Do you think Gretzky was right about Lemiuex/Yzerman

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

I think missing Chopper hurt too. I don't know why people over look his absense this time around.

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

Wayne is confused and babbling at straws.

Well, obviously Lemieux was missed b/c of his talent plus leadership abilities. He stunts on the ice could really help out the Canadians and motivate them to play better.

Same thing with yzerman. Good player and blah blah.


The thing is in the end the Canadians lost and the buts and ifs wont change it.

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.Ya. I posted this in another thread:

And what would Mario do? High five them all when they come into the dressing room? Leadership comes from on the ice, not in the dressign room. With no Mario and no Stevie Y, the leadership was lacking. But its pretty obvious that theres a big gap in leadership after Gretzky, Yzerman and Lemiuex. Besides Sakic, who can be relied on?

Canada is lacking in elite high-end talent, coupled with leadership. Messier is gone, Wayne and Mario are gone, Stevie Y is gone. Now we have Sakic and... who? Heatley? Thornton? Iginla? None of these guys belong in the same category as the aforementioned. Maybe Heatley eventually, or maybe we just have to wait for Crosby.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

maybe. maybe not. he was wrong about picking some players on this team though.

maybe. maybe not. he was wrong about picking some players on this team though.It can be argued that effective leadership might have overcome this...remember there was still a lot of talent on this roster...

But who knows....

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....it's over now, let's enjoy the rest of the tournament.

I completely disagree. The Canadian team should have been full of hungry young players. We needed less old vets and more young players.

maybe. maybe not. he was wrong about picking some players on this team though.
I don't see the players that were picked as the problem, there was enough talent and proven scoring there to have a chance to win. If guys like Staal, Spezza, Crosy, Phaneuf, etc, didn't even exist this team would have been considered one of the favourites going itno the Games.

The problem is that the team didn't come together and almost everyone underachieved. That is a combination of coaching, systems put in place, line combos, and player motivation (both from within the players themselves and from coaches). This comes down to management and coaching yes. But not player selection.

It can be argued that effective leadership might have overcome this...remember there was still a lot of talent on this roster...

But who knows....

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....it's over now, let's enjoy the rest of the tournament.

I just have a hard time believing that this team lacked leadership. I mean how many of Canada's players are captains,former captains or alternate captains on their NHL teams?

Blake
Foote
McCabe
Pronger
Redden
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Richards
Doan
Lecavalier
Nash
Smyth

how much more leadership do you need?!

Canada-Russia was a game between 2 very strong teams and somebody had to lose, it's all it is. what happened in the preliminary games is irrelevant because when Lemieux and Yzerman were there in 2002, they lost to Sweden 5:2 and beat Germany 3:2 in a similar fashion as they beat the Czechs this year.

Ya. I posted this in another thread:

And what would Mario do? High five them all when they come into the dressing room? Leadership comes from on the ice, not in the dressign room. With no Mario and no Stevie Y, the leadership was lacking. But its pretty obvious that theres a big gap in leadership after Gretzky, Yzerman and Lemiuex. Besides Sakic, who can be relied on?

Canada is lacking in elite high-end talent, coupled with leadership. Messier is gone, Wayne and Mario are gone, Stevie Y is gone. Now we have Sakic and... who? Heatley? Thornton? Iginla? None of these guys belong in the same category as the aforementioned. Maybe Heatley eventually, or maybe we just have to wait for Crosby.
Well it can't be easy playing for Canada AFTER winning a gold medal the previous Olympics and basically having a whole country scrutinizing every single move. The first timers probably felt alot of pressure. Could this team have used a Staal or Crosby? Probably, but maybe Wayne is right. He knows all about the pressure of everyone watching your every move.

I completely disagree. The Canadian team should have been full of hungry young players. We needed less old vets and more young players.
Canada won going away in 2002 with every bit as much of a mix of veterans and young players. Why would anyone have expected that this year should be any different?

Actually, I'd like to see the average age of the team in '02 compared to this year.

The problem is that the team didn't come together and almost everyone underachieved. That is a combination of coaching, systems put in place, line combos, and player motivation (both from within the players themselves and from coaches). This comes down to management and coaching yes. But not player selection.

Fair enough. I just thought that taking Draper and Doan over Staal and Spezza was rather dumb, but I agree, as a whole this team was stacked even without those 2 guys and should've scored more.

All the things you mentioned though, line combos, systems and motivation can all be attributed to your first point which is coaching. And I know a lot of people hate on Quinn most of all, but this exact same coaching staff won the '02 Olympics and '04 World Cup, so what changed this time??

Fair enough. I just thought that taking Draper and Doan over Staal and Spezza was rather dumb, but I agree, as a whole this team was stacked even without those 2 guys and should've scored more.

All the things you mentioned though, line combos, systems and motivation can all be attributed to your first point which is coaching. And I know a lot of people hate on Quinn most of all, but this exact same coaching staff won the '02 Olympics and '04 World Cup, so what changed this time??
Not sure, maybe preparation or reaction to on-ice situations? We'll never know for sure. Quinn's record in the NHL seems to be on the decline as well.

And I know a lot of people hate on Quinn most of all, but this exact same coaching staff won the '02 Olympics and '04 World Cup, so what changed this time??

Maybe there were other teams out there better and more hungrier?

Wayne has to blame someone for his losses. He's perfect, after all. :madfire:

Not sure, maybe preparation or reaction to on-ice situations? We'll never know for sure. Quinn's record in the NHL seems to be on the decline as well.

When Canada won in '02, people said that the team was so good that anybody could've coached it to a win or that it was all Martin and Hitchcock.

Now Quinn is taking a lot of flak for this loss. It's not fair to the old man..

Uh...say Gretz, if Sakic was under too much pressure why didn't you have Shanahan and Kariya on the team instead of Bertuzzi, Draper or St. Louis? Gretzky is basically admitting he screwed up and didn't do enough to offset the loss of leadership that occured when Yzerman and Lemieux bowed out.

Isn't it interesting that Mario wanted Crosby to play in the Games but Gretz prefered Goontuzzi? Right from the summer camp Gretz said "Todd is going to be a huge part of this team". Well, he was right, he had an impact allright.

Wayne has to blame someone for his losses. He's perfect, after all. :madfire:
Gretzky is not perfect, I think that much has become obvious lately. But he has come out, both before and since yesterday's game, and completely taken responsibility for the team's failures. Watch the interviews.

There is enough leadership on this team.

I think we really missed Neidermayer though.

When Canada won in '02, people said that the team was so good that anybody could've coached it to a win or that it was all Martin and Hitchcock.

Now Quinn is taking a lot of flak for this loss. It's not fair to the old man..
Gretzky, the rest of the management team, Quinn and his coaches, all of the players. That who has to share in this blame. It cannot be heaped on any one area.

I just have a hard time believing that this team lacked leadership. I mean how many of Canada's players are captains,former captains or alternate captains on their NHL teams?

Blake
Foote
McCabe
Pronger
Redden
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Richards
Doan
Lecavalier
Nash
Smyth

how much more leadership do you need?!

Canada-Russia was a game between 2 very strong teams and somebody had to lose, it's all it is. what happened in the preliminary games is irrelevant because when Lemieux and Yzerman were there in 2002, they lost to Sweden 5:2 and beat Germany 3:2 in a similar fashion as they beat the Czechs this year.None of those players can hold a candle to Yzerman or Mario. Maybe Sakic.

Now maybe people will realize the 2 reasons why Canada has been considered the country to beat over the last 20 years. Gretzky and Lemieux.

Without them, we arent the best country anymore. We are the country with the most depth, which means nothing when you can only send 20some players.

I just have a hard time believing that this team lacked leadership. I mean how many of Canada's players are captains,former captains or alternate captains on their NHL teams?

Blake
Foote
McCabe
Pronger
Redden
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Richards
Doan
Lecavalier
Nash
Smyth

how much more leadership do you need?!

Canada-Russia was a game between 2 very strong teams and somebody had to lose, it's all it is. what happened in the preliminary games is irrelevant because when Lemieux and Yzerman were there in 2002, they lost to Sweden 5:2 and beat Germany 3:2 in a similar fashion as they beat the Czechs this year.

Agree. What Gretzky is saying is a load of crap plus a slight on Sakic and an excuse for himself because he picked a team based on "chemistry" and size over young talent and speed and he feels the players he picked let him down when in fact many of them played as well as they were playing when he picked them especially considering the open ice.

Agree. What Gretzky is saying is a load of crap plus a slight on Sakic and an excuse for himself because he picked a team based on "chemistry" and size over young talent and speed and he feels the players he picked let him down when in fact many of them played as well as they were playing when he picked them especially considering the open ice.
Thornton, Heatley, Gagne, Nash, Smyth, Redden, McCabe, etc. etc. played as well as when they were picked? Huh?

None of those players can hold a candle to Yzerman or Mario. Maybe Sakic.

Now maybe people will realize the 2 reasons why Canada has been considered the country to beat over the last 20 years. Gretzky and Lemieux.

Without them, we arent the best country anymore. We are the country with the most depth, which means nothing when you can only send 20some players.

Excellent point. :clap:

i thought they'd be ok. but now after the aftermath and reassessing the whole situation, they really did miss a 'legend' in their roster.

I completely disagree. The Canadian team should have been full of hungry young players. We needed less old vets and more young players.
hungry young players - with mario and stevie y

Finland doesn't have a Steve Yzerman or Mario Lemieux, and they're doing ok. Heck, they don't even have Joe Sakic!

Sounds like Gretz is coming out with excuses.

Pretty obviously they missed none of them. They only missed Lindros. He would also be able to contribute on the ice unlike those other two. And even more than Thornton, Sakic and the rest of the center-line. Theres no end to what Thorntons jaw and Lindros fist can achieve together.

Not trying to be direspectful here, but personally I dont consider Mario a "leader". Never really have. Maybe his aura as a hall of fame, all time great was missed in the locker room, but as far as leadership qualities....I never thought he posessed an abundance of those to begin with.

Canada will soon find out what Gretzky (on ice) and Mario meant to this country's success in international hockey. Their mystic will truly be missed, none of the upcoming Canadian superstars have that aura.

Canada will soon find out what Gretzky (on ice) and Mario meant to this country's success in international hockey. Their mystic will truly be missed, none of the upcoming Canadian superstars have that aura.
wow - that brought a tear to my eye - usually your out bashing and wacking -

couldn't have said it better myself - rather eloquent

Not trying to be direspectful here, but personally I dont consider Mario a "leader". Never really have. Maybe his aura as a hall of fame, all time great was missed in the locker room, but as far as leadership qualities....I never thought he posessed an abundance of those to begin with.
huh?

Didn't read the thread but ,no Gretzky wasn't right. He's deflecting criticism for not taking the great young players Canada has NOW.Canada didn't need 2 more players past their prime. the

Not trying to be direspectful here, but personally I dont consider Mario a "leader". Never really have. Maybe his aura as a hall of fame, all time great was missed in the locker room, but as far as leadership qualities....I never thought he posessed an abundance of those to begin with.


Just the fact of everything he has gone through in is life instantly makes him respected and a leader. His leadership skills have always been underrated.

But as for Gretzky, we as Canadians are such puppets when it comes to him. I love Gretzky, but everything he says isnt right all the time - just because its him saying it. He picked a poor team. In '02 he picked a great team, all the best players. By '04 he picked a team that had a few question marks but still got lucky. Then he goes with the same team in '06 and they look slow even vs. the Finns on the big ice. They lacked speed, they lacked scoring, they were wrong, yes folks Gretzky was WRONG!

So lets not be a bunch of lap dogs and believe everything he says. If Gretzky is so smart my question is how come he apparently didnt know that his wife of 18 years was involved in a gambling ring? But he says he didnt and we all believe him. Just like when the teams were picked. I remember just before he was being very evasive in an interview when saying that "you cant have all centres" referring to Staal, Crosby and Spezza. i knew right away he was going to cave in and go with a dumber team. I said it back in December that those three should have been there and Draper, Doan and Bertuzzi shouldnt have been.

Just look at the team The Hockey News picked before the announcement. Ask me if they would lose to the Swiss team? Or even the Russians. I dont think they would. But throw Bertuzzi and McCabe on the team and you're guaranteed to have a few needless penalties.

Did Canada lose because they didn't have enough goal scorers on the roster? No, they folded under the immense pressure in a spectacular way. Of course Gretzky was right about needing Yzerman or Lemieux. Call me crazy but I bet Gretzky knows more about what is needed to perform under incredible pressure than all you people.

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

Okay, lets look at the flipside. Russia also didn't have a "legend' captaining their team. I also don't think Alex Kovalev is a better leader than Joe Sakic....

(Oddly enought team Russia did worse in the 2002 Olympics with Larionov the legend captaining them than they did with Bure in '98.)

There's more pressure on Canada to win than any other country.

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

I've always said that this team had too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

That was true with the players and that was also true with the coaches. Who was the real coach? Quinn or Hitchcock?

Then there are the players. Because most of the 2002 guys grew up watching Lemieux perform his wizardry on the ice as little boys, they all were in awe of him, giving him instant respect. And add to that Stevie Y's inspirational, self sacrificing performance and leadership, the team had no choice but to follow.

However, without these two, there was no clear cut leader...and everybody did their own thing. I've always said, as great a player Sakic is, he was no Stevie Y or Jean Beliveau.

Where Gretzky made his mistake was selecting an Oylimpic version of the pre-2005 NY Rangers. Lazy fat a$$es who were selfish and spoiled. It would have helped if Wayne had learned from Glen Sather's mistakes and took individuals who were willing to compete, instead of lazy, lard a$$es that he took.

It's actually really funny because Gretz says in one of his earlier bio-graphies that the problem with the 1981 Canada Cup team was that exactly what I said, that "there were too many chiefs and not enough Indians on that team!"

Where do you think I got that phrase from...Wayne Gretzky himself some 25 years ago!!!! Too bad he has such bad memory...and as I said before, it looks like he and 90% of Canada already had forgotten the lessons learned from Nagano as well.

Shame.

There's more pressure on Canada to win than any other country.
Yeah, I guess 2002 Canada didn't have any pressure. Or the 19 year olds who took part in Team Canada's WJC tournament last year. Or USA, Russia or any of those other hockey power houses.

Merely an excuse. You don't see Yzerman or Lemieux on Russia or Finland, and it looks like a kids Malkin and Ovechkin are having as much problem with the "pressure" as NHL vets Iginla, Sakic, Pronger, ect.

Yeah, I guess 2002 Canada didn't have any pressure. Or the 19 year olds who took part in Team Canada's WJC tournament last year. Or USA, Russia or any of those other hockey power houses.

Merely an excuse. You don't see Yzerman or Lemieux on Russia or Finland, and it looks like a kids Malkin and Ovechkin are having as much problem with the "pressure" as NHL vets Iginla, Sakic, Pronger, ect.

Yeah there was pressure in 2002, but they also had Lemieux and Yzerman. That is the whole point. And no, USA and Russia don't have the same kind of pressure to win gold as Canada does, that's pretty much common knowledge.

And Gretzky isn't using that as an excuse for why they lost. He merely said they missed them, and he also said that wasn't an excuse for them not playing well. Also, that they would rethink the way they pick the team for next time.

Did Canada lose because they didn't have enough goal scorers on the roster? No, they folded under the immense pressure in a spectacular way. Of course Gretzky was right about needing Yzerman or Lemieux. Call me crazy but I bet Gretzky knows more about what is needed to perform under incredible pressure than all you people.

Not to insult hockey players or the sport in general, but playing a sport and being paid millions of dollars is not really pressure. Please don't use this term so loosely, because these professional athletes don't know what real pressure is.

So, I would say the average joe here on HFboards has experienced more 'real' pressure than Wayne has in his entire life. Stop putting these athletes on such a high pedestal. They played a sport for a living.

Not to insult hockey players or the sport in general, but playing a sport and being paid millions of dollars is not really pressure. Please don't use this term so loosely, because these professional athletes don't know what real pressure is.

So, I would say the average joe here on HFboards has experienced more 'real' pressure than Wayne has in his entire life. Stop putting these athletes on such a high pedestal. They played a sport for a living.
I wouldn't say they don't know how to deal with pressure, but tell Jarome Iginla he's doesn't know how to play in a pressure packed game. Or Joe Sakic. That's full BS.

The odd phenomena is that when any other worker, be it a highly rated investor, chief engineer, star lawyer or whathaveyou screw up, they are lamblasted with critisism (as expected). When its our beloved Team Canada? We coax them, give them a message, say thanks for trying and tell them its ok. I know they arn't at the Olympics as a profession or whathaveyou, but there is no way they should be excused from a lack luster effort.

I wouldn't say they don't know how to deal with pressure, but tell Jarome Iginla he's doesn't know how to play in a pressure packed game. Or Joe Sakic. That's full BS.

The odd phenomena is that when any other worker, be it a highly rated investor, chief engineer, star lawyer or whathaveyou screw up, they are lamblasted with critisism (as expected). When its our beloved Team Canada? We coax them, give them a message, say thanks for trying and tell them its ok. I know they arn't at the Olympics as a profession or whathaveyou, but there is no way they should be excused from a lack luster effort.

Buddy, they are playing a game. Stop using the word 'pressure' so loosely. All these players were pampered ever since they started playing hockey. They don't know what 'real' pressure is like the average joe living on a minimum wage. Please stop.

Not to insult hockey players or the sport in general, but playing a sport and being paid millions of dollars is not really pressure. Please don't use this term so loosely, because these professional athletes don't know what real pressure is.

So, I would say the average joe here on HFboards has experienced more 'real' pressure than Wayne has in his entire life. Stop putting these athletes on such a high pedestal. They played a sport for a living.

I disagree on this.

It is only a game but there is tremendous pressure...pressure from the entire country!!! If you screw up at work, then there is the obvious pressure but it is not televised all over the world for millions of people to jump all over you! And done at the professional stage like NHL, this is costing your team millions of dollars in revenue.

They have tremedous pressure that normal people do not have to ever deal with.

I disagree on this.

It is only a game but there is tremendous pressure...pressure from the entire country!!! If you screw up at work, then there is the obvious pressure but it is not televised all over the world for millions of people to jump all over you! And done at the professional stage like NHL, this is costing your team millions of dollars in revenue.

They have tremedous pressure that normal people do not have to ever deal with.

Oh please give me a break!!! Do you actually believe they are losing any sleep after losing to the Russians?? Please!! They hop on a plane, then they go back to their mansions to make love to their trophy wives. The lost to the russians is completely forgotten the next day. If you call that pressure then I would love to experience this way of life.

Real pressure, is somebody having to work 12 hour shifts and being worried that he has enough income to support his family day in and day out. Stop being so delusional.

Oh please give me a break!!! Do you actually believe they are losing any sleep after losing to the Russians?? Please!! They hop on a plane, then they go back to their mansions to make love to their trophy wives. The lost to the russians is completely forgotten the next day.

Real pressure, is somebody having to work 12 hour shifts and being worried that he has enough income to support his family day in and day out. Stop being so delusional.
I would hope so.

What exactly do you do that sets you on such a high level that you can look down on professional athletes and say they have no pressure in their jobs?

I'll agree that these guys should know how to deal with pressure, and at the level they are at, have handled in many different situations, but to suggest that they have it easy is stupid.

And I really don't think your idea of "real pressure" is accurately on the dot. Pressure comes with expectations, and if your a lowly 12-hour a day, barely minimum wage worker, you probably don't have that much expected of you. Outside of the entertainment business, most "real pressure" jobs are regulated by a standard and code of ethics.

I would hope so.

What exactly do you do that sets you on such a high level that you can look down on professional athletes and say they have no pressure in their jobs?

I'll agree that these guys should know how to deal with pressure, and at the level they are at, have handled in many different situations, but to suggest that they have it easy is stupid.

And I really don't think your idea of "real pressure" is accurately on the dot. Pressure comes with expectations, and if your a lowly 12-hour a day, barely minimum wage worker, you probably don't have that much expected of you. Outside of the entertainment business, most "real pressure" jobs are regulated by a standard and code of ethics.

Stop people are forced into situations in life where they have to deal with this 'real pressure'. And yes, professional athletes do have it easy, don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. I see montreal canadian players having a blast in downtown montreal after a devastasting lost. You think they actually feel tremendous pressure if they lose?? They are oblivious to the hardcore fans reaction.

None of those players can hold a candle to Yzerman or Mario. Maybe Sakic.

Now maybe people will realize the 2 reasons why Canada has been considered the country to beat over the last 20 years. Gretzky and Lemieux.

Without them, we arent the best country anymore. We are the country with the most depth, which means nothing when you can only send 20some players.

Must have fluked out when we won all of those gold medals in the world Juniors in the 20-some years since Mario graduated into the pro ranks.

Stop people are forced into situations in life where they have to deal with this 'real pressure'. And yes, professional athletes do have it easy, don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. I see montreal canadian players having a blast in downtown montreal after a devastasting lost. You think they actually feel tremendous pressure if they lose?? They are oblivious to the hardcore fans reaction.
I've also seen Rhett Warraner rip Robyn Regehr a new ******* after a bad game in game 15 (?) of the regular season, and Iginla (wow, he cared once?) almost got into a fight with Regehr after a game (50?) when he made a bad play.

Maybe that particular player was a loser? Some players have pride, some don't give a damn. I could name numours Flames players (Fleury, Savard, Val Bure...) who cared little about whether the team won or lost, but how many points they got.

On a whole, many players have pride for what they do. Too bad this editions of Team Canada severly lacked it.

Oh please give me a break!!! Do you actually believe they are losing any sleep after losing to the Russians?? Please!! They hop on a plane, then they go back to their mansions to make love to their trophy wives. The lost to the russians is completely forgotten the next day. If you call that pressure then I would love to experience this way of life.

Real pressure, is somebody having to work 12 hour shifts and being worried that he has enough income to support his family day in and day out. Stop being so delusional.


This is funny. So you actually think these athletes dont work hard? Do you think they have slept through life to be where they are? They have worked as hard as anyone else who is at the top of their profession. And it is ridiculous to say they arent under pressure or are are just some sort of slack offs. Mansions just dont appear out of nowhere.

This is funny. So you actually think these athletes dont work hard? Do you think they have slept through life to be where they are? They have worked as hard as anyone else who is at the top of their profession. And it is ridiculous to say they arent under pressure or are are just some sort of slack offs. Mansions just dont appear out of nowhere.

Sure they train hard and so forth, but do you actually think the life of a professional athlete is stressful?? I'd take their way of life any day of the week, playing a game for a living.

Sure they train hard and so forth, but do you actually think the life of a professional athlete is stressful?? I'd take their way of life any day of the week, playing a game for a living.

What part of their life? When they have to perform on the ice? I am sure they are under pressure. When they are in their mansions having a good time? I am sure they arent under prssure but they have woked hard for that leisure.

What part of their life? When they have to perform on the ice? I am sure they are under pressure. When they are in their mansions having a good time? I am sure they arent under prssure but they have woked hard for that leisure.

These guys were born with unbelievable talent. Heck, Lemieux never practiced during his younger years. I wouldn't necessarily call it hard work when you're practicing how to put a puck in a net. And how long is practice?? A couple of hours a day?? It's called physical conditioning mostly, and as for myself I enjoy practicing or working out whether it's hockey or lifting weights.

These guys were born with unbelievable talent. Heck, Lemieux never practiced during his younger years. I wouldn't necessarily call it hard work when you're practicing how to put a puck in a net. And how long is practice?? A couple of hours a day?? It's called physical conditioning mostly, and as for myself I enjoy practicing or working out whether it's hockey or lifting weights.


Is it me or you have some sort of inferiority complex with NHL players? Yeah, they have talent but they did work on it. You think you work out as much as these NHL players? You think you could survive a 60 minute game against them? I cant believe you are comparing yourself with them. Just because they make alot of money doesnt mean they arent human.

and how do you know Lemieux never practiced? Got any proof?

Is it me or you have some sort of inferiority complex with NHL players? Yeah, they have talent but they did work on it. You think you work out as much as these NHL players? You think you could survive a 60 minute game against them? I cant believe you are comparing yourself with them. Just because they make alot of money doesnt mean they arent human.

and how do you know Lemieux never practiced? Got any proof?

Lemieux never worked out and didn't practice hard when he was younger. He admits this himself in his autobiography. Read it yourself.

YOu fail to understand my point. I'm just explaining how the term pressure is thrown around to loosely. Quite frankly the ones with the real pressure are actually the head coaches, that i'll agree with. If the coach loses, then his job is in doubt. As for the actual superstar player, he simply comes back the next game and tries to put out a better effort than the previous game.

Lemieux never worked out and didn't practice hard when he was younger. He admits this himself in his autobiography. Read it yourself.

YOu fail to understand my point. I'm just explaining how the term pressure is thrown around to loosely. Quite frankly the ones with the real pressure are actually the head coaches, that i'll agree with. If the coach loses, then his job is in doubt. As for the actual superstar player, he simply comes back the next game and tries to put out a better effort than the previous game.

There is no doubt that the coaches are under pressure but it is ridiculous to suggest it is any different for the players. Yeah, they try harder the next game because they are working for someone therefore they have to a.k.a pressure. The players do care about playing the game.

And Lemieux is a special case. He was very talented but to suggest an average NHL player doesnt work out or eat healthy is ridiculous.

Let's just agree to disagree seeing as this is getting nowhere.

I've only read the first page.

But Messier is a much better leader than Lemieux or Yzerman... but the fact is they were all too old.

Oh please give me a break!!! Do you actually believe they are losing any sleep after losing to the Russians?? Please!! They hop on a plane, then they go back to their mansions to make love to their trophy wives. The lost to the russians is completely forgotten the next day. If you call that pressure then I would love to experience this way of life.

Real pressure, is somebody having to work 12 hour shifts and being worried that he has enough income to support his family day in and day out. Stop being so delusional.


Above is a typical comment from a french canadian with a visor....
If you dont think that loss will have an effect on any of those players watch the next 30 or so games in the NHL. There will be a post Olympic hangover, I assure you. You work 12hrs a day, boo hoo and welcome to the real world.

Sure they train hard and so forth, but do you actually think the life of a professional athlete is stressful?? I'd take their way of life any day of the week, playing a game for a living.

keyword: this is their lives

they train and train and train, and ENTIRE COUNTRY is watching them.

yes, it's incredibly stressfull nomatter how you slice it.

Above is a typical comment from a french canadian with a visor....
If you dont think that loss will have an effect on any of those players watch the next 30 or so games in the NHL. There will be a post Olympic hangover, I assure you. You work 12hrs a day, boo hoo and welcome to the real world.

First of all, just because i live in MTL doesn't mean i'm french canadian, i happen to be an anglo. I could also tell that you are very biggoted towards french canadians.

Secondly, i don't work 12hrs/day, i was just giving an example.

And lastly, i do not believe that this lost will have a lingering effect on the Canadian players. Their NHL teams are far more important to them then the olympics.

keyword: this is their lives

they train and train and train, and ENTIRE COUNTRY is watching them.

yes, it's incredibly stressfull nomatter how you slice it.

I doubt it's stressful for the canadian professional hockey players. For heaven's sake, they bring along their whole families to the olympics. It's like a little vacation for them. But for the rest of the Canadian athletes (ie: cindy klassen, beckie scott....), it is stressful. Don't even compare the NHL Canadian players to the REAL athletes at the olympics.

I just have a hard time believing that this team lacked leadership. I mean how many of Canada's players are captains,former captains or alternate captains on their NHL teams?

Blake
Foote
McCabe
Pronger
Redden
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Richards
Doan
Lecavalier
Nash
Smyth
.

How many of those guys are legends? Other than Sakic, there aren't really any elder statesmen in the group.
I really think Shanahan should have been there.

Canada has plenty of talent, having a Lemieux or Yzerman would deflect attention from some of the other guys IMO.

Weren't alot of these guys together for the world cup when they won? Sure maybe they could've used a guy like Crosby(they may have been protecting him if you think about it)

I don't see the players that were picked as the problem, there was enough talent and proven scoring there to have a chance to win. If guys like Staal, Spezza, Crosy, Phaneuf, etc, didn't even exist this team would have been considered one of the favourites going itno the Games.

The problem is that the team didn't come together and almost everyone underachieved. That is a combination of coaching, systems put in place, line combos, and player motivation (both from within the players themselves and from coaches). This comes down to management and coaching yes. But not player selection.

You have the best avatar I have ever seen.

Must have fluked out when we won all of those gold medals in the world Juniors in the 20-some years since Mario graduated into the pro ranks.How many did we win in those 20 years?

I'm not saying we suck, I'm saying we are not heads and shoulder above the rest of the planet, as some people seem to think. Hopefully, looking at last years lock-out-induced stacked-WJ-team result, we will be back on our throne in a few years again.

Oh please give me a break!!! Do you actually believe they are losing any sleep after losing to the Russians?? Please!! They hop on a plane, then they go back to their mansions to make love to their trophy wives. The lost to the russians is completely forgotten the next day. If you call that pressure then I would love to experience this way of life.

Real pressure, is somebody having to work 12 hour shifts and being worried that he has enough income to support his family day in and day out. Stop being so delusional..I see its late in Montreal while you are posting this. Are you drunk, or do you really think the way your posts indicate. If so, wow.

I doubt it's stressful for the canadian professional hockey players. For heaven's sake, they bring along their whole families to the olympics. It's like a little vacation for them. But for the rest of the Canadian athletes (ie: cindy klassen, beckie scott....), it is stressful. Don't even compare the NHL Canadian players to the REAL athletes at the olympics.

So NHLers aren't real athletes now? And what if cindy klassen's family is in Italy too, does that mean she's not a real athlete anymore either? Your argument is actually getting weaker the more you say.

So NHLers aren't real athletes now? And what if cindy klassen's family is in Italy too, does that mean she's not a real athlete anymore either? Your argument is actually getting weaker the more you say.

Learn to read, i'm talking about the stress and pressure level between amateur athletes and NHL pros. Such ignorance.

Learn to read, i'm talking about the stress and pressure level between amateur athletes and NHL pros. Such ignorance.

So amateur athletes are under more stress and pressure than hockey players that have millions of people watch them and critique their work pretty much all year. As opposed to those that nobody cares about other than for a couple weeks every four years. And all this means that they are REAL athletes. This makes hockey players what? Something like hobbyists?

Sure they train hard and so forth, but do you actually think the life of a professional athlete is stressful?? I'd take their way of life any day of the week, playing a game for a living.

Why don't you ask Bill Buckner, if you can track him down in South Dakota. Or he he was still alive, the California Angels relief pitcher who killed himself years after he could not close out the playoff series against the Red Sox in 1986.

Not trying to be direspectful here, but personally I dont consider Mario a "leader". Never really have. Maybe his aura as a hall of fame, all time great was missed in the locker room, but as far as leadership qualities....I never thought he posessed an abundance of those to begin with.

Thanks for having the guts to stand up and say this! Being a generational talent doesn't make you a leader. Many of the best leaders in hockey are the guys that absolutely have to bust their ***** to contribute - guys like Dirk Graham or Kelly Buchberger. I don't see how having Mario or Stevie Y around and this point would be a benefit to the team.

It seems that people are saying "we needed more speed and skill, so Staal & Crosby should of been there", and "we needed more leadership, so Yzerman & Lemiuex should be there". Those 2 things are diametrically opposed. Anyone see Mario or Stevie Y play this year? If they were needed, they should of been on the coaching staff if anything, because they aren't able to contribute on the ice.

So amateur athletes are under more stress and pressure than hockey players that have millions of people watch them and critique their work pretty much all year. As opposed to those that nobody cares about other than for a couple weeks every four years. And all this means that they are REAL athletes. This makes hockey players what? Something like hobbyists?

You have no idea what the amateurs have to do to succeed. They are training since 5am, going to school and having part-time jobs to pay for the training. Hockey players are athletes, but in terms of pressure and stress there is no comparison, the amateurs are the embodiement of the olympic spirit.

Why don't you ask Bill Buckner, if you can track him down in South Dakota. Or he he was still alive, the California Angels relief pitcher who killed himself years after he could not close out the playoff series against the Red Sox in 1986.

That relief pitcher's tradegy is more related to his personal life than what happened on the baseball field.

You have no idea what the amateurs have to do to succeed. They are training since 5am, going to school and having part-time jobs to pay for the training. Hockey players are athletes, but in terms of pressure and stress there is no comparison, the amateurs are the embodiement of the olympic spirit.Why do you say that someone has no idea? How many olympic athletes do you know?

I have friends that are on the World Cup ski circuit (freestyle and dh) and went to Salt Lake, and you are out to lunch. Sorry.

Everyone at the games trains hard and has pressure. NHLers and amatuers alike.

Why do you say that someone has no idea? How many olympic athletes do you know?

I have friends that are on the World Cup ski circuit (freestyle and dh) and went to Salt Lake, and you are out to lunch. Sorry.

Everyone at the games trains hard and has pressure. NHLers and amatuers alike.

Actually i've known two amateur athletes who went to Mcgill University. The training regimen along with their part-time jobs and studies is really stressful. Don't even compare the two.

Actually i've known two amateur athletes who went to Mcgill University. The training regimen along with their part-time jobs and studies is really stressful. Don't even compare the two.But wheres the stress? When your friends retire in their 30s, they will have a university education and will move on. One of my friends is starting a landscaping company with the contacts he made working in the offseason, another buddy is coaching. Their lives arent made or broken by their performance, because they are unable to make a living off of it, unlike NHLers.

The NHLers are going to be scrutinized for the next 4 years for their loss. The amatuers get forgotten the day after they win or lose. Then they move on.

I'm not sure what your agenda is, but youre making no sence. If you really think NHLers have a cakewalk life compared to amatuer athletes, then, I guess have fun in your reality. You share it with no-one. They all train hard and make huge sacrifices to get to where they are, amaturs and pros.

But wheres the stress? When your friends retire in their 30s, they will have a university education and will move on. One of my friends is starting a landscaping company with the contacts he made working in the offseason, another buddy is coaching. Their lives arent made or broken by their performance, because they are unable to make a living off of it, unlike NHLers.

The NHLers are going to be scrutinized for the next 4 years for their loss. The amatuers get forgotten the day after they win or lose. Then they move on.

I'm not sure what your agenda is, but youre making no sence. If you really think NHLers have a cakewalk life compared to amatuer athletes, then, I guess have fun in your reality. You share it with no-one. They all train hard and make huge sacrifices to get to where they are, amaturs and pros.

You've got to be kidding me. Where's the stress?? It is quite clear that i cannot have a rational explanation about this topic since so many here think that hockey players are the gods and the greatest athletes on earth. I'm done with this.

You've got to be kidding me. Where's the stress?? It is quite clear that i cannot have a rational explanation about this topic since so many here think that hockey players are the gods and the greatest athletes on earth. I'm done with this.Good.

If you actually read my posts, I never said that the hockey players are gods. You are the one downplaying what NHLers have to go through, saying they are just playing a game and all the other comical ******** you are spewing.

I know what NHLers, hockey players that play in lesser leagues, and athletes going to the olympics all have to go through. Its all more than 99% of the people on here could manage. You dont know what you are talking about. Sorry.

You've got to be kidding me. Where's the stress?? It is quite clear that i cannot have a rational explanation about this topic since so many here think that hockey players are the gods and the greatest athletes on earth. I'm done with this.
c ya

Actually i've known two amateur athletes who went to Mcgill University. The training regimen along with their part-time jobs and studies is really stressful. Don't even compare the two.

For all you know I'm an olympic athlete myself. Holy arrogance.