|
|
Now that we have Roberto Luongo for at least 4 years... why not keep him for more, a la Martin Brodeur. I know that Schneider is one of our top prospects, but do you think that we should trade him or keep him around. People have been saying keep him around and then when Roberto's contract is up make him the starter. I disagree, look how long it has taken us to get a marquee goaltender. We have ours.. someone else out there is looking for a Cory Schneider type goaltender.
Now I am also a fan of Brendan Morrison, but if he starts out a little slow, do we package a deal .. Morrison and Schneider for early round draft picks or to just save cap room for one if not two stretch dive players??
What are your thoughts?
sticknrink 10-05-2006, 03:14 PM Schnieder will take roughly four years to develop into a starter. We're at an advantage because we dont' have to rush him.
He'll finish out his year in the NCAA and graduate.
The next two seasons will be in the AHL/Moose getting used to pro shooters.
The next season will be backup to Luongo.
Doesn't seem like a problem to me ...
I say keep him for now. Who knows what can happen in the next 4 years. It's good to have some goaltending depth. If it turns out that Luongo is still awesome 4 years from now and we lock him up for longer then chances are Schneider's value will be higher by that time and we can maybe move him then. But for now let him develop....
My problem is we know we have franchise goaltender in Luongo. Sure Schnieder is a top prospect, but NOTHING says hes going to be a good goaltender in the NHL.
True could be, but why not get something for him now in terms of an offensive first round pic while his value is high. If he ends up being a flop, we wasted a first round pick. I don't think we saw ourselves with Luongo when we drafted him.
Nalyd Psycho 10-05-2006, 03:27 PM Procpect goalies have marginal value. So there are two situation.
1) Team looks like a serious contender at the deadline, use him as a key to a deadline deal.
2) Let him stay in NCAA as long as he needs, then give him a few years in the AHL, then let him back-up Luongo and see what he proves.
19nazzy 10-05-2006, 03:29 PM You can never have too many good young goalies.
galiano 10-05-2006, 03:29 PM Schnieder will take roughly four years to develop into a starter. We're at an advantage because we dont' have to rush him.
He'll finish out his year in the NCAA and graduate.
The next two seasons will be in the AHL/Moose getting used to pro shooters.
The next season will be backup to Luongo.
Doesn't seem like a problem to me ...
Schneider is not a senior at Boston College. He is a junior and he has this year and next in school if he so chooses. You have to think that the Canucks would want him to stay in school until he graduates which is 2 years from now.
Impossibles 10-05-2006, 03:32 PM You can never have too many good young goalies.
Agree 100%. Much like pitching in baseball. If the time comes when Cory is ready to be a starter, we can deal him then because his value will be highest.
19nazzy 10-05-2006, 03:33 PM Agree 100%. Much like pitching in baseball. If the time comes when Cory is ready to be a starter, we can deal him then because his value will be highest.
Yep and especially in Vancouver. It's not like we're a top goalie prospect machine here...
Bobby Lou 10-05-2006, 03:37 PM Are you joking?
We have absolutely no motivation to move Schneider at all. Unless he was part of blockbuster trade or something, I see no reason at all to move the kid. He's developing well, and is probably 4-5 years away from making an impact in the NHL anyways. Given if he has a bad season or two his value may plummet, but I don't really see that happening with him. And if he replaces Luongo all the better. Then we won't be paying our goaltender 7+ million, and can use that space to fill other gaps in the roster. If Schneider falls through, we can always look at keeping Luongo around after his 4 years are up. I think we're in a pretty ideal situation, as we've got two possible back-ups in Ellis/Vincent currently on the farm as well.
I still firmly believe Schneider will be the goaltender of the future in Vancouver. His mental game is probably his greatest strength, and he has the physical package to go along with it. I am pretty confident Schneider will develop into an impact goaltender. And if not, we have Luongo.:D
VanCity Millionaires 10-05-2006, 03:38 PM You can never have too many good young goalies.
I'll second that. :handclap:
Are you joking?
We have absolutely no motivation to move Schneider at all. Unless he was part of blockbuster trade or something, I see no reason at all to move the kid.
.:D
I never said trade him for a bag of pucks... I believe that if Morrison has another sub par season heading into the Christmas break that we will package the two of them and get a future pick or a solid second liner..
sticknrink 10-05-2006, 03:44 PM Schneider is not a senior at Boston College. He is a junior and he has this year and next in school if he so chooses. You have to think that the Canucks would want him to stay in school until he graduates which is 2 years from now.
Ah, I thought he was a senior.
Well let him stay two years in the NCAA and graduate, then one-two years in the A and go from there.
Jyrki21 10-05-2006, 03:48 PM I have a sneaking suspicion that around year 2 of the Luongo deal, Nonis will give into temptation and use Schneider as a bargaining chip in a sizable deal.
myrocketsgotcracked 10-05-2006, 03:49 PM i don't think nonis is actively shopping him, but if a team is willing to offer us a good offensive player (specially one that can play with the sedins long term), then i think nonis should at least consider it.
otherwise, keep him around for now.
Cocoa Crisp 10-05-2006, 03:51 PM It's somewhat analogous to Carolina moving Jack Johnson except that the two teams are in entirely different boats.
Vancouver, unlike Carolina, doesn't feel the need to press for a strong run at the cup - in fact, many 'experts' are predicting that we will miss the playoffs altogether. Rutherford felt his team needs a d-man now and not 1-2 years from now (I think this will ultimately prove to be a bad move).
In addition, Schneider's trade value is no where near Johnson's.
I would be very upset with Nonis if he dealt Cory, barring an extremely lopsided (in our favor) deal.
You can never have too many good young goalies.
Yes, look at San Jose
Victory Ali* 10-05-2006, 06:13 PM The nice thing is that we don't have to think about this right now.
Didn't New Jersey have a similar situation with Ari... what's his name? The Finish goaltender? He was pretty highly prized for awhile I think.
My feelings on this are that if Luongo is as good as we hope he is and as good as his hype, why not intergrate him into the organization where the Canucks are Luongo and Luongo is the Canucks, similar to what New Jersey has done with Brodeur. And if when Schneider is ready for prime time we still have Luongo as a key and happy member of the team, we can always deal Corey to plug whatever holes we have at the moment.
mfzero 10-05-2006, 06:14 PM The nice thing is that we don't have to think about this right now.
Didn't New Jersey have a similar situation with Ari... what's his name? The Finish goaltender? He was pretty highly prized for awhile I think.
My feelings on this are that if Luongo is as good as we hope he is and as good as his hype, why not intergrate him into the organization where the Canucks are Luongo and Luongo is the Canucks, similar to what New Jersey has done with Brodeur. And if when Schneider is ready for prime time we still have Luongo as a key and happy member of the team, we can always deal Corey to plug whatever holes we have at the moment.
Ari Ahonen
Rover* 10-05-2006, 06:15 PM I say keep him around, just on the slight possibility that luongo tries to pronger us in the future.
Whingman 10-05-2006, 06:19 PM Unless the LA kings come knocking on our door and say would you guys like Anze Kopitar and Dustin Brown, we really like vancouver's reject goalies, I see no reason to make a trade. Schnieders value will be at its highest after he plays in the NHL, if we want to trade him then, perfect, we can grab alot of talent for a promising young NHL Goalie. Right now we have a promising young Goalie Prospect, in other words, teams just wont give us enough to deal him. If he turns out ot be a bust so what, it won't be the first time it has happened. Atleast we can claim goalies are risky and develop differently, where as Nathan smith we all just shake our heads and ask why.
I say keep him around, just on the slight possibility that luongo tries to pronger us in the future.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that also. Especially when reading how Luongo's wife was freaked out about leaving her very close Italian-American family in Florida for the first time in her life. Wouldn't give that a second thought except for the potential parallels with the Pronger situation. Hockey people talk about removing excuses for poor performance, etc, and we now know that a supposedly unhappy spouse can be the excuse to head elsewhere. The precedent has been set (if it hadn't been before--like with Pavel in some ways though not uxorious).
Not even remotely suggesting that Luongo wants to break his contract and get out. But a no-trade clause clearly binds management only. In case of defection as well as disablement, it would be prudent to have a good young goalie like Schneider waiting in the wings.
LeftCoast 10-05-2006, 09:32 PM We now have quite a number of good quality young goal tenders but none of them have really peaked in value - maybe Noronen.
We still need a goalie of the future in our system and at this point, Cory Schneider is the best we have. He needs to finish this year at Boston College, then spend at least a year in Manitoba, and possibly get a call up for a game or so. Then - spend a year backing up Luongo. If he performs to expectations at each of these levels - then he will really be worth something.
At that point, we can make a choice - do we resign Luongo or let him walk, spend the cap space a big centre or defenseman and throw Schneider in with a vetran guy to back him up. If we resign Luongo, we can probably trade Schneider at that point for some real value.
At the same time, we also have Ellis, Vincent MacIntyre and maybe even Sabourin in the system. You never know who is going to emerge as the best of this bunch. Right now, we couldn't get much for any of these guys.
sticknrink 10-05-2006, 09:49 PM Yeah, I've been thinking about that also. Especially when reading how Luongo's wife was freaked out about leaving her very close Italian-American family in Florida for the first time in her life. Wouldn't give that a second thought except for the potential parallels with the Pronger situation. Hockey people talk about removing excuses for poor performance, etc, and we now know that a supposedly unhappy spouse can be the excuse to head elsewhere. The precedent has been set (if it hadn't been before--like with Pavel in some ways though not uxorious).
Not even remotely suggesting that Luongo wants to break his contract and get out. But a no-trade clause clearly binds management only. In case of defection as well as disablement, it would be prudent to have a good young goalie like Schneider waiting in the wings.
At 28m for four years, I think Roberto can afford to bring some family in to his new Yaletown penthouse.
Sedongo 10-05-2006, 09:56 PM we defeniatly have to keep him around. give him time to work on his game and hopefuley be a superstar then we can trade him or use him depending on luongo's play.
myrocketsgotcracked 10-06-2006, 04:14 AM We still need a goalie of the future in our system and at this point, Cory Schneider is the best we have. He needs to finish this year at Boston College, then spend at least a year in Manitoba, and possibly get a call up for a game or so. Then - spend a year backing up Luongo. If he performs to expectations at each of these levels - then he will really be worth something.
even if he proves a capable backup to luongo, i wonder how much more his trade value improves. backup goalies generally don't carry too much value (even good ones like kippersoff was only worth a 2nd rounder).
AgentNaslund* 10-06-2006, 04:22 AM LIke the other posters said. A goalie will not reach number 1 potential until 25. Hes 20. He has another 5 years of developement. The quicker he developes, the better for us. Canucks will hang on to him. Nonis will not dick around with goalies like Brian Burke. Nonis will hang on to Schneider. I love having underrated prospects. I still recall a gm trying to pull a fast on on nonis.... Eric Fehr for Schneider?
anyways, we will hang on to him. Unless a blow us out of our shoes type of trade is offered to us.
chapel113x 10-06-2006, 01:50 PM It's way too early to be adressing this. Schneider isn't even an NHL back-up yet, let alone a starter. And Luongo's contract isn't going to be up for another 4 years. So many things can happen in 4 years and i'm just happy to have a goalie like Luongo for the time being.
LeftCoast 10-06-2006, 01:50 PM even if he proves a capable backup to luongo, i wonder how much more his trade value improves. backup goalies generally don't carry too much value (even good ones like kippersoff was only worth a 2nd rounder).
An interesting situation arises however if he ends up being too good to be a backup AND Luongo indicates he wants an extension or to resign. It's higher risk to let Luongo walk in 4 years and take the $7M in cap space than to trade Schneider for a 1st rounder. It's debatable what is worth more - $7M in cap space or a 1st rounder.
PecaFan 10-06-2006, 03:34 PM An interesting situation arises however if he ends up being too good to be a backup AND Luongo indicates he wants an extension or to resign.
Since they haven't drafted even *one* goalie in 35 years that was better than a backup, I'm sure it's a problem the team will live with.
He should be in the AHL now. The fact that we couldn't sign him this summer isn't a good sign.
Letting good prospects play their full 4 years in college and graduate is *not* an option. If he plays his full 4 years, he becomes an UFA 3 months after graduating, on August 15/08. And our chances of signing him would be minimal, since he'd have nothing to lose by testing the market and likely ending up closer to home in an organization that doesn't have a Luongo.
The 'UFA upon graduation' loophole is 100x worse than the Van Ryn loophole under the old CBA. Same reason Johnson was likely dealt, and why I don't think we'll ever see him play a game for the Kings.
If we can get a scoring forward prospect for Schneider, I do it without thinking twice. Dustin Brown for Schneider? Done in a heartbeat.
If he doesn't sign next summer, we'll end up losing him for just a compensatory pick.
He should be in the AHL now. The fact that we couldn't sign him this summer isn't a good sign.
Letting good prospects play their full 4 years in college and graduate is *not* an option. If he plays his full 4 years, he becomes an UFA 3 months after graduating, on August 15/08. And our chances of signing him would be minimal, since he'd have nothing to lose by testing the market and likely ending up closer to home in an organization that doesn't have a Luongo.
The 'UFA upon graduation' loophole is 100x worse than the Van Ryn loophole under the old CBA. Same reason Johnson was likely dealt, and why I don't think we'll ever see him play a game for the Kings.
If we can get a scoring forward prospect for Schneider, I do it without thinking twice. Dustin Brown for Schneider? Done in a heartbeat.
If he doesn't sign next summer, we'll end up losing him for just a compensatory pick.
:handclap: Ding ding ding... Lets trade him and get something that can help us now rather than 4 or 5 years down the road.
Rover* 10-06-2006, 05:34 PM I saw we follow the islanders plan and trade luongo and sign Cory to a 15 year contract.:sarcasm:
|
|