I like the Ducks ALOT, but...

... I really question the depth on defense...

I think this is a team that is going to have to make another deal sooner rather than later.

Niedermayer and Pronger are certainly a strong 1-2, but as much as I like Beauchemin and Dipenta, and as much NHL experience as O'Donnell and Moran have... that's NOT a 3 through 6 that inspires me to think Cup.

O'Brien, Rome, St. Jacques... well, I like O'Brien, but I'd rather see a guy like Moran be #7 and have the Ducks go out and barter for a solid veteran guy who could be a defensive defenseman that can eat 15-18 minutes a game.

Anyone care to agree? disagree?

Except Niedermayer and Pronger can play the whole game. 30 minutes each.

Except Niedermayer and Pronger can play the whole game. 30 minutes each.

Haven't seen evidence of this yet. This post (http://battleofcalifornia.blogspot.com/2006/09/niedermayer-and-pronger-initial.html) breaks down their ice time through the first two appearances (not including last night's game). Looks to be a little less than 2/3 of the game, so far.

Keeping Vishnevski would certainly have made the depth more impressive, but I'm not sure it's a particular downfall of this team. We'll have to see once we actually dress whatever turns out to be our "top 6".

Well it's pre-season...

Me = Not worried until we play some regular season games with our real defense playing real minutes

Haven't seen evidence of this yet. This post (http://battleofcalifornia.blogspot.com/2006/09/niedermayer-and-pronger-initial.html) breaks down their ice time through the first two appearances (not including last night's game). Looks to be a little less than 2/3 of the game, so far.

Keeping Vishnevski would certainly have made the depth more impressive, but I'm not sure it's a particular downfall of this team. We'll have to see once we actually dress whatever turns out to be our "top 6".

No need to play them 30 mins each in preseason. I figure that in the season one of them will be on the ice at all times, maybe giving them a rest when the team gets a good lead.

Here's how I'm seeing it. Right now this team, with it's limited depth on defense, is good enough to make the playoffs and challenge for the divisional crown. Barring any major season-altering injuries, heading into the trade deadline the Ducks should be within striking distance of a top-3 seed. Its at that point where we can go out and pick up a solid, veteran top-4 type of defenseman that will bolster our depth. I don't really want to go into the playoffs with this group of d-men, but I think it's fine for the first half of the season.

Hey I promise you pretty much every team in the league would trade places with you guys.

Scotty and Beauch is a great d-pairing and Prongs and OD will be extremely solid and DiPenta and Moran/rookie will be just as good as DiPenta and Vish from last season. Our D is fine, it's better than fine it's great. Scotty was able to make our whole team better last year, Pronger was able to make his whole team better as well. Having both of them along with Beauch and OD gives us the best d-core we've ever had. Coupled with the two goalies we have, keeping the puck out shouldn't be our biggest concern. Special teams is the only thing that's still a question mark on this team and the potential for those to be great is there as well.

... I really question the depth on defense...

I think this is a team that is going to have to make another deal sooner rather than later.

Niedermayer and Pronger are certainly a strong 1-2, but as much as I like Beauchemin and Dipenta, and as much NHL experience as O'Donnell and Moran have... that's NOT a 3 through 6 that inspires me to think Cup.

O'Brien, Rome, St. Jacques... well, I like O'Brien, but I'd rather see a guy like Moran be #7 and have the Ducks go out and barter for a solid veteran guy who could be a defensive defenseman that can eat 15-18 minutes a game.

Anyone care to agree? disagree?

I think you vastly under-rate Beauchemin. O'Donnell is certainly adequate when paired with Pronger.

Assuming they both stay healthy, I'd say for about 50 of the 60 minutes, either Niedermayer or Pronger will be on the ice.

I can't do cartwheels over the depth guys (5th, 6th and 7th), but, at this juncture, name all the defensive units in the NHL that you like better than ours. (I'm not saying there aren't any.)

Scotty and Beauch is a great d-pairing and Prongs and OD will be extremely solid and DiPenta and Moran/rookie will be just as good as DiPenta and Vish from last season. Our D is fine, it's better than fine it's great.

But you have to take an injury or two or three as a given. That puts Rome and/or St Jacques into the lineup at some point. A little scary. If it gets that bad I'd expect Burke to go get another defenseman mid season. Seems like Shannon and Brent will allow him to have enough forward dpeth to swing a deal so I don't think its a critical problem.

The Ducks are definitely missing a top 4 guy. It sounds like O'Donnell will get the ice time but I see him more a 5-6 guy at his age. Dipenta is the perfect #6 while moran can fill in at the 5-6 position. O'brien is someone who I think the Ducks can groom to be a #4 guy but is he ready? I don't know. I know someone mentioned Vish but the guy fits better at a third pairing guy. I wouldn't trust Vish to play top pairing minutes with Pronger. So, yeah the defense has a hole but you can say that about every team in the league.

I think our 3rd pairing should be good enough to hold other team's 4th lines. Those are the times (when the opposing 4th lines are out) that both Pronger and Nieds should get a rest. Or maybe have multiple pairings to toss out, for instance say Moran and Dipenta make it, this could be rolled out in this order:
Nieds-Beauch
Pronger-OD
Nieds-Dipenta
Pronger-Moran
Beauch-OD (to give Pronger and Nieds a break, and I think the two of them would be adequate together against 3rd and maybe 2nd lines)

And have Moran-Dipenta occationally against 4th lines.

I think our 3rd pairing should be good enough to hold other team's 4th lines. Those are the times (when the opposing 4th lines are out) that both Pronger and Nieds should get a rest. Or maybe have multiple pairings to toss out, for instance say Moran and Dipenta make it, this could be rolled out in this order:
Nieds-Beauch
Pronger-OD
Nieds-Dipenta
Pronger-Moran
Beauch-OD (to give Pronger and Nieds a break, and I think the two of them would be adequate together against 3rd and maybe 2nd lines)

And have Moran-Dipenta occationally against 4th lines.

It won't work like that. At even strength, Carlyle will roll out three pairs evenly. Scotty and Prongs will eat up a lot of their minutes on special teams too. Scotty or Prongs will be on the ice for 2/3 of all even strength shifts and probably 2/3 of all speical teams minutes. OD is a solid d-man and Dipenta and Moran will do the job just fine.

I think you vastly under-rate Beauchemin.

How so? I believe I said "As much as I really like..."

The fact is, he will basically be a second year NHL player, and one who has spent virtually his entire first year paired with arguably the best or second best defenseman in the NHL :) I do like the guy and have seen enough of him to consider him dependable offensively and more than adequate defensively, but... am I ready to give him a "career" in the NHL? No. Not yet. It's really hard to say that someone who has done something for less than 100 NHL games and in three organizations is ready to repeat his solid performance year in and year out.

I just think there's still a need that may end up being filled at the deadline, but realistically should possibly be addressed sooner.

I also look at the depth chart and don't see a ton of help (from within) on the horizon.

It's all good though... I'm still expecting big things from this team on the whole.

Well it would have been great to have smid right now and let him develop into the #4 spot but that was the price of getting pronger.

I'm not sure moving Vish was a great move either, but thats in the past.

I'd like to see Caryle give one of the young kids a chance to play the #4 spot like we did with Beuchemein and let him develop.

Play Odonnel and Dipenta in the 5 & 6 spots (wow did I really say that). Let them play about 15-20 minutes per games against the other team's 3rd/4th lines.

This way we don't overuse Niedermayer and Pronger early in the season and they'll be well rested by playoff time.

How so? I believe I said "As much as I really like..."

The fact is, he will basically be a second year NHL player, and one who has spent virtually his entire first year paired with arguably the best or second best defenseman in the NHL :) I do like the guy and have seen enough of him to consider him dependable offensively and more than adequate defensively, but... am I ready to give him a "career" in the NHL? No. Not yet. It's really hard to say that someone who has done something for less than 100 NHL games and in three organizations is ready to repeat his solid performance year in and year out.

I just think there's still a need that may end up being filled at the deadline, but realistically should possibly be addressed sooner.

I also look at the depth chart and don't see a ton of help (from within) on the horizon.

It's all good though... I'm still expecting big things from this team on the whole.


I like Mikkelson and Festerling.

Mikkelson has the acceleration and top end speed to make the big team in 2-3 years. If his hands were to catch up to his feet then lookout. Remember, he is still recovering from an ACL injury that kept him out most of last season. He is not yet 100%. He is not overly physical at this point but at 6'3" he has the frame to throw his weight around. He has great vision and hockey sense and could run the 2nd line PP. He's only 19.

Festerling is not flashy or overly offensive minded but he is a solid defensive dman. I noticed a big increase in his strength and skating since the end of last season. He plays a hard hitting defensive minded game and makes a great first pass. He would probably be in Portland now if not for Burkes ties to Vancouver and Vancouver hosting the memorial cup this year. I guess it could be called a favor to Vancouvers head coach Don Hay and Giants ownership.

Haven't seen evidence of this yet. This post (http://battleofcalifornia.blogspot.com/2006/09/niedermayer-and-pronger-initial.html) breaks down their ice time through the first two appearances (not including last night's game). Looks to be a little less than 2/3 of the game, so far.

Keeping Vishnevski would certainly have made the depth more impressive, but I'm not sure it's a particular downfall of this team. We'll have to see once we actually dress whatever turns out to be our "top 6".
They aren't going to log heavy minutes in pre-season..the anaheim top 3 is as good as it gets. O'Donnell is fine as a 4th or 5th dmen and I feel that if O'Brien plays with Pronger he'll do really well. Burke will not hesitate to make a move mid-season if he has concerns I think we'll go with what we have now and address weaknesses as the season goes on.

I like Mikkelson and Festerling.

Mikkelson has the acceleration and top end speed to make the big team in 2-3 years. If his hands were to catch up to his feet then lookout. Remember, he is still recovering from an ACL injury that kept him out most of last season. He is not yet 100%. He is not overly physical at this point but at 6'3" he has the frame to throw his weight around. He has great vision and hockey sense and could run the 2nd line PP. He's only 19.

Festerling is not flashy or overly offensive minded but he is a solid defensive dman. I noticed a big increase in his strength and skating since the end of last season. He plays a hard hitting defensive minded game and makes a great first pass. He would probably be in Portland now if not for Burkes ties to Vancouver and Vancouver hosting the memorial cup this year. I guess it could be called a favor to Vancouvers head coach Don Hay and Giants ownership.
To follow up your point on Mikkelson the coaching staff was apparently very pleased with him during training camp.

To follow up your point on Mikkelson the coaching staff was apparently very pleased with him during training camp.
Yes, indeed. Brendan was also getting a lot of one-on-one direction and coaching. (And in a positive way...not the censored tirade that Bobby got.:amazed:)

Can't wait to see some more of this kid!

One of the very few downsides to having two of the best defenders in the league is that it leaves little room (cap-wise and TOI-wise) to fill the rest of the back-end. If the team is looking good at the trade deadline, I think that Burke will look to add a veteran, but probably not before that. If he gets someone sooner rather than later, I think that it'll be someone cheap, perhaps off of the waiver wire in the next few weeks.

Last year's Roster in Defense
Scotty - Beauch
Rusty - Vish
Carney(O'Donnell) - DiPenta
________ (i forgot who the extra was if there was one?)

This year's Roster in Defense
Scotty - Beauch
Prongs - O'Brien/Moran
DiPenta - O'Donnell

So what are we complaining about???

Subtract Vish and Rusty... Add in Prongs and does it matter...

Is there really a "but" necessary when comparing the two line-ups? ::: shrugging shoulders :::

But you have to take an injury or two or three as a given. That puts Rome and/or St Jacques into the lineup at some point. A little scary. If it gets that bad I'd expect Burke to go get another defenseman mid season. Seems like Shannon and Brent will allow him to have enough forward dpeth to swing a deal so I don't think its a critical problem.
It's only scary if one of the injuries is to Pronger or Niedermayer. Otherwise it's easily covered up.

Anaheim is the one team in the league that can easily handle an injury to an elite defenseman; there's another one already here.

Last year's Roster in Defense
Scotty - Beauch
Rusty - Vish
Carney(O'Donnell) - DiPenta
________ (i forgot who the extra was if there was one?)

This year's Roster in Defense
Scotty - Beauch
Prongs - O'Brien/Moran
DiPenta - O'Donnell

So what are we complaining about???

Subtract Vish and Rusty... Add in Prongs and does it matter...

Is there really a "but" necessary when comparing the two line-ups? ::: shrugging shoulders :::
The extra body was Marshall.

I agree, Buffalo were looking good in the playoffs last year until injuries hit and then you really saw where defensive depth is important.

Beauchemin
O'Donnell
Moran
DiPenta
O'Brien
St. Jaques

THEY ARE NOT BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

our depth on d is better then alot of teams in the league.

I didn't say "BAD" - but I think "depth" is a huge concern...

Bruno St. Jacques hasn't been much of a depth guy on anyone's radar...

Anaheim's depth on D is the least of their problems.

It's only scary if one of the injuries is to Pronger or Niedermayer. Otherwise it's easily covered up.

I don't know about easily covered up, but certainly an injury to any of the #3-6 defensemen is going to affect the Ducks less than it would a team that relies on going 6 deep, rather than on high end talent.

Anaheim is the one team in the league that can easily handle an injury to an elite defenseman; there's another one already here.

Yeah, when Niedermayer had that knee problem last year I was worried that the entire season was done for. At least now, even if we lose one elite guy we could still tread water for a while.

I agree, Buffalo were looking good in the playoffs last year until injuries hit and then you really saw where defensive depth is important.

You'd be hard pressed to find a team that could do well in spite of the number of defensive injuries Buffalo had last year.

Anaheim's depth on D is the least of their problems.
Meaning...

Well it would have been great to have smid right now and let him develop into the #4 spot but that was the price of getting pronger.

I'm not sure moving Vish was a great move either, but thats in the past.

I'd like to see Caryle give one of the young kids a chance to play the #4 spot like we did with Beuchemein and let him develop.

Play Odonnel and Dipenta in the 5 & 6 spots (wow did I really say that). Let them play about 15-20 minutes per games against the other team's 3rd/4th lines.

This way we don't overuse Niedermayer and Pronger early in the season and they'll be well rested by playoff time.


I totally agree. with putting OD in the 5th spot and allowing a younger kid develop with Pronger (similar to what they did with Beach last year). Pronger can cover up many deficiencies. The 3rd pairing would become stronger with OD there.

Anaheim's depth on D is the least of their problems.

and you're implying what....?

and you're implying what....?

That our offense is most likely going to struggle far more than our defense.

Don't see why it would.

That our offense is most likely going to struggle far more than our defense.

I was thinking the same thing earlier in the preseason, but I like how the young guys have come along. I know it's only preseason, but I'm happy on what I've seen so far.

and you're implying what....?

Im thinking he is talking about the immediate goaltending controversy problem

Im thinking he is talking about the immediate goaltending controversy problem

Nothing wrong with competition. Whoever plays the best starts, simple as that.

That our offense is most likely going to struggle far more than our defense.

What SO many people fail to realize is what wonders our 2 rocks on defense will do as far as outlet passing and making up for mistakes by our rookies. This defense will lead to offensive production. Mark my words.

It's only scary if one of the injuries is to Pronger or Niedermayer. Otherwise it's easily covered up.

Losing both O'Donnell and Beachemin would be just as bad. Joe DiPenta as our #3 and Ian Moran at #4.... yikes.

I like Mikkelson and Festerling.

And in two or three years you might see one on an NHL roster. I'm not sure I'd call them 'on the horizon' just yet.

Is there any team in the league who wouldn't prefer two D's of the Ducks star quality and their supporting cast than the "balanced" defense they already have? Would anyone trade one of the Ducks' $6-million defensemen for two who make $3-million each? Not likely. It's a nice problem to have.

Injuries? Anyone who pays a player in excess of $4-5-million is taking this risk, yet many do. Because the Ducks have two such defensemen lowers that risk; it doesn't increase it. The Ducks are no more exposed than any other team.

Injuries? The Ducks are no more exposed than any other team.

Which in no way means the Ducks shouldn't worry about it.

If any team lost their 1 and 2 Dmen they'd be screwed. There are enough pieces here to swing a trade, if we had to.

Our 5, 6, and 7 guys aren't ideal, but they're not garbage. We have two of the biggest minute-eating defensemen in the league; if they have to pick up some extra minutes, god knows they can.

Then tell me what happens if Blake or Vishnovski gets hurt, you'd be in the same situtation as us then. This goes the same for every other team in the league:D with the exception of Calgary:banghead: .

Then tell me what happens if Blake or Vishnovski gets hurt, you'd be in the same situtation as us then. This goes the same for every other team in the league:D with the exception of Calgary:banghead: .
Calgary without Phanuf or Reghr:help: