Bolts Re-claim Sheldon Keefe

Is he still considered a prospect?

http://messageboard.tampabaylightning.com/InfoPop/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=004197

-Sharon

Just as I finished my post on the other thread, this one popped up. Wow. I'll have to say I'm surprised.

Damn I wanted Dudley to get him but I figured Feaster would pick him back up.

Damn I wanted Dudley to get him but I figured Feaster would pick him back up.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dudley does get him. Feaster knows he likes him, and how much will dictate what the Lightning get in return when Jay trades him to Duds.

A pick? A prospect?

Told you the whole waiver draft brew-ha-ha was a lot about nothing.

Im glad hes back

And a strong Hershey Bears team just got even better. Gawd, Fixter must be loving this because Keefe has only played ~200 pro games, so he doesn't yet qualify as an AHL vet.

Tampa has now supplied Hershey with half of its scoring lines, not counting Alexeev.

Hershey is stinking loaded.

Told you the whole waiver draft brew-ha-ha was a lot about nothing.

Told-you-so posts are so endearing. At least you got through a post without blasting Modin, though.

Told-you-so posts are so endearing.

And in this case, revisionist if you look at LastoftheMonkey's last post two weeks ago.

-Pete Choquette

No Keefe is not considered a prospect anymore by HF criteria.

Dudley doesn't have any MONEY to get Keefe otherwise he could've grabbed him in the WD. Could have something to do with what "genius" Dudley is paying the reacquired and ultra-useless husband of DJ Tanner.

-Pete Choquette

No Keefe is not considered a prospect anymore by HF criteria.

Dudley doesn't have any MONEY to get Keefe otherwise he could've grabbed him in the WD. Could have something to do with what "genius" Dudley is paying the reacquired and ultra-useless husband of DJ Tanner.

-Pete Choquette
The word is Dudley wants Keefe but his salarys are at its limit in Florida. They will move some one soon and make a pitch for Keefe. I honestly believe Keefe would be better in Tampa than either of Ciback or Afanasankov and the players really like Keefe from all indications. Whats Pete and every one's opinion on Tampa ever giving Keefe another shot ?

It won't happen. I think he's as good as buried, and if you read the article in the Trib... he knows it.

That said, we should NOT give him away to a division rival.

You have to admit reacquiring Val Bure was a dumb deal fiscally. I can't believe that sucker thought he could get Bure to renegotiate down to less money.

-Pete Choquette

It won't happen. I think he's as good as buried, and if you read the article in the Trib... he knows it.

That said, we should NOT give him away to a division rival.

You have to admit reacquiring Val Bure was a dumb deal fiscally. I can't believe that sucker thought he could get Bure to renegotiate down to less money.

-Pete Choquette

No it wasn't, we got a terrific prospect in Mike Van Ryn for Val Bure and then we re-acquired Val Bure because if we would not have picked him back up off waivers from St. Louis some team would have picked Val up and we would be paying most of his 3.1 mil garenteed contract because former GM Murray gave it to him, so basically its either pay all his salary and have him in the organization or pay all his salary and have him playing on another team now which one would you pick? :o

Yeah Feaster picked up Sheldon Keefe no surprise there he loves those Dudley players no? HAHA :rolly: :moon: :rolly:

No, you're right. Dudley's a genius. He's spending $3.1M on Val Bure on a team with a whopping $26.4M payroll. Think about that Panther fan. Val Bure is eating 12% of your payroll. Boggles the mind doesn't it?

Enough to make one think maybe Rick Dudley isn't the "genius" Panther fan would have you believe he is. I mean, even if the Panthers are on the hook for 3/4 of that they still could've saved around 775K by not reacquiring Bure. Know what 775K could've bought? The avoidance of the indignity of the Hurme fiasco for one thing.

How naive is Rick Dudley if he actually believed Bure would take a pay cut? I'm sure there are some smart folks down there lining up to sell that sucker, errrrrrr, "genius" some swamp land to buy at low low prices.

-Pete Choquette

Yeah Feaster picked up Sheldon Keefe no surprise there he loves those Dudley players no? HAHA

He loves them IN THE MINORS.

-Pete Choquette

Keefe believes he belongs in the NHL. He would be there if it wasn't for his size. He will learn soon though, just like St. Louis and Perrin have learned, that when your less than 6 foot the road to the NHL is short, narrow, and periless. I hope he playes well for Hershey so that he can resurrect his career

Keefe believes he belongs in the NHL. He would be there if it wasn't for his size. He will learn soon though, just like St. Louis and Perrin have learned, that when your less than 6 foot the road to the NHL is short, narrow, and periless. I hope he playes well for Hershey so that he can resurrect his career

If you read the comments in the papers, he's in the minors because of his skating.

Does his size hurt him? Probably in that he bounces off players and gets knocked to the ice easily playing the style he does.

However, what STL (whom you inaccurately compared to Jagr) has used to get the big show is his speed and offensive ablility.

There are a ton of <6' players in the NHL. Keefe's no midget.

I did not inaccuratly compare him to Jagr

St. Louis however is the only player who can single handedly dominate a game, much like Jagr.

..

Is this not true?

No, you're right. Dudley's a genius. He's spending $3.1M on Val Bure on a team with a whopping $26.4M payroll. Think about that Panther fan. Val Bure is eating 12% of your payroll. Boggles the mind doesn't it?

Enough to make one think maybe Rick Dudley isn't the "genius" Panther fan would have you believe he is. I mean, even if the Panthers are on the hook for 3/4 of that they still could've saved around 775K by not reacquiring Bure. Know what 775K could've bought? The avoidance of the indignity of the Hurme fiasco for one thing.

How naive is Rick Dudley if he actually believed Bure would take a pay cut? I'm sure there are some smart folks down there lining up to sell that sucker, errrrrrr, "genius" some swamp land to buy at low low prices.

-Pete Choquette

Wow now we are rolling in cash big time~! No I would rather HAVE Val Bure here scoring or as trade bait then have us paying more than half that expensive salary playing on another team (i.e. Murray trading an injured Ray Whitney to Columbus 2 years ago and we were paying half his salary while watching him rack up all those pts for the Blue Jackets).

As for Hurme we don't care about him because he had a bad training camp and bad pre-season, Dudley got us Steve Shields and Shields so far has been the only goalie to not give the hot Atlanta Thrashers a single pt so that speaks volume huh Lightning fan? Also Travis Scott has been one of the AHL's top goaltenders and all Dudley did was sign him so wrong again Lightning fan!

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=58216&hubName=

``We are extremely pleased to have Sheldon back in the fold,'' said GM Jay Feaster. ``As I said at the time of the waiver draft, we never wanted to lose him, so the fact that he is back means we're exactly where we had wanted to be coming out of this year's waiver draft.''

Yeah that definitely sounds like he doesn't want Keefe to stay in TB, wrong again Lightning fan :D

No I would rather HAVE Val Bure here scoring or as trade bait

And what great bait a guy who makes $3.1M and doesn't score consistently and simply hasn't at all over the last two seasons is :roll eyes: I'm sure teams are beating down the Panthers door trying to get Val Bure's sorry underachieving butt on their squad ::sarcasm dripping:: If for no other reason than to get DJ Tanner to come to some of THIER home games! ::sarcasm pooling::

As for Hurme we don't care about him because he had a bad training camp and bad pre-season

You really DO believe every press release and snippet the Panther organization puts out don't you? Par for the course for Rick Dudley. Coming in every player is Wayne Gretzky or Patrick Roy reincarnate. Going out: demonize them as the worst thing since venereal diseases and child molestors. That also contributes to the neverending downward spiral of a Rick Dudley GMed team. He shows zero respect to his players as people.

And, oh wow Shields had ONE good game!?!?!?! Should we award the Vezina to him now or go through the formality of this whole 82 game season and playoffs thing? ::sarcasm dripping::

Steve Shields is still the goaltender who had a losing record and a sub-.900 sv% on a playoff caliber Boston team last year and who was so bad that he was GIVEN away to the Fecal Cats with salary picked up to boot. Tell me something Panther fan, how many All-Stars do you see getting dealt for nothing AND having part of their salary picked up? Or is that generally reserved for players like Steve Shields who suck the fattest of donkeys?

Yeah that definitely sounds like he doesn't want Keefe to stay in TB, wrong again Lightning fan

Considering the first thing he did was demote the guy to Hershey, I'd say you're the one who is wrong. But its ok, I understand its hard to get current info like that when your tongue is fused to the inside lining of Rick Dudley's colon.

-Pete Choquette

Stop, thats just wrong

No, that's not true. STL does not "take over" games. Watch Kovalchuk some time. He can do it. STL is a great, great player, but he's not in the superstar category you're putting him in with that comparison.

:shakehead


How can u say that Kovalchuck is a super star but not St. Louis.

St. Louis is a game breaker, and so are the afore mentioned individuals.

Easily, Woody.

I guess if the only team you pay any attention to is Tampa Bay, then this is hard to grasp.

Kovalchuk is a superstar. You can't let him go for one second, or the puck is in the net. 60 goals is a realistic possibility for him this year. STL can't do that. STL can play with Richards and Stillman all year and not do that. I love STL, but he's just a great player and a non-All-Star starter. Kovalchuk will hit 60 with Marc Savard and a potpourri of secondary talent on his line. Kovalchuk and Jagr are perrennial All-Star starters. One has been, the other will be. STL be a nice choice for the All-Star game, but probably won't go to the next 5 in a row.

Do you really think that St. Louis is in the same class as Kovalchuk and Jagr and Forsberg and Lidstrom and other superstars? Please.

Game breaker? Sure. A game here or a game there. He's consistently great at what he does, but he's not a superstar.

If putting up points is the only thing that matters than I guess your right. I mean, defense and other intangibles mean nothing in the game today. Just look at Pavel Bure, hes easily the best player in the game because he can get a hat trick on any given night. :lol:

You take a shot at Bure because he does not play defense and now say that points are not the only thing that matter because, obviously, you're pointing to STL's 2-way game as the reason for calling him a superstar.

You compared STL to Jagr in how he can "single handedly take over a game." You were NOT thinking offense here?

When has Jagr played defense? (hint: as much as Bure)

Jagr is/was considered the best in the game because he could get a hat-trick on any given night (as you point to Bure as doing). (This is what people who take over games do -- they CAN score hattricks on any given night.)

If a gamebreaker, in your mind, is now a guy who is known for defense and doing the intangibles, then Magnus Arvedson and Jere Lehtinen are now game breaking superstars and why were you saying STL is a Jagr?

If for no other reason than to get DJ Tanner to come to some of THIER home games! ::sarcasm pooling::


Please stop now your embarassing yourself Mr.Saget and go back to playing with Joey.


You really DO believe every press release and snippet the Panther organization puts out don't you? Par for the course for Rick Dudley. Coming in every player is Wayne Gretzky or Patrick Roy reincarnate. Going out: demonize them as the worst thing since venereal diseases and child molestors. That also contributes to the neverending downward spiral of a Rick Dudley GMed team. He shows zero respect to his players as people.


Um no I actually keep track during pre-season Lightning fan and Hurme wasn't good at all, and in case you didn't know Dudley was allowed to keep Hurme since Mason was already taken but didn't cause he sucked.


He shows zero respect to his players as people.


Zero respect to his players?? Now thats where you are completely wrong, last year he did Wade Flaherty a favor and traded him to the Preds for a chance to play in the NHL again when he was playing good for us in the AHL. Hurme believes he could be a #1 goaltender in this league and playing behind Luongo he wasn't going to get that chance so he let a division rival Atlanta Thrashers pick him up to give him a chance because Atlanta's goaltending wasn't secure with Dafoe and Nurminen during preseason but obviously Nurminen has been playing great and so far reports say no one wants to pickup Dafoe or Hurme.


And, oh wow Shields had ONE good game!?!?!?! Should we award the Vezina to him now or go through the formality of this whole 82 game season and playoffs thing? ::sarcasm dripping::


Yeah maybe they should give the Vezina to the Dudley acquisition Khabibulin instead Lightning fan? :D


Steve Shields is still the goaltender who had a losing record and a sub-.900 sv% on a playoff caliber Boston team last year


Yeah right playoff caliber my ass they barely made it INTO the playoffs with that terrible defense, but just for the record his season was [12-13-9] so 1 loss extra isn't that bad.


Considering the first thing he did was demote the guy to Hershey, I'd say you're the one who is wrong. But its ok, I understand its hard to get current info like that when your tongue is fused to the inside lining of Rick Dudley's colon.

He had a chance to rid himself of Sheldon Keefe FOREVER and didn't so stop crying that you were wrong Lightning fan, Feaster loves Dudley players so get over it.

Seems a few too many slappers have clanged off of crossbar from close range.

Hurme: 28gms [4-11-6] GA=2.87 SV%=.907
Shields: 36gms [12-13-9] GA=2.75 SV%=.896

Sorry I'll take Shields over Hurme especially since Boston is paying half price.

Quit putting words in my mouth, I did not call St. Louis a superstar.

The whole comparison to Jagr was that St. Louis could take over a game, and so could Jagr; which you admitted yourself. Vinny and Richards can't take over a game like that. The whole tangent we went off on about Kovalchuck, your the one who said he was a super star. Wait till he has atleast tallied his 200th point before tagging him anything like that.

Wait till he has atleast tallied his 200th point before tagging him anything like that.


Though the potential is there, thats almost as premature as saying since the Bolts are 6-0 they will go undefeated :dunno:

Sorry I'll take Shields over Hurme especially since Boston is paying half price.

::chuckle::

I'd be willing to bet 30 NHL general managers (well, maybe 29, excluding a certain "genius" down south) would take Hurme.

Have you seen these two guys play? They're both reliable backups, but in terms of potential it's no contest. Hurme's the superior (and younger) netminder.

Statistics don't tell the whole story.

Quit putting words in my mouth, I did not call St. Louis a superstar.

The whole comparison to Jagr was that St. Louis could take over a game, and so could Jagr; which you admitted yourself. Vinny and Richards can't take over a game like that. The whole tangent we went off on about Kovalchuck, your the one who said he was a super star. Wait till he has atleast tallied his 200th point before tagging him anything like that.

Did you not switch from offensive ability to then scoffing at Bure because all he did was net points? I'm having trouble keeping up with you, not putting words in your mouth. You keep changing your word/focus.

In regard to Kovalchuk...

I mean this in all seriousness.... have you never seen him play before?

And what Lightning team are you watching?

Richards and Lecavalier can take over A (I take it you mean singular, which then would mean 50% of the league is now a gamebreaker) game as much as St. Louis can. I've seen Richards do it multiple times. Lecavalier more. Boyle a few times. Andreychuk one here or there. STL a bunch of times. Jagr more than them all combined. Kovalchuk pretty much every game this year, and many, many last year.

I know you live in a Lightning world and I can appreciate that, which means you probably hate the Thrashers, but be objective enough to realize the kid with 2 less goals this year than the entire New York Rangers team (including two hattricks) is a superstar.

Jassen Cullimore compared Kovalchuk to Mario Lemieux tonight, mentioning you have to keep your eye on him every second. Sound familiar?

Edit: Joe beat me to the Cullimore point. Consider it a repeat for emphasis.

TB_FAN... I'm sorry to nit-pick, but I just like to see a little objectivity from the Bolt fans on this board. There's so many other boards on HF that you go to and they will all tell you Lecavalier is overrated and Modano is better than Gretzky was, etc, etc, etc... the TB site is usually pretty good about homerism.

Denis Potvin said that Shields takes his underwear off between periods.

That should count for something.

I'll bet Hurme doesn't do that. Pfft. What a loser.

Denis Potvin said that Shields takes his underwear off between periods.

That should count for something.

I'll bet Hurme doesn't do that. Pfft. What a loser.

Thanks Chad, I needed that laugh-so-hard-you-cry thing!*!*!*! :handclap:

If it was a race to see who could get out of full goaltender regalia and remove their underpants the fastest, I'd venture to say 29 of 30 NHL general managers would take Steve Shields. Rick Dudley would add red to the underpants and then trade them for an 8th round pick and a pouch full of magic beans.

After the shelling Shields took tonight, can we postpone his Vezina Trophy parade now?

-Pete Choquette

Did you not switch from offensive ability to then scoffing at Bure because all he did was net points? I'm having trouble keeping up with you, not putting words in your mouth. You keep changing your word/focus.

In regard to Kovalchuk...

I mean this in all seriousness.... have you never seen him play before?

And what Lightning team are you watching?

Richards and Lecavalier can take over A (I take it you mean singular, which then would mean 50% of the league is now a gamebreaker) game as much as St. Louis can. I've seen Richards do it multiple times. Lecavalier more. Boyle a few times. Andreychuk one here or there. STL a bunch of times. Jagr more than them all combined. Kovalchuk pretty much every game this year, and many, many last year.

I know you live in a Lightning world and I can appreciate that, which means you probably hate the Thrashers, but be objective enough to realize the kid with 2 less goals this year than the entire New York Rangers team (including two hattricks) is a superstar.

Jassen Cullimore compared Kovalchuk to Mario Lemieux tonight, mentioning you have to keep your eye on him every second. Sound familiar?

Edit: Joe beat me to the Cullimore point. Consider it a repeat for emphasis.

TB_FAN... I'm sorry to nit-pick, but I just like to see a little objectivity from the Bolt fans on this board. There's so many other boards on HF that you go to and they will all tell you Lecavalier is overrated and Modano is better than Gretzky was, etc, etc, etc... the TB site is usually pretty good about homerism.


k, im not even going to try and explain why I compared and such but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt about all the above since my perception is skewed. A little optimisim in Boltville; I hope to God I will never be as non chalant in my opinions as you. I have the advantage of seeing things and making them out to be more than what they will. I'll leave it to you and some of the other, more knowledgeable guys who travel outside the friendly confines to be honest and forth right, but thats not me :)

I think you're being kind of hard on the guy Chad. I think the reason TBL_FANATIC made his statement was based on the way St. Louis essentially took over the Capitals series last year.

Is he a Mario Lemieux type player? Of course not. But he is a guy who can break open a game at any time especially with his speed, and I do believe in the current defense-first NHL climate, if Marty proves he can put up a point a game, that DOES make him a superstar.

I think the marketing potential for a lovable 5'6" scamp (no, not you Hawkeye) with blazing speed and a great life story of never being drafted is through the roof if the Lightning can elevate their play to the level of an elite team and increase his exposure nationally. This guy could be one of the most popular players in the league very soon if the Lightning continue to play well. I wish to God I was his agent, that's for sure.

-Pete Choquette

Yeah well say what you want thank god you got an idiot of a GM that passed up on drafting Joni Pitkanen. :lol:

Yeah well say what you want thank god you got an idiot of a GM that passed up on drafting Joni Pitkanen. :lol:

Anyone here say Feaster hasn't made some bad moves? He most certainly has. Many of us have little to no faith in his ability to improve this team, but, unlike Dudley, the jury is out. We KNOW Dudley is an idiot of the greatest magnitude.

Yeah well say what you want thank god you got an idiot of a GM that passed up on drafting Joni Pitkanen. :lol:

Sad thing is Dudley probably would have traded the pick too like he does with practically all his 1st round draft picks....

Sad thing is Dudley probably would have traded the pick too like he does with practically all his 1st round draft picks....

Indeed. And he would've traded it for non-proven NHL talent to boot. Just remember what the Lightning got last year in production from Dudley's move of the '99 #1 pick and the '00 #5 pick: 9 points combined.

If people want to say Feaster got less than market value? Fine. Fair enough. But anyone who wants to use the Fedotenko trade to try and pump up Rick Dudley needs to understand that Dudley has made TWO FAR WORSE trades of top-5 picks.

Once more Panther fan, 2002-2003 scoring on the descendants of trades of top-5 Lightning picks:

Rick Dudley
'99 #1 Pick= 6 points (Alexeev)
'00 #5 Pick= 3 points (Dingman)
TOTAL= 9 points

Jay Feaster
'02 #4 Pick= 47 points (Fedotenko, Lukowich)
TOTAL= 47 points

Hmmmm, do I want the GM who traded TWO top 5 picks for 9 points, or the one who traded ONE top 5 pick for 47 points?

Tough call.
:lol:

-Pete Choquette

Indeed. And he would've traded it for non-proven NHL talent to boot. Just remember what the Lightning got last year in production from Dudley's move of the '99 #1 pick and the '00 #5 pick: 9 points combined.

If people want to say Feaster got less than market value? Fine. Fair enough. But anyone who wants to use the Fedotenko trade to try and pump up Rick Dudley needs to understand that Dudley has made TWO FAR WORSE trades of top-5 picks.

Once more Panther fan, 2002-2003 scoring on the descendants of trades of top-5 Lightning picks:

Rick Dudley
'99 #1 Pick= 6 points (Alexeev)
'00 #5 Pick= 3 points (Dingman)
TOTAL= 9 points

Jay Feaster
'02 #4 Pick= 47 points (Fedotenko, Lukowich)
TOTAL= 47 points

Hmmmm, do I want the GM who traded TWO top 5 picks for 9 points, or the one who traded ONE top 5 pick for 47 points?

Tough call.
:lol:

-Pete Choquette

Svitov was 19 and Alexeev was 20 last year while Fedotenko was 23 and Lukowich was 27 I'd say your comparing apples to oranges there bud when I can easily just say:

St.Louis = 70pts and Ölvestad = 3pts TOTAL = 73pts to make it look amazing so stop twisting things...again ;)

You guys have a lot of depth thanks to Espo/Demers/Dudley and like the Avs with their overabundance of prospects some of your players (like Keefe) are rotting in the minors thanks to the depth that was collected slowly and carefully cultivated by Dudley. You don't get to be long-term winners like NJ, Col, Ott, ect. without first experiencing the hardships and thats what happened during the Espo/Demers/Dudley era and now that you guys are winning Feaster is reaping all the undeserved praises by some of the blind TB fans.

BTW I saw the TB game last night save that Vezina for the Dudley acquisition Nikolai Khabibulin LOL!

P.S. Steve Shields = 2 starts = 2 wins vs Hot Thrashers and Hot Senators = great pickup over Hurme by your favorite GM Rick Dudley.

BTW I saw the TB game last night save that Vezina for the Dudley acquisition Nikolai Khabibulin LOL!

P.S. Steve Shields = 2 starts = 2 wins vs Hot Thrashers and Hot Senators = great pickup over Hurme by your favorite GM Rick Dudley.

What does Alex Svitov have to do with '99 #1 pick and the '00 #5 pick? NOTHING.

Look, you can accuse this of being a twisted set of facts... but simply put: don't you think that 2-3 years after Dudley trading two top-5 picks, that the Lightning should have gotten SOMETHING more than 9 points of production out of the trade? Doesn't that sound REASONABLE?

You constantly rail on Feaster trading the #4 pick in '02 away as proof of the superiority of Dudley, and yet Feaster's trade got a lot more than the paltry 9 points Dudley's did.

If you want to sit here and point out that we also have some young prospects coming down the pipeline like Polushin, Holmqvist, and But from those two picks, and that Alexeev is still young, fine. But do those players justify trading two TOP FIVE first round picks? Given the rate of attrition we've already seen on Rick Dudley's "can't miss" prospects in Tampa? I don't think they do. NO Lightning fan thinks they do. So as far as anyone on this board is concerned, I think your constant pathetic little gambit of pumping up Dudley by railing on Feaster's Fedotenko deal (which shows a high level of hypocrisy because you always fail to acknowledge Feaster also got two pretty damned good prospects in Henrich and Dicaire in the fallout deals) is off the table. Bottom line: DUDLEY'S RECORD ON TRADING TOP FIVE PICKS IS WORSE.

You can try to confuse that by bringing up the names of unrelated players like St. Louis, Olvestad, or Svitov, but those are the cold hard facts.

Steve Shields = 2 starts = 2 wins

And a merciless shelling at the hands of the Flyers in between. Ahhh consistency. :shakehead

-Pete Choquette

No because Espo/Demers/Dudley era got you guys so much depth that Svitov/Alexeev were playing on the checking lines so 6pts for a 20yr old Alexeev and 8pts for a 19yr old Svitov is actually pretty good for a couple of young players and now that they are back in the minors their growth process will continue to excel. Obviously Torts wanted Svitov and Alexeev to learn the fundamentals of the defensive side of the game at the NHL level last season.

No because Espo/Demers/Dudley era got you guys so much depth that Svitov/Alexeev were playing on the checking lines so 6pts for a 20yr old Alexeev and 8pts for a 19yr old Svitov is actually pretty good for a couple of young players and now that they are back in the minors their growth process will continue to excel. Obviously Torts wanted Svitov and Alexeev to learn the fundamentals of the defensive side of the game at the NHL level last season.


For the record the Philly game was already over when Luongo let in the first 2 goals and deflated the team, the team just gave up on Shields who actually played well.

For the record the Philly game was already over when Luongo let in the first 2 goals and deflated the team, the team just gave up on Shields who actually played well.
Excuses excuses! After seeing Hurme go from being "part of the best tandem in the league" (Pantherfan words before he got traded) to being a bum, I have no doubt the shine will come off Shields soon too.

It is very obvious that you have no clue about the Tampa Bay Lightning, it's present, past or future. You really should give it up. Svitov and Alexeev were up here last year because there were problems in the minors, not because we want them on checking lines! Half the rookies in the league this year blow away Alexeev's numbers already.

Please stop with the double posts to boost your post count, that's what the edit button is for.

Excuses excuses! After seeing Hurme go from being "part of the best tandem in the league" (Pantherfan words before he got traded) to being a bum, I have no doubt the shine will come off Shields soon too.

It is very obvious that you have no clue about the Tampa Bay Lightning, it's present, past or future. You really should give it up. Svitov and Alexeev were up here last year because there were problems in the minors, not because we want them on checking lines! Half the rookies in the league this year blow away Alexeev's numbers already.

Please stop with the double posts to boost your post count, that's what the edit button is for.

Well not from this Panther fan (you obviously didn't see that 12-2 pounding by the Caps last year not bad for the best goaltending tandem in hockey right? Yeah there were some other bad ones too don't worry) and if Hurme is that good why has Atlanta been only using Nurminen and Dafoe??

Some of you TB fans are obviously too proud/stubborn and won't admit Dudley helped build your organization, yeah like a GM (Feaster) who completes only 3 *significant* moves is now getting all the credit in the world for bringing the Bolts to where they are now just because your winning while Espo/Demers/Dudley BUILT your team out of *NOTHING* don't get any credit because the losing records during their tenures give me a freaking break what a joke and if you say Dudley shouldn't get as much credit as Espo/Demers then again you are in D-E-N-I-A-L.

BTW sorry for the double posts I was in a rush to post both times because it was closing time here.

No because Espo/Demers/Dudley era got you guys so much depth that Svitov/Alexeev were playing on the checking lines

Orrrr it was because Coach McSorely in Springfield hated the Russians the Lightning sent him and the Lightning wanted to keep their two first rounders away from him. You remember who made that dysfunctional agreement with Springfield in the first place right? Don't you crossbar? That's right, Rick Dudley.

-Pete Choquette

You constantly rail on Feaster trading the #4 pick in '02 away as proof of the superiority of Dudley, and yet Feaster's trade got a lot more than the paltry 9 points Dudley's did.

sry to do this Pete, counter argument...Main pieces in Dudley trades were goaltenders.

yeah like a GM (Feaster) who completes only 3 *significant* moves


Its been said once, i'll say it again. Some moves are the ones you don't make. Some other examples..World Champion Buccanners not shuffeling lineup with new coach; Marlins not auctioning farm and only filling need holes when Lowell went down and Looper struggled.

Feaster has also made a point of getting players signed before season and camp.

Main pieces in Dudley trades were goaltenders.

Goaltenders who did not pan out for the Lightning, thus necessitating a third trade for Khabibulin.

There's no defending Dudley's record on trades involving top-5 picks for us.

-Pete Choquette

No because Espo/Demers/Dudley era got you guys so much depth that Svitov/Alexeev were playing on the checking lines so 6pts for a 20yr old Alexeev and 8pts for a 19yr old Svitov is actually pretty good for a couple of young players and now that they are back in the minors their growth process will continue to excel. Obviously Torts wanted Svitov and Alexeev to learn the fundamentals of the defensive side of the game at the NHL level last season.


For the record the Philly game was already over when Luongo let in the first 2 goals and deflated the team, the team just gave up on Shields who actually played well.

Svitov was 20 last year, but who cares? Perhaps you missed the question the first time: What the hell does Alex Svitov have to do with the first-round picks Rick Dudley traded while he was in Tampa? Perhaps you also missed the answer. Allow me to repeat it for you here: NOTHING.

When you can't stick to facts relevant to the argument at hand, you've clearly lost the argument.

BTW, Shields looked great last night against San Jose. :joker:

Svitov was 20 last year, but who cares? Perhaps you missed the question the first time: What the hell does Alex Svitov have to do with the first-round picks Rick Dudley traded while he was in Tampa? Perhaps you also missed the answer. Allow me to repeat it for you here: NOTHING.

When you can't stick to facts relevant to the argument at hand, you've clearly lost the argument.

BTW, Shields looked great last night against San Jose. :joker:

OMG you know what you might be right Dudley was pretty freaking stupid for not drafting Patrik Stefan, the Sedin twins, and Pavel "the bust" Brendal, yeah geez what an idiot he is! :shakehead ::sarcasm drowning the entire state of Florida::

How about we just package all our left over Bryan Murray players for all of your left over Dudley players since you don't appreciate the work Dudley did for you?? Yeah I didn't think so, Dudley owns you.

Dudley owns you.

Now THAT'S funny! :joker:

OMG you know what you might be right Dudley was pretty freaking stupid for not drafting Patrik Stefan

Had more than SIX points last year, didn't he? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up: Stefan had 34 points. That's a little less than four times we got from the descendants of Rick Dudley's trades of the '99 #1 and '00 #5 picks COMBINED.

Tell me something Lightning fans... would you have rather had Patrik Stefan and his 34 points in our lineup last year or Nikita Alexeev and his 6? Exactly.

Dudley owns you.

Scoreboard biotch. You were 23 points behind us last season and you'll be 23 points behind us by the end of this season.

And yes, Steve "Vezina" Shields was a world beater against the Sharkies last night.

Crossbar
:lol:

-Pete Choquette

Well not from this Panther fan (you obviously didn't see that 12-2 pounding by the Caps last year not bad for the best goaltending tandem in hockey right? Yeah there were some other bad ones too don't worry) and if Hurme is that good why has Atlanta been only using Nurminen and Dafoe??
Nah, not sure who it was, but someone did call them "the best tandem in the league".

Hurme is injured, he hasn't even been practicing from the sound of it. Nurminen is getting the job done, I don't think even Dafoe has gotten a start yet (could be wrong though).

Some of you TB fans are obviously too proud/stubborn and won't admit Dudley helped build your organization, yeah like a GM (Feaster) who completes only 3 *significant* moves is now getting all the credit in the world for bringing the Bolts to where they are now just because your winning while Espo/Demers/Dudley BUILT your team out of *NOTHING* don't get any credit because the losing records during their tenures give me a freaking break what a joke and if you say Dudley shouldn't get as much credit as Espo/Demers then again you are in D-E-N-I-A-L.
We think Feaster "built" this team singlehandedly???!!! Who said that? NO ONE. Either O39 or Pete has already given the scorecard of who brought in who, no one denies the impact that any of our GMs may have had. Gotta say, this is the first time I've noticed you mention Espo and Demers, I thought it was all Duds to you south-Florida people. :p

The problem here is that Pantherfans, to soothe their anguish over the disaster they currently are putting out on the ice, like to tell themselves "It'll be OK, Duds BUILT Tampa from absolutely nothing by making a gazillion moves, that's what he'll do here! He is a genious". (Typo intended, some Pantherfan typed it like that on the Trade board and that's too precious to not use again and again) The problem isn't that we deny Duds part in building our team, the problem is that Pantherfans know nothing about Tampa's team history and deny that ANY GM besides Dudley had any part in the current sucessful makeup of this team.

This really is a pointless argument, but you guys are being very civil, so knock yourselves out :)

Nah, not sure who it was, but someone did call them "the best tandem in the league".

Hurme is injured, he hasn't even been practicing from the sound of it. Nurminen is getting the job done, I don't think even Dafoe has gotten a start yet (could be wrong though).


We think Feaster "built" this team singlehandedly???!!! Who said that? NO ONE. Either O39 or Pete has already given the scorecard of who brought in who, no one denies the impact that any of our GMs may have had. Gotta say, this is the first time I've noticed you mention Espo and Demers, I thought it was all Duds to you south-Florida people. :p

The problem here is that Pantherfans, to soothe their anguish over the disaster they currently are putting out on the ice, like to tell themselves "It'll be OK, Duds BUILT Tampa from absolutely nothing by making a gazillion moves, that's what he'll do here! He is a genious". (Typo intended, some Pantherfan typed it like that on the Trade board and that's too precious to not use again and again) The problem isn't that we deny Duds part in building our team, the problem is that Pantherfans know nothing about Tampa's team history and deny that ANY GM besides Dudley had any part in the current sucessful makeup of this team.

This really is a pointless argument, but you guys are being very civil, so knock yourselves out :)


Actually we are very happy with the players in this organization all we need is time I mean who wouldn't want Luongo, Bouwmeester, Weiss, Horton, Huselius, Stewart, ect... in their organization??? They are all below 25 years of age. For the record I did mention Espo/Demers a lot more than once (read all the posts I wrote in the TB forum for proof) it was your TB fans that came over to our board to start this sh*t and then coming back here all proud and thinking "yeah I sure showed them" but now you can thank the same TB fan who started this for bringing us over here cause we aren't going to crack until every Dudley player in your organization that makes an impact is gone.

http://www.nhl.com/columns/libero/southeast102203.html <---HAHA gotta love it.

Had more than SIX points last year, didn't he? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up: Stefan had 34 points. That's a little less than four times we got from the descendants of Rick Dudley's trades of the '99 #1 and '00 #5 picks COMBINED.

Tell me something Lightning fans... would you have rather had Patrik Stefan and his 34 points in our lineup last year or Nikita Alexeev and his 6? Exactly.



Scoreboard biotch. You were 23 points behind us last season and you'll be 23 points behind us by the end of this season.

And yes, Steve "Vezina" Shields was a world beater against the Sharkies last night.

Crossbar
:lol:

-Pete Choquette


Yeah so no answer to trading the Dudley players huh? I mean come on he didn't do jack for you guys right?? Who needs miserable players like St.Louis and Khabibulin??? :shakehead Exactly. :bow:

Dan Cloutier has played a hell of a lot better than Pavel Brendl wouldn't you say?? I'd say Dudley was right on the money when he passed on drafting those players and again how exactly are 2 young players supposed to be racking up pts when they are playing on the *CHECKING* lines?? I mean come on Stefan would have probably got you a total of zero pts on the 4th line.

This really is a pointless argument ...

This isn't even an argument. Crossbar can't even stick to the issue at hand without bringing up entirely unrelated facts and presenting them as if they're proof he's right. Right about what? Who knows? He's trying to turn this into yet another "Rick Dudley is God" thread, which we don't need because we've had countless similar threads in which TBL fans have debunked all the popular Dudley myths only to see Crossbar and his ilk cover their eyes and keep the faith.

That's fine. Panther fans are more than welcome to think they've got a great GM in Dudley. I'm absolutely THRILLED Dudley's in Florida, and I don't think it'll be long before Panther fans come around to seeing things our way. In the meantime, happy is a fan who lives in darkness and seeks no light.

Enjoy another season of looking forward to the bountiful future, Crossbar. It's just on the horizon. And with Dudley in charge, that's exactly where it will stay.

I've noticed you have 2 joint affiliates in the Hersey Bears and the Hamilton Bulldogs and was just wondering why your organization doesn't have their own private affiliate in the AHL after all these years?? Is this an owner ($$$) issue??? Even when Dudley was there you guys had a joint affiliation with Springfield, IMO having your prospects scattered in different places is the worst thing to do because you guys have no say in how your own prospects are being developed or what position, ice time, system, ect is being given to them not to mention its pretty bad that your own prospects don't play with one another to get used to each other and maybe create chemistry with one another. I'm just wondering if this is an owner issue because like I mentioned when Dudley was there he only got a joint affiliation with Springfield yet as soon as he arrived here with the Panthers (we had the same problem when Murray was GM here) he right away got us our own affiliate in the AHL (San Antonio Rampage) so I'm guessing its got to be a money issue with the owner???

This isn't even an argument. Crossbar can't even stick to the issue at hand without bringing up entirely unrelated facts and presenting them as if they're proof he's right. Right about what? Who knows? He's trying to turn this into yet another "Rick Dudley is God" thread, which we don't need because we've had countless similar threads in which TBL fans have debunked all the popular Dudley myths only to see Crossbar and his ilk cover their eyes and keep the faith.

That's fine. Panther fans are more than welcome to think they've got a great GM in Dudley. I'm absolutely THRILLED Dudley's in Florida, and I don't think it'll be long before Panther fans come around to seeing things our way. In the meantime, happy is a fan who lives in darkness and seeks no light.

Enjoy another season of looking forward to the bountiful future, Crossbar. It's just on the horizon. And with Dudley in charge, that's exactly where it will stay.

You guys came over to *OUR* board to talk smack at Dudley, I've never even been on this board until you guys came over to our board *FIRST* so you created this whole ordeal not Panther fans just remember that.

You guys came over to *OUR* board to talk smack at Dudley, I've never even been on this board until you guys came over to our board *FIRST* so you created this whole ordeal not Panther fans just remember that.

Perhaps you didn't notice that this is an entirely separate argument. The one on the Panthers board started as an argument about Dudley losing Hurme at the waiver draft and his subsequent attempt to bail himself out by acquiring Shields. When some of us (who just happened to be TB fans) pointed out that we thought Dudley really screwed the pooch (an argument with which even your moderator completely agreed), it turned into a misguided effort by Panthers fans to assert that Dudley had "acquired everything of value in TB" (not true) even though he "started with nothing" (also not true).

The argument on this thread also happens to involve Rick Dudley, but it's about his track record where it comes to trading lottery picks and how that track record compares to Jay Feaster's. It's a worthy debate, but it's one that you've completely and repeatedly failed to understand the crux of -- and therefore your posts have come off as petty, unfocused mudslinging. If you have a relevant point to make, be our guest. If you just want to kick up some dirt and throw a tantrum and generally make a nuisance of yourself, do it on your own board. See, we do things differently here on the TBL board: We use logic. You should try it sometime.

And how exactly have you proven your point with Feaster's track record?? You haven't you just keep using the winning record in comparison to Dudley's record during his tenure as a way to make your point sound logical. He gives up on TB's leader in pts from last year (Prospal) and takes a gamble on Stillman that worked out (when you could have had BOTH Prospal AND Stillman), throws away a chance to draft a gem of a defenseman in Pitkanen, and adds a decent backup after already trading away a starter in Weekes and all of a sudden Feaster's a genius?? Even from an economical standpoint (see Brad Richards contract) Feaster is waaaaay overrated by you Lightning fans.

See, once again you've missed the point entirely and instead you've spewed a litany of loosely related facts to support an argument that bears only a tenuous connection to the original debate.

Nobody here EVER said that Jay Feaster is "a genius." Now you're just making stuff up. Either that or you're operating at a 4th grade reading level.

Yep Joe. He can't stay on subject to save his life. Probably because he's tired of getting beaten with the same shovel (9pts v. 42pts).

Because I feel generous Crossbar, and because you are truly to be pitied, the Lightning called up Svitov today so that's 1 Dudley pick on the team compared to 5 Espo/Demers/Murdoch picks. Feel free to beat your chest.

Is this an owner ($$$) issue???

Our payroll is $35M. Yours is $26.4M. Care to rethink that? As cheap as our owner is... YOURS IS ACTUALLY CHEAPER :joker:

-Pete Choquette

This isn't even an argument.
Very true, and yet it continues...

Ignoring this person seems to be the only thing that's going to end this thread, although it has been highly entertaining. :)

Actually I'm only here to make sure Dudley gets credit where credit is due, it was your TB posters that came on to the Panthers board, used the Hurme trade as a way to mock Dudley's abilities to serve as GM, and then stirred up the whole debate about how Dudley *HELPED* build your TB team. *NO ONE* claimed Dudley to be the *SOLE* builder of your TB Lightning team, *NO ONE* claimed Dudley to be a "savior" of any sort, your posters are the ones who won't admit Dudley helped build your team *AT ALL* and gave most/all the credit to Feaster for the success your team had last year and even this year but no praises to Dudley so stop pretending and again, *I GAVE PRAISE TO THE PAST TB MANAGEMENT*.

... your posters are the ones who won't admit Dudley helped build your team *AT ALL* and gave most/all the credit to Feaster for the success your team had last year and even this year ...

That's simply untrue. Now please go away.

That's simply untrue. Now please go away.
Well, and that's the thing. This guy is so obviously not even reading one thing we're posting, it's like talking to a wall. :rolly:

go away


Now please go away.

:teach:

BTW nice victory last night maybe you should borrow Shields from us? :moon:

Troll put a link to the Panthers board to try and get Panther fan reinforcements. Seems like none are forthcoming. Sad. You've been foresaken Crossbar.

I can't believe Troll reposted a link to that hideous Libero article again. We've already blown two gigantic shotgun style holes in the article with regards to its factual inaccuracy. A shame he wasn't smart enough to grasp that the first time through.

Way for Dudley to rush Horton to the NHL btw. Every person of any clout I've seen comment on his play has said he simply isn't ready. Going to rush Petr "12 goals in the OHL" Taticek up to ruin next, Troll?

You've gotta love Yoda, Master of Drafting in the Front Row.

-Pete Choquette

Troll put a link to the Panthers board to try and get Panther fan reinforcements. Seems like none are forthcoming. Sad. You've been foresaken Crossbar.

First off your the TROLL who wandered over to our board FIRST and got your little posse to help you out remember??? Exactly, and it looks like your still wandering around there huh Dolt fan. :lol: I don't need any reinforcements to make you look stupid but I do want to make sure my fellow Panther fans know what BS opinions you spread around about our GM and notice I *DIDN'T* ask anyone or start a new thread for help so sorry to break your heart. :rolly:

I can't believe Troll reposted a link to that hideous Libero article again. We've already blown two gigantic shotgun style holes in the article with regards to its factual inaccuracy. A shame he wasn't smart enough to grasp that the first time through.

Shame your the one whos inaccurate and can't accept the facts, sorry to hear your still in D-E-N-I-A-L.

Way for Dudley to rush Horton to the NHL btw. Every person of any clout I've seen comment on his play has said he simply isn't ready.

Horton has been contributing defensively (hes a +1) especially on the PK and is now starting to light up the lamp (he scored back to back goals now and has been creating his own chances through out all his games despite being held to only 3 pts. He also scored 4 goals during preseason) I'd say he is handling the NHL quite well for an 18 yr old but of course an impatient person like you has no appreciation for the little things players do for a team and just look at the stats, typical hockey fan. I'd rather have Horton here to learn and get accustomed to the NHL pace than for him to rot in juniors unchallenged like Anthony Stewart is going through right now and yes I still wanted Stephen Weiss in the NHL last season for the same reason (for him to get accustomed to the NHL level). I'd rather have Horton playing in the AHL but since thats not allowed the NHL is just fine until he is eligible for the AHL next year then he can develope his offensive talents like Weiss is doing now, but for now learning how to play D in the NHL and distributing a good amount of ice time is doing him good...not bad. Joe Thornton only got 3 goals and 4 assists in the NHL when he first started and now hes one of the elite powercenters in the NHL, Horton is going through the same growing pains.

Going to rush Petr "12 goals in the OHL" Taticek up to ruin next, Troll?.

I guess you haven't noticed the San Antonio Rampage's success last year and this year huh Dolt fan? Just remember it was Dudley who got San Antonio (the youngest team in the AHL) to where they are now and are giving him tons of praises from everyone there :moon:

5-1 loss vs the Caps sure you don't want to borrow Steve Sheilds from us? :joker:

That's about enough I think.