Just curious...

If Lou feels that he can make the team better by dealing either Ari Ahonen or Scott Clemmensen later in the season, would anyone be averse to drafting Al Montoya in the first round next year? I think Montoya could be a great goaltender and eventually be the heir apparent to Marty. In the meantime, Albany can get by with Matus Kostur and a veteran minor leaguer. Also, I think Corey would be happy to hang around for another year or two as Marty's backup. I would love to have him around. No sense in Ahonen or Clemmensen playing in a handful of games and sitting on the Devils bench for 70+ games. Also, if Marty should be injured, I don't have faith in either Ari or Scotty playing for a prolonged period of time. I know Corey could handle the playing time and pressure. In fact, Corey could be a #1 on several teams in the league IMO.

BTW, would Montoya slip to us, or would we have to trade up to get him?

Just curious as to what you think. Thanks! :)

Might be a little risky to assume that Montoya will slip to NJ at #30 in the upcoming draft. :handclap: ;)

I'm all for taking the best player available.....although that definition is always relative.

Clemmensen doesn't have any trade value, if I'm not mistaken, he passed through the waiver draft.

Ahonen has some value, but every team has an obligatory goalie of the future. I guess we could use Maxime Ouellet as a gauge of what to expect in terms of trade value for Ahonen. Ouellet + 1st + 2nd + 3rd for a (in theory) good rental forward.

I haven't read too much in terms of this draft, but a team like the Kings who should be picking in front of us might have more immediate interest in Montoya. They picked up Ryan Munce in the 3rd round last year and signed former first rounder Mathieu Chouinard, but I wouldn't characterize goal as a strength for them. They have a ton of forward prospects, so I'd expect them to take a non-forward barring somebody slipping down to them. Plus Kings fans are starting to realize that Cechmanek isn't quite as good as his numbers made them think he was.

Ahonen has some value, but every team has an obligatory goalie of the future. I guess we could use Maxime Ouellet as a gauge of what to expect in terms of trade value for Ahonen. Ouellet + 1st + 2nd + 3rd for a (in theory) good rental forward.


You really shouldn't be using the most imbalanced trade in the NHL in years as a barometer (even if it is the only instance of a blue-chip goalie prospect being traded). It's true that most teams think they already have their goalie of the future... but that Oates deal was _absurd_. Even without Ouellet in the package, it would have been absurd.

I wouldn't mind the Devils trading Ahonen because I really think he's due for the NHL sooner than the Devils will have room for him. But if the market for prospect goalies is really that deflated? I'd rather him winning in Albany than traded with picks for a rental.

You really shouldn't be using the most imbalanced trade in the NHL in years as a barometer (even if it is the only instance of a blue-chip goalie prospect being traded). It's true that most teams think they already have their goalie of the future... but that Oates deal was _absurd_. Even without Ouellet in the package, it would have been absurd.

I wouldn't mind the Devils trading Ahonen because I really think he's due for the NHL sooner than the Devils will have room for him. But if the market for prospect goalies is really that deflated? I'd rather him winning in Albany than traded with picks for a rental.

I agree 100% with the first part of your post. If LL takes the Philly trade as a barometer he would be the dumbest GM on earth. See http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=28146&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=1, the subject Ahonen was already discussed.

I disagree with the second part of your post though, trading Ahonen makes zero sense and no, he is far from being ready to the NHL. He will be at 26 or 27, just like Marty Turco. It's cool because everytime I hear a proposition with Ahonen I know it is stupid so I don't need to lose my time thinking about it. In fact when there is guys like Ahonen, Parise or Hale in the deal, you know the idea will have no credibility.

I wouldn't mind the Devils trading Ahonen because I really think he's due for the NHL sooner than the Devils will have room for him. But if the market for prospect goalies is really that deflated? I'd rather him winning in Albany than traded with picks for a rental.
These are my thoughts also. Ahonen will be ready for the NHL long before Brodeur is on his way out.

I disagree with the second part of your post though, trading Ahonen makes zero sense and no, he is far from being ready to the NHL. He will be at 26 or 27, just like Marty Turco.


I didn't say he's ready for the NHL, I said he'll be realy for the NHL before the Devils have room for him. For one, I expect Brodeur to be a career Devil, so we're looking at likely another 7 to 9 years (maybe more) before there's room for anything but a backup in the Swamp - Ahonen's 22. And, IMHO, the longer the Devils hold on to Ahonen the more of a liability he becomes. Next fall he'll be eligible for the waiver draft - so the Devils would either have to protect him and expose their NHL backup, expose him and risk losing him for nothing, or pull him up to the NHL permamently, doomed to spend most of his twenties watching rather than playing.

Even if they *do* protect him and keep him in Albany, what's the point? Year over year of guarding your farm team's goalie? And if there ever is an injury in Brodeurland, the team's hand is forced - they call up Ahonen while Marty's injured, then are forced to trade him once Marty returns (reassigning to Albany would mean waivers would mean byebye).

I don't think Ahonen will ever have more trade value than he has right now, this season.

Just Think Brodeur will probably reach 400 wins and 70 shutouts before his 32 birthday.

Incredible!

I didn't say he's ready for the NHL, I said he'll be realy for the NHL before the Devils have room for him. For one, I expect Brodeur to be a career Devil, so we're looking at likely another 7 to 9 years (maybe more) before there's room for anything but a backup in the Swamp - Ahonen's 22. And, IMHO, the longer the Devils hold on to Ahonen the more of a liability he becomes. Next fall he'll be eligible for the waiver draft - so the Devils would either have to protect him and expose their NHL backup, expose him and risk losing him for nothing, or pull him up to the NHL permamently, doomed to spend most of his twenties watching rather than playing.

Even if they *do* protect him and keep him in Albany, what's the point? Year over year of guarding your farm team's goalie? And if there ever is an injury in Brodeurland, the team's hand is forced - they call up Ahonen while Marty's injured, then are forced to trade him once Marty returns (reassigning to Albany would mean waivers would mean byebye).

I don't think Ahonen will ever have more trade value than he has right now, this season.

You know what. Devils management is not that stupid. They knew they had Marty when they drafted Ahonen and they knew it would be a long term solution. There is 9 years old of difference between these guys. There was the same difference when Ahonen was drafted, nothing has changed.

There is 10 years of difference between Turco and Belfour. The Devils could very well do the same thing. It's the ideal situation for the Devils and a great solution. Maybe he'll fail. Who knows. But trading Ahonen right know like this is the dumbest idea on earth.

Like I said, if you were the GMs it's obvious Marty would have been traded for a third round pick ten years ago. Oh what a great deal.

You know what. Devils management is not that stupid. They knew they had Marty when they drafted Ahonen and they knew it would be a long term solution. There is 9 years old of difference between these guys. There was the same difference when Ahonen was drafted, nothing has changed.

There is 10 years of difference between Turco and Belfour. The Devils could very well do the same thing. It's the ideal situation for the Devils and a great solution.
...to have one terrible season, no attempt to re-sign a still-capable goalie, and then watch him end his career on another team?


I kinda hope that isn't how the Brodeur in New Jersey story ends.


Like I said, if you were the GMs it's obvious Marty would have been traded for a third round pick ten years ago. Oh what a great deal.


When Brodeur was coming up there wasn't a long-term hall-of-fame goalie ahead of him. But we have seen Dunham, now an established NHL starter, go for nothing because the team was unwilling to make a move before circumstances rendered him valueless.

...to have one terrible season, no attempt to re-sign a still-capable goalie, and then watch him end his career on another team?


I kinda hope that isn't how the Brodeur in New Jersey story ends.

The Stars brilliantly made the post-Belfour (at least their problems didn't came from between the posts). I really hope the Devils will do the same and Ahonen could allow that, and that's why we must keep him. You don't know how long Marty will play so you're going fast by saying he will play elsewhere.

When Brodeur was coming up there wasn't a long-term hall-of-fame goalie ahead of him. But we have seen Dunham, now an established NHL starter, go for nothing because the team was unwilling to make a move before circumstances rendered him valueless.

Again, you don't know how long Marty will play. Hall of famer or not he's getting older just like everyone. Mike Dunham has something like the same age than Brodeur so the comparaison makes no sense because it is obvious Dunham would never represent the post-Brodeur in New Jersey.

The Stars brilliantly made the post-Belfour (at least their problems didn't came from between the posts). I really hope the Devils will do the same and Ahonen could allow that, and that's why we must keep him. You don't know how long Marty will play so you're going fast by saying he will play elsewhere.

Has he ever even hinted at early retirement? I think the safest assumption is that Brodeur's here on the long term.



In any case, clearly we disagree on this and I don't think that's about to change. But what do you suggest the Devils do for the next, let's say, 3 years? Assume there is no lockout. They protect him at waiver drafts, of course. So then, does he play 2004-2005 as backup in NJ or as starter in Albany? If he does play in Albany and Brodeur suffers a 1-2 month injury, what then? Call him up, or acquire a temp (like Calgary just did with Kiprusoff)? Keep in mind if they call him up, he's up for life, he could never be sent down again.

Has he ever even hinted at early retirement? I think the safest assumption is that Brodeur's here on the long term.

He is absolutly a long-term solution, if he decides to stay here. He should go 'til 35, or 36. Maybe more but we can't know so we must think about the situation where Marty would go at 35 or 36. 36 seems like an "average" supposition. When Marty'll have 36 Ahonen will have 27.

In any case, clearly we disagree on this and I don't think that's about to change. But what do you suggest the Devils do for the next, let's say, 3 years? Assume there is no lockout. They protect him at waiver drafts, of course. So then, does he play 2004-2005 as backup in NJ or as starter in Albany? If he does play in Albany and Brodeur suffers a 1-2 month injury, what then? Call him up, or acquire a temp (like Calgary just did with Kiprusoff)? Keep in mind if they call him up, he's up for life, he could never be sent down again.

I don't see problems. We can do just like everyone do, from the Stars with Turco to the Avalanche with Aebsicher. Let a young player progress and replace our starter when he'll retire. One day or another Ahonen will need to be protected, that's not a big deal, the Devils can protect him and Marty. Schwaby will not stay here very long, Ahonen should be ready to serve as a back-up one day or another. And I hope so, because it's the first step if he wants to be our starter one day.

So what's your proposition ? We trade Ahonen for a third round pick and see him at the top at his game while Marty calls it a career ? Ahonen was drafted for the after Brodeur. Maybe he'll failed, we don't know. But he is an assurance right now and LL know why he drafted Ahonen. Believe me it wasn't a hasardous pick, Ahonen was drafted as a solution for the after-Brodeur and there is no reason to trade this great talent like this.