ESPN: Tale of two teams, NJ vs PHI

Hmmm.... And it shows in the results...



http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=morganti_al&id=1663551
By Al Morganti
Special to ESPN.com

While two Atlantic Division goaltenders registered shutouts on Saturday, the state of the goalie situation within those two teams -- each with hopes of winning the Stanley Cup -- couldn't be more different.


Hours after New Jersey Devils goalie Martin Brodeur turned in his 67th career shutout in a 5-0 embarrassment of the New York Rangers, Philadelphia Flyers netminder Jeff Hackett shutdown the upstart Atlanta Thrashers 4-0. It was Hackett's third shutout of the season, and for his effort he was selected the second star of the game. Despite his success this season -- a 5-2-2 record, 1.85 GAA and .924 save percentage -- it's still thought that he'll be backing up Robert Esche in the playoffs.


Hasn't that been the story of the Flyers and Devils throughout a decade? Since Brodeur became a full-time NHLer in 1993-94, he has been the Devils' main guy, no questions asked. Since then, the Devils have won three Stanley Cups -- and bounced the Flyers out of the playoffs en route to two of them, in 1995 and 2000.


During that same period, the Flyers have had nine goalies serve time as No. 1: Tommy Soderstrom, Dominic Roussel, Ron Hextall, Garth Snow, Sean Burke, John Vanbiesbrouk, Brian Boucher, Roman Cechmanek, and now either Hackett or Esche.


While the Devils have stood sound with Brodeur, the Flyers have literally tried the by-hook-or-by-crook method to solidify their goaltending, using the draft (Boucher, Cechmanek), trades (Burke, Esche) and free agency (Vanbiesbrouck, Hackett) to get better.


.

.

.

Bobby Clarke should have shown a lot more patience with Maxim O. before dealing him away for Adam Oates.

Bobby Clarke should have shown a lot more patience with Maxim O. before dealing him away for Adam Oates.

And the 1st, 2nd and 3rd draft picks... (Which I think were conditional, so I forget if they actually did change hands)

Bobby Clarke should have shown a lot more patience with Maxim O. before dealing him away for Adam Oates.

I didn't like the trade (for the Flyers) at that time, and of course it's easy to say it again now. I'm not a Bob Clarke fan by any stretch, but I have to give him credit for having the guts to make a deal he thought would put the Flyers over the top. If the Flyers had won it all, he would've looked like a genius. Luckly, they did not. :p

Just announced on the Sabres vs. Sens telecast a moment ago. Didn't hear how much it was for, but it makes sense for them after they lost Reasoner with the broken leg injury. I liked Oates a lot when he was in Boston.

I caught that too, but I also thought I heard he won't be available for two weeks... Anyone know why?

Bobby Clarke should have shown a lot more patience with Maxim O. before dealing him away for Adam Oates.

They tried to take a shot, it didn't work out.

None of the three draft picks have turned out to be much, so unless Max becomes a dominant #1 starter (a long way from that) the trade really hasn't hurt the team much.

Clarke was able to make the deal because he had built up a ton of excess draft picks. 2 months later he still had two 2nd round picks to deal with Fedotenko to move up and grab Pitkanen.

Also had two #1's this past year.

Flyer currently have Esche, Niittymaki & Malek all 25 years if age or under.

I caught that too, but I also thought I heard he won't be available for two weeks... Anyone know why?


``I haven't skated in a while so I'll need at least a week if not two to get ready,'' said Oates, meaning he'll miss Edmonton's outdoor NHL game against Montreal on Saturday.

--courtesey of tsn.ca

``I haven't skated in a while so I'll need at least a week if not two to get ready,'' said Oates, meaning he'll miss Edmonton's outdoor NHL game against Montreal on Saturday.

--courtesey of tsn.ca


Thanks!


That's odd that he hadn't skated in a while. You think he just expected to retire? Most players without a contract skate with a local collegiate team or minor club... Then again, most of those players weren't in their 40s.

Its not what Washington got, its what Philly could have gotten, there was plenty of potantial of those 3 picks. I think I already stated this to you before, can't remember.

Could have the Flyers have gotten something from those 3 picks? Yes, they probably get a good player from those three picks, as they've been very good at the draft table of late.

My point is that a team take take a chance on making that kind of deal when you have as many excess draft picks as the Flyers has accumulated.

Flyers were able to grab the 4th pick, and then knew that the following year (2003) they had 7 picks in the first 3 rounds (actually had 9 until they dealt 2 of them).

---------------------------------------------------

Just like how in 2001 Lou was able to take a bit of a gamble and select Foster in the first round. Lou knew that he had an extra 2nd & extra 3rd round pick that year.

If Lou didn't have those extra picks as backups maybe he makes a safer pick like a Derek Roy or a Kyle Wanvig.

Sure the Oates trade sucked, but I'm still impressed with how Clarke r*p*d the Coyot... sorry, I mean traded Boucher for Hanzus, Eche and a real sweet draft pick.

Clarke and co. draft well and hiring Hitchcock was a great move... so Clarke loves loves big, overpaid 30-something forwards and has goalie issues... nobody is perfect...

Sure the Oates trade sucked, but I'm still impressed with how Clarke r*p*d the Coyot... sorry, I mean traded Boucher for Hanzus, Eche and a real sweet draft pick.

Clarke and co. draft well and hiring Hitchcock was a great move... so Clarke loves loves big, overpaid 30-something forwards and has goalie issues... nobody is perfect...


The big slow forward issue is somthing of the past. Flyers actually are not very big anymore.

Only Primeau, Brashear, Handzus & LeClair are really big forwards, and of those two only Handzus & LeClair are on the slow side.

Flyers have gone to become more of a skating team: Amonte, Recchi, Roenick, Gagne, Williams, Kapanen, Lapointe

They tried to take a shot, it didn't work out.

None of the three draft picks have turned out to be much, so unless Max becomes a dominant #1 starter (a long way from that) the trade really hasn't hurt the team much.

Clarke was able to make the deal because he had built up a ton of excess draft picks. 2 months later he still had two 2nd round picks to deal with Fedotenko to move up and grab Pitkanen.

Also had two #1's this past year.

Flyer currently have Esche, Niittymaki & Malek all 25 years if age or under.

John,


The thing about the Oulett that doesn't make sense to so many people is Goaltending is constantly an issue in Philly. So why does Clarke give up on a potential #1 netminder (and a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd) for Oates? It just seems like an impulse move. Taking a gamble with a pick is a lot different than taking one on a 38 Y.O. Unrestricted Free Agent and giving up so much.

I think the following year from when he was traded THN said he was the best player outside of the NHL.


BTW John,

you're alright. When yuou come here you're always respectful and offer a fair flip side.

John,


The thing about the Oulett that doesn't make sense to so many people is Goaltending is constantly an issue in Philly. So why does Clarke give up on a potential #1 netminder (and a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd) for Oates? It just seems like an impulse move. Taking a gamble with a pick is a lot different than taking one on a 38 Y.O. Unrestricted Free Agent and giving up so much.

I think the following year from when he was traded THN said he was the best player outside of the NHL.


A few reasons why the trade was made.

#1. Two days before the trade deadline, Clarke and the Flyers thought they had a team that could win the Cup.

#2. The night before the trade deadline, the Flyers lost their top 2 centerman. Roenick suffered a torn ACL (feared done for the season) and Primeau suffered cracked ribs (feared out for 3 weeks). All of a sudden the Flyers needed a centerman in the worst way.

#3. As high as the Flyers were on Max, they saw their window of opportunity to win with the current group closing, and Max wasn't going to become a #1 for another 3-5 years, if at all.

#4. At the time we had Cechmanek (30 years old and playing on a Vezina level for 2 years). Goalies can play at a high level until their mid-to-late 30's. Plenty of time to draft and groom another young goalie.

In the end Oates didn't help the team and it was a bad deal because of that reason. If Oates played great and the Flyers had a long playoff run, it certainly would have been worth it.

My defense of the trade is not to prove that it was a good deal, but to point out the reasons why it was done, and also that has not even close to the worst deal in the history of the NHL like it's often perceived to be.



One other thing, Max has never been considered the best goalie outside of the NHL, let alone the best player. Yes, he's very talented and highly regarded, but goalies are often the toughest to predict. Only time will tell if he ever becomes a #1 goalie, let alone a star.