What Flaw Beat The Devils?

What was exposed when they were taken out so quickly?

The team was not constructed correctly because the new rules left management with no precedent for team building.

The team the Devils took the playoffs was top heavy and slower/more defensive minded in the back. Now we see that we need a lot of forward depth and a speedier defense, toughness is no longer as important because if you try to play anything resembling NHL hockey, you sit for 2:00. We have already begun to resolve the issues by signing guys like Andy Greene.

In the elimination 5th game, i felt as if we just couldn't get the puck out of our zone / keep it in their zone, our powerplay wasn't in sync.

In game 1 - everything went wrong
in game 2&3 - defense was too slow + cheap goals given up

getting Ken Klee instead of Jaroslav Spacek.

getting Ken Klee instead of Aki Berg.

Agreed.

It really came down to defensive depth.

We leaned far too much on Brian Rafalski. Rafalski is one hell of a defenseman, but he can't play 60 minutes. We miscast Brad Lukowich into a high-importance role. We miscast Ken Klee in an NHL role.

I don't think it came down to any particular flaw, but just the series against Carolina. That first game the Devils were a bit flat-footed after a week off while the 'Canes came at them real hard. It was the second game that really put the Devils in a hole, losing the lead with three seconds left. I wonder what would happen had we won that game. Carolina is a better skating team but I think they had a game plan on Marty before the series even began. They threw the puck at him from every possible angle. Marty did adjust for the second game but guys like Whitney and Weight are terrific sneaky passers and they were key for that game and the rest of the series.

There's one big flaw that caused a domino effect of magnifying our other little flaws:

Lack of speed and pressure created by our defense corps.

It falls a little bit on the defensemen and their skillsets and a little bit on the way the Devils' system is.

Basically we need a little more speed on the blue line, but more importantly, we need to modify our system a bit to do two things:

1) Get our defensemen more involved as threats to create offensive pressure in both moving the puck up the ice and in the offensive zone itself.

- Other teams are well aware 90% of our attack come from our forwards while our defensemen for the most part are there as pinching support or there to provide relief on a fail advance. While this provides great insurance against giving up odd man rushes, it also allows more sustained pressure from the other team which is even more difficult to handle. If the other teams see our defensemen as real threats to move the puck into the zone and score from the blue line while it's in their zone, it will relieve pressure off of our forwards while also adding some much needed scoring from our D.

2) Get our defensemen a bit more involved in holding our own blue line to give our forecheck the opportunity to create more pressure.

- Our D seems too willing to give up the blue line and get in defensive position to protect against the possible odd man rush. Since there is no longer a two-line pass, this allows the other team to make the pass to get by our forecheck too easily. Having the D hold the blue line better will allow the forecheck to do their job better.

Basically both boil down to being more aggressive on D and having more speed helps a lot.

I don't think there was one particular thing that beat us. And if we had won game 2, I believe it would have been a completely different series. Also, White's injury was a killer - if he had been protecting the net at the end of that game instead of Lukowich, I think we win that game.

That said, here's my thoughts on the problems we had:
1) What happened to Gionta? He had 7 points in the postseason, but 6 of those were against the Rangers. He had one goal and no assists against Carolina. We needed him to score more.

2) A little more size up front. I realize that speed is huge, but the only big guys we have that will throw their bodies around are on the fourth line. Even our littlest players aren't afraid to get their noses dirty, but Parise and Gionta aren't really going to take a big toll on opposing team's defensemen.

3) A little more speed/offensive skill on defense. We have kind of the opposite problem at D than we do at forward, we need a bit more speed and a bit better passing. I thought we had problems getting going up the ice, especially when we were down and Carolina was sitting on a lead. Maybe it's just the more defensive style we play, I don't know.

4) Special teams need work, especially the power play. We won the Cup in '03 with our PP ranked 30th, but with the new NHL I don't think that will happen again. I'm not really sure what needs to be done to improve it, but it has to get better.

5) We really could have used a legit 2nd line center. I love Brylin, but he doesn't provide enough offense there. Elias was really the only big offensive threat on that line. Langenbrunner is very clutch, but he's not going to create scoring chances by himself the way that Elias and Gomez do.

Just my two cents.

I don't think there was one particular thing that beat us. And if we had won game 2, I believe it would have been a completely different series. Also, White's injury was a killer - if he had been protecting the net at the end of that game instead of Lukowich, I think we win that game.

That said, here's my thoughts on the problems we had:
1) What happened to Gionta? He had 7 points in the postseason, but 6 of those were against the Rangers. He had one goal and no assists against Carolina. We needed him to score more.

2) A little more size up front. I realize that speed is huge, but the only big guys we have that will throw their bodies around are on the fourth line. Even our littlest players aren't afraid to get their noses dirty, but Parise and Gionta aren't really going to take a big toll on opposing team's defensemen.

3) A little more speed/offensive skill on defense. We have kind of the opposite problem at D than we do at forward, we need a bit more speed and a bit better passing. I thought we had problems getting going up the ice, especially when we were down and Carolina was sitting on a lead. Maybe it's just the more defensive style we play, I don't know.

4) Special teams need work, especially the power play. We won the Cup in '03 with our PP ranked 30th, but with the new NHL I don't think that will happen again. I'm not really sure what needs to be done to improve it, but it has to get better.

5) We really could have used a legit 2nd line center. I love Brylin, but he doesn't provide enough offense there. Elias was really the only big offensive threat on that line. Langenbrunner is very clutch, but he's not going to create scoring chances by himself the way that Elias and Gomez do.

Just my two cents.

Pretty much what I was going to say. I think the major factors were #2 and #3.

Our offence was horrible against the hurricanes because we couldn't get in front of the net (which explains Gionta's performance). When that is the case, the defence needs to pinch, and we didnt have the guys to do it. Anyone else remember the pinch by Hale? if you do, you prove my point.

getting Ken Klee instead of Aki Berg.Agreed.The Leafs probably wanted something like Zach Parise, Paul Martin and a 1st Round Pick for Aki Berg.


Also, the day that Pat Quinn was let go by the Maple Leafs, I wanted to read the fan reaction on the Leafs board. I saw your post about Aki Berg heading back to Suomen Tasavalta. In honor of Berg's career with the Maple Leafs, I designed his banner that will hang in Air Canada Center when the Leafs honor his number. I posted it there, but you said that you wouldn't be back on that board on that board, so I don't think you saw it. Here is the banner (http://hfboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14608).

I don't think it came down to any particular flaw, but just the series against Carolina. That first game the Devils were a bit flat-footed after a week off while the 'Canes came at them real hard. It was the second game that really put the Devils in a hole, losing the lead with three seconds left. I wonder what would happen had we won that game.I go along with this assesment. Had the Devils held on in Game 2, it may very well have been a different series heading back to New Jersey tied one game each. The Game 2 loss was a killer emotionally.

However, Carolina has been a great team all sesaon long, and they got better by adding Doug Weight in February and Mark Recchi at the deadline. That allowed them to have three terrific lines.

I love it, well played DP

I don't think there was one particular thing that beat us. And if we had won game 2, I believe it would have been a completely different series. Also, White's injury was a killer - if he had been protecting the net at the end of that game instead of Lukowich, I think we win that game.

That said, here's my thoughts on the problems we had:
1) What happened to Gionta? He had 7 points in the postseason, but 6 of those were against the Rangers. He had one goal and no assists against Carolina. We needed him to score more.

2) A little more size up front. I realize that speed is huge, but the only big guys we have that will throw their bodies around are on the fourth line. Even our littlest players aren't afraid to get their noses dirty, but Parise and Gionta aren't really going to take a big toll on opposing team's defensemen.

3) A little more speed/offensive skill on defense. We have kind of the opposite problem at D than we do at forward, we need a bit more speed and a bit better passing. I thought we had problems getting going up the ice, especially when we were down and Carolina was sitting on a lead. Maybe it's just the more defensive style we play, I don't know.

4) Special teams need work, especially the power play. We won the Cup in '03 with our PP ranked 30th, but with the new NHL I don't think that will happen again. I'm not really sure what needs to be done to improve it, but it has to get better.

5) We really could have used a legit 2nd line center. I love Brylin, but he doesn't provide enough offense there. Elias was really the only big offensive threat on that line. Langenbrunner is very clutch, but he's not going to create scoring chances by himself the way that Elias and Gomez do.

Just my two cents.

I agree with much of what you said, but I'd like to quibble on points #1 and #4. In the games Carolina won, they collapsed in their zone excellently which effectively stymied much Devils' attempts of getting close to the net and dashing in a rebound. Gionta has the heart of a lion, but even he can't shine when surrounded by Hurricanes jerseys. Point #2 would address that and would take some of the heat off a Gionta trying to do most of that on his own.

As far as #4, the problem wasn't the power play itself as it was very much present in destroying the Rangers. The true issue is consistency. The power play just didn't show up in Games 1, 2, 3, and 5 against Carolina. It did in Game 4, which the Devils won. This team's power play is far and away better than the hideous PP of 2003's team; but you are right in that it needs more work.

Carolina was a well-oiled machine with no real shortcomings coming into that series other than Cam Ward in net. And Ward even answered those by stopping most of those few pucks he did see. The better team truly won, no shame in that. But it's good to calmly analyze what went wrong and determine how to fix it.

The Leafs probably wanted something like Zach Parise, Paul Martin and a 1st Round Pick for Aki Berg.


Also, the day that Pat Quinn was let go by the Maple Leafs, I wanted to read the fan reaction on the Leafs board. I saw your post about Aki Berg heading back to Suomen Tasavalta. In honor of Berg's career with the Maple Leafs, I designed his banner that will hang in Air Canada Center when the Leafs honor his number. I posted it there, but you said that you wouldn't be back on that board on that board, so I don't think you saw it. Here is the banner (http://hfboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14608).

:hockey:

:yo: :bow: :handclap:

We lost due to (3) reasons:

1) Acquiring 2 dead-weight defensemen at the trade deadline. Better ones could have been had if pursued. Get rid of them both before the season starts!

2) They didn't play the 4th line enough. Thus, exhausting the rest of the lines. Plus, Weimer was a lousy pick-up. The could have saved that $$$ for a better defenseman & played either Tallackson or Ryznar. Heck, they could have even called up Pikkarainen for that matter.

3) Marty needs to sit his butt out more often next year. He CANNOT play the amount of games that he's been allowed. I've been saying this for the past 5 years. He should be told 64 games is all he gets to play...that's it! With his ego wanting to keep his 40 game-winning seasons in tact, that would force Marty to focus more than ever but more importantly, get the rest he needs.

We lost due to (3) reasons:

1) Acquiring 2 dead-weight defensemen at the trade deadline. Better ones could have been had if pursued. Get rid of them both before the season starts!


There you go. Carolina got Doug Weight, we got dead weight.


2) They didn't play the 4th line enough. Thus, exhausting the rest of the lines. Plus, Weimer was a lousy pick-up. The could have saved that $$$ for a better defenseman & played either Tallackson or Ryznar. Heck, they could have even called up Pikkarainen for that matter.

Absolutely. I knew Carolina could roll four lines, so the least we could have done was try the same. As you say, it would have kept our other lines a bit fresher

3) Marty needs to sit his butt out more often next year. He CANNOT play the amount of games that he's been allowed. I've been saying this for the past 5 years. He should be told 64 games is all he gets to play...that's it! With his ego wanting to keep his 40 game-winning seasons in tact, that would force Marty to focus more than ever but more importantly, get the rest he needs.

Again, you are right on. I know he wants to play all the time, but too bad. We will never have a good backup goalie until we allow one to get some playing time and prove that he is capable. 7 or 8 games a season just isn't enough time to do that.

I have to disagree on Brodeur playing that many games a year being a disadvantage to him, since he has done that his entire career and the years he won the Stanley Cup did that as well. I am not a Broduer fan but he is the ironman it seems, he can handle playing more games then anybody else. So I dont see how that can be something that hurts him just because the team lost this year, and he didnt neccessarily have a fabulous 2nd round perhaps(although he isnt the main reason the team lost by any means).

He wasn't 34 years old in the Cup seasons. That workload is a lot different at an advanced age.

He wasn't 34 years old in the Cup seasons.

Ding ding ding!

We lost due to (3) reasons:

1) Acquiring 2 dead-weight defensemen at the trade deadline. Better ones could have been had if pursued.

Who would you have pursued instead?

Who would you have pursued instead?

That is the problem with us Devil fans.....we always go "we should have pursued something better" but we never know what better is and how that "better" would have adjusted here.

Lukowich is far from dead weight.

I wish people would actually watch him play instead of generalize his peformance based on one play late in game 2. Next to Rafalski, he was our best d-man in the Carolina series, and by far our most physical.

A "more rested" Brodeur wouldn't have led to NJ scoring more goals or generating consistent pressure on Cam Ward against Carolina. I think Brodeur is the LEAST of our worries.

all in all, we still made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, as our great announcers said, after the olympic break or before, no one would have believe us if we said we would sweep the rangers and win a game in the 2nd round.

how can you criticize brodeur.. maybe the organization and brodeur are aware that we have no backup and/or we cant afford to not play him that much. a bad day for brodeur > a good day for many

I'm not criticizing Brodeur, but he just shouldn't be playing so much. The organization knows we don't have a good backup because it's the organization that prevents us from developing one. Get a guy to play 18-20 games a season and Marty will absolutely benefit.

Lukowich is far from dead weight.

I wish people would actually watch him play instead of generalize his play based on one play late in game 2. Next to Rafalski, he was our best d-man in the Carolina series, and by far our most physical.Good call. The guy is a heart and soul player that any team would be lucky to have. Given some time to get used to his new team and their style, I think he'll be one of the better Dmen for the Dev's next season.

We lost due to (3) reasons:

2) They didn't play the 4th line enough. Thus, exhausting the rest of the lines.


I would agree in theory but in reality......

I don't know how many times I have to say this, BUT OUR FOURTH LINE IS COMPLETELY USELESS.

They can't hold the puck down low in the offensive zone, The are a Defensive Liability that can't be trusted for more than 5 minutes a game, They provide no offense or defense........they really provide nothing.

You can't rely on 2 lines and a checking line to get it done. You can't have Madden and Pandolfo playing 20+ minutes a game.

The Devils Depth at forward WAS the FLAW! The biggest flaw the Devils have is at Center. When the Canes can put out Brind'amour and Staal the Devils have nothing to Match that. That forces Madden to be over played.

When the Devils could put out centers Arnott, Holik, the team was difficult to play against. The Devils kept the puck in the offensive zone and down low for long periods of time, taking pressure off the Defense and off of Brodeur.

Sorry But Gomez, Brylin, Madden and Rasmussen WILL NOT cut it. Against the Rangers it was no problem, they don't have a dominating center....Not even 1 good one.

In the elimination 5th game, i felt as if we just couldn't get the puck out of our zone / keep it in their zone, our powerplay wasn't in sync.

In game 1 - everything went wrong
in game 2&3 - defense was too slow + cheap goals given up


I think the following:

1. defensman were not pinching nearly enough; we made it very easy..all year for teams to break out of their own end..don't know if this is coaching philos. or lack of confidenceof dmen

2. Never really had a true #2 center

3. Never really had a dependable 4th line

4. the devils played well positionally in their own end; but gave up way too much space from nuetral zone, teams had a very easy time dumping it in on our defense and then forechecking, I think the system needs to be slighty adjusted next year to address a more aggresive game from our dmen and a little harder nuetral zone checking by forwards

5. overall i think we had a great season and the team came to play nearly every night

There's one big flaw that caused a domino effect of magnifying our other little flaws:

Lack of speed and pressure created by our defense corps.

It falls a little bit on the defensemen and their skillsets and a little bit on the way the Devils' system is.

Basically we need a little more speed on the blue line, but more importantly, we need to modify our system a bit to do two things:

1) Get our defensemen more involved as threats to create offensive pressure in both moving the puck up the ice and in the offensive zone itself.

- Other teams are well aware 90% of our attack come from our forwards while our defensemen for the most part are there as pinching support or there to provide relief on a fail advance. While this provides great insurance against giving up odd man rushes, it also allows more sustained pressure from the other team which is even more difficult to handle. If the other teams see our defensemen as real threats to move the puck into the zone and score from the blue line while it's in their zone, it will relieve pressure off of our forwards while also adding some much needed scoring from our D.

2) Get our defensemen a bit more involved in holding our own blue line to give our forecheck the opportunity to create more pressure.

- Our D seems too willing to give up the blue line and get in defensive position to protect against the possible odd man rush. Since there is no longer a two-line pass, this allows the other team to make the pass to get by our forecheck too easily. Having the D hold the blue line better will allow the forecheck to do their job better.

Basically both boil down to being more aggressive on D and having more speed helps a lot.

perfectly put;

Lukowich is far from dead weight.

I wish people would actually watch him play instead of generalize his peformance based on one play late in game 2. Next to Rafalski, he was our best d-man in the Carolina series, and by far our most physical.


lukowhich is more than decent defensman for 1 mill per season........albelin and hale should have played over klee; klee is through in my opinion, the devils just wanted another right handed shot from point

What was exposed when they were taken out so quickly?

Lack of leadership.

When the true leader is in a suit behind the bench instead of on the ice making statements the team cannot win the Cup.

Laviolette out-coached Lou.

Sorry But Gomez, Brylin, Madden and Rasmussen WILL NOT cut it. Against the Rangers it was no problem, they don't have a dominating center....Not even 1 good one.

Gomez isn't good? :eek:

Laviolette out-coached Lou.

No, Carolina is just a better team.

Gomez isn't good? :eek:



No, Carolina is just a better team.


I feel like the Devils were out classed by Carolina, but the major reason was the Laviolette made Lou look stupid on the bench. The Devils had no answer when Staal was being double shifted, which led to poor bench management to the Devils which did them in. I still do not believe the Hurricanes were a superior team than the Devils. If we had won Game 2, instead of lose it HOW we lost it, the series could have had a different outcome but we will never know.

I feel like the Devils were out classed by Carolina, but the major reason was the Laviolette made Lou look stupid on the bench. The Devils had no answer when Staal was being double shifted, which led to poor bench management to the Devils which did them in. I still do not believe the Hurricanes were a superior team than the Devils. If we had won Game 2, instead of lose it HOW we lost it, the series could have had a different outcome but we will never know.

Made Lou look stupid. For one, Lou doesn't deal with line changes and all that jazz. Two, our answer was John Madden. We can't do much more to stop Staal than to put the Madden line against him. I don't know what more you would have wanted.

I honestly thought the Devils were going to win the Stanley Cup pretty comfortably this year before the playoffs. They just seemed unstoppable the last month of the year, and the first round of the playoffs. Elias, Gomez, Langenbrunner were playing unbelievably, the defenseman who were filling the big shoes of Stevens and Niedermayer seemed to be living up to those roles near the end of the year, and Brodeur was playing his best hockey of the year by far, in a conference ripe with rookie playoff goalies this year. I thought their longest series would be 6 games, and probably only 1 or 2 of those. I am not even a fan of the Devils and I still thought they were going to win before the playoffs, and it would be a fairly uneventful(relative to other years)playoffs because of their romp to the Cup as well.

So it is hard to figure what went wrong from my own point of view, since it looked like there wasnt much danger of much going wrong when I looked at the team going into the playoffs and in the first round of the playoffs, even if the Rangers were a floundering team by that point who were never going to be as tough as later opponents.

Maybe they just peaked too early?

Gomez isn't good? :eek:




Nobody said Gomez wasn't good...........But as a group Gomez, Brylin, Madden and Rasmussen is the worst group of Centers NJ has iced in about 12 or 13 years

Maybe they just peaked too early?


Thats part of it...............The other part is people aren't giving the Hurricanes enough Credit.

That was a good team. Should anyone be surprised? The were 1 or 2 east for nearly the whole season.

Credit belongs to Carolina.

Thats part of it...............The other part is people aren't giving the Hurricanes enough Credit.

That was a good team. Should anyone be surprised? The were 1 or 2 east for nearly the whole season.

Credit belongs to Carolina.

Yeah I agree with that too, Carolina is an excellent team that were underestimated all playoffs long. They definitely not got the credit that somebody that was 1st or 2nd in the conference all season long would normaly get.

Nobody said Gomez wasn't good...........But as a group Gomez, Brylin, Madden and Rasmussen is the worst group of Centers NJ has iced in about 12 or 13 yearsThat's absurd. The year Gomez had is way better than anything Arnott had here. Madden was terrific again as a shutdown specialist. Rasmussen was a very good grinder, and Brylin was very solid in his own zone. His offensive production wasn't anything great, but he has also played center in the past. The Devils didn't lose because of their centermen.

That's absurd. The year Gomez had is way better than anything Arnott had here. Madden was terrific again as a shutdown specialist. Rasmussen was a very good grinder, and Brylin was very solid in his own zone. His offensive production wasn't anything great, but he has also played center in the past. The Devils didn't lose because of their centermen.

They absolutely Did loose cause of centerman. The Devils had NO answer for Brindamour. The Face % was horrible and even lead to a couple of goals during the playoffs.

Sorry.....Rasmussen would not be on any team I could put together and NO WAY IN Hell would Brylin be a 2nd line Center on any team I could control.

These guys as a group do not have the ability to keep the puck down low for long periods of time....If the Devils didn't score on the rush this season they typically didn't score. A long cycle from the Devils was NON-Existant this season.

Forget about the individuals, as a group this is not a good situation. Our top 3 Centers this season average 5'10.5 and 190#....and below 50% Faceoff percentage....So theyre A. small and
B. don't start off with the puck half of the time........You don't see an issue there?

The Devils spent far to much time in their own zone this season. The fact that Brodeur saw about 300 more shots than his average had very little to do with his defense or the "new nhl" as much as the inability of the forward to keep the puck in the other zone. That particular problem stems directly from the pivot.

Chalk me up as one of those who don't think there's anything wrong with the Devils. You can't judge a team based on one seven-game series.

Which isn't to say that the Devils won't need to make some adjustments this offseason, but the core of your team is one of the best around, even if Elias leaves.

Chalk me up as one of those who don't think there's anything wrong with the Devils. You can't judge a team based on one seven-game series.

Which isn't to say that the Devils won't need to make some adjustments this offseason, but the core of your team is one of the best around, even if Elias leaves.


I agree you can't judge a team by a 7 game series. You have to look at the entire season.

And the Devils had a problem with puck possession ALL YEAR.

I agree you can't judge a team by a 7 game series. You have to look at the entire season.

And the Devils had a problem with puck possession ALL YEAR.

I thought it improved as the year went on. It seems that by the end of the season, your team was just a machine.

I thought it improved as the year went on. It seems that by the end of the season, your team was just a machine.


Not really Look at when they were rolling............Everything was on the Rush

Not really Look at when they were rolling............Everything was on the Rush

I will accept the word of one who knows. Lou, get on that puck possession thing!

ONe other flaw i forgot to mention...............the devils when on the road were so bent on matching up lines that when we did get a good rush or a solid dump in our forwards and dmen were constantly pulling back and changing thus giving carolina basically a free out every time.

nothing wrong w/ matcing lines, but it really has become an obssession with the maclean and lou to the point where i think it contributed to lack of pressure on opposing defenses.

Forget about the individuals, as a group this is not a good situation. Our top 3 Centers this season average 5'10.5 and 190#....and below 50% Faceoff percentage....So theyre A. small and
B. don't start off with the puck half of the time........You don't see an issue there?
During the regular season, the guys that played some center for the Devils won over 50% of the draws. If you take Rasmussen, Kozlov and Parise out of the discussion, the Devils top three forwards won 51.32% of their faceoffs.

Player FO A FO W WIN %
John Madden 1,613 831 51.52%
Scott Gomez 1,434 754 52.58%
Sergei Brylin 807 393 48.70%
Erik Rasmussen 230 86 37.39%
Viktor Kozlov 185 87 47.03%
Zach Parise 162 69 42.59%
TOTALS 4,431 2,220 50.10%

What on earth is the answer to Brind'Amour in these playoffs? I'll tell you. It would be a freaking timemachine to go get Adam Oates in 1990.

Brind'Amour is on a mission this year and these playoffs. He's playing brilliant hockey in all phases of the games. Do you know what his faceoff winning percentage is in the playoffs? It's 60.31%. During the regular season, he finished 3rd in the NHL by winning 59.11% of his faceoffs. He also ranked 1st in the league in faceoffs attempted and faceoffs won. He took an incredible amount of the Hurricanes faceoffs and won a lot of them.

Rob Brind'Amour FO A FO W WIN %
Regular Season 2,145 1,268 59.11%
Playoffs 514 310 60.31%

Do you remember the 2003 Stanley Cup Finals? The Los Angeles Ducks of Anaheim were brilliant on the faceoff with Nieuwendyk out with an injury. Adam Oates was pretty darn good then as well, and the Devils were completely dominated on the faceoff. Despite that, the Devils won four of those seven games just like they won Game 7 of the ECF with Madden, Gomez and Brylin taking the faceoffs after Nieuwendyk left the game very early with an injury.

In conclusion, I don't think that the Devils centermen were the cause for the five-game series loss to Carolina. They were good enough to dominate the Rangers in impressive fashion.

In conclusion, I don't think that the Devils centermen were the cause for the five-game series loss to Carolina. They were good enough to dominate the Rangers in impressive fashion.


And the Rangers Best Centermen? Nylander? :dunno: Enough Said.


Who would you rather have As your Starters going into a game 7?
Which group is going to give your coach the ability to truely rotate 4 lines?
Which group is going to be able to better board work?
Which group is going to be able to cycle the puck?
Which group is better defensively?
Which group is going to take the pressure of your D-men and Goalie Better?


Joe Nieuwendyk
Scott Gomez
John Madden
Pascal Rheaume
Michael Rupp

Or

Scott Gomez
Sergie Brylin
John Madden
Eric Rasmussen




This group of 4 is Scary WEAK (Gomez, Brylin, Madden, Rasmussen)

You can't even trust the Rasmussen line to play more than 5 minutes a game and you are going to argue that the Center situation had nothing to do with problems this season? In 2003 We used Brylin-Rheaume-Stevenson-McKenzie-Marshall on the 4th line at different times........Now Brylin is a Second line Center?

Brylin at no time, in no world, is good enough to play Second line center.....He is a very good utility man.....Not a 2nd line Center.


You change Brylin to Arnott -- and Change The entire 4th line to players that be trusted to play 12 minutes a game and you have a completely different Devils team.

I would have rather seen something like Ryzner-Brylin-Marshall/Tallackson be our 4th Line than the current junk we put out there.

EDIT:

I would have rather seen something like Ryzner-Brylin-Marshall/Tallackson be our 4th Line than the current junk we put out there.

The current junk we put out there for 3.5 minutes a game

I was never a fan of the Rheaume for B. Ference deal, but Rheaume disappeared to San Antonio?

Too slow for the new NHL.

And the Rangers Best Centermen? Nylander? :dunno: Enough Said.


Who would you rather have As your Starters going into a game 7?
Which group is going to give your coach the ability to truely rotate 4 lines?
Which group is going to be able to better board work?
Which group is going to be able to cycle the puck?
Which group is better defensively?
Which group is going to take the pressure of your D-men and Goalie Better?


Joe Nieuwendyk
Scott Gomez
John Madden
Pascal Rheaume
Michael Rupp

Or

Scott Gomez
Sergie Brylin
John Madden
Eric Rasmussen




This group of 4 is Scary WEAK (Gomez, Brylin, Madden, Rasmussen)

You can't even trust the Rasmussen line to play more than 5 minutes a game and you are going to argue that the Center situation had nothing to do with problems this season? In 2003 We used Brylin-Rheaume-Stevenson-McKenzie-Marshall on the 4th line at different times........Now Brylin is a Second line Center?

Brylin at no time, in no world, is good enough to play Second line center.....He is a very good utility man.....Not a 2nd line Center.


You change Brylin to Arnott -- and Change The entire 4th line to players that be trusted to play 12 minutes a game and you have a completely different Devils team.

I would have rather seen something like Ryzner-Brylin-Marshall/Tallackson be our 4th Line than the current junk we put out there.Yeah, Brylin was good enough to play center on a team that won the Atlantic division and beat an inferior New York Rangers team in the first round.

Gomez is a much better, much more complete hockey player than he was prior to the lockout and certainly more so than he was in 2002-03. He is now a true number one center. He scores goals now, is better on faceoffs and is better defensively.

I don't buy your assertion that the centers are the reason for the Devils series loss to the Hurricanes. There are other reasons that were much more prevelent causes.

personally i think its the faceoffs that was the problem the entire series. cept for game 4, if u look at game 4 u'll see the devs, espeically gomez, winning alot of faceoffs, leading to the victory. another factor i dont think has been mentioned is bad luck. i wanted to die after the first two goals on game 1, and then the whole series they were jsut getting unlucky (i.e. game 2 ot winner)

Someone sent me this link after reading this thread.

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v0000msgn20060516T02042 3758&newsgroup=ap.sportsml.columnist.article&sports=ice-hockey&team=Devils&league=nhl

Yeah, Brylin was good enough to play center on a team that won the Atlantic division and beat an inferior New York Rangers team in the first round.

They might have won the Atlantic but they were not winning the Cup this year as Brylin as their second line center.

I adore Sergei. He is a very underrated player and plays with a lot of passion. He is a good player to have around depth wise and can be used in many roles but he is no way a 2nd line center. I am not even sure he is a 2nd line winger!

They absolutely Did loose cause of centerman. The Devils had NO answer for Brindamour. The Face % was horrible and even lead to a couple of goals during the playoffs.

Sorry.....Rasmussen would not be on any team I could put together and NO WAY IN Hell would Brylin be a 2nd line Center on any team I could control.

These guys as a group do not have the ability to keep the puck down low for long periods of time....If the Devils didn't score on the rush this season they typically didn't score. A long cycle from the Devils was NON-Existant this season.

Forget about the individuals, as a group this is not a good situation. Our top 3 Centers this season average 5'10.5 and 190#....and below 50% Faceoff percentage....So theyre A. small and
B. don't start off with the puck half of the time........You don't see an issue there?

The Devils spent far to much time in their own zone this season. The fact that Brodeur saw about 300 more shots than his average had very little to do with his defense or the "new nhl" as much as the inability of the forward to keep the puck in the other zone. That particular problem stems directly from the pivot.

Jim you are right and wrong w/this post....yes we spent way too much time in our own end and yes we spent very little time in the oppositions end... but I think your reasoning is somewhat wrong, yes you can attribute some to the center position but madden,brylin, and even gomez are all capable defensivly, the problem has more do to with the devils refusal of their defensman to hold the offensive blue line aside from rafalski. the devils dmen did not ever help the forwards out and backed out of the play way too early all playoffs and all season for the most part, which created a situation where the puck was in our end all year. this is the same reason they had a horrible start, and it showed up again in the carolina series.

Someone sent me this link after reading this thread.

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v0000msgn20060516T02042 3758&newsgroup=ap.sportsml.columnist.article&sports=ice-hockey&team=Devils&league=nhl
Chico left out Matvichuk on D.

Mistake, or does he know something?