Finally Some Closure on Nieds

So I've been harboring some resentment to the fact that he was still in the Playoff's. With each game the quacks won, I got madder and madder.

I know he did allot of us, but I still blame him for the stupid contracts we gave to mala-suck and mc"gameless". If only he had been straight up with Lou and given him time to sign competent defenseman.

So with him out of the way, and not potentially leading a different team to the cup. Oh and he didn't look good in this series. (That also made me happy)

The whole point here is that I finally can say that I think I'm over him screwing us.

Lindstrom for Norris in 2006, that'll get me over it.

im in the same boat you are!

I also harbor some resentment due to stringing Lou along and as mentioned into panick moves that hurt the team. And yes, he had a real bad series against the Oilers.

I know he did allot of us, but I still blame him for the stupid contracts we gave to mala-suck and mc"gameless". If only he had been straight up with Lou and given him time to sign competent defenseman.

I know you guys have some negative feelings towards him and I would too if I was a Devils fan, but how on Earth could you sit there and try to justify your GM making clueless, moronic signings like he did with those two and try to somehow shift the blame to Neids?

I definately agree that he shouldn't have left like he did, but this part of your post is absolutely ridiculous.

A guy plays a major role in helping your franchise win three Stanley Cups...and the respect he gets is "he screwed us"? :biglaugh:

He was a free agent. Free to choose his destination, when he wanted to. He owed NJD and you nothing. He gave you a GREAT 10+ years.

To wish him is ill now is one's pergoative, but painfully petty. And Niedermayer did not make the signings that followed him.

Guess if Elias happens to sign a deal elsewhere, he'll suddenly be a bum, too.

Man, are some fans ingrateful (and myopic).

Just my opinion.

A guy plays a major role in helping your franchise win three Stanley Cups...and the respect he gets is "he screwed us"? :biglaugh:

He was a free agent. Free to choose his destination, when he wanted to. He owed NJD and you nothing. He gave you a GREAT 10+ years.

To wish him is ill now is one's pergoative, but painfully petty. And Niedermayer did not make the signings that followed him.

Guess if Elias happens to sign a deal elsewhere, he'll suddenly be a bum, too.

Man, are some fans ingrateful (and myopic).

Just my opinion.

No, Niedermayer didn't make those signings, but he deprived the Devils of an oppurtunity to sign a top flight defenseman. He never had any intention of re-signing, let's be honest. He only used the Devils as a bargaining chip to drive up his price in Anaheim, and, as a result, cost us an oppurtunity to get a guy like Aucoin, or whoever, just for an extra 400k? I understand he had a right to do what he did, but I don't see how you can fault Devils fans for being a bit miffed at him for that.

No, Niedermayer didn't make those signings, but he deprived the Devils of an oppurtunity to sign a top flight defenseman. He never had any intention of re-signing, let's be honest. He only used the Devils as a bargaining chip to drive up his price in Anaheim, and, as a result, cost us an oppurtunity to get a guy like Aucoin, or whoever, just for an extra 400k? I understand he had a right to do what he did, but I don't see how you can fault Devils fans for being a bit miffed at him for that.

No one says you guys don't have the right to be a bit angry.

But blamming him for Lou's moronic signings is going way too far and is downright stupid.

I understand he had a right to do what he did, but I don't see how you can fault Devils fans for being a bit miffed at him for that.

I'm not "blaming" anyone. Nittel. I'm just trying to provide perspective.

A dubious departure from NJD....vs. a decade of superb play and three Stanley Cups.

Some fans just look at things differently. Personally, I'm rooting like anything for my team's ex-Captain (Peca) or ex-coach (Laviolette) to win the Cup this spring. For others, the second a guy changes unforms, all memory and appreciation for what he did prior is erased from memory, it appears. That's cool, just pointing it out.

Again, perspective.

I'm not "blaming" anyone. Nittel. I'm just trying to provide perspective.

A dubious departure from NJD....vs. a decade of superb play and three Stanley Cups.

Again, perspective.

Do you think that if they didn't have Neids those years that they wouldn't have won the Cups?

I can't say for sure, but I think it'd be a pretty interesting thing. Too bad we don't have simulators or time travel to go back and make that happen.

Scotty Nied-a-Brodeur to win the cup.

I don't like fans of other teams telling us how we should feel about Niedermayer.

He showed no loyalty at all in leaving, why should we now feel loyalty toward him? It's a two way street. I understand that he had every right to leave, but we also have every right to root against him for it.

And if you think that his actions had no influence on the Malakhov & McGillis contracts then you just weren't paying attention.

Do you think that if they didn't have Neids those years that they wouldn't have won the Cups?

I can't say for sure, but I think it'd be a pretty interesting thing. Too bad we don't have simulators or time travel to go back and make that happen.

Since you ask, no, I don't think they would have won three Cups.

He was a clear part of their core. His on-ice freedom was curtailed relative to the freelancing he is allowed now under Carlyle. But his impact, though more subtle in NJD, was huge. And it typically became even more apparent in the Devils' post-seasons, IMO.

Do you think that if they didn't have Neids those years that they wouldn't have won the Cups?

I can't say for sure, but I think it'd be a pretty interesting thing. Too bad we don't have simulators or time travel to go back and make that happen.

I think that Niedermayer never won a Conn Smythe, so he was certainly never the most important factor. I also think that Niedermayer was never the best defenseman on this team until 2003-2004, and we all saw how that went.

Great support guy/role player. Not a shred of leadership in his body.

Since you ask, no, I don't think they would have won three Cups.

He was a clear part of their core. His on-ice freedom was curtailed relative to the freelancing he is allowed now under Carlyle. But his impact, though more subtle in NJD, was huge. And it typically became even more apparent in the Devils' post-seasons, IMO.

In all 3 cup years it was Stevens shutting down the other teams top pairing, not Niedermayer. He also played very uninspired hockey for most of his tenure here. He only played to his potential in his (surprise) contract year

I think that Niedermayer never won a Conn Smythe, so he was certainly never the most important factor. I also think that Niedermayer was never the best defenseman on this team until 2003-2004, and we all saw how that went.

Great support guy/role player. Not a shred of leadership in his body.

Wow. I saw the team live win all three Cups or at least parts of the playoffs.

To say that about Neids is ridiculous and completely untrue.

How quick we forget.

Scotty Nied-a-Brodeur to win the cup.

I don't like fans of other teams telling us how we should feel about Niedermayer.

He showed no loyalty at all in leaving, why should we now feel loyalty toward him? It's a two way street. I understand that he had every right to leave, but we also have every right to root against him for it.

And if you think that his actions had no influence on the Malakhov & McGillis contracts then you just weren't paying attention.

Haha, so other people can't give their input? What is this, the Russian Communist Devils?

No one is saying that you shouldn't be angry with the way he left. So stop even talking about that. It's a non-issue here.

And you're just naive and using blind anger at the man if you think his departure had influence on your GM making any sort of signings -- both of which looked awful from the time they were made.

Wow. I saw the team live win all three Cups or at least parts of the playoffs.

To say that about Neids is ridiculous and completely untrue.

How quick we forget.

What, specifically, did I say that was untrue? Did Niedermayer win a conn smythe that I didn't know about? Was Scott Stevens not the best defenseman on the team?

What, specifically, did I say that was untrue? Did Niedermayer win a conn smythe that I didn't know about? Was Scott Stevens not the best defenseman on the team?

Who's denying that?

You're basically saying the guy played no part on the Cup winning teams, which is downright ABSURD!!

You're giving him zero credit where credit is due.

Give me a break. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

In all 3 cup years it was Stevens shutting down the other teams top pairing, not Niedermayer. He also played very uninspired hockey for most of his tenure here. He only played to his potential in his (surprise) contract year

I'm not going to get into an argument here. And you are sadly mistaken if you think anyone is telling "you" how to feel about Niedermayer; you may wish to re-read a bit more carefully.

Your quote above falls into the ever-popular HF mentality of "either/or":

"Stevens was more important...and Brodeur was more important than...and so on."

An objective point of view, one likely held prior to Niedermayer's departure by a majority of NJD fans (and likely still held by many to this day), is that they were each part of the core that enabled your team to win. I know of no one who would take Niedermayer over Stevens. But that misses the point entirely.

The funny thing is that for years here, some non-NJD geniuses used to talk about how overrated Niedermayer was because he didn't put up big numbers, entirely missing the value of his game. Now that he's gone, apparently a few Devils fans are drinking the revisionist Kool-Aid. Your perogative; again, no one is "telling" you anything. But hypocrisy duly noticed is a *****, ain't it?

Yep Niedermayer is just a support player, and not a leader. The Ducks improbable over-reaching run this season just proved it. :sarcasm:

Who's denying that?

You're basically saying the guy played no part on the Cup winning teams, which is downright ABSURD!!

You're giving him zero credit where credit is due.

Give me a break. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

lol, why don't you learn to read? I said he was never the most important factor.

lol, why don't you learn to read? I said he was never the most important factor.

Why don't you learn to give a guy some credit for being an integral component of 3 Cup winning teams?

:shakehead

I'm not going to get into an argument here. And you are sadly mistaken if you think anyone is telling "you" how to feel about Niedermayer; you may wish to re-read a bit more carefully.

Your quote above falls into the ever-popular HF mentality of "either/or":

Stevens was more important...and Brodeur was more important than Brodeur...and so on.

An objective point of view, one likley held prior to Niedermayer's departure by a majority of NJD fans (and likley held by many to this day), is that they were each part of the core that enabled your team to win. I know of no one who would take Niedermayer over Stevens. But that misses the point entirely.

The funny thing is that for years here, some non-NJD geniuses used to talk about how overrated Niedermayer was becaus ehe didn't put up big numbers. Now that he's gone, a apparently a few Devils fans are drinking the revisionist Kool-Aid. Your perogative; again, no one is "Telling" you anything. But hypocrisy noticed is a *****, ain't it?

Yep Niedermayer is just a support player, and not a leader. The Ducks improbably over-reaching run this season just proved it. :sarcasm:


My opinion is that the Western Conference was very weak, (3 division winners gone in the first round) look at Edmunton.

I do not deny Niedermayer's talent. He deserved his Norris in 2003-2004. Bobby Holik was also considered a core part of the team before he left, and look how much his departure hurt us.

There are, IMO, 3 major factors to our cups. In no order; Brodeur, Stevens, and the system. Niedermayer was important, but he was not on the level of those three things. He was similar to what Elias is now - very important and a tremendously important part of the team, but not the core. Losing Stevens - nothing hurt more than that. Losing Brodeur or our system would be similarly catastrophic. Losing Niedermayer hurt, but was not on that level. Brian Rafalski and Paul Martin have pretty much provided what he used to, no one has been able to step up and do what Niedermayer did.

As for leadership, what evidence do you have of Niedmayer ever leading a team? When Stevens went down in 2003, the team had no direction at all. Again, look what happened in 2004, Nidermayer couldn't hack it. The guy is just not a leader, not taking away from his talent or defensive/offensive abilities, but when we're talking about leading a hockey team, I see no evidence that Niedermayer has the goods.

Why don't you learn to give a guy some credit for being an integral component of 3 Cup winning teams?

:shakehead

Because he wasn't. He was a good hockey player that gave us good depth on our 2nd pairing, and he helped Colin White. That's it.

Because he wasn't. He was a good hockey player that gave us good depth on our 2nd pairing, and he helped Colin White. That's it.

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

When's the last time Niedermayer won a cup without Stevens in front of him and Brodeur behind him?

Oh yeah.

Pipe down clown.

I respect the opinion of a poster like Trots, but in this case I don't care what anyone thinks. In my eyes Niedermayer left the Devils hanging. He was never coming back and could have just told Lamoriello that he's going in another direction, then Lou might not have made the moves he did. I feel I owe Niedermayer absolutely nothing. He left and is now a duck, end of story. I was happy he didn't make it to the finals and if it was up to me, you will never see his jersey retired by the Devils.

i did not want to see Nieds win either, but i believe Blackjack is not giving nieds enough credit. the guy is a great player and was definitely one of the top 3 reasons we were as good as we were

When's the last time Niedermayer won a cup without Stevens in front of him and Brodeur behind him?

Oh yeah.

Pipe down clown.

When's the last time the Devils won a Cup without Niedermayer?

Oh yeah.

Stop flamming as well. It's getting tired. Why don't you stop acting like a child and talk civil?

As for leadership, what evidence do you have of Niedermayer ever leading a team?

Right in front our very noses, this season.

I, like others, thought Burke may have miscalculated and overpaid for Niedermayer. Turns out he was the best player, and the de facto leader of a very young team that most any objective observer would have agreed had no right getting to where they did this season, especially the playoffs.

How one can have watched these playoffs and suggested Niedermayer is not a leader is curious to me.

And again, to your and other's opinions on how he left NJD out to dry at the end: fair points, and I'm not arguing it, nor telling you how to feel. (And Brooklyn, the feeling is mutual; I respect the opinions of Devils fans - Heck, I was rooting for your team this post-season! And I'm certain Lou will not be hanging Nieds' number from the rafters! :D )

Where we disagree, respectfully, is in the role and value of the player to your franchise over the last decade+. It's a bit of a revisionist history to relegate Niedermayer, currently an annual Norris Trophy candidate, to "role player" on those superb Devils teams. That is, the "hate" for the manner of his exit is clouding the importance he played on your team, IMO. Role players, "depth 2nd pair dmen," simply do not get contracts the like that Burke, an astute GM, handed to him.

But let's leave it at that.

All this talk minimizing Niedermayer's importance is just sour grapes. In 03 I think he led the team in playoff points (he at least had twice as many as any other defenseman). I think we could have won in 95 without him but in 00 and 03 he was a very important piece of our championships. The reason that I hold some ill feelings towards Nieds is because he really showed no desire to play here. He was just hanging around until UFA showed up so he could bolt. Having two defensemen like Stevens and Daneyko show nothing but loyalty and giving everything to this team only served to highlight this failing in Niedermayer. He also had the ability to simply take over a game or a series and it didn't always look like he was giving it his all. He was very good when playing at 90%, he played like an all-star, but he had the skills to be a legend.

As much as I loved the guy, he was my favorite player for a good while, things were just never easy with him. He held out for nearly every contract, he turned down a great longterm deal and got a lesser one from arbitration after 04 and then he turned down a max contract to play with his brother. It's not like Lou wasn't trying to get Rob either, he tried to get him on more than one occasion. He was ready to give Scott the C and make him the new leader on the team. I just don't think he ever liked being a Devil so why should we still feel loyal to a guy that was never that loyal to us?

Right in front our very noses, this season.

I, like others, thought Burke may have miscalculated and overpaid for Niedermayer. turns out he was the best player, and the de facto leader of a very young team that most any objective observer would have agreed had no right getting to where they did this season, especially the playoffs.

How one can have watched these playoffs and suggested Niedermayer is not a leader is mind-boggling to me.

And again, to your and other's opinions on how he left NJD out to dry at the end: fair points, and I'm not arguing it, nor telling you how to feel. And Brooklyn, the feeling is mutual; I respect the opinions of Devils fans. (Heck, I was rooting for your team this post-season!) And I'm certain Lou will not be hanging Nieds' number from the rafters! :D

Where we disagree, respectfully, is in the role and value of the player to your franchise over the last decade+. It's a bit of a revisionist history to relegate Niedermayer, currently an annual Norris Trophy candidate, to "role player" on those superb Devils teams. That is, the "hate" for the manner of his exit is clouding the importance he played on your team, IMO. Role players, "depth 2nd pair dmen," simply do not get contracts the like that Burke, an astute GM, handed to him.

But let's leave it at that.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

How one can have watched these playoffs and suggested Niedermayer is not a leader is mind-boggling to me.
In '04 when Stevens went down there was a void in leadership and Scott did very little to fill it. He's done a great job in Anaheim this year, much better than I expected, but he's a leader when he feels like it instead of a born leader the likes of Stevens, Messier, Yzerman, Sakic, etc.

Edit: Plus this year I think the leadership of a guy like Selanne has been underrated. With the number of young forwards on that team that had career years I have to think Teemu had something to do with that.

In '04 when Stevens went down there was a void in leadership and Scott did very little to fill it. He's done a great job in Anaheim this year, much better than I expected, but he's a leader when he feels like it instead of a born leader the likes of Stevens, Messier, Yzerman, Sakic, etc.

Those are some of the greatest leaders in the HISTORY of the game, though. Scott is definately a leader on any team, but he's not in that category. But to say he isn't a leader is a bit ridiculous.

while we're all chiming in here:

neider was part of the core of Devils and was important to the team. while he was did not (and does not) possess stevens' leadership abilities, i don't hold that against him. Niedermayer played just as many minutes as stevens did. while we have one (and most likely 2) cups without him, i doubt we have all three. to say that the most he did was help colin white isn't fair. this guy was and is one of the top 3 defensemen in the league. he can control a game with his skating ability and i'd say that if he were still on this team, it is us playing buffalo and not carolina. what he brings (ability to break out of the zone, control the puck, negate other teams' speed) is what the devils were sorely lacking vs. the canes.

as for his departure, i don't believe that he knew all along what he was doing and held out to stick it to lou. i also don't think he was angling for more money, because he took LESS to go to anaheim. he was often quoted as saying that this was not an easy decision for him and his brother was the overriding factor to moving. a famous neider quote: "if it was only about winning, why would i have ever left Jersey?"

had lou known from the very start about neidermayer, PERHAPS he signs aucoin (who was hurt all season). but other than aucoin, what other defenseman would you have had him sign? gonchar? modry? not happening. malkhov was a TERRIBLE undefensable signing, but it was done for Larry. Vlad was not even going to play, but Larry convinced Lou he would be solid (as he was for Philly at the end of 2004). The only thing that someone could possibly convince me of is that had Lou known Neider would not resign, then MAYBE he could've swung the deal for Pronger (giving up White).

Those are some of the greatest leaders in the HISTORY of the game, though. Scott is definately a leader on any team, but he's not in that category. But to say he isn't a leader is a bit ridiculous.
I'm not saying he isn't a leader period, I'm just saying that his leadership abilities are pretty overrated. Check my edit on my last comment for some clarification. He's a fine leader but he's not the difference maker in that respect that everyone is claiming.

In '04 when Stevens went down there was a void in leadership and Scott did very little to fill it. He's done a great job in Anaheim this year, much better than I expected, but he's a leader when he feels like it instead of a born leader the likes of Stevens, Messier, Yzerman, Sakic, etc.

Edit: Plus this year I think the leadership of a guy like Selanne has been underrated. With the number of young forwards on that team that had career years I have to think Teemu had something to do with that.

You'll never read me comparing Niedermayer to any of those names in your top paragraph.

Likewise, who would argue that Selanne has provided superb leadership this year? It take more than a single player...On the Ducks in '06, on the Devils over the last decade. Stevens is the undisputed leader and one of the great leaders/dmen of all-time, period. That in no way diminishes Niedermayer's major contribution, as you know.

***

I'm just astounded how a few feel the need to diminish a guy's legacy, based on an unhappy ending, that's all.

I'm not saying he isn't a leader period, I'm just saying that his leadership abilities are pretty overrated. Check my edit on my last comment for some clarification. He's a fine leader but he's not the difference maker in that respect that everyone is claiming.

Difference maker in what? In his play he certainly is. He was fantastic in the Calgary series and also in the Colorado series. He played pretty well in the Edmonton series, but the team as a whole just didn't play that well.

and as for stevens being loyal, he tried to leave twice and didn't exactly take a hometown discount when he signed his last contract. he went to lou and said give me what MacInnis is making and Lou did.

while we're all chiming in here:

neider was part of the core of Devils and was important to the team. while he was did not (and does not) possess stevens' leadership abilities, i don't hold that against him. Niedermayer played just as many minutes as stevens did. while we have one (and most likely 2) cups without him, i doubt we have all three. to say that the most he did was help colin white isn't fair. this guy was and is one of the top 3 defensemen in the league. he can control a game with his skating ability and i'd say that if he were still on this team, it is us playing buffalo and not carolina. what he brings (ability to break out of the zone, control the puck, negate other teams' speed) is what the devils were sorely lacking vs. the canes.

as for his departure, i don't believe that he knew all along what he was doing and held out to stick it to lou. i also don't think he was angling for more money, because he took LESS to go to anaheim. he was often quoted as saying that this was not an easy decision for him and his brother was the overriding factor to moving. a famous neider quote: "if it was only about winning, why would i have ever left Jersey?"

had lou known from the very start about neidermayer, PERHAPS he signs aucoin (who was hurt all season). but other than aucoin, what other defenseman would you have had him sign? gonchar? modry? not happening. malkhov was a TERRIBLE undefensable signing, but it was done for Larry. Vlad was not even going to play, but Larry convinced Lou he would be solid (as he was for Philly at the end of 2004). The only thing that someone could possibly convince me of is that had Lou known Neider would not resign, then MAYBE he could've swung the deal for Pronger (giving up White).

Fantastic post :clap: :clap:

while we're all chiming in here:

neider was part of the core of Devils and was important to the team. while he was did not (and does not) possess stevens' leadership abilities, i don't hold that against him. Niedermayer played just as many minutes as stevens did. while we have one (and most likely 2) cups without him, i doubt we have all three. to say that the most he did was help colin white isn't fair. this guy was and is one of the top 3 defensemen in the league. he can control a game with his skating ability and i'd say that if he were still on this team, it is us playing buffalo and not carolina. what he brings (ability to break out of the zone, control the puck, negate other teams' speed) is what the devils were sorely lacking vs. the canes.

as for his departure, i don't believe that he knew all along what he was doing and held out to stick it to lou. i also don't think he was angling for more money, because he took LESS to go to anaheim. he was often quoted as saying that this was not an easy decision for him and his brother was the overriding factor to moving. a famous neider quote: "if it was only about winning, why would i have ever left Jersey?"

had lou known from the very start about neidermayer, PERHAPS he signs aucoin (who was hurt all season). but other than aucoin, what other defenseman would you have had him sign? gonchar? modry? not happening. malkhov was a TERRIBLE undefensable signing, but it was done for Larry. Vlad was not even going to play, but Larry convinced Lou he would be solid (as he was for Philly at the end of 2004). The only thing that someone could possibly convince me of is that had Lou known Neider would not resign, then MAYBE he could've swung the deal for Pronger (giving up White).

Maybe you're right. All I remember was Lou in his press conference; he looked shocked and totally disappointed. Plus, all those rumors about how he wanted to play in Vancouver or play with his brother doesn't help his cause with Devil fans, not that he cares any way. But then, why should we care about him any longer?

I have no ill will towards Neids but like the others have stated already i dont like how he left the team hanging and leaving last minute, leaving Lou with nothing but garbage to sign.

Difference maker in what? In his play he certainly is. He was fantastic in the Calgary series and also in the Colorado series. He played pretty well in the Edmonton series, but the team as a whole just didn't play that well.
I'm looking at play and leadership separately. I'll never say he isn't a difference maker in terms of play but in leadership I will. I just don't see him as the kind of guy who will spur his team on when their backs are against the wall. I think he makes a much better alternate captain than flat out captain.

I'm looking at play and leadership separately. I'll never say he isn't a difference maker in terms of play but in leadership I will. I just don't see him as the kind of guy who will spur his team on when their backs are against the wall. I think he makes a much better alternate captain than flat out captain.

I agree with you here completely.

Maybe you're right. All I remember was Lou in his press conference; he looked shocked and totally disappointed. Plus, all those rumors about how he wanted to play in Vancouver or play with his brother doesn't help his cause with Devil fans, not that he cares any way. But then, why should we care about him any longer?

lou being shocked furthers my point that neider didn't know he was leaving all along.

i'm fine with devils fans being mad/upset/disappointed that he left. you can add me to that group. that doesn't mean that i'll go back and say he wasn't that great. he was THAT great.

all this being said, i didn't want him (or the ducks) winning a cup. i'd like to think that we wouldn't have won without neider and HE wouldn't have won without the devils. and I don't ever want to see any team named "Mighty Ducks" on the greatest trophy in sports.

lou being shocked furthers my point that neider didn't know he was leaving all along.

i'm fine with devils fans being mad/upset/disappointed that he left. you can add me to that group. that doesn't mean that i'll go back and say he wasn't that great. he was THAT great.

all this being said, i didn't want him (or the ducks) winning a cup. i'd like to think that we wouldn't have won without neider and HE wouldn't have won without the devils. and I don't ever want to see any team named "Mighty Ducks" on the greatest trophy in sports.

Another great post.

You are the "Trottier" of the Devils! Hah! And that's a really good thing :)

As for leaving Lou with garbage to sign, that's overstated. It's not the players that were left, it was the leverage they were able to use against Lou that offseason. Everyone knew Lou had a big hole to fill and not much time to do it. This probably allowed guys like Malakhov and McGillis to squeeze more money out of Lou than they would have otherwise had he been shopping since the start of the free agency period. He didn't hurt us personnel wise as much as he hurt us capwise.

As for leaving Lou with garbage to sign, that's overstated. It's not the players that were left, it was the leverage they were able to use against Lou that offseason. Everyone knew Lou had a big hole to fill and not much time to do it. This probably allowed guys like Malakhov and McGillis to squeeze more money out of Lou than they would have otherwise had he been shopping since the start of the free agency period. He didn't hurt us personnel wise as much as he hurt us capwise.

I actually think that trading Gomez for a #1/2 defenseman would've been a good move to make in the beginning of the year for you guys. I might be in the minority in that, but you could've gotten a great d-man plus a solid center for him.

Or you could've picked up someone like Conroy for fairly cheap (late round pick or something) as well to man the center spot and have a solid defenseman in the back end.

I respect the opinion of a poster like TrotsYes. Usually his posts are of like the high quality of play Bryan Trottier brought to the NHL. Today, his posts are like Rocky Trottier in the NHL.

I actually think that trading Gomez for a #1/2 defenseman would've been a good move to make in the beginning of the year for you guys. I might be in the minority in that, but you could've gotten a great d-man plus a solid center for him.

Or you could've picked up someone like Conroy for fairly cheap (late round pick or something) as well to man the center spot and have a solid defenseman in the back end.
I don't think Gomez's stock was as high at the beginning of the season as it is now. Edit: I just wanted to point out that the asking price from Burke with regards to Rob N. was Gomez in '04 for reference. Plus with Elias out and starting the season with a rookie as our second line centerman it would have been difficult to justify parting with Gomez. He matured greatly this year, much more than we could have hoped for. He really corrected his biggest weaknesses throughout the year, he's no longer a defensive liability and he actually shoots the puck well. Before, you could even see it at the Olympics, on a 2 on 1 he was looking pass all the way, the goalie knew it, the defenseman knew it, Gomez knew it. Ever since Laperriere started working with him on his shot he became a much more dangerous player.

I'm thinking this year was a bit of an experiment, aside from Pronger and Niedermayer there were no true #1 defensemen available (if there were, remind me please it's been a while) Lou decided to try to go with six #3/#4 defensemen and see what happened. If you look at the teams left in the playoffs that strategy worked for Buffalo and Carolina along with a balanced group of forwards. At this point I think the whole NHL found out that balance will lead to success in the future, we just didn't have as much at forward as Carolina did.

Today, his posts are like Rocky Trottier in the NHL.

:biglaugh:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/players/data05/00005475.html

I have no resentment with Scott Neidermayer signing with Anaheim, he is a fantastic player and was crucial to NJ's success for 10 years, from 1993 through 2003.

My only qualm is that if he wasn't going to resign, he could have just signed with Anaheim from day 1 and that way NJ could go after free agents like, say, Adrian Aucoin instead of still trying to work with Neidermayer. But in no way do I state that Neidermayer is the reason the Devils got sandbagged with Malakhov and McGillis. It's a small qualm and I don't hate him for it. He's probably among the top 3 d-men the Devils have ever had.

lou being shocked furthers my point that neider didn't know he was leaving all along.

i'm fine with devils fans being mad/upset/disappointed that he left. you can add me to that group. that doesn't mean that i'll go back and say he wasn't that great. he was THAT great.

all this being said, i didn't want him (or the ducks) winning a cup. i'd like to think that we wouldn't have won without neider and HE wouldn't have won without the devils. and I don't ever want to see any team named "Mighty Ducks" on the greatest trophy in sports.

I hate to assume, but it can also mean that Scotts agent told Lou, offer him the max and he'll resign. I believe he wanted Vancouver, but they probably didn't have the cap room to sign him with their own free agents and all. He then was ready to re-sign with the Devils for the max, until Burke flys out to offer him and his brother deals. And that's another misconception, that Nieds took less money to sign to play with his brother. Wrong. What he got was his brother 2.5 million per 3 years in a cap world. I'll call Scott a great brother, but enough of this he took less money nonsense. I don't wish the guy any bad, I just believe he hurt the Devils in taking so long to decide.

I am happy Scott is out of the playoffs. However, I will always be grateful of his service to the Devils organization and fans. I will definitely cheer him when they announce his name when he plays his first game back in New Jersey. This guy was key to getting the organization to where it is today, so I totally respect him. I am upset he left but I understand why he did it. I can't blame him for the free agent signings of Malakhov and McGillis, I blame Lou for those.

I don't mind internal debate on Needmybrother (as if it will ever stop going in circles)...but to have fans from other teams come here and tell us what to feel is annoying as hell.

I don't mind internal debate on Needmybrother (as if it will ever stop going in circles)...but to have fans from other teams come here and tell us what to feel is annoying as hell.

May I suggest a remedial reading course?

Who is telling you "what to feeeeeeel," Sparky?

Or is it that you simply are not able to process dissenting points of view from anyone outside your own conmfort zone, your own MYOPIC COCOON of NJD fans? Does an opinion from a big bad "enemy" fan that does not align 100% with your own make you feeeeeeel uncomfortable?

Or perhaps you'd like to close up the door to your little private tree fort/NJD board and not allow any non-NJD fans in? Close the border so to speak?

Been enjoying banter with NJD fans for months/years, and I'd like to think the feeling is mutual. But then again, many mature, rational human beings are able to respectfully discuss dissenting points of view from a variety of people without feeeeeeling upset, threatened or hurt. :shakehead

May I suggest a remeidal reading course?

Who is telling you "what to feeeeeeel," Sparky?

Or is it that you simply are not able to process dissenting points of view from anyone outside your own conmfort zone, your own MYOPIC COCOON? Does an opinion from a big bad "enemy" fan that does not align 100% with your own make you feeeeeeel uncomfortable?

Or perhaps you'd like to close up the door to your little private tree fort/NJD board and not allow any non-NJD fans in? Close the border so to speak?

Been enjoying banter with NJD fans for months/years, and I'd like to think the feeling is mutual. But then again, many mature, rational human beings are able to respectfully discuss dissenting points of view from a variety of people without feeeeeeling upset, threatened or hurt. :shakehead


Do you feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel special up there on your high horse?

...the respect he gets is "he screwed us"? :biglaugh:

...

To wish him is ill now is one's pergoative, but painfully petty. And Niedermayer did not make the signings that followed him.

...

Man, are some fans ingrateful (and myopic).

Just my opinion.

These statements do not refer to Niedermayer or his importance to the team, but to NJ fans. There is clearly a difference, and we have every right to express our distaste at being talked down to in this way.

I actually think that trading Gomez for a #1/2 defenseman would've been a good move to make in the beginning of the year for you guys. I might be in the minority in that, but you could've gotten a great d-man plus a solid center for him.

Or you could've picked up someone like Conroy for fairly cheap (late round pick or something) as well to man the center spot and have a solid defenseman in the back end.

Gomez wouldn't have netted a #1 defensemen and we have plenty of #2s

kthanksbye

I actually think that trading Gomez for a #1/2 defenseman would've been a good move to make in the beginning of the year for you guys. I might be in the minority in that, but you could've gotten a great d-man plus a solid center for him.

Or you could've picked up someone like Conroy for fairly cheap (late round pick or something) as well to man the center spot and have a solid defenseman in the back end.


I'm sure the Kings were eager to get rid of a player that hadn't played a game for them.

Right in front our very noses, this season.

I, like others, thought Burke may have miscalculated and overpaid for Niedermayer. Turns out he was the best player, and the de facto leader of a very young team that most any objective observer would have agreed had no right getting to where they did this season, especially the playoffs.

How one can have watched these playoffs and suggested Niedermayer is not a leader is curious to me.

Honestly, I did not watch the Ducks at all this year, I was refering to his tenure on the Devils. If Niedermayer showed leadership on the Ducks, that's a fair point, but just realize that I'm as skeptical as a Canuk fan being told by a Panthers fan that Pavel Bure became an exceptional defensive forward. It's just not in his blood. I mean, look at his reason for signing with Anaheim. He's not a leader, he's a moma's boy.


Where we disagree, respectfully, is in the role and value of the player to your franchise over the last decade+. It's a bit of a revisionist history to relegate Niedermayer, currently an annual Norris Trophy candidate, to "role player" on those superb Devils teams. That is, the "hate" for the manner of his exit is clouding the importance he played on your team, IMO. Role players, "depth 2nd pair dmen," simply do not get contracts the like that Burke, an astute GM, handed to him.

But let's leave it at that.

But this is the real revisionist history. Niedermayer was not an exceptional defenseman most of the time he was here. He only became an exceptional defenseman from 2002-2004. Before that, he was a frustrating defenseman. Niedermayer had 12 seasons with the team. In those 12 seasons he scored 40 or less points 8 times. He repeatly acknowledged himself that he was too inconsistant.

Yes, currently he is an annual Norris candidate, but don't chide us because we remember how he really played in the NJ sweater.

Gomez wouldn't have netted a #1 defensemen and we have plenty of #2s

kthanksbye

Besides Rafalski, what #2s do you have!? I consider White a quality #3 and everyone else is a step below him. Martin and Hale certainly aren't #2 d-men. Neither are Matvichuk or Lukowich.

I think that Gomez, as a #1 center, can eitehr grab a VERY good #2 or a decent #1. Or at least a young guy with #1 capabilities. I'd certainly trade Staal for him if I was the GM of the Rangers.

I don't mind internal debate on Needmybrother (as if it will ever stop going in circles)...but to have fans from other teams come here and tell us what to feel is annoying as hell.

:cry:

It's a public message board.

Do you feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel special up there on your high horse?

He's right. Your post was ridiculous.

Besides Rafalski, what #2s do you have!? I consider White a quality #3 and everyone else is a step below him. Martin and Hale certainly aren't #2 d-men. Neither are Matvichuk or Lukowich.

White and Martin are easily #2 defensemen. Matvichuk is a borderline #2 - #3. Hale will be a legit #2 within a year or two.

I think that Gomez, as a #1 center, can eitehr grab a VERY good #2 or a decent #1. Or at least a young guy with #1 capabilities. I'd certainly trade Staal for him if I was the GM of the Rangers.

Marc Staal? The guy who was getting undressed in the AHL playoffs? You'd be willing to give him up for one of the best young playmakers in the game? Wow! :biglaugh:

Clearly no one would give up a #1 for Gomez, he's just not worth that. Heck, if Elias was under contract, I'd be willing to trade him for a #1 dman, by I don't even know if that would do it.

Man alive, are you going to keep posting like this? There's no sense even trying to talk to someone like you if you act like this all the time.

[QUOTE=Blackjack]White and Martin are easily #2 defensemen.QUOTE]

I would agree with that.

White would be a #2 on some teams, a #3 on others, maybe even a #4 on a team like Calgary. He happens to be a #2 with us, and he hasn't performed too poorly in that role.

Martin isn't a bona fide #2 yet, imo. He definitely will be, maybe by next season.

If I had to chart it out:
#1-Rafalski
#2.5-White
#3-Martin
#4-Matvichuk
#5-Hale
#5-Lukowich

Man alive, are you going to keep posting like this? There's no sense even trying to talk to someone like you if you act like this all the time.

No one's twisting your arm, Jon.

Man alive, are you going to keep posting like this? There's no sense even trying to talk to someone like you if you act like this all the time.

Where are you going with this? Act like what?

:cry:

It's a public message board.


Doesn't make it any less annoying for pretentious *******s to talk down to Devils fans.

Where are you going with this? Act like what?

Apparently there's some kind of major problem with me suggesting that White and Martin might be #2 defensemen, and not being willing to trade Gomez for Marc Staal.

Lol, what a clown.

He's right. Your post was ridiculous.


And his post was mature, elegant prose. :propeller


Tell me again how the Devils were supposed to get Conroy for a late pick before he played a game with his new club? Enlighten stupid old me.

Niedermayer was not an exceptional defenseman most of the time he was here.

Blackjack, we simply disagree, which is cool.


These statements do not refer to Niedermayer or his importance to the team, but to NJ fans. There is clearly a difference, and we have every right to express our distaste at being talked down to in this way.

I can see how the post of mine that you quoted could easily be interpreted as "talking down". As such, my apology is offered up.

nieder was a great defensemen for us for awhile, but he's not a dev anymore, i dont like non-devs getting their names on the stanley, end of story

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I know I've argued with Blackjack plenty about this. I did not want the Ducks winning this year but I don't hold Nieder any resentment.

Nieds served us great - he was an integral part in all 3 Cups, for people who think we would have won in '95 without him I would point out that A) Nieds was Stevens D partner that year and was integral in helping shut down the opponents top players and B) the tying goal in game 2 in Detroit in the finals - nuff said. And to be honest if he was not still recovering from the concussion he got from Domi's cheapshot, I think we would have won 4 but Nieds was not himself in that whole cup final and IMO if Nieds is playing his best we would have won.

I don't blame Nieds for going to play with his brother and I think fellow Devs fans are making things up in their head when they say he purposely held out until the end and knew exaclty what he was going to do all along, that is all just speculation. I honestly don't think he knew what he was doing and that's my own speculation but he even said the hardest thing to do was to call Lou and tell him. I don't think it was an easy decision for him at all.

Again as someone pointed out Stevens tried to leave also and was disappointed when the Devils matched the Blues offer and then after we won the first cup he realized his best chances to win were to stay in NJ so he did. Nieder never had the perspective of playing in another organization, if he had gone Stevens route and had success later in his career maybe he stays but he has only known Jersey and has had all the success you can ask for here. He knew nothing else and wanted a chance to play with his brother. I know Lou was trying to get Rob but you can't say in this new cap world that we ever would have been able to fit him in- Scott had a definite chance to play with Rob put in front of him and he went for it. I see nothing wrong with that and I will cheer to thank him if he comes back to the arena (given the new scheduling god knows when that could be!). I was glad the Ducks lost after we did but its really because I hate Giguere for winning the Conn Smythe over Nieder in 2003 but that's all whole other story.

I also made it clear that I hold nothing against NIeds decision and I have even gone as far as understanding how long it took to make his decision. It was not to screw over the Devils but rather to sort out what was best for himself. In the end playing with his brother and closer to family for less money was more important then winning and being the highest paid defenseman.

But I certainly am pleased the Ducks did not win the Cup. Mostly because of their name, but also because with every decision comes sacrifice. Niedermayer gave up his chance to win for a long time and possibly the rest of his career by moving on to the Ducks.

Blackjack, we simply disagree, which is cool.




I can see how the post of mine that you quoted could easily be interpreted as "talking down". As such, my apology is offered up.

You're a quality poster, and I respect your opinion even when I disagree. I hope you continue to post here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I know I've argued with Blackjack plenty about this. I did not want the Ducks winning this year but I don't hold Nieder any resentment.

Nieds served us great - he was an integral part in all 3 Cups, for people who think we would have won in '95 without him I would point out that A) Nieds was Stevens D partner that year and was integral in helping shut down the opponents top players and B) the tying goal in game 2 in Detroit in the finals - nuff said. And to be honest if he was not still recovering from the concussion he got from Domi's cheapshot, I think we would have won 4 but Nieds was not himself in that whole cup final and IMO if Nieds is playing his best we would have won.

I don't blame Nieds for going to play with his brother and I think fellow Devs fans are making things up in their head when they say he purposely held out until the end and knew exaclty what he was going to do all along, that is all just speculation. I honestly don't think he knew what he was doing and that's my own speculation but he even said the hardest thing to do was to call Lou and tell him. I don't think it was an easy decision for him at all.

Again as someone pointed out Stevens tried to leave also and was disappointed when the Devils matched the Blues offer and then after we won the first cup he realized his best chances to win were to stay in NJ so he did. Nieder never had the perspective of playing in another organization, if he had gone Stevens route and had success later in his career maybe he stays but he has only known Jersey and has had all the success you can ask for here. He knew nothing else and wanted a chance to play with his brother. I know Lou was trying to get Rob but you can't say in this new cap world that we ever would have been able to fit him in- Scott had a definite chance to play with Rob put in front of him and he went for it. I see nothing wrong with that and I will cheer to thank him if he comes back to the arena (given the new scheduling god knows when that could be!). I was glad the Ducks lost after we did but its really because I hate Giguere for winning the Conn Smythe over Nieder in 2003 but that's all whole other story.

I'm just curious about one thing. Why is ok to boo Bobby Holik and enjoy his failures, and not Niedermayer? What did Holik do that Niedermayer didn't?

Also, as for the Stevens thing: Scott Stevens signed with St. Louis because that's where he wanted to play, that's where he wanted to live, and that's where he wanted to raise his family. He was awarded to us. 3 years later he wanted to go back to St. Louis as a free agent. I can't fault him for that. The fact of the matter is that he re-upped at the end of the day.

I'm just curious about one thing. Why is ok to boo Bobby Holik and enjoy his failures, and not Niedermayer? What did Holik do that Niedermayer didn't?

Also, as for the Stevens thing: Scott Stevens signed with St. Louis because that's where he wanted to play, that's where he wanted to live, and that's where he wanted to raise his family. He was awarded to us. 3 years later he wanted to go back to St. Louis as a free agent. I can't fault him for that. The fact of the matter is that he re-upped at the end of the day.

holik whined and complained that the devils had no respect for him after he lost in arbitration, and then jumped ship to our biggest rivals for more money than we offered to basically show us what he could do to us and without us.
Nieds took less money from the Ducks to play with his brother. If you can't see the difference there I can't help you.

And the bottom line is Stevens did not want to come here and tried to leave and was forced to stay. Was it ok for him to want to go to St louis for his family but not Niedermayer?

you guys seriously need to get over this stuff, you all act like scotty was the only player to do this? all players in the caliber of neids eventully come to the conclusion that they have done all they can do for a team and move on, its no fun playing if theres no exitment anymore, scotty had nothing left to prove in nj, look
at fedorov did it all in detriot and moved on, kariya did it with the ducks (his was a little different) wayne did it with the oilers. unless a guy just becomes so apart of the city that its almost impossiple to leave or they are afffaid they wont be able to have the same success elsewere.

My opinion is that the Western Conference was very weak, (3 division winners gone in the first round) look at Edmunton.

I do not deny Niedermayer's talent. He deserved his Norris in 2003-2004. Bobby Holik was also considered a core part of the team before he left, and look how much his departure hurt us.

There are, IMO, 3 major factors to our cups. In no order; Brodeur, Stevens, and the system. Niedermayer was important, but he was not on the level of those three things. He was similar to what Elias is now - very important and a tremendously important part of the team, but not the core. Losing Stevens - nothing hurt more than that. Losing Brodeur or our system would be similarly catastrophic. Losing Niedermayer hurt, but was not on that level. Brian Rafalski and Paul Martin have pretty much provided what he used to, no one has been able to step up and do what Niedermayer did.

As for leadership, what evidence do you have of Niedmayer ever leading a team? When Stevens went down in 2003, the team had no direction at all. Again, look what happened in 2004, Nidermayer couldn't hack it. The guy is just not a leader, not taking away from his talent or defensive/offensive abilities, but when we're talking about leading a hockey team, I see no evidence that Niedermayer has the goods.

What about EdmOnton exactly? We are in the toughest division in the league and took out the President Trophy winner. The West is weak? The East features Washington, Florida, Pitts, the NYI...

When you're NJ and you face the likes of the Isles and Pitts 8 times a year its a lot easier than facing Vacouver, Minnesota 8 times (speaking about non-playoff teams).

Gimme a break.

When's the last time Niedermayer won a cup without Stevens in front of him and Brodeur behind him?

Oh yeah.

Pipe down clown.

Yeah - when did Gretz win without Messier behind him?

So Gretz is another Nieds?

Scotty had and still does have a lot to prove to NJ fans. He is a great player but he always ALWAYS left the impression that there was something left in the tank at the end of the game. I think as a player, even in a bush league, you want to leave the impression that you gave it your all every god forsaken night even if you stunk. This is why I love Sarge, because he gives it his all every single night. You want to talk about someone who had, "nothing left to prove," look at someone like Dano who gave everything he had in his soul every single shift. Don't mention Nieder and "nothing left to prove" in the same conversation. He could have been a legend.

A guy plays a major role in helping your franchise win three Stanley Cups...and the respect he gets is "he screwed us"? :biglaugh:

He was a free agent. Free to choose his destination, when he wanted to. He owed NJD and you nothing. He gave you a GREAT 10+ years.

To wish him is ill now is one's pergoative, but painfully petty. And Niedermayer did not make the signings that followed him.

Guess if Elias happens to sign a deal elsewhere, he'll suddenly be a bum, too.

Man, are some fans ingrateful (and myopic).

Just my opinion.

Trottier, this happens with every player who has left the Devils. Bruce Driver, Bobby Holik, Scotty Niedermayer, John MacLean and it'll happen to Patrik too. It's really a damn shame too because all those guys contributed something significant to the franchise. I'd also like to state that there weren't any good defensman available in free agency last year. Pronger was a trade and we would have had to trade Martin and some other prospects just to get him. Adam Foote isn't that great, and Adrian Aucoin ya, he's a gem injured all the time. In the long run not worth it, not like there were Charas and Reddens and McCabes available to fill the void. Stop being such children.

When you're NJ and you face the likes of the Isles and Pitts 8 times a year its a lot easier than facing Vacouver, Minnesota 8 times (speaking about non-playoff teams).

Gimme a break.

You might want to check our record against those teams before you use that argument. ;)

Besides Rafalski, what #2s do you have!? I consider White a quality #3 and everyone else is a step below him. Martin and Hale certainly aren't #2 d-men. Neither are Matvichuk or Lukowich.




Seriously, if you don't think Paul Martin is #2 Quality right now, you haven't watched him enough this season.

Remember Paul is only a second year Pro and he has been one of the Devils best defenders all year. And I personally feel we haven't seen half of his offensive capabilities yet. But we have seen flashes. The progression from his rookie season to his sophmore has been excellent and I think we will continue to see progression in his overall game.

2003-04 NJ 70 6 18 24 +12
2005-06 NJ 80 5 32 37 +1


Hale, the jury is still out. But after only 103 NHL games playing totally on the 3rd pairing with partners like Sean Brown and Tommy Albelin, I'm am willing to give him some more time. But I think his potential is top 3 in a Jason Smith type of D-man.

I used to be upset about Scotty leaving, but I'm way past that now, as far what he meant to this team, I will just simply say if he was still on the team now, it could very be us in the finals right now and not the 'Canes.

That's how good he is and what he meant to the Devils.

I think Lou should have realized that paying a third of the payroll to two Niedermayers wasn't something he was willing to do and moved on, rather than holding out hope that Scott would stay.

As for Nieds himself, he was always flaky and I agree he is not really a leader.

That said, it baffles me that Devils fans can watch this guy play every day for a decade and not realize his value.

For the last two seasons he was with the team, he was the best player in the NHL.

He was irreplaceable, he won the Norris and was paid the very maximum a player could be paid.

Anyone who says this guy was a #2 or #3 defenseman or a lackey for Stevens and Brodeur is revising history.

If good hockey fans want to come here and debate, that's a good thing, not a detriment.

Especially when they make sense.

wow I really started something here eh, I love it. I love the debate and I love conversation. Keep it up.

holik whined and complained that the devils had no respect for him after he lost in arbitration, and then jumped ship to our biggest rivals for more money than we offered to basically show us what he could do to us and without us.
Nieds took less money from the Ducks to play with his brother. If you can't see the difference there I can't help you.

Niedermayer always had problems at contract time as well. Maybe he didn't complain as much as Holik, but he also wasn't as vocal in general. I don't have a problem with Nidermayer leaving as much as it was the way he left; he strung us along pretending that we had the inside track on signing him. If a max contract wasn't enough, we obviously had no shot at signing him. At least Holik made no bones about the fact that NJ would get no hometown discount; much like Elias is doing now.

And the bottom line is Stevens did not want to come here and tried to leave and was forced to stay. Was it ok for him to want to go to St louis for his family but not Niedermayer?

Stevens came here against his will in the first place. In fact, I'm impressed that he eventually adopted NJ as his some.

What about EdmOnton exactly? We are in the toughest division in the league and took out the President Trophy winner. The West is weak? The East features Washington, Florida, Pitts, the NYI...

When you're NJ and you face the likes of the Isles and Pitts 8 times a year its a lot easier than facing Vacouver, Minnesota 8 times (speaking about non-playoff teams).

Gimme a break.

Relax, I'm rooting for Edmunton to win the cup. But when the #8 seed handily defeats the #1 seed (in fact, the 5 - 8 seeds all won their conference quarterfinal series') it's the sign of a weak division.

Niedermayer always had problems at contract time as well. Maybe he didn't complain as much as Holik, but he also wasn't as vocal in general. I don't have a problem with Nidermayer leaving as much as it was the way he left; he strung us along pretending that we had the inside track on signing him. If a max contract wasn't enough, we obviously had no shot at signing him. At least Holik made no bones about the fact that NJ would get no hometown discount; much like Elias is doing now.



Stevens came here against his will in the first place. In fact, I'm impressed that he eventually adopted NJ as his some.

Niedermayer did not know NJ would offer him max salary.

Yeah - when did Gretz win without Messier behind him?

So Gretz is another Nieds?

Are you really comparing Scott Niedermayer to Wayne Gretzky? :biglaugh:

Niedermayer did not know NJ would offer him max salary.

What does that have to do with anything? If he didn't sign for the max, what are the odds he would've signed for any lesser amount?

Put me in the not-bearing-Nieds-ill-will category.

Would you want to change your job after 13 years? Probably. You might want to see if you could do the same thing or better in a different set of circumstances.

His circumstances allowed him to play with his brother, which while it creates its own set of humor, is something he wanted to do. Too bad he got 90 percent of the family hockey talent.

I miss him, I still like him, even if I'm not looking forward to ever seeing him hoist the Cup with another team and I'm certainly glad we don't play the Duckies that much. I appreciate his long and eventful tenure with us and he'll remain one of my fave Devils in the long run.

I'm glad Mother Niedermayer won't be enjoying her boys in the Stanley Cup Finals this year.

I used to be upset about Scotty leaving, but I'm way past that now, as far what he meant to this team, I will just simply say if he was still on the team now, it could very be us in the finals right now and not the 'Canes.

That's how good he is and what he meant to the Devils.He wasn't that good against the 'Canes in 2002, nor was he that good against the Flyers in 2004. Niedermayer is capable of poor play. He's not Bobby Orr.

I do agree with you that he is a tremendous player. He certainly could have won the Conn Smythe in 2003, and he was a major reason for the Los Angeles Ducks of Anaheim's success this year.

If Scott Niedermayer wins the Norris Trophy for the next five years, I don't really care. I only hope he never wins the Stanley Cup again.
Relax, I'm rooting for Edmunton to win the cup. But when the #8 seed handily defeats the #1 seed (in fact, the 5 - 8 seeds all won their conference quarterfinal series') it's the sign of a weak division.It could also show the parity in the Western Conference.

Put me in the not-bearing-Nieds-ill-will category."I'm a Niedermayer well-wisher, in that I don't wish him any specific harm."

"I'm a Niedermayer well-wisher, in that I don't wish him any specific harm."

Great quote, Moe. :biglaugh:

But seriously... I never understand this debate.

Neids is one of the best defensemen of the past 25 years. First ballot HOF'er. Loved the years he spent with my Devils. Glad I got to watch him every game for more than a decade. Sad to see him leave... but will always love and appreciate Neids. Wouldn't have minded seeing him win another cup this season. Not next year though. :)

Great quote, Moe. :biglaugh:

But seriously... I never understand this debate.

Neids is one of the best defensemen of the past 25 years. First ballot HOF'er. Loved the years he spent with my Devils. Glad I got to watch him every game for more than a decade. Sad to see him leave... but will always love and appreciate Neids. Wouldn't have minded seeing him win another cup this season. Not next year though. :)

I understand the debate. People's reactions are their reactions. If they're pissed, he left, they're pissed. You're not pissed, so it's not your reaction. I'm not pissed, it's not mine.
But anyone's gut reaction is valid. Unless it's to punch him in the gut or something.

I just wish he'd get a haircut.

Great quote, Moe. :biglaugh:
This is for you then:

This is for you then:
I love the picture of Lou in the corner.
:biglaugh:

<(-:**

I am going to slant this subject slightly because it is an opinion of mine.

I think Scott Niedermayer will actually play for the Devils again!!! Maybe not during the length of his contract with Anaheim but I feel the ONLY other team Nieds would consider playing for besides the Ducks and with his brother is the Devils.

Rob NIedermayer will retire before Scott and after his contract is up I think he will finish his career with NJ. It really makes sense. So before anybody continues to show hatred towards him they need to consider that the only underlying factor that #27 is not with the devils currently is for family reasons and he could come back.
Nobody will deny he has fond memories of his career and success with NJ.

I think Scott Niedermayer will actually play for the Devils again!!! Maybe not during the length of his contract with Anaheim but I feel the ONLY other team Nieds would consider playing for besides the Ducks and with his brother is the Devils.
...So before anybody continues to show hatred towards him they need to consider that...he could come back.
Yeah, I was thinking that, too...
It would be like Clemens going back to the Yankees when they play in Houston.
When the Ducks play in New Jersey, the crowd should give a standing ovation to Scott when his name is announced, then boo the ever-loving (expletive deleted) out of him whenever he touched the puck; just to let him know that we still appreciate his contributions to the Devils.

}:-)>

I would hate him as well if I was you guys ! I highly doubt you would have won the 2nd round with him anyways. Here's to the ducks never winning a cup :yo: ;)

I would hate him as well if I was you guys ! I highly doubt you would have won the 2nd round with him anyways. Here's to the ducks never winning a cup :yo: ;)

You highly doubt based on what? You can never tell who will or will not make or break chemistry. Since we had only one defenseman we could count on power playwise, I think we woulda preferred to have gone with him.

And esp. if it woulda kept the Lukowiches off the ice with under a minute left in the game and a lead. It's a different series just based on three seconds.

And esp. if it woulda kept the Lukowiches off the ice with under a minute left in the game and a lead. It's a different series just based on three seconds.

Truer words were never spoken.

This is for you then:


:biglaugh: That's awesome. So is the new avatar. :handclap:

Are you really comparing Scott Niedermayer to Wayne Gretzky? :biglaugh:

No.. and that's my point.

Someone said Scotty never won without Stevens and Brodeur.

Well Gretz never won without Kurri and Messier.

Point being - that doesn't mean squat. Gretzky still won the big one, as did Scotty. Maybe Mess wouldn't have 6 rings if it wasn't for Gretz, or Marty wouldn't have 3 if it wasn't for Scotty. It's all conjecture. But to say Scotty relied on others to get him his rings is ridiculous. Bottom line - they won with him. It's a team game.

You might want to check our record against those teams before you use that argument. ;)

lol - ok - those teams -should- be easier.. ;)

why arent you guys mad at ROB Niedermayer?

he was the only reason why Scott signed with the ducks, so be pissed at him.

as for leadership, he is the best leader the ducks have ever had. He made everyone on his lines and the team play better and made them better players.

Andy McDonalds carrer high in points before this season was 30, this season he had 85 because of Nieds.

Teemu Selanne might get the Masterton award after scoring 90 points this season, after looking like he was going to retire, because of Nieds.

Francois Beauchemin was a throwin in a trade for Fedorov and became the 5th leading scorer for rookie defencemen, a physical force, with great defence because of Nieds.

Chris Kunitz was cut by TWO teams this season and picked up on waivers to become the highest rookie goal scorer in Mighty Ducks history because of Nieds.

and thats just the first line...

not to mention hes a phenominal player.

why arent you guys mad at ROB Niedermayer?

he was the only reason why Scott signed with the ducks, so be pissed at him.

as for leadership, he is the best leader the ducks have ever had. He made everyone on his lines and the team play better and made them better players.

Andy McDonalds carrer high in points before this season was 30, this season he had 85 because of Nieds.

Teemu Selanne might get the Masterton award after scoring 90 points this season, after looking like he was going to retire, because of Nieds.

Francois Beauchemin was a throwin in a trade for Fedorov and became the 5th leading scorer for rookie defencemen, a physical force, with great defence because of Nieds.

Chris Kunitz was cut by TWO teams this season and picked up on waivers to become the highest rookie goal scorer in Mighty Ducks history because of Nieds.

and thats just the first line...

not to mention hes a phenominal player.


And he turned the team's gatorade into wine!

Hey, us folks in Duckland were happy we could take that miserable son-of-a-***** off your hands. Any other grenades that need jumping on?

You highly doubt based on what? You can never tell who will or will not make or break chemistry. Since we had only one defenseman we could count on power playwise, I think we woulda preferred to have gone with him.

And esp. if it woulda kept the Lukowiches off the ice with under a minute left in the game and a lead. It's a different series just based on three seconds.

Even if we would have won that game, I believe we still lose the series. Watching Caroline against Buffalo, I now realize that I underestimated them big time.

why arent you guys mad at ROB Niedermayer?

he was the only reason why Scott signed with the ducks, so be pissed at him.

as for leadership, he is the best leader the ducks have ever had. He made everyone on his lines and the team play better and made them better players.

Andy McDonalds carrer high in points before this season was 30, this season he had 85 because of Nieds.

Teemu Selanne might get the Masterton award after scoring 90 points this season, after looking like he was going to retire, because of Nieds.

Francois Beauchemin was a throwin in a trade for Fedorov and became the 5th leading scorer for rookie defencemen, a physical force, with great defence because of Nieds.

Chris Kunitz was cut by TWO teams this season and picked up on waivers to become the highest rookie goal scorer in Mighty Ducks history because of Nieds.

and thats just the first line...

not to mention hes a phenominal player.

Buddy gives a break.... The wounds are still fresh. By next season Devil fans will be over it.

Hey, us folks in Duckland were happy we could take that miserable son-of-a-***** off your hands. Any other grenades that need jumping on?

No, that's cool man. You guys keep winning the battles and we'll keep winning the wars. Boy, that Conn Smythe from 2003 must be sweet, but how do you sip chamagne from it? :dunno:

No.. and that's my point.

Someone said Scotty never won without Stevens and Brodeur.

Well Gretz never won without Kurri and Messier.

Point being - that doesn't mean squat. Gretzky still won the big one, as did Scotty. Maybe Mess wouldn't have 6 rings if it wasn't for Gretz, or Marty wouldn't have 3 if it wasn't for Scotty. It's all conjecture. But to say Scotty relied on others to get him his rings is ridiculous. Bottom line - they won with him. It's a team game.

That was in response to the suggestion that we can't win without Niedermayer. Both points are, I suppose, equally worthless.

Niedermayer was like a woman that walked out on the Devils fans. Were the Devils fans ever abusive to Niedermayer? No, they were not. Nevertheless, he walked out on us.

It's only natural that many Devils fans would bare resentment towards the ex-Devil. He was drafted by the team and played 13 seasons at the Meadowlands.

Niedermayer was like a woman that walked out on the Devils fans. Were the Devils fans ever abusive to Niedermayer? No, they were not. Nevertheless, he walked out on us.

It's only natural that many Devils fans would bare resentment towards the ex-Devil. He was drafted by the team and played 13 seasons at the Meadowlands.


And then you have some acquaintance call you repeatedly to tell you how great she was. :help:

And then you have some acquaintance call you repeatedly to tell you how great she was. :help:Precisely.

Why are you guys hating on Neidermayer? Just because he signed to play with his brother? Neidermayer was an amazing defenseman for you for a decade. This is why Devils fans are so unlikeable.

I don't get the hate towards Nieds. Its not like he went to the Rangers or Philly. Nieds gave us some awesome years. He made his choice, family. I have nothing against him. Lou F-ed up by waiting so long for him. It looks like the whole world but Lou knew Nieds was gone.

Why are you guys hating on Neidermayer?

:biglaugh: Are you into gansta rap or something? Let me see if I can communicate this...

We be hatin on Nieds cause he dissed us. So don't be frontin.

Hey, us folks in Duckland were happy we could take that miserable son-of-a-***** off your hands. Any other grenades that need jumping on?
Viktor Kozlov.

I have no malice for Scott Neidermayer. His skill on the blueline is among the best and he was crucial in NJ winning 3 Stanley Cups (and probably 4 if Tie Domi wasn't an evil goon). A bit dissapointed he didn't leave right away, but what can you do?

Hey, us folks in Duckland were happy we could take that miserable son-of-a-***** off your hands. Any other grenades that need jumping on?
Viktor Kozlov.

Boooo, you beat me to it. ;)

I just want to make it clear that I never said I hated him, I'm just mad he took the time to make the dissision, from reports I heard during the playoff's, he had no real intention of comming back, so by him taking his time he forced lou to spend and fill holes with what garbage was left at the garage sale, he basically showed up looking for treasure at 11:00am when all the other gm's where at the sale at 8.

:biglaugh: Are you into gansta rap or something? Let me see if I can communicate this...

We be hatin on Nieds cause he dissed us. So don't be frontin.
Whatever you say, Tupac :biglaugh:

I think non-Devil fans coming to this board have to realize the frustration over this situation. Not just Niedermayer, but the whole season. The Stevens retirement, the loss of Niederamyer, the uncertain coaching situation, Elias' health issues. Devils fans have actually stayed pretty calm and handled things pretty well, all things consindered.

I think A lot of Devils Fans are feeling a little snake bitten over this season and that has lead to the frustration; Niedermayer is an easy target of the frustration.

Think about it non-Devil fans, Try to be unbiased:

If this season starts for the Devils with 1. A healthy Elias, 2. Scott Niedermayer and 3. a stable Coach from the begining of the season; How does the picture Change? It changes dramatically!

In my opinion, the picture would changes so much that the entire alignment of the Eastern Conf. would be different this season.

These things all hitting the team at once moved them from an elite team to a middle to lower of the pack playoff team. The "If" is the most frustrating thing to deal with as a fan.

Niedermayer gave up his chance to win for a long time and possibly the rest of his career by moving on to the Ducks.

:sarcasm:

:sarcasm:


So far the quote is 100% right on the money...... :sarcasm:

So far the quote is 100% right on the money...... :sarcasm:

He has some time left in this league. WCF in his 1st year with a team full of kids is a decent start. PS: You need to update your avatar with a shot of the RBC center....road to victory goes through there now. Contemporize.

He has some time left in this league. WCF in his 1st year with a team full of kids is a decent start. PS: You need to update your avatar with a shot of the RBC center....road to victory goes through there now. Contemporize.

Niedermayer is good enough to take over a game and he can skate end to end more smoothely then anyone I have seen in this era. He is good enough to help a team win a playoff series. He did not successfully fill the role we needed him to against Philly as team Captain in 03, and with the Devils he had Brodeur, a team that would always be stable if not above averaged defensively and a GM who whatever he touches turns to magic.

Francois Beauchemin and Teemu Selanne and Andy McDonald were as essentail to the the Ducks success this season as Niedermayer was if not more from what I saw.

Francois Beauchemin and Teemu Selanne and Andy McDonald were as essentail to the the Ducks success this season as Niedermayer was if not more from what I saw.

coincidence?

He has some time left in this league. WCF in his 1st year with a team full of kids is a decent start. PS: You need to update your avatar with a shot of the RBC center....road to victory goes through there now. Contemporize.Teemu's a kid? :sarcasm:

It is highly unlikely that Niedermayer will win a Stanley Cup Championship with the Los Angeles Ducks of Anaheim. Brian Burke's MO is to get a team to be pretty good, but unable to get over the hump. If he trades Giggy and brings in Dan Cloutier, you should be very concerned.

One thing I'll say is..........

No Team is exclude from a Cup in this NHL.....In the Age of the 27 yearold Unrestricted Free Agent and a salary Cap ANY Team that is just a couple of pieces away will have the opportunity to add those pieces.

We are coming into an age of parity that the NHL has never seen before.

Anaheim is in position to be a very good team in the next few years. They have strong core of young players....They have a slew of AHL defensemen that they will be able to move to address future needs.

Again In this NHL no team is excluded from Winning. Teams with a good core, the ability to draft well and make timely moves to fill their needs will be successful.

Teemu's a kid? :sarcasm:

It is highly unlikely that Niedermayer will win a Stanley Cup Championship with the Los Angeles Ducks of Anaheim. Brian Burke's MO is to get a team to be pretty good, but unable to get over the hump. If he trades Giggy and brings in Dan Cloutier, you should be very concerned.

He's playing like one...but I was more referring to Beauchemin, Lupul, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, Bryzgalov, Kunitz, etc and yes I would be concerned if he traded Giguere and brought in Dan Cloutier...much like I would be concerned if any GM traded a better goaltender for a worse one. Fortunately unlike Bobby Clarke I think Burke has learned his lesson about the importance of goaltending, especially in this era. Time will tell...WCF with the deepest prospect pool in hockey is a decent sunny outlook.

Good post JimEIV, I understand the hatred of Niedermayer from a Devils fan perspective...I really do...what I don't understand is the baseless bashing of the team he ended up with, especially one that is well set up to win in the near future on a site called Hockey's Future. I guess as someone mentioned earlier, give it a year and things will settle down. I respect the Devils organization from the top down and have for many years now, I'm surprised that even with the unexpected success Anaheim had this year, the cutting of ties with Disney and the logo, the new ownership, solid GM and exciting young players that the feeling is still not mutual.

He's playing like one...but I was more referring to Beauchemin, Lupul, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, Bryzgalov, Kunitz, etc and yes I would be concerned if he traded Giguere and brought in Dan Cloutier...much like I would be concerned if any GM traded a better goaltender for a worse one. Fortunately unlike Bobby Clarke I think Burke has learned his lesson about the importance of goaltending, especially in this era. Time will tell...WCF with the deepest prospect pool in hockey is a decent sunny outlook.


But will Niedermayer be able to reap the benefits of the deep prospect pool? He is 33 years old and many of your prospect are 3 to 5 years away from reaching their full NHL potential.

By no means am I saying Scott is old. I'm saying he is older than your prospects maturation curve though.

Timing is not the greatest. Only time will tell, but time isn't on Niedermayer's side anymore.

But will Niedermayer be able to reap the benefits of the deep prospect pool? He is 33 years old and many of your prospect are 3 to 5 years away from reaching their full NHL potential.

By no means am I saying Scott is old. I'm saying he is older than your prospects maturation curve though.

Timing is not the greatest. Only time will tell, but time isn't on Niedermayer's side anymore.

Agreed but he came back playing so well after the surgery midseason which would lead one to think that he is taking care of himself very well. What might help him is the fact that he has speed to spare and such a great understanding of the game so when he loses a step he should still be quick enough to play a solid all around game. I have a feeling his contract will expire before you see him lose a step though.

I understand the hatred of Niedermayer from a Devils fan perspective...I really do...what I don't understand is the baseless bashing of the team he ended up with, especially one that is well set up to win in the near future on a site called Hockey's Future. I guess as someone mentioned earlier, give it a year and things will settle down. I respect the Devils organization from the top down and have for many years now, I'm surprised that even with the unexpected success Anaheim had this year, the cutting of ties with Disney and the logo, the new ownership, solid GM and exciting young players that the feeling is still not mutual.


Scott Niedermayer was the Heir Apparent to the Scott Stevens Reign.

His departure could not come at a worse time for New Jersey.....The Line Of succession looked perfect.

New Jersey was turning over the Keys to the Kingdom to him.......But he chose the Magic Kingdom instead.

Its like your girlfriend leaving you from another guy..........You hate the Dude by Default without even knowing him.

Scott Niedermayer was the Heir Apparent to the Scott Stevens Reign.

His departure could not come at a worse time for New Jersey.....The Line Of succession looked perfect.

New Jersey was turning over the Keys to the Kingdom to him.......But he chose the Magic Kingdom instead.

Its like your girlfriend leaving you from another guy..........You hate the Dude by Default without even knowing him.

Meh...if she's hot and not happy with the current guy you can't blame the new dude for giving it his best shot I guess. Besides by all the talk after the whole thing happened...you would think that the old guy banged her repeatedly and was still not happy with her performance the entire time. This whole thing just got weird. You in work today?

Meh...if she's hot and not happy with the current guy you can't blame the new dude for giving it his best shot I guess. This whole thing just got weird. You in work today?

I like weird very much.

:snide: :banana:

Meh...if she's hot and not happy with the current guy you can't blame the new dude for giving it his best shot I guess. Besides by all the talk after the whole thing happened...you would think that the old guy banged her repeatedly and was still not happy with her performance the entire time. This whole thing just got weird. You in work today?
With Elias we were 19 over .500.....without we were pretty much .500. As good as Niedermayer was....he would take games off. That would frustrate Lou more than all the holdouts. I was glad to see him go....there is no way on this god's green earth that he should have a Norris and Stevens doesn't....but I digress. Elias to me is more of a hurt losing....than Niedermayer.

Its like your girlfriend leaving you from another guy..........You hate the Dude by Default without even knowing him.But you hate her, Scott Niedermayer, even more.

With Elias we were 19 over .500.....without we were pretty much .500. As good as Niedermayer was....he would take games off. That would frustrate Lou more than all the holdouts. I was glad to see him go....there is no way on this god's green earth that he should have a Norris and Stevens doesn't....but I digress. Elias to me is more of a hurt losing....than Niedermayer.There was a reason that Patrick Elias was the third highest paid player on the Devils behind Martin Brodeur and Scott Stevens.

Agreed but he came back playing so well after the surgery midseason which would lead one to think that he is taking care of himself very well. What might help him is the fact that he has speed to spare and such a great understanding of the game so when he loses a step he should still be quick enough to play a solid all around game. I have a feeling his contract will expire before you see him lose a step though.I agree with you about Scott Niedermayer. He is well conditioned and likely will be so as he approaches 40.