WJC: Dec 27 GDT - Slovakia 2 Germany 4

Game start: 19:00 local time | 1 PM ET
Liveticker: http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournaments_07/output/w20/hydra.iihf.com/IIHF_Core/jsp/content/web_output/index.jsp@compId=96

vBookie http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=325916

This game means so much to both on many levels.

I can't wait to hear how Mihalik plays.

2-0 Germany Schuetz with 1 goal and one assist so far :yo:

Looks like Germany is for real.

goal slovakia on 2 man PP

Juraj Mikus :yo: :handclap:

Any word on Mihalik or Bartanus?

What's the score in this game?

What's the score in this game?

2-2

This game means so much to both on many levels.

Agreed. With the U.S. getting off to a bad start against Canada, and their loss yesterday, there's an opportunity for either of these teams to get into the playoff round, which would be huge for either country.

Plus, I'm also assuming that this game has huge ramifications on whether either of these teams gets relegated to the lower pool for next year.

3-2 Germany :yo:

4-2 germany

Oh how i would love to see this. :/

Me too.

Don't you just love the Gogulla-Schutz-Gawlik line? :yo:

What I feared would happen will happen. We will fall into the B category unless we beat Finland and Belarus (assuming we lose to CAN and the US but that is almost certain).

The state of our junior hockey system here is just atrocius.

Germany wins again!

Slovakia - Germany 2 - 4 ( 1 - 2 , 1 - 0 , 0 - 2 )

I hope that the IIHF will wake up and expand the elite tournament to 12 teams. I don't see a point in Slovakia relegating (if they do) and making mince-meat of Div I next year. Even if their junior program is not good now, it will still be better than all Div I nations.

Great win. :yo:

Schuetz Gawlik and Schuetz look like the real deal hope Boston ties up the 3rd one as well and we see them at the worldchampionship. :clap:

Great win. :yo:

Schuetz Gawlik and Schuetz look like the real deal hope Boston ties up the 3rd one as well and we see them at the worldchampionship. :clap:

I think one of your Schuetz is Gogulla and I'm pretty sure you mean Buffalo, since they drafted Schuetz and Gogulla. ;)

Yeah, that got me pretty confused, lol.

Ah, well if you should find highlights or anything please post them.

Oops. Wrong forum.

I've got mixed feelings about this. It's fun that the germans can do good. But it certainly does not make things easy for Sweden.

Wow, nice to see Germany getting some early sucess!!!

Way to go Germany! Nice to see that you are doing so well boyz. :clap:

I've got mixed feelings about this. It's fun that the germans can do good. But it certainly does not make things easy for Sweden.

I don't think it's going to get any easier in the future either. While many experts have been forcasting that the USA will become a dominant hockey power, Germany has also been a sleeping giant.

What I feared would happen will happen. We will fall into the B category unless we beat Finland and Belarus (assuming we lose to CAN and the US but that is almost certain).

The state of our junior hockey system here is just atrocius.
PB,

As someone who is much closer to Slovak hockey than 99 per cent of us, do you have a reason for that? The Slovaks seemed to be in great shape after the bronze medal at the 1999 WJC, the gold at the 2002 Worlds and the silver at the 2003 WU18. But they've really struggled in recent years.

Did they make the same mistake that the Swedes made in the mid-to-late 1990s and put too much emphasis on systems, turning the kids off the game? Or is it something deeper?

Those talented Slovaks who came up in the late 90s/early 00s would have started their development in Czechoslovakia before the breakup. The kids we're watching the last couple years and this year have played the vast majority or all of their developmental hockey in Slovakia. Does that have anything to do with the struggles in the developmental system?

I don't think it's going to get any easier in the future either. While many experts have been forcasting that the USA will become a dominant hockey power, Germany has also been a sleeping giant.

To be honest, Germany is far ahead from being a sleeping giant. We have much more talent than four or five years ago, but the gap between the top-seven nations and Germany is still VERY large.

I usually cheer for Canada during international hockey tournaments, but when we'll face Deutschland next week, I really don't know who I'll cheer for! :amazed:

I don't think it's going to get any easier in the future either. While many experts have been forcasting that the USA will become a dominant hockey power, Germany has also been a sleeping giant.

This is pretty much Germany's best team in years, the talent drops off considerably for the next few years. Even if they made it past this round, they should be back to their usual routine from next year on.

Those talented Slovaks who came up in the late 90s/early 00s would have started their development in Czechoslovakia before the breakup. The kids we're watching the last couple years and this year have played the vast majority or all of their developmental hockey in Slovakia. Does that have anything to do with the struggles in the developmental system?

Even when Slovakia had a who is who of NHL all stars in the top tournaments they had terrible depth after thoose players. Like 10 big stars in the NHL up front, and a bunch of avg farm players after them.

No doubt Slovakia won't have that edge in the future, but thats how it is for small countrys. Its the same for us Swedes, at one time we had Forsberg and Näslund leading the league in scoring, Foppa winning the Hart, Lidström winning the Norris, Sundin carrying Toronto on his shoulders and Alfie also playing a major role. We will have 5 great players in the future too, but it will probably take a long time before we have a Norris Trophy winner and Hart and Art trophy winner in the same era. If you look at some year groups in Sweden they are just terrible, string a few of thoose together and we would be on par with Germany and Co. Sweden in avg produces only one good-great NHL player every 4-5 years, between thoose years guys like Alex Steen are the top of their classes.

Gaborik and Hossa are two big time talents, and Slovakia will keep producing players like that every once in a while, but I do not think they in avg will be a better hockeynation then the Finns for example.

I don't think their program are worse now then it were before, its just that they had a great stretch there, just like the Czech actually -- who haven't produced a big star in a very long time.

This is pretty much Germany's best team in years, the talent drops off considerably for the next few years. Even if they made it past this round, they should be back to their usual routine from next year on.

How are hockey in Germany these days? Would be great for the game if Germany and the Swiss could "take off" and atleast joing Slovakia and Finland too even out the field some.

The Slovak team that was in halifax in 2003 was awful. It was small, it was slow, it had little creativity, it had poor puckhandling D and a goalie that could not make a big save. That team still got to the QF though. This Slovak version may well taste Div 1 which would be a shame. Who knows though- thery may play through it.

how did tomas marciinko look out there

What I feared would happen will happen. We will fall into the B category unless we beat Finland and Belarus (assuming we lose to CAN and the US but that is almost certain).

The state of our junior hockey system here is just atrocius.

It seems like some countries go through down years. For a while Sweden could never get past the round robin. Other countries might finally be able to catch up

I don't think it's going to get any easier in the future either. While many experts have been forcasting that the USA will become a dominant hockey power, Germany has also been a sleeping giant.

I wouldn't call them a sleeping giant. They keep getting relegated at least Switzerland has hung around for a while. It's not just Germany though, there are other countries who come up and win games.

I wouldn't call them a sleeping giant. They keep getting relegated at least Switzerland has hung around for a while. It's not just Germany though, there are other countries who come up and win games.

That is why I have a problem with punting two teams back down to DiV 1. Germany and Belarus have shown they are a cut above Div 1 , they need to push themselves agianst the best. A move to 12 teams is going to happen. Others are going to kick the ceiling until they punch through. Denmark/Latvia/ Norway/ Austria are the next tier waiting to establish themselves.

That is why I have a problem with punting two teams back down to DiV 1. Germany and Belarus have shown they are a cut above Div 1 , they need to push themselves agianst the best. A move to 12 teams is going to happen. Others are going to kick the ceiling until they punch through. Denmark/Latvia/ Norway/ Austria are the next tier waiting to establish themselves.
The last thing this tournament needs is 12 teams. Instead of adding two countries that won't be able to compete, and will move in and out of relegation on an annual basis, the IIHF needs to revamp the relegation process.

Two-team relegation is a relatively new process. For the first few years, you had one team being relegated. (Slovakia finished ninth in 2000 and remained in the tournament).

The current relegation format stinks. Teams are promoted based on the previous year, which causes situations like France in 2002. They had one player eligible to return from the team that won the qualifying bracket. Instead, have the bottom two teams from this year's tournament face the top two teams from the qualifying bracket in a round robin early next season. Not during this season. The top two teams qualify for the tournament. Or have a best of three tournament between the No. 10 team and the top qualifier. Germany and Belarus will remain in the tournament, and the other nations can develop their programs.

Austria still isn't ready. Put them in the big tournament, and they get shelled. Same with Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Latvia and Norway. We saw last year just how out of place Norway is. They aren't scratching the surface. They're five years away from being where Belarus and Germany are now. In five years, if they're good enough to be competitive, then I have no problem with adding two teams. But the competitive balance must be maintained. The tournament doesn't need another France 2002 or Japan 1993.

This is a tournament, not a charity case. You can't just promote teams for the sake of promoting them. Having two teams that have zero chance to win, and usually lose by five to 10 goals, is not in the best interest of the tournament.

The last thing this tournament needs is 12 teams. Instead of adding two countries that won't be able to compete, and will move in and out of relegation on an annual basis, the IIHF needs to revamp the relegation process.

Two-team relegation is a relatively new process. For the first few years, you had one team being relegated. (Slovakia finished ninth in 2000 and remained in the tournament).

The current relegation format stinks. Teams are promoted based on the previous year, which causes situations like France in 2002. They had one player eligible to return from the team that won the qualifying bracket. Instead, have the bottom two teams from this year's tournament face the top two teams from the qualifying bracket in a round robin early next season. Not during this season. The top two teams qualify for the tournament. Or have a best of three tournament between the No. 10 team and the top qualifier. Germany and Belarus will remain in the tournament, and the other nations can develop their programs.

Austria still isn't ready. Put them in the big tournament, and they get shelled. Same with Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Latvia and Norway. We saw last year just how out of place Norway is. They aren't scratching the surface. They're five years away from being where Belarus and Germany are now. In five years, if they're good enough to be competitive, then I have no problem with adding two teams. But the competitive balance must be maintained. The tournament doesn't need another France 2002 or Japan 1993.

This is a tournament, not a charity case. You can't just promote teams for the sake of promoting them. Having two teams that have zero chance to win, and usually lose by five to 10 goals, is not in the best interest of the tournament.

I am up for a playoff.

What I feared would happen will happen. We will fall into the B category unless we beat Finland and Belarus (assuming we lose to CAN and the US but that is almost certain).

The state of our junior hockey system here is just atrocius.Many people have to understand here that Slovakia is a step below Canada, US, Sweden, Russia, Finland and the Czechs at the U20 level. They are at the level of Switzerland, and just slightly ahead of Germany and Belarus. Just because they are a force at the Senior level does not neccessarily make them at the U20 level.

Issues with Slovakia include

The Slovaks have a low number of registered players compared to the rest of the Top-6, and less than nations such as France and Japan - making it hard to consistently come up with good players in an age-restricted event.
The Slovak economy is not as strong compared to other nations, meaning that less money is available to fund hockey.
Many Slovak clubs neglects junior hockey, leaving the junior players little practise time
Many Slovak clubs ignore their junior players, forcing them to play elsewhere. Slovan Bratislava, the premier team through the years, has made a tradition of omitting junior players from its roster.
Only 4 players from Slovakia drafted in the 2006 NHL Entry Draft, and the first was late in the 3rd round (115th overall).
At the November 4-nations U-20 tourney at Fussen, Slovakia lost to Norway, Switzerland and Germany!

Those talented Slovaks who came up in the late 90s/early 00s would have started their development in Czechoslovakia before the breakup. The kids we're watching the last couple years and this year have played the vast majority or all of their developmental hockey in Slovakia. Does that have anything to do with the struggles in the developmental system?

Thats the thing. During socialism, training was free. Kids got things from the clubs, now they have to buy them and many families cant afford that. We wouldnt have had Palffy as he came from a poor family and he would now be a cook somewhere as thats what he studied in high school.

Also the coaches at the top level seem to be always the same and the training methods seem to be out of date. Thirdly, the funding of the junior Leagues and the organization is horrible. If it was decent, we wouldnt have every half decent Slovak go to the CHL ASAP.

Even when Slovakia had a who is who of NHL all stars in the top tournaments they had terrible depth after thoose players. Like 10 big stars in the NHL up front, and a bunch of avg farm players after them.

No doubt Slovakia won't have that edge in the future, but thats how it is for small countrys. Its the same for us Swedes, at one time we had Forsberg and Näslund leading the league in scoring, Foppa winning the Hart, Lidström winning the Norris, Sundin carrying Toronto on his shoulders and Alfie also playing a major role. We will have 5 great players in the future too, but it will probably take a long time before we have a Norris Trophy winner and Hart and Art trophy winner in the same era. If you look at some year groups in Sweden they are just terrible, string a few of thoose together and we would be on par with Germany and Co. Sweden in avg produces only one good-great NHL player every 4-5 years, between thoose years guys like Alex Steen are the top of their classes.

Gaborik and Hossa are two big time talents, and Slovakia will keep producing players like that every once in a while, but I do not think they in avg will be a better hockeynation then the Finns for example.

I don't think their program are worse now then it were before, its just that they had a great stretch there, just like the Czech actually -- who haven't produced a big star in a very long time.
Well, the Czechs have Olesz and Smid amongst youngsters and have Frolik and Jakub Voracek coming up. We only had like 3 players selected last year in the Draft (or 4, not sure).

It seems like some countries go through down years. For a while Sweden could never get past the round robin. Other countries might finally be able to catch up
But I doubt Sweden was relegated. To add even more, in Sweden hockey is played everywhere. Here, hockey is played like nowhere amongst normal boys.

Many people have to understand here that Slovakia is a step below Canada, US, Sweden, Russia, Finland and the Czechs at the U20 level. They are at the level of Switzerland, and just slightly ahead of Germany and Belarus. Just because they are a force at the Senior level does not neccessarily make them at the U20 level.

Issues with Slovakia include

The Slovaks have a low number of registered players compared to the rest of the Top-6, and less than nations such as France and Japan - making it hard to consistently come up with good players in an age-restricted event.
The Slovak economy is not as strong compared to other nations, meaning that less money is available to fund hockey.
Many Slovak clubs neglects junior hockey, leaving the junior players little practise time
Many Slovak clubs ignore their junior players, forcing them to play elsewhere. Slovan Bratislava, the premier team through the years, has made a tradition of omitting junior players from its roster.
Only 4 players from Slovakia drafted in the 2006 NHL Entry Draft, and the first was late in the 3rd round (115th overall).
At the November 4-nations U-20 tourney at Fussen, Slovakia lost to Norway, Switzerland and Germany!

So true, all of those facts. We have a small base. If people think about it, having 30 NHL-ers is a great ratio to the number of registered players we have.