The official Sign Konopka and O'Brien thread!!

Both are NHL ready and it would suck losing these 2

If we lose either of those I'm gonna get maaad! :rant: :madfire:

Alright you guys already know how I feel about these two guys. I really like Z though, I think he's Dan Bylsma with an edge, but let's look at this thing realistically. Of all our forwards we have two of them that are UFA's, Teemu and Friesen. Now we all know Teemu isn't going anywhere but Friesen will more than likely be gone. Now that leaves just one vacancy at the forward position and do you think Burke is really going to forego signing a FA so Konopka can have a roster spot? Me might have room for him as a reserve on the team but I honestly think he'll go elsewhere because he IS NHL ready but doesn't have a place on this team.

I don't feel like going on about OB because we have argued that to death but the bottomline is we played a lot of rookies this year but this team knows it's path now and this squad will be moving towards it. We might have room for a rookie on the blueline and at forward, less likely at forward, but we have other rookies that have more talent and more stock in our future.

I don't know about O'Brien, but I think the Konopka love is a little bit overboard. Unless we can convince somebody to take on Marchant's salary, none of our top four centers are going anywhere. He's going to go where he'll be able to play.

I still think that Konopka will find it hard to get a one-way contract offer from any team other than the Ducks.

two-way offers are going to come at him from every team though.

that is the one thing that could keep Konopka with the Ducks. If Burke wants him in the NHL then he will offer the one-way contract and Zenon will jump on it, if not Konopka signs a two-way deal with another team.

O'Brien will get his qualifying offer...so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

He needs to have a really good training camp to make the team though.

These two guys are must signs in my opinion. :) I mean, they are just tearing up the AHL. Konopka would bring toughness and a considerable scoring touch, while O'Brien would consiberably help our usually anemic PP and bring even more toughness. :)

GL to both of them!!! :) :yo:

I don't know about O'Brien, but I think the Konopka love is a little bit overboard. Unless we can convince somebody to take on Marchant's salary, none of our top four centers are going anywhere. He's going to go where he'll be able to play.
Put him on the wing.

Konopka is averaging almost 2 PPG with grit and physical play in the AHL playoffs. THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO SIGN HIM.

The Ducks need Konopka for their 4th line in a big way, but I think O'Brien won't get out of Portland, except maybe for a call up.

Konopka has nothing more to prove in the AHL he is a true AHL 1st liner and has been the last 2 years. He already played in the NHL and showed he can score. As an extra bonus he is tough as hell,a huge hitter, great defensive pker, and vocal leader. He easily replaces Friesen x 20.
As for O'Brien let the stats speak for themselves 2005-06 Portland Pirates AHL 77(games) 8(goals) 33(assists) 41(pts) 287 PIMS

I would love to see Z resign with us but thinking Burke is going to give him a one-way deal is crazy. He's AHL stud. He was on this team and got sent down a couple of times. Yeah he brings grit and tons of enthusiasm but what we're talking about here is a fourth liner. I think he would be a good fourth liner but I'm telling you the dude is gonna want to go to a team that NEEDS him. We don't need Konopka. We have Moen and this Melin guy to be our grinders. You got to ignore his AHL numbers because that doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success (Penner, Perry, and Getzlaf excluded).

As for O'Brien let the stats speak for themselves 2005-06 Portland Pirates AHL 77(games) 8(goals) 33(assists) 41(pts) 287 PIMS

Yeah that's what we need, a d-man who spends all his time in the box. I tend to remember everyone harping on Rusty because he takes too many penalties. From what I hear it's not just fighting majors either, it's a lot of BAD penalties. He have more stock in Smid, Skinner, and Kondratchev so OB will be lucky to get a QO.

I would love to see Z resign with us but thinking Burke is going to give him a one-way deal is crazy. He's AHL stud. He was on this team and got sent down a couple of times. Yeah he brings grit and tons of enthusiasm but what we're talking about here is a fourth liner. I think he would be a good fourth liner but I'm telling you the dude is gonna want to go to a team that NEEDS him. We don't need Konopka. We have Moen and this Melin guy to be our grinders. You got to ignore his AHL numbers because that doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success (Penner, Perry, and Getzlaf excluded).


except that Konopka was successfull 23 games 7pts in very limited 4th line minutes and as i recall he scored some big goals. And Melin as a grinder is not even in the same league as Konopka.

Yeah that's what we need, a d-man who spends all his time in the box. I tend to remember everyone harping on Rusty because he takes too many penalties. From what I hear it's not just fighting majors either, it's a lot of BAD penalties. He have more stock in Smid, Skinner, and Kondratchev so OB will be lucky to get a QO.


True that total is high skill is harder to teach then dicipline. Lets also remember Gillies and Brennen were out pretty much all year and O'Brien was basically an enforcer on D that scored 41 pts. :dunno:

in the 18 playoff games so far O'Brien has 6+15=21 points and 77 PIM
btw he is 7th in the AHL for points for the playoffs and 1st for D

It seems as if he goes a few games with no pim and then has a wopper of a game

True that total is high skill is harder to teach then dicipline. Lets also remember Gillies and Brennen were out pretty much all year and O'Brien was basically an enforcer on D that scored 41 pts. :dunno:

Yeah but if you look at our d-men now, their game is focused on puck movement and positioning, we have forwards like Fridge and Moen doing the enforcer work. I know OD, Beach and Joey drop the gloves when necessary but only when necessary. I just really think that the log jam of d-men above him might hinder his chances of getting a contract. As with Z, I think OB would want to walk too. We have first rounders and traded players ahead of him and I just think Burke will cut him loose.

I would love to see Z resign with us but thinking Burke is going to give him a one-way deal is crazy. He's AHL stud. He was on this team and got sent down a couple of times. Yeah he brings grit and tons of enthusiasm but what we're talking about here is a fourth liner. I think he would be a good fourth liner but I'm telling you the dude is gonna want to go to a team that NEEDS him. We don't need Konopka. We have Moen and this Melin guy to be our grinders. You got to ignore his AHL numbers because that doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success (Penner, Perry, and Getzlaf excluded).

Wow...Just wow...

1) Melin has played exactly 0 games in small rinks

2) Melin is not a grinder

3) Melin has a 2-way contract

4) We need Zenon to replace Hedström & Friesen

5) AHL numbers translate to NHL numbers much better than SEL numbers.

I just can't believe how many dumb things you can fit in to one post TheJoeMan...

Yeah but if you look at our d-men now, their game is focused on puck movement and positioning, we have forwards like Fridge and Moen doing the enforcer work. I know OD, Beach and Joey drop the gloves when necessary but only when necessary. I just really think that the log jam of d-men above him might hinder his chances of getting a contract. As with Z, I think OB would want to walk too. We have first rounders and traded players ahead of him and I just think Burke will cut him loose.

We have absolutely zero players in the AHL that are more ready for NHL than Zenon and OB.

Smid - not ready according to Portland posters

Kondratiev - same for him

Skinner - atleast 1 year away from NHL

Wow...Just wow...

1) Melin has played exactly 0 games in small rinks

2) Melin is not a grinder

3) Melin has a 2-way contract

4) We need Zenon to replace Hedström & Friesen

5) AHL numbers translate to NHL numbers much better than SEL numbers.

I just can't believe how many dumb things you can fit in to one post TheJoeMan...

If these reports are true that Melin has signed a contract it draws one piece of evidence that Melin might be on this team but Z won't: He has a contract and Konopka doesn't.

What's funny though is I'm sure you've never seen this guy play in Sweden yet you know he's not a grinder. He's obviously a replacement for Hedstrom and that leads me to believe he'll play a similar game. Also Z's number didn't translate into NHL scoring when he was here. 4 goals in 23 games is good for a grinder but everyone thinks his great numbers in Portland will carry over here. Again I love Z but I just don't think he's coming back.

Look at our lineup right now:

Kunitz(RFA) - McDonald(RFA) - Selanne(UFA)
Penner - Marchant - Lupul(RFA)
Friesen(UFA) - Pahlsson - Niedermayer
Fedoruk(RFA) - Getzlaf - Perry

Moen(RFA)

Teemu is coming back no doubt about it so that leaves Friesen as the only real replacement and Burke will fill that void with a UFA. If anything we bring Z on as a reserve but I think the signing of this Melin guy complicates that. Unless Z wants to spend a few more years in the minors he'll walk.

We have absolutely zero players in the AHL that are more ready for NHL than Zenon and OB.

Smid - not ready according to Portland posters

Kondratiev - same for him

Skinner - atleast 1 year away from NHL

We've made this arguement a million times before and I said I wouldn't continue it until after June 30(when and if OB gets a QO) so I'll bring it back up then.

If these reports are true that Melin has signed a contract it draws one piece of evidence that Melin might be on this team but Z won't: He has a contract and Konopka doesn't.

Melin has a TWO-WAY CONTRACT. You know what that means right? Bryz doesn't have a contract either, does that mean he's gone too?

What's funny though is I'm sure you've never seen this guy play in Sweden yet you know he's not a grinder.

What's even funnier is the fact how wrong you are. I've seen ~5 Melin's games past year. And he's no grinder.

He's obviously a replacement for Hedstrom and that leads me to believe he'll play a similar game.

Hedström had 1-way contract, Melin doesn't. And just how exactly you reached the conclusion that Melin is Hedström's replacement?? Just because he's a swede as well??? You have seen the guy play zero times and you draw conclusions about his playstyle from the guy you THINK he's replacing in Ducks? My gawd, that logic has so many holes I don't know where to start.

Also Z's number didn't translate into NHL scoring when he was here. 4 goals in 23 games is good for a grinder but everyone thinks his great numbers in Portland will carry over here. Again I love Z but I just don't think he's coming back.

Do you know what? You're once again so wrong & so lost it's not even funny anymore.

If you count Z's points per minute played (in a defensive role & on 4th line mind you), he scored more than Penner, Pahlsson Hedström and Marchant during his brief stint here.

Melin has a TWO-WAY CONTRACT. You know what that means right? Bryz doesn't have a contract either, does that mean he's gone too?

Konopka is a UFA, he's 25 and not in our future plans.


Hedström had 1-way contract, Melin doesn't. And just how exactly you reached the conclusion that Melin is Hedström's replacement?? Just because he's a swede as well??? You have seen the guy play zero times and you draw conclusions about his playstyle from the guy you THINK he's replacing in Ducks? My gawd, that logic has so many holes I don't know where to start.

We all said these exact same things about Hedstrom last summer and he ended up on the team. Ok so he doesn't have a one-way deal but if you think Burke is going to give one to Konopka you're crazy. If Z is so freaking good, why was he sent back down? He's a minor leaguer, it's not like we're talking about our next great scoring threat here.



Do you know what? You're once again so wrong & so lost it's not even funny anymore.

Why am I so lost? Is it because I noticed that this team is already stacked for next year and I'd like the see us replace our ONE offensive vacancy with a UFA and not a fourth line grinder? Again, I would LIKE to see Z here but if I was the guy I would go to another team. To think that we are the only team that play him is pretty naive and contradictory to your whole arguement. He had a great year in Portland which I imagine would garner some interest from other teams. Teams that NEEDS a fourth line center. I love how we always argue about the most marginal players.

I think he would be a good fourth liner but I'm telling you the dude is gonna want to go to a team that NEEDS him. We don't need Konopka.

who are these teams that need Konopka?

The Ducks are the team that knows him and likes him, the 29 other teams don't really know him all that much...

Konopka is a UFA, he's 25 and not in our future plans.



do you have a quote from Burke supporting this statement?

We all said these exact same things about Hedstrom last summer and he ended up on the team. Ok so he doesn't have a one-way deal but if you think Burke is going to give one to Konopka you're crazy. If Z is so freaking good, why was he sent back down? He's a minor leaguer, it's not like we're talking about our next great scoring threat here.

Konopka is a legit NHL grinder...why is he in the minors?

1. he has a two-way contract...so when someone has to be sent down...you send down the two-way guy.

2. Burke has recognized Konopka's upside and is most likely pleased that Konopka is playing a ton of minutes in Portland and continuing to get better.

Teemu is coming back no doubt about it so that leaves Friesen as the only real replacement and Burke will fill that void with a UFA. If anything we bring Z on as a reserve but I think the signing of this Melin guy complicates that. Unless Z wants to spend a few more years in the minors he'll walk.

Melin is still going to have to have a great training camp to make the team.

Z will walk for a one-way contract. For a two-way contract he will stick with the organization that got him to the NHL.

We've made this arguement a million times before and I said I wouldn't continue it until after June 30(when and if OB gets a QO) so I'll bring it back up then.

You think Burke is dumb enough to not qualify his top d-man at the AHL level?

You think Burke is dumb enough to not qualify his top d-man at the AHL level?
You mean like Foster and Popovic from last year? ;)

If we lose either of those I'm gonna get maaad! :rant: :madfire:
Yea tell me about it, I mean where else will we find our 13th forward and 7th defensemen. :dunno:



EDIT. Before you guys freak out, I'm just giving you a hard time. The love for these 2 players has significantly over-rated them, that is why I never praise either.

We all said these exact same things about Hedstrom last summer and he ended up on the team. Ok so he doesn't have a one-way deal but if you think Burke is going to give one to Konopka you're crazy. If Z is so freaking good, why was he sent back down? He's a minor leaguer, it's not like we're talking about our next great scoring threat here.
Hedstrom was signed because he played 2 games in the NHL before. The name "Melin" wasn't even heard until Burke announced that we had signed him. Obviously, Konopka had 23 games of NHL experience before so we know what he can bring to the table which is leadership, enthusiasm, and a boat load of grit. As for a defensive forward, he score 4 goals, timely ones if I might add. Z deserves spot here in Anaheim, Melin doesn't and that's bottom line.

You mean like Foster and Popovic from last year? ;)

the difference being that O'Brien plays Brian Burke hockey and Burke took a long look at O'Brien in training camp...

Yea tell me about it, I mean where else will we find our 13th forward and 7th defensemen. :dunno:



EDIT. Before you guys freak out, I'm just giving you a hard time. The love for these 2 players has significantly over-rated them, that is why I never praise either.

we love them for a reason...They are heart and soul players...it shows what kind of people we have on this board...good people that appreciate players that will do anything to win and will stick up for their teammates no matter what.

we love them for a reason...They are heart and soul players...it shows what kind of people we have on this board...good people that appreciate players that will do anything to win and will stick up for their teammates no matter what.
I want to see them have success at the NHL level, I like them for the very same reasons. However I keep their potential within expectations, where as some other posters have put their expectations out of reach.

i would like to see konopka resigned. he actually fits the mold of a brian burke player. a team player through and through, a guy who works hard, and everyone forgets this one (its HUGE to burke) a guy who is active in charities and gives back to the community. konopka is awesome in that regard, and i completely respect the guy.

I would love to see Z resign with us but thinking Burke is going to give him a one-way deal is crazy. He's AHL stud. He was on this team and got sent down a couple of times. Yeah he brings grit and tons of enthusiasm but what we're talking about here is a fourth liner. I think he would be a good fourth liner but I'm telling you the dude is gonna want to go to a team that NEEDS him. We don't need Konopka. We have Moen and this Melin guy to be our grinders. You got to ignore his AHL numbers because that doesn't necessarily translate to NHL success (Penner, Perry, and Getzlaf excluded).

Moen and Melin may be good grinders, but Konopka is king when it comes to energy players. Not to mention he had a couple of goals in only a couple of games. We do NEED Konopka. I'll take him over Moen and Melin any day of the week.

Konopka is a UFA, he's 25 and not in our future plans.

Give me one piece of evidence to support your claim, other than your own delusional opinions that is.

We all said these exact same things about Hedstrom last summer and he ended up on the team. Ok so he doesn't have a one-way deal but if you think Burke is going to give one to Konopka you're crazy. If Z is so freaking good, why was he sent back down? He's a minor leaguer, it's not like we're talking about our next great scoring threat here.

What's so hard to understand in

1) Melin has a 2-way contract as opposed to Hedström's 1-way contract?

and

2) Melin is not the same type of player as Hedström?

Zenon was sent back down because of his contract and for the fact that he's so important to Portland. We already robbed the team of Perry, Penner and Getzlaf, we couldn't take their best remaining forward.

And let me once again remind you that Z's scoring pace was higher than Marchant's, Hedström's and Pahlsson's.

Why am I so lost? Is it because I noticed that this team is already stacked for next year and I'd like the see us replace our ONE offensive vacancy with a UFA and not a fourth line grinder?

Hahahaa, this is a classic. Weren't you the one who didn't want to trade Kunitz because we don't need anymore forwards & we're already good enough??

Seriously, you're just digging your hole deeper & deeper.

I want to see them have success at the NHL level, I like them for the very same reasons. However I keep their potential within expectations, where as some other posters have put their expectations out of reach.

So what are your expectations for them?

The way I see them at NHL level:

1) Konopka is a physical energy player capable of reasonable offensive production while bringing lots of leadership. Can play almost any role from 1st to 4th line.

2) O'Brien is a VERY physical d-man with a killer shot. Has racked up some serious points in Portland (much more than Smid & Kondratiev). Can also play in several different roles from PP QB to 7th d-man. Kinda like Sean O'Donnell but with a very cheap contract and much better offensive skills.

So what are your expectations for them?

The way I see them at NHL level:

1) Konopka is a physical energy player capable of reasonable offensive production while bringing lots of leadership. Can play almost any role from 1st to 4th line.

2) O'Brien is a VERY physical d-man with a killer shot. Has racked up some serious points in Portland (much more than Smid & Kondratiev). Can also play in several different roles from PP QB to 7th d-man. Kinda like Sean O'Donnell but with a very cheap contract and much better offensive skills.

agree with your comments about Konopka, and I also agree about O'Brien. However, do you really see a spot on this team for O'Brien? Even if he should be here, do you see him here? I think the Ducks will bring in another high priced defensemen, maybe Jovo, and isn't Smid supposed to be coming up? Dipenta is a damn good 7th defensemen too. Where does that leave O'Brien?

Beauchemin-S.Niedermayer
UFA/Salei-Smid
O'Donnell-Vish
Dipenta

By the way, I'd be all for O'Brien replacing O'Donnell. I just don't see it happening.

O'Donnell has 1 more year in his contract, it could be tough to move him.

There's no guarantee of Smid making it to NHL, we have absolutely no need to rush him to NHL.

I know what Burke said and I don't mind seeing him fighting for a spot at the camp but lets be honest here, Smid hasn't exactly dominated in the AHL yet so it really doesn't hurt either Ducks or Smid to play 25+ mins per game one more year under Kevin Dineen's coaching.

I don't think Jovo is coming here, it seems the prices have really jumped higher and we have few RFAs looking for big raises to sign.

As much I like Vish, his developement has leveled and he's not gonna get any better.

Then there's Salei...If he's looking for big raise, he's as good as gone, the amount of dumb penalties he took in the regular season was just astrononical (I believe he lead the league in minor penalties).

I don't know, there's going to be some tough choices. DiPenta has played well and he has a cheap contract. I guess the optimum situation is that O'Donnell gets traded and he's replaced with O'Brien, we're saving ~1.5M per year with that move. If Salei wants to go, we could replace him with Jovo (Salei's 2M + 1.5M saved from OD's contract = 3.5M, Jovo gets ~5.5M per year meaning a 2M jump in payroll)

Beauch - Nieds
Jovo - Vish
OB - veteran UFA (say "klee")
DiPenta

Who knows...

Give me one piece of evidence to support your claim, other than your own delusional opinions that is.

He's a Group VI Free Agent because he is over 25 and has played less than 80 NHL games. He wasn't drafted, in fact was a rookie camp try-out so to say this guy was in our future plans is ridiculous. Perry, Getzlaf, Penner(although only recently) and Ryan are in our future plans. This team is contender now, we aren't going to restock it every year with rookies.



What's so hard to understand in

1) Melin has a 2-way contract as opposed to Hedström's 1-way contract?

and

2) Melin is not the same type of player as Hedström?

Zenon was sent back down because of his contract and for the fact that he's so important to Portland. We already robbed the team of Perry, Penner and Getzlaf, we couldn't take their best remaining forward.

And let me once again remind you that Z's scoring pace was higher than Marchant's, Hedström's and Pahlsson's.

Oh it was his contract that got him sent down because Burke was feeling bad that he took all of Portland good forwards. Let me tell you this, Brian Burke cares about one team winning, the Mighty Ducks. He sent down Konopka because he kept getting hurt and takes too many penalties. His scoring pace might have been better than the three you mentioned but those guys are defensive forwards who do a lot more than score. Also, all of Z's goals were chip ins or garbage goals right in the crease. It's not like he had a scoring touch or anything. He was also on pace for over 100 penalty minutes and that doesn't work for a fourth liner.



Hahahaa, this is a classic. Weren't you the one who didn't want to trade Kunitz because we don't need anymore forwards & we're already good enough??

Seriously, you're just digging your hole deeper & deeper.

See this is why it's hard arguing with you because you don't understant what I'm telling you. I don't want to trade Kunitz or Lupul because they have had career seasons and you were talking about trading for All-Stars that are unnecessary upgrade. We might have one vacancy and I think we should sign a UFA unless Friesen wants to take a pay cut.

I like Konopka, I like him a lot but only because he plays his heart out and is fun to watch. But he takes a lot of penalties and doesn't have great hands or blinding speed. He's an OK player, he didn't have an impact on this team and the last I check we were in the Western Conference Finals. I'm looking forward to when Bobby Ryan comes here because that kid could be our best player. I don't know what hole your talking about, I won't back down from my arguement.

By the way, I'd be all for O'Brien replacing O'Donnell. I just don't see it happening.

OD is a solid, veteren D-man who has scored two gigantic goals in these playoffs and you'd rather have an untested rookie who takes too many penalties? Am I the one on these boards who thinks NHL vets are better than untested, high round/undrafted players?

i would like to see konopka resigned. he actually fits the mold of a brian burke player. a team player through and through, a guy who works hard, and everyone forgets this one (its HUGE to burke) a guy who is active in charities and gives back to the community. konopka is awesome in that regard, and i completely respect the guy.

good point!! :handclap:

who are these teams that need Konopka?

The Ducks are the team that knows him and likes him, the 29 other teams don't really know him all that much...

That is the most naive thing I've heard on these boards. To think that all the other teams scouts haven't noticed Konopka is laughable. He's had a great season in the AHL, had a brief but decent stint in the NHL and having a very good playoff. He also has an agent who will contacting these teams as well. What's funny is everyone thinks he's perfect for our team but for others they wouldn't even know his name. That's priceless.

agree with your comments about Konopka, and I also agree about O'Brien. However, do you really see a spot on this team for O'Brien? Even if he should be here, do you see him here? I think the Ducks will bring in another high priced defensemen, maybe Jovo, and isn't Smid supposed to be coming up? Dipenta is a damn good 7th defensemen too. Where does that leave O'Brien?

Beauchemin-S.Niedermayer
UFA/Salei-Smid
O'Donnell-Vish
Dipenta

By the way, I'd be all for O'Brien replacing O'Donnell. I just don't see it happening.

Smid shouldn't be there...he isn't ready for 20 minutes a night in the NHL. Move O'Donnell to that spot with Salei as they are now. Put O'Brien with Vish on the third pairing. DiPenta as the 7th d-man is fine.

That is the most naive thing I've heard on these boards. To think that all the other teams scouts haven't noticed Konopka is laughable. He's had a great season in the AHL, had a brief but decent stint in the NHL and having a very good playoff. He also has an agent who will contacting these teams as well. What's funny is everyone thinks he's perfect for our team but for others they wouldn't even know his name. That's priceless.

Theres a difference between the teams seeing Zenon and being willing to offer him a two-way contract (which at least 10-20 teams would do)...and a team offering a one-way contract (which Anaheim may be the only team to do).

Obviously we all know that the 30 teams have AHL scouts...so don't think we are that ignorant please. :teach:

The Ducks are the team that knows his character, knows who he is as a person...knows what he will do for this team.

I want to see them have success at the NHL level, I like them for the very same reasons. However I keep their potential within expectations, where as some other posters have put their expectations out of reach.
Konopka's come a long way. He has obviously developed some offensive skill, you don't average 2 ppg in the playoffs and not have any. he can be a terrific bottom six forward who can chip in with goals, good PK skills, leadership, and physical play.

So what are your expectations for them?

The way I see them at NHL level:

1) Konopka is a physical energy player capable of reasonable offensive production while bringing lots of leadership. Can play almost any role from 1st to 4th line.

2) O'Brien is a VERY physical d-man with a killer shot. Has racked up some serious points in Portland (much more than Smid & Kondratiev). Can also play in several different roles from PP QB to 7th d-man. Kinda like Sean O'Donnell but with a very cheap contract and much better offensive skills.
Konopka - 4th line forward, with 3rd line upside. I don't want him in the top 6 at all. He isn't quick enough for the NHL to play in the top 6. The speed of the game is much different AHL to NHL. He could also have a spot on the 2nd PP unit infront of the net because he is good at getting a stick on point shots.

O'Brien - 3rd pairing D-man. I have never argued against him because noone here has suggested a top 4 upside, where with Konopka people have mentioned top 6 upside which is what I have always argued against.

Smid's awareness is NHL ready. I admit I only got to see 1 Portland game this year, but at the game you can pick him out easily as his first pass and the way he reads plays is above everyone else. That same game O'Brien played forward so I can't evaluate him much.

He sent down Konopka because he kept getting hurt and takes too many penalties.
Would you rather have a 4th liner that's as soft as Marc Chouinard?
His scoring pace might have been better than the three you mentioned but those guys are defensive forwards who do a lot more than score.
You haven't been listening haven't you? So is Zenon, he's also a defensive forward with grit. If he were to in a full 80 game NHL season, at a rate of 4 goals for every 23 games, he'd have at least 12 goals for the season... And he's a 4th liner defensive grinder.
Also, all of Z's goals were chip ins or garbage goals right in the crease. It's not like he had a scoring touch or anything. He was also on pace for over 100 penalty minutes and that doesn't work for a fourth liner.
11g + 18a = 29pts in the AHL playoffs with Portland. Tell me those weren't all tip-ins and garbage goals. BTW, the definition of a goal is when the puck crosses the red line, not when someone shoots it on net. Heck, if goals were counted like that, we'd be winning the series against Edmonton by now. Besides, the team coming out on top will need all the goals they can get. So don't assume that Z can't score just for the matter of fact that most of his goals were tip-ins and garbage goals. It doesn't matter how the goal was scored, a goal is a goal, there's no distinction.

This is getting too damn funny.

Penner/AndyMac/Selanne
Perry/Getzlaf/(hopefully Bertuzzi or Nolan)
Neids/Konopka/Lupul
Marchant/Pahlson/Fedoruk
Moen

Friesen-Hopefully we wont see him again
Kunitz-Hopefully packaged with Giggy for Bertuzzi

The rookies will be much better next year and the addition of a power forward will be all this team needs. And Yes there is a place for Zenon

Nolan


Eww. :amazed: :shakehead

This is getting too damn funny.

Penner/AndyMac/Selanne
Perry/Getzlaf/(hopefully Bertuzzi or Nolan)
Neids/Konopka/Lupul
Marchant/Pahlson/Fedoruk
Moen

Friesen-Hopefully we wont see him again
Kunitz-Hopefully packaged with Giggy for Bertuzzi

The rookies will be much better next year and the addition of a power forward will be all this team needs. And Yes there is a place for Zenon

Third line center???? C'mon Dirk, he'll be lucky to make the team if he gets a contract but to bump Marchant to wing and insert Z to the third line? No way. I hate how this arguement has gone because I really like the guy but he's not that good. Marchant was awesome in the playoffs and is a center not a winger. Z can play wing, I have no problem with that except Kunitz isn't going anywhere and I'd like to see Moen stay on the team.

I would like to see Friesen resigned if he takes a pay cut but that probably won't happen. Nolan, if he's healthy would be a good second line fit. Oh and Jiggy isn't going anywhere, not before TC at least. Him and Bryz are going to fight for the number one job during the season. Ilya needed to carry us all the way to dislodge Jiggy and that didn't happen.

So would like to see Friesen, Moen and Kunitz back but not Konopka??

TheJoeMan, you're not making any sense here. From your claims that Melin is a NHL-ready grinder to re-signing Friesen...I think you might be a Kings fan.

Also, all of Z's goals were chip ins or garbage goals right in the crease. It's not like he had a scoring touch or anything. He was also on pace for over 100 penalty minutes and that doesn't work for a fourth liner.

Who cares how he scores goals? Getting those 'dirty' goals is just as important as 100mph slapshots to the top corner. And you DON'T score that many goals in AHL without having scoring touch, that's a FACT.

See this is why it's hard arguing with you because you don't understant what I'm telling you. I don't want to trade Kunitz or Lupul because they have had career seasons and you were talking about trading for All-Stars that are unnecessary upgrade. We might have one vacancy and I think we should sign a UFA unless Friesen wants to take a pay cut.

So you don't want to trade Kunitz who's a 3rd liner playing at 1st line?? What the hell is 'unnecessary upgrade'?? You're making zero sense again.

I like Konopka, I like him a lot but only because he plays his heart out and is fun to watch. But he takes a lot of penalties and doesn't have great hands or blinding speed. He's an OK player, he didn't have an impact on this team and the last I check we were in the Western Conference Finals. I'm looking forward to when Bobby Ryan comes here because that kid could be our best player. I don't know what hole your talking about, I won't back down from my arguement.

Ryan is ATLEAST 1 (most likely 2 or 3) year away from the NHL and there are zero forwards in Portland more ready for NHL than Z.

I want to see this lineup next season"

Penner McDonald Selanne
FA/UFA FA/UFA Lupul
Kunitz Pahlsson Niedermeyer
Fedoruk Getzlaf Perry
Konopka, Melin

Beauchemin Niedermeyer
FA/UFA FA/UFA
Vish Smid
O'Brien

Bryzgalov
FA/UFA

Gone?
1) Giguere (not worth the money)
2) O'Donnell (too slow and too many mistakes)
3) DiPenta (not good enough)
4) Friesen (can't score)
5) Moen (worthless)
6) Salei (Ducks need to upgrade)
7) Marchant (too much money, upgrade needed)

Looks like a lot of work for O'Brien to handle the 3rd defensive line all by himself :)

I want to see this lineup next season"

Penner McDonald Selanne
FA/UFA FA/UFA Lupul
Kunitz Pahlsson Niedermeyer
Fedoruk Getzlaf Perry
Konopka, Melin

Beauchemin Niedermeyer
FA/UFA FA/UFA
Vish Smid
O'Brien

Bryzgalov
FA/UFA

Gone?
1) Giguere (not worth the money)
2) O'Donnell (too slow and too many mistakes)
3) DiPenta (not good enough)
4) Friesen (can't score)
5) Moen (worthless)
6) Salei (Ducks need to upgrade)

Looks like a lot of work for O'Brien to handle the 3rd defensive line all by himself :)

O'Brian and Smid can sub in and out. The Ducks need to start rolling 7 defensemen throughout the year to save the guys from injuries.

I think Melin should play big minutes in Portland next year. Same for Smid.

O'Brian and Smid can sub in and out. The Ducks need to start rolling 7 defensemen throughout the year to save the guys from injuries.

Sorry, I didn't realized you wrote down 3 d-pairings AND O'Brien...my bad :)

[QUOTE=Jerky Leclerc]I want to see this lineup next season"

Penner McDonald Selanne
FA/UFA FA/UFA Lupul
Kunitz Pahlsson Niedermeyer
Fedoruk Getzlaf Perry
Konopka, Melin

Why would we keep Pahlsson over Marchant? Todd is far more versatile than God and it would make more sense to have him in the lineup IMO.


Beauchemin Niedermeyer
FA/UFA FA/UFA
Vish Smid
O'Brien

I agree our defense needs an upgrade, and it must be someone whos physical and can help our sad powerplay.

Bryzgalov
FA/UFA

Agree, Giggy was good last night - but the first goal was stoppable and helped change the flow of the game. If we can get a experienced forward or offensive defenseman for him we should make the move.

Gone?
1) Giguere (not worth the money)
2) O'Donnell (too slow and too many mistakes)
3) DiPenta (not good enough)
4) Friesen (can't score)
5) Moen (worthless)
6) Salei (Ducks need to upgrade)
7) Marchant (too much money, upgrade needed)

Not a bad list. I don't agree 100% about Giguere, but it really comes down to what Burke can get for him. If that fills some of the holes on the roster (and there are some) then so be it.

O'Donnell is a good guy for the 3rd pair. Not the second pair.

Salei is a budget question. Can we fit an upgraded salary into the budget? Probably and I'd LOVE to see Wade Redden in a Ducks sweater.

The glaring omission from your list is Vishneski. I watched him very closely in the playoffs and the guy is just plain worthless. If it came to a choice between Vish and DiPenta, I'd go with DiPenta and not look back.

I always thought Vish would be a playoff warrior, but he seemed pretty overwhelmed. Pretty disappointing.

Giguere shouldn't be dumped just to get rid of salary, we need some assets in return.

Giguere shouldn't be dumped just to get rid of salary, we need some assets in return.

Yep.

Third line center???? C'mon Dirk, he'll be lucky to make the team if he gets a contract but to bump Marchant to wing and insert Z to the third line? No way. I hate how this arguement has gone because I really like the guy but he's not that good. Marchant was awesome in the playoffs and is a center not a winger. Z can play wing, I have no problem with that except Kunitz isn't going anywhere and I'd like to see Moen stay on the team.

I would like to see Friesen resigned if he takes a pay cut but that probably won't happen. Nolan, if he's healthy would be a good second line fit. Oh and Jiggy isn't going anywhere, not before TC at least. Him and Bryz are going to fight for the number one job during the season. Ilya needed to carry us all the way to dislodge Jiggy and that didn't happen.

OK, Friesen shouldn't be back and he won't be back. He showed up for a couple games in the playoffs and that's all. He didn't do **** during the regular season and he'll do the same next year. He'll always be a good playoff performer, but that's all, he doesn't show up during the regular season.

For Pahlsson's sake, DON"T MENTION THE NAME NOLAN AGAIN! :rant:

Who cares how he scores goals? Getting those 'dirty' goals is just as important as 100mph slapshots to the top corner. And you DON'T score that many goals in AHL without having scoring touch, that's a FACT.

The point I was trying to make was they were not precision goals meaning that he may not score them all that often, ie they were kind of lucky goals. I don't look at his AHL numbers with much credence because I look at how he played when he was here and a scoring threat he was not.



So you don't want to trade Kunitz who's a 3rd liner playing at 1st line?? What the hell is 'unnecessary upgrade'?? You're making zero sense again.

An unnecessary upgrade is trading someone who had a great year for someone that might be better. Like, "Hey Kunie, what a great year. This was our best season ever and you were a big part. Unfortunately it wasn't good enough so instead of letting you go out and do it again or even better, we're going to trade you for someone we think is better. Sorry bro.

I don't like screwing with chemistry, we did that three years ago and our team was mediocre. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.



Ryan is ATLEAST 1 (most likely 2 or 3) year away from the NHL and there are zero forwards in Portland more ready for NHL than Z.

I'm not saying Ryan is next in line for the NHL, I'm saying he is our only forward that we are grooming for the Ducks. He's under contract and unless he has a so-so camp I expect him to be with the club for the first 9 games. Before you bite my head off about this like everyone else does ponder this for a moment.

His contract doesn't kick in until he plays 10 games so why not have him on the team and get his feet wet and see how he does against NHL talent in real games, not preseason. You send him back to Owen Sound will invaluable expierence and he dominates the OHL. Or be shows he's ready and makes the team, not likely but a lot can happen in the next four months. I like to pull for the players that will make a real difference on this team like Perry, Getzlaf and now Penner have.

Ducks dont really have a 3rd and 4th line so i put the players that look like they fit good together. And Lupul and Konopka have great chemistry from last season.

[QUOTE=TheJoeMan]The point I was trying to make was they were not precision goals meaning that he may not score them all that often, ie they were kind of lucky goals. I don't look at his AHL numbers with much credence because I look at how he played when he was here and a scoring threat he was not.


Really 7 pts in 23 games playing 4-5 min a game. That is really amazing for a rookie. And i recall everytime he was on the ice he was a threat. As for saying he takes too many penalties he took 9 minors and most were for roughing or penalties in result to hard hits. Also he had 6 fights as well. Not too bad

The point I was trying to make was they were not precision goals meaning that he may not score them all that often, ie they were kind of lucky goals. I don't look at his AHL numbers with much credence because I look at how he played when he was here and a scoring threat he was not.

So garbage goals are 'lucky' goals? Maybe it's just his style to create offense?

When he was in Anaheim he played very limited minutes on the 4th line, that's pretty damn hard to be a scoring threat. Dustin Penner wasn't a scoring threat at first either!!

An unnecessary upgrade is trading someone who had a great year for someone that might be better. Like, "Hey Kunie, what a great year. This was our best season ever and you were a big part. Unfortunately it wasn't good enough so instead of letting you go out and do it again or even better, we're going to trade you for someone we think is better. Sorry bro.

I really don't understand you...So basicly you're saying that we shouldn't try to improve the team? Kunitz's value will most likely be never be this high and there's a very good chance he won't get any better. I like Kunitz but he's only a 3rd liner in reality. And we have too many of them.

I'm not saying Ryan is next in line for the NHL, I'm saying he is our only forward that we are grooming for the Ducks. He's under contract and unless he has a so-so camp I expect him to be with the club for the first 9 games. Before you bite my head off about this like everyone else does ponder this for a moment.

His contract doesn't kick in until he plays 10 games so why not have him on the team and get his feet wet and see how he does against NHL talent in real games, not preseason. You send him back to Owen Sound will invaluable expierence and he dominates the OHL. Or be shows he's ready and makes the team, not likely but a lot can happen in the next four months. I like to pull for the players that will make a real difference on this team like Perry, Getzlaf and now Penner have.

Ryan needs to have incredibly succesful training camp to have any chance to stay even to preseason games.

With Ryan we would have way too much inexperienced players in our team, with Penner, Getzlaff, Perry and Lupul already in.

Nope. Doesn't work that way.

So garbage goals are 'lucky' goals? Maybe it's just his style to create offense?
I said kind of lucky.

I really don't understand you...So basicly you're saying that we shouldn't try to improve the team? Kunitz's value will most likely be never be this high and there's a very good chance he won't get any better. I like Kunitz but he's only a 3rd liner in reality. And we have too many of them.

Our team is good, it's real good and having three rounds of playoff experience will make all of our rookies better for next year. With a full season I think Kunie can notch 25-30 goals and he'll only make like 1-1.5 next year. Find me a cheaper forward next year that'll have the same chemisty with Mac and Teemu and then you can have your "upgrade". The reality is he is a first liner on our team, just because he didn't score 50 goals or play a super physical game doesn't mean he doesn't belong. How long is it going to take until you realize that our best forwards are the fast, skilled ones?

Ryan needs to have incredibly succesful training camp to have any chance to stay even to preseason games.


Training Camp 2002 Joffrey Lupul stays until the end of training camp, is sent back to juniors, 2003 Ryan Getzlaf stays 'til the end of TC, then sent back to juniors, 2005 Bobby Ryan stays until the end of camp.... We see a pattern here, our coaches and scouts like use camp as developement tool to nurture our top draft picks. Now with Bobby already signed we can keep him even longer. Most teams leave room for one rookie and if we have room for him to stay next year and he earns it. he'll stay.

With Ryan we would have way too much inexperienced players in our team, with Penner, Getzlaff, Perry and Lupul already in.

Nope. Doesn't work that way.

What??? What do you call a whole year of pro hockey, half of that being in the NHL plus more 10, 13, and 16 games respectively for Perry, Penner and Getzlaf? Also Lupul has just completed his third year of pro and just set a Ducks record for playoff goals. These kids are vets now and will have big years next season. Bobby Ryan would be our only rookie forward.

What??? What do you call a whole year of pro hockey, half of that being in the NHL plus more 10, 13, and 16 games respectively for Perry, Penner and Getzlaf? 82 games in the NHL is a whole year, not 40, not 50, not 60.

I said kind of lucky.

Well that changes it completely, I mean the difference between 'lucky' and 'kind of lucky' is huge right? :shakehead

There's no such thing as lucky goalscorer if he does it repeatedly. You're one of those people who think skill equals fancy passes and stickhandling while completely forgetting that it takes just as much skill to score those so-called 'garbage' goals. It's just different type of skill.

But hey, I guess you think Ryan Smyth is just 'kind of lucky' as well (don't answer, rhetorical question).

How long is it going to take until you realize that our best forwards are the fast, skilled ones?

How long is it going to take you to realize that I've never ever claimed anythign like that??? Boy you're so lost here, you're grasping at straws big time by claiming I've said things I've never said in reality.

btw, fast and skilled players can be big and physical as well. But hey, I don't expect you to understand it as it's painfully obvious that you have that very limited way of thinking riddled with stupid stereotypes.

Training Camp 2002 Joffrey Lupul stays until the end of training camp, is sent back to juniors, 2003 Ryan Getzlaf stays 'til the end of TC, then sent back to juniors, 2005 Bobby Ryan stays until the end of camp.... We see a pattern here, our coaches and scouts like use camp as developement tool to nurture our top draft picks. Now with Bobby already signed we can keep him even longer. Most teams leave room for one rookie and if we have room for him to stay next year and he earns it. he'll stay.

:shakehead

In 2002 and 2003 we didn't have many rookies ready to make the system so Lupul was given every chance to stick around. In 2006 we have so much youth already in the system that we have to make sure we have enough experience as well. In 2002 and 2003 we had totally different management from GM to coaching.

I'm sure even you can figure out why the 2002 and 2003 situations don't really affect 2006 TC in any way whatsoever.

What??? What do you call a whole year of pro hockey, half of that being in the NHL plus more 10, 13, and 16 games respectively for Perry, Penner and Getzlaf? Also Lupul has just completed his third year of pro and just set a Ducks record for playoff goals. These kids are vets now and will have big years next season. Bobby Ryan would be our only rookie forward.

You really can't be that thick can you?? They are NOT veterans just because they aren't rookies anymore.

I can't believe you have to be explained something this fundamental.

Well that changes it completely, I mean the difference between 'lucky' and 'kind of lucky' is huge right? :shakehead

There's no such thing as lucky goalscorer if he does it repeatedly. You're one of those people who think skill equals fancy passes and stickhandling while completely forgetting that it takes just as much skill to score those so-called 'garbage' goals. It's just different type of skill.

But hey, I guess you think Ryan Smyth is just 'kind of lucky' as well (don't answer, rhetorical question).
I know scoring garbage goals takes skill but not much precision. Have you ever played hockey? It's way easier scoring while standing on top of the crease than it is flying up the wing. Problem is you have to wait for someone else to shoot first in order to bang away at the rebound. Let me just say this, Konopka is not a natural goal scorer, he'll tell you that.



How long is it going to take you to realize that I've never ever claimed anythign like that??? Boy you're so lost here, you're grasping at straws big time by claiming I've said things I've never said in reality.

btw, fast and skilled players can be big and physical as well. But hey, I don't expect you to understand it as it's painfully obvious that you have that very limited way of thinking riddled with stupid stereotypes.
I'm just trying to rationalize why you feel Kunitz isn't as good as he is and you seem to like tough, physical players more than the smallish finess players. If I'm terribly mistaken I apologize but I still can't figure out how you can't recognize a talented player like Kuntiz.



:shakehead

In 2002 and 2003 we didn't have many rookies ready to make the system so Lupul was given every chance to stick around. In 2006 we have so much youth already in the system that we have to make sure we have enough experience as well. In 2002 and 2003 we had totally different management from GM to coaching.

I'm sure even you can figure out why the 2002 and 2003 situations don't really affect 2006 TC in any way whatsoever.
In 2002 our starting lineup had two rookie forwards (Smirnov and Chistov), in 2003 we had three (Lupul, Holmqvist, and Burnett) and this year we had three (Getzlaf, Perry and Penner). Yes we had different management and coaching but we've had the same scouting staff that are the ones responsible for such things. Yes it's ultimately the coaches and the GM that determine the lineup but it's the scouts who tell them who's good and who deserves a shot. I've been surrounded by hockey and hockey players my whole life, I know how this works.



You really can't be that thick can you?? They are NOT veterans just because they aren't rookies anymore.

I can't believe you have to be explained something this fundamental.

I'd appreciate it if you would reframe from insulting me. I enjoy our "civil" arguements as long as they stay as such. Having said that, these players have proven they are not rookies anymore, can handle the pressure of the playoffs and yes, they are now veterens. Maybe not in sense of say Scotty or Teemu but they know are part of the team now and are expected to produce not as rookies but as veterens of the NHL.

You know what, we are completely misses the point anyways. Say Konopka is resigned and say he is given a one-way deal, where do you see him in the lineup? The only spot open is Friesen's and do you really think Burke isn't going to bring in a FA and fill that spot with a call-up player? If Z wants to be one of our reserves than he can come on board but I think the guy will want a better chance elsewhere. But than again what do I know? It's not like I've been following hockey since I was 6 years old or been playing it since I was 9. I guess all these statistic books and media guides I read and collect are useless anyways.

I know scoring garbage goals takes skill but not much precision. Have you ever played hockey? It's way easier scoring while standing on top of the crease than it is flying up the wing. Problem is you have to wait for someone else to shoot first in order to bang away at the rebound. Let me just say this, Konopka is not a natural goal scorer, he'll tell you that.

We have probably only 2 natural goal scorers in the team right now. Teemu and Lupul. From lucky to kind of lucky, from skill to precision. Just give it up, it's obvious that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Every team needs players to score those garbage goals, they are just as important as any other type of goal scored.

btw, I have played hockey at competitive junior level for years, with and against some current NHL-stars which I know very well & chat with them semi-regularly. How about you?

I'm just trying to rationalize why you feel Kunitz isn't as good as he is and you seem to like tough, physical players more than the smallish finess players. If I'm terribly mistaken I apologize but I still can't figure out how you can't recognize a talented player like Kuntiz.

Don't try to rationalize, it just ain't your thing.

Kunitz is not a small finesse player, he can play relatively gritty & physical game as well. Kunitz has some talent but he's not a 1st liner, he's a 3rd liner. When he wasn't playing with Andy & Teemu, he didn't do anything.

In 2002 our starting lineup had two rookie forwards (Smirnov and Chistov), in 2003 we had three (Lupul, Holmqvist, and Burnett) and this year we had three (Getzlaf, Perry and Penner). Yes we had different management and coaching but we've had the same scouting staff that are the ones responsible for such things. Yes it's ultimately the coaches and the GM that determine the lineup but it's the scouts who tell them who's good and who deserves a shot. I've been surrounded by hockey and hockey players my whole life, I know how this works.

Smirnov and Chistov both had played several full seasons in pro-league before coming to Anaheim, the rest of the team was full of veterans.

Holmqvist was a 24y veteran of 7 seasons in pro-leagues before coming to Anaheim, again the rest of the team was experienced.

06-07 team will have Penner, Getzlaf, Perry and Lupul in the 3 top lines. Do you seriously expect Carlyle to fit in a rookie to those already cramped 3 lines??

Scouting staff IS NOT RESPONSIBLE for deciding who will play in the pre-season games, your whole claim is just so absurd.

Like I said you're really grasping at straws here, you claim to 'know hockey' but everytime you post you just prove further that you really don't know how this works.

You know what, we are completely misses the point anyways. Say Konopka is resigned and say he is given a one-way deal, where do you see him in the lineup? The only spot open is Friesen's and do you really think Burke isn't going to bring in a FA and fill that spot with a call-up player?

Friesen, Hedstrom and Kunitz could be gone come next season, Konopka could very well center the 4th line next season. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if Burke doesn't make any UFA moves to fill those spots.

These are the facts:
1) Konopka is a Burke-type of player
2) Konopka has already played in Ducks and has shown grittyness, leadership and surprising offensive touch
3) Konopka will be cheap (league minimum most likely)

Why would Burke want to outbid the rest of the league for some UFA who might upset the chemistry when he has a excellent candidate waiting in the wings??

If Z wants to be one of our reserves than he can come on board but I think the guy will want a better chance elsewhere. But than again what do I know? It's not like I've been following hockey since I was 6 years old or been playing it since I was 9. I guess all these statistic books and media guides I read and collect are useless anyways.

Since you're obviously only trying to start a pissing match to create some 'credibility' here, I'm not gonna take your bragging too seriously. Let's just say that at the age of 9 I had been skating with a hockey stick for 6 years already...

btw, you're right, media guides and statistics books are useless. I don't know if you were being sarcastic there or not but if you really think media guides give you some hockey knowledge you're in for a rude surprise at some point. Collect them? Oh boy.

We have probably only 2 natural goal scorers in the team right now. Teemu and Lupul. From lucky to kind of lucky, from skill to precision. Just give it up, it's obvious that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Every team needs players to score those garbage goals, they are just as important as any other type of goal scored.
Andy, Perry, Getzlaf, and Kunitz aren't natural goal scorers?

btw, I have played hockey at competitive junior level for years, with and against some current NHL-stars which I know very well & chat with them semi-regularly. How about you?
I'm asking this in all sincerity but where did you play and whom did you play with? I never played junior hockey but I play youth hockey in So Cal for the Ontairo/Riverside Jets for many years. My old bosses were former pros and I got skate in their camps all the time. I don't really want to compare our hockey playing careers because we both could be feeding each other lost of BS but I assure what I'm telling you is true.

Don't try to rationalize, it just ain't your thing.

Kunitz is not a small finesse player, he can play relatively gritty & physical game as well. Kunitz has some talent but he's not a 1st liner, he's a 3rd liner. When he wasn't playing with Andy & Teemu, he didn't do anything.

Excuse me, please stop insulting me thank you. I rationalize EVERYTHING in my life my friend, please don't pretend like you have a clue who I am. Anyhow, I would catagorize Kunie as a smallish, finesse type player even though yes he is gritty and can be physical. But you haven't given me any justification on why he's not a 1st liner and should be a 3rd liner. He scored more goals than anyone on our third line and only Lupul scored more on a lower line and that's just because he's a RW. He very well can do even better next year, so the probability of him getting traded is unfounded.



Smirnov and Chistov both had played several full seasons in pro-league before coming to Anaheim, the rest of the team was full of veterans.
A rookie is still a rookie.

Holmqvist was a 24y veteran of 7 seasons in pro-leagues before coming to Anaheim, again the rest of the team was experienced.
Again. But the point you seemed to have been making was guys like Lupul and Getzlaf stayed on because we didn't have any other rookies fighting for spots, we did. In 03 it came down to Lupul or Getz to make the team.

06-07 team will have Penner, Getzlaf, Perry and Lupul in the 3 top lines. Do you seriously expect Carlyle to fit in a rookie to those already cramped 3 lines??
It's a 24 man roster, I'm talking about giving me a few shifts a game to get his feet wet. After 9 games you send him back.

Scouting staff IS NOT RESPONSIBLE for deciding who will play in the pre-season games, your whole claim is just so absurd.
I didn't say that, what I meant was they are responsible for imforming the GM and coaches who's good and woh deserves a shot. Do you think Burke watches every single prospect before TC? Once they make the team, he deals with them but until then it's Chuck Fletcher and the scouting staff that evaluates them and it's ultimately their call when they get signed.

[Friesen, Hedstrom and Kunitz could be gone come next season, Konopka could very well center the 4th line next season. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if Burke doesn't make any UFA moves to fill those spots.

These are the facts:
1) Konopka is a Burke-type of player
2) Konopka has already played in Ducks and has shown grittyness, leadership and surprising offensive touch
3) Konopka will be cheap (league minimum most likely)

Why would Burke want to outbid the rest of the league for some UFA who might upset the chemistry when he has a excellent candidate waiting in the wings??
This is where you lose me. Brian Burke is not going to sit on his hands this summer and just promote one of his AHL stars to fill a top 6 vacancy. Zenon Konopka, if he's on this team, will be a fourth line grinder. I don't want to hear about his AHL numbers and what type of player he is. I've seen guys like Z for many years and they come and go, he's nothing special I'm sorry. I hate that I'm ragging on him so much but to honestly think this guy will be inserted rather than sign someone like Anson Carter or Jamie Langenbrunner is insulting.



Since you're obviously only trying to start a pissing match to create some 'credibility' here, I'm not gonna take your bragging too seriously. Let's just say that at the age of 9 I had been skating with a hockey stick for 6 years already...

btw, you're right, media guides and statistics books are useless. I don't know if you were being sarcastic there or not but if you really think media guides give you some hockey knowledge you're in for a rude surprise at some point. Collect them? Oh boy.

I'm not starting to start a "pissing match" I was merely stating, yes through sarcasim, that I know what the hell I'm talking about. Hockey has been my hobbie and passion since I was little. Yes I collect media guides, Ducks media guides at least. I love stats and if you think looking up stats is useless you have just proven to me that you don't know what your talking about. I don't make up my arguements out of thin air, I study stats and watch the game intently.

But since now this arguement is going to turn into computerized shouting match, I'm done talking about Zenon Konopka and Shane O'Brien until they have contracts.

2) O'Brien is a VERY physical d-man with a killer shot. Has racked up some serious points in Portland (much more than Smid & Kondratiev). Can also play in several different roles from PP QB to 7th d-man. Kinda like Sean O'Donnell but with a very cheap contract and much better offensive skills.


OB also played some games as a forward when the Pirates were riddled with injuries

Andy, Perry, Getzlaf, and Kunitz aren't natural goal scorers?

Andy? No.
Perry? Time will tell
Getzlaf? Time will tell
Kunitz? Hell no.

I'm asking this in all sincerity but where did you play and whom did you play with?

Top junior league in Finland, same organisation where Jere Lehtinen played (tho he was 1 year older than me so we didn't play in the same team except in practises sometime).

Anyhow, I would catagorize Kunie as a smallish, finesse type player even though yes he is gritty and can be physical.

gritty and physical finesse player...ummmm okay...

But you haven't given me any justification on why he's not a 1st liner and should be a 3rd liner. He scored more goals than anyone on our third line and only Lupul scored more on a lower line and that's just because he's a RW. He very well can do even better next year, so the probability of him getting traded is unfounded.

He scored more than anyone on our 3rd line because he played with Teemu and Andy and our 3rd line is full of defensive-oriented grinders like Pahlsson.

There's a good chance that once he doesn't play on the 1st line he won't score more than 10 goals. Would you be willing to trade him then?

A rookie is still a rookie.

See this is why I just can't take you seriously. When you make blanket statesment like that you're only seeing things in black & white missing all the shades of gray and thus limiting your ability to make logical conclusions/assumptions.

Technically a rookie is still a rookie, in reality there's a hell of lot more than just being a rookie.

Example: Brian Rafalski and Marek Zidilcky were rookies when they entered the NHL despite being 26y old and having 7 pro-seasons behind them playing 30 mins a night. In your books they are on the same level as a 18y USHL player who has played zero pro-games and zero games against veteran opponents.

Again. But the point you seemed to have been making was guys like Lupul and Getzlaf stayed on because we didn't have any other rookies fighting for spots, we did. In 03 it came down to Lupul or Getz to make the team.

The point was that back then we didn't have so many young players/rookies in the team already as we do now.

I didn't say that, what I meant was they are responsible for imforming the GM and coaches who's good and woh deserves a shot. Do you think Burke watches every single prospect before TC? Once they make the team, he deals with them but until then it's Chuck Fletcher and the scouting staff that evaluates them and it's ultimately their call when they get signed.

Burke WILL watch every single prospect on training camp and more importantly CARLYLE will watch every single prospect on training camp. Scouting staff won't tell Burke who will make the team and who won't, that's a FACT. Their opinion is asked naturally but ultimately it's Burke and Carlyle who make the call who makes the team.

Don't even try to argue with that.

This is where you lose me. Brian Burke is not going to sit on his hands this summer and just promote one of his AHL stars to fill a top 6 vacancy.

Wait, where did I say Burke will promote one of the AHL stars to top6 job?? Please give me the EXACT quote where I said it, otherwise admit that I never said that.

Zenon Konopka, if he's on this team, will be a fourth line grinder.

Maybe you should REALLY start paying attention, nobody has penciled him on the top2 lines, everyone has been penciling Z to 4th line with occasional 3rd line duty.

Why the hell are you even arguing about that??

I hate that I'm ragging on him so much but to honestly think this guy will be inserted rather than sign someone like Anson Carter or Jamie Langenbrunner is insulting.

The only thing insulting here is the lack of attention you're paying.

And for the record I will much rather have Z on 4th line making 450K than Langenbrunner and his ~2M contract he will most likely get. Carter is going nowhere from Canucks.

I'm really done arguing about this because we are never going to see eye to eye about it and that's fine but I'm tried of getting worked up over an arguement with someone from my computer. I would love to discuss this stuff in person during TC if you fancy it.

But I had to point out one last thing

Wait, where did I say Burke will promote one of the AHL stars to top6 job?? Please give me the EXACT quote where I said it, otherwise admit that I never said that.

These are the facts:
1) Konopka is a Burke-type of player
2) Konopka has already played in Ducks and has shown grittyness, leadership and surprising offensive touch
3) Konopka will be cheap (league minimum most likely)

Why would Burke want to outbid the rest of the league for some UFA who might upset the chemistry when he has a excellent candidate waiting in the wings?

Is that not what you meant? What's interesting though is a month ago you were eager to trade Lupes and Jiggy to get Richards. Wouldn't that potentially upset the chemistry? I don't mean to keep the wound open but I don't like being called a liar.

And for the record I will much rather have Z on 4th line making 450K than Langenbrunner and his ~2M contract he will most likely get. Carter is going nowhere from Canucks.

Oh and I can assure you that you are in the minority in this previous statement. What's the point of having cap space if you aren't going to spend it on proven, NHL talent with championship experience. Last I checked Langenbrunner was the leading scoring when the Devils beat us in 03. Hmmm, 4th line grinder or 2nd line scorer with a Cup ring????? That's tough. But hey at least we'd save 1.5 mil right? It's not like the salary cap is going up or anything.(yes more sarcasim)

[QUOTE=TheJoeMan]Andy, Perry, Getzlaf, and Kunitz aren't natural goal scorers? QUOTE]

I'm sorry but Pepper is right, Teemu and Lupul are the only ones. Andymac isn't, that's the only thing keeping him from being an elite center. Perry, no where close IMO, honestly I think he's miles behind getzlaf. Kunitz, no way in hell, I don't think he ever will be. Getzlaf is my favorite player on the Ducks, and probably the closest one out of the ones you mentioned IMO, but he's still not there, yet.

How many natural goal scorer does Edmonton have? None. What's the point?

I'm really done arguing about this because we are never going to see eye to eye about it and that's fine but I'm tried of getting worked up over an arguement with someone from my computer. I would love to discuss this stuff in person during TC if you fancy it.

Fine my me.


But I had to point out one last thing

Is that not what you meant? What's interesting though is a month ago you were eager to trade Lupes and Jiggy to get Richards. Wouldn't that potentially upset the chemistry? I don't mean to keep the wound open but I don't like being called a liar.

If we need someone on our 3rd or especially 4th line to replace holes left by Hedstrom & Friesen, we have capable players in Portland which we can use for less money and knowing fully what we're getting, I don't think Burke has to sign an UFA for our bottom 2 lines.

Earlier I did call for trading Lupul and Giguere for Richards to give us more offensive depth upfront but with Richards' new contract, obviously I wouldn't do it anymore.

2 totally different issues. Z for bottom 2 lines, UFA/trade for top 2 lines.

Oh and I can assure you that you are in the minority in this previous statement. What's the point of having cap space if you aren't going to spend it on proven, NHL talent with championship experience. Last I checked Langenbrunner was the leading scoring when the Devils beat us in 03. Hmmm, 4th line grinder or 2nd line scorer with a Cup ring????? That's tough. But hey at least we'd save 1.5 mil right? It's not like the salary cap is going up or anything.(yes more sarcasim)

Sorry, you just keep digging your hole. You do NOT sign a 2M+ player like Langenbrunner to play 8-12 mins on your 4th line. I'll say it right here: Zenon is a much better fit to our 4th line than Langenbrunner. I was filling a 4th line spot with a player who can do that job extremely well while having enough upside to play on 3rd line as well. Langenbrunner is *NOT* a player like that. If you want to sign Langenbrunner for our top2 lines, that's a whole different issue.

Btw, Langenbrunner plays center/rw so I don't quite see how you would fit him to our line-up anyway.

How many natural goal scorer does Edmonton have? None. What's the point?

What's the point? Do we need one? This was not about how many natural goal scorers you need to be successful, this was about whether Kunitz is one.

What's the point? Do we need one? This was not about how many natural goal scorers you need to be successful, this was about whether Kunitz is one.

I thought it was about signing Konopka and O'Brien.

I thought it was about signing Konopka and O'Brien.

the thread was, but someone made a comment asking if some certain players were natural goal scorers or not. We just answered that question that's all.

Good read from AHL.com on Konopka and the Pirates:

http://www.theahl.com/AHL/OnTheBeat/2006/06/02/1611545.html

Now, as he is about to become a restricted free agent, Konopka will certainly receive the qualifying offer that enables the soaring Ducks to retain his rights. An added attraction for the team will no doubt be the fact that, as a 25-year-old who has only had an NHL deal for two years, Konopka doesn't have to clear waivers to be sent down.

His odds of starting next season with the parent club would seem remote. The Ducks, already set down the middle, are now rumored to be targeting free-agent Joe Sakic this summer.

"All they said to me was they're happy with the year I had and they're going to contact me soon about a contract," said Konopka

His odds of starting next season with the parent club would seem remote. The Ducks, already set down the middle, are now rumored to be targeting free-agent Joe Sakic this summer.

Say what? Rumored from where?

Say what? Rumored from where?

Don't kill the messenger. ;) I was just quoting the article.

Say what? Rumored from where?

Remember that Don Brennan writes for the same paper that employs Bruce Garrioch...All he has to do is to lean over to Garrioch's cubicle and learn all the 'hot' and oh-so-reliable rumors going around...

Remember that Don Brennan writes for the same paper that employs Bruce Garrioch...All he has to do is to lean over to Garrioch's cubicle and learn all the 'hot' and oh-so-reliable rumors going around...

and garrioch probably uses mcsorley as his source. just because ol marty thought it might be a good idea to see sakic and blake in anaheim. BTW just met mcsorley at C.R.H.C. in Irvine. nice guy, not a whole lot going on upstairs.

Good read from AHL.com on Konopka and the Pirates:

http://www.theahl.com/AHL/OnTheBeat/2006/06/02/1611545.html

Now, as he is about to become a restricted free agent, Konopka will certainly receive the qualifying offer that enables the soaring Ducks to retain his rights. An added attraction for the team will no doubt be the fact that, as a 25-year-old who has only had an NHL deal for two years, Konopka doesn't have to clear waivers to be sent down.

His odds of starting next season with the parent club would seem remote. The Ducks, already set down the middle, are now rumored to be targeting free-agent Joe Sakic this summer.

"All they said to me was they're happy with the year I had and they're going to contact me soon about a contract," said Konopka

No way do the Ducks go after Sakic. Unfortunately I don't think Z will be in a Ducks uniform next year, since we are already set at the position, but IMO, he should definitely be our 4th line center.

Good read from AHL.com on Konopka and the Pirates:

http://www.theahl.com/AHL/OnTheBeat/2006/06/02/1611545.html

Now, as he is about to become a restricted free agent, Konopka will certainly receive the qualifying offer that enables the soaring Ducks to retain his rights. An added attraction for the team will no doubt be the fact that, as a 25-year-old who has only had an NHL deal for two years, Konopka doesn't have to clear waivers to be sent down.



Under the terms of the CBA he should be a group VI UFA...but it sounds like he will be a RFA for some reason...good news!