[Football] Bundesliga draft

Draft order

1st round
1- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Ballack (Bayern Munich)
2- Juni : Klose (Bremen)
3- PK : Van Der Vaart (Hamburg)
4- O=S : Makaay (Bayern)
5- Les Habs : Berbatov (Leverkusen)
6- The Rage/Evilo : Van Buyten (Hamburg)

2nd round
7- The Rage/Evilo : Bordon (Schalke)
8- Les Habs : Boulahrouz (Hamburg)
9- O=S : Sagnol (Bayern)
10- PK : Borowski (Bremen)
11- Juni : Micoud (Bremen)
12- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Podolski (Koln)

3rd round
13- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Lucio (Bayern)
14- Juni : Ismael (Bayern)
15- PK : Lahm (Bayern)
16- O=S : Lincoln (Schalke)
17- Les Habs : Dede (Dortmund)
18- The Rage/Evilo : Altintop (Kaiserslautern)

4th round
19- The Rage/Evilo : Rosicky (Dortmund)
20- Les Habs : Marcelinho (Berlin)
21- O=S : Demichelis (Bayern)
22- PK : Frings (Bremen)
23- Juni : Schweinsteiger (Bayern)
24- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Vittek (Nurnberg)

5th round
25- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Friedrich (Berlin)
26- Juni : Kehl (Dortmund)
27- PK : Worns (Dortmund)
28- O=S : Krstajic (Schalke)
29- Les Habs : Barbarez (Hamburg)
30- The Rage/Evilo : Poulsen (Schalke)

6th round
31- The Rage/Evilo : Asamoah (Schalke)
32- Les Habs : Basturk (Berlin)
33- O=S : Kuranyi (Schalke)
34- PK : Klasnic (Bremen)
35- Juni : Naldo (Bremen)
36- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Schneider (Leverkusen)

7th round
37- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Trochowski (Hamburg)
38- Juni : Pizarro (Bayern)
39- PK : Mertesacker (Hannover)
40- O=S : De Jong (Hamburg)
41- Les Habs : Meira (Stuttgart)
42- The Rage/Evilo : Neuville (Gladbach)

8th round
43- The Rage/Evilo : Kringe (Dortmund)
44- Les Habs : Rafinha (Schalke)
45- O=S : Metzelder (Dortmund)
46- PK : Mahdavikia (Hamburg)
47- Juni : Barnetta (Leverkusen)
48- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Fahrenhorst (Bremen)

9th round
49- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Jansen (Gladbach)
50- Juni : Rodriguez (Schalke)
51- PK : Pantelic (Berlin)
52- O=S : Friedrich (Mainz)
53- Les Habs : Rolfes (Leverkusen)
54- The Rage/Evilo : Fathi (Berlin)

10th round
55- The Rage/Evilo : Cherundolo (Hannover)
56- Les Habs : Hildebrand (Stuttgart)
57- O=S : Ze Roberto (Bayern)
58- PK : Enke (Hannover)
59- Juni : Owomoyela (Bremen)
60- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Meier (Frankfurt)

11th round
61- Flyhigh/Belizarius : Kahn (Bayern)
62- Juni : Wiese (Bremen)
63- PK : Hinkel (Stuttgart)
64- O=S : Weidenfeller (Dortmund)
65- Les Habs : Ernst (Schalke)
66- The Rage/Evilo :

JUDGES : Bakos, Karpa32 and GB. I remind everyone that judges CAN give advices to anyone.

Great! I'm really looking forward to see the Bundesliga draft. Hey guys, if any of y'all have questions feel free to ask me (via PM.) Several great sites are only useful to you, if you can read German. :)

Can´t wait to see who gets picked in the later rounds :)

If you dunno what to do...you know the way to ask for help :)

I don't know what to do past the first round really... ;)

I don't know what to do past the first round really... ;)

No french guys left ? :D ;)

Mathieu Beda is french and he should be available in round 2 ;) :sarcasm: (just kidding)

Overall it´ll be interesting to see from round 5/6 on.
The top is pretty clear (depends on what you want to build your team around), but later there might be some good names available who are underachieving and some nice hidden secrets.
I´m excited to see who´ll find one of those secrets :handclap:

No french guys left ? :D ;)

Mathieu Beda is french and he should be available in round 2 ;) :sarcasm: (just kidding)
Well, there's a french guy asking to play for the german NT... :)
And you should know I'm not particularly biased towards french players, but I'm biased towards L1 players. That's according to the rumor. :sarcasm:

Well, there's a french guy asking to play for the german NT... :)
And you should know I'm not particularly biased towards french players, but I'm biased towards L1 players. That's according to the rumor. :sarcasm:

There are some more, but since i was joking, i assumed (for the joke), that you´re going to expect that midfielder + the RB + the CB to get picked in round one and that there´d be no french guy left (atleast in league one - Jonathan Jäger, Chedli Amri, Aimen Demai and others toil in the 2.Bundesliga and especially those three do well down there).

I'm quite excited by this one moreso than the Serie A and La Liga drafts, got some ideas of where I'm headed but we'll see how it goes.

There are some more, but since i was joking, i assumed (for the joke), that you´re going to expect that midfielder + the RB + the CB to get picked in round one and that there´d be no french guy left (atleast in league one - Jonathan Jäger, Chedli Amri, Aimen Demai and others toil in the 2.Bundesliga and especially those three do well down there).
Seriously, I expect no french guy to be taken in the first round.
I see two midfielders and one striker going in the top 3, and after that, it's less clear to me, I think it could go any way. So I guess two frenchies could be taken, but I'm not sure I'd do.

One of the french wouldn´t be a mistake in round 1 :)

Wow we are picking 1st... well i have an obvious choice but I'm going to PM FlyHigh just in case... :)

Overall it´ll be interesting to see from round 5/6 on.
The top is pretty clear (depends on what you want to build your team around), but later there might be some good names available who are underachieving and some nice hidden secrets.
I´m excited to see who´ll find one of those secrets :handclap:

Yep, for me, there is no conscious number one pick and it will really depend on your overall tactical lineup. Several good players have had a good summer-fall season, while others really improved in the winter-spring season.

I see two midfielders and one striker going in the top 3

Hmm.
One striker...going by reputation or going by performance ?

I do have two strikers on my radar who´d go there reputation-wise, but since we´re cutting it down to the play of this season another striker should be considered here (he´s well known too, but not that hyped around these boards - i doubt i´ve ever read his name here).
That striker made his first steps in the Bundesliga for my favorite team - enough for a hint :D

but since we´re cutting it down to the play of this season
We're not.
I think it's been clear enough that we're drafting according to the last few seasons, with a stress on recent form obviously.
Otherwise Ribéry should have been 1st overall in the L1 draft.

We're not.
I think it's been clear enough that we're drafting according to the last few seasons, with a stress on recent form obviously.
Otherwise Ribéry should have been 1st overall in the L1 draft.

Umm - must have missed that, so good to have it clear cut here.

My initial thought about taking just this season into consideration is that it´s hard to compare a new player like X with a guy who´s playing in the Bundesliga for years.
To get it absolutely clear cut: shall i take Xs performance in other league into consideration too or just the recent Bundesliga performances ?
That might change the judgement of some players for sure.

Please do not mention any names.

To get it absolutely clear cut: shall i take Xs performance in other league into consideration too or just the recent Bundesliga performances ?Yes imo. (not only for X, of course :innocent: )

Please do not mention any names.Anyone can ask advices through PMs to judges as well, so i don't think that's a problem anymore.. or is it?

Please do not mention any names.

Huh :dunno:
Is there any connection to good/bad performance ? No.

To get everyone satisfied :dunce: , again:

My initial thought about taking just this season into consideration is, that it´s hard to compare a new player with a guy who´s playing in the Bundesliga for years.
To get it absolutely clear cut: shall i take his performance in other league into consideration too or just the recent Bundesliga performances ?
That might change the judgement of some players for sure.

Yes imo. (not only for X, of course :innocent: )

Ok - strange, but way to late to start a discussion about that. Next time ;) :D

I edited a few posts...
Just in case someone would forget about a certain player, no need to remind him...

Ill be following this draft as my knowlegde of the Bundesliga aint bad but it will get better with this draft.

FlyHigh didn't answered my PM... I don't want to make a 1st overall pick without his advice... If he agrees with my proposal he'll make the pick later... if not I'll do it tomorrow morning... :)

Sorry I was in school, we will take Michael Ballack.

and with him off the board, I will take Werder Bremen and Germany striker Miroslav Klose. A proven goalscorer for club and country, he'll give my team an immediate goalscoring threat.

Ballack - the obvious choice.

Klose - some might say early, but imo he belongs to round 1. He´s skilled, he´s shooting left and right/taking headers, he´s aggressive on the forecheck, he´s agile, he´s a good passer and creates lots of chances for others and last but not least: he´s scoring if a solid/good team is around him.
I really like that selection (and that is without homerism about him starting his career at my favorite club and Klose being a season tickets holder for that club).

Van der Vaart - i though he´d be gone with the 2nd overall pick cause reputation-wise he´s ahead of Miro Klose. Good pick here too.

Wow...I thought that the VdV hype was big enough to see him picked first overall. Those three were also my top choices prior to the draft. Klose has developed into a really nice striker this season. Only in the last two or three games he wasn't as effective as before.

Van der Vart has had some issues with injuries and has slowed down a little, but overall you gotta recognize that this guy has put the HSV back among the top BL clubs.

OT: Bakos, do think that the FCK will stay in the BL?

OT: Bakos, do think that the FCK will stay in the BL?

Yes and No. My brain says they´ll get relegated, but my heart says they´ll stay cause who cares about Wolfsburg ? ;)
It all comes down to the game of Wolfsburg against Stuttgart this weekend. If Stuttgart wins, then we´ll see a final with Kaiserslautern at Wolfsburg on game day 34. Problem: we all know Stuttgart and they might win 5-0 or lose 0-5. Everything´s possible.

IMO Kaiserslautern will win thatgame. If you´ve seen the team fight of the 'FCK Bubis' in the last games and seen Wolfsburg playing very very poor - obviously they´re frightend to get relegated while the youngsters of Kaiserslautern have nothing left to lose.

I'm pulling for the Red Devils that's for sure, because I (FCE) want to play against you rather than Wolfsburg. :handclap:

I'm pulling for the Red Devils that's for sure, because I (FCE) want to play against you rather than Wolfsburg. :handclap:

Who wants to play against them at all ?
They managed to bring 21,436 guys into their new arena at a derby against Hannover ? Hilarious....

Just what the president of Mainz 05 said: he´d rather have games (i.e. derbies) against the 'hated friends' of Kaiserslautern and Frankfurt instead of paying someone to watch the game against Wolfsburg.
I tend to disagree with everything that comes straight out of Mainz, but he´s right all the way in this case.

btw: I´m sure EC will get promoted. They´re four points ahead which should be enough.

Crap.. Why couldn't vdV drop just one spot more..

Either way, I select what's arguably the biggest name in terms of reputation in the Bundesliga; Roy Makaay

Crap.. Why couldn't vdV drop just one spot more..

Either way, I select what's arguably the biggest name in terms of reputation in the Bundesliga; Roy Makaay

Can´t argue with the pick.
He´s going through a big slump every here and then, but when he´s hot about nothing is able to stop him.
The only downgrade is that he´s plunging a lot and is often not integrated in the game. On the other hand he doesn´t need to be in the game to score two goals just out of nothing.

I'll take Dimitar Berbartov

I'll take Dimitar Berbartov

Another good pick. Depending on personal preference you really can´t go wrong with each of of the last four picks (and Ballack was pretty obvious).

Berbatov is one of the best strikers for years. He´s the allround package like Klose, although he´s missing the passing skills Klose has. He´s a slightly better finisher than Klose.

What, Joris Van Hout is still on the board? Shocking!


:biglaugh:

Actually i doubt he´s eligible for this draft since Joris Van Hout is playing in the 2.Bundesliga for Bochum. ;)

Actually i doubt he´s eligible for this draft since Joris Van Hout is playing in the 2.Bundesliga for Bochum. ;)

He's good enough to be picked anyway! :yo:


Seriously I never understood what people see in this guy...

When Anderlecht signed him (beating of competition from Bruges nota bene) from Mechelen I was stunned, he's completely useless. Obviously he never really played and then he got a relatively big money transfer to Germany... confusing for me to say the least. Although I do think he's a better fit for the more physical German leagues... but still.

When Anderlecht signed him (beating of competition from Bruges nota bene) from Mechelen I was stunned, he's completely useless. Obviously he never really played and then he got a relatively big money transfer to Germany... confusing for me to say the least. Although I do think he's a better fit for the more physical German leagues... but still.

Agreed - rest via PM, can´t answer here right now (would take too many eligible names) ;)

We'll claim the best center defense of the draft right now by taking Daniel Van Buyten and Bordon.

Whoa Evilo is fixing the mortar.

Very nice selections. Van Buyten has been nothing but rock solid for the HSV this season, while Bordon is solid as usual.

Whoa Evilo is fixing the mortar.

Very nice selections. Van Buyten has been nothing but rock solid for the HSV this season, while Bordon is solid as usual.

Agreed - you can´t top that CB duo. There´s one combination that might be equal to that duo on a very, very good day.
There´s just one little downgrade on Bordon, since he´s taking some free kicks all season longs but he´s just able to get about 3 balls out 25 tries on the net in a season.


Good to see that nobody went off the board in the 1st round so far.

Here I'm looking at this draft and wondering who I'll pick when it's my turn. Well it is my turn. :blush: Just got home from work though. Besides, half of you are sleeping. :innocent:

I'll go with Khalid Boulahrouz of HSV

I'll go with Khalid Boulahrouz of HSV

Another good selection. Very aggressive CB and a cornerstone for your team for sure.

Areas he needs to imrpove a little to take the next step: first pass, since he´s just taking the safe one right now (which isn´t bad). He´s been lucky this season so far with fouls (injured Vata of Bielefeld and made two other pretty hard fouls who could´ve brought him a red card in the same game, not necessarily, but maybe) and touching balls with his hands (did touch the ball twice against Cologne, but the ref didn´t see it all).

Aside from that he´s one of the top two shutdown CB (the other is still unpicked) and he´s young so i´d expect him to improve in the above mentioned areas.

Meh, I missed out on both my first picks..

I pick Willy Sagnol..

Best RB that´s been available.

Give me Werder's Tim Borowski.

:yo:

Versatile, very hard shot, creative - the complete allround package. Reminds me in many ways of Ballack although he´s not that strong on headers but is looking a bit better when passing.

PK´s gone until Sunday. Got a list from him and i´ll pick for him until he´s back.

Coupla nice picks above me there, both were high on my lists.

Right now I'll take Johan Micoud, still one of the finest playmakers in the country, and indeed Europe.

Right now I'll take Johan Micoud, still one of the finest playmakers in the country, and indeed Europe.

Agreed - just want to add one of the most classic playmakers. :)

But a weird mind.
And as inconsistant as possible.

With our next pick, we'll take Lukas Podolski, I should have the next one shortly, I need to send Beli a PM because Sagnol was one of our targets.

Love Micoud personally (I picked him up in the last draft).

I've got a soft spot for incredibly talented players with weird minds or consistency problems (see also: Basler, Mario or Valeron, Juan Carlos).

And as inconsistant as possible.

Not in the Bundesliga for sure. He´s been really steady since he´s been with Werder.


Lukas Podolski

Not a bad pick.

Not in the Bundesliga for sure. He´s been really steady since he´s been with Werder.
So we hear in France.
But I've become frustrated with him, either with Bordeaux or with the national team.
The guy could be all over the place one game, and then disappear the next game.

So we hear in France.
But I've become frustrated with him, either with Bordeaux or with the national team.
The guy could be all over the place one game, and then disappear the next game.

But not here. Really consistent performance all year. It´s not that he doesn´t have bad games here and then, but it´s not Grade A- followed by a F, a B and a E- or something like that.

He started off this year with: 3, 3.5, 3, 2, 4, 3, 3, 3, 5.5, 2, 4, 3, 2.5, 2, 1.5, 2, 4, 3, 3, 5, 3.5, 2, 4, 5 (got injured in that game and sbustituted early), 2, 4, 1.5, 4, 2.5, 2

1= Grade A, 6 = Grade F

But a weird mind.

Yeah. I think he grabbed somebody you know where last week. :amazed:

Well, let's just say that my well known bias doesn't work for Micoud, nor Makelele (and there are others).

Not a bad pick.

He scored 10 goals so far with Cologne who are pretty bad I believe and he's also one of Germany's rising stars, we should have our next pick shortly.

We talked and FlyHigh and me agreed on our next pick :
CB Lucio from Bayern. :)

and now I'll take who I consider to be one of the better central defenders left on the board, when on his game, unintentionally keeping up the Bremen connection by selecting Valerien Ismael

Valerien Ismael
Another guy my bias doesn't work on.
He's been a solid but really just above average defenseman throughout his career.
I can't understand how he suddenly looks like (according to reports) a premier defenseman in Germany.

He scored 10 goals so far with Cologne who are pretty bad I believe and he's also one of Germany's rising stars, we should have our next pick shortly.


Not a bad pick at all if you´re lining him up at the right place ;)

We talked and FlyHigh and me agreed on our next pick :
CB Lucio from Bayern. :)

Not a fan of Lucio, but when he´s at his best then the going gets tough for the opponent. I´d have to admit that i haven´t seen that often since he joined Bayern.

Not a bad one, but not great either.

Valerien Ismael

Another guy my bias doesn't work on.
He's been a solid but really just above average defenseman throughout his career.
I can't understand how he suddenly looks like (according to reports) a premier defenseman in Germany.

Well, sometimes soccer isn´t easy to understand. When Ismael joined Bremen he´s been given the change to prove himself. He´s been the leader of the defense immediately. He´s been that aggressive and steady at the same time and chipping in with nice offense every here and then you´d have to wonder: where the hell did that come from ? It doesn´t matter at all, but the game he played in Bremen was often an A+ and nothing else.
Sometimes players are going to turn their career around like some youngsters are wasting the early talent they´ve shown.

Right now at Bayern Ismael slowed down a bit, played a way more defensive game. The reports aren´t that well (cause of the lacking leadership in a team full of leaders and missing offense), but overall he´s still one of the better CBs in the Bundesliga.

Well Ismael got plenty of chances. He was the leader of Strasbourg and Lens defenses for years.
But he never was anything special.

Well Ismael got plenty of chances. He was the leader of Strasbourg and Lens defenses for years.
But he never was anything special.

Yeah - but in Bremen he´s been the leader and a superb one too.

It´s the different story but just with a dissapointing end: Lilian Laslandes and his stint in Cologne. Laslandes sucked big time here and Laslandes was still available to score 10 goals for Nizza two years later.
Rigobert Song wasn´t a big success in the same year for Cologne, too.

Sometimes you can´t understand why players aren´t performing or performing like they 'invented' soccer (take that with a grain of salt, please).

Ismaël's regressed a bit in his second season in Bremen, but he's bounced back in 05/06 According to a big German soccer mag he's currently the 6th best defenseman/ back out there.

I even missed out on a player you really love: Cris :D
You know the story ;)

Ismaël's regressed a bit in his second season in Bremen

Right, but there´s been some major changes in the defense between season 1&2 and that has created problems. Can´t go further into details here without naming lots of players who´re still unpicked.

Bakos, I think PK sent you a list, and he's up in both leagues.
So if you could save us some time and post his picks, we could move on.

Oh - didn´t see that PKs up.

PK selects:

Philipp Lahm (Bayern Munich)

Bakos, I think PK sent you a list, and he's up in both leagues.
So if you could save us some time and post his picks, we could move on.

I don´t have a list for the EPL draft, though.

I'll pick Lincoln of Schalke 04 and possible Ballack replacement for Bayern.

Lahm - struggled a bit after the injuries he had to overcome, but still a good choice. His strength is the offense and driving to the net. Agile and versatile enough to play both sides (although he´s better suited for the left side). Not a big guy, but hasn´t had big problems handling strikers with size so far (surprisingly).

Lincoln - not a guy i personally like since he left Kaiserslautern because he´s been 'homesick' and played just 6 games in that season just to leave for Schalke (a, that´s homesick... :snide: ), but i can´t deny his talent, playmaking skills and skills with the ball.
Is able to shoot excellent free kicks, has a nice shot and his passing are 1st class (atleast in the Bundesliga).
The only downgrade is that he´s dissapearing every here and then and not defensively sound, but a kick in the *** can do wonders for him (see the blocked shot against Sevilla in the UEFA-Cup).

Lincoln is a solid pick at this point, but the same can't be said about Lahm. The young German has potential and has played some good soccer in the past, but he has trouble to regain his form. Overall he's not a bad a choice, but (IMO) at this point of the draft he's.

Lincoln is a solid pick at this point, but the same can't be said about Lahm. The young German has potential and has played some good soccer in the past, but he has trouble to regain his form. Overall he's not a bad a choice, but (IMO) at this point of the draft he's.

Hmm - for the LB position i don´t see another outstanding position. There are two guys who could be considered here too, but both do have a big, outstanding weakness. Leaving the injury aside, Lahm is still a solid pick when he´s in shape.
He hasn´t been substituted for a while and re-gaining his form. Not at 100% now, but i´d pick him over 3/4 of all others LBs in the Bundesliga though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpgKBDfpNJs&search=lincoln%20schalke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22pwN6xQAbo&search=lincoln

Some nice ones from Lincoln.

I'll take Dede of Dortmund

We'll pick Altintop and Rosicky.

Les Habs up again!

We'll pick Altintop

I'm sure I know, but you may want to specify which one.

Les Habs up again!

I'll go before too long, but I have to make a choice between guys so bear with me.

I'll go with Halil Altintop. JUST KIDDING E! :D

I'll take Hertha's Marcelinho. Hmmm. Wonder if judges will notice my swapping Marcel with Ronald. :D

I'll take Munchen's Demichelis..

Evilo better hurry or he may be stuck with a certain Altintop he didn't want.

Obviously Halil

Some weird picks here:

- Dede: Oh man, he has been nowhere the level he was once on for two seasons and counting. Be sure to get a few minus points from me for putting him in your starting line up.

- Rosicky: Oh man O, he's not been playing up to his potential in the BL for the second season in a row.Still you can see that the skill is there, but he simply can't showcase it.

- Marcelinho: He has been Hertha's enigma this season. On the first glance you may think that he enjoyed a good season, but he has been invisble during the tough stretches for Berlin. Still he's Mr. Hertha and will always play. I like him better than Rosicky.

- Demichelis: Great pick. He has really started to play top notched soccer this season and he has been on the best defensive midfielders in Germany. You can also put him on defence. Great pick Otty. :handclap:

- Altintop: Great value for that pick. I'll leave the judgment to my man in K'lautern to judge this pick. Bakos... ;)

I like Marcelinho, but he doesn't fit my needs : passing.

Most of the good passers are gone and only the 1B talent is left right. I see two solid passers in the pool, but one of them is rather unknown. The best central midfielders are gone for the most part (I think.)

Some weird picks here:

- Dede: Oh man, he has been nowhere the level he was once on for two seasons and counting. Be sure to get a few minus points from me for putting him in your starting line up.

- Marcelinho: He has been Hertha's enigma this season. On the first glance you may think that he enjoyed a good season, but he has been invisble during the tough stretches for Berlin. Still he's Mr. Hertha and will always play. I like him better than Rosicky.

Dede serves a purpose for me. He was just linked with clubs like Barça a year or so ago.

Marcelinho is still having a good season for me. Not up to his usual standard of course, but still better than most. I think he'll fit into my lineup well and will bring goals (as he has this season and in the past). Only saw the highlights today, but he looked good in a big win.

Most of the good passers are gone and only the 1B talent is left right. I see two solid passers in the pool, but one of them is rather unknown. The best central midfielders are gone for the most part (I think.)

Might have one in mind, but he's rather unfamiliar to most, I think. Best one left IMO though..

I still have one better option for LB available and one that´s more promising than Dede. Dede is still sold, but his offense is out of the game for most of the time.
So-so pick.

Altintop: Tremendous in keeping the ball, tremendous actions with the ball and more of a counter striker. Shoots hard with right and left foot. Not a passing striker at all. Pretty good understanding of the game and a gamebreaker who´s able to create chances himself. If this selection is good or not so good is really depending on the system you´re going to play in the end.

Rosicky vs. Marcelinho: For me it´s the other way round. Rosicky isn´t in tremendous shape, but when you´re out in the market for a playmaker, then he´s the guy you should take. Marcelinho is just going to take balls, keep them, run with them and shoot them himself. If he´s out of shape, then you´re playing with just ten guys on the pitch (and he´s been out of shape for about 60% of the season). The last 5-10 games showed a better Rosicky then the last 1.5 years did while Marcelinho has had troubles in all parts: private life, discussions with officials/his coach etc.
I like the Rosicky pick more than the Marcelinho one - better for the 'team' in each way aside except scoring where Marcelinho gets the edge.

Demichelis - Versatile guy, playing like a quarterback. Often used as a DM, but he´s been used on numerous occassions as a CB (today for example). Good pick.

Selection for PK:

Torsten Frings (Werder Bremen)

Solid selection. Gives a lot of possibilities in midfield and won´t hurt any team wherever you´re lining him up. Not the best ball handler nor does he have superb passing skills. Most areas in his game are solid. His strength are his shot and feet, cause he´s working pretty hard in every game.
I just see one available guy who i´d taken over him when we´re talking about versatility (in midfield).

Surprisingly some CBs are dropping. I thought they´d be gone by now while i thought strikers might last a bit longer.

Rosicky vs. Marcelinho: For me it´s the other way round. Rosicky isn´t in tremendous shape, but when you´re out in the market for a playmaker, then he´s the guy you should take. Marcelinho is just going to take balls, keep them, run with them and shoot them himself. If he´s out of shape, then you´re playing with just ten guys on the pitch (and he´s been out of shape for about 60% of the season). The last 5-10 games showed a better Rosicky then the last 1.5 years did while Marcelinho has had troubles in all parts: private life, discussions with officials/his coach etc.
I like the Rosicky pick more than the Marcelinho one - better for the 'team' in each way aside except scoring where Marcelinho gets the edge.

I don't see how they're that comparable. I'd have them both in different positions. There is another guy that I let go who'd I take over each of them personally.

Marcelinho looked pretty good from what I saw. He was involved in at least one of the goals (maybe two).

Selection for PK:

Torsten Frings (Werder Bremen)

Solid selection. Gives a lot of possibilities in midfield and won´t hurt any team wherever you´re lining him up. Not the best ball handler nor does he have superb passing skills. Most areas in his game are solid. His strength are his shot and feet, cause he´s working pretty hard in every game.
I just see one available guy who i´d taken over him when we´re talking about versatility (in midfield).

Surprisingly some CBs are dropping. I thought they´d be gone by now while i thought strikers might last a bit longer.

He was on my list as a possible selection.

I don't see how they're that comparable. I'd have them both in different positions. There is another guy that I let go who'd I take over each of them personally.

Marcelinho looked pretty good from what I saw. He was involved in at least one of the goals (maybe two).


Grade from the kicker from gameday 16-24 (he missed gameday 17, though):

6
5
4.5
4.5
4.5
4
4.5
5.5

6= evil, 1= superb.

The numbers are still there (goals + assists), but he´s been awful most of the time. His grade over the season is 3,76.
Rosicky has a 3,31 with just 4 games of 4.5 or 5 (two each).
Marcelinho received 11 grades with 4.5 or less (5x 4.5; 4x 5; 1x 5.5; 1x6). Grades don´t tell everything, but the more steady player over the season was Rosicky (although his 5+5 don´t tell that).

Both Marcelinho and Rosicky are used as OM. Marcelinho is playing like a striker most of the time (due to not passing the ball) while Rosicky is a pure playmaker.

Grade from the kicker from gameday 16-24 (he missed gameday 17, though):

6
5
4.5
4.5
4.5
4
4.5
5.5

6= evil, 1= superb.

The numbers are still there (goals + assists), but he´s been awful most of the time. His grade over the season is 3,76.
Rosicky has a 3,31 with just 4 games of 4.5 or 5 (two each).
Marcelinho received 11 grades with 4.5 or less (5x 4.5; 4x 5; 1x 5.5; 1x6). Grades don´t tell everything, but the more steady player over the season was Rosicky (although his 5+5 don´t tell that).

Both Marcelinho and Rosicky are used as OM. Marcelinho is playing like a striker most of the time (due to not passing the ball) while Rosicky is a pure playmaker.

Wow, that's a rather selective way to choose your evidence. Rounds 16-24 only? You missed a number of 2 ratings he has. He also has 12 goals and 11 assists this season to Rosicky's 5 and 5. That's not to mention his output in previous seasons as this isn't a one season draft. Ratings are fine, but it's damn near impossible to go against 12 goals and 11 assists. Rosicky is rated ahead one guy in particular I'd take over him. Hell, he's even rated over VDV and I don't think you need to be a VDV fan to know who's been better this season.

He'll be able to make plays were I play him, but he won't be the only one if I get who I want. At the end of the day it's all about my final XI.

Hell, they even rate my boy Mahdavikia in the top ten strikers.

Juni's up, then Flyhigh/Beli twice and then Juni again.

Wow, that's a rather selective way to choose your evidence.

It´s just an example - not the whole story, but Marcelinho has dissapeared fro stretches, but those stretches weren´t as long as they were this year.
I didn´t miss any ratings btw. Round 17 has no rating since he didn´t play.
I can list all his numbers, but that won´t change a thing. Berlin played 11 times without a atleast decent go-to guy while Rosicky just had 4 games who´ve been rated sub-par. You can always question those ratings, but since i´m not able to upload all the game we have to go by this and even the Kicker won´t grade Marcelinho with a 4.5 when he´s been tremendous, so there´s some evidence for sure (you can read that in other newspapers as well and even Hertha thought - is still thinking - about not extending the contract)

If you´ve seen all his goals this year then you´d recognize that about 50% were different to the goals he scored in the previous years. He didn´t score them because of himself and his exceptional play, he´d rather got the ball and just had to put it over the line. He´s not as dominant he´s been before and that decline is obvious while Rosicky has never been the typical scorer, but he´s used to make plays for his wingers who´re crossing the balls and see a striker scoring - no assist for Rosicky in that case.

Marcelinho isn´t a bad selection, but his play and behaviour (team spirit etc) are getting worse each season and he´s never been the typical playmaker Evilo/TheRage obviously wanted and if i´m in the market for a playmaker, then i´d rather take the one from Dortmund than the selfish Berlin guy.

I'll take Bastian Schweinsteiger

"Schweini" had a tough season (on and off the field) and he seemed to have never found his game. You can't deny his talent, but overall I have to say that I don't really like this pick at this point.

Right now I see two good strikers and a CB in the draft who still have nice value.

"Schweini" had a tough season (on and off the field) and he seemed to have never found his game. You can't deny his talent, but overall I have to say that I don't really like this pick at this point.


I agree for most parts.
The only thing i slightly disagree is that i don´t see an outstanding player at all for the LM/LW position, so Schweinsteiger is even with a tough season still okay for that position.

@ E:
It´s Demichelis and not De Michelis ;)

I'll take Bastian Schweinsteiger

that was going to be our pick, we'll have our two shortly.

@ E:
It´s Demichelis and not De Michelis ;)
Corrected ;)

Just saw another small, but more important spelling error:

Haltintop :D

A mixture of Halil and Altintop, eh ? :)

Yep, that one's stupid.

I've pm'd Beli, if he doesn't reply in a few hours, I'll make the picks.

I answered more than 4 hours ago... :)

EDIT :
I agree on the F Robert Vittek pick, from Nuremberg.
For the 2nd choice, defense or not?

And it's impossible for you to pick Beli?
If you guys agreed through PM that is...

We had a few discussions for the 2nd pick... Don't know if we take the RM or go back to defense. :)

I answered more than 4 hours ago... :)

EDIT :
I agree on the F Robert Vittek pick, from Nuremberg.
For the 2nd choice, defense or not?

Umm, i'm not sure on this, can we consult first?

A very interesting selection. He come out of nowhere to keep the FCN from becoming a relegation candidate.

It will be really difficult to judge Vittek and Lahm or Schweinsteiger for example.

Okay, I'm alright with the Vittek pick after some thought, check my PM about the other guy.

A very interesting selection. He come out of nowhere to keep the FCN from becoming a relegation candidate.

It will be really difficult to judge Vittek and Lahm or Schweinsteiger for example.

He's still pretty young, 23 or 24 I think, so hopefully this is a sign of things to come from him. He's been on fire in the 2nd half.

Vittek - i was afraid of that pick since it´s damn hard judging him.

He´s on fire - i mean really on fire since January.
I´d even take him over my boy Klose since then.

Vittek is fast, he´s skilled, he´s got the nose you need to be a good striker and has passing skills plus an understanding of the game - that´s tremendous.
The problem of the selection is, that he´s been horrible in the first 15 games and wasn´t a big factor in his other seasons with Nürnberg.
His been highly touted by his coaches but he couldn´t put it all together.

Although this strength is pretty new, he´s been showing that for a long stretch now and therefore i´d call this a good pick.

Vittek - i was afraid of that pick since it´s damn hard judging him.

He´s on fire - i mean really on fire since January.
I´d even take him over my boy Klose since then.

Vittek is fast, he´s skilled, he´s got the nose you need to be a good striker and has passing skills plus an understanding of the game - that´s tremendous.
The problem of the selection is, that he´s been horrible in the first 15 games and wasn´t a big factor in his other seasons with Nürnberg.
His been highly touted by his coaches but he couldn´t put it all together.

Although this strength is pretty new, he´s been showing that for a long stretch now and therefore i´d call this a good pick.

Hey I left you a message, thanks for the feedback though. :)

Hey I left you a message, thanks for the feedback though. :)

You already got a reply :)

Hey I left you a message, thanks for the feedback though. :)
Come on guys, make your pick so that we can move on.

You already got a reply :)

So I did, I didn't get the usual alert, but thanks.

Hopefully Beli won't be too upset, but I think to keep the draft going, we should pick, so we'll select German NT RB Arne Friedrich

Come on guys, make your pick so that we can move on.

Sorry about the wait, the guys we had targeted were taken in the 2-3 picks before us.

Just pick a pylon, everyone will be happy.

Just pick a pylon, everyone will be happy.

Well, hopefully Friedrich is a bit better than a pylon, certainly better than that Sagnol guy we had thought about taking earlier. :sarcasm:

So I did, I didn't get the usual alert, but thanks.

Hopefully Beli won't be too upset, but I think to keep the draft going, we should pick, so we'll select German NT RB Arne Friedrich

Solid selection. Wasn´t as strong as last season, but overall a pretty decent player without a big weakness.

Are you serious when you say Friedrich is better than Sagnol????

Don't forget to PM Juni.
I'd like to get the 6 drafts done before the WC.

I'm up, no worries.

Feeling the need to solidify the midfield, I'll take Sebastian Kehl

Are you serious when you say Friedrich is better than Sagnol????

Of course not, note the sarcastic emoticon accompanying the comment. ;)

I'm up, no worries.

Feeling the need to solidify the midfield, I'll take Sebastian Kehl

I was hoping he would drop, nice pick for my money, I hear he'll probably be playing DM at WC06?

I was hoping he would drop, nice pick for my money, I hear he'll probably be playing DM at WC06?

Don´t bet on that - i hope he´s playing, but you´ll never know (Klinsmann).

Bakos, PK's up.
Use your list!

I love the selection cause Kehl is often underrated. Pretty young guys around him and although he´s not a eye-popping player most of the time he´s damn good especially his positional play. Becoming more of a leader with time marching on.

I love the selection cause Kehl is often underrated. Pretty young guys around him and although he´s not a eye-popping player most of the time he´s damn good especially his positional play. Becoming more of a leader with time marching on.

I was really tempted, but I just wasn't sure how I would be able to slot him into the team and I don't think we wanted to risk the pick when we had more pressing needs, a tough one to let go though.

PK you´re up here :)

I was really tempted, but I just wasn't sure how I would be able to slot him into the team and I don't think we wanted to risk the pick when we had more pressing needs, a tough one to let go though.

DM is a position you´ll find lots of decent players, so don´t worry :)

I'm back from Toronto guys.

I'll pick CB Christian Wörns.


I´m not a friend of this whiner at all, but he´s been a steady performer for years in the Bundesliga and at this point in the draft that´s a good choice.

btw: there´s still one of the best CB with LB eligibilty available + a real steal for the CB position.

I didn´t miss any ratings btw. Round 17 has no rating since he didn´t play.

Well yes, you did. You missed the ratings up to round 17 where five of the ratings were better than a 3.

I'll take Mladen Krstajic, thank you very much.

Les Habs is up.

Well yes, you did. You missed the ratings up to round 17 where five of the ratings were better than a 3.

Since i was only quoting his damn long bad streak i didn´t consider the games before game day 16 and after the bad streak ended, so that´s obvious.
Overall 11 bad ratings are way too much for a go-to guy IMO.

I'll take Mladen Krstajic, thank you very much.

Finally.
Tough to play against, solid shot, good header and solid positional play. Able to play LB if the need occures and a solid contributor here too.
Has been a cornerstone for both Bremen and Schalke.

I'll go with Sergej Barbarez

The Rage/Evilo are up twice, then Les habs again..

We'll pick Poulsen and Asamoah.

For my next pick I'll go with Yildiray Basturk

I'll take Kevin Kuranyi..

Lots of picks while i was shopping a room in our flat :D

Barbarez - nice selection.
A real go-to guy, tremendous understanding of the game. He´s getting old, so he´s not that fast anymore, but his soccer brain is able to equal that. Scores clutch goals and can make things happen but is prone to be a lurker every here and then.

Poulsen - Hard, sometimes an unfair player. Best pure destroyer in DM in the Bundesliga (maybe even Europe). Nobody likes playing against him but everybody would love to have him on the own team. SOlid passing, good at heading the ball.
Can shoot well, but doesn´t use his shot often due to the depth of Schalke in the shooters department.
Downgrade is his mind since he couldn´t decide between teams and has bee lucky so far in his career for not receiving red cards (which could´ve happened a lot), but still a good team-player (although many won´t like him).

Asamoah - IMO the best available pure RW. Built like a tank and often plays like that. Isn´t overly skilled nor does he have one hell of a shot, but his work ethic and use of his body are top notch. Can be used as a RM or S too, but don´t expect high goal totals - just expect energy and havoc when he´s on the pitch.
He´s in a better shape this year than he´s been in his previous seasons in the Bundesliga. Good selection at this point of the draft.

Bastürk - small guy, superb dribbler but is dribbling abit too much sometimes. Very accurate shot but often his shots are flat.
Has nice passing skills and sees the pitch well, but often rather keeps the ball to have another dribbling. Fast player and always using his feet at a maximum.
Not a fan of him, but in the right team he´ll fit nicely as long as there are not too many guys trying to keep the ball too.

Kuranyi - nof a fan of him, too. Still has that nose for the goal, but you´d often saw him make the wrong move this season. Has the skill to score many and big goals (he doesn´t care about left foot, right foot, head, knee, distance to the goal or anything else), but if he´s missing some chances without scoring one goal then he´s often found with self-doubts. Not a premium passer at all.
A workhorse nonetheless even when he´s not scoring.
I´d say there are two better strikers still out there when i comes to just scoring goals/creating chances.
Mediocre selection.

I select Bremen centre back Naldo

Klasnic - fell too far IMO. He´s a bit underrated cause Klose gets the most attention. Klasnic is the perfect fit for Klose most of the time since he´s a left foot and able to play a good pass too or shoot the ball in from a bigger distance.
He´s an allround package but his main skills are his excellent shot from about everywhere and his nose for the net.

Hard to control both Klose and Klasnic in one game and when both are on fire....just sit down and enjoy soccer.
Great selection


Naldo - has had problems in the beginning since he took many things too easy and got burned here and then. He´s progressed all season long and is now a steady defenseman. He´s not a great passer and can´t open a game like Ismael could, so he´s more of a solid contributor to the defense than the new head.
Mediocre selection since i do think that one CB is dropping due to lack of reputation and he should be picked soon (atleast i hope so!)

He was one of three centre backs I had on the list to take, I chose him because I like his size and strength and alongside Ismael gives me a solid duo in the middle. If it was pure height I was after I'd maybe have gone elsewhere but I like the package Naldo brings.

I was hoping that Klasnic might fall farther since he had already fallen a ways, but I guess we waited too long.

Several goodies are still out there:

- a very solid and proven goalscorer
- an all-around good defensive player (listed as a back)
- a CM that is playing for a smaller team, but will move to a bigger team next year
- a CB that is coming from a small European country

Several goodies are still out there:

- a very solid and proven goalscorer
- an all-around good defensive player (listed as a back)
- a CM that is playing for a smaller team, but will move to a bigger team next year
- a CB that is coming from a small European country

Agreed..

in addition:

- a nasty and aggressive striker from a small team (Kärppä is not a fan :D )
- the young CB i´ve been talking for a while, small team too
- a young german LB
- a young RB, already playing for a bigger team
- a allrounder for midfield (able to play all positions well and even LB/RB if the need occures)
- another LB, young too but playing for a bigger team more in the east

4 hours left and then Juni can pick again.

I pm'd Beli with no response, so to try to keep things moving, we'll take Bernd Schneider and Piotr Trochowski.

Both are good choices (especially Schneider at this point of the draft), but i thought Trochowski would be picked up later.

Both are OM/RM for most of the time but can be used at different positions in midfield (but to an lesser extent).
Schneider is outstanding on set-plays and can really make things happen. His downside is his lack of using his energy at the wrong time. He´s using all his speed for offensive tasks so he´s prone for getting burned defensively.

Trochowski can´t be considered a regular, but that is more due to the depth (VdV + Barbarez and others). Very agile, very fast player player with a great shot.
Tries to do too much and isn´t a big performer on the defensive yet, although he´s using his speed well in re-covering balls.

Juni's up.

I´ll be unavailable from Friday afternoon until Sunday evening...

soo if you´re unsure about players (or haven´t thought about it yet), there´s a bit time left for you to ask ;)

Sorry fellas, was out playing football.

I'll select Claudio Pizarro

Pizarro is a steal at this point of the draft.
Very active striker and a good dribbler and doesn´t pass up on scoring chances often.

Mertesacker - solid choice.
Plays damn fair for a CB and is a calm defender not prone for bad passes.
Solid positional play, but although he´s really big he´s not a good header and sometimes gets beaten by small players.
Needs to get a bit stronger, too.

I pick Nigel de Jong, HSV..

Les Habs is up.

I pick Nigel de Jong, HSV..

A bit early for me since he´s been nothing special in the Bundesliga and i still see some impact players out there.

A bit early for me since he´s been nothing special in the Bundesliga and i still see some impact players out there.

I agree, but the draft isn't purely based on this season and this season only. De Jong is one of the most versatile talents in the world and posseses an all-round skill-set. He also has international experience (Oranje) and has scored some major goals in CL action for Ajax. He is very, very clutch. Didn't he also score the winner vs Bayern this year?

I agree, but the draft isn't purely based on this season and this season only. De Jong is one of the most versatile talents in the world and posseses an all-round skill-set. He also has international experience (Oranje) and has scored some major goals in CL action for Ajax. He is very, very clutch. Didn't he also score the winner vs Bayern this year?

He did score the game winner, but that has been his only game so far that was good. All other appearances were mediocre or dissapointing (which isn´t an indicator that he won´t do well in the future).

Overall i have some players on my list that have been good in the past and in the recent games and i can´t say both for De Jong.

Sorry folks, but I had to work all day and then of course had to stay away from the internet until I was done watching the Uefa Cup Final.

So I guess I'll go with Fernando Meira of VFB.

I pick Nigel de Jong, HSV..

:amazed: OMG! Ott picked de Jong!!! :biglaugh: Surprise, surprise. :sarcasm:

Hey Frenchy, if you draft soon enough I can get my next pick in before bedtime. ;)

Hmmm. Couple of strikers still out there. Oh boy, has a keeper been taken yet?

We'll take Neuville and Kringe.

I'll take Schalke 04's Rafinha

Meira - finally. Dropped too far imo. He´s versatile, can play CB + DM. Consistency is a problem, but still a good player.

Kringe - Steal. Can play every position in midfield and even LB/RB if the needed. Has a good shot, very fast and aggressive. Solid passing. Can´t understand that he hasn´t been considered for the National Team yet (but that´ll come soon).

Neuville - never been a fan of his, but he´s a speedy and agile winger. Misses out on big chances too often, but is still a force when he´s on fire. He´s savvy and he´s a diver (and has a slight history of playing the ball with his hands too...).
Overall you can´t disagree with the selection since he´s bringing results/goals for the team....i just question the way he´s doing it (sometimes)..

Rafinha - fast and speedy, but small. A offensive RB who loves to cross the ball. Could dribble a bit more when on the attack (in 9 of 10 cases he´s going to cross the ball). On the defensive side he´s aggressive but sometimes a bit too much lurking for the steal to start a counter attack and gets burned for that.
Good selection though since he´s consistent threat.

CB Metzelder please..

Sorry PK, already taken in Round 5 FlyHigh/Beli.

Metzelder - i like this pick. He´s been injured a lot, but he´s still a quality guy. Solid selection...

...but man, there are 2-3 CB out that need to be picked soon...

Sorry about that.

I'll go with RM Medhi Madhivikia then.

If you´re using him on the defense you´ll get a pretty offensive RB (like Rafinha), but Mahdavikia has been a fill-in at that position and his weakness is the defensive coverage.
Has been used as a RW at the start of his career. Isn´t that good at crossing the ball for a winger, but he´s fast and agile, but not overly effective.
Mediocre choice. Versatile player, but i still have better guys available on my list.

Ugh O=S first DeJong and now Metzelder.

Sorry man, but I don't like both of your selections. DeJong has talent and may has scored key goals, but I see a couple of better alternatives in the pool.

Metzelder hasn't been a regular with Dortmund this year and was recently injured . Too bad, because I liked this guy in the past but right now he's only good as a sub for me.

Check the medium (for example ex-Champs) & smaller sixed teams!

I'll make my pick in about a half hour, gotta grab some food.

I'll select Tranquillo Barnetta

I'll select Tranquillo Barnetta

That´s a good one.
Improved a lot at the start of the season and has been steady for a while now.
Is able to do everything you´d want from him in the offensive part of the game (can play about all positions too, but i´d keep him as a OM/RM).

Juni also picked Schweinsteiger and together with Barnetta he has a chance to rotate them.

Good pick Juni.:thumbu:

I'll send Beli a pm soon, hopefully we'll have our pick in a few hours.

You could use a CB, eh ?

Don´t pick the wrong guy...three good guys still out there, but no 'big names' :)

I'm going to bed, I'll wait for your PM and if I agree will post the choice tomorrow morning. :)

So here's our choices (I'm following FlyHigh advices, looked good) :
CB Frank Fahrenhorst from Werder
LB Marcell Jansen from Mönchengladbach

Juni's up.

Light and shaddow. That's a way to sum up your selections.

Jansen has emerged as one of the better LB in the Bundesliga, he's tall, lanky, good shoot and good on headers.

Fahrenhorst? Yuck! Just because he's playing for Werder doesn't mean that he's good.

Light and shaddow. That's a way to sum up your selections.

Jansen has emerged as one of the better LB in the Bundesliga, he's tall, lanky, good shoot and good on headers.

Fahrenhorst? Yuck! Just because he's playing for Werder doesn't mean that he's good.

Agreed -

Janssen has a booming shot, is very active and agile. Could be used even as a LM or LW. His speed is outstanding.

Fahrenhorst on the other side is a bad pick so far. He´s not a regular, he´s out of shape for about 2 years now.

- a nasty and aggressive striker from a small team (Kärppä is not a fan :D )
- the young CB i´ve been talking for a while, small team too
- a pretty proven LB (can´t believe he´s still out there...Milan was rumoured to be interested at some point)
- a LB from the same team as the young CB i´ve been pumping for a while now...
- another LB, young too but playing for a bigger team more in the east
- 2-3 strikers from potential relegation teams...

I'll take Schalke's Dario Rodriguez

PK's up.

I'll take Schalke's Dario Rodriguez

Not a good selection too.
Rodriguez is so-so. He can be a beast, but is prone for receiving YC/RC, but most of the time he´s a fill-in player. Not that sound in defensive coverage and a slow guy, too.

I´m goneuntil Sunday.
Hopefully you´ll do well (have a look at the bottom 10 teams...some decent players are still out there!) :)

Hey Bakos, we're likely to start another draft (either Calcio or Liga) this weekend.
Make sure to agree to a list with O=S.

Manuel Friedrich, please..

Fahrenhorst on the other side is a bad pick so far. He´s not a regular, he´s out of shape for about 2 years now.

I had been under the impression that he was good, I read somewhere that he was one of the best CBs in Germany, but I guess I need to check myself a little more.

Sorry about that one Beli.

I'll take Bayer's Simon Rolfes with my next pick.

We'll make our picks shortly.

M.Friedrich is a really solid pick at this time. One of the better remaining CB. Good pick O=S.

The Pantelic pick is okay, but I'm not a big fan of his game and I have a feeling that he won't score at the same rate next season. I would have picked another guy.

I wonder, who will select the first goaltender. Just a friendly advice, be careful who you select, because players have regressed.

Another advice:

I can't believe that one of best midfielders (a veteran) of the last couple of season is still out there.

We pick Fathi (Berlin) and Cherundolo (Hannover).

Fathi- Van Buyten- Bordon- Cherundolo. :handclap:

That's got to be of, if not, the best bottom four of all teams.

An emerging LB with Hertha. Fathi has managed to earn himself a place in the one the best defenses of the BL and he'll be perfect, because DVB & MB are similar to his partners in Berlin, only better. A well build player. :handclap:

The Cherundolo pick is decent as they are not many good RB remaining in the draft.

And I'm happy with how our team looks so far :

-----------------Altintop--------------
Neuville--------------------Asamoah
-----------------Rosicky---------------
-------Poulsen-----------Kringe-------
Fathi-Van Buyten-Bordon-Cherundolo

If we don't screw up with our last pick, I'm happy.

I had been under the impression that he was good, I read somewhere that he was one of the best CBs in Germany, but I guess I need to check myself a little more.

Sorry about that one Beli.

No matter, I had another old player at this position in mind but its making up for the Donovan pick... ;)

I guess I'll get the keepers moving here since my next guy will probably get passed (and I have a backup if he gets taken).

I'll take Timo Hildebrand

O=S is up.

Hildebrand is solid, but I'd rate 3 other guys higher than TH.

I'll pick: Ze Roberto..

----------- Makaay - Kuranyi ----------
---------------- Lincoln -----------------
Ze Roberto ------------------- de Jong
--------------- Demichels --------------
Krstajic ------------------------ Sagnol
---------- Metzelder - Friedrich -------
-------------------------------------------
------------------ XXXX -----------------

PK's up.

Juni's up.

I'll take Patrick Owomoyela

Flyhigh/Beli are up for their last two picks. Don't forget to post your lineups guys.

Just saw the german last day's highlights on DSF, and I sure hope everyone noticed Bordon's HUGE free kick.
And I sure hope everyone noticed Makaay's 4 or 5 misses including three sitters... :D

EDIT : and that Altintop scored again... Sorry Bakos about K'Slautern being relegated... :(

Sorry Bakos about K'Slautern being relegated... :(

This sucks. I think that Bakos went to Wolfsburg to attend the game. I'll bet that he's trying to recover now from the massive amount of alcohol consumed. :D

Boys, wish my team, FC Energie Cottbus, luck this afternoon, because they are trying everything to get back into the Bundesliga. :handclap:

yep saw that, good luck to Energie!

My team (Caen) didn't get promoted based on goal difference... :shakehead
They were relegated last year based on goal difference as well... :shakehead
That's what you get for playing all offensive football. Too many goals against.

Where to start...

...i´m crying for 1,5 days now...
It´s been hard to see us go down in Wolfsburg, pretty hard...especially after we scored an early goal.
Overall i´m crying, but still satisfied with what the team showed since January. A young team (often 3 or more U20 guys started) that fought to stay in and just missed some luck (in other games - not against Wolfsburg).
We´ll fight back and i´ve talked with lots of friends - we´re going to order season tickets, cause we have to get back...
Sad weekend - and no, there was no alcohol at all. I wasn´t able to cry and drink at the same time and most the 10000 Lautern Fans weren´t drunk, but crying.


Back to the picks

Pantelic - what Kärppä said - i see better guys still available, but not a bad pick.

Friedrich - finally. A really steady guy, good positional player, not prone for making mistakes and a leader too. Love that selection.

Rolfes - good one here. He´s really creative, got a decent shot and is improving fast. Bremen made a big mistake by letting him go.

Fathi - Made big strides within the last year and is now a pretty solid LB who´s showing glimpses of more (and i´m sure he´ll show more pretty soon). Love that selection.

Cherundolo - what Kärppä said.

Hildebrand - he´s too small and thin for me. Has good reflexes and tries to be an active GK but isn´t overly impressing cause he lacks the size and physical strength. I´d taken 3 others guys over him like Kärppä.

Enke - 2nd best goalie on my list :)

Owomoyela - turned heads last year in his first Bundesliga season and went on to Bremen where he struggled in the beginning, but he got used to the system and is now a solid player again - just the offense of his old days in Bielefeld is missing. Solid seleciton.

@ Evilo:
Nice team so far, i just dislike Neuville (but that´s more because of his style). That team could work out pretty well with Rosicky setting up the wingers while Poulsen is playing his nasty style and Kringe chips in with offense every here and then.

@ FlyHigh:
No problem about Fahrenhorst. Those drafts are about learning more of others leagues and i´ll screw up here and then too (like we all do) ;)

@ O=S:
If that team is in shape, that´s a tremendous team. Right now i still have to question De Jong a bit and Ze Roberto has been so-so since he´s arrived in Munich. With a healthy Metzelder the defense is nothing but steady and not prone for making mistakes. I like the combination of Demichelis-Lincoln.

Well Beli hasn't replied, so I'll pick Alexander Meier and Oliver Kahn.

Juni's up.

Well Beli hasn't replied, so I'll pick Alexander Meier and Oliver Kahn.

Goalie No.1 + 3 are still up for grabs.
Kahn is still good, but is obviously on the decline.

Meier - loved that guy for years. He´s not the typical OM. He´s not a premier passing player, but is fast, clever and has a nose for the net.

I'll take Tim Wiese

And, my completed team



..............Klose......Pizarro...........

...................Micoud..................

..Schweinsteiger...................Barnetta

..................Kehl.....................

Rodriguez.....Ismael...Naldo......Owomoyela

...................Wiese...................



I'm fairly happy, I've got two very proven goalscorers and a fantastic creative force behind them, two wingers who can play all over the place and pop up anywhere to hit the opponent hard, whilst Kehl cleans up. The fullbacks can get forward often and with threat, and the centre backs are tall and strong - the back four is very physical and have stamina in abundance. In goal, I feel I have one of the most complete goalies in the country and a very up and coming player worldwide - loved him at Kaiserslautern and he's played very well at Bremen.

FlyHigh/Belizarius


------------------Vittek-------------
Podolski-------------------------Meier
-----------------Ballack-----------
-----Trochowski-----Schneider----
Jansen---Lucio-----Fahrenhorst---Friedrich
---------------Kahn--------------

I think this team is pretty good. Vittek has definitely come on in the 2nd half of the year and really asserted himself as a great striker. Podolski is another guy who is getting better and better and he's a big hope for Germany at this year's WC. Meier has had 2 really good years in a row. Ballack speaks for himself, he'll control the center of the midfield and he's always dangerous attacking. Trochowski is another nice creative player who can push up next to Ballack and I like Schneider as well. I'm really happy with 3 of the back 4. Jansen is really solid and good in the attack, Lucio is good, and Friedrich is a tested veteran and leader. Kahn is a good GK I think although not what he once was.

The team should be good on set plays because I believe that both Ballack and Schneider are big threats in the air.

Finally, I like the blend of youth and experience. Podolski, Meier, Vittek, and Trochowski are all young, but Ballack, Friedrich, and Kahn are proven leaders.

And, my completed team



..............Klose......Pizarro...........

...................Micoud..................

..Schweinsteiger...................Barnetta

..................Kehl.....................

Rodriguez.....Ismael...Naldo......Owomoyela

...................Wiese...................



I'm fairly happy, I've got two very proven goalscorers and a fantastic creative force behind them, two wingers who can play all over the place and pop up anywhere to hit the opponent hard, whilst Kehl cleans up. The fullbacks can get forward often and with threat, and the centre backs are tall and strong - the back four is very physical and have stamina in abundance. In goal, I feel I have one of the most complete goalies in the country and a very up and coming player worldwide - loved him at Kaiserslautern and he's played very well at Bremen.
Nice team you have there Juni. Not too fond of the defense, but that may be because of a lack of knowledge from my part. The rest looks pretty impressive in my book.

FlyHigh/Belizarius

The team should be good on set plays because I believe that both Ballack and Schneider are big threats in the air.


Schneider is not, but he´s excellent on corners and/or free-kicks :)

I'll take Tim Wiese

Solid choice, although No. 1+3 are still up for grabs..

Wiese has one big downgrade - he´s a goalie that loves to fly through the air because of the showelement. He could be much better if he´d just keep the ball instead of trying to fly or make another 'strange move'.

Overall i agree (especially since i saw him for a long strech with Lautern I and Lautern II), that he has tremendous talent and will improve in the near future and he´ll be considered for the NT then.
Strange guy, though :)

-------------- Klasnic ---- Pantelic --------------
----------------- Van der Vaart -----------------
Borowski ------------ Frings ----------- Mahdivikia
Lahm ----- Wörns ------ Mertesacker ----- Hinkel
--------------------- Enke ----------------------



-------------- Klasnic ---- Pantelic --------------
----------------- Van der Vaart -----------------
Borowski --------------------------- Mahdavikia
---------------------- Frings -------------------
Lahm ----- Wörns ------ Mertesacker ----- Hinkel
--------------------- Enke ----------------------

It´s just a small change, but important to me. Borowski has to be used in a LM/OM mixture role to be effective.
The right flank is a bit inconsistent and Hinkel/Mahdavikia are about the same player.
IMO the only real downgrade on the team is Pantelic, since he´s not a superb striker at all and just has that many goals in his vita cause Berlin doesn´t have another striker at all.
I love the Borowski/Frings/vdV combination though.

I pick keeper Weidenfeller to complete my squad..

------------ Makaay - Kuranyi ------------
----------------- Lincoln -----------------
Ze Roberto ---------------------- de Jong
---------------- Demichels --------------
Krstajic -------------------------- Sagnol
---------- Metzelder - Friedrich ----------
-----------------------------------------
-------------- Wiedenfeller ---------------

Sorry FlyHigh I was sure I answered to your PM and disapparead the whole day to watch a few games... :(
I will watch more closely tomorrow for the Serie A draft. ;)

Where to start...

...i´m crying for 1,5 days now...
It´s been hard to see us go down in Wolfsburg, pretty hard...especially after we scored an early goal.
Overall i´m crying, but still satisfied with what the team showed since January. A young team (often 3 or more U20 guys started) that fought to stay in and just missed some luck (in other games - not against Wolfsburg).
We´ll fight back and i´ve talked with lots of friends - we´re going to order season tickets, cause we have to get back...
Sad weekend - and no, there was no alcohol at all. I wasn´t able to cry and drink at the same time and most the 10000 Lautern Fans weren´t drunk, but crying.

I'm so sorry. We in Hannover certainly wanted you guys to stay up.
This was actually the reaction in the stadium after it was announced that K'lautern scored:
ttp://rapidshare.de/files/20436266/DSCN0873.MOV.html

With my final pick I'll take Schalke 04's Fabian Ernst

I'll post my lineup tonight.

----------------------Berbatov---------------------

-------Basturk-------Barbarez------Marcelinho------

------------Rolfes-------------Ernst----------------

Dede--------Meira--------Boulahrouz--------Rafinha

---------------------Hildebrand--------------------

Definately a different formation for me considering the previous drafts, but I have very specific ideas for these guys. It's pretty much a 4-2-3-1 formation, though the players will be moving a bit. I'll get into that in a bit though. I'll start by saying that this team has a lot of Bundelsiga experience, in fact a lot of experience in general. All of those guys bar one of them are very proven Bundesliga players. They're all pretty much putting numbers on the board this season and/or have in the past. I also like how they all work in this formation, but I think after some of the comments I read I'll have to explain that a bit.

Starting up front with Berbatov, it's pretty amazing this guy is only 25 years old. I feel like he's been around forever. Well that's probably because he's got such an impressive record with Bayer. He has an amazing 68 goals in 119 starts. If you really look at his numbers, he'd probably have many more if he had more starts in the past. That's not all though, he's also got 9 goals in 20 starts in Europe for Bayer. So the goals are definately there. The assist are too though as he's got 10 this season. That's important as he has three guys around him who will all figure for goals. I've been following him for a while and it doesn't surprise me he's finally moving on. Stoichkov recommended him to Barça a few years ago. Anyway, Berbatov is easily good for 20 goals.

Behind Berbatov you have a trio of attacking midfielders. Now I need to get out some technical aspects here. Marcelinho and Basturk are both wide, but they're not really that wide. They're not wingers in this formation. They'll both have their freedom on their respective sides, but they're just in from where a wing would normally be. Marcelinho and Basturk will be a bit more forward than Barbarez during the matches as well as they will make runs forward with the ball. Both have more pace and are better dribblers at speed while Barbarez is more well rounded. Marcelinho and Basturks runs forward at the defense will draw defenders freeing up Berbatov and Barbarez. Barbarez will be more of a distributor to the two as well as to Berbatov, plus he'll win headers from goal kicks. Still Barbarez will get his chances to get forward. In terms of numbers, these guys bring a ton of offense. As I said, Barbarez is in the middle for a reason. He has 13 assists this season. As I said though, he'll get his goals too. He's good for at minimum 10 goals a season if he started every match/avoided injury. Basturk also brings goals and assists. If you look at his numbers he's good for 8-10 goals a full season as a starter, but he too brings assists in that range. That just leaves Marcelinho and his productivity of about 15 goals and 15 assists a season if you really average out his numbers. Even in a "bad" season he's got 12 goals and 12 assists. So these guys at minimum would bring about 30 goals a season (and that's with a pretty conservative estimate).

The next phase of tiered midfield has my DM's. I specifically wanted at least one guy who could bring some offense. I also wanted both guys to be able to pass the ball as well. Simon Rolfes is a pretty well rounded player. He's capable enough at DM, but he's also going to bring a few more goals and assists to the side. Ernst is more a true DM, but he can definately pass the ball and that's really important in this formation. He'll stay back a bit more if Rolfes gets forward.

On to the defense, I'll start at the flanks. I specifically chose the two Brazilian fullbacks because they can get forward. This is where the width comes from as I mentioned earlier how Marcelinho and Basturk weren't quite standard wingers. Rafinha and Dede will get forward providing further outlets for Basturk and Marcelinho while Rolfes and Ernst can provide cover against counterattacks. Boularhouz and Meira are a solid pairing. Both are solid defensively, but they also both can distribute the ball.

In goal I have Timo. I really like Timo a lot and definately rate him higher than one judge. Hildebrand is definately better than another keeper who used to play for Barça who's definately had some bad patches in his career. That guy was horrible for Barça, even on a Bosman.

We'll take Rost (Schalke).

Our lineup :

-----------------Altintop--------------
Neuville--------------------Asamoah
-----------------Rosicky---------------
-------Poulsen-----------Kringe-------
Fathi-Van Buyten-Bordon-Cherundolo
---------------Rost-----------------

Karpaa, Bakos and GB can send their rankings.

..............Klose......Pizarro...........

...................Micoud..................

..Schweinsteiger...................Barnetta

..................Kehl.....................

Rodriguez.....Ismael...Naldo......Owomoyela

...................Wiese...................






------------------Vittek-------------
Podolski-------------------------Meier
-----------------Ballack-----------
-----Trochowski-----Schneider----
Jansen---Lucio-----Fahrenhorst---Friedrich
---------------Kahn--------------


-------------- Klasnic ---- Pantelic --------------
----------------- Van der Vaart -----------------
Borowski --------------------------- Mahdavikia
---------------------- Frings -------------------
Lahm ----- Wörns ------ Mertesacker ----- Hinkel
--------------------- Enke ----------------------



------------ Makaay - Kuranyi ------------
----------------- Lincoln -----------------
Ze Roberto ---------------------- de Jong
---------------- Demichels --------------
Krstajic -------------------------- Sagnol
---------- Metzelder - Friedrich ----------
-----------------------------------------
-------------- Wiedenfeller ---------------


----------------------Berbatov---------------------

-------Basturk-------Barbarez------Marcelinho------

------------Rolfes-------------Ernst----------------

Dede--------Meira--------Boulahrouz--------Rafinha

---------------------Hildebrand--------------------



-----------------Altintop--------------
Neuville--------------------Asamoah
-----------------Rosicky---------------
-------Poulsen-----------Kringe-------
Fathi-Van Buyten-Bordon-Cherundolo
---------------Rost-----------------

Weidenfeller has been my No.1 on the goalie list and Rost was the number 3...both are good choices and you could easily put Rost ahead of Weidenfeller on your personal ranking or Enke. All three played excellent for most of the time and it´s just personal preference with Weidenfeller being my No.1.

I´ll do the rankings later as well as a top undrafted list...

I'm so sorry. We in Hannover certainly wanted you guys to stay up.
This was actually the reaction in the stadium after it was announced that K'lautern scored:
ttp://rapidshare.de/files/20436266/DSCN0873.MOV.html

Thanks a lot - good to see many teams rooting for us (again), especially after we fell out of favor after that financial chaos :)

The top undrafted players...

players in bold should´ve been picked:

GK: Dimo Wache (Mainz 05), Christian Fiedler (Hertha BSC Berlin), Georg Koch (MSV Duisburg)

Defense: Levan Kobiashvili (Schalke 04), Josip Simunic (Hertha BSC Berlin), Clemens Fritz (Bayer Leverkusen), Timothee Atouba (Hamburger SV), Jens Nowotny (Bayer Leverkusen), Guy Demel (Hamburger SV), Bo Svensson (Borussia Mönchengladbach), Ze Antonio (Borussia Mönchengladbach), Kevin Hofland (VfL Wolfsburg), Lukas Sinkiewicz (1.FC Köln), Nikolce Noveski (Mainz 05), Alexander Vasovski (Eintracht Frankfurt), Heiko Westermann (Arminia Bielefeld)

Midfield: Owen Hargreaves, Hasan Salihamidzic (both Bayern Munich), David Jarolim (Hamburger SV), Paul Freier (Bayer Leverkusen), Peer Kluge (Borussia Mönchengladbach), Marek Mintal (1.FC Nürnberg), Markus Feulner (1.FC Köln), Albert Streit (1.FC Köln), Antonio DaSilva (Mainz 05), Jermaine Jones (Eintracht Frankfurt), Michael Fink (Arminia Bielfeld)

Striker: Jan Koller (Borussia Dortmund), Andriy Voronin (Bayer Leverkusen), Boubacar Sanogo (1.FC Kaiserslautern), Danijel Ljuboja (VfB Stuttart), Marco Streller (VfB Stuttgart/1.FC Köln), Jon Dahl Tomasson (VfB Stuttgart), Diego Klimowicz (VfL Wolfsburg), Mike Hanke (VfL Wolfsburg), Stefan Kiessling (1.FC Nürnberg), Michael Thurk (Mainz 05), Mohamed Zidan (Werder Bremen/Mainz 05), Ioannis Amanatidis (Eintracht Frankfurt), David Odonkor (just as a RW in a 4-3-3 - Borussia Dortmund)

Some of the guys are debateable, but since it´s not just this season i have to say that i expected Jan Koller to get picked.

Overall i´d have to say that the draft went pretty well :clap: , with a little help here and there. ;)
I´ll hand out grades from A to F.
To get a better ranking i combined the grades with points.
A=15, A-=14, B+=13, B=12, B-=11, C+=10, C=9, C-=8, D+=7, D=6.


1. Juni

------------Klose-------Pizarro----------
-----------------Micoud------------------
--Schweinsteiger--------------Barnetta
------------------Kehl----------------------
Rodriguez---Ismael----Naldo-------Owomoyela
----------------------Wiese-----------------------

Defense :Wiese is a solid keeper who loves to show-case himself a bit. Rodriguez shouldn´t have been picked since he´s just a mediocre player, especially when used as a LB. You can´t argue with Ismael and Naldo. Owomoyela is a offensive RB/RM and lacks a bit defensive coverage from time to time.Grade C
Midfield : Micoud is a top playmaker and excellent set-up guy. Schweinsteiger and Barnetta are both very active players who could play on either wing without a problem. Both lack consistency. Kehl is a premier DM in the Bundesliga. Overall that midfield is a solid midfield with young, yet still inconsistent wingers.Grade B+
Offense : You can´t go wrong with Klose up front. He´s scoring, creating chances himself or creating for other players. Pizza is another allrounder up front who´s scoring at a high rate and a guy that would be a pretty partner for Klose.Grade A
Set plays : Micoud is a good guy for the free kicks, but both Schweinsteiger and Barnetta can do well there too. Ismael, Naldo, Klose and Pizarro are impact players, especially when the ball gets crossed in.Grade A-
Character : Kehl and Ismael are true leaders and guys who´re pushing their teams. Micoud is more of a calm leader. OVerall the wing could use a bit more defensive coverage and ferocity.Grade B+

average of 12,8 points


2. Evilo/TheRage

-----------------Altintop--------------
Neuville--------------------Asamoah
-----------------Rosicky---------------
-------Poulsen-----------Kringe-------
Fathi-Van Buyten-Bordon-Cherundolo
---------------Rost-----------------

Defense :A solid gk for years, a top CB pairing. Cherundolo is solid and Fathi a fast rising LB. Bordon has a booming shot and scores some goals throughout a season. Cherundolo is a small player, but active. Grade A-
Midfield : A pure playmaker in Rosicky, but he´s lacking scoring. Kringe can be all over the place and help out wherever a guy is needed. Poulsen is a hard and sometimes unfair player, but none wants to play against him. A bit more support for Rosicky would be nice, especially if Kringe is bound to play a defensive role.Grade B+
Offense : Asamoah is build like a tank and uses his body a lot, but lacks scoring. Scoring is the best asset of Halil Altintop though who´s playing his favorite role - the lone striker. Neuville is fast, active, but diving a lot. Would work out pretty well here. Grade A-
Set plays : Rosicky is good on the free kicks, but the only other impact player is Bordon and to an lesser extend Van Buyten. Most of the strikers are not premier guys for the set play action. Grade C
Character : Van Boyten, Bordon and Rost are leaders. The style of Neuville is questionable like the lame play of Rosicky every here and then. Grade B+

average of 12,6 points (a well more rounded team and therefore they got the nod)


3.FlyHigh/Beli

------------------Vittek-------------
Podolski-------------------------Meier
-----------------Ballack-----------
-----Trochowski-----Schneider----
Janssen---Lucio-----Fahrenhorst---A.Friedrich
---------------Kahn--------------

Defense :Kahn is still a good gk. Friedrich/Janssen is a fine combination for the RB/LB spots. Both are driving forces in the offense. Janssen could use a better positional play in the defense, though. Fahrenhorst is not a top player at all. Lucio on the other hand is but in combination with the clumsy Fahrenhorst he could be a bit too offensive. Grade B-
Midfield : You got Ballack and his shot/header here and a creative guy with Schneider. A speedster in Trochowski who has shown that he´s rising fast and can be a gamebreaker. Defensive coverage is lacking here since all three midfielders are offensive players - especially Schneider and Trochowski in the DM/CM roles. Grade B
Offense : Podolski is a star in the making and Vittek was nothing but outstanding since january, but awful before. If he countinues like he´s playing now the grade would rise a lot. Alex Meier is a player i like, but i´m not sure if he´d fit in well on the right side, especially with similar players like Schneider and Trochowski already playing in midfield. Could be a bit too much with all of them.Grade B-
Set plays : Lucio, Ballack, Podolski are real forces on set plays ans Schneider knows how to cross the ball. Meier and Janssen are wild cards. Grade A-
Character : Ballack and Kahn are true leaders. Schneider, Meier and Friedrich are driving forces too. Vittek has had problems with his work ethic in the past, but right know it looks like he´s over it.Grade A

average of 12,6 points (sorry, but a real DM/CM is lacking and with the shaky Fahrenhorst the team can´t compensate that well)


4.PK

-------------- Klasnic ---- Pantelic --------------
----------------- Van de