[Football] Brazil announces its starting lineup

Perreira announced his starting lineup :
----Ronaldo---Adriano----
---Ronaldinho----Kaka---
--Ze Roberto-----Emerson--
Carlos-Juan-Lucio-Cafu
---------Dida------------

I must say thank you to Mr Perreira for making this team beatable.
I mean when you have Cris, Alex and Juninho not playing and instead you put Ze Roberto, Juan and Lucio, then anything's possible. :speechles

How can anyone be that stupid?

Imagine this lineup :
----Ronaldo---Adriano----
---Ronaldinho----Kaka---
--Juninho-----Emerson--
Carlos-Alex-Cris-Cafu
---------Dida------------

Maybe he's afraid Ronnie won't be able to take the free kicks anymore if Juninho is on the pitch?
And when you have arguably the two most dominant defensemen in the world on your team (Cris and Alex), why do you start Lucio and Juan?

And when you have arguably the two most dominant defensemen in the world on your team (Cris and Alex)

I wouldn't go that far, but your point is taken.

The team still lacks real wingers as well, maybe it's because I'm Dutch but I find that to be a weakness. Their backs have to provide the offensive from the flanks, but they will leave plenty of holes defensively because of it. Cincinho and especially Maxwell would've looked better on the left I think.

I'm not finding this team to be as impressive as I originally thought. Adriano is having an awful, awful season. He has what? 4 goals this year? And has been substituted regularly, nearly losing his spot to Ricardo Cruz. Ronaldo is still dangerous, but not half the man he used to be. Ronaldhino and Kaka is who I frighten the most. Not sure any team will be able to contain them and still manage to keep an eye out on Adriano - Ronaldo/Robinho.

Ze Roberto? He wouldn't even make most rosters. Emerson is getting up there in age, but still a reliable ball hunter, the only real one they have, including defenders.

Their defense is just pathetic for such an elite team. Add a very inconsistent Dida and this team is far from the clear cut favorite.

Who right now is more dominant than Alex and Cris? Seriouly?
I can't think of any CB better than them right now. Nesta has seriouly regressed too.

Cicinho plays the right side BTW. He'd have to take Cafu's spot.
Maxwell hasn't played in months
I think they just don't have many players on the flanks. And with Ronnie and Kaka, I'm not afraid for their creativity, so no wingers is not a problem IMO.

Ze Roberto has nothing to do here. Especially with Juninho on the bench.

But their defense is really the weakest link. Cafu I could live with, but Lucio, Carlos, Juan? Ouch!

Who right now is more dominant than Alex and Cris? Seriouly?
I can't think of any CB better than them right now. Nesta has seriouly regressed too.

Honestly, Jaap Stam, but he hasn't been healthy as often as he'd like. Alex and Chris are in much better shape due to their age. Maybe you are right afterall, but there are still a few who might be considered in their class (Terry, perhaps the Hamburg duo, and then Stam ofcourse)..

oh come on, Stam is not nearly at these guys' level.
He's lost a step, face it.
Terry is not as dominant as these guys IMO.

Terry is not as dominant as these guys IMO.

I highly disagree. Overall they´re equal (with their individual strength and weakness).

As discussed in a previous thread i can understand the decision of taking Lucio, since he´s the most offensive CB you could get. Some do like that style and therefore he gets chosen. He owns both Cris and Alex on the offensive side of the game, but both own Lucio in the defense, but since brazilian soccer is about offense i´m able to see where Pereirra comes from with that decision.

Well, in what aspect of the game is Terry more dominant than Cris and Alex? I'd like to know.
And don't say goals, because Cris scores some very important goals and is a threat on set plays. And Alex shoots the free kicks (very nicely).

Lucio on the other hand has a less than impressive total of 2 goals this season (he had 3 last year). I don't doubt they're highlight reel, but Cris has as many goals, except he did score in the CL (winning goal BTW), while Lucio didn't. Cris scored 5 last season.
Now, obviously, Lucio brings more danger by going up often, even when he doesn't score, but if you add the fact Cris is completely dominant defensively, then it's a no brainer : Cris > Lucio
Terry scored 4 goals this season and non in the CL. Hardly more of an offensive threat than Cris and Lucio.

Bakos, what's your opinion on Juan (at least comparing with the other candidates for the Brazilian team, if you don't want to say it all for the upcoming Bundesliga draft) ? Cause it looked pretty good to me.

Btw, there is an obvious upgrade that has not been mentioned yet.

No Roque Junior it seems!

Btw, there is an obvious upgrade that has not been mentioned yet.

No Roque Junior it seems!
:biglaugh:

Well, in what aspect of the game is Terry more dominant than Cris and Alex? I'd like to know.
And don't say goals, because Cris scores some very important goals and is a threat on set plays. And Alex shoots the free kicks (very nicely).

Lucio on the other hand has a less than impressive total of 2 goals this season (he had 3 last year). I don't doubt they're highlight reel, but Cris has as many goals, except he did score in the CL (winning goal BTW), while Lucio didn't. Cris scored 5 last season.
Now, obviously, Lucio brings more danger by going up often, even when he doesn't score, but if you add the fact Cris is completely dominant defensively, then it's a no brainer : Cris > Lucio
Terry scored 4 goals this season and non in the CL. Hardly more of an offensive threat than Cris and Lucio.

Sorry, but goals/assists doesn´t matter.
If you´re allowing (and that is your aim) to hand Lucio the ball, then he´s going for the solo dribble all the time.
He´s been pressed into a system right now, he´s not shooting free kicks like he did with Leverkusen (Ballack, Scholl & friends).
He´s an offensive dynamo if you´re allowing him to be that. He wants to carry the ball all the time - but he´s not allowed to right now.


Cris/Alex: same discussion we´ve had 1000 times. Terry is way more agressive IMO. He´s not shooting the free-kicks, he´s not as steady as Cris. It´s a tie, plain and simple and everybody has a different favorite, but without homerism you can´t deny that they´re equal. Personal preference, league they play in etc is the deciding factor for everyone and you can go by your man Cris taking all that into consideration, no doubt. Some others will go with Terry or Alex or someone else we haven´t mentioned so far.
And if you want to: Cris gets 100 points and Terry 99,99 points - it´s still equal for me since form and stuff are the deciding factor.

Btw, there is an obvious upgrade that has not been mentioned yet.

No Roque Junior it seems!

He´s not even a regular with Leverkusen - injured, out of shape, whatever.

Bakos, what's your opinion on Juan (at least comparing with the other candidates for the Brazilian team, if you don't want to say it all for the upcoming Bundesliga draft) ? Cause it looked pretty good to me.

He´s been in superb shape when you thought he´s out of shape and the other way round.
Skill-wise he´s able to be one of the most calm defenders in the world, but he´s not able to bring it to the table every week. He´s able to shut down every striker you can imagine, but the other day he´s not able to handle a 10 year old boy.
It all depends on....if we´d know, the coaches would get him started soon :D

He´s not even a regular with Leverkusen - injured, out of shape, whatever..Sucks.

Sorry, but goals/assists doesn´t matter.
If you´re allowing (and that is your aim) to hand Lucio the ball, then he´s going for the solo dribble all the time.
He´s been pressed into a system right now, he´s not shooting free kicks like he did with Leverkusen (Ballack, Scholl & friends).
He´s an offensive dynamo if you´re allowing him to be that. He wants to carry the ball all the time - but he´s not allowed to right now.
Goals and assist don't matter in offensive importance? Come on Bakos.
I already said, goals don't tell the whole story, but if they don't for Lucio, they don't for Cris as well.
BTW, even in Leverkusen, Lucio never scored more than 5 goals (5-4-3-3 in 4 seasons).


Cris/Alex: same discussion we´ve had 1000 times. Terry is way more agressive IMO. He´s not shooting the free-kicks, he´s not as steady as Cris. It´s a tie, plain and simple and everybody has a different favorite, but without homerism you can´t deny that they´re equal. Personal preference, league they play in etc is the deciding factor for everyone and you can go by your man Cris taking all that into consideration, no doubt. Some others will go with Terry or Alex or someone else we haven´t mentioned so far.
And if you want to: Cris gets 100 points and Terry 99,99 points - it´s still equal for me since form and stuff are the deciding factor.
Fair enough. I'd take Cris and Alex over an CB duo right now. And I'd take one of them over the Lucio/Juan duo.

If I had to make a top 5 ranking as of THIS YEAR, it'd be :
1- Cris
2- Alex
3- Terry
4- Gallas
5- Nesta

If I had to make a top 5 ranking as of THIS YEAR, it'd be :
1- Cris
2- Alex
3- Terry
4- Gallas
5- NestaYou mean Cris and Alex are currently the best central defenders in the world?

Right now, I'd say yes. I'd take them before Terry and Gallas.

Goals and assist don't matter in offensive importance? Come on Bakos.
I already said, goals don't tell the whole story, but if they don't for Lucio, they don't for Cris as well.
BTW, even in Leverkusen, Lucio never scored more than 5 goals (5-4-3-3 in 4 seasons).


IMO they don´t tell the whole story, so i´ll rather leave them aside.
If a CB is allowed on set plays to go in front of the net he´ll score more/get better chances instead of being the one to stay back in his own half.
Lucio is more a guy for dribbling and getting a hammer on the net and with that he creates a lot of chances, but you rarely see those on the scoresheet. You´ll see a guy called Uwe Möhrle pretty high on the Bundesliga goalscorers list (atleast for CBs), but he´s had about 10 chances overall this season and got lucky on 5 or 6 of them. Lucio had just about 10 chances to score himself, cause he has to stay in his own half when Lahm, Lizarau (to an lesser extend as of late) and Ismael are attacking - something he didn´t have to do in Leverkusen and Bayern last season (Robert Kovac as the partner).

Right now, I'd say yes. lol, just like most of the times we disagree, but case closed, i don't want to go into it.

lol, just like most of the times we disagree, but case closed, i don't want to go into it.
And I do want.
Please post your list of the top 5 CBs in the world.

IMO, a very beatable defense. But Brazil was never known for their great Defense anyways. Midfield has always been Brazil's strengths.

I'm surprised to see this roster... not as impressive as I thought.
Defense is questionable... with some old players who can't play a full 90 minutes game...

On the Cris-Terry debate, I take Cris any day. Cris a calm, and rarely make a foul. I don't remember him taking a lot of yellow card and no red card this season. He's not going to cheat on a play like falling down vs a forward to push the referee to call a foul like Edmilson can do sometimes for example. Cris is just steady.

lol, just like most of the times we disagree, but case closed, i don't want to go into it.
BTW, I was not counting a certain latin defenseman that can play both CB and RB because he usually plays RB for his national team.
If you count him as a CB, then he definately makes the top 5, arguably number one.

oh come on, Stam is not nearly at these guys' level.
He's lost a step, face it.
Terry is not as dominant as these guys IMO.

Are you kidding me? Stam had Ronaldhino, the best player in the entire world, in his pocket vs Barçelona. Ronaldhino continuesly kept avoiding him, leaning towards the left side of the pitch just so he'd have Cafu instead of Stam. He's been playing on a high level for consecutive years, never missing a beat.

Stam is, IMO world's greatest central back. He hasn't lost nearly the step people think he lost.

I like Alex and Chris, but they aren't Stam and likely never will. Alex wasn't even PSV's best defender this year (Ooier)..

IMO:

1) Stam
2) Terry
3) Nesta

Are the definite top 3.. Order might be interchangable depending on preferances. I have Boulahrouz over Alex as well..

Stam is, IMO world's greatest central back. He hasn't lost nearly the step people think he lost.Ah yes, i think in Italy for two seasons in a row we have been watching his twin brother..

btw, his days with Milan are already over as he finished his second consecutive disappointing and injury riddled season with a surgery to his shoulder, this morning in Varese.

Stam is very well like Thuram. Once the best defenseman in the world, and still a very good defenseman, but not what he once was.

Stam is very well like Thuram. Once the best defenseman in the world, and still a very good defenseman, but not what he once was.Not exactly though..

Thuram has more or less sucked the first two seasons after joining Juve, under Lippi's tenure, mostly used as rightback. Obvious mistake imo, but in that period he didn't look comfortable when playing CB either.
After Capello took over and Cannavaro joined, he has been very good again (last two seasons).

On the contrary, Stam was still terrific while Thuram was struggling , but has almost looked like history many times along the last couple of seasons. A player used to have a physical edge on everyone and to rely on it, has been struggling with several injuries, losing some of his confidence and struggling to play a different, less dominant style. Rarely looked 100%, at his age one has to wonder if the injury thing is going to improve or aggravate..
He has had a few strong performances with Milan too, but almost exclusively in big games, where adrenaline could compense for the lack of real form..

all in all, he obviously can still play with the bests in one of his good days, but those have been too rare in the last two seasons.
(i don't know how i would count it in the draft btw, especially if no subs are picked.. again the top-performanceVSusual performance or seasonVSbig-game argument..)

So you have one of the best, if not the best central back of the past decade aging, and having trouble with staying healthy, yet he always performs in big games? I'll take that..

Stam instantly becomes the best player in the Ere Divisie (well, depending on whether Cocu stays). The only strikers who he might have had trouble containing would be Huntelaar (own teammate) and Kuit/Kalou (both likely moving). He'll cruise to the end of his career..

There should be a war between France and Holland. Whatever ethnicity survives gets to claim it's soccer players are better.

Meh, I think the top talent of both nations are very equal. They play different systems so they produce different players. However, considering the Dutch only have a population of 16 million, we've done quite well I'd say. Only Brazil can honestly claim to have better players than either Holland and France. The rest is all highly debatable..

Brazil produces more, both in terms of quality and quantity.
Funny, because they aren't as organized than both Holland and France.

After that, Holland and France are fairly equal, though you could say France produces more home grown talent while Holland develops more international talent (Park, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, etc...).

Terry scored 4 goals this season and non in the CL. Hardly more of an offensive threat than Cris and Lucio.

Actually Terry scored 7 goals.

Three or four of them were game-winning goals too.

7 goals?
According to L'equipe, Terry has 4 goals in 36 EPL games and 0 in 8 CL games.
Maybe you're counting the Cup and the League Cup, but in that case, I don't have the stats for the others.
I was only counting the domestic league and the CL.

So you have one of the best central back of the past decade aging, and having trouble with staying healthy, yet he always performs in big games? I'll take that..Where exactly did i say he still always performs in big games? :shakehead

Where exactly did i say he still always performs in big games? :shakehead

Ooow.. just hush already! paramigacho!

;)

My deepest apologies for hijacking this thread back to the original topic... ;)

...but does anybody else think it's a little weird to announce your STARTING lineup two months before the tournament? Wouldn't that send a wrong message to those who are in the squad but not on this list? I know that Brazil is a totally different planet when it comes to football, but still... Are any other countries doing this?

that attacking midfield is going to be a joy to watch for the next 2-3 world cups...

My deepest apologies for hijacking this thread back to the original topic... ;)

...but does anybody else think it's a little weird to announce your STARTING lineup two months before the tournament? Wouldn't that send a wrong message to those who are in the squad but not on this list? I know that Brazil is a totally different planet when it comes to football, but still... Are any other countries doing this?

It is a bit weird, but then again most of the big teams should already be certain of 95% of their XI already anyway.

ie/ England - Robinson, Neville, Terry, Rio, Cole, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, Owen is 10 and Rooney should have made it 11.

To get this thread more OT, I will be attending an exhibition match between the U-20 teams of Brazil and Canada. I am very excited to see Kerlon in person, if he's on the team. I will be following the Brazilian players very closely. Expect a detailed report! ;)

To get this thread more OT, I will be attending an exhibition match between the U-20 teams of Brazil and Canada. I am very excited to see Kerlon in person, if he's on the team. I will be following the Brazilian players very closely. Expect a detailed report! ;)Nice!
i think you should post it here though:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=5414169#post5414169