Would YOU do Ryan for Jack Johnson?

Johnson is on the block...would you give up Bobby Ryan to get him? Just out of curiosity.

Johnson is on the block...would you make give up Bobby Ryan to get him? Just out of curiosity.

I would. I think Johnson will be the next Pronger, and even though Ryan could be great, I think there's more of a chance that he wouldn't reach his potential then Johnson.

Johnson is on the block...would you make give up Bobby Ryan to get him? Just out of curiosity.

I would. I had hoped that the Ducks would draft Johnson instead of Ryan. The Canes wouldn't , they're asking for a defenseman that can step in. Who do we have that could do that (who the Ducks would be willing to part with)?

johnson wouldnt have to ask me to do ryan.

from what i've read, it seems like Johnson has rubbed a few organizations the wrong way while Ryan seems to be quite the opposite. I think I'd rather keep Johnson.

I would have loved to offer up Vish + a prospect for Johnson though, but that ship has sailed.

Our scouting staff picked Ryan over Johnson. Is there something that's happened in the interim to suggest they made the wrong decision?

The answer is: no. Our guy isn't on the block.

Yeah. Ryan can't skate. That's what happened.

I would do it...but Burke won't.

Johnson was number 2 on my draft board and I'd still rank him there now.

trade Ryan for Johnson and then let him play his sophomore season in the NCAA...and sign him next summer.

07-08:

Niedermayer-Beauchemin
Pronger-Johnson

:handclap:

Yeah. Ryan can't skate. That's what happened.

And Johnson won't skate, so that goes nowhere.

The question is if Ryan is what Carolina is looking for.

johnson wouldnt have to ask me to do ryan.

:biglaugh:

And Johnson won't skate, so that goes nowhere.
Johnson'll skate next season. Ryan will be still be a slug.

Our scouting staff picked Ryan over Johnson. Is there something that's happened in the interim to suggest they made the wrong decision?

The answer is: no. Our guy isn't on the block.

actually there is sign that it was a wrong decision if you are willing to look at it.

Jack Johnson reminds me of the following players:

Stanislav Chistov----basically walked away from the Ducks for two years to prove what point that'll endear him to our fanbase.

Ilya Bryzagalov----how many times must Ilya whine to the press and then claim he was misunderstood when things don't go the way he expects them to.

Alexander Semin---see Chistov but instead of Anaheim---Washington had to work over three years to get him back over to the NHL.

Does Johnson actually know anything about Carolina or their organization??????

Absolutely the correct choice to pick Bobby Ryan.

Jack Johnson reminds me of the following players:

Stanislav Chistov----basically walked away from the Ducks for two years to prove what point that'll endear him to our fanbase.

Ilya Bryzagalov----how many times must Ilya whine to the press and then claim he was misunderstood when things don't go the way he expects them to.

Alexander Semin---see Chistov but instead of Anaheim---Washington had to work over three years to get him back over to the NHL.

Does Johnson actually know anything about Carolina or their organization??????

Absolutely the correct choice to pick Bobby Ryan.

...

Wow.

I would love to have Johnson, and wouldn't mind giving up a guy like Bobby Ryan(under the right circumstances) to get him considering that even with him and Loops gone, our offensive depth is still quite good, I'm not sure I'd do it now. Johnson may just want his degree, but he's definetely come out of this quite badly, and it seems wierd for a guy to pass up playing on the defending cup champs. Ryan's treated this organization with class, and it really seems like he wants to be a Duck, so I think I'll keep the franchise player. I put my faith in our scouting staff and Mr.Brian Burke.

All of Burkie's moves have looked not that great from the beginning, and have gotten considerably better with time, so I'll give Ryan some time and we'll just have to wait and see.

I would, Burke won't because that'd be Burke admitting he made a mistake and his ego is too big to do so. If Burke was so sold on Ryans character, why is his conditioning/skating still an issue? Shouldn't there be improvements by now? From strictly a hockey standpoint, yeah i'd do it but I don't know much about Johnsons personality, I would also trade him for Brule.

I would as well. We already have PPG as our future top line. I just don't see where BR will fit.

I would, Burke won't because that'd be Burke admitting he made a mistake and his ego is too big to do so. If Burke was so sold on Ryans character, why is his conditioning/skating still an issue? Shouldn't there be improvements by now? From strictly a hockey standpoint, yeah i'd do it but I don't know much about Johnsons personality, I would also trade him for Brule.

I'm not certain that the Ducks, aside from the defensemen, have drafted a first rounder since Chistov that hasn't had skating problems. Lupul overcame and nearly scored 30 goals, and Getzlaf & Perry had decent rookie seasons, especially their domination of the AHL, and both were decent in the playoffs. You'd think Ryan should've improved by now, but, unlike the other three, Ryan's never actually taken part in training camp(I think he was injured until it was time for him to leave). Once he's healthy in training camp(this year), I think we'll see substantial improvements in his skating, and this year I could see him win OHL or maybe even CHL MVP. We'll just have to wait and see.

Both Bobby Ryan and Jack Johnson are top end talent and it would be choosing apples versus oranges. Would I trade Ryan for Johnson? I wouldnt' want to answer that question too quickly. The "sexy" answer is yes. However, I raise two points.

1) organizational depth: the Ducks have O'brien, Mitera, Kondrats, Skinner, Mikkelsson, and Salcido at defense. Nieds, Pronger, and Beauch are all signed for at least three more seasons. Do we need Jack Johnson? What do we have at forward? Remember, most of our top end talent (Getz, Perry, Penner, Kunitz) are all in Anaheim. Other than Ryan, we have Shannon and that's it. We got some kids like Genoway, Carter, and Konopka who fills in better maybe as 3rd line players but no one as talented as Ryan.

2) potential: in three years, would you trade Bobby Ryan for Jack Johnson if both prospect develop to potential? With Ryan, Anaheim could have a powerforward with great vision and soft hands. And lets not forget, the kid can score. At the moment, the main limiting factor is his skating. Teemu Selanne he is not and will never be. However, Ryan's skating will improve as he continues to work on his conditioning. I'm sure alot of it must be working with a powerskating coach. If he improves his skating, Ryan has the potential to be a franchise player. It usually takes time for powerforwards to develop so is the franchise ready to stay patient with Bobby Ryan? Those who are willing to trade him are not.

Both Bobby Ryan and Jack Johnson are top end talent and it would be choosing apples versus oranges. Would I trade Ryan for Johnson? I wouldnt' want to answer that question too quickly. The "sexy" answer is yes. However, I raise two points.

1) organizational depth: the Ducks have O'brien, Mitera, Kondrats, Skinner, Mikkelsson, and Salcido at defense. Nieds, Pronger, and Beauch are all signed for at least three more seasons. Do we need Jack Johnson? What do we have at forward? Remember, most of our top end talent (Getz, Perry, Penner, Kunitz) are all in Anaheim. Other than Ryan, we have Shannon and that's it. We got some kids like Genoway, Carter, and Konopka who fills in better maybe as 3rd line players but no one as talented as Ryan.

2) potential: in three years, would you trade Bobby Ryan for Jack Johnson if both prospect develop to potential? With Ryan, Anaheim could have a powerforward with great vision and soft hands. And lets not forget, the kid can score. At the moment, the main limiting factor is his skating. Teemu Selanne he is not and will never be. However, Ryan's skating will improve as he continues to work on his conditioning. I'm sure alot of it must be working with a powerskating coach. If he improves his skating, Ryan has the potential to be a franchise player. It usually takes time for powerforwards to develop so is the franchise ready to stay patient with Bobby Ryan? Those who are willing to trade him are not.

This is really well noted. I was going to say "no" but it was purely on the first reason.

I got nothing against Johnson for wanting to play college hockey, though. Loyalty in a player is probably a good thing, once he comes up.

This is really well noted. I was going to say "no" but it was purely on the first reason.

I got nothing against Johnson for wanting to play college hockey, though. Loyalty in a player is probably a good thing, once he comes up.

I agree. He is never going to regret that extra time he is spending in college right now. Good decision on his part. :)

I'm not certain that the Ducks, aside from the defensemen, have drafted a first rounder since Chistov that hasn't had skating problems. Lupul overcame and nearly scored 30 goals, and Getzlaf & Perry had decent rookie seasons, especially their domination of the AHL, and both were decent in the playoffs. You'd think Ryan should've improved by now, but, unlike the other three, Ryan's never actually taken part in training camp(I think he was injured until it was time for him to leave). Once he's healthy in training camp(this year), I think we'll see substantial improvements in his skating, and this year I could see him win OHL or maybe even CHL MVP. We'll just have to wait and see.
Yeah but just because Perry/Getzlaf/Lupul did doesn't mean Ryan will . He doesn't look like he's improved. I hope he has a great year in the OHL, but look at Brule, when he got back to the WHL all he did was dominate, no inconsistancy or excuses.

1) organizational depth: the Ducks have O'brien, Mitera, Kondrats, Skinner, Mikkelsson, and Salcido at defense. Nieds, Pronger, and Beauch are all signed for at least three more seasons. Do we need Jack Johnson? What do we have at forward? Remember, most of our top end talent (Getz, Perry, Penner, Kunitz) are all in Anaheim. Other than Ryan, we have Shannon and that's it. We got some kids like Genoway, Carter, and Konopka who fills in better maybe as 3rd line players but no one as talented as Ryan.

O'brien, Mitera, Kondratiev, Skinner, Mikkelson, and Salcido are all low to midlevel prospects. It's possible that none of them ever become regulars.

In a few years Pronger and Niedermayer will be gone, and our top guys will be 2nd-rate players like Beauchemin, whereas Perry, Getzlaf and Penner will all still be young, present, and producing. Our most pressing need is for a surefire defenseman.

Yeah but just because Perry/Getzlaf/Lupul did doesn't mean Ryan will . He doesn't look like he's improved. I hope he has a great year in the OHL, but look at Brule, when he got back to the WHL all he did was dominate, no inconsistancy or excuses.

Like I said, they've all benefitted from being at our training camp and working with our skating coach. Ryan's never really had that luxury, so it's not right to expect a ton of improvement. Once he does this year, I'm sure we'll see some, if not alot, like Perry after the 2003 training camp.

I'd be real easy on writing Ryan off because his development appears slow. Ryan's a big strong kid with great puck skills. This could be a situation where he needs a few seasons of pro-level conditioning before being ready to apply his skills at this level. Everyone wants the next Stall or Nash, but not every kid develops that way. Shane Doan was a big, strong kid with great character who took ages to develop with Winnipeg/Phoenix. Fans *****ed about him for years before he finally put it together, but when he did, he was a franchise sort of forward. Ryan wasn't drafted for the short term, and it's way to early to give up on him.

I don't know anything about Johnson's situation, but Money's right, the scouts, who watched/know a whole lot more about these kids than I do, chose Ryan. I have to go along with that for the time being.

Ryan for Johnson? Hell, yeah! But none of them appear to have the potential of a franchise player, right now at least.

I'd be real easy on writing Ryan off because his development appears slow. Ryan's a big strong kid with great puck skills. This could be a situation where he needs a few seasons of pro-level conditioning before being ready to apply his skills at this level. Everyone wants the next Stall or Nash, but not every kid develops that way. Shane Doan was a big, strong kid with great character who took ages to develop with Winnipeg/Phoenix. Fans *****ed about him for years before he finally put it together, but when he did, he was a franchise sort of forward. Ryan wasn't drafted for the short term, and it's way to early to give up on him.

I don't know anything about Johnson's situation, but Money's right, the scouts, who watched/know a whole lot more about these kids than I do, chose Ryan. I have to go along with that for the time being.
The question is would you do it right now, not which is better for the future. This team really isn't in a look-to-the-future posture anymore.

Jack Johnson reminds me of the following players:

Stanislav Chistov----basically walked away from the Ducks for two years to prove what point that'll endear him to our fanbase.

Ilya Bryzagalov----how many times must Ilya whine to the press and then claim he was misunderstood when things don't go the way he expects them to.

Alexander Semin---see Chistov but instead of Anaheim---Washington had to work over three years to get him back over to the NHL.

Amazing! I didn't even realize that Johnson's Russian.

The question is would you do it right now, not which is better for the future. This team really isn't in a look-to-the-future posture anymore.

Don't be silly. While the team is built to make a serious Cup run for the next three seasons or so, whether you opt for Ryan or Johnson is strictly a move for the future. Neither of them is going to be an impact player immediately. While some teams are more oriented towards the present than others, all teams are thinking about the future.

I'm so silly.

I'd be real easy on writing Ryan off because his development appears slow. Ryan's a big strong kid with great puck skills. This could be a situation where he needs a few seasons of pro-level conditioning before being ready to apply his skills at this level. Everyone wants the next Stall or Nash, but not every kid develops that way. Shane Doan was a big, strong kid with great character who took ages to develop with Winnipeg/Phoenix. Fans *****ed about him for years before he finally put it together, but when he did, he was a franchise sort of forward. Ryan wasn't drafted for the short term, and it's way to early to give up on him.

I don't know anything about Johnson's situation, but Money's right, the scouts, who watched/know a whole lot more about these kids than I do, chose Ryan. I have to go along with that for the time being.

Finally, the voice of reason. It seems to me that when the Ducks drafted Ryan---all of 15 months ago---his skating was an issue. Also, he was considered a bit of a "reach" at number two overall, although most everyone had him in their top five.

Now posters are complaining about the fact that he hasn't improved his skating enough---after all, he's had almost 15 months in which to do it---he's not as NHL-ready as Brule---something else we all knew at the time of last year's draft---and some posters here seem to be writing him off as a bust.

Three years from now, I may have to concede that all of you naysayers were right and I was too slow to see the obvious. But, for now, give the kid a chance.

If I was Burke, I don't think I would trade Ryan for Johnson because you guys are already stacked on D, not much point in trading a solid offensive prospect for a solid defensive prospect.

If I was Burke, I don't think I would trade Ryan for Johnson because you guys are already stacked on D, not much point in trading a solid offensive prospect for a solid defensive prospect.

Not really...the top end is good but the depth is poor, especially in terms of highly regarded prospects.

Finally, the voice of reason. It seems to me that when the Ducks drafted Ryan---all of 15 months ago---his skating was an issue. Also, he was considered a bit of a "reach" at number two overall, although most everyone had him in their top five.

Now posters are complaining about the fact that he hasn't improved his skating enough---after all, he's had almost 15 months in which to do it---he's not as NHL-ready as Brule---something else we all knew at the time of last year's draft---and some posters here seem to be writing him off as a bust.

Three years from now, I may have to concede that all of you naysayers were right and I was too slow to see the obvious. But, for now, give the kid a chance.
I don't think anyone's "writing him off", the question is basically who is the better prospect. I think it's Johnson in a walk. Doesn't mean Ryan sucks.

His skating does suck, though.

I think it's Johnson in a walk.

Ha. It had better be a walk, because RYAN CAN'T SKATE.

Ha. It had better be a walk, because RYAN CAN'T SKATE.

Sure wish I could quote myself...must be nice.

Ha. It had better be a walk, because RYAN CAN'T SKATE.

Whiskey, gin, rum, or vodka?

Dooood.

This is me excited for the new season. It's a clean slate! I love you all.

Finally, the voice of reason. It seems to me that when the Ducks drafted Ryan---all of 15 months ago---his skating was an issue. Also, he was considered a bit of a "reach" at number two overall, although most everyone had him in their top five.

Now posters are complaining about the fact that he hasn't improved his skating enough---after all, he's had almost 15 months in which to do it---he's not as NHL-ready as Brule---something else we all knew at the time of last year's draft---and some posters here seem to be writing him off as a bust.

Three years from now, I may have to concede that all of you naysayers were right and I was too slow to see the obvious. But, for now, give the kid a chance.
Given the fact that Brule is going to play a pretty decent sized role this year, and the fact he still can get alot better it's hard not to think What If? The thing here is the Ducks had a golden opportunity to draft a potential franchise player center in Brule or a future #1 defensemen in Johnson. Ryan just has alot of question marks and the ducks could have had a more NHL ready player with as much, if not more potential.

Dooood.

This is me excited for the new season. It's a clean slate! I love you all.

Nothing like a clean slate...

I'll be much more excited when I have my Center Ice ordered and ready to go.

Not really...the top end is good but the depth is poor, especially in terms of highly regarded prospects.

We're much deeper on D than we are up front. Nieds, Pronger, Beauch, O'Brien, Mitera, Mikkelson, etc. is a really nice group of defensemen. Up front, we don't have much more than Ryan, Shannon, and some of these new kids like Carter and Genoway.

Like some of you have already mentioned, Ryan IS a project. It should take some time to develop this kid. Even with his poor skating, he managed to absolutely dominate his OHL competition for half of a season. I'm willing to wait for him to develop and I think that Burke is thinking the same way.

IMO, trading Ryan for Johnson would be a mistake.

I kind of agree with preferring both Brule and Johnson to Ryan. Yes Ryan could be a dominating wing, but those two could be a dominating center or defenseman. In my book, those positions can play bigger roles (assuming equal talent). Granted a good power forward is also incredibly valuable, but I just have a thing for defensemen.

But that trade would never happen because it wouldn't help Carolina with their defenseman needs, and the Ducks chose Ryan over Johnson for a reason. It's probably too soon for them to re-evaluate why they chose Ryan. And now that we have him and have begun investing in him, we might as well see what we get. Although if his skating doesn't improve at all in another year, then I'm really worried.

We're much deeper on D than we are up front. Nieds, Pronger, Beauch, O'Brien, Mitera, Mikkelson, etc. is a really nice group of defensemen. Up front, we don't have much more than Ryan, Shannon, and some of these new kids like Carter and Genoway.

Come on now, you can't say we've got good depth on D by including NHL guys like Niedermayer, Pronger, and Beachemin and then turn around and ignore our depth up front with guys like Penner, Perry, Getzlaf, Chistov, McDonald, etc.

Come on now, you can't say we've got good depth on D by including NHL guys like Niedermayer, Pronger, and Beachemin and then turn around and ignore our depth up front with guys like Penner, Perry, Getzlaf, Chistov, McDonald, etc.

OK, fine.

Mikkelson, Mitera, O'Brien, Kondratiev, Skinner > Ryan, Swan, Shannon, Carter, Genoway

We've got better depth on D than we do up front at this point.

Mikkelson, Mitera, O'Brien, Kondratiev, Skinner > Ryan, Swan, Shannon, Carter, Genoway

If you're going to include Kondratiev then Konopka should be listed. He'd be the 2nd forward on that list after Ryan. You are also overlooking Stewart, Melin, Brent, and Glencross among others.

I do agree that defense has an edge overall, but the gap isn't very big.