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Randall Graves* 03-15-2006, 01:41 PM Link! (http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/pros/mightyducks/article_1048838.php)
"It's hard to praise one player, implying that the rest of the group isn't worthy of consideration," General Manager Brian Burke said. "I don't mean to do that, but I've seen all the top defensemen, and Scott Niedermayer is the best defenseman in the league by a wide margin."
Since Burke tends to be pretty objective what do you guys think? Everyones been slurping Lidstrom, and rightfully so but I don't think 27 is that far behind.
Brodeur 03-15-2006, 02:36 PM They don't hand out Norris Trophy's to just anybody........
Don't think I agree with 'best by a wide margin', but Niedermayer certainly is in a class with Lidstrom, Pronger, etc etc.
The Mailman* 03-15-2006, 02:42 PM Burke signed him for a ridiculous amount, he better damn well be the best D-man in his eyes
Ajacied 03-15-2006, 02:43 PM Gainey, Armstrong and Tippet also think Zubov is the best/2nd best defenseman in the game. They can be as objective as they want, but what are they suppose to say?
I'm not reading too much into a coach's opinions of its own players, though I probably do agree Niedermayer is a top 5 defenseman in the NHL, probably 2nd best to Lidstrom even, just not sure that's the case this year.
banana phone 03-15-2006, 02:45 PM this year hes # 2 behind Lidstrom, I would have Zubov at # 3.
Kevin Forbes 03-15-2006, 03:01 PM I think the market hurts him a bit.
Say what you want about attendance in New Jersey, the media took notice to the Devils. In Anaheim, all season, they're flying a bit under the radar.
Randall Graves* 03-15-2006, 03:10 PM Gainey, Armstrong and Tippet also think Zubov is the best/2nd best defenseman in the game. They can be as objective as they want, but what are they suppose to say?
I'm not reading too much into a coach's opinions of its own players, though I probably do agree Niedermayer is a top 5 defenseman in the NHL, probably 2nd best to Lidstrom even, just not sure that's the case this year.
he played 2 months on 1 leg and was still better than most of the defensemen in the league. Burke tends to be pretty objective about players so I thought his comment was interesting, do I agree? No.
I think he is right behind Lidstrom along with Chara, watching Pronger I don't see why people think he's that great. Good player? Yes, but takes stupid penalties, and gets killed by quick forwards. Maybe it's his injury, but Nieds had an injury and it didn't effect him much.
Pwnasaurus 03-15-2006, 03:16 PM Pronger has something a lot of the guys mentioned don't have and that's a booming heavy shot from the point and a physical side to his game. That being said I think Nieds, Lidstrom, Pronger are all top 5 d-men in the league.
Pepper 03-15-2006, 03:19 PM Lidström plays in a team with 7 other 40+ point players and 6 20+ goal scorers.
Zubov plays with 5 40+ point players and 4 20+ goal players.
Niedermayer plays with team that has 3 20+ goal players (none of them has over 30!) and 3 40+ point players.
Niedermayer's stats would be much better if the team in front of him had a real 2nd line. In my books he's atleast no.2 d-man in the league this year and I won't argue with anyone who says he's no.1. The 'wide margin' is something I don't agree with though.
8snake 03-15-2006, 03:31 PM Well, this isnt the first time Burke opened his mouth and **** flew out of it. Lidstrom is an all time great playing some of his best hockey....I think that alone says enough.
McDonald19 03-15-2006, 07:36 PM I wouldn't trade Nieds for any d-man in the league...well maybe Phaneuf because of the age difference...but the point is yeah Niedermayer is the best D-man this team has ever had, he makes everyone around him better and has earned the big paycheck so far.
Kick Save 03-15-2006, 07:56 PM I agree that Niedermayer is the best d-man in the league. I think you have to watch him every day to get some feel for how good he is. A lot of what he does doesn't appear in the box scores. For example, I've seen him "jump into the play" in the offense end, the puck turns over quickly and there's a breakaway and Scott races down the ice to break up the play at the other end. I've seen him do it many times this year.
Although he's relatively quiet, he leads by example. I think he's the best captain the Ducks have had.
Maybe I should watch Lidstrom more and maybe I'm a homer, but I'd rather have Niedermayer than any other d-man. I'm also convinced there isn't a better skater in the NHL.
Spankatola Jamnuts 03-15-2006, 08:59 PM Well, this isnt the first time Burke opened his mouth and **** flew out of it. Lidstrom is an all time great playing some of his best hockey....I think that alone says enough.
Niedermayer isn't an all-time great playing his best hockey?
McDonald19 03-15-2006, 09:16 PM Niedermayer isn't an all-time great playing his best hockey?
Exactly he will be in the Hall of Fame with Lidstrom so 8snake does not make much of a point.
Randall Graves* 03-15-2006, 10:10 PM Exactly he will be in the Hall of Fame with Lidstrom so 8snake does not make much of a point.
I thought 8snake was talking about himself when he was talking about **** flying out of the mouth.
ILuvLA 03-15-2006, 10:15 PM Neids is defininitely within the top 3.
norrisnick 03-15-2006, 10:41 PM I'd say it's a battle of the smooth veterans this year. Lidstrom then Niedermayer/Zubov.
Randall Graves* 03-15-2006, 10:43 PM I'd say it's a battle of the smooth veterans this year. Lidstrom then Niedermayer/Zubov.
I would agree with this, it's easy to forget about Zubov. I like Chara alot and he can dominate games, but then you see him knocked off the puck by freddy modin leading to a goal.
Hasbro 03-16-2006, 04:52 PM Link! (http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/pros/mightyducks/article_1048838.php)
Since Burke tends to be pretty objective what do you guys think? Everyones been slurping Lidstrom, and rightfully so but I don't think 27 is that far behind.
Burke's not prone to hyperbole at all! :sarcasm:
Burke's Evil Spirit 03-16-2006, 05:11 PM Burke said Ed Jovanovski was a future Team Canada captain.
ice berg slim 03-16-2006, 05:16 PM its hard to argue
Niedermayer isn't an all-time great playing his best hockey?
Are you comparing Niedermayer with Denis Potvin and Doug Harvey? Or Paul Coffey, Chris Chelios, Ray Bourque, Red Kelly?
Exactly he will be in the Hall of Fame with Lidstrom so 8snake does not make much of a point.
Well, Lidstrom will most likely end his career as a top ten defenseman in the history of the NHL. Will Niedermayer?
No. He sure won't.
Lidstrom will be compared with the likes of Bourque, Coffey, Robinson, Shore.
Niedermayer is one of my favorite d-men, I've coveted him for a long time. However, no one can touch Lidstrom right now. He's in the top 20 in scoring, tops in the league defensively. He is the key to the Red Wings.
Lidstrom will be an all-time great. And he derserves to - and will - win the Norris Trophy this year.
Spankatola Jamnuts 03-16-2006, 10:48 PM Are you comparing Niedermayer with Denis Potvin and Doug Harvey? Or Paul Coffey, Chris Chelios, Ray Bourque, Red Kelly?
You have some reason why I shouldn't?
You have some reason why I shouldn't?
Do you have some reason why you should?
deesee 03-17-2006, 12:59 AM He was one of the defensive leaders of an east coast dynasty with the Devils; he's also a proven winner.
McDonald19 03-17-2006, 01:11 AM Well, Lidstrom will most likely end his career as a top ten defenseman in the history of the NHL. Will Niedermayer?
No. He sure won't.
Lidstrom will be compared with the likes of Bourque, Coffey, Robinson, Shore.
Niedermayer is one of my favorite d-men, I've coveted him for a long time. However, no one can touch Lidstrom right now. He's in the top 20 in scoring, tops in the league defensively. He is the key to the Red Wings.
Lidstrom will be an all-time great. And he derserves to - and will - win the Norris Trophy this year.
Niedermayer could be a borderline top 10 all time d-man if he plays another 5-6 years at least and also if he can have success with the Ducks.
Yeah Lidstrom deserves to win the trophy this year, but I wouldn't trade Niedermayer for Lidstrom from a Ducks point of view.
Hockeyfan02 03-17-2006, 01:47 AM then you see him knocked off the puck by freddy modin leading to a goal.
If you're refering to Lecavalier's goal the other night, it was Prospal who knocked him off the puck making it even worse. Chara has games where he takes a lot of obstruction calls from some games I've watched. I think he needs to stay out of the box more to be up there with Lidstrom-Nieds-Zubov. But when he's on his game, he's as dominant as anyone.
Scott needs to win a few more Norris trophies or a cup with the Ducks to be considered a top 10 d-man IMO. Definitely a first ballot HOF for his time in Jersey and success everywhere he's been (juniors, intl tournaments).
Randall Graves* 03-17-2006, 02:11 AM Do you have some reason why you should?
3 stanley cups, a gold medal and a Norris trophy?
Randall Graves* 03-17-2006, 02:13 AM If you're refering to Lecavalier's goal the other night, it was Prospal who knocked him off the puck making it even worse. Chara has games where he takes a lot of obstruction calls from some games I've watched. I think he needs to stay out of the box more to be up there with Lidstrom-Nieds-Zubov. But when he's on his game, he's as dominant as anyone.
Scott needs to win a few more Norris trophies or a cup with the Ducks to be considered a top 10 d-man IMO. Definitely a first ballot HOF for his time in Jersey and success everywhere he's been (juniors, intl tournaments).
LOL my bad that does make it worse...I never saw Prospal knock a guy off the puck here. You know what's interesting, is how some players get so hyped up you believe they are so great and not prone to mistakes, then you watch them and go 'huh'? that could've been the case with Scott Niedermayer, luckily it wasn't.
Niedermayer could be a borderline top 10 all time d-man if he plays another 5-6 years at least and also if he can have success with the Ducks.
Yeah Lidstrom deserves to win the trophy this year, but I wouldn't trade Niedermayer for Lidstrom from a Ducks point of view.
Well, no offence, McDonald19, but I think expecting a top ten all-time D-man spot for Niedermayer is extremely optimistic. Like I said, I really, really like Scott Niedermayer. If I could pick three defensemen to have on my team they would be Lidstrom, Redden, and Niedermayer. My three favorites.
I just think there are too many ahead of Niedermayer for him to even sniff the top ten, and Lidstrom is one of them.
As for not trading Niedermayer for Lidstrom, great. As a Detroit fan, I wouldn't do that deal, either. ;)
3 stanley cups, a gold medal and a Norris trophy?
....Yeah....
Look, I like Niedermayer, man! I just don't think Bourque, Coffey, Niedermayer....whereas I have no problem putting Lidstrom there.
Sorry.
Pwnasaurus 03-17-2006, 09:14 AM If I could pick three defensemen to have on my team they would be Lidstrom, Redden, and Niedermayer.)
You would have the softest team in the league
You would have the softest team in the league
Not if they were paired up with physical stay-at-home defensemen.
MetalMilitia 03-17-2006, 02:09 PM What is Burke smokin'? He can't be honest...there's no way! His quote is probably just a confidence boost to Scotty for the playoff stretch. A big reason why Scotty won the Norris last season was because Lidstrom had an off-year, let's be honest here. If Lidstrom had another one of his consistently dominate seasons he would have won his 4th consecutive Norris trophy, period.
Pwnasaurus 03-17-2006, 02:25 PM What is Burke smokin'? He can't be honest...there's no way! His quote is probably just a confidence boost to Scotty for the playoff stretch. A big reason why Scotty won the Norris last season was because Lidstrom had an off-year, let's be honest here. If Lidstrom had another one of his consistently dominate seasons he would have won his 4th consecutive Norris trophy, period.
Bias much? I'll get my prying bar, wait here...
Pepper 03-17-2006, 03:02 PM What is Burke smokin'? He can't be honest...there's no way! His quote is probably just a confidence boost to Scotty for the playoff stretch. A big reason why Scotty won the Norris last season was because Lidstrom had an off-year, let's be honest here. If Lidstrom had another one of his consistently dominate seasons he would have won his 4th consecutive Norris trophy, period.
Duly noted. :shakehead
MetalMilitia 03-17-2006, 03:03 PM Bias much? I'll get my prying bar, wait here...
So you're sayin' you disagree? You think Niedermayer is better than Lidstrom? Sure my post was bias, that's natural , but my point was made fairly clear, and that was that Lidstrom is BETTER than Niedermayer.
Pepper 03-17-2006, 03:15 PM So you're sayin' you disagree? You think Niedermayer is better than Lidstrom? Sure my post was bias, that's natural , but my point was made fairly clear, and that was that Lidstrom is BETTER than Niedermayer.
Please go back to letsgoredwings.com, we really couldn't care less what you think.
Pwnasaurus 03-17-2006, 03:21 PM So you're sayin' you disagree? You think Niedermayer is better than Lidstrom? Sure my post was bias, that's natural , but my point was made fairly clear, and that was that Lidstrom is BETTER than Niedermayer.
I originally stated my view...top 3 in no particular order, Niedermayer, Lidstrom, Pronger. Each one brings a different skill set to the mix and all 3 equally get the job done in their own way. I play no favorites, you alluded in your last post that Lidstrom is inconsistent as he was gracious enough to let Niedermayer win a Norris last year....I see your lips are still attached to Nicky...now where was that prying bar....
Randall Graves* 03-17-2006, 04:43 PM ....Yeah....
Look, I like Niedermayer, man! I just don't think Bourque, Coffey, Niedermayer....whereas I have no problem putting Lidstrom there.
Sorry.
You asked for reasons. He's the only player to ever win a cup, gold medal, norris, wjc gold. And right now he's on pace to have the best offensive season of his career despite playing on one leg for 2 months. In the finals against the ducks a few years ago, he was the Devils best player and probably would have won the Conn Smythe had Giguere not won it.
Randall Graves* 03-17-2006, 04:44 PM What is Burke smokin'? He can't be honest...there's no way! His quote is probably just a confidence boost to Scotty for the playoff stretch. A big reason why Scotty won the Norris last season was because Lidstrom had an off-year, let's be honest here. If Lidstrom had another one of his consistently dominate seasons he would have won his 4th consecutive Norris trophy, period.
Too bad he didn't. Scott Niedermayer was the best defensemen that year, get over it.
lux_interior 03-17-2006, 10:36 PM What is Burke smokin'? He can't be honest...there's no way! His quote is probably just a confidence boost to Scotty for the playoff stretch. A big reason why Scotty won the Norris last season was because Lidstrom had an off-year, let's be honest here. If Lidstrom had another one of his consistently dominate seasons he would have won his 4th consecutive Norris trophy, period.
This is just another way of minimizing the success Niedermayer had in 04. He was clearly the best, and deserved the Norris.
That being said, and I hate to agree with some biased Red Wings fans, Niedermayer is not a top 10 all time defenseman. Not at this point of his career. Maybe if he continues for another (at least) 5 years and wins a couple more Norris trophies, and maybe a Conn Smythe.
He is however top 2-3 in the league currently. Not the best by a wide margin, though.
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