New Rule: No more Americans writing about "soccer"

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/14741693.htm


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Morons like that arn't worth responding to. For decent US-based soccer coverage both ESPN's Soccernet and CNNSI offer some decent writers with actual thought-out opinions.

They bash hockey. They bash soccer.

Some americans just can't take it when their not the best at sport.

If that guy is serious, I am embarrassed to be an American (again).

If that guy is serious, I am embarrassed to be an American (again).
Because of one guy's article? That's sad.

I'm not embarrased by that guy. He's too unoriginal to be embarrassing. "We're right, the rest of the world is wrong... blah blah blah..."

This guys is joking, right?

Please!?

Just an idiot's opinion, don't take it as he's speaking for all Americans. He sounds a lot like that tool from Orlando who wrote about hockey a few weeks ago.

What an idiot! :speechles

This exact column gets written repeatedly by various American Philistines every time there's a World Cup. It's stunningly unoriginal and magnificently dumb. So who cares? :dunno:

Hehe, kind of ironic that neither Cameroon nor Belgium will be at the World Cup so there won't be much dancing in the street here :)

:biglaugh:

I'm pretty sure he exaggerated to be funny and it worked well. It's probably the best column about soccer he could have writen considering he hates it. He did a good job to entertain me.

It's not really writen like an editorial, it's not to be taken seriously.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/14741693.htm


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:lol:

Just an idiot's opinion, don't take it as he's speaking for all Americans.

i agree...hes just one fool from Minnesota

Hehe, kind of ironic that neither Cameroon nor Belgium will be at the World Cup so there won't be much dancing in the street here :)



****** Belgiums and their dancing in the streets. :dunce:


I danced in the streets, the house, the backyard last may(I always dance when Liverpool win, but the European Cup and signifigant quanities of alcohol inspired the outdoor boogieing down). Never have got that excited about International soccer though. Maybe if the culture of consumption and ignorance wasn't so out of control here in America I would be behind the national team more.

Go Ingerland!

Ha. That's not the reason. The reason why many Americans bash soccer and to a lesser extent hockey, is because most people in America don't give a **** about either of those two sports. Americans are most definitely not trying to be the best at either of those sports.Definitely. That's the only valid reason i can think of as for sports where Americans are not the best.

On the contrary, countries like France, Italy, Brasil, etc.. suck at baseball despite trying as hard as they can, because they are just retarded and they can't even understand the rules.

On the contrary, countries like France, Italy, Brasil, etc.. suck at baseball despite trying as hard as they can, because they are just retarded and they can't even understand the rules.
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Since when is France trying hard to succeed at baseball?

I'll have to check the numbers, but I'm not sure there are more than 1.000 people playing baseball here.

EDIT : I was a bit harsh, apparently, there are less than 5.000.
Off a population of 60+ million people, these are weak numbers.
So the question remains : How are we trying hard?

Definitely. That's the only valid reason i can think of as for sports where Americans are not the best.

On the contrary, countries like France, Italy, Brasil, etc.. suck at baseball despite trying as hard as they can, because they are just retarded and they can't even understand the rules.
Hes on my block list so I only saw his post in your reply but it may be the single most clueless post Ive ever seen at HF. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :dunce:

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Since when is France trying hard to succeed at baseball?

I'll have to check the numbers, but I'm not sure there are more than 1.000 people playing baseball here. :help: :help: :help: :help: :help:

Anybody watching a baseball game will sleep. Watching a guy training for 10 minutes, missing a ball then training again, missing again then training...
I really like this article. Reminds me how boring all these sports are vs hockey. :)

Still, some things are so true in this article... funny read. :)

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You were trying to be sarcastic maybe?
If so, I'm sorry, I missed it.

You were trying to be sarcastic maybe?
If so, I'm sorry, I missed it.Maybe? :rolleyes: ( :innocent: )

I find it pretty funny when he goes on to explain that the reason Americans don`t like football is that they`re smarter than us, when we all know its the other way around. And its not even close.

I find it pretty funny when he goes on to explain that the reason Americans don`t like football is that they`re smarter than us, when we all know its the other way around. And its not even close.

... I hope this is some kind of a joke?

Culture differences or whatever, football isn't popular in the US, too bad for them but I am actually happy about it. I fear that when the americans start liking football they will bring over stars from Europe with some sick kinds of signings, might be farfetched since they would leave the good quality of European football, the charm of playing in a classic club like Barca etc. It is not like they are not earning enough money here but I am just saying, if football ever was to become #1 sport in the US I could imagine there being ALOT of money involved there.

For some reason, many Americans are uncomfortable with continuous action sports like soccer and hockey. They seem to prefer games like baseball and American football, where actual game action consumes only a tiny part of a match's elapsed time. A minute or so of standing around, meeting, consulting, planning, huddling, bum-scratching, shaking off signs, checking the runner etc. etc., and then a couple of seconds worth of action, then another minute of nothing, another eight seconds of action, and oops, time for a TV time-out. After spending his days watching stuff like this, Mr. Midwest Bumpkin sportswriter then fills his daily space allotment with this standard, hackneyed rant about the boredom of soccer. I know it was supposed to be a joke, but its a joke that's been told better a thousand times before.

This guys is joking, right?

Please!?

No, he is not. He is an idiot. I live in the Twin Cities, so I've known that for a while. Didn't know that he hates soccer that much, but now that I think about it, it doesn't surprise me.

The more funny is the commercial part. There's more advertisements in US sports than any other sports... :)
And I always find it funny to call the US sport "football" when you're playing with your hands... :)

They bash hockey. They bash soccer.

Some americans just can't take it when their not the best at sport.

Disagree. I think it's because most Americans don't like it, they are not considered among the best. If America had embraced soccer over sports such as baseball, basketball, and football during the past several decades, they would no doubt be amongst the best soccer nations due to the sheer amount of natural athletic talent the country produces along with the immense resources that the U.S. devotes to athletics.

One could argue that "chicken or the egg" theory with regards to soccer (do we hate it because we stink or do we stink because we hate it), but I think it has more to do with we stink because we hate it and not the other way around. Americans being the best at a sport isn't necessarily why it is popular. It's not really relevant to most football fans that American football is 'by far' the best producer of talent and that the average state produces more talent than any other country in the world. They like the sport because they grew up with it, know the rules, and have developed a love for the game. Soccer cannot claim this. That we aren't that successful internationally doesn't help. But I don't think it is the primary reason for the lack of interest in soccer.

The more funny is the commercial part. There's more advertisements in US sports than any other sports... :)
And I always find it funny to call the US sport "football" when you're playing with your hands... :)
Yes, but at least we don't debase the uniforms wtih advertising. Besides the Nike "Swoosh" anyways... ;)

I thought the article was funny. He was a bit profane in the way he described the game, but I'm sure I'm not the only American that finds soccer exceedingly dull. There's nothing wrong with that just like there is nothing wrong liking the sport.

Disagree. I think it's because most Americans don't like it, they are not considered among the best. If America had embraced soccer over sports such as baseball, basketball, and football during the past several decades, they would no doubt be amongst the best soccer nations .
Although most of you don't know or care, you already are among the elite soccer nations. I believe the good ol' US of A is seeded fifth in the World Cup.

Ha. That's not the reason. The reason why many Americans bash soccer and to a lesser extent hockey, is because most people in America don't give a **** about either of those two sports. Americans are most definitely not trying to be the best at either of those sports.Cuz they suck at them. Must be why the soccer ratings in america have gone up since they moved up in the FIFA rankings.

I believe the good ol' US of A is seeded fifth in the World Cup.
Let's be realistic here please.

Cuz they suck at them. Must be why the soccer ratings in america have gone up since they moved up in the FIFA rankings.


What's interesting is the fact that for two sports which most Americans don't give a flying you know what about (hockey & soccer) we do pretty well at internationally and in hockey in particular are contributing some serious talent.

Let's be realistic here please.

I'd say the U.S. deserves at least a top twenty ranking which is pretty remarkable given the scope of soccer in this country.

I thought the article was funny. He was a bit profane in the way he described the game, but I'm sure I'm not the only American that finds soccer exceedingly dull. There's nothing wrong with that just like there is nothing wrong liking the sport.



The guy insulted hundreds of millions of people for their choice of sport. He's a moron, and if you can't see that.....well, nuff said.

Oops, sorry about the inaccurate post on WC seeding. The U.S. is fifth in the FIFA world rankings, one place behind Mexico and three ahead of France. They missed out on their region's WC seeding to Mexico, even though they have beaten the Mexicans in eight of their last nine meetings. Most Americans hate the game, but you have to admit, some of their countrymen can play it.

Oops, sorry about the inaccurate post on WC seeding. The U.S. is fifth in the FIFA world rankings, one place behind Mexico and three ahead of France. They missed out on their region's WC seeding to Mexico, even though they have beaten the Mexicans in eight of their last nine meetings. Most Americans hate the game, but you have to admit, some of their countrymen can play it.
they have???

For some reason, many Americans are uncomfortable with continuous action sports like soccer and hockey. They seem to prefer games like baseball and American football, where actual game action consumes only a tiny part of a match's elapsed time. A minute or so of standing around, meeting, consulting, planning, huddling, bum-scratching, shaking off signs, checking the runner etc. etc., and then a couple of seconds worth of action, then another minute of nothing, another eight seconds of action, and oops, time for a TV time-out. After spending his days watching stuff like this, Mr. Midwest Bumpkin sportswriter then fills his daily space allotment with this standard, hackneyed rant about the boredom of soccer. I know it was supposed to be a joke, but its a joke that's been told better a thousand times before.

they are uncomfortable with continuous action sports because as a whole, americans have one of the smallest attention spans of any nation in the world. don't believe me? Try to watch a show on mtv that doesn't switch camera angles every 5-10 seconds. This also explains why sports that involve a lot of hoopla and histrionics get so much attention here.

Every four years or so, this kind of article surfaces. The World Cup is a small blip on the radar, as they would much rather cover Barry Bonds' saga or the early training camps of the NFL in the summer. These supposed "sport" writers have nothing else to in their time. They throw a bone and acknowledge the fact that something is going on outside America, and then forget the whole WC afterwards.

A small example I just recently experienced. I went down to the biggest outlet mall closest to Vancouver in Washington State. They had Nike, Puma and Adidas ( the 3 biggest soccer brands ) and I wanted to pick up some soccer items. Not one of them had any World Cup items to speak of. The Adidas store had a few price-reduced Beckham jerseys.

I'd say the U.S. deserves at least a top twenty ranking which is pretty remarkable given the scope of soccer in this country.
I agree with that.

Oops, sorry about the inaccurate post on WC seeding. The U.S. is fifth in the FIFA world rankings, one place behind Mexico and three ahead of France. They missed out on their region's WC seeding to Mexico, even though they have beaten the Mexicans in eight of their last nine meetings. Most Americans hate the game, but you have to admit, some of their countrymen can play it.
USA is nowhere near a top 5 nation.
Not even close.
FIFA rankings don't mean anything (and BTW Mexico isn't good either).

Oops, sorry about the inaccurate post on WC seeding. The U.S. is fifth in the FIFA world rankings, one place behind Mexico and three ahead of France. They missed out on their region's WC seeding to Mexico, even though they have beaten the Mexicans in eight of their last nine meetings. Most Americans hate the game, but you have to admit, some of their countrymen can play it.

Don't you think there is something wrong with a ranking that has the USA before France? They are a good team but not 5th in the world, no chance in hell. Fifa's rankings are pathetic.

Oops, sorry about the inaccurate post on WC seeding. The U.S. is fifth in the FIFA world rankings, one place behind Mexico and three ahead of France. They missed out on their region's WC seeding to Mexico, even though they have beaten the Mexicans in eight of their last nine meetings. Most Americans hate the game, but you have to admit, some of their countrymen can play it.Well, I don't think the US can touch anyone in the top 10 yet. But they certainly could have the potential to, if the sport grew. I really don't understand how most americans can watch a Boring sport such as Baseball even if they know that a big number of the athletes use performing enhancing drugs. As if the sport wasn't boring enough, it isn't even legit. Somethings in life confuse me...

"Thousands will die in rioting" ?

What a pr**k.

It's one thing to try and take the mickey but this guy is just offensive.

USA is nowhere near a top 5 nation.
Not even close.
FIFA rankings don't mean anything (and BTW Mexico isn't good either).
I'd say usa is in the top 30 at the very most (maybe top 25). I don't see them making it past the group stages this year, which sort of sucks, cuz I'd like for the sport to grow in North America.

Well, I don't think the US can touch anyone in the top 10 yet. But they certainly could have the potential to, if the sport grew. I really don't understand how most americans can watch a Boring sport such as Baseball even if they know that a big number of the athletes use performing enhancing drugs. As if the sport wasn't boring enough, it isn't even legit. Somethings in life confuse me...

Biggest thing that confuses me is that everyone has to bash sports they don't enjoy themselves. I have never watched baseball so I can't tell if it is boring but there must be something that makes people want to watch it, even if some people don't understand it.

USA is nowhere near a top 5 nation.
Not even close.
FIFA rankings don't mean anything (and BTW Mexico isn't good either).
You sound un peu bitter, monsieur.

I'd say usa is in the top 30 at the very most (maybe top 25). I don't see them making it past the group stages this year, which sort of sucks, cuz I'd like for the sport to grow in North America.
I'd say the US is a top 20 nation.

Biggest thing that confuses me is that everyone has to bash sports they don't enjoy themselves. I have never watched baseball so I can't tell if it is boring but there must be something that makes people want to watch it, even if some people don't understand it.I played it for 6-7 years, but you couldn't pay me to watch it. It's boring, long and filled with men who better themselves with drugs. I think it's turned into an absolutely ridiculous sport. Especially when a guy like Bonds is still allowed to play, and beat Babe Ruths' record. An absolute disgrace. I didn't like the sport before, but now I absolutely despise it.

"Thousands will die in rioting" ?

What a pr**k.

It's one thing to try and take the mickey but this guy is just offensive.

I thought that was a bit offensive as well, as if Europe is a place filled with thugs who start rioting when football's on TV. Sure there are some problems and sure this was a deliberate overstatement this was close to being over the line.


This probably shows that he doesn't understand anything about the atmosphere an event like the World Cup can bring to a nation. It's his loss though.

I'd say the US is a top 20 nation.I'd say probably 20th spot on. Canada's ranking is also a little crazy. We're bad but not 84th imo.

I played it for 6-7 years, but you couldn't pay me to watch it. It's boring, long and filled with men who better themselves with drugs. I think it's turned into an absolutely ridiculous sport. Especially when a guy like Bonds is still allowed to play, and beat Babe Ruths' record. An absolute disgrace. I didn't like the sport before, but now I absolutely despise it.
I don't mind baseball, especially during the playoffs. You can't tell me you weren't a little excited by the 2004 ALCS, which was probably one of the most rivetting sporting events that I have ever witnessed.

If Helice were on the boards right now, he would say its a disgrace that Juventus is allowed to continually win scudettos, when there is some evidence of impropriety, in regards to match fixing, buying off officials, and the ever popular EPO. If Evilo were to respond as well, he would also contend that the use of drugs is common amongst athletes in all sports. I don't necessarily doubt it.

I also find it kind of funny how people bash the sports they don't watch. I'll admit to doing it to a certain extent (when it comes down to the NBA), but the truth is, if you don't like it, simply don't pay attention to it. Whenever NBA highlights come on the television, or the radio, I simply turn the dial.

Yes, when I read the "baseball players use drugs", I find a bit ironic, since it's probably the same in football.

Anyway, baseball is not my cup of tea, but I went to Yankee Stadium a couple of times, and it's always a good atmosphere.

I can't get really excited about the sport because it has too many long pauses without action, but I'm still into the score when I'm at a game.

But I haven't paid attention to the world series in a long long time.

Football (american football) is fun though. I love it.

Yes, when I read the "baseball players use drugs", I find a bit ironic, since it's probably the same in football.


Exactly.

As it probably is in hockey as well. but we won't go there again now will we ;)

Exactly.

As it probably is in hockey as well. but we won't go there again now will we ;)
I'd say maybe 5% of hockey players use performing enhancing drugs. Were it's probably more upwards of 40% in Football and Baseball.

I'd say maybe 5% of hockey players use performing enhancing drugs. Were it's probably more upwards of 40% in Football and Baseball. :biglaugh:

:biglaugh:My made up statistics BLOW YO MIND.

Why are soccer fans so defensive about it??

This thread is pretty pathetic, crying like that for an humoristic column.

FIFA world rankings are most certainly a joke. they pay way too much attention to results only. The USA plays much weaker competition on a game by game basis than most of its European counterparts, hence therefore amasses more wins and therefore a hgiher fifa ranking.

with that said................

I do agree that continual growth of the sport here will most certainly provide the potential for a national powerhouse. We've already seen the sport grow significantly since the success in the last WC, and also due to the success of the women's national team (believe it or not). While different from europe, the infrastructure here certainly could go a long way towards supporting this expansion. The MLS has a relatively small (albeit eager) fanbase, and the NCAA acts a sort of youth academy to a degree. The issue that will continue to dog america is that most of their stars will still chase the paycheck overseas in the 'best' leagues (with the exception of donovan, for *various* reasons), and while steps have been taken in the right direction, the perception of the MLS as a 'lesser' league still is going to haunt the game here

I'd say maybe 5% of hockey players use performing enhancing drugs. Were it's probably more upwards of 40% in Football and Baseball.

:biglaugh:

Which football are you referring too?

Why are soccer fans so defensive about it??

This thread is pretty pathetic, crying like that for an humoristic column.

I didn't get upset by it, but if that was a humoristic collumn I must be loosing my sense of humor.

It might be off the record but it concerns his column:

One thing that atleast I have noticed in Sweden and I am guessing it is like that in the rest of the footballcrazy world is that when it comes down to WC it doesn't matter if you are a football-fan, almost everyone watches the games or follows them and people not generally speaking about sports are speaking about the team.

I must say that I am not that high on football, it is on my top 10 list, probably top 5 but the what makes football so great IMO is the atmosphere around it, and that almost all the world loves it, it is like a better version of the summer-olympics but with only one sport.

It might be off the record but it concerns his column:

One thing that atleast I have noticed in Sweden and I am guessing it is like that in the rest of the footballcrazy world is that when it comes down to WC it doesn't matter if you are a football-fan, almost everyone watches the games or follows them and people not generally speaking about sports are speaking about the team.

I must say that I am not that high on football, it is on my top 10 list, probably top 5 but the what makes football so great IMO is the atmosphere around it, and that almost all the world loves it, it is like a better version of the summer-olympics but with only one sport.
Same here in France.
The wife even watched all France game in 98.

:biglaugh:

Which football are you referring too?European obviously. Have you ever seen Beckhams biceps?

European obviously. Have you ever seen Beckhams biceps?Hey BF, i bet they are bigger than Henin's right arm!!

:joker: :biglaugh:

Hey BF, i bet they are bigger than Henin's right arm!!

:joker: :biglaugh:Hmmm, they are bigger than Bond's head.

"Thousands will die in rioting" ?

What a pr**k.

It's one thing to try and take the mickey but this guy is just offensive.Yeah were not talking about the SC in Edmonton here.

The NFL has some extremely strict and good drug regulations. Obviously some people still use, but not near 40%. However, I would say that a good portion of NFL players did use illegal drugs sometime during their career.

Well, I don't think the US can touch anyone in the top 10 yet. But they certainly could have the potential to, if the sport grew. I really don't understand how most americans can watch a Boring sport such as Baseball even if they know that a big number of the athletes use performing enhancing drugs. As if the sport wasn't boring enough, it isn't even legit. Somethings in life confuse me...
soccer has to be the most painful thing to watch. All they do is take turns kicking the ball as far down field as they can. Its like watching the devils play hockey on a football field.

I'd say probably 20th spot on. Canada's ranking is also a little crazy. We're bad but not 84th imo.
no, we are crazy bad.

soccer has to be the most painful thing to watch. All they do is take turns kicking the ball as far down field as they can. Its like watching the devils play hockey on a football field. :biglaugh:

soccer has to be the most painful thing to watch. All they do is take turns kicking the ball as far down field as they can. Its like watching the devils play hockey on a football field.

are you watching the mls?

as for the devils...as much as i hate them (and i really, really do) they played some exciting hockey this season

In the article the guy mentions that Americans like to use their hands. Considering the huge amount of porn sold in the US, I can imagine.

Biggest thing that confuses me is that everyone has to bash sports they don't enjoy themselves. I have never watched baseball so I can't tell if it is boring but there must be something that makes people want to watch it, even if some people don't understand it.
thank you. that's a very mature post. i personally love soccer every 4 years, but find it very boring. i have no problem though with people who love it. they can enjoy what appeals to them. i am a huge baseball fan, and my last dying care will be about baseball, so I appreciate your post a lot.

are you watching the mls?

as for the devils...as much as i hate them (and i really, really do) they played some exciting hockey this season
i knew the devils weren't the best example, but most people, wrongly, assume they play boring trap hockey and I was trying to relate to them. I personally don't mind soccer, but to pimp it as cutting edge excitement compared to baseball is ridiculous. there are like an average of 15 shots a game in soccer, and like 4 minutues out of 90 where one team may or may not score. at least in baseball the shape of the game can change with every pitch.

Thats funny coming from him because soccer is getting really popular in the twin cities

I personally don't mind soccer, but to pimp it as cutting edge excitement compared to baseball is ridiculous. there are like an average of 15 shots a game in soccer, and like 4 minutues out of 90 where one team may or may not score. at least in baseball the shape of the game can change with every pitch.

Well it's the same with football for most of us. At any given moment the entire game can change because of what one player does (or fails to do). One pass can carve a defense open at any given time. One mistake can cost a victory. I'm sure it's just like that in baseball.


There is no doubt however that there ARE boring football games, anyone denying that would be silly. Just as I'm sure that honest Baseball fans will admit that there are some boring baseball games.

I personally don't mind soccer, but to pimp it as cutting edge excitement compared to baseball is ridiculous.
Or, you could switch the words "soccer" and "baseball" and you'd get a statement that many more people in the world would back. But of course, they're hardly as wise as the great FOTS :sarcasm:

Ill be guessing that Tom Powers will be praising the World game to its full extent if (god forbid :) ) the Americans win the World Cup.

What a ******.

Or, you could switch the words "soccer" and "baseball" and you'd get a statement that many more people in the world would back. But of course, they're hardly as wise as the great FOTS :sarcasm:
its all a matter of opinion. The truth is, soccer fans are the most pompous, arrogant jerks on earth. You don't see me pimping how much I love baseball and football and crying about how can people watch soccer because nothing happens in it. I also think the only reason soccer is so popular may be just to piss off north america. If soccer ever hits big in the US, you could very easily see a decline in interest of soccer worldwide.

I also think the only reason soccer is so popular may be just to piss off north america. If soccer ever hits big in the US, you could very easily see a decline in interest of soccer worldwide.

I know little about how people in other countries care about soccer, but I do know that many clubs in Europe, at least, have been around for over 80 years. People are not just going to give up watching a sport that many have during their entire lives just because more Americans like me start paying more attention to it.

But what do I know, I'm just an American, maybe I shouldn't be talking about soccer at all...

I know little about how people in other countries care about soccer, but I do know that many clubs in Europe, at least, have been around for over 80 years. People are not just going to give up watching a sport that many have during their entire lives just because more Americans like me start paying more attention to it.

But what do I know, I'm just an American, maybe I shouldn't be talking about soccer at all...
I was going to add in traditional markets, but felt it didn't need to be said. Eventually, the MLS will take off and have more money behind it than any European league and will be able to attract a lot more of the big names. Maybe not the big Europeans, but you can bet a lot of the south/central americans would give it a shot, and if/when this happens, interest will go down. I'm not saying it is going to go down so much to render it irrelevant, that's never going to happen, but I could see its interest dropping to the point where this ridiculous hysteria doesn't follow it everywhere it goes.

its all a matter of opinion. The truth is, soccer fans are the most pompous, arrogant jerks on earth. You don't see me pimping how much I love baseball and football and crying about how can people watch soccer because nothing happens in it. I also think the only reason soccer is so popular may be just to piss off north america. If soccer ever hits big in the US, you could very easily see a decline in interest of soccer worldwide.
I hate to tell you this but most football fans couldnt give a flying **** about what North Americans think of football.

Its ironic that you call football fans pompous and arrogant when Americans wanted to change the way football is played for the WC held there. That would be like the English holding the hockey WC and wanting to play the game in 2 halves.

Pompous and arrogant is having a sport played by 2 countries and calling it a world championship.

I know little about how people in other countries care about soccer, but I do know that many clubs in Europe, at least, have been around for over 80 years. People are not just going to give up watching a sport that many have during their entire lives just because more Americans like me start paying more attention to it.

But what do I know, I'm just an American, maybe I shouldn't be talking about soccer at all...My club has been around for 125 years, youre right that the fans aren't going to give up because Americans and Canadians get interested. Fans don't care what they do as long as they dont try to Americanise the game.

I hate to tell you this but most football fans couldnt give a flying **** about what North Americans think of football.

Its ironic that you call football fans pompous and arrogant when Americans wanted to change the way football is played for the WC held there. That would be like the English holding the hockey WC and wanting to play the game in 2 halves.

Pompous and arrogant is having a sport played by 2 countries and calling it a world championship.
how is it not a world championship when all the best players in the world are there? Also how did the US want the WC to be played differently? Korea had a different format, as did Brazil in 1950, but you can't call them pompous and arrogant, no that wouldn't be anti-american. You also seem to forget that the 1994 world cup has been by far the most successful world cup ever held, despite an expanded format which allowed for weaker games, hence less attendence. Face it, the US has done nothing to hurt the game of Soccer, and most certainly hasn't tried to change the way its played.

I was going to add in traditional markets, but felt it didn't need to be said. Eventually, the MLS will take off and have more money behind it than any European league and will be able to attract a lot more of the big names. Maybe not the big Europeans, but you can bet a lot of the south/central americans would give it a shot, and if/when this happens, interest will go down. I'm not saying it is going to go down so much to render it irrelevant, that's never going to happen, but I could see its interest dropping to the point where this ridiculous hysteria doesn't follow it everywhere it goes.
MLS will have more money? Dont make me laugh, the English league has a multi billion dollar TV contract. MLS will never, ever match the Euro leagues for money.

Thats like saying France will be able to outspend MLB in a few years time.

MLS will have more money? Dont make me laugh, the English league has a multi billion dollar TV contract. MLS will never, ever match the Euro leagues for money.

Thats like saying France will be able to outspend MLB in a few years time.
oddly enough, there are other revenue streams besides television. If/when soccer really takes off in mainstream America, like say a US world cup victory, there is no way that the european leagues could match the revenue potential of MLS. This imo will happen eventually, but we aren't talking 5 years down the road, we might not be talking 20 years down the road, but soccer is gaining steam in the US, and all it needs is a spark to explode.

You also seem to forget that the 1994 world cup has been by far the most successful world cup ever held
Yeah???? :amazed:

I'm neither a soccer or baseball fan but any baseball fan who calls soccer 'boring' is definetly making himself prone to some serious ridiculing.

Basketball is 'ok', I just think it's so gay when people start screaming 'D-fense, d-fense!' when the opponents have the ball.

Football is 10 seconds of action followed by 30 seconds of nothing happening, 10 secs action, 30 secs nothing etc. If someone finds that somehow mighty entertaining, good for them. I don't see anything special there. Atleast the play is going on all the time in soccer.

Then there's hockey. Fastest, most physical, toughest, most dangerous and action-packed of all major sports.

So I'm a hockey fan and ****ing proud of that.

I also think the only reason soccer is so popular may be just to piss off north america.

FOTS, this could be your best post ever, and that means something considering the tough competition

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I also think the only reason soccer is so popular may be just to piss off north america. If soccer ever hits big in the US, you could very easily see a decline in interest of soccer worldwide.

This is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted on this board.

Biggest thing that confuses me is that everyone has to bash sports they don't enjoy themselves. I have never watched baseball so I can't tell if it is boring but there must be something that makes people want to watch it, even if some people don't understand it.

Exactly. Whenever an article like this about soccer or hockey, people turn around and called the guy an idiot then bashes other sports they don't like. Really makes them no better than the original columnist. Some posters and columnists just can't let some have their own taste in sports and have to rip a sport they don't like.

This is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted on this board.

I agree, and that is the stupidest piece of "journalism" i've ever read.

"Yes, America may be the only country that doesn't go goofy for soccer. We also are the only remaining super power. Don't you see a connection there?

In fairness, soccer is a great activity for little kids. It allows them to run around outside before their motor skills are fully developed and they can move onto something else. It's not bad at the high school level, either, because individual abilities vary greatly at that age, and weird play often occurs as a result.

Beyond that, it's unbearable. As the World Cup rolls around again, I refuse to apologize for saying I'd rather have a colonoscopy than watch a minute of it. Soccer is the rest of the world's problem. Let's not even fake it anymore.

Who cares if the French or Chinese think we are uncivilized? What's the big deal if opponents from the Middle East shake hands after a match? Their countries will be at each other's throats again the next day, anyway.''


First off since when is the United States the last remaining super power, the Chinese has one soldier for every person living in the United States and their economy will surpass the U.S.A's in a few years.

oddly enough, there are other revenue streams besides television. If/when soccer really takes off in mainstream America, like say a US world cup victory, there is no way that the european leagues could match the revenue potential of MLS. This imo will happen eventually, but we aren't talking 5 years down the road, we might not be talking 20 years down the road, but soccer is gaining steam in the US, and all it needs is a spark to explode.

What revenue streams would those be? Television is where the money is, be it North America or Europe. As for merchandisong, Euro teams will have the monopoly on that for years to come, Man Utd and Real Madrid are far more marketable round the world than the New York Red Bulls or Real Salt Lake.

its all a matter of opinion. The truth is, soccer fans are the most pompous, arrogant jerks on earth. You don't see me pimping how much I love baseball and football and crying about how can people watch soccer because nothing happens in it. I also think the only reason soccer is so popular may be just to piss off north america. If soccer ever hits big in the US, you could very easily see a decline in interest of soccer worldwide.
****************
Nobody cares outside of the states if the game is popular there or not. In fact i'd say most soccer fans like myself would like to see football grow there.
Belive or not the world isn't always concerned about what the states are doing like they think evryone is.
Like Morrisey says: America is not the world

Obviously, you are a good reader, because you managed to single handedly **** up what was a very easy post to understand. Congratulations.

I didn't say that the US would be the best, or that other countries are retarded. Those were you own asinine statements. I said the reason why the US isn't that great at soccer is because soccer isn't very popular at all in the US. Very few people play it, and the development system for it is very small. There's little reason for it to succeed. If soccer had a larger following and therefore a larger pool of players, added to better development in youth soccer, the US would do better. It's fairly simple really, though I'm sure you'll manage to misunderstand it **********.
There are more registered youth soccer players in the US than baseball

What a pathetic and ignorant article. There's nothing like an American embarassing himself whilst thinking he's talking on behalf of his entire country to entertain you on a Sunday.

Sure, football is crap. I guess it became the worlds most popular sport by default? What a joke. You guys don't like it because you're not (really) in the top ten at it. If football is boring, what does that make baseball?

There are more registered youth soccer players in the US than baseball
yes, and whenever people use that arguement it tells a lot about the person who uses it. There are many factors as to why. In Canada, their are many, many more youth soccer registrations than hockey. Must mean that in canada soccer is more popular than hockey right?

I agree, and that is the stupidest piece of "journalism" i've ever read.

"Yes, America may be the only country that doesn't go goofy for soccer. We also are the only remaining super power. Don't you see a connection there?

In fairness, soccer is a great activity for little kids. It allows them to run around outside before their motor skills are fully developed and they can move onto something else. It's not bad at the high school level, either, because individual abilities vary greatly at that age, and weird play often occurs as a result.

Beyond that, it's unbearable. As the World Cup rolls around again, I refuse to apologize for saying I'd rather have a colonoscopy than watch a minute of it. Soccer is the rest of the world's problem. Let's not even fake it anymore.

Who cares if the French or Chinese think we are uncivilized? What's the big deal if opponents from the Middle East shake hands after a match? Their countries will be at each other's throats again the next day, anyway.''


First off since when is the United States the last remaining super power, the Chinese has one soldier for every person living in the United States and their economy will surpass the U.S.A's in a few years.
and yet they still couldn't last in a war. Their technology is at least 15 years behind that of the US. China has always had a numbers advantage and yet has never been a dominant power in anything other than ping pong.

FOTS, this could be your best post ever, and that means something considering the tough competition

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
I really should have worded that differently. It did not sound at all how I wanted it too. I am by no means naieve enough to suggest europeans love soccer to simply spite americans. I do feel however, that soccer would be significantly less popular than it is if the US was a dominant force. Their have been many examples of european interest declining due to American improvements. Horse Racing used to be huge over in Europe, but declined and declined until the point of non-interest. Now, I'm not going to say soccer will ever reach that fate, but it could decline somewhat. Another example is golf. Once Americans took over and dominated European interest also dwindled. I know sports fans of any country will tend to care about the sports their fellow countrymen are actually good at, and nobody likes to see their "team" lose. So if the US became a force, and sustained it for a significant period of time, say 20-30 years, you don't think their would be a decline in european interest in soccer? I'm not saying its going to become the equivalent of modern day baseball in europe, but it could be dropped from its current near religion status.

yes, and whenever people use that arguement it tells a lot about the person who uses it. There are many factors as to why. In Canada, their are many, many more youth soccer registrations than hockey. Must mean that in canada soccer is more popular than hockey right?

That reply tells me a lot about you too.

In Canada, there are more hockey players than football players, hence hockey is more popular. The fact that there are more youngsters signing up to play football means that they are closing the gap in popularity.

It's not difficult fella, you only need a modicum of sense to work it out. Maybe that's where you're going wrong?

I really should have worded that differently. It did not sound at all how I wanted it too. I am by no means naieve enough to suggest europeans love soccer to simply spite americans. I do feel however, that soccer would be significantly less popular than it is if the US was a dominant force. Their have been many examples of european interest declining due to American improvements. Horse Racing used to be huge over in Europe, but declined and declined until the point of non-interest. Now, I'm not going to say soccer will ever reach that fate, but it could decline somewhat. Another example is golf. Once Americans took over and dominated European interest also dwindled. I know sports fans of any country will tend to care about the sports their fellow countrymen are actually good at, and nobody likes to see their "team" lose. So if the US became a force, and sustained it for a significant period of time, say 20-30 years, you don't think their would be a decline in european interest in soccer? I'm not saying its going to become the equivalent of modern day baseball in europe, but it could be dropped from its current near religion status.

Um, the Germans haven't won a title since '96, the number of people going to the stadiums is still growing despite our medicore league (compared to the English, Italian and Spanish league) and national team.
The English team hasn't won anything since '66, the Italian since '82, the Spanish team hasn't won ANYTHING EVER and is still considerd a big football nation and has a top 3 league in Europe,...
Do you really think another big competitor would really damage football, especially in Europe? IMO only if the US wins most mayor titles and has the one big, the best league in the world... a scenario I can't see coming, not even in the long run. A competitor? Yes. Dominating? No.
And don't compare it to the really big sports like horse racing or golf ;) Both were and partial still are sports of the upper classes and no common sport where the "normal" people can attend and not only watch. A big differnece IMO.

And don't compare it to the really big sports like horse racing or golf ;) Both were and partial still are sports of the upper classes and no common sport where the "normal" people can attend and not only watch. A big differnece IMO.

and...

don't forget that anybody can play soccer. short people, tall people, rich people, poor people. can't say the same about golf, basketball, etc.

Ah, too bad Evilo had to edit this post, i couldn't read the complete thing, must have been something..

Obviously, you are a good reader, because you managed to single handedly **** up what was a very easy post to understand. Congratulations.Thanks.
This is the post i replied to btw:
"Ha. That's not the reason. The reason why many Americans bash soccer and to a lesser extent hockey, is because most people in America don't give a **** about either of those two sports. "Americans are most definitely not trying to be the best at either of those sports."


I didn't say that the US would be the best, or that other countries are retarded. Those were you own asinine statements.It's called sarcasm, genius. Obviously you are a GREAT reader!

I said the reason why the US isn't that great at soccer is because soccer isn't very popular at all in the US. Very few people play it, and the development system for it is very small. There's little reason for it to succeed. If soccer had a larger following and therefore a larger pool of players, added to better development in youth soccer, the US would do better. It's fairly simple really, though I'm sure you'll manage to misunderstand it **********.That's an obvious point. So obvious that maybe you could realize that the reason why
France, Italy China, Brazil...........suck at baseball is that baseball isn't very popular at all in those countries. Very few people play it, and the development system for it is very small. Exactly the same reason. A reason so obvious (even if actually a lot more people play soccer in the US than baseball in Europe) and valid for any big country sucking at a certain sport.
Yet seasoned with this priceless quote from you:
Americans are most definitely not trying to be the best at either of those sports.

:biglaugh:

I really should have worded that differently. It did not sound at all how I wanted it too. I am by no means naieve enough to suggest europeans love soccer to simply spite americans. I do feel however, that soccer would be significantly less popular than it is if the US was a dominant force. Their have been many examples of european interest declining due to American improvements. Horse Racing used to be huge over in Europe, but declined and declined until the point of non-interest. Now, I'm not going to say soccer will ever reach that fate, but it could decline somewhat. Another example is golf. Once Americans took over and dominated European interest also dwindled. I know sports fans of any country will tend to care about the sports their fellow countrymen are actually good at, and nobody likes to see their "team" lose. So if the US became a force, and sustained it for a significant period of time, say 20-30 years, you don't think their would be a decline in european interest in soccer? I'm not saying its going to become the equivalent of modern day baseball in europe, but it could be dropped from its current near religion status.
Let's take it easy: you are completely wrong.

Let's take it easy: you are completely wrong.
And not for the first time.

MLS will have more money? Dont make me laugh, the English league has a multi billion dollar TV contract. MLS will never, ever match the Euro leagues for money.

Thats like saying France will be able to outspend MLB in a few years time.

That is a pretty horrible analogy.

That reply tells me a lot about you too.

In Canada, there are more hockey players than football players, hence hockey is more popular. The fact that there are more youngsters signing up to play football means that they are closing the gap in popularity.

It's not difficult fella, you only need a modicum of sense to work it out. Maybe that's where you're going wrong?
the fact there are more soccer players than hockey players is the fact that it is a lot easier for parents to cough up $20 in registration than hundreds and hudreds in registration/equipment. But I assume you looked into that?

yes, and whenever people use that arguement it tells a lot about the person who uses it. There are many factors as to why. In Canada, their are many, many more youth soccer registrations than hockey. Must mean that in canada soccer is more popular than hockey right?
In canada soccer is the biggest summer sport, winter is a different story therefore hockey and soccer dont compete directly ,however in the US soccer competes with american football, bball and baseball as summer sports (or field sports) despite that more kids choose to play soccer, that should tell you something.

the fact there are more soccer players than hockey players is the fact that it is a lot easier for parents to cough up $20 in registration than hundreds and hudreds in registration/equipment. But I assume you looked into that?
However you forgot to mention that in the US registration for basketball etc is even cheaper, so how do you explain so many youth soccer players now?

Found something more
http://sev.prnewswire.com/entertainment/20050906/NYTU06906092005-1.html
Soccer is one of the most popular youth participant sports in the U.S. with more than 18 million children ages 5-19 participating regularly. In fact, more children participate in organized soccer than in any other youth sport.

That is a pretty horrible analogy.I know, only because the original post was horrible and the analogy proved that.

the fact there are more soccer players than hockey players is the fact that it is a lot easier for parents to cough up $20 in registration than hundreds and hudreds in registration/equipment. But I assume you looked into that?

completely irrelevant. If there are more kids playing football than hockey, that means football is clawing back the popularity stakes. Simple as that

completely irrelevant. If there are more kids playing football than hockey, that means football is clawing back the popularity stakes. Simple as that

Canada has always had more kids playing soccer compared to hockey. This is nothing new.

I've finally gotten around to e-mail the baffoon back regarding the article. Before i post it, i'd like to say that i don't really belive most of what i write here, i just want to mock him gently.

I've just finished reading your 'article' regarding the World Cup and i feel i must comment.

Congratulations, you have managed to back up every single reason behind people thinking America is without doubt the most closed-minded, arrogant and ignorant nation on earth. I also find great amusement in you labelling our sport as boring; if football is boring then what does that make baseball exactly? 9/10 innings and 6 hours of exactly the same thing? Excellent entertainment, and that's your national sport? It's no wonder you're all fat if the top-flight entertainment available to you is that, American 'Foot'ball and Wheel of Fortune (see, i can generalise too). The funniest thing i feel about the whole thing is that you would be it's biggest fans if you were actually any good at it....

I know you're not in this business to make friends (and with your writing style and ignorance for the truth, thats probably a good thing) but i'd refrain from spouting your badly-researched and insulting nonsense with the locals if you ever choose to visit the good shores of old Blighty. You might just meet one of those half-bricks that little Nigel or Victoria have grown accustomed to over the years.

In summarisation, if people like you are not following the greatest sport on earth then to be completely honest, i'm delighted.

Yours,

Daniel Newham

PS. I don't expect you to reply, i'm sure you've only just discovered how to use a keyboard after all. I just wanted to get it off my chest. Good night.

:madfire:

That email makes you look stupid as hell. Way to outclass the writer by pushing stereotypes. Nothing is better in an argument than the excessive use of Ad Homeniums towards someone's country.

First off since when is the United States the last remaining super power, the Chinese has one soldier for every person living in the United States and their economy will surpass the U.S.A's in a few years.
this article is trash but you're dead wrong here. US military is far superior to China's and no airforce in the world is even close to the US.

Not to mention no one in the world is close to a GDP of roughly $14 trillion.

That email makes you look stupid as hell. Way to outclass the writer by pushing stereotypes. Nothing is better in an argument than the excessive use of Ad Homeniums towards someone's country.

But, damn does his home country know how to play soccer, and isn't that all what really matters?

That email makes you look stupid as hell. Way to outclass the writer by pushing stereotypes. Nothing is better in an argument than the excessive use of Ad Homeniums towards someone's country.

It's a casual use of irony my friend...

I really should have worded that differently. It did not sound at all how I wanted it too. I am by no means naieve enough to suggest europeans love soccer to simply spite americans. I do feel however, that soccer would be significantly less popular than it is if the US was a dominant force. Their have been many examples of european interest declining due to American improvements. Horse Racing used to be huge over in Europe, but declined and declined until the point of non-interest. Now, I'm not going to say soccer will ever reach that fate, but it could decline somewhat. Another example is golf. Once Americans took over and dominated European interest also dwindled. I know sports fans of any country will tend to care about the sports their fellow countrymen are actually good at, and nobody likes to see their "team" lose. So if the US became a force, and sustained it for a significant period of time, say 20-30 years, you don't think their would be a decline in european interest in soccer? I'm not saying its going to become the equivalent of modern day baseball in europe, but it could be dropped from its current near religion status.

I'm going to go out on a huge limb here and at the risk of getting flamed, agree with but make a slight adjustment to the point. I think that if the US were to become a dominant force, ie. win the world cup, there would be a certain degree of a backlash from the rest of the world. You can't tell me that from the european perspective there would be a little less gloss on the WC trophy if it was carried away by the americans one day. I can't imagine the USA would be graceful winners in such a scenario as well, rubbing salt further into the wound.
I'm not going to comment on popularity or anything like that, but you can't tell me that if this trophy was won by a 'non-traditional' soccer power like the USA (who as a nation has collectively shown a disinterest in the sport) there would be a positive effect on the game in europe.

this article is trash but you're dead wrong here. US military is far superior to China's and no airforce in the world is even close to the US.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: This post reminds of a guy I went to college with, and whenever my friends would make jokes directed towards the USA he would go into this whole speech about why the USA military is the greatest in the world, citing all kinds of specifics. The amusing thing was it simply backed up our contention that the US has one giant inferiority complex.

The funniest thing about it though was that he thought we actually cared. :biglaugh:

:biglaugh: My biggest kick was Llamas the former U.S defender on Yahoo stating the U.S could beat Italy easy and could hammer out a draw against the Czechs. In reality the U.S will be lucky to beat Ghana any true soccer fans know this

You guys don't like it because you're not (really) in the top ten at it.


Are you serious???? :biglaugh:

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: This post reminds of a guy I went to college with, and whenever my friends would make jokes directed towards the USA he would go into this whole speech about why the USA military is the greatest in the world, citing all kinds of specifics. The amusing thing was it simply backed up our contention that the US has one giant inferiority complex.

The funniest thing about it though was that he thought we actually cared. :biglaugh:
if you don't care, don't respond. it's not like i brought it up. denying the US is a superpower is pretty delusional.

it's not really an inferiority complex. the complex that the US has, and that i actually can't stand, is the "we couldn't care less about anyone but the US" complex.

In canada soccer is the biggest summer sport, winter is a different story therefore hockey and soccer dont compete directly ,however in the US soccer competes with american football, bball and baseball as summer sports (or field sports) despite that more kids choose to play soccer, that should tell you something.


However you forgot to mention that in the US registration for basketball etc is even cheaper, so how do you explain so many youth soccer players now?

Found something more
http://sev.prnewswire.com/entertainment/20050906/NYTU06906092005-1.html
Soccer is one of the most popular youth participant sports in the U.S. with more than 18 million children ages 5-19 participating regularly. In fact, more children participate in organized soccer than in any other youth sport.

I have to ask how often you've spent time in America? I have no idea where you are from, but quoting statistics such as this seems to imply that you've no idea the state soccer is at in the United States. In many areas, almost all the kids play soccer at one point in their lives. In the South (arguably America's top regional producer of athletic talent), soccer is a kids sport in the eyes of many.

You start playing soccer at the age of 5-7 and continue up until age 10-13. At this point, the most talented athletes leave soccer and pursue either baseball, football, or basketball, which despite what you've said, are able to be played simultaneously with soccer. In many instances, only those who aren't cut out for the other sports remain in soccer.

Soccer still has strong numbers of participants in the high school levels, but the talent is meager. The best athletes in the U.S. do not consider soccer a viable sport to pursue and when the time comes to focus on one sport due to training/time constaints, soccer always loses out with very rare exceptions.

In Tennessee, for example, Soccer is the number one sport in terms of the total volume of participants. The quality of our baseball, basketball, and football teams are nationally recognized. It is not uncommon for the state to be well represented in national rankings in all three sports. But we've never fielded a competitive soccer team. That doesn't support the data you've provided because you see high levels of participation in soccer combined with high levels of athletic talent all coming together to produce almost no soccer elite talent at all. Despite that, we've produced a significant amount of athletic talent in other sports.

Tennessee isn't an anomaly. Most states outside of a few small pockets share similary stories. The U.S. can be good at soccer, but you simply cannot use the statistics that you've provided to show anything definitive. And that's because the talent in the U.S. never finds its way to soccer. The best athletes in the U.S., unlike the dominant countries in soccer, almost always chose a sport different from soccer when the time comes to decide on a career.

It's a casual use of irony my friend...

It was more like the casual misuse of irony. The author of this piece deserved a strongly worded, poignant response. You, however, did not deliver that.

Here's what you did deliver though:

* Strong, sometimes inaccurate generalizations/stereotypes of Americans/entertainment
* Poor grammar - Not a big deal as I'm not a grammar nazi. But when attacking someone's writing ability, it's best to cross every 't' and dot every 'i' in that respect.
* Insults
* Mocking
* Unexplored/unsubstantiated accusations

Your response did nothing more than make you feel better. In fact, I'd say the author's beliefs on soccer are held more strongly than ever. You'd have been better served going outside and punting a soccer ball a few times. It would have served your cause better.

if you don't care, don't respond. it's not like i brought it up. denying the US is a superpower is pretty delusional.

it's not really an inferiority complex. the complex that the US has, and that i actually can't stand, is the "we couldn't care less about anyone but the US" complex.
I didn't deny they are a superpower. It scares the **** out of me because they ARE a superpower and they have a drunkard manning the switch right now......

I was simply sharing a memoir from my college days that I found hilarious, because this kid would rip every one of our countries to shreds and as soon as we would mention the USA he would turn to "robot-patriot mode".....
I don't know that its a "we dont care about anything outside the US complex" as just plain ignorance to anything outside of the US. The knowledge level among american kids that I meet with regards to the world around them is quite stunning in terms of how pathetic it is. Kids that live in midwestern and southern states, especially are very rarely exposed to anything outside of their own little incubised world, and this ignorance is directly responsible for the inferiority complex that I'm talking about.

I didn't deny they are a superpower. It scares the **** out of me because they ARE a superpower and they have a drunkard manning the switch right now......

I was simply sharing a memoir from my college days that I found hilarious, because this kid would rip every one of our countries to shreds and as soon as we would mention the USA he would turn to "robot-patriot mode".....
I don't know that its a "we dont care about anything outside the US complex" as just plain ignorance to anything outside of the US. The knowledge level among american kids that I meet with regards to the world around them is quite stunning in terms of how pathetic it is. Kids that live in midwestern and southern states, especially are very rarely exposed to anything outside of their own little incubised world, and this ignorance is directly responsible for the inferiority complex that I'm talking about.

Inferiority? I would argue that many of these robo-patriots suffer from a superiority complex. It's actually, as Dark Metamorphisis said, the lack of a healthy concern for others. You can pretend, based on one solitary person and an extreme generalization of the south and midwest, that it is an inferiority complex. But the mark of an inferiority complex is a distinct concern for what others think about you and your actions. It's about how you measure up. Each action you take it compared to others. That's not usually the case here.

The narcissistic attitude displayed by robo-patriots shows utter distain for others and their opinions. In their minds, the Americans are the best. And to their credit, there is plenty of evidence to back this up. They believe that what America does is in the best interests of those around them. They don't measure their actions against that of their peers. Why? Because in a robo-patriot's mind, the U.S. has no peers. Fortunately for us and unfortunately for your argument, these people are a distinct minority and are not to be confused with your typical patriots that are scattered throughout the south, midwest and (gasp!) the rest of America.

Most patriots have shed a fair portion of their disdain for the thoughts of others and have embraced concepts such as globalization, which is, in some veins, an acknowledgement that the U.S. isn't the best at everything and that it needs the help of other countries to achieve its necessary potential on a variety of fronts. These patriots feel their country is the best, but understand that it isn't the best at everything. Most importantly, they understand that the country has flaws and shortcomings.

Venture through south and you'll meet your share of robo-patriots. You'll probably see far too many for my tastes. You won't see that many though because they only exist in small pockets and simply don't possess numbers. You will see a lot of patriots though. People who will die for their country, but recognize its frailty. Above all though, they still recognize their country as the best on earth. Right or wrong, every strong country is filled with wonderful, intelligent people who share similar thoughts about their own country.

Perhaps I'm guilty of generalising to a degree, particularly about the south, but my statements come from my own experiences going to college in ohio and spending 4 years being looked at like I had two heads because I talk a little differently.

You certainly have a valid point about the narcissistic quality of the robo patriots but for every narcissistic robo-patriot I will give you one who uses his patriotism as a defense mechanism against a perceived threat from something that's 'different'. This difference triggers the defense mechanism to such a degree because the robo-patriots have such an over-sensitivity to the outside world because they are generally ignorant of it.

Likewise for every patriot that recognizes the benefits of global outsourcing (and it's something that I vehemently agree with), I'll give you a "Those damn Indians and Mexicans are taking all our jobs".....

I'm going to go out on a huge limb here and at the risk of getting flamed, agree with but make a slight adjustment to the point. I think that if the US were to become a dominant force, ie. win the world cup, there would be a certain degree of a backlash from the rest of the world. You can't tell me that from the european perspective there would be a little less gloss on the WC trophy if it was carried away by the americans one day. I can't imagine the USA would be graceful winners in such a scenario as well, rubbing salt further into the wound.
I'm not going to comment on popularity or anything like that, but you can't tell me that if this trophy was won by a 'non-traditional' soccer power like the USA (who as a nation has collectively shown a disinterest in the sport) there would be a positive effect on the game in europe.


Why would there be a backlash? I would think that the other teams would simply fight harder to beat the US or any other 'non-traditional' team that won. Like when Greech won the euro championship(out of nowhere), I think it spurred on the rest of the teams to take back the title. Personally I think the broader the game the better, and I would love having a powerful US team to fight against.

Perhaps I'm guilty of generalising to a degree, particularly about the south, but my statements come from my own experiences going to college in ohio and spending 4 years being looked at like I had two heads because I talk a little differently.

You certainly have a valid point about the narcissistic quality of the robo patriots but for every narcissistic robo-patriot I will give you one who uses his patriotism as a defense mechanism against a perceived threat from something that's 'different'. This difference triggers the defense mechanism to such a degree because the robo-patriots have such an over-sensitivity to the outside world because they are generally ignorant of it.

Likewise for every patriot that recognizes the benefits of global outsourcing (and it's something that I vehemently agree with), I'll give you a "Those damn Indians and Mexicans are taking all our jobs".....

You are making some damning accusations based on very little experience. You speak of this like you are well-groomed in American culture but from the likes of it, your forray into America can only be described as limited. How often did you spend significant time in other parts of America, especially the oft-maligned South?

College is a melting pot of intelligent youths, but it's hardly the gathering point for the nation's most intelligent and wise. Most college students are idealistic and foolish. I'd argue that, depending on your college, you were hardly afforded the opportunity to make accurate generalizations of Americans. And I would imagine that if you showed the same attitude that you possess right now, you provoked much of what you are currently maligning.

Attacking anyone will make them defensive. In your mind, this response is indicative of an inferiority complex. If that's the case, all of nature has an inferiority complex. Even the most narcisstic robo-patriot is going to retaliate when provoked regarding the superiority of his country. Despite what the name implies, they are not robots. They cannot block out all that is said by perceived inferiors, so they will often take the bait. I think this inferiority complex is a misdiagnosis on your part. The seeds that help spawn an inferiority complex just are not present in substantial numbers in American society.

From my experience, most american's don't know as much about europe as europeans. And europeans know just as little about the USA as americans know about europe. Shocking I know.

you were hardly afforded the opportunity to make accurate generalizations of Americans.


This here is the heart of the problem. While there are certain qualities that are undoubtably american, I'd say this country is as culturally diverse as your going to find. Going to school in Ohio doesn't tell you much about the culture of the northeast, and living in the northeast tells you little aobut the south. Infact, when I travel in Europe i usually feel like the cultures that I encounter there are for closer to what I'm used to in New York than what I encounter when I travel in the south.

It's a big country, and I think trying to classify an 'american' culture is pretty pointless.

I have to ask how often you've spent time in America? I have no idea where you are from, but quoting statistics such as this seems to imply that you've no idea the state soccer is at in the United States. In many areas, almost all the kids play soccer at one point in their lives. In the South (arguably America's top regional producer of athletic talent), soccer is a kids sport in the eyes of many.

You start playing soccer at the age of 5-7 and continue up until age 10-13. At this point, the most talented athletes leave soccer and pursue either baseball, football, or basketball, which despite what you've said, are able to be played simultaneously with soccer. In many instances, only those who aren't cut out for the other sports remain in soccer.

Soccer still has strong numbers of participants in the high school levels, but the talent is meager. The best athletes in the U.S. do not consider soccer a viable sport to pursue and when the time comes to focus on one sport due to training/time constaints, soccer always loses out with very rare exceptions.

In Tennessee, for example, Soccer is the number one sport in terms of the total volume of participants. The quality of our baseball, basketball, and football teams are nationally recognized. It is not uncommon for the state to be well represented in national rankings in all three sports. But we've never fielded a competitive soccer team. That doesn't support the data you've provided because you see high levels of participation in soccer combined with high levels of athletic talent all coming together to produce almost no soccer elite talent at all. Despite that, we've produced a significant amount of athletic talent in other sports.

Tennessee isn't an anomaly. Most states outside of a few small pockets share similary stories. The U.S. can be good at soccer, but you simply cannot use the statistics that you've provided to show anything definitive. And that's because the talent in the U.S. never finds its way to soccer. The best athletes in the U.S., unlike the dominant countries in soccer, almost always chose a sport different from soccer when the time comes to decide on a career.
I am quite familiar with the state of soccer in the US thank you. I am from minneapolis and am actively involved with youth soccer organisations etc etc.

The argument started when somebody mentioned that the US doesnt dominate in soccer because kids dont play it here and its not popular as a sport at all. Thats all i was responding to. Its ofcourse true that generally speaking the best athletic talent in the country doesnt go into soccer. However its insane to say that kids in the US dont play soccer or that there is no infrastructure for soccer. They definitely get the chance if they so desire to excel in the game.

It also seems like you are implying that once the best athletes from the US go into soccer they will dominate the game. Its not that simple and the argument shows me how much you overestimate the athletic talent of the US. In soccer the competition is fierce and from every corner of the globe. The talent pool is huge. Its not California vs Florida like we are used to here. Players from abroad have excelled against the top american atheletes in pro basketball and football leagues here. Players like Olajuwon, Ginobili, barbosa , nowitzki etc etc have done quite well in American sports, infact dominated them at times. However no American in the history of soccer has ever completely dominated it like Olajuwon dominated Bball or even become an "All-Star" calibre player like Ginobili or nowitzki. If a Nigerian can dominate America's game how come no American has ever dominated Nigeria's game? Surely soccer is more popular in the States than Bball is in Nigeria or Germany or Brazil or Argentina....

One thing, you don't necessary need that much athletic ability to be a football (soccer) player. Basketball players, hockey players, football players, ... IMO they all are generally better athletes.

A soccer player just needs a bit of endurance and a lot of talent. Speed/strenght/agility is of course an added bonus but isn't necessary if you are an exceptional talent in the sport.

And I don't see why the US should be excluded from having an elite talent one of these days, lightning doesn't strike everywhere all the time. And a lot of development and luck (coaching, opposition, desire by the player, ....) is needed to get the talent to work at the highest level, maybe that's the biggest drawback of the US right now.

I think the US need an academy like Gillou's in Ivory Coast or something similar : some experienced professionnals that are used to develop talent into future pro players.
Right now, we can see that the countries/clubs that develop the most pros (both in quantity and in quality) come from countries/clubs that have put big money and time in academies (Holland, France, Barcelona, etc...).
Good scouting + good academies = good pro players

I think the US need an academy like Gillou's in Ivory Coast or something similar : some experienced professionnals that are used to develop talent into future pro players.
Right now, we can see that the countries/clubs that develop the most pros (both in quantity and in quality) come from countries/clubs that have put big money and time in academies (Holland, France, Barcelona, etc...).
Good scouting + good academies = good pro players

Exactly.

That's for instance why England is falling behind, the whole academy structure in England is not working, the players only get there when they're what, 15-16 and they don't even train nearly enough compared to their French/Dutch/... counterparts.

The same has to be said for Belgium, right now there are about 4 good development centres: Anderlecht, Genk, GBA and Bruges. All the rest is in shambles.


What I don't get is how it comes Belgium for instance (can't speak for England) didn't follow the example much earlier, it's been clear for years.

From my experience, most american's don't know as much about europe as europeans. And europeans know just as little about the USA as americans know about europe. Shocking I know.
However Europeans know a hell of a lot more about the rest of the world than Americans.

That reply tells me a lot about you too.

In Canada, there are more hockey players than football players, hence hockey is more popular. The fact that there are more youngsters signing up to play football means that they are closing the gap in popularity.

It's not difficult fella, you only need a modicum of sense to work it out. Maybe that's where you're going wrong?
Yeah and it has nothing to do with Soccer being way cheaper to play and in the summer when there is very little hockey to be played. Use your head before you try to bash someone.

You are making some damning accusations based on very little experience. You speak of this like you are well-groomed in American culture but from the likes of it, your forray into America can only be described as limited. How often did you spend significant time in other parts of America, especially the oft-maligned South?

College is a melting pot of intelligent youths, but it's hardly the gathering point for the nation's most intelligent and wise. Most college students are idealistic and foolish. I'd argue that, depending on your college, you were hardly afforded the opportunity to make accurate generalizations of Americans. And I would imagine that if you showed the same attitude that you possess right now, you provoked much of what you are currently maligning.

Attacking anyone will make them defensive. In your mind, this response is indicative of an inferiority complex. If that's the case, all of nature has an inferiority complex. Even the most narcisstic robo-patriot is going to retaliate when provoked regarding the superiority of his country. Despite what the name implies, they are not robots. They cannot block out all that is said by perceived inferiors, so they will often take the bait. I think this inferiority complex is a misdiagnosis on your part. The seeds that help spawn an inferiority complex just are not present in substantial numbers in American society.
Then maybe I just met people of which I speak in an abnormally high proportion, I don't know. Incidently, you are making quite a few assumptions here yourself about me, my experience and my attitudes. Don't assume that I simply sat in my little college bubble and paid no attention to the world around me. During my time in the states I have made every effort to experience as much of the country as I can because I feel as a visitor to the country the respectful thing to do is to gain as much of an understanding of the people around me as possible. I highlighted some things in your post that irked me, because the impression I get is that you are envisioning me walking the streets bagging america and its people and taking a cynical stance on the response. That is absolute rubbish. I don't want to get into a psycho-babble argument on the american psyche, so whatever you say about complexes so be it. I'm not in a position to make proper diagnoses so I will leave that to you. My main argument is that for the most part, through my experiences all over the country and my observations, a majority of americans are completely ignorant of the world around them.

Believe it or not, I have heard the following spoken to me many many times since I have been in the country:
wow considering you're from australia, your english is really really good
Hell, your own AP not too long ago provided a report that detailed just how pathetic the geography skills are of american high school students, showing that most of them can't even point to Iraq on a map. All I'm saying is that all these 'complexes' we talk about arise because at least half of the americans ive met know absolutely nothing about the rest of the world (except what they are told via cnn, etc which is soooooooo accurate). The saddest part is that many of the ignorant don't WANT to know any more, they are perfectly content with their (limited) knowledge level.

Incidently, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here about our opinions. I am simply stating an opinion that has formed in my mind over time from extensive observation and interaction such as the quote above. I am most certainly not making 'damning accusations' but rather sharing an opinion after being attacked for a comment that I made in reference to a casual social setting. To imply that I am in some way 'provoking' such robo-patriotism is actually offensive. If you don't mind my asking, what gives you the basis for your opinion? It is, after all, an opinion, no?

This here is the heart of the problem. While there are certain qualities that are undoubtably american, I'd say this country is as culturally diverse as your going to find. Going to school in Ohio doesn't tell you much about the culture of the northeast, and living in the northeast tells you little aobut the south. Infact, when I travel in Europe i usually feel like the cultures that I encounter there are for closer to what I'm used to in New York than what I encounter when I travel in the south.

It's a big country, and I think trying to classify an 'american' culture is pretty pointless.
Where on Earth did I make a generalisation about American culture? Show me one post in which I made any reference to what american culture consists of. You'll get no argument from me that New York feels less "american" whatever that is. I never ever brought up the word culture for good reason, because In my mind it is unrelated to what I'm trying to get at.

Then maybe I just met people of which I speak in an abnormally high proportion, I don't know. Incidently, you are making quite a few assumptions here yourself about me, my experience and my attitudes. Don't assume that I simply sat in my little college bubble and paid no attention to the world around me. During my time in the states I have made every effort to experience as much of the country as I can because I feel as a visitor to the country the respectful thing to do is to gain as much of an understanding of the people around me as possible. I highlighted some things in your post that irked me, because the impression I get is that you are envisioning me walking the streets bagging america and its people and taking a cynical stance on the response. That is absolute rubbish. I don't want to get into a psycho-babble argument on the american psyche, so whatever you say about complexes so be it. I'm not in a position to make proper diagnoses so I will leave that to you. My main argument is that for the most part, through my experiences all over the country and my observations, a majority of americans are completely ignorant of the world around them.

Forgive me for coming across harsh with the accusation that you provoked these attacks. That was not my point. I was merely stating that if you displayed the same aggressive attitude with most Americans that you've showed in this thread, you are going to get negative responses that are only going to fuel your beliefs. If you came in and remained with a clean slate and unhindered thoughts, then you are going to be able to receive great insight into the American culture. But if you don't, you won't receive a true picture. That was more or less my point.

Though I didn't actually intend to make an accusation, the comments regarding your robo-patriot college mate and your attitude in this thread paint a picture, in my mind, of strong provacation. If that is not the case, I apologize. But I don't think my inferences were all that out of line considering all I have to go on with regards to you is a little anecdotal evidence.

Believe it or not, I have heard the following spoken to me many many times since I have been in the country:
Quote:

wow considering you're from australia, your english is really really good


Having spent a couple of months in Sydney about 13 years ago, I must say that they are right. As an Australian, your English is really good. ;)


Hell, your own AP not too long ago provided a report that detailed just how pathetic the geography skills are of american high school students, showing that most of them can't even point to Iraq on a map. All I'm saying is that all these 'complexes' we talk about arise because at least half of the americans ive met know absolutely nothing about the rest of the world (except what they are told via cnn, etc which is soooooooo accurate). The saddest part is that many of the ignorant don't WANT to know any more, they are perfectly content with their (limited) knowledge level.

I would agree that the state of the average American isn't acceptable. More and more, the American educational system is becoming polarized. Some of the smartest young people in the world come from America. Unfortunately, some of the dumbest do too. That, however, was not what we were arguing about. You were saying that it was because of this ignorance that we had an inferiority complex. I merely attacked that notion as well as your accusation that the South, because of its status as a giant incubator, breeds this complex.

Incidently, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here about our opinions. I am simply stating an opinion that has formed in my mind over time from extensive observation and interaction such as the quote above. I am most certainly not making 'damning accusations' but rather sharing an opinion after being attacked for a comment that I made in reference to a casual social setting. To imply that I am in some way 'provoking' such robo-patriotism is actually offensive. If you don't mind my asking, what gives you the basis for your opinion? It is, after all, an opinion, no?

My basis for opinion also stems from observation. I've lived in a half-dozen American cities and have had many international friends. And rarely do I see behavior such as what you've witnessed. Apparently, I've seen less robo-Patriots than yourself despite having lived in the hotbed for 15 years. I'm hardly an intellectual superior and rarely run in crowds filled with potential MENSA candidates, but it seems that the only time I consistently see people as dumb as what you are projecting is on TV. In other words, the only time I see these people is when others actively seek them out and then broadcast them for all to see.

My suggestion to you would be to avoid the uneducated and insulated Americans and instead communicate with the intelligent, educated, and internationally-conscious Americans. There are tens of millions out there. It is very easy as an American to ignore the outside world. The U.S. is so self-sufficient on the face and the influence of international culture is so well-blended that many people aren't going to appreciate what happens outside of our borders. Seek out the worldly Americans and I think you'll appreciate how the other half lives in this country. While it's not fair to judge Americans based on shows like Frazier, it's equally as unfair to judge Americans based on shows like Jerry Springer.

The U.S. is so self-sufficient :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

yeah it goes to war because it hasnt got enough oil of its own. The US are huge importers of loads of things, oil, electronics. Without imports, the US is screwed.

The amusing thing was it simply backed up our contention that the US has one giant inferiority complex.

Well then your contention was completely wrong. We have a superiority complex, not an inferiority complex.

:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

yeah it goes to war because it hasnt got enough oil of its own.

Who is our partner in that "war"?

:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

yeah it goes to war because it hasnt got enough oil of its own. The US are huge importers of loads of things, oil, electronics. Without imports, the US is screwed.

As every country on the planet. But they are the closest to be self-sufficient.


It's not the point anyway. The lack of popularity of soccer in the USA is mostly a question of tradition and history. There was organized baseball in the US before soccer was organized in Europe. It became worldwide mostly because of the english empire and how simple it is to play. In almost every country, it was the 1st organized sports. They did'nt choose it because it's the best sport, they choose it because it's the only one they knew. Having others more sophisticated sports, it's normal that NA did'nt got into it.


Also in NA we are'nt used to those rivalities between countries. The world cup of baseball made this pretty clear. It's why we don't care about the fact that it's a world sport.

It was more like the casual misuse of irony. The author of this piece deserved a strongly worded, poignant response. You, however, did not deliver that.

Here's what you did deliver though:

* Strong, sometimes inaccurate generalizations/stereotypes of Americans/entertainment
* Poor grammar - Not a big deal as I'm not a grammar nazi. But when attacking someone's writing ability, it's best to cross every 't' and dot every 'i' in that respect.
* Insults
* Mocking
* Unexplored/unsubstantiated accusations

Which was precisely what i wanted to do. I also struggle to see where the grammar is poor, one or two points at most I imagine, The insults and mockingness were fully intended are fairly well put across if you ask me, obviously you disagree but it doesn't bother me too much. You don't need to be too intelligent to notice that I wasn't being entirely serious regarding my generalisations either. As for unsubstantiated accusations, of which do you refer?

Your response did nothing more than make you feel better. In fact, I'd say the author's beliefs on soccer are held more strongly than ever. You'd have been better served going outside and punting a soccer ball a few times. It would have served your cause better.

I'm not entirely sure what else the letter could possibly have achieved other than making me feel better, so in that purpose it succeeded.

Oh, and I have never 'punted' a 'soccer' ball in my life.

Forgive me for coming across harsh with the accusation that you provoked these attacks. That was not my point. I was merely stating that if you displayed the same aggressive attitude with most Americans that you've showed in this thread, you are going to get negative responses that are only going to fuel your beliefs. If you came in and remained with a clean slate and unhindered thoughts, then you are going to be able to receive great insight into the American culture. But if you don't, you won't receive a true picture. That was more or less my point.
forgiven. However what I was trying to get at was that I came to this country with a clean slate and the general opinion has formed over my time here. So just as a clarification please don't think I came here initially with that attitude. In reality I probably had a rosey view if anything, stemming from my gratitude at having being offered the opportunity to experience this country as one of its own.

Though I didn't actually intend to make an accusation, the comments regarding your robo-patriot college mate and your attitude in this thread paint a picture, in my mind, of strong provacation. If that is not the case, I apologize. But I don't think my inferences were all that out of line considering all I have to go on with regards to you is a little anecdotal evidence.
That is my fault for not providing the proper context. My college group was most certainly a mixed international bunch and during casual, light-hearted conversations each of our countries would be the target of some jesting. Usually the response would be a good laugh at your own country's expense and moving on. The exception was our robo-patriot friend who would go into his aforementioned spin about the military, etc. Throughout my time here I discovered that this sort of reaction was actually more prevalent than I had realised among the general population, and over time it became the dominant characteristic in my eyes.



Having spent a couple of months in Sydney about 13 years ago, I must say that they are right. As an Australian, your English is really good. ;)
Ah yes, if only the statement had been mentioned to me in such a tongue in cheek way. I'm sure the look on my face is always priceless when I realise these people are serious.




I would agree that the state of the average American isn't acceptable. More and more, the American educational system is becoming polarized. Some of the smartest young people in the world come from America. Unfortunately, some of the dumbest do too. That, however, was not what we were arguing about. You were saying that it was because of this ignorance that we had an inferiority complex. I merely attacked that notion as well as your accusation that the South, because of its status as a giant incubator, breeds this complex.
It was a mistake on my part to mention the south specifically due to my relative lack of experiences there when compared to the midwest. What I did want to highlight was that the 'complex' of which I speak seems to be more prevalent in the 'inland' areas, where in general there is far less of a multicultural environment (I'm sure on that we can agree?)


My basis for opinion also stems from observation. I've lived in a half-dozen American cities and have had many international friends. And rarely do I see behavior such as what you've witnessed. Apparently, I've seen less robo-Patriots than yourself despite having lived in the hotbed for 15 years. I'm hardly an intellectual superior and rarely run in crowds filled with potential MENSA candidates, but it seems that the only time I consistently see people as dumb as what you are projecting is on TV. In other words, the only time I see these people is when others actively seek them out and then broadcast them for all to see.

My suggestion to you would be to avoid the uneducated and insulated Americans and instead communicate with the intelligent, educated, and internationally-conscious Americans. There are tens of millions out there. It is very easy as an American to ignore the outside world. The U.S. is so self-sufficient on the face and the influence of international culture is so well-blended that many people aren't going to appreciate what happens outside of our borders. Seek out the worldly Americans and I think you'll appreciate how the other half lives in this country. While it's not fair to judge Americans based on shows like Frazier, it's equally as unfair to judge Americans based on shows like Jerry Springer.
Believe me, I have certainly met many people in this country who are well-educated, well-travelled and who have shown a genuine interest in my background, and that of my other foreign friends. Unfortunately the people that have stood out seem to be the overtly ignorant. However make no mistake that I value the people of which you speak greatly, and if not for the fact that I've met some great people here, I most certainly would not still be living in the country.

From my experience, most american's don't know as much about europe as europeans. And europeans know just as little about the USA as americans know about europe. Shocking I know.
From my experience, there are plenty of Americans barely even acknowledge the existence of Europe, let alone know which countries it contains.

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but i find that the UK in particular are fairly well clued-up on the rest of the world. Geography is a strong subject in schools and you certainly wouldn't come across anyone who thought that Holland, Sweden, Italy and England were all cities in Europe....

Well then your contention was completely wrong. We have a superiority complex, not an inferiority complex.
As I've mentioned, I am not a psychologist and what I perceive to be an inferiority complex may well be a superiority complex. I have definitely admitted that I was wrong on that point and I am not going to argue. It is most definitely a complex of some description.

The argument started when somebody mentioned that the US doesnt dominate in soccer because kids dont play it here and its not popular as a sport at all. Thats all i was responding to. Its ofcourse true that generally speaking the best athletic talent in the country doesnt go into soccer. However its insane to say that kids in the US dont play soccer or that there is no infrastructure for soccer. They definitely get the chance if they so desire to excel in the game.

I understand that that is what you were arguing. But you threw those numbers out in a way t