[WC] The World Cup black eye : The Men in Black

I think we'll all agree that the reffing has been absolutely horrible since the third or fourth day of the WC.
This is not a coincidence. FIFA gives orders to refs after a few days of competition on what they should whistle harder, etc...

Well, FIFA is dead wrong.
I'm all for yellows to divers, whiners, etc...
But how can you defend the same sanction for a dive and a huge two-footed tackle as the last defenseman (Heinze style) or a big tackle near the head of the striker (Valente style), or even a tackle straight to the leg without any intention to play the ball (Boulharouz style)?

This is getting ridiculous. It means that diving is way up, because players are faking fouls everywhere to get other players carded.

Missing plays is something that happens once in a while. At least once a game I'd say. But right now, not only are ref making bad decisions with the cards, they're missing obvious plays everywhere (Crouch's goal against T&T, Vieira's goal disallowed, Muller's handball, Ukraine's handball vs Tunisia, 3 yellows to a single player, etc...).

This is really the most striking thing in this WC.
We've been used to some mistakes in previous WC, but right now, it's absolutely on another level.
It's ruining the fun. Not a single game is well reffed.

Note that I'm not only talking about last night's game, but the overall competition.

Obviously, Blatter's tactics are obviously to blame. He chooses refs from countries that bring him votes. Even if those refs don't play up tempo competition the whole year.
How many refs from England, France, Italy, Spain? One per country, right? Mexico has two. How competitive is Mexico's league?

It's not just annoying. It's absolutely disgusting.

:clap:


I truly believe the Mexico/Argentina game would have had a different outcome if the refs were giving cards to the Divers.

I don't even konw where to begin on this topic.

Seems to me the majority of the refs have been reasonably competent, but under some funky instructions.

I do agree that they would do well to select more refs from more competitive leagues. But that brings up the spectre of awarding more spots to more geographically competitive areas (Europe, maybe South America).

I dont agree with the 1 ref per country rule.

This way we see assistants from Benin while top EPL/La Liga etc refs stay home. They just dont have big game experience (the Benin ref).

On the other hand: the EPL ref basically was one of the worst of the bunch. We've seen Merk and other well known refs also make mistakes.
The most shocking thing is that De Bleeckere has probably been the best ref at the W.C. (or at least one of the top 4 - he'll get a quarter final) while he is about #4 on the real Belgian depth chart (not the one pimped by the Belgian FA to pimp mr. De Bleeckere for international assignments).



Although I have previously said that I think the one ref/country rule should be abandoned.


The problem is that the system is corrupt in two different places:

1) The FIFA bobo's buying votes from small FA's to keep their seats and continuing to fill their pockets with money. That's why you get all the minnow refs on display
See: Jamaican, T&T, Saudi Arabian, Egyptian, Benin... refs on this and past World Cups

2) The local FA's also using favoritism determinging which of their refs will be allowed to be selected by the FIFA.
Because I don't think Poll is the best ref in England and I know that De Bleeckere isn't the best in Belgium.

I still wanna know what happened at the end of the Australia - Croatia game... was it a penalty? was it full time... and if it was full time why did he blow the whistle when australia were about to score, and they did score...

By far the worst display by a referee ever

I don't think the refs from the smaller countries have been the problem. That Brazilian guy during the Germany Sweden game? Terrible terrible reffing.

Well did you read what I said in point 2) ?

Here's my burning question:

How do you get 3 yellow cards?

The stupid ref forgets to give the guy a red card after the first 2 yellows, then the player gets another yellow and finally the red :teach:

Here's my burning question:

How do you get 3 yellow cards?
A player can get 3, if the ref doesnt show him a red, he can stay on the pitch (I think).

I couldn't have worded this better myself:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccol26jun26,0,3028575.story?coll=la-home-headlines

(you may need to register for free to read this...I'm not sure about it)

I couldn't have worded this better myself:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccol26jun26,0,3028575.story?coll=la-home-headlines

(you may need to register for free to read this...I'm not sure about it)

Nice writedown.



I'll merge it in the let's collectively whine about the refs thread, it is kind of related...

:)

I think the Italy-Australia match could be a pretty challenging one to officiate. I guess Luis Medina Cantalejo (Spain) will be the referee, I don't really know anything about him myself, but good luck to him.

Well did you read what I said in point 2) ?
Yes but then the Egyptian ref might not be the best in his country either, so it still doesn't make a lot of sense to blame it on the smaller countries.

I loved this part :

World soccer's governing body is FIFA, whose president, Joseph "Sepp" Blatter, stated categorically before the tournament began that the referees selected to officiate the event "are currently the best match officials in the world."

And this :

nd Blatter's flip response to Sunday's debacle?

"There could have been a yellow card for the referee," he said.

No, Mr. Blatter, it is you who should be showing Ivanov and his ilk a red card before this farce goes on any longer.

And to think Blatter voiced his opinion on Terje Hauge after the final of the Champions League.. Hilarious stuff from Mr Blatter. Why does he have a job again? Someone please enlighten me. :p:

FIFA always have for or 5 points each WC where they say to refs, if you don't follow this, you're going home.

Thats why refs are under so much pressure, all common sense has been taken away from the officials.

Yellows are being given for anything and everything so I think they should serious think about making 3 yellows = 1 red. Poll could be a forward thinking pioneer!

Other than the Heinze call I thought the ref who did Argentine/Mexico did a good job. He seemed like he actually had balls, unlike most other refs I've seen.

I think the Italy-Australia match could be a pretty challenging one to officiate. I guess Luis Medina Cantalejo (Spain) will be the referee, I don't really know anything about him myself, but good luck to him.
The nice thing is that if the italians want to flop around like they have a life-threatening injury, the aussies may well give them something to actually cry about :sarcasm:

what's driving me crazy is the constant play stoppages. I completely agree with giving cards, etc for diving and the like. But I've rarely seen any flow to these games because of a whistle seemingly every minute. As much as the refs are not doing the greatest job, I am getting sick and tired of players going down and staying down for 5 minutes at a time. It seems the stretcher boys are doing more running than the actual players sometimes!!!

Honestly I agree with most of the cards handed out in that game yesterday. We can blame this and that on the referee but in all honestly the players did not leave him much choice. It was played with a foul spirit, there were terrible challenges the whole game, and a lot of shenanigans that deserved carding.

I think we'll all agree that the reffing has been absolutely horrible since the third or fourth day of the WC.
This is not a coincidence. FIFA gives orders to refs after a few days of competition on what they should whistle harder, etc...

Well, FIFA is dead wrong.
I'm all for yellows to divers, whiners, etc...
But how can you defend the same sanction for a dive and a huge two-footed tackle as the last defenseman (Heinze style) or a big tackle near the head of the striker (Valente style), or even a tackle straight to the leg without any intention to play the ball (Boulharouz style)?

This is getting ridiculous. It means that diving is way up, because players are faking fouls everywhere to get other players carded.

Missing plays is something that happens once in a while. At least once a game I'd say. But right now, not only are ref making bad decisions with the cards, they're missing obvious plays everywhere (Crouch's goal against T&T, Vieira's goal disallowed, Muller's handball, Ukraine's handball vs Tunisia, 3 yellows to a single player, etc...).

This is really the most striking thing in this WC.
We've been used to some mistakes in previous WC, but right now, it's absolutely on another level.
It's ruining the fun. Not a single game is well reffed.

Note that I'm not only talking about last night's game, but the overall competition.

Obviously, Blatter's tactics are obviously to blame. He chooses refs from countries that bring him votes. Even if those refs don't play up tempo competition the whole year.
How many refs from England, France, Italy, Spain? One per country, right? Mexico has two. How competitive is Mexico's league?

It's not just annoying. It's absolutely disgusting.

I don't say this often, but well said :)

And this :

Sepp Blatter is reknowned world-wide as being a joke. This is the same man that suggested all women players ought to wear hotpants instead of shorts... :shakehead

If only.... :yo:

This has been the worst World Cup I've seen since I've been watching(86'). Why? Because the refs are deciding the outcome of the games instead of the players. It's sad really. Let the players play for crying out loud!

86 was absolutely incredible.
Amazing goals, amazing games, amazing final.

90 was rubbish, 94 was boring (thanks to the final), and 98 was very defensive.
2002 was just weird and reffing ruined some of the fun.

Players will help decide how this WC is remembered, thanks to great final games.
So far, it's awful because of the refs I agree.

One more call to gripe about:

The referee made the correct call on the Frei's goal that made it 2-0 against the Koreans...

but the asshat side referee RAISED THE FRAKKING FLAG

There was no offisde on the play, but the moron RAISED THE FLAG

Sigh

Yeah, that was bad. But as they tell you as a kid, you don't stop playing until you hear the whistle.

To be devil's advocate, I applaud the yellow cards handed out for time wasting. I can't stand that, yet the players keep doing it. You'd think they learn but they never do.

To be devil's advocate, I applaud the yellow cards handed out for time wasting. I can't stand that, yet the players keep doing it. You'd think they learn but they never do.
I agree.

One more call to gripe about:

The referee made the correct call on the Frei's goal that made it 2-0 against the Koreans...

but the asshat side referee RAISED THE FRAKKING FLAG

There was no offisde on the play, but the moron RAISED THE FLAG

Sigh

I believe that was handled perfectly. Frei was in an offside position when the ball was hit by the Korean player. The Linesman was for sure blocked in his view of who got that touch, so he raises the flag. The Referee, who was not blocked, correctly ignores the flag. That is exactly how the system is supposed to work, the Linesman alerted the referee that a player was offsides when the ball was played, and the referee determined correctly that it was a Korean who played the ball, and didn't blow the whistle.

And to think Blatter voiced his opinion on Terje Hauge after the final of the Champions League.. Hilarious stuff from Mr Blatter. Why does he have a job again? Someone please enlighten me. :p:
For instance someone in charge of football in Trinidad & Tobago might, say, offer to guarantee CONACAF votes, and may, in an obviously unrelated way, recieve exclusive rights to sell WC tickets in T&T.

Odd that.

To be devil's advocate, I applaud the yellow cards handed out for time wasting. I can't stand that, yet the players keep doing it. You'd think they learn but they never do.
For timewasting instead of, or as well as, a booking I'd like to see time added on, a minute perhaps. That'd be pretty effective IMO

I think that any player that goes on the sideline for an injury can't come back for 5 minutes, except if he's subed.

That would stop a lot of these problems.
Honestly, you don't get better by spending 10 seconds off the pitch.

I think that any player that goes on the sideline for an injury can't come back for 5 minutes, except if he's subed.

That would stop a lot of these problems.
Honestly, you don't get better by spending 10 seconds off the pitch.
10 minutes. :)

Yakin out - Streller in.

How many refs from England, France, Italy, Spain? One per country, right? Mexico has two. How competitive is Mexico's league?

It's not just annoying. It's absolutely disgusting.[/QUOTE]


I totally agree that the reffing has been atrocious in this World Cup but please do not dis the Mexican soccer league or Mexicans.

The Mexican leagues is avery competoitive league with stadiums that sell out to 60,000 - 80,000 spectators. Mexico hosted the 1986 World Cup.

I have been to several games in Mexico and while the league does not have the mega-financing of the european leagues, they know their football.

What's up with the contant dissing of Mexicans ? No matter what the subject is, people are always making racist slurs about Mexicans.

Have you ever been to a game in Mexico ?

I suggest you be more careful with your innuendo because this comment could be interpreted in avery racist way...

For instance someone in charge of football in Trinidad & Tobago might, say, offer to guarantee CONACAF votes, and may, in an obviously unrelated way, recieve exclusive rights to sell WC tickets in T&T.

Odd that.
Hmmm, someones been watching Panorama.

For timewasting instead of, or as well as, a booking I'd like to see time added on, a minute perhaps. That'd be pretty effective IMO
Me too, Id also like to keep players off the field for 5 minutes if the game has to be stopped for them. After all, they must need all that time to recover if they cant get off the pitch themselves!

weird. the quote button didn't work properly.

My post is directed towards the comments made by EVILO in the beginning of the thread.

Aren't moderators supposed to be the responsible ones on the board ?
Wassup up with the racist innnuendo ??

What's up with the contant dissing of Mexicans ? No matter what the subject is, people are always making racist slurs about Mexicans.

Have you ever been to a game in Mexico ?

I suggest you be more careful with your innuendo because this comment could be interpreted in avery racist way...

OT: Well i for one love Mexico. Amazing country. I saw a game when i was there, Atlante - Pueblo 3-0 if i remember right (in 2003 August sometime),Good game. Great food and amazing scenery. And the people is just awesome, so friendy and helpful. I am surely coming back. Love your country. :handclap:

The main referee handled it perfectly I agree. It wasn't offside, it was his "obligation" ify ou will to ignore the flag, and he did. The call was correct.

Still the asshat linesman shouldn't have raised the flag.

Yes he should have. The Lineseman couldn't see who played the ball, so he raises the flag to signal to the referee that the player was offside when the ball is played through. The Flag is a means of communication between the referee and the linesman, not a whistle. It was used perfectly in this situation.

OT: Well i for one love Mexico. Amazing country. I saw a game when i was there, Atlante - Pueblo 3-0 if i remember right (in 2003 August sometime),Good game. Great food and amazing scenery. And the people is just awesome, so friendy and helpful. I am surely coming back. Love your country. :handclap:


I am a PUMAS fan : they play in Mexico City.

The most amazing thing I find going to games in Mexico is that the stadiums give everybody a TAB ! You pay for your drinks & food at the end of the match !!!
What a great honour system !

The tickets & food are inexpensive and they trust that you will not rip off the concessions !

A nice change from most professional sporting leagues where squeezing the fans for every penny is the norm...

I am a PUMAS fan : they play in Mexico City.

The most amazing thing I find going to games in Mexico is that the stadiums give everybody a TAB ! You pay for your drinks & food at the end of the match !!!
What a great honour system !

The tickets & food are inexpensive and they trust that you will not rip off the concessions !

A nice change from most professional sporting leagues where squeezing the fans for every penny is the norm...

Ah, UNAM Pumas, what colors is your club. Blue/white and gold?

Yeah, at a Hockey game here in Stockholm a dog and a large coke would be like 7$.


OT all the way :D

While we are on the topic of Mexico in the referee thread, I thought Archundia did a marvelous job today in the Ukraine vs Switzerland game. I'm not just saying that because Ukraine won, he let the players play and decide the game for themselves. Hopefully this was the result of some kind of a memo from FIFA after the Ivanov fiasko, and hopefully we'll see better reffing in the remaining games.

I don't know, #16. Yes, the reffing in the game Ukraine-Switzerland was far superior to some of the I've seen in recent games. But today there some instances of guys being knocked down/pushed in the box with absolutely no foul being called; which is odd when you have guys who have been awarded penalties for falling down without contact from a defender or unintentional/incidental contact.

I loved the Italy/Australia game this morning, but the officiating was inconsistent. There were periods when they whistled everything, then for the next couple minutes both sides got away with murder, then the penalty given at the end when the Italian initiated contact by practically stepping on him? Italy seemed to get away with a lot of contact down in their box.

Of course, it's not the refs' fault Australia lost, it was their coach's. They were a man up all 2nd half, and they didn't put any pressure on, just lobbed it towards the box every once in a while...someone should've taken a run with the extra space.

I don't know, #16. Yes, the reffing in the game Ukraine-Switzerland was far superior to some of the I've seen in recent games. But today there some instances of guys being knocked down/pushed in the box with absolutely no foul being called; which is odd when you have guys who have been awarded penalties for falling down without contact from a defender or unintentional/incidental contact.

I would take today's reffing over "guys who have been awarded penalties for falling down without contact from a defender or unintentional/incidental contact" any day. Let the players play. There weren't any screaming fouls in the box today, everything was 50/50, and a lot of the credit goes to the ref IMO- he let everybody know right from the get-go that he will not be whistling and booking every time somebody ends up on the ground. Whistle-happy refs make players very nervous, and that's when games get out of hand.

I would take today's reffing over "guys who have been awarded penalties for falling down without contact from a defender or unintentional/incidental contact" any day. Let the players play. There weren't any screaming fouls in the box today, everything was 50/50, and a lot of the credit goes to the ref IMO- he let everybody know right from the get-go that he will not be whistling and booking every time somebody ends up on the ground. Whistle-happy refs make players very nervous, and that's when games get out of hand.

I agree. I'm just thrown by the inconsistency of reffing; but it is preferable than if all the refs were carding everyone, granting penalties when it's dubious at best, and giving a guy THREE yellow cards.

Yeah, I'm still bitter about the refs. My brother says I should calm down, my team isn't even in it anymore. He's right. But the refs still suck. :)

God help us all if he gets another term as FIFA President.He will as hes corrupt and buys all the votes.

I loved the Italy/Australia game this morning, but the officiating was inconsistent. There were periods when they whistled everything, then for the next couple minutes both sides got away with murder, then the penalty given at the end when the Italian initiated contact by practically stepping on him? Italy seemed to get away with a lot of contact down in their box.

Of course, it's not the refs' fault Australia lost, it was their coach's. They were a man up all 2nd half, and they didn't put any pressure on, just lobbed it towards the box every once in a while...someone should've taken a run with the extra space.

very inconsistant officiating

Australia were attacking nearly the whole half but they failed to make and really good opportunities, mainly because of Italy's stingy defence. We needed Kewell, he's always the one that takes a run and draws players and hes not afraid to shoot. We needed Kewell bad!

Anybody have a clip of Grosso's fall? I was at work and missed the game, and can't find it anywhere :banghead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TGmaGPLFSU&search=Grosso%20Australia

What's up with the contant dissing of Mexicans ? No matter what the subject is, people are always making racist slurs about Mexicans.

Have you ever been to a game in Mexico ?

I suggest you be more careful with your innuendo because this comment could be interpreted in avery racist way...
Saying the mexican league is less competitive than the top 5 leagues in the world (which is obvious) is a racist slur?

:amazed:

weak :shakehead

weird. the quote button didn't work properly.

My post is directed towards the comments made by EVILO in the beginning of the thread.

Aren't moderators supposed to be the responsible ones on the board ?
Wassup up with the racist innnuendo ??
Chill out dude. It's now racist to say that in his opinion Mexico's league is not one of the top leagues in the world?

Read the post, think carefully, then respond.

Wow, that was offsides twice.

interesting article here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060626/ap_on_sp_so_ne/soc_wcup_referees;_ylt=AnfwXLUyOF2UVxh.aCJx5Mt2yLQ F;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--)

speaks that it interestingly has been the game's top referees screwing things up....

I think that any player that goes on the sideline for an injury can't come back for 5 minutes, except if he's subed.

That would stop a lot of these problems.
Honestly, you don't get better by spending 10 seconds off the pitch.

It's comments like this that make me wonder about you. Apparently you have played the game and never had a knock that hurts like hell for a minute and then wears off? I have, it's common. Your suggestion would be ridiculous.

It's comments like this that make me wonder about you. Apparently you have played the game and never had a knock that hurts like hell for a minute and then wears off? I have, it's common. Your suggestion would be ridiculous.
No it wouldn't be.
Because players have alreayd 1 to 2 minutes to get better before leaving the pitch.
They don't need these 10 remaining seconds.

No it wouldn't be.
Because players have alreayd 1 to 2 minutes to get better before leaving the pitch.
They don't need these 10 remaining seconds.

So if you get an honest knock your team has to play with ten men for 5 minutes as a result? It's a ridiculous suggestion.

No.
If you get an honest knock, you either get better in the full minute+ that is given you on the pitch, or the ref judges it's legit enough to warrant a quick come back on the pitch.
All the other reasons deserve 5 minutes on the sideline.

Naturally ( ;) ), What FIFA needs to do, is start their new initiatives for 2010 NOW, in EVERY league FIFA encompasses. That way, referees will have 4 years under their belt of calling the standard FIFA wants. They won't be thrown right into it at the ****ing World Cup.

Another note, Sepp Blatter is a ****ing moron. The referees are doing what they've been told to by FIFA, and Blatter has the nerve to say something immature (Ivanov deserves a yellow card) to the media? All he did was embarass the association he leads. God help us all if he gets another term as FIFA President.

100% common sense.However Blatter will have to be brought out in a coffin at FIFAs HQ so determined is he to stay in the post .More stupid ideas no doubt too will emanate from his office soon.

I'd like to see this rule implemented too. If a side has used their 3 substitutes & a player from this team is then injured & unable to carry on ,they should not be penalised in the sense that they will have to play with 10 men.

They should be able to recall 1 of the players substituted for to make up the numbers.

So if you get an honest knock your team has to play with ten men for 5 minutes as a result? It's a ridiculous suggestion.
If you get an honest knock, you can make it off the field by yourself.

Most of the time the play is stopped so the player can have a whine to the ref, nothing more.

Well Poll and Ivanov have been sent home, so have a dozen others but they havent been named yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm

No.
If you get an honest knock, you either get better in the full minute+ that is given you on the pitch, or the ref judges it's legit enough to warrant a quick come back on the pitch.
All the other reasons deserve 5 minutes on the sideline.

Ref's are not doctors, it is unfair and unrealistic to ask them to make a snap decision on whether or not they really are injured, therefore leading to more mistakes and more criticism for the men in black. You're making it far too complicated.

If you get an honest knock, you can make it off the field by yourself.

Most of the time the play is stopped so the player can have a whine to the ref, nothing more.

If you get an honest knock, 90% of the time you can't make it off the field by yourself! That's my entire point.

If you get an honest knock, 90% of the time you can't make it off the field by yourself! That's my entire point.
Yes you can, if its bad enough then you wont be playing on anyway.

The only two things I can think of that incapacitate you and then be ok are a kick to the nuts and being winded.

They should stop being such wimps, its embarrassing.

Ref's are not doctors, it is unfair and unrealistic to ask them to make a snap decision on whether or not they really are injured, therefore leading to more mistakes and more criticism for the men in black. You're making it far too complicated.
If you nee treatment, you have to be subbed.

Either that or allow physios on during play like rugby and then there's no advantage to be gained by faking injury, all they will do is leave them a man down.

Well Poll and Ivanov have been sent home, so have a dozen others but they havent been named yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5108722.stm

:handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

:handclap: :handclap: :handclap:
no, son. too little, too late.

Incidently the spaniard that grosso pai...err fooled got the marquee matchup this weekend - brazil/france

I blame FIFA, not the referees. They told the referees to issue more cards, and they got it. Some deserved, some not and some should have been more severe. The time to introduce new initiatives is not just before a major tournament. It never works. What we're seeing is what will happen every time a referee is thrown into games of the highest importance enforcing a standard of which he is not used to.

What FIFA needs to do, is start their new initiatives for 2010 NOW, in EVERY league FIFA encompasses.

Another note, Sepp Blatter is a ****ing moron. The referees are doing what they've been told to by FIFA, and Blatter has the nerve to say something immature (Ivanov deserves a yellow card) to the media? All he did was embarass the association he leads. God help us all if he gets another term as FIFA President.

Agreed :) Blatter in particular is an ***, the way he attacks referees.

The referees need more help, not more criticism. Top of my list would be bringing in post-game suspensions based on video evidence. Players are diving everywhere and dont care at all if video evidence showed they faked it because there's very little consequence other than a very rare yellow card. However if they know that they could be suspended from the next game for faking an injury, it would disappear overnight. I'd apply exactly the same principle to surrounding the ref / showing cards to the ref. Those two things are really spoiling the game from my perspective.

Blatter wants two referees in future.

Link (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373294&cc=5739)

Absolute genius, that Blatter eh? :clap:

I liked this quote:

'We observe the situation in ice hockey, for instance, with two referees and two assistants on a much smaller arena and they have no [personality] clashes with the players because they know the game.'

:dunce:

Why oh why will they not bring in video evidence with suspensions for clear dives? Those dives by C.Ronaldo and Postiga against France were perfect examples of dives meriting 10 game bans. They'll soon stop.

Blatter wants two referees in future.

Link (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373294&cc=5739)

Absolute genius, that Blatter eh? :clap:

I liked this quote:



:dunce:

Why oh why will they not bring in video evidence with suspensions for clear dives? Those dives by C.Ronaldo and Postiga against France were perfect examples of dives meriting 10 game bans. They'll soon stop.

Don't forget Ribery and Henry's "embellishment" ;)