[WC] Group H -> 1/ Spain - 2/ Ukraine

14/06
Spain 4-0 Ukraine (3 PM)
Tunisia 2-2 Saudi A. (6 PM)

19/06
Saudi A. 0-4 Ukraine (6 PM)
Spain 3-1 Tunisia (9 PM)

23/06
Spain 1-0 Saudi A. (4 PM)
Ukraine 1-0 Tunisia (4 PM)

1- Spain 9 pts, +7
2- Ukraine 6 pt, +1
3- Tunisia 1 pt, -1
4- Saudi Arabia 1 pt, -5

This one is easy
Spain/Ukraine should go thru with ease

I disagree.
Tunisia could be a threat. That said, their two best strikers are in danger of missing. Jomaa is already out for sure, and Santos (who is as tunisian as you and me) has injured himself today and is questionnable.

spain always underachieves and ukraine hasn't had to play hard in quite some time. before they qualified, ukraine were unstoppable...but i think that wave has crashed now. they are still a good squad, but not as good as at the end of 2005

tunisia can play. i'll say that they go through, along with one of the two aforementioned nations.

Spain and Ukraine

Ukraine and Spain

Tunisia will give it a run but Ukraine and Spain should advance.

Spain has tons to prove (as always). Ukraine is hungry and eager to show the world that they are poised to become a soccer power.

ESP 1 UKR 2

TUN 1 Saudi Arabia 0

spain and ukraine will go through imo.

spain will probably get bounced in the next round since they are always underachievers

Spain (with 9 points) and Ukraine

I will go on a limb here with my homer prediction.


It'll be Ukraine and Tunisia that go through.

Mariano Pernia is a starter for Spain right? :D
and yes this is a fantasy question

Spain look like an unsettled side. It seems that many positions are up for grabs. Will it all come together? It rarely has. Tunisia is at now or never time for a break through. They have experience and some talent. Ukraine should prove tough and could go anywhere between 1st and 3rd. The Saudi's are man for man the worst team in the tourney but hopefully they will not take another 8-0 drubbing like 2002.

I'm looking at Spain and Ukraine going through with Ukraine upsetting Spain to take the group.

Why oh why do we have to be in the very last group? The wait is killing me :banghead:

On the other hand, it might be a good thing, as it gives Sheva more time to recover from his knee injury. He is still doubtful to start against Spain, according to head coach Oleg Blokhin. Even if he doesn't start, he'll probably come on in the second half (unless Ukraine has a comfortable lead, which is unlikely)

The most predictable group by some distance. How they can get two minnows in the same group when you fit Serbia and Ivory Coast in the same spots in another group is beyond me.

Spain - Again, underachievers but will make the quarters.
Ukraine - If Shev gets injured, they're screwed. If he doesn't and they combine it with a bit of luck, they make actually make a decent fist of it. Probably out in second round though.
Tunisia - Not good by any means, but not as bad as the Arabs.
Saudi Arabia - Just dreadful. If anything, they're worse than the team that lost 8-0 to Germany 4 years ago.

Tunisia - Not good by any means, but not as bad as the Arabs.

:shakehead

Tunisia - Not good by any means, but not as bad as the Arabs.

In a group full of mystery, you have to give them a big chance. They have a shot at going through especially if the other 2 tie their game. Tunisia is expected to go home, but Spain is expected to go through. Which scenario seems more likely....

The way Spain has played in previous tourneys, Tunisia has a great chance of going thru.

:shakehead

what?

Spain look like an unsettled side. It seems that many positions are up for grabs. Will it all come together? It rarely has.It will depend on the first few games. They have loads of talent, but no formation experience yet because so much is up for grabs. If their formation starts clicking in the beginning, you can expect a nice run. Otherwise, be prepared for a crash.

what?
You once again don't know what you're talking about.
Tunisia is hardly a pushover.
They're a good squad. Not a contender, but a solid squad with a coach that has actually won something big.

You once again don't know what you're talking about.
Tunisia is hardly a pushover.
They're a good squad. Not a contender, but a solid squad with a coach that has actually won something big.

Honestly fella, do you seriously think they're better than Spain and the Ukraine? They're not a good side. They're not a terrible side. They're a 3rd in their group at the World Cup side.

Nope, they might not be better, but the best teams don't necessarily go through.

Stop living in neverland fella. Tunisia could go through but to suggest they're a good side is a little OTT.

Stop living in neverland fella. Tunisia could go through but to suggest they're a good side is a little OTT.
You don't know what you're talking about.
How many times have you seen Tunisia?
They're a good side. Certainly not a contender, but a good gamble to cause problems.
Maybe they won't, but they have the potential to.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Pot, meet kettle.

How many times have you seen Tunisia?

Plenty of times, you don't realise how much football i watch do you?

They're a good side. Certainly not a contender, but a good gamble to cause problems.
Maybe they won't, but they have the potential to.

Is it uncomfortable sitting on that fence? So they may do well, but they may not? Thanks for that excellent tip there. I class as good side as one from world ranking 20 and above.

Is it uncomfortable sitting on that fence? So they may do well, but they may not? Thanks for that excellent tip there. I class as good side as one from world ranking 20 and above.I hope you're not talking about the FIFA ranking...

Pot, meet kettle.
Plenty of times, you don't realise how much football i watch do you?
Is it uncomfortable sitting on that fence? So they may do well, but they may not? Thanks for that excellent tip there. I class as good side as one from world ranking 20 and above.
See, everything is not black or right.
Tunisia have a good team.
But like any team, they could underachieve.
I think that if every team in this group plays up to its potential, Spain should finish first and Ukraine will have a tough battle to edge Tunisia.

I hope you're not talking about the FIFA ranking...

God no, the real top 20 teams

ESPN reported that Sheva declared himself fit to play, Oleg Blokhin still insists that it will be a game-time decision. I wonder if he is just blowing smoke about the whole thing, trying to confuse Aragones :)

Tunisia will start without its top two strikers (injured).

Tunisia will start without its top two strikers (injured).
Santos is out too? :eek:

Yes he is according to L'Equipe.

Kicker has Chikhaoui and Jaziri starting.

Kicker has Chikhaoui and Jaziri starting.

Yep, that's what Lemerre indicated.

Ouch, Santos is a bit of a loss, still, Tunisia are the strongest and most experienced African nation at the Finals and for me can qualify for the next phase. Solid all over with a coupla game breakers, and in a group riddled with inconsistent performers, they can make it through.

Raul's not playing today is he? (At work not able to see the first two games :( )

Both teams with decent chances in the box early.

Nice flow so far

And no he isn't starting Tuggy.

Raul's not playing today is he? (At work not able to see the first two games :( )

He's not, Torres and Villa start. Casillas captains.

Raul's not playing today is he? (At work not able to see the first two games :( )

He's on the bench.

I heard that he was still feeling an injury. Is that the reason he starts on the bench or is there something else going on?

2-0 Spain.

Was that shot deflected off a Ukraine defender?

If not then then now I see why the goalkeepers hate this ball, that thing had some sick movement.

It definitely hit the wall. Why do Spain's fans continually whistle the Ukraine forwards? They're up 2-0. Did the one of the Ukraine players do something objectionable?

Wow, the worlds biggest chokers aren't living up to their reputation so far.

This result would assure they go through.

That offsides call was crap and at least 2 of the others have been questionable.

Yep, it's not his day, I guess.

The Good
Awesome play by Spain. I have to say this is the most impressive performance by any team thus far. From the wing backs to the three midfielders and the three forwards, they are all moving around great and they always find space because of this. So many switches in position, constantly confusing the Ukraine defense... really impressive how they moved the ball around, best passing I've seen.

The Bad
The defense of Spain still needs some work. Puyol's playing as if he's at Barça but it's clear that Pablo and especially Ramos haven't yet adapted completely to Puyol's frequent rushes towards the ball, they should move along with him but are often caught playing the forward on side.

However:
The Ugly
The assistent gave 6 (I believe) off sides and at I think four were wrong and would have made good chances. Very sad as Ukraine must feel hard done by.

The officiating so far in these games has been awful.

The Good
Awesome play by Spain. I have to say this is the most impressive performance by any team thus far. From the wing backs to the three midfielders and the three forwards, they are all moving around great and they always find space because of this. So many switches in position, constantly confusing the Ukraine defense... really impressive how they moved the ball around, best passing I've seen.

The Bad
The defense of Spain still needs some work. Puyol's playing as if he's at Barça but it's clear that Pablo and especially Ramos haven't yet adapted completely to Puyol's frequent rushes towards the ball, they should move along with him but are often caught playing the forward on side.

However:
The Ugly
The assistent gave 6 (I believe) off sides and at I think four were wrong and would have made good chances. Very sad as Ukraine must feel hard done by.

Most offside calls were very marginal and it completly undone the Ukaine's offense.

Holy crap, how is that a penalty? WHAT it's a red card? There wasn't even any contact!

This game is over and I hate to say it but the refs had a big say in it. Spain played much better than the Ukraine but the refs left their imprint on this one.

That was one of the worst penalty decisions I've ever seen, the player just fell over by himself. A red card too, that ref should never get another game in international football ever again.

That was one of the worst penalty decisions I've ever seen, the player just fell over by himself. A red card too, that ref should never get another game in international football ever again.

Even from my terrible tv angle I couldn't conclude at first if there was any contact, I don't see how you give a penalty and a red card when you can't see anything?

That was one of the worst penalty decisions I've ever seen, the player just fell over by himself. A red card too, that ref should never get another game in international football ever again.

QFT, awful penalty. :rant:

A truly shocking decision. :madfire:

Is this FIFAs attempt to redress the appalling decision by the linesman when Spain played Korea in 2002 ?

Steve is right.This fool & the linesman (whos already given 3 incorrect offsides) should never be allowed to officiate again at this level.

Spain are definitely not worth a 3-0 lead .Both 1st half goals should have been stopped.

I guess that's the football gods retribution to Spain for all those disallowed good goals against Korea four years ago? :dunno:

Yesterday Zidane holding his face when no contact was made with it. Today Pablo clutching his when Shevchenko made no contact with him with his foot up.

Retrospective punishment via video panel (a very heavy fine & suspension)for all cheats of all teams needs to be introduced to cut this out.

Is Ukraine expected to come in 2nd in this pool?

Is Ukraine expected to come in 2nd in this pool?

Yes,
They played awful today, however I expect them to beat Tunisia and Saudi A to finish with 6points.

Is Ukraine expected to come in 2nd in this pool?


I had predicted Tunisia to come out of this group. Ukraine is another massively overrated European team.

Well it was a very harsh decision to give the penalty. However there was some contact, you could see it on the angle from behind. Vashcuck did pull him slighlty. However Torres made the most of it by waiting and falling 5m further (thus making it a penalty).

Overall the ref was very good I thought if you consider that there WAS contact - albeit not enough for the penalty- he was always close to the play and didn't made that many silly decisions I thought.


The linesmen are a different story, that's for sure. If Shevchenko's looks could kill there would have been two less linesmen at the end, and I can completely understand him.




Anyway, Spain played great and what pleased me most is that they continued playing and pushing forward even when the game was over. Nice to see them not sitting back and making the most of this game (take note Sven.)

:clap:

I had predicted Tunisia to come out of this group. Ukraine is another massively overrated European team.

Who overrated Ukraine right here?

This was always going to be a battle between Tunesia and Ukraine, nothing has changed from that perspective

Torres needs to lose the mohawk, looks awful.

Who overrated Ukraine right here?

This was always going to be a battle between Tunesia and Ukraine, nothing has changed from that perspective


Experts, pundits, whatever you wanna call them.

Look at it this way, if Tunisia beats Ukraine, all the headlines will say 'Tunisia upsets Ukraine' or something along those lines.

Torres needs to lose the mohawk, looks awful.

He's always had bad hairstyles.

This is a further developed version of this mohawk:
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/fredag/2004/06/25/torresXart280.jpg


Dumb blonde coupe
http://www.clubatleticodemadridsad.com/photos/players/Torres_Fernando/torres_listen.jpg
http://www.clubatleticodemadridsad.com/photos/players/Torres_Fernando/torres_face.jpg


This is an earlier: coupe espana
http://www.segundosfuera.com/img/futbol/fernando_torres.jpg

Experts, pundits, whatever you wanna call them.

Look at it this way, if Tunisia beats Ukraine, all the headlines will say 'Tunisia upsets Ukraine' or something along those lines.

Doubt it actually, although Tunisia is unlucky with injuries they are still the second best African team and are bound to have some succes. I like their team, loads of technique, great coach, and a few guys that can score.

I think both teams are about equal, it will depend on the form of the day.

Spain definitely deserved the win today, two quick goals pretty much put the game away. But the reffing... I'm just speechless. Never mind the offsides, some of them were very close calls, but the penalty and the red card is the single most horrible mistake of the WC so far. That completely killed any chance Ukraine had of at least getting out of the game with their honor intact.

Torres needs to lose the mohawk, looks awful.

Can't be as bad as Loco from Angola.

http://www.espn.go.com/i/page2/photos2/loco_angola_245x325.jpg

Well it was a very harsh decision to give the penalty. However there was some contact, you could see it on the angle from behind. Vashcuck did pull him slighlty. However Torres made the most of it by waiting and falling 5m further (thus making it a penalty).





There was a quick little tug on the shirt right BEFORE they entered the penalty area. That's it. Nothing afterwards. Terrible call. If you want to call that, it's a free kick and a yellow.

There was a quick little tug on the shirt right BEFORE they entered the penalty area. That's it. Nothing afterwards. Terrible call. If you want to call that, it's a free kick and a yellow.

Well yeah, I'm not saying it's not a bad call, I was just saying that there was contact.

However when he blew his whistle it was always going to be red.

What he should have done is not give anything obviously, he hardly touched him and Torres wasn't hindered as he continued first.


Ye once the ref made his mind up that there was some sort of foul he could only give a red card as Torres was clean through. As for the pealty that obviously wasn't one in ANY circumstance as the contact was outside the area.

Well yeah, I'm not saying it's not a bad call, I was just saying that there was contact. Thats the sad thing, contact does not equal a foul although FIFA would love that.

He just fell over in the process of kicking the ball. If players choose to go down with minimal contact, they should be booked (although it wasn't the case here).

Horrible oficiating!!!

This ref got the 1st big decision right, the Tunisian dived and made it look very good, no penalty.

This ref got the 1st big decision right, the Tunisian dived and made it look very good, no penalty.

i dont know what replay you saw but that was definitly a penalty.

the penalty for spain however wasnt, even though i heard some "experts" saying that he called the pulling of his shorts that mustve happened before.. i havent seen it so im not goin to comment.
what i saw was that in the first half there shouldve been 2 penalties for spain, which kinda negates his , what seems like, wrong decision.

and the 1-0 for tunisia shouldnt have counted.. yes, the player who was standing right infront of the goal didnt participate in the game and was inactive.. but he irritated the goalie by ducking down thusfar making him active, and that means offside.
but i guess its retribution for the penalty that was not given.

Looks like the Saudi's just got one.

i dont know what replay you saw but that was definitly a penalty. He brushed him and took a major dive. That is a perfect example of a player trying to cheat with minimal contact. All the replays showed it.

Yesterday Zidane holding his face when no contact was made with it.

I know that this is off topic, but was Zidane holding his face more than once in that game? Because when I saw him do that, it was right after a very obvious contact. With what, I'm not sure, but the impact looked pretty clear to me and you could even see some of Zidane's spit flying around due to it in the slow motion replay, real boxing style. ;)

It wasn't that big of a hit, though, and I do think that Zidane was exaggerating it.

As for the afternoon's match, that goal by Torres was easily top 3 in the tournament so far. Fantastic team play with an extra honorable mention to Puyol. :handclap:

Spain is looking real good, but then again I'm not sure Ukraine made a good reference point today.

What a moment for the Saudis!! Al-Jaber just comes on, and within minutes he puts the ball in the back of the net. This was a game I didn't anticipate on watching, but it has turned out to be a very exciting one.

Let's see if Tunisia can come back in the closing minutes.

2-1 Saudi with 5 minutes left :eek:

So who was thinking Tunisia would qualify?

This is great news for Ukraine.

Saudi Arabia! Tunisia has almost no sense of urgency, and it may have cost them the game.

See, everything is not black or right.
Tunisia have a good team.
But like any team, they could underachieve.
I think that if every team in this group plays up to its potential, Spain should finish first and Ukraine will have a tough battle to edge Tunisia.

Yeh, they've been simply stunning today.....

I had predicted Tunisia to come out of this group. Ukraine is another massively overrated European team.

Tunisia is another massively overrated African team.

Tunis!

2-2, still a bad result for them as they will have to take at least a point off Spain.

Now that's what makes the World Cup so good.

Wow, this has been a fantastic match. Saudi nearly made it 3-1, before Tunisia goes down the pitch to make it 2-2. Saudi is mounting a frantic attack as I write this, and come close.

2-2 FInal. Outstanding stuff!

Trabelsi wasn't playing very good, even though he isn't fully healthy. I expect him to be of greater value vs Spain and Ukraine.

Wow, what a finish!

As i predicted, Tunisia were poor and struggled to a draw against arguably the poorest side in this World Cup.

Ukraine are favourites to go through for second place then. I mean what could have been a really bad day for them has actually turned out alright. They have been let off.
I'd be suprised if Ukraine didn't manage to beat Tunisia and Saudi A.

Wow, what a finish!
Yeah it was so good because both teams knew a draw was a useless result for them.

I still think Ukraine will go through by beating the Saudis and getting at least a draw against Tunisia.

Yeah it was so good because both teams knew a draw was a useless result for them.

I still think Ukraine will go through by beating the Saudis and getting at least a draw against Tunisia.

Sorry for me thinking it was an exciting finish.

against arguably the poorest side in this World Cup.

Not by a long shot.. Just pick a random opponent from the Mickey Mouse pool Germany is in and you have a worse one..

Not by a long shot.. Just pick a random opponent from the Mickey Mouse pool Germany is in and you have a worse one..

I wouldn't say that Poland or Ecuador are even close to being as poor as the Arabs. Costa Rica on the other hand are up there...

2-1 Saudi with 5 minutes left :eek:

Whoops, spoke too soon :D

Whoops, spoke too soon :D
Its all your fault. :teach:

Sorry for me thinking it was an exciting finish.Eh?

Its all your fault. :teach:

I am ashamed ;)

Well I thought it wasnt a penalty and so did the commentators. He chose to go down so it was a dive and thus, no penalty.

I dont expect penalties to be given for touching people, I expect them to be given for fouls.

Yeh, they've been simply stunning today.....
They weren't as good, but as soon as I heard Santos was out, I could have guessed it.
Still rather than Tunisia choking, I'd say Saudi Arabia did suprisingly well. :handclap:

Eh?

Sorry, I thought your last comment was sarcastic. I was still a little dissapointed at the Ukraine game I guess. My bad. :innocent:

Consider me a bandwagon Spain fan. What a fun group of guys to watch.

Caught this game live this morning. MAN OH MAN WHAT A GAME!!!

Sorry, I thought your last comment was sarcastic. I was still a little dissapointed at the Ukraine game I guess. My bad. :innocent:
I don't blame you, I'm usually sarcastic but this was one time that I wasn't.

Can you belive I turned the TV off in the 85th minute thinking the Saudis had it won. I missed quite a finish.
This game was one of the best so far IMO. I would have never expected it

Wow! What a performance from Spain and what a bunch of moaning in this thread. Spain pwned them w/o any help from the officials. They could have put four past the Ukraine w/o the red card. Anybody who thinks otherwise must already have had some sort of anti-Spain sentiments. If you can honestly look yourself in the mirror and say Spain wouldn't have won w/o the refs, then good luck. The minnow ***-kissing in these threads is getting really old fast.

Spain looked really good and I don't even think they've hit top gear yet. Love the formation and love Aragones' selection. I love how the three strikers are so interchangeable. Then so is the midfield. There's also a ton of talent on the bench in Iniesta, Judas, Raul (where he belongs BTW, the bench), etc. If Spain keep this up they're gonna give anybody trouble. Can't wait until they play again.

The Good
Awesome play by Spain. I have to say this is the most impressive performance by any team thus far. From the wing backs to the three midfielders and the three forwards, they are all moving around great and they always find space because of this. So many switches in position, constantly confusing the Ukraine defense... really impressive how they moved the ball around, best passing I've seen.

The Bad
The defense of Spain still needs some work. Puyol's playing as if he's at Barça but it's clear that Pablo and especially Ramos haven't yet adapted completely to Puyol's frequent rushes towards the ball, they should move along with him but are often caught playing the forward on side.

However:
The Ugly
The assistent gave 6 (I believe) off sides and at I think four were wrong and would have made good chances. Very sad as Ukraine must feel hard done by.

I hadn't read the good until now. Seems we agree.

I don't think the defense needs much work at all. I think they were largely on the same page and they're playing a high line as a group. I don't think it's just down to Puyol. Puyol does like to get stuck in early though, so maybe. Still a very solid backline. Strength, pace, height, skill. Damn I wish we'd have gotten Ramos instead of Madrid. Hell, I'm still pissed we didn't get Villa either.

I don't recall four of them, but I do recall a few. Still with the line that high on some of them there are no guarantees. As for the red card, the only thing I can think of is the ref was calling the tug on Torres' shorts. Definate yellow starting with this WC. I also don't think Torres milked it. I think he lost his footing on the shot (and even stepped on the defenders foot).

One more thing about Puyol getting forward... what a run that was on the last goal! Winning the ball, the 360 and an assist.

Spain looked really good and I don't even think they've hit top gear yet. Love the formation and love Aragones' selection. I love how the three strikers are so interchangeable. Then so is the midfield. There's also a ton of talent on the bench in Iniesta, Judas, Raul (where he belongs BTW, the bench), etc. If Spain keep this up they're gonna give anybody trouble. Can't wait until they play again.

Yep, it's a very hybrid concept, 4-3-3 at times and then the next play Garcia would be in the hole in a 4-4-2 diamond esque format. At times it was even a 'christmas tree' with Torres the deep man and Garcia and Villa behind him.

This works great without Raul because all three forwards are extremely mobile right now and go to the flanks when needed or when the deep ball is played there. This allows the midfielders to focus on the centre of the pitch where Xavi did some excellent playmaking and Marcos Senna was awesome at times. Xabi was quiet but still very effective with his passing.
And the bonus from these three 'central' midfielders was that there were huge gaps on the flanks for Ramos and Pernia to move into. And with all that passing quality in the midfield those open spaces were found with ease.
Great to watch all of that.

The only question is of course how weak Ukraine was, the first big test is likely to wait until the next round.



I don't think the defense needs much work at all. I think they were largely on the same page and they're playing a high line as a group. I don't think it's just down to Puyol. Puyol does like to get stuck in early though, so maybe. Still a very solid backline. Strength, pace, height, skill. Damn I wish we'd have gotten Ramos instead of Madrid. Hell, I'm still pissed we didn't get Villa either.

I wasn't blaming Puyol at all, he's at his best when agressively targeting the ball. However the rest should be aware of that, and especially Ramos was slow reacting to Puyol thus playing the forward on side on three occasions.




I don't recall four of them, but I do recall a few. Still with the line that high on some of them there are no guarantees. As for the red card, the only thing I can think of is the ref was calling the tug on Torres' shorts. Definate yellow starting with this WC. I also don't think Torres milked it. I think he lost his footing on the shot (and even stepped on the defenders foot).

I saw a stat of 6 offsides called in the first half (I made that post at half time) and on the replays 4 were faulty.

I agree, Torres didn't really dive, however he could have come out and said it wasn't a penalty. But then again he's not Robbie Fowler ( :handclap: )



One more thing about Puyol getting forward... what a run that was on the last goal! Winning the ball, the 360 and an assist.

Great play and great goal indeed!

The real reason for the loss of the Ukraine:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060614/od_nm/ukraine_frogs_dc;_ylt=Ato7IBEEFCt1I8cb1ZS8u7ntiBIF ;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-

Ukraine's World Cup players complained Tuesday that frogs were disturbing the sleep of the squad at their lakeside hotel in Potsdam.

"We have agreed we will take fishing rods to hunt these frogs," said Vashchyuk.


:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Yep, it's a very hybrid concept, 4-3-3 at times and then the next play Garcia would be in the hole in a 4-4-2 diamond esque format. At times it was even a 'christmas tree' with Torres the deep man and Garcia and Villa behind him.

I felt they maintained the 4-3-3 for most of the match. Just a lot of movement though. All the guys up front worked well anywhere they shifted to. Not the same formation, but they looked a lot like Brazil's second half from the other day with all that movement. Spain actually had a lot more movement what with Fatnaldo standing around all day.

This works great without Raul because all three forwards are extremely mobile right now and go to the flanks when needed or when the deep ball is played there. This allows the midfielders to focus on the centre of the pitch where Xavi did some excellent playmaking and Marcos Senna was awesome at times. Xabi was quiet but still very effective with his passing.
And the bonus from these three 'central' midfielders was that there were huge gaps on the flanks for Ramos and Pernia to move into. And with all that passing quality in the midfield those open spaces were found with ease.
Great to watch all of that.

Totally agree with you. The only thing I'd add is that all three of the midfielders can defend as well. They're not out and out DM's so much, but they all are quite good defensively.

The great thing about Ramos and Pernia getting forward is that both are quite adept at doing so. They can both pass the ball, but they can also both make runs with it. Of course both are very solid defensively as well, which is great when you've got attacking backs. You know this is Ramos' more natural position. Damn I wish we'd have gone after him. He'd be the perfect fit at Barça. Then so would Pernia and we didn't move for him either. :shakehead

The only question is of course how weak Ukraine was, the first big test is likely to wait until the next round.

I wasn't blaming Puyol at all, he's at his best when agressively targeting the ball. However the rest should be aware of that, and especially Ramos was slow reacting to Puyol thus playing the forward on side on three occasions.

I think they'll be ready for their first test. Aragones really looks to have them prepared mentally and I think that they'll gain even more confidence as this round goes on. The Raul sub was just perfect as Villa had his goals and it was a good way of getting Raul some minutes and help to build his confidence. Still you're right, they have yet to face a big test.

No, I agree with you. I think it's that along with the fact that the line was played so high.

I saw a stat of 6 offsides called in the first half (I made that post at half time) and on the replays 4 were faulty.

I agree, Torres didn't really dive, however he could have come out and said it wasn't a penalty. But then again he's not Robbie Fowler ( :handclap: )

Great play and great goal indeed!

I'd have to go back and check out the replays. I remember 2 bad calls, but I wasn't counting. I think that had a lot to do with the high line they were playing.

He's not Robbie Fowler. He's not on smack. :D Though with that hair...

I think Puyol was thinking "it's my turn to be Ronaldinho." I was just glad to see him get the assist. When he used to make those runs up the right flank with Barça (back in the day as a RB) they never had the end result.

The real reason for the loss of the Ukraine:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060614/od_nm/ukraine_frogs_dc;_ylt=Ato7IBEEFCt1I8cb1ZS8u7ntiBIF ;_ylu=X3oDMTA0cDJlYmhvBHNlYwM-



:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Vaschuk will now have plenty of time to hunt for frogs.

Go Ukraina Go!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's win this one, boys!!!!!!! Go Sheva!!!!!!!!

Never mind the offsides, some of them were very close calls, but the penalty and the red card is the single most horrible mistake of the WC so far. That completely killed any chance Ukraine had of at least getting out of the game with their honor intact.I'm completely behind you here.

And i can't resist from repeating what i've stated in the past already.
The 'penalty shot + red card' rule is the most idiotic rule i have seen in soccer (even when the foul is there).
And it goes absolutely against the show and the fans' entertainment, btw.

2-0 Ukraine

Shevchenko makes it 3-0.

Comedy dive by one of the Saudis, the player was nowhere near him as he fell and the ref rightly gave him a yellow.

Sheva goes out, Diverman goes in.

And just like that, Ukraine now has an even goal differential. :biglaugh:

Tunisia is in big trouble now. They're gonna need a result against Spain + a victory againt Ukraine.

Sheva goes out, Diverman goes in.

And his very first run ends in a monumental dive inside the box :biglaugh:

"Expect a different performance this time – that is the message from Saudi Arabia coach Marcos Paqueta as he looks ahead to Monday's game with Ukraine in Hamburg. "

No kidding, it was a different performance!!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060618/1/7so5.html

Obviously, I'm pleased with the result- 3 points, goal differential is back to zero. I'm even more pleased with the way the team responded after that humiliation, they charged forward right from the get-go, got the early goal. Sheva seems to be shaking off his rust slowly but surely, and Kalinichenko was simply superb. Defense is a major concern though. We lost out best defender Sergei Fedorov (no relation ;) ) before the World Cup, Vaschuk was suspended, 3 (!!!) other centerbacks are injured as we speak. I've never seen Ukraine play with 3 men at the back like they did today, those were the only 3 defenders available for the game! Even though the Saudis failed to register a single shot on goal, every time the ball was in our box everybody went into a panic mode :shakehead

Here comes the rain...

This is why people tend to be leery to pick Spain...

This would be a dreadful loss.

Les Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Raul!

Another GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Wow, this goal by Torres was a beauty!

PK GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL by Torres

Damn it.
That last penalty gave me 45 points out of 60 possible points instead of 50. :D

Anyway, the ref was once again absolutely horrible.

That right there is why I'm a bandwagon Spain fan. We saw it against Ukraine and we saw it against Tunesia: these guys are just so fun to watch. Between Torres, Fabregas, Alonso, Xavi, Joaquin--something's always happening, somebody's always about to score.

Obviously, I'm pleased with the result- 3 points, goal differential is back to zero. I'm even more pleased with the way the team responded after that humiliation, they charged forward right from the get-go, got the early goal. Sheva seems to be shaking off his rust slowly but surely, and Kalinichenko was simply superb. Defense is a major concern though. We lost out best defender Sergei Fedorov (no relation ;) ) before the World Cup, Vaschuk was suspended, 3 (!!!) other centerbacks are injured as we speak. I've never seen Ukraine play with 3 men at the back like they did today, those were the only 3 defenders available for the game! Even though the Saudis failed to register a single shot on goal, every time the ball was in our box everybody went into a panic mode :shakehead

Are these 3 injuries coming back into contention for selection ? Shame about Fedorov like Vidic for Serbia a key in their otherwise tight defences. I think Ukraine can make the QFs no problem & all looks well for the longer term too if the u21s can progress into the senior ranks.

Spain are still unconvincing at the back.Casillas has to be one of the best keepers around .Shame he isn't Argentinian.We could do with him. ;)

Boumnigel had 2 shockers & 2 great saves.Unfortunately no one remembers the good saves only the howlers.

Not by a long shot.. Just pick a random opponent from the Mickey Mouse pool Germany is in and you have a worse one..

Do you still honestly believe that?

Do you still honestly believe that?
You saw the game?
Because your "little" Tunisia was leading until the 71st minute.... :sarcasm:

That right there is why I'm a bandwagon Spain fan. We saw it against Ukraine and we saw it against Tunesia: these guys are just so fun to watch. Between Torres, Fabregas, Alonso, Xavi, Joaquin--something's always happening, somebody's always about to score.

Very true. It is an exciting team to watch especially with these young guys wanting to drive to the net looking for goals. Heck, even Raul looked inspired out there and played as if he was 22 again.

This Spain team doesn't give up and may put all those previous disappointments to rest.

Look out for Spain...

Look out for Spain...
I'm not saying it's not true (because it is), but it's what we've been saying in basically every major tournament for 20 years. And nothing to show for it.

I'm not saying it's not true (because it is), but it's what we've been saying in basically every major tournament for 20 years. And nothing to show for it.

Entirely different generation stepping up now though. Same with Holland, though they haven't been nearly as impressive.

In 86 and 00 it was supposed to be a "different generation" too.

I'm not saying it's not true (because it is), but it's what we've been saying in basically every major tournament for 20 years. And nothing to show for it.

You are right, but there is something about this team, the way they can totally dominate the game and almost score at will. Previous Spanish teams looked hesitant and scared to score but with guys like Torres, Alonso and Fabregas, this is an exciting team to watch. They just know how to go forward.

However, they could end up choking like before but... I think they will demolish whoever they play in round 2 and then after that it's up for grabs. If they don't win it this year, they will certainly make a run in the upcoming Euros and the next WC.

Ukraine and Tunisia were just appetizers.

I don't think they'll demolish anyone in the next round.
They'll have to face one of Korea/Switzerland/France.
Switzerland and France may be offensively challenged (never though I'd say that with Henry and Trez on the same team, but...), but they're rock solid defensively, much more than Ukraine and Tunisia.
In fact, I thought yesterday's game showed what a good defensive team had to do against Spain.
Tunisia is good on the offense (remember, their top two strikers are out), but their D is shaky and they have trouble holding leads.
Yet Spain were lead for more than an hour.

I've really enjoyed watching Spain play so far this year. I'm rootin for them to make some noise.

Spain dominated possession and still created a ton of chances. They keep doing that the goals will come. I could see Joaquin and Cesc starting by the time the knockout stages start (replacing Garcia and Senna respectively) and that would certainly make them more dangerous.

Are these 3 injuries coming back into contention for selection ?

Probably not for the Tunisia game. The only one coming back is the suspended Vaschuk. Which is subtraction by addition, he is horrible.

Oh boy, another crappy referee on display in Tunisia - Ukraine, that second yellow was completely ridiculous.

Either way Ukraine looked in control anyway. Boumnijell looks out of sorts and with Jaidi possible injured Ukraine won't let this slip away.

As Lee Dixon said, he should have been sent off for the dive.

The booking for the Ukraine CB for the headed challenge and the 2nd yellow for the sending off were insane.

Their ripping into the rules now basically saying you cant make any kind of challenge for fear of an inept official sending you off.

Totally true, bookings should be for deliberate fouls, not honest challenges.

I still wonder how the ref found that second yellow card foul dangerous or brutal.
It was completely bogus.

I started the first few games of the WC by praising the refs, but since then, there hasn't been a single game with decent reffing.
Absolutely horrible.

And to think some are whining about L1 refs! They're a hundred time better than this WC's refs.

To be fair Evilo I think it's not the refs but rather the instructions they get. FIFA's the ones to blame, not the refs themselves. I've never seen some of the European refs on display give out yellows like that, it's clearly been instructed by FIFA.

Another one...
Timoshuk makes a tackle and gets the yellow :shakehead


PATHETIC

Rusol goes for the ball ... yellow


:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

And on the free kick, a ukraine player deflects the ball with his hand for a corner.
You'd think the ref would give a penalty?
Nope!

You have to laugh, the refs so busy booking players for nothing tackles that he misses a blatant penalty for Tunisia. He jumped as high as he could to handball it yet its missed. :biglaugh:

Haha, Sheva falls two metres after the contact (if he'd dived a bit earlier it would have been a penalty) and now he still gets the penalty.

Sheva scores and ends the game.


Well done Mr. Ref :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

And yet another bogus call!
Sheva trips himself and get awarded a penalty!

Tunisia getting screwed here. I feel bad for them.

Total joke, what a dive.

It's not a dive. He tripped his right foot with his left foot.

Oh well, Sheva will fit in well with Robben, Drogba and the boys :biglaugh:

It's not a dive. He tripped his right foot with his left foot.

But did he do that intentionally when going down? It was certainly an "inventive" play, and he certainly appealed for the penalty after going down, so I have to wonder if that was intentional.

I can't beleive the ref missed the penalty for Tunisia as well. That could EASILY have been a red card IMHO and a penalty.

So let's see from a tunisian point of view :
- bogus second yellow which means a bogus red card.
- a penalty not whistled after a HUGE handball by an ukrainian that denied the shot the chance to go in.
- a bogus penalty that pretty much eliminated them

I think some day a team will sue the international federation for incompetent reffing.

But did he do that intentionally when going down? It was certainly an "inventive" play, and he certainly appealed for the penalty after going down, so I have to wonder if that was intentional.

I can't beleive the ref missed the penalty for Tunisia as well. That could EASILY have been a red card IMHO and a penalty.
I don't think it was intentional.

Another yellow.. Jaidi the victim of the ref this time.


A very fair match (not one bad challenge IIRC), I think it's about 9 yellows right now... :shakehead

So let's see from a tunisian point of view :
- bogus second yellow which means a bogus red card.
- a penalty not whistled after a HUGE handball by an ukrainian that denied the shot the chance to go in.
- a bogus penalty that pretty much eliminated them

I think some day a team will sue the international federation for incompetent reffing.

I'd add a red card to the Ukraninian for the handball. He stopped a VERY well taken free kick from a dangerous location with his arm, which to me is a red card.

It was a Ukraine penalty, the Tunisian kneed him causing him to kick the back of his other leg.

100% penalty.

I'd add a red card to the Ukraninian for the handball. He stopped a VERY well taken free kick from a dangerous location with his arm, which to me is a red card.
I didn't see this, where was he? Unless it is certainly going in if he didn't touch it, then it isn't a red card at all.

You saw the game?
Because your "little" Tunisia was leading until the 71st minute.... :sarcasm:

And ended the group with a massive one point, therefore proving me 100% correct.

The most predictable group by some distance. How they can get two minnows in the same group when you fit Serbia and Ivory Coast in the same spots in another group is beyond me.

Spain - Again, underachievers but will make the quarters.
Ukraine - If Shev gets injured, they're screwed. If he doesn't and they combine it with a bit of luck, they make actually make a decent fist of it. Probably out in second round though.
Tunisia - Not good by any means, but not as bad as the Arabs.
Saudi Arabia - Just dreadful. If anything, they're worse than the team that lost 8-0 to Germany 4 years ago.

Spot on again :)

Ukraine were pitiful. Just a pitiful display in virtually all areas of the game. They are cannon fodder in the round of 16. I had high hopes but they are so inconsistent from minute to minute it is hard to believe. Maybe it is just my frustration from watching another bad game. Too many of them in third round of group games. Just the way the tourney sets up.

Let's see. Tunisia leads Spain for 70 minutes and deserves at least a tie against Ukraine, and you say you're spot on.... :lol:

Again, you should hide under a rock.

BTW, where's your Ghana prediction?

It was a Ukraine penalty, the Tunisian kneed him causing him to kick the back of his other leg.

100% penalty.
Honeslty no.
The german commentator made it clear and he had multiple replays form different angles.
Nobody touches Sheva on this play.

Let's see. Tunisia leads Spain for 70 minutes and deserves at least a tie against Ukraine, and you say you're spot on.... :lol:

Again, you should hide under a rock.

BTW, where's your Ghana prediction?

Tunisia lead Spain but LOSE and deserve a point but LOSE. The difference between a good side and a poor side is taking the chances when they come to you. Tunisia have not impressed me and yet again, my prediction is 100% correct.

As for Ghana, don't know, i don't think i did one. I knew there was one group i forgot.

:biglaugh:

At least you provide good laughs.

BTW, did Spain win with 12 points out of 3 games this time? :lol:

Honeslty no.
The german commentator made it clear and he had multiple replays form different angles.
Nobody touches Sheva on this play.

He was touched, but not enough for a penalty.

:biglaugh:

At least you provide good laughs.

Meanwhile, your puppy-dog esque following of me is quite hilarious :)

The difference between me and you my mis-lead friend is that i end up being proved right, with facts. You have to rely on 'well, the ref was rubbish' to try and make yourself look right. It's not working is it?

BTW, did Spain win with 12 points out of 3 games this time? :lol:

Eh?

asian and african teams dont get calls against european teams.

asian and african teams dont get calls against european teams.

Because we're all out to get them :yo:

Ukraine were pitiful. Just a pitiful display in virtually all areas of the game. They are cannon fodder in the round of 16. I had high hopes but they are so inconsistent from minute to minute it is hard to believe. Maybe it is just my frustration from watching another bad game. Too many of them in third round of group games. Just the way the tourney sets up.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Ukraine doesn't deserve to be in the second round, but neither does Tunisia, if you want to be completely fair. The end is near though, with Rusol and Sviderskiy suspended for the next game, we are down to two eligible defenders in the entire squad. I hope that whoever we play makes it quick and painless...

He was touched, but not enough for a penalty.
You can knock over a player with one finger if you tap his ankles right, that's exactly what happened there. By the standards set for fouls in this WC, that's a clear penalty, it was shown that he was clipped, anyone else who thinks he wasnt is either blind or insane.

Should it ever be a penalty? No.

Spot on again :)

Spain underachived? IMO it's the complete opposite. I expect them to win two games and score 4-6 goals during the group phase. You could make a good case for Spain being the top team in the WC so far. Finally they seem to bring in all together at game time. I think that Spain will be either out in the ROTL16 or in the quarter or they will win it all.

Saudi Arabia wasn't dreadful and never received more than four goals. I'm not saying that are great, but the 2006 team might in fact been a little better than the 2002 edition.

Spain have impressed me more than i expected them to. Torres has been awesome and may well carry them to the semi's. Like Holland, England, France, Italy and Germany though, i don't think they're good enough to win it.

I don't think it was intentional.

It might not have been, but he did instantly look to get a call.
So while he might have just tripped and not thrown himself to the ground, he still did some acting on the fall. That part is clear as day.

I just have to wonder, after seeing this world cup, if all of soccer is this poorly officiated. Or if this is due to FIFA not getting the world's best refs. I would imagine it's the later, but this begs the question. Why do all the rabid soccer fans world-wide let FIFA get away with putting such horrible refs in the biggest tourney on the planet?