as a Canadian and Flyers fan. Does he need to mature, yep, but he's a kid and how many don't? It just kills me how so many can sit here and trash a guy based on nothing more than heresay and media perception. Maybe some people need to take a look in the mirror before they start pointing fingers at others.


Do you have to know a player to know he does stupid **** on the ice? Come on now, it's a game and when people speak of Downie's antics they are speaking of him as a player, not there friend, not there personal enemy. I do get that some go over board, and say he has no talent yada yada yada which he obviously does, but most are saying he needs to take it down a notch. Usually he find himself on the wrong end of the fine line he walks.

Stve Downie is going to be the next Darcy Tucker with more offensive upside.

Lots of people also condemning him for the Aliu incident. I wonder, does anyone who was actually know the complete and real story, was anyone there or on the inside to understand the truth of what happened.

I know what happened at that practice.. and it's pointless to discuss because both players involved were at fault.

Aliu is an extremely egotistical player and is not considered a 'team-first' kind of guy. According to Aliu's father, his son apologized to Steve Downie in private for mocking and mouthing off to him but that did not solve the problems.

Either way, Downie is a hot-head who needs to cool himself off.. his over-the-top emotional game is going to get him into huge penalty trouble in the future.

Steve Downie is going to be the next Darcy Tucker with more balls.

Fixed it for ya.

Stve Downie is going to be the next Darcy Tucker with more offensive upside.

I wouldn't know about that. Tucker was a really good offensive player in junior. He was probably even better than Downie.

I wouldn't know about that. Tucker was a really good offensive player in junior. He was probably even better than Downie.

True. The problem is - is that he will be like Tucker...classless diving chump that can't take a hit, but will dish out the dirty stuuff without second thoughts.

Admittedly, Downie has played pretty well in the last couple games, but I HATE seeing him flail when he gets brushed to try and draw a penalty. Work hard, fight through checks and the penalties will still get called.

True. The problem is - is that he will be like Tucker...classless diving chump that can't take a hit, but will dish out the dirty stuuff without second thoughts.

Admittedly, Downie has played pretty well in the last couple games, but I HATE seeing him flail when he gets brushed to try and draw a penalty. Work hard, fight through checks and the penalties will still get called.
Downie hasn't played a single game in the NHL, how can you say what he will be? Personally, I don't think Philadelphia fans will tolerate a guy who dives all over the ice and hopefully the first time he does something like that Mike Richards (or someone else)will have something to say about it. I can tell you that if he plays hard nosed, dirty, physical hockey then he's going to be a fan favorite, but if he acts like Darcy Tucker then he will not be received well.

Let's wait at least until he plays a game in the NHL to label him as the next Darcy Tucker in regards to the shenanigans.

Hes got incredible skill...but he also has a real bonehead side of him.

I think of him like Theo Fleury was for the Rangers (i wasn't really a huge die-heart fan before 2000, so i dont know how he acted before then).

Theo had so much skill but he was just so dumb and took so many stupid penalties (not the hooks and holds), he took the unsportmalikes and dumb punches to the face after the whistle.

I see Downie being just like Theo was for the Rangers.

But lets not forget he is very young...he could change is ways but all signs point to he wont. I saw him do that stupid "shave the opponents face with his stick" away from the ref today that went uncalled(he was suspended i believe a game or 2 in the OHL for doing that). Things like that are a joke and he would get his *** kicked if he tries that in the NHL.

Downie has incredible skill? It is basically universal that he will be a 3rd line agitater in the NHL. 2nd liner at best.

Downie, along with Toews, is the best forward on Team Canada. Who do you propose should take his place?

Any of the other players on the team. He's not, along with Toews, the best forward on the team. Just because you hear his name all the time, doesn't mean he's playing amazingly. He has one nice goal and a bunch of Garbage goals.

If I were to rank the forwards on Team Canada it would be

Toews

Coligano
Helm
Downie

Now before people start going nuts on me, I am a Canadian and love our boys as much as the next guy but I cannot for the life of me stand Steve Downie.

He takes stupid penalties and yaps till his mouth goes numb.

Am I the only Canadian here who can't stand this guy?

We are at least two. I played with a winer like that this summer and won't play again on a team with him.

Downie hasn't played a single game in the NHL, how can you say what he will be? Personally, I don't think Philadelphia fans will tolerate a guy who dives all over the ice and hopefully the first time he does something like that Mike Richards (or someone else)will have something to say about it. I can tell you that if he plays hard nosed, dirty, physical hockey then he's going to be a fan favorite, but if he acts like Darcy Tucker then he will not be received well.

Let's wait at least until he plays a game in the NHL to label him as the next Darcy Tucker in regards to the shenanigans.
Well, as a huge Richards fan, and at least a moderate Downie fan, I can't help but wonder at the inherent irony of anybody thinking Richards might have anything to say about "shenanigans" to Downie. Richards is no stranger to dives or "shenanigans" himself. Nor are most any heart-and-soul players in this day and age. Richards might be able to give Downie a few pointers, but the bottom line is almost every player in the NHL these days will take a dive or do whatever they think it takes to give their team an edge. Not all of them can think of it as quickly in every situation or sell it as well as others, however.

OMG, did you see him misquote, LOL!? What a nOOb!!

Hey, some people take this place extremely seriously, don't ruin it for them. /sarcasm

Richards is no stranger to dives or "shenanigans"

How the hell is mike richards known to dive? What are these shenanigans you speak of?

Hey, some people take this place extremely seriously, don't ruin it for them. /sarcasm

Not taking anything too seriously, but to act 5 years old is pretty stupid.

Not taking anything too seriously, but to act 5 years old is pretty stupid.

Perhaps, but its also pretty stupid to nitpick quoting techniques. Either way, lets be done with this

Perhaps, but its also pretty stupid to nitpick quoting techniques. Either way, lets be done with this

Done.

How the hell is mike richards known to dive? What are these shenanigans you speak of?Richards was a great diver throughout his junior career anyway. I don't see him every day in the NHL, but I doubt he has forgotten the art. He's also great at yapping, facewashing, ref-whining, etc... basically all the categories that come with the "heart-and-soul" label. What's not to like about that? As I've said, he's probably my favourite junior player in the last decade, and in my top-5 players in the NHL based on that reputation. :clap: :bow:

Richards was a great diver throughout his junior career anyway. I don't see him every day in the NHL, but I doubt he has forgotten the art. He's also great at yapping, facewashing, ref-whining, etc... basically all the categories that come with the "heart-and-soul" label. What's not to like about that? As I've said, he's probably my favourite junior player in the last decade, and in my top-5 players in the NHL based on that reputation. :clap: :bow:

Sure you aren't confusing Richards with Roy?

Any of the other players on the team. He's not, along with Toews, the best forward on the team. Just because you hear his name all the time, doesn't mean he's playing amazingly. He has one nice goal and a bunch of Garbage goals.

So you're only the best player if you dazzle the non-believers every shift with highlight reel goals?

Sure you aren't confusing Richards with Roy?

Seems that way.

So you're only the best player if you dazzle the non-believers every shift with highlight reel goals?


No my point is any idiot could score them. If O'Marra was out their he would have scored them, Gagne same thing and so on.

So he's not a special player, he's a gritty/dirty player, who doesn't shut up, takes stupid penatlies and is good along the boards.

Sure you aren't confusing Richards with Roy?Roy is what I'd call an egregious and gratuitous diver. This is distinctly different from what either Downie or Richards do. They pick their spots. Most of the time they are actually fighting through traffic, giving an effort that goes above and beyond what most players do. But part and parcel with that extra drive and willingness to do anything in their power to win, and part of their natural on-ice intelligence, is the ability to make the judgement to go down at times too. It's not exactly a significant part of either player's game, especially relative to their higher-than-average portion of time spent fighting effectively in traffic against bigger players. But if you're going to promote the Diver Downie label, I just don't think Richards is a very likely candidate to contrast him with or pick as a player who would take issue with that approach, as they are actually players with very similar qualities and similarly exceptional drive and desire.

No my point is any idiot could score them. If O'Marra was out their he would have scored them, Gagne same thing and so on.

So he's not a special player, he's a gritty/dirty player, who doesn't shut up, takes stupid penatlies and is good along the boards.

O'Marra wasn't out there, Downie was.

Gagner and O'Marra have had tons of chances, and done virtually nothing with them.

You are now grabbing at straws because of your grudge against Steve Downie.

It really doesn't matter how you score them...it is that you did. Not comparing Downie to Ryan Smyth....But he has had more goals reviewed than anyone in the NHL. Off his leg behind but they go in....If Downie can score them it means he is in the right spot at the right time.. that makes him good.

Good thing Downie is a Flyers prospect because he will not get enough respect from his fellow Canadians. The guy is a 1st team All Star WJC, OHL All Star AND and league champ with Peterborough last year, top 10 scorer this year, and now he is playing with a set and your asking him to tone it down. He behaves when he is not provoked.

Good thing Downie is a Flyers prospect because he will not get enough respect from his fellow Canadians. The guy is a 1st team All Star WJC, OHL All Star AND and league champ with Peterborough last year, top 10 scorer this year, and now he is playing with a set and your asking him to tone it down. He behaves when he is not provoked.

And you just agreed with what basically everyone has been saying. Downie loses his temper easily and doesn't "behave" when he's provoked.

Any of the other players on the team. He's not, along with Toews, the best forward on the team. Just because you hear his name all the time, doesn't mean he's playing amazingly. He has one nice goal and a bunch of Garbage goals.
Highly ironic coming from an Oilers fan.

Richards was a great diver throughout his junior career anyway. I don't see him every day in the NHL, but I doubt he has forgotten the art. He's also great at yapping, facewashing, ref-whining, etc... basically all the categories that come with the "heart-and-soul" label. What's not to like about that? As I've said, he's probably my favourite junior player in the last decade, and in my top-5 players in the NHL based on that reputation. :clap: :bow:

You may be right about that at juniors, but in the NHL level i have seen very little of it.

Not that those qualities would be entirely frowned upon by me, as you stated.

It really doesn't matter how you score them...it is that you did. Not comparing Downie to Ryan Smyth....But he has had more goals reviewed than anyone in the NHL. Off his leg behind but they go in....If Downie can score them it means he is in the right spot at the right time.. that makes him good.

Yah, you're right: let's keep this in perspective. A buddy of mine was a Bruins' prospect back in the 70s. He's pretty small, so he didn't make it beyond the minors, but he was (still is) a terrific goal scorer. He still holds the records at UMass.

A while back I was sent some video from my rec league. There was a great behind-the-net shot of a goal I scored from the slot. I one-timed the puck but shanked it a bit and it fluttered over the glove hand. When I showed it to my friend I downplayed the whole thing because of the quality of my shot.

He said to me: "Did you score?. . . Well, then shut up -- that's all that matters. The puck is in the net; style counts for nothing."

Downie has a lot of problems, but he will score goals in the NHL and he will get the rarest of them all: down and dirty garbage goals.

This happened when Downie was 8 years old.

It's part of the reason he plays the game the way he does. In his eyes, if he fails at hockey, then his father died for nothing. That's a helluva feeling to carry inside and thats why he puts it all out on the line out there.

How dare you bring psychological commentary and humanitarian insight into this thread?

When I heard people saying about Downie that he has no skills, I wonder if those people would rather like... say... Pavel Brendl or Steve Downie on their team...

When I heard people saying about Downie that he has no skills, I wonder if those people would rather like... say... Pavel Brendl or Steve Downie on their team...

Exactly! :clap: :clap:

I love how emotional people get whenever Downie is discussed. I don't mean that sarcastically, but rather it is interesting how intensely people scrutinize him. It reminds of Avery/Tucker threads, but I the difference is I don't remember the last Canadian junior player that had so much love/hate surrounding him before he ever stepped into the NHL, to the point where people don't want him on the WJC team.

I doubt he'll change much of his game at the NHL level, so he'll become another Tucker/Avery/Fleury type of player. Not necesarily comparing him skillwise to those 3, but just the amount of hate that'll be directed towards him.

I think the bottom line is that he's a talented kid who plays on the edge, he's not the first and he won't be the last. Flyers fans will absolutely love him, and the majority of the other fans will strongly dislike him. If he can contribute at the NHL level and bring more positives than negatives I'm sure 30 teams would gladly take him onboard.

So you're only the best player if you dazzle the non-believers every shift with highlight reel goals?

I agree 100%. He is not all flash and razzle dazzle. He gets the job done, period. He scores goals. Big goals, small goals, nice goals, garbage goals, just like everyone else. So he's a bad player because he puts himself in a good position to put the puck in the net? Who cares if it's a garbage goal, it shows up the same on the scoresheet. And unlike many players who are "stricly" goal scorers (except OV) he also knows how to throw the body around, and get under other players' skins. He's like an all-in-one player.

If only we could get him to play goal, we wouldn't need a team.

Highly ironic coming from an Oilers fan.

:biglaugh: :clap:

isnt he the one who fought his teammate at practice a couple times against his coach's wanting him to?

Akim Aliu I think it was BTW...

Fighting takes two.

Downie happened to chip Aliu's tooth with a high stick and Aliu came back out to fight him.

Downie is just one of those stereotypical guys that you love to have on your team and hate to play against.

Exaggerating, then extending his on ice actions to his off-ice personality is in rather poor taste if you ask me. Why hate the kid?

When I heard people saying about Downie that he has no skills, I wonder if those people would rather like... say... Pavel Brendl or Steve Downie on their team...

pavel brendl isn't that skilled :dunno:

Downie should be a solid 3rd line guy in the NHL.

pavel brendl isn't that skilled :dunno:
It's well known that Pavel Brendl is extremely skilled. He really is just lazy and lacks any motivation to succeed it seems. His lack of character as well as his atrocious skating are what kept Brendl from becoming an NHL player. If Brendl was even a poor skater he would have a place on some team's second line in the NHL, but he's not. He's seriously a worse skater than Derian Hatcher. Brendl has a top notch array of shots, but he's too slow to ever be in a scoring position to use them and he's a perimeter player, so he's definitely not going to be banging in rebounds around the net.

Pavel Brendl may indeed be a crappy hockey player, but the guy does have great puck skills.

So where was the Steve Downie all of you haters were talking about? :dunno:

So where was the Steve Downie all of you haters were talking about? :dunno:

He was winning his second gold medal.

It's well known that Pavel Brendl is extremely skilled. He really is just lazy and lacks any motivation to succeed it seems. His lack of character as well as his atrocious skating are what kept Brendl from becoming an NHL player. If Brendl was even a poor skater he would have a place on some team's second line in the NHL, but he's not. He's seriously a worse skater than Derian Hatcher. Brendl has a top notch array of shots, but he's too slow to ever be in a scoring position to use them and he's a perimeter player, so he's definitely not going to be banging in rebounds around the net.

Pavel Brendl may indeed be a crappy hockey player, but the guy does have great puck skills.

so skating isn't a skill? good to know

so skating isn't a skill? good to know
Yes, one of many. It's highly inaccurate to say that Brendl isn't skilled.

Was Downie injured during the tournament? I saw highlights of him and a few other guys when they were at the Leafs game, and he was walking with a rather obvious limp.

I'm a Pens fan, and I still think Downie's great. Nice nose for the net, vision, actually one of the best dishers on Team Canada, a beast on the cycle, can hit, and always plays his heart out.

I'd take him on my team.

i play the exact same way just not quite as good

I'm a Pens fan, and I still think Downie's great. Nice nose for the net, vision, actually one of the best dishers on Team Canada, a beast on the cycle, can hit, and always plays his heart out.

I'd take him on my team.

Trade him for Crosby? We'll throw in a pick.:sarcasm:

at the number of persons viewing this thread.

This demonstrates just how important **** disturbers are on a hockey team.

If you play with them you love them.

If you play against them, you hate them.

I'd just like to say I will always love watching Downie play; that's because I really don't have a favorite NHL team. Also, I always respect a guy that can beat you in the alleys, beat you on the scoreboard and get you off your game.

As someone said earlier, "I play exactly the same way, but just not quite as good".:biglaugh:

I am Steve Downie w/o talent.:D :handclap: :blush: :confused: :sarcasm:

I DO not agree what he did to his teamate in Windsor, and for that will never be a fan of his.

True Flyer.

True Flyer.

What? "True Flyers" beat up their teammates? I'm a fan of Downie's and certainly don't advocate some of the things he does, but I don't understand what this means. This isn't the 1970s anymore.