Thoughts on Vishnevski

I don't know if it's just me but I think Vish is having a really good season. His positional defense is SO much better than it was a few years ago. He still nails guys although he hasn't really impaled anyone for a while. He makes good passes, does an excellent job on the PK, I'm not sure how much better he can get but he's still a pretty young guy and it takes DMEN years to develop, can he still become a top notch shut down dman like Chara? or do you guys think he's basically a good top 4 dman and that's it?

I don't think he will ever be a top pairing d-man. I don't think he is going to get a whole lot better. He will be a really good #4 d-man who every team would love to have.

I wouldn't mind seeing him on the 2nd pairing next season if we lose Salei.

Vish definetly looks more comfortable playing Carlyle's system compared to Babcocks. Hayward was talking about that last game how Carlyle likes them to attack at our own blueline and that fits Vish perfectly.

He's got an underrated shot too. Ever since he had been paired Ozo for a short time, he has seemed more comfortable joining the rush also. I'd like to see him play with an offensive-minded d-man next year, such as Jovo.

I don't think he will ever be a top pairing d-man. I don't think he is going to get a whole lot better. He will be a really good #4 d-man who every team would love to have.

I wouldn't mind seeing him on the 2nd pairing next season if we lose Salei.

Vish definetly looks more comfortable playing Carlyle's system compared to Babcocks. Hayward was talking about that last game how Carlyle likes them to attack at our own blueline and that fits Vish perfectly.

I probably couldn't say it much better then that. I don't think he will ever be the guy we hoped he would be when we drafted him, but he is going to be a solid 4th d-man. He is the reason I wouldn't be scared if Salei was gone next year. Although I think he could log 2nd D pairing minutes, I don't think he will ever get them. Unfortunately I think he's stuck on the last pairing. When Smid comes up next year, as Burke has indicated he will, I think the pairings will go something like this:

If Salei is resigned:
Niedermayer-Beauchemin
Salei-Smid
O'Donnell-Vish

If Salei isn't resigned:
Niedermayer-Beauchemin
Jovo-Smid
O'Donnell-Vish

I think if Salei is not signed, then another defensemen will definitely be brought in, and I'm hoping its Jovo. Another interesting thing will be if Dipenta is resigned. I know a lot of you have grown quite fond of him, because he hasn't made many mistakes. However, if he is resigned then O'Brien stays in the AHL another year, and I think we all know he is ready to be a 6th or 7th guy.

I've always liked Vish and think he has been real solid this year. He's real strong and remove a guy from the puck as good as anyone we've ever had. He doesn't handle the puck as well as Scotty, Beauch, or Rusty but he is very strong in his own end, is a great PKer and hits like a freight train.

I agree if Rusty isn't resigned Burke will bring in another D-man. I don't think he'll get Jovo because his contract will be huge and I don't think we can spread around the minutes enough for him, Scotty and Beauchemin.

Oh and I'm sorry but Shane O'Brien will probably never be a Duck. With the fact that Burke traded Ozo because DiPenta has played so well speaks volumes. If Rusty isn't resigned that leaves one spot, just one for a rookie and that's reserved for Smid. Plus, as I've argued a lot I know but it's how I feel, Kondratchev and newly acquired Brett Skinner are ahead of O'Brien. We traded for both of those guys and Burke intends on prepping them for this team. He inherited O'Brien and considering how he handled the other FA d-men he inherited, I think he's gonna let O'Brien go this summer with his contract being up. I will be really, really surprised to ever see Shane O'Brien in a Ducks uniform.

Oh and I'm sorry but Shane O'Brien will probably never be a Duck. With the fact that Burke traded Ozo because DiPenta has played so well speaks volumes. If Rusty isn't resigned that leaves one spot, just one for a rookie and that's reserved for Smid. Plus, as I've argued a lot I know but it's how I feel, Kondratchev and newly acquired Brett Skinner are ahead of O'Brien. We traded for both of those guys and Burke intends on prepping them for this team. He inherited O'Brien and considering how he handled the other FA d-men he inherited, I think he's gonna let O'Brien go this summer with his contract being up. I will be really, really surprised to ever see Shane O'Brien in a Ducks uniform.

Kondratiev I think will go back to Russia. I don't see him being ahead of O'Brien. Kondratiev is a project, not an NHL ready d-man. Skinner needs time in the AHL he is not NHL ready, he also is not ahead of O'Brien.

1.Smid
2.O'Brien
3.Rome
4.Kondratiev
5.Skinner

I don't think he lets O'Brien walk...remember Burke and Carlyle both liked O'Brien's training camp and took a long look at him in the preseason. I don't necessarily see a spot for him in Anaheim next season, but I don't think Burke just lets him walk.

I have a feeling that Smid will spend another year in Portland and O'Brien will be brought in.

Scott - Beauch
Vish - UFA/trade (Jovo?)
O'Donnell - DiPenta
O'Brien

If DiPenta falters, O'Brien can be moved up, he can play on PP as he has a heavy shot and has played that role in Portland as well.

didnt burke say he was gonna sign rusty? and thats why he didnt trade him at the deadline..

Burke has said Smid in going to be in Anaheim. He also said something about him having the best brain of all our D.men who arn't called Niedermayer.

Vishnevski is having a nice season, but he still runs around too much looking to hit guys. If he could pick his spots better...

And he's still too skinny. When he hits he's goes down to the ice, always. Even when he crushes the guy and takes him down too. It hurts him in front of the net as well, but that's less of an issue with the rules this year. D-men can't mug forwards in front of the net anyway.

Vishnevski is having a nice season, but he still runs around too much looking to hit guys. If he could pick his spots better...

And he's still too skinny. When he hits he's goes down to the ice, always. Even when he crushes the guy and takes him down too. It hurts him in front of the net as well, but that's less of an issue with the rules this year. D-men can't mug forwards in front of the net anyway.

I don't want to sacrifice any skating speed Vish currently has by bulking up waist up. If he can put more strength to his legs, fine but that should be it.

I know this is a theory most of you disagree with but I feel it's something GM's seriously consider. How a prospect is acquired has a factor in their developement. Lke say if we draft someone 7th overall or trade one of our defensemen for him. They have to protect their investments. I feel Smid, Kondratchev and Skinner are all ahead of O'Brien. We have no idea what's going on with Kondratchev but I really don't think Burke would have acquired him if he's just going to go back to Russia. We all thought Bryzgalov was going back to Russia and thought he didn't want to be here and have now found out that's not the case.

I've seen Skinner play a lot and I totally like the guy and think he'd have reported here if not for DiPenta playing as well as he has. I think if Burke doesn't sign a UFA or trade for another d-man but still doesn't resign Rusty (a very unlikely situation) than Smid and Skinner make the club. Smid making it for sure but with all the players that have to be resigned this summer, I think O'Brien will slip through the cracks. Smid is more talented we should be looking forward to him playing here.

EDIT: I meant disagree, sorry.

I don't want to sacrifice any skating speed Vish currently has by bulking up waist up. If he can put more strength to his legs, fine but that should be it.

If he hasn't put weight on by now he never will. I see it as something that puts a ceiling on his game rather than problem to be fixed.

He's a big hitting 4th defenseman...no better, no worse (usually). As long as he stays in position and hits when he doesn't have to leave his man to do it...I get along with him. I like the physical presence he brings for sure as he is a very good open ice hitter, easily best one on the team. Still a 4th defenseman.

I know this is a theory most of you agree with but I feel it's something GM's seriously consider. How a prospect is acquired has a factor in their developement. Lke say if we draft someone 7th overall or trade one of our defensemen for him. They have to protect their investments.

Disagree 100%. GM's have to ice the best possible team and how they acquire that team matters very little at the end of the day.

Putting it another way, the only things that matters are what are a team's assets RIGHT NOW. How can a GM use those to improve both now and in future seasons.

Disagree 100%. GM's have to ice the best possible team and how they acquire that team matters very little at the end of the day.

Putting it another way, the only things that matters are what are a team's assets RIGHT NOW. How can a GM use those to improve both now and in future seasons.

Hockey is a business and GMs are businessmen, especially Burkey. They don't just draft players or trade for them on a whim and just kind of check up on them on occasion. You take a guy high in the draft or you trade one of your marque players for one, you better believe they are going to give that guy a better shot over the dude who was taken in the third round or so. This is why Penner gets sent down so much. He is an all benefit situation being we scooped him up outta nowhere. Getzy and Perry have a lot more pressure on them to perform.

Also, like I said, Burke doesn't seem to care much about inherited prospects. He let Foster, Malic, Poppovic, and Skoula go without thinking twice about it. He wouldn't acquire these guys if he didn't want them on the Ducks. It makes no sense. If it's so obvious that Kondratchev wants to go back to Russia than why trade Sykora for him? Why not just put him on waivers and save a draft pick? Burke isn't an idiot, he intends to use Kondratchev, trust me.

This is all moot anyway because Shane O'Brien is not that good. At best he could be a 6th/7th d-man. Smid is going to be a stud and we came across a couple guys in Beachemin and DiPenta who might stick around for a while. Plus Vish is still pretty young and we've got Scotty for another three years. This plus Brendan Mikkleson should be good in couple years too, we just don't need Shane O'Brien at all. Bottom line, Smid will be on this team and if there's another spot to be filled, Burke will bring in a FA. Which will leave O'Brien, if he's still on the payroll, third in line to be called up.

Quite frankly, I'd rather have Salei over Jovo or another high priced alternative. Salei after a rocky start has been great.

Hockey is a business and GMs are businessmen, especially Burkey. They don't just draft players or trade for them on a whim and just kind of check up on them on occasion. You take a guy high in the draft or you trade one of your marque players for one, you better believe they are going to give that guy a better shot over the dude who was taken in the third round or so.

Sure you believe that when you take them, but a year or two later none of that matters. If in that time the 3rd rounder proves to be the better player you act accordingly. Otherwise you follow one mistake with another and as the saying goes 'two wrongs don't make a right'.

Burke dropped Smirnov like a hot potato, so he understands what I'm talking about. Popovic too.

This is why Penner gets sent down so much. He is an all benefit situation being we scooped him up outta nowhere. Getzy and Perry have a lot more pressure on them to perform.

Getzlaf and Perry are better players at the moment. Penner NEEDs to be in the AHL and they don't.

If it's so obvious that Kondratchev wants to go back to Russia than why trade Sykora for him? Why not just put him on waivers and save a draft pick? Burke isn't an idiot, he intends to use Kondratchev, trust me.

Burke hopes to get lucky. Getting an asset instead of nothing is smart. Assuming that asset has an inside track to a roster spot is dumb.

This is all moot anyway because Shane O'Brien is not that good. At best he could be a 6th/7th d-man. Smid is going to be a stud and we came across a couple guys in Beachemin and DiPenta who might stick around for a while. Plus Vish is still pretty young and we've got Scotty for another three years. This plus Brendan Mikkleson should be good in couple years too, we just don't need Shane O'Brien at all. Bottom line, Smid will be on this team and if there's another spot to be filled, Burke will bring in a FA. Which will leave O'Brien, if he's still on the payroll, third in line to be called up.

Time will tell. I see a lot of 'ifs' in all of that.

I know this is a theory most of you disagree with but I feel it's something GM's seriously consider. How a prospect is acquired has a factor in their developement. Lke say if we draft someone 7th overall or trade one of our defensemen for him. They have to protect their investments. I feel Smid, Kondratchev and Skinner are all ahead of O'Brien. We have no idea what's going on with Kondratchev but I really don't think Burke would have acquired him if he's just going to go back to Russia. We all thought Bryzgalov was going back to Russia and thought he didn't want to be here and have now found out that's not the case.



I hope Burke is smarter than that. I hope the best d-man makes the team not the player he traded for or drafted earlier.

Burke would trade for Kondratiev knowing he might go back to Russia...because it was common knowledge...The Rangers couldn't say anything to him to guarantee Kondratiev would be in North America in 06-07..that is up to Burke to figure out.

The fact is Kondratiev is a project with high upside and was an okay return for a guy we needed to get out of our lockerroom. Remember Bryzgalov was on contract for this season and Kondratiev is not on contract for next season. Bryzgalov was guaranteed an NHL roster spot, Kondratiev is not.

I've had a few chats with O'Brien and I will always cheer for him to make it to the NHL. He is a team guy all the way and he is a great teammate. He will do anything to win and is a great character guy to have in Anaheim some day. I can't say any of those things about Kondratiev, at least not yet.

This is why Penner gets sent down so much. He is an all benefit situation being we scooped him up outta nowhere. Getzy and Perry have a lot more pressure on them to perform.

Also, like I said, Burke doesn't seem to care much about inherited prospects. He let Foster, Malic, Poppovic, and Skoula go without thinking twice about it.

This is all moot anyway because Shane O'Brien is not that good. At best he could be a 6th/7th d-man. Smid is going to be a stud and we came across a couple guys in Beachemin and DiPenta who might stick around for a while. Plus Vish is still pretty young and we've got Scotty for another three years. This plus Brendan Mikkleson should be good in couple years too, we just don't need Shane O'Brien at all. Bottom line, Smid will be on this team and if there's another spot to be filled, Burke will bring in a FA. Which will leave O'Brien, if he's still on the payroll, third in line to be called up.

Penner gets sent down a lot because Perry and Getzlaf are better NHLers than him right now, nothing to do with them being first round picks and he being a signed free agent.

None of those 4 inherited d-man play Brian Burke hockey. Shane O'Brien plays Brian Burke hockey.

O'Brien has higher upside than DiPenta. Mikkelson is 3 years away at least. 1 more in the WHL and 2 in the AHL realistically. O'Brien is a great character guy to have as a #6 d-man, I'm getting a little tired of you hating on him.

Burke hopes to get lucky. Getting an asset instead of nothing is smart. Assuming that asset has an inside track to a roster spot is dumb.



Agreed! Kondratiev is an asset and that is it. He may be in North America in 06-07 he might not be. He might be thrown into a future trade. His chances of making the team in Anaheim depend completly on his performance in the AHL and training camp and have nothing to do with Burke wanting to get something out of the Sykora trade.

Burke wanted Sykora away, he really didn't care much about what was coming back as long as Sykora and his piss-poor attitude were gone.

O'Brien is Carlyle & Burke type of a player, great lockerroom player, always ready to stick up for the team. I don't think they will let him go.

IHMO I'd much rather have O'Brien than O'Donnell as our 6th d-man but most likely nobody will take O'Donnell's contract from us.

I'm not hating on the guy I'm just being realistic. It's a phenomenon amongst Ducks fans that really like marginal players that are stuck in the minors, Cam Severson comes to mind. They fact of the matter is Shane was an eighth-rounder, three year minor pro who is a bubble player. I know you guys aren't talking like he's going be our next great d-man, merely a capable 6th or 7th, but the problem I have is Smid is being groomed to come here and trading for guys and not using them makes no sense.

If you look at the history of this team we have drafted many d-men but the one's we've taken in the first round always get more attention, always. Plus I base how I feel Burke treats players he's traded for by the callup of Bruno St. Jacques. At the end of camp it seemed that the pecking order for callups would be Rome, Smid and O'Brien. But once he got traded here he was the first called up. Hell I thought Rome was gonna make the team over DiPenta. To me, it's just common sense. It made real mad that Foster, Malec, and Skoula were just given away because they were all traded for good players. I undestand that these weren't Burke's guys and that's why he let them go but I would be upset to know the two guys we got for Sykora and Carney never get a chance. We got O'Brien in the 8th round, no one had to be moved to get him and we didn't have to pass on a better player to get him.

I'm sorry I gripe so much about this but it's just how I feel. I dunno, maybe I'll be completely wrong and O'Brien might be the next Keith Carney. Who knows? At least we aren't debating what's wrong with this team and why we aren't winning. It's good that the only thing we have to whine about is who get's called up next.

I'm not hating on the guy I'm just being realistic. It's a phenomenon amongst Ducks fans that really like marginal players that are stuck in the minors, Cam Severson comes to mind. They fact of the matter is Shane was an eighth-rounder, three year minor pro who is a bubble player. I know you guys aren't talking like he's going be our next great d-man, merely a capable 6th or 7th, but the problem I have is Smid is being groomed to come here and trading for guys and not using them makes no sense.


O'Brien potential>>>>>>anything Severson ever was or ever was projected to be.

I think the important thing with Burke is character. He trades for a guy like Kondratiev because he is an asset, it doesn't mean that Burke finds Kondratiev to be someone who fits in his plan. Burke wants guys who are hungry to win. He shipped out the guys that weren't willing to pay the price to win like Fedorov and Sykora. On character alone O'Brien has a much greater chance of getting called up than Kondratiev.

O'Brien deserves some credit for leading Portland in D-man scoring. Anyone who can do that while bringing a physical element and leadership to the table is not a marginal player.

O'Brien can play PP, SH, ES without any problems, he's not the fastest guy around but he's not any slower than say O'Donnell. Great lockerroom player, plays extremely physical and can fight almost everyone (not saying he can beat heavyweights but he's not embarassed either).

He's just the type of player both Carlyle and Burke like.

Kondratiev...A moody russian who's thinking about returning to Russia. Those of you who see Burke liking that type of player, please raise your hand.

If you look at the history of this team we have drafted many d-men but the one's we've taken in the first round always get more attention, always.

Well maybe they are just better players?

Plus I base how I feel Burke treats players he's traded for by the callup of Bruno St. Jacques. At the end of camp it seemed that the pecking order for callups would be Rome, Smid and O'Brien. But once he got traded here he was the first called up.

When he was the best player, based on what Dineen told Burke, St Jacques was the first call up.

All we're trying to tell you is leave out the names and leave out how the player was acquired. The best player gets the roster spot.

Well maybe they are just better players?



When he was the best player, based on what Dineen told Burke, St Jacques was the first call up.

All we're trying to tell you is leave out the names and leave out how the player was acquired. The best player gets the roster spot.

That's valid but my problem is none of us actually watch Portland play. How do any of us know O'Brien is any better than Kondratchev? Because he has more points? Nic Havelid had more points than Carney his last two years, that didn't him our best defensemen. For all we know Kondratchev just didn't like being in NY/Hartford. Look at Bryzgalov, he is completely different than what everyone made him out to be. Plus id he got called up he has fellow Russians/Belarussians in Vish, Bryz and Rusty to make him feel comfortable.

But the one factor I think that weights most overall if NHL experience which Kondratchev (of and if I'm spelling his name wrong let me know :) ) has. I dunno, I'm sorry I keep opening up this wound but I like Brian Burke a lot and I don't think he's an idiot but if he traded Sykora and a draft pick for a player that isn't likely to play here than that was a very stupid move. There were plenty of teams that would have given us something better than that. Which also would have completely nulified Rucchin's trade because we knoe Trevor Gilles has no future here.

There are several posters here who have been watching Portland/Cincy games.

And at this point O'Brien is far ahead in terms of NHL-readiness, he was this close of making the it to NHL after pre-season.

That's valid but my problem is none of us actually watch Portland play. How do any of us know O'Brien is any better than Kondratchev?

We don't need to know. We trust that Burke and Carlyle know which is better.

But the one factor I think that weights most overall if NHL experience which Kondratchev has.

That was never a factor with Malec in this organization. It may play a part now, it may not.

I dunno, I'm sorry I keep opening up this wound but I like Brian Burke a lot and I don't think he's an idiot but if he traded Sykora and a draft pick for a player that isn't likely to play here than that was a very stupid move. There were plenty of teams that would have given us something better than that.

Sykora has a large contract this year and how many teams wanted that? Fewer than you think, I think. The draft pick going to NY was "encouragement" to take on that salary. Similar to how Philly paid LA to take Roenick off them.

Which also would have completely nulified Rucchin's trade because we knoe Trevor Gilles has no future here.

Rucchin had no future here, Burke wanted to go another direction. Ultimately Marchant off waivers.

I like Brian Burke a lot and I don't think he's an idiot but if he traded Sykora and a draft pick for a player that isn't likely to play here than that was a very stupid move. There were plenty of teams that would have given us something better than that.

I'm not so sure about that.

That was never a factor with Malec in this organization. It may play a part now, it may not.



Good example. I agree Kondratiev could be in the same boat as Malec.

I would, just once, like to see Vish paired with Niedermayer... just once.

By the way, anyone notice how long of shifts Vish is taking? He doesn't like to leave the ice...

There are several posters here who have been watching Portland/Cincy games.

And at this point O'Brien is far ahead in terms of NHL-readiness, he was this close of making the it to NHL after pre-season.

Just to clear the air I really respect your guys opinions and I genuinely enjoy our arguements. It's what I really like about these boards as opposed to the MD.com boards.

Anyhow, I watched this team in camp and most the pre-season games and Rome and Smid were both better than O'Brien. The one guy who made the team was DiPenta who had NHL experience. Say what you will about Carlyle already knowing the guy but he didn't impress me in camp but made the team away. Coachs and GMs will call up a guy with NHL experience first 9 out of 10 times. Like if someone went down right now, St. Jacques gets the call, guarantee it.

Also, if you ask BB about all the "salary dumps" he made he'll tell you that we got something out of each one. He didn't just give these players away. I haven't got a doubt in my mind that he intends on using Kondratchev on this team in the future. A bunch of teams wanted him and at the LEAST he could have gotten a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him. Giving back a pick he had acquired from than plus a player that apparently is a flight risk and is just playing out the rest of this year is crap, total crap. Have any of us spoken to Kondratchev before? Do we really know that's what he's going to do? He's playing on a great AHL team and in a good organization, it's not too far fetched to think he may want to stay.

If you really want to know whose closer on the callup line, ask the guy who writes for this site. Forbsy's got O'Brien below Smid, Kondratchev AND Rome.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't O'Brien the last d-man cut from the team before the season started and Burke had some very positive comments about his play?

Rome better than O'Brien? I heard the opposite.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't O'Brien the last d-man cut from the team before the season started and Burke had some very positive comments about his play?

Rome better than O'Brien? I heard the opposite.

My recollection is that Rome was the last d-man cut, not O'Brien.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't O'Brien the last d-man cut from the team before the season started and Burke had some very positive comments about his play?

Rome better than O'Brien? I heard the opposite.

This is something I observed myself. Rome played the last two preseason games and look good, I totally thought he was going to make the team. O'Brien was part of the last cuts I think but there was no doubt he was going to Portland.

My recollection is that Rome was the last d-man cut, not O'Brien.
I thought that was the case as well.

Personally, I have higher expectations of Rome in the future than O'Brien.

My recollection is that Rome was the last d-man cut, not O'Brien.

yeah Rome actually was cut after O'Brien...but Rome played in the kids game vs the Kings and O'Brien played in the real game.

but Rome played in the kids game vs the Kings and O'Brien played in the real game.
Rome also played in pre-season games against Pheonix, San Jose and Vancouver.

Rome also played in pre-season games against Pheonix, San Jose and Vancouver.

yeah your right, O'Brien got the first audition. Rome played a safer game so he got a longer look once he got his chance.