Team Canada: What went WRONG? Coaching? Chemistry? Players? Equipment Manager?H2OBOY? [Archive]

The Fuhr

02-22-2006, 04:57 PM

Team Canada suffering from Ottawa Senator syndrom. Cant score a goal in an impotant game. How the hell was Marleau,Taunguay,Spezza,Stall and Kariya not on this team. We could not score goals those players certanly could have netted a few. Those players bring a great deal of speed on the open ice. This team Canada had too many power forwards that could not cut it on the bigger ice surface. I hope Gretzky never picks another team Canada again, Quinn coached this team like they were the Maple Leafs the Defense sucks. Terrible day to be a fan of team Canada. I can't wait tell the NHL season starts back up

ranold26

02-22-2006, 04:57 PM

Discipline.
Not shooting.
Passing too much.
Horrid breakouts.
Lack of Physical play.

Take a pick.

Eddie Vedder

02-22-2006, 04:58 PM

bertuzzi and his dumb penalty started it off

pronger sucks

You summed it up.

Penalties and discipline. fatal, fatal flaw.

Doan was canadas tournament MVP (after Martin Brodeur, ofcourse.)

RandV

02-22-2006, 05:01 PM

Of course some one's gonna come out and blamr Bertuzzi... especially funny with a name like ProngerRocks. That aside though, a team this talented getting shut out 3 times in 6 games, I think you have to look at the coaching staff. Oh well, bring on the next generation.

Snap Wilson

02-22-2006, 05:04 PM

CanFan05

02-22-2006, 05:07 PM

I think that Lemieux, Niedermayer and Yzerman were bigger than we think on Team Canada. Also, the uninspired play of the whole defensive corps (that showed SOME flashes of greatness individually) shows how much the coaching staff coulndt light a fire under the players *****. We had a bunch of potential 50 goal scorer on the team (Nash, Iginla, Heatley, etc) but nothing panned out cuz we had no system watsoever....

Resolutions :
Keep Gretzky, out with Quinn, Martin and hitchcock (if Gretzky allows that)
Get more youth on the team : Crosby, Phaneuf, Spezza (even though he's slow for big ice surfaces), etc...

Anyway, we lost and we'll have to wait 4 years before trying to reclaim our title as best hockey team in the world... I think that Finland will win gold.

loudi94

02-22-2006, 05:09 PM

Doan was canadas tournament MVP (after Martin Brodeur, ofcourse.)

That my friend sums it all up for this year's Olympic team.

The_Eck

02-22-2006, 05:10 PM

mr gib

02-22-2006, 05:16 PM

Is it just me or will we be seeing a totally new attitude for Vancouver in 2010? Right about now I don't mind seeing an injection of Crosby and Phanuef for the next games. The youth is anxiously anticipated at this point IMO. Also change up Quinn, man part of the gelling blame should go towards the coaching staff

Where do you think this team went wrong?
time to blow it up - the loss makes it easy for the brass to walk away -

i also think 2010 should be the last time the nhl goes the olympics

joe_shannon_1983*

02-22-2006, 05:17 PM

I think that Lemieux, Niedermayer and Yzerman were bigger than we think on Team Canada.

Yes. I agree. I was saying the exact same things back in October-December. I was saying back before the team was ever picked that I hoped at least one of (if not both of) Lemieux and Yzerman would play this year.

But people laughed at me, and said that Lemieux and Yzerman were not needed and would be useless.

rec28

02-22-2006, 05:17 PM

IcedTea

02-22-2006, 05:18 PM

:dunno: :dunno: I am embarrassed to be a Canadian. This team was the biggest bunch of losers to ever lace up skates. They suck arse. If I had the world's biggest bag of ketchup chips I wouldn't share with any of them.
:madfire: :madfire: :cry: :cry: :help: :rant:
I'm embarrassed to be Canadian because of people like you.

Daily Special

02-22-2006, 05:18 PM

Chemistry and work ethic did in all of the North Americans. Initial complacency and ineffective gameplans to deal with a wall of defense put up by the European teams. In the end their system was beaten by the European system.

Grinders weren't as much a factor as Gretzky thought. The entire Olympics has been about which team had the talent to score when the other team made a mistake. Youngsters made the difference for Russia during the prelims and of course in the quarters. Canada could have used some of that. Sakic, Draper and Bertuzzi were completely ineffective. No Staal, no Phaneuf, no Spezza, no Crosby, and ultimately no effective system = no Gold. :teach:

VAN-HAB

02-22-2006, 05:18 PM

Crosby, Marleau, Staal, Spezza, Crosby, Tanguay and Phaneuf !!!!

backcheck

02-22-2006, 05:19 PM

mr gib

02-22-2006, 05:19 PM

Schenn02

02-22-2006, 05:20 PM

I think you guys summed it up. Bertuzzi was the biggest problem, Coaching, yes, a lot of things. From the way they played in the preliminary rounds, they didn't deserve to win.

To the person who is embarrassed to be Canadian, DON'T BE. OMG whats wrong with you??? Its one hockey game. Canada has soooo many other athletes who don't make millions of dollars that go out there and give it their all!!!

mr gib

02-22-2006, 05:20 PM

creative giant*

02-22-2006, 05:21 PM

The blame has to lay with the players. This team should have been good enough to win a gold, but a lot of them were playing as individuals. When you have selfish players (like Rick Nash for example) no team can win.

Plus, where were the snipers? Iginla, Bertuzzi, Nash??? These guys were invisible. Add into it dumb penalties by players (Hello Pronger!) and it's an early exit.

You can blame the management for leaving players off the team, but every player that was picked is a leader on their respective NHL clubs and they didn't gel together as a team.

Rated R Superstar

02-22-2006, 05:23 PM

Where was Phaneuf, where was Staal, where was Crosby??? There not good enough but Draper is??? Could somebody please explain to me why they would take guys like Draper and St. Louis before Staal and Crosby? I tough the Olympics was about bringning the best of the best? :confused:

Ry-Dogg

02-22-2006, 05:26 PM

well for starters tanguay, spezza, crosby and Phaneuf would have made a huge difference, (examples, Ovechkin/Malkin for Russia) i know we had more to choose from but that would have been big, also the moral dilemma of taking sweden's advice and throwing the game vs. the Czech's slovakia would have been a much easier opponent for canada, we would have gotten a shot at a medal most likely sad as it is, we could have thrown the game and be playing friday, or have pride in ourselves and lose in the QF's

loudi94

02-22-2006, 05:26 PM

oil slick

02-22-2006, 05:30 PM

Firstly I'll say that I think no matter what team Canada ices, there is always a good chance that they will not win a tournament.There are 5 or 6 teams capable of winning on any given day there is so much talent in the world, and to win it all requires beating 3 teams in a row.

To me the blame for this tourney has to land a bit on the forwards... getting shutout in 3 of the last 4 games just doesn't give you a chance to win. I know loyalty is good and all, but I definately think you have to include the players who are tearing up the league this year.

Luno

02-22-2006, 05:32 PM

When you have selfish players (like Rick Nash for example) no team can win.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I don't think Nash had enough time on the ice to even think about being 'selfish.' Believe me, Canada had bigger problems than people being 'selfish.'

Plus, where were the snipers? Iginla, Bertuzzi, Nash??? These guys were invisible. Add into it dumb penalties by players (Hello Pronger!) and it's an early exit.

Nash is by no means a 'sniper.' Unless we consider him parking his rear in front of the net and getting garbage goals to be sniping these days.

lennie

02-22-2006, 05:36 PM

I think you guys summed it up. Bertuzzi was the biggest problem, Coaching, yes, a lot of things. From the way they played in the preliminary rounds, they didn't deserve to win.

Look I am not a Bertuzzi apologist nor a fan. But to heap all the blame on him. Sorry its just flat out wrong. Where was Sakic, Iginla, Nash, Heatly etc. etc.
I think Nash to more dumb penalties than anybody :dunno:

For gods sake we didn't score in 50% of our games! 3 Shutouts.

I love Gretzky, but as much praise as he got for Salt Lake. He should be taking some heat for this.

Props to Russia They were the better team. Good luck against Finland :clap:

Luno

02-22-2006, 05:38 PM

Look I am not a Bertuzzi apologist nor a fan. But to heap all the blame on him. Sorry its just flat out wrong. Where was Sakic, Iginla, Nash, Heatly etc. etc.

Right on, there was not one single player who Canada can place this on. Whether it was a lack of effort or a lack of chemistry between the players, they simply did not get the job done. Better luck next year.

bearcat11

02-22-2006, 05:38 PM

The problem was clearly scoring. We played well defensively, didn't allow more than 2 goals in any game. Goaltending was good. Scoring was an embarassment. But I think we all should have seen that coming when the team selected the top scorers from two years ago, not from this year. This team was clearly decided before this year's season even began. Spezza and Staal couldn't have played any better, yet were still left off. Scoring was the problem, and if you look at the top Canadian scorers in the NHL very few of them were on this team. Marleau, Savard, Tanguay, Crosby, Staal, Spezza can all score NOW, most of the player on this team could score two years ago.

glue

02-22-2006, 05:38 PM

oil slick

02-22-2006, 05:39 PM

Look I am not a Bertuzzi apologist nor a fan. But to heap all the blame on him. Sorry its just flat out wrong. Where was Sakic, Iginla, Nash, Heatly etc. etc.

For gods sake we didn't score in 50% of our games! 3 Shutouts.

I love Gretzky, but as much praise as he got for Salt Lake. He should be taking some heat for this.

Props to Russia They were the better team. Good luck against Finland

I agree - I think Bertuzzi had a much better tourney than certainly Sakic or Heatley (Iginla and Nash didn't fo much either)... we definately had som absent hockey players.

tangible_faith

02-22-2006, 05:39 PM

What went wrong? They just didn't gel and they were outplayed. Simple as that. Seriously, we Canadians have to stop acting as though we have a God-given right to eternal hockey-supremacy. We will lose occasionally - it's that simple.

There was nothing wrong with Gretzky's selections - this team *should* have been good enough. For whatever reason, they just couldn't put it together. Better luck next time...
Well said.
Anybody who follows hockey enough can put a Canadian team together. My 12 year old next door neighbour could have put a team together. Really, is the playing of Spezza or Crosby going to win you games over playing Bertuzzi Draper etc. It might, but a player is not going to win a tournament single handedly.
They just didn't gel. I don't think that it was coached to well either.

CANADA still is the best hocky country. Just because you don't win gold doesn't mean you are no the best. It means you were not the best team at the tournament. Canada could put two more teams in that could have won gold. If Canada was allowed to put in three teams they could sweep the medals. How many countries can put in more than one team? Why can't we put in more than one team? It happens in other sports. There are lots of countries that have more than one athlete participating in the same sports. Canada had two people competeing for a speed skating medal today and won gold and silver. Why can't it be done for hockey? Instead you have an Italian team that is basically Canadian players living in Italy. Germany, Latvia, Kazaakastan( which I thought was an area of Pakistan that downloaded music) and ths Swiss(althouhg they did play well)

mattbnh

02-22-2006, 05:41 PM

Olympic hockey should be U23 like soccer. get rid of all the fossils. They have made big money and are too jaded. Some of these guys (US Modano for example) act like they are entitled rather than honored to be in the olympics. For leadership, you can have a couple of exemptions for older players to the U23 rule.

callighenfan

02-22-2006, 05:41 PM

On paper, the players were plenty good enough, the GM was plenty good enough, the coaching staff was plenty good enough.

But the other teams played like the crests on their chests mattered to them. Vets like Kozlov, kids like Ovechkin, lumps on skates like Aki Berg, struggling 'tenders like Aebescher—they all played out of their skins because they were playing for their national programs. With the exception of Ryan Smyth, Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Shane Doan, and that's about it, our guys played like they couldn't wait to get back to their club teams. Four years ago, it meant something to them. This time, it didn't seem like it did.

And though I can't fault Gretzky for going with the horses whut brung him there, 2006 has been a good argument for mixing up the team, tailoring it to the size of the ice surface, and not always sticking with "your" guys.

Grizzly Adams

02-22-2006, 05:42 PM

Coaching and player selection.

Ronald Pagan

02-22-2006, 05:42 PM

I am embarrassed to be a Canadian. This team was the biggest bunch of losers to ever lace up skates. They suck arse. If I had the world's biggest bag of ketchup chips I wouldn't share with any of them.

I'm embarrassed to be Canadian because of people like you.

Canadians with senses of humour like mclusky's make me proud to be Canadian. That's about all we can be proud of right about now.

Lard_Lad

02-22-2006, 05:42 PM

Sutter for coach in 2010. Darryl, Brent, doesn't matter which. Hell, even one of their sisters would be preferable to this.

Guy Legend

02-22-2006, 05:44 PM

You really have to question why some guys like Staal, Crosby, etc. were not on the team, while guys like Bertuzzi were.

Also regarding Pronger's bad penalties, not suprising considering I'm a Blues fan used to watching him in the playoffs.

BlueAndWhite

02-22-2006, 05:46 PM

Canadians with senses of humour like mclusky's make me proud to be Canadian. That's about all we can be proud of right about now.

Right.

Because hockey in one specific tournament is what defines us completely as a nation ?

rec28

02-22-2006, 05:47 PM

...I love Gretzky, but as much praise as he got for Salt Lake. He should be taking some heat for this.

But, why? This team was every bit as talented as 2002 - probably moreso, and had a good mix of youth and experience (yes, I know that many would like to have seen more youth). Player talent was NOT the problem. The team played like a bunch of disinterested individuals - there's really nothing Gretzky can do when the players decide to **** the bed.

Hindsight is 20/20. Remember that the team was picked in mid-December. Picking more than one completely-green rookie - no matter how good they may have been playing at the time - would have been irresponsible. On top of that, Canada is so deep in talent that there is no clear division between a Team A and a Team B.

This team should have been good enough to dominate.

PoolyBoys

02-22-2006, 05:47 PM

All of them should be ashamed to of been apart of this team. Who is to blame? ALL OF THEM. Start at the top Mr. Wayne he picked them. Every team that is winning at the games has young talent to bad we left ours at home or on the Taxi squad. Experience is good if the players can skate. Sure glad we took Doan and Drapper, we needed to stop goals after we scored, oh ya we couldnt score! :clap: Now the young guns have no experience for the 2010 games at home and for what so they could do this?

One last little point, Mr Moore and his Layer should be deported. What an idiot! he files suit against Bertuzi the day of game 1. Your an idiot, you threw off the best player in game 1 and he was never the same throughout the rest of the tourney. I dont know if you deserve anything for what happened to you but you helped take the most important GOLD metal away from 35 million Canadians and for that I hope you get nothing in any court anywhere. Your parents suing him just proves that you and your family are a bunch of NUTS and only think of yourselves!!!!!!!!!!!! :huh:

Thank God for Brad and the Boys on the curling rink and all thoses who have medaled at the games at least they have made us proud.

Poolyboys.

Parch

02-22-2006, 05:50 PM

Giving up one powerplay goal definately WAS NOT the problem. Canada had just as many poweplays as the Russians but failed to score. It was the complete failure by the offense that was the let down. The skilled players expected to score didn't get it done.

It wasn't bad penalties.
It wasn't the grinders.
It was the offensive players expected to score that failed to do their job.

A huge factor was the big ice surface. The coaches and players failed to adjust and couldn't create enough offense on euro ice. It's a lot easier to trap, and the big ice has always been difficult for Canada. The most international success has come on north american ice, and you can bet Canada will be eager to seek retribution for this failure during the next olympics.

Rabid Ranger

02-22-2006, 05:50 PM

What went wrong is this year's tournament favored the European approach to the game, and the teams who could play that way advanced while the teams that couldn't were left behind. Both the U.S. and Canada were built to win the Stanley Cup, not the Olympics, and both fell short. I'll have to admit though, that I'm pretty shocked by how Canada was shut out THREE TIMES. I didn't see that coming at all.

Big Mama*

02-22-2006, 05:52 PM

On paper, the players were plenty good enough, the GM was plenty good enough, the coaching staff was plenty good enough.

But the other teams played like the crests on their chests mattered to them. .

Sad to say but Team Canada didn't play for the crest on the front. All the other teams played with the passion for their crests. Leadership was needed and absent.

tangible_faith

02-22-2006, 05:53 PM

You really have to question why some guys like Staal, Crosby, etc. were not on the team, while guys like Bertuzzi were.

playoffs.
IS that really going to make much of a difference. Bertuzzi played better than guys like Sakic and Nash.

Schenn02

02-22-2006, 05:54 PM

Look I am not a Bertuzzi apologist nor a fan. But to heap all the blame on him. Sorry its just flat out wrong. Where was Sakic, Iginla, Nash, Heatly etc. etc.
I think Nash to more dumb penalties than anybody :dunno:

For gods sake we didn't score in 50% of our games! 3 Shutouts.

I love Gretzky, but as much praise as he got for Salt Lake. He should be taking some heat for this.

Props to Russia They were the better team. Good luck against Finland :clap:

Well, if he didn't take a boneheaded penalty, Ovechkin probably would not have scored. That penalty was unneeded and that was the GWG so thats why I placed all the blame on him (for this game). I thought Bertuzzi shouldn't have been on this team, whatever, its done so theres not more to be said. I'm not pointing fingers at you here but its just like how everybody places the blame on McCabe, taking dumbass penalties, coughing up the puck, whatever. I swear if it were him in todays game, the whole board would be after him instead of giving multiple reasons. (I'm not a McCabe fan or hater either but just pointing that out). Pronger also took a dumb penalty, although if he didn't, it would have been an EN goal. Canada was finished after Ovechkin scored, I could have felt it then. The whole team deserves the blame, if they played well in the preliminary, they could have faced a "weaker" opponent, if they SCORED, they wouldn't be gone. Oh well, I am rooting for Sweden and Finland now. The better team won and that was Russia. I've said enough. Go Finland/Sweden!

tangible_faith

02-22-2006, 05:54 PM

Canadas style is not winning the game this year. It is the finesse teams. Canada cycled the puck way to much.

bert

02-22-2006, 05:55 PM

It starts at the top the wrong team (coachs and players) was picked by the wrong people it appears. I just dont know why they would name Bertuzzi to this team with all of the controversy surrounding him. Its not like he was setting the world on fire when the team was named.

Coaching Prolblems.

Quinn just couldnt make a decision that helped this team once they were ever in trouble.

I dont understand why Quinn benches Nash when the team cant score, let the horse run.

With the amount of talent this team has Quinn wants these creative players to all play dump and chase? Ok Pat. They dont play that style on there respective teams play them to there strengths. Now im not saying all players should have played this style Smyth, Doan, Draper etc should dump and chase thats fine but not every line.

The D zone system they were using sucked. Not aggressive enough no turnovers no transistion game.

Pronger has very little offensive talent yet he was used in all offensive situations including the last minute when the team is down.

I understand why Draper was on the team. I can understand that school of thought. He is here to be a checker right? Then why is he used in a scoring roll?

Player Selection

Tanguay has outscored Bertuzzi all year and has great chemistry with Sakic why isnt he on the team? How can you make that kindof decision.

Doan strait up shouldnt have been on the team he has had a terrible season. That is all Wayne we know where to throw the blame there.

Erik Staal has arguably been the mvp of the nhl why isnt he on the team? This is a no brainer to me.

It looked to me like there wasnt much passion in the team. Only a few forwards were really working hard and forchecking. The D zone coverage was not nearly aggresive enough on the puck. A true lack of motivation from alot of players on this team. Is there something going on that we dont know about?

Redden is getting way to much criticism on here, he was one of the only defenseman that managed to move the puck. Foote did not provide any support or defensive switches in the D zone. Foote looks like he has lost a step too. Im not saying Wade was great which he clearly wasnt but he wasnt that bad.

I keep reading about how Regher was so good. Well im going to dissagree he couldnt manage to make any defensive zone escapes or any passes at all. I also didnt see him crushing anyone like he usually does very underwhelming play from him.

The good Bouwmeester was good, Blake was great. The rest of the D could defenitely have played better. McCabe was very good against Russia. He deserved to be on the team from the start and he proved it when the chips were down, again.

Richards was good, so were St Louis Lecavalier and Smyth. Heatley was very dangerous against Russia.

Thornton is the biggest choker in the league. I honestly think they need to use the guy in a 4th line grinding role so he doesnt think that he is a go to guy maybe he will do something out there.

NJ_Devil_Boy

02-22-2006, 05:55 PM

Hmmm...

- can't score
- can't hit
- can't play 60 mins
- defensive breakdowns galore
- can take the dumb penalties
- terrible special teams
- banking on Brodeur FTW

It was like watching the Devils out there wearing a different jersey. This team never got it going and it's pretty disappointing.

Note: Some thought goaltending would be the weakest link on Team Canada... :biglaugh: :shakehead

Brodeur :bow: :bow: :bow:

SensGod

02-22-2006, 05:57 PM

bertuzzi and his dumb penalty started it off

pronger sucks

From where I sit...those two were the biggest culprits. Not just today, but throughout the olympics.

McCabe, Redden, Iginla and Smyth aren't far behind.

Quite frankly...this mens' team were an embarasment to the jerseys they wore.

Shut out in 3 games...give me a break. Did these guys think that the opposition was just going to lay down because their were Canadian?

Gutless & Heartless...it was like watching the Sens in the playoffs.

glue

02-22-2006, 05:57 PM

After a year like this..Its very hard for me to believe that Canada shouldn't almost completely change the way they pick their next olympic team including their coaching staff..In future I hope Canada picks a combination of guys with the following:
1. Who are actually having excellent seasons
2. Guys with passion & leadership (Sakic, Brodeur & Doan aren't enough)
3. Guys with speed

tangible_faith

02-22-2006, 05:58 PM

Richards virtually had an open net in the last minute or two and elected to pass. Did anyone else see that? That could have tied the game

Air

02-22-2006, 06:00 PM

I am embarrassed to be a Canadian.

If you've been basing your own Canadian identity in domination in hockey, does that mean Canada failed to exist as a country in 1998, existed again in 2002, and has just magically poofed out of existence a few hours ago? Hockey is and will always be Canada's form of expression -- don't confuse what our athletes do in a tournament that happens every 4 years to what will always (well ... relatively) be.

While this does provide more fodder for those who say that Canada, playing outside of North America, doesn't have the right motivation/oomph to gel together as a team, I don't think this is anything to get extremely upset about. I think as fans, we were getting arrogant and complacent with the rush of medals and tournaments we'd been winning since 2002. A stinging loss like this will have implications for our next Olympic team ... and that team probably (hopefully) won't make the same mistakes. Then again, maybe the changes we make based on this tournament won't help. That's life.

If they fail to bring it in Vancouver 2010, though, that's another story.

Fripp

02-22-2006, 06:00 PM

Coaching. You can't play conservative for 55 mins and expect to just turn it on for a goal.

tangible_faith

02-22-2006, 06:01 PM

The guy that said they were embarassed to be Canadian should be deported to Kingston, Jamaica or or Baghdad... Then see how embarrased he is.
He is the only reason he should be embarrased to be Canadian

Dr Quincy

02-22-2006, 06:02 PM

Discipline.
Not shooting.
Passing too much.
Horrid breakouts.
Lack of Physical play.

Take a pick.

Sounds like a good description of the US's play (absent Erik Cole and Chris Drury)

bert

02-22-2006, 06:04 PM

Gutless & Heartless...it was like watching the Sens in the playoffs.

Oh it was all to familiar being a sens fan but instead of choking against just the leafs this team canada managed to do it against. Russia, Finland, Switzerland and to an extent the Czechs (brodeur won that game)

pox

02-22-2006, 06:04 PM

I think they missed a spark line, a line of young talent to spark the rest of the team

lennie

02-22-2006, 06:05 PM

Beukeboom Fan

02-22-2006, 06:05 PM

Couple of thoughts:

1) Anytime your best players don't step up - you're not likely to win against a quality opponent. Canada's best players (except Brodeur) didn't show up.
2) I find it ironic that the guys that played the best for Canada are likely the guys that would be replaced (Staal, Spezza, Crosby replacing Smyth, Doan, etc).
3) Quinn doesn't have a reputation as being a great "tactical" coach, and I think this really hurt Canada. Other teams played a much more defensive style, and they stifled the teams that tried to open it up (Canada & USA).
4) I think that the NHL expects too much from the players. I don't think it's shocking that 2 teams entirely made up of NHL'ers played poorly. The NHL squeezes the schedule WAY too much this year, and I think that guys just couldn't keep it together.
5) I think that Team Canada had a total of 1 practice, before a long *** flight and then played 6 games in 8 days. That's just a crazy flipping schedule.

Stephen

02-22-2006, 06:08 PM

I think Canada's terrible performance all boils down to a lack of chemistry, which can be explained by poor coaching and poor roster building.

Team Canada looked so disorganized out there, and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with Quinn's terrible unstructured program. Seriously, I'm very familiar with this kind of garbage hockey, since I watch the Toronto Maple Leafs. All the passes were off, the shot selection by players was poor, people were bobbling the puck everywhere, the defensemen made a ton of miscues. The offense was characteristically impotent. On the Ovechkin goal, Chris Pronger even managed to look like Aki friggin' Berg.

Beyond the crap coaching behind Team Canada, I have to say that Gretzky and co.'s construction of this team was fundamentally crap in retrospect. All of our big guns were terrible this tournament, and having role players on the roster when other teams are loading up with all-star talent is just not going to work out well for you. How the hell were Draper, Doan, Bertuzzi, Smyth going to compete with the likes of Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Kovalev on international ice? Blake looked like a dinosaur and Pronger looked slow and stupid. McCabe was crap too. Next time around, we're going to need speedier skilled players up front with a mobile defense on the back end. We definitely need more redundancy on the scoring lines in case the big scorers faulter like they did.

sharkpei

02-22-2006, 06:09 PM

Cheechoo would have been good.

nyrmessier011

02-22-2006, 06:13 PM

I have nothing against Canada, it's the birthplace of my favorite game, but they played arrogant hockey. Completely arrogant and undisciplined hockey. Atleast a lot of NHLers will be back resting up for the stretch of the more important NHL.

UnderratedBrooks44

02-22-2006, 06:13 PM

callighenfan

02-22-2006, 06:13 PM

From where I sit...those two were the biggest culprits. Not just today, but throughout the olympics.

McCabe, Redden, Iginla and Smyth aren't far behind.

I cop to being an Oiler fan, but I think you'd have to be crazy to hang goat horns on Smyth. He was easily one of the top five players on the Canadian team. He drew a ridiculous number of penalties (including a goalie-interference call in today's game), he was one of the only guys to park himself in front of the net on a consistent basis, he sparked Lecavalier and St. Louis once they were matched together, he was a top-four guy on the penalty kill, and most importantly, he seemed like the only guy who was even trying for much of the round-robin.

To balance out my Oiler bias, there's no question Pronger was one of the five worst players out there.

4th_Liner

02-22-2006, 06:17 PM

wade redden..

this guy's the typical disappearing magician in crucial times.. he'll never ever become an impact player in playoffs.. ever..

Stephen

02-22-2006, 06:19 PM

Hedberg

02-22-2006, 06:20 PM

Canada's problem wasn't it's players, but it's systems. The European teams all had systems's and won with arguably less talent. Quinn was clueless. His icetime distrubition was horrible and he just let the players play too individualy.

Other thoughts:
McCabe, Bertuzzi, and Thornton were terrible
Regehr and Iginla were bad
I wouldn't even know Wade Redden was on Team Canada
St. Louis and Lecavalier were the best forwards for Team Canada offensively, as they made some nice plays.

Phanuthier*

02-22-2006, 06:21 PM

Sutter for coach in 2010. Darryl, Brent, doesn't matter which. Hell, even one of their sisters would be preferable to this.
You wouldn't like Sutter as a head coach. Anyone remember the heat Brent took for his picks for both 2005 (ie. leaving off Picard, Fehr) and 2006 (apperently, no offensive talent).

If Sutter picked a team, you'd probably see Jarrett Stoll, Ethan Moreau, Stephane Yelle, Daymond Langkow, Matt Cooke on the team (to name a few). Not the Spezza's or Crosby's.

thebodyczech

02-22-2006, 06:23 PM

Canada was guilty of a fundamental mistake: playing defense first. That may work for a while, but we should never forget that, in hockey or otherwise, the best defense is a good offense. The Russians were an equal match for the Canadians in terms of skill. But the Russians had three attributes that the Canadians lacked (1) opportunism, (2) aggressiveness and (3) consistency. And that made all the difference.

UnderratedBrooks44

02-22-2006, 06:23 PM

Well said.
Anybody who follows hockey enough can put a Canadian team together. My 12 year old next door neighbour could have put a team together. Really, is the playing of Spezza or Crosby going to win you games over playing Bertuzzi Draper etc. It might, but a player is not going to win a tournament single handedly.
They just didn't gel. I don't think that it was coached to well either.

CANADA still is the best hocky country. Just because you don't win gold doesn't mean you are no the best. It means you were not the best team at the tournament. Canada could put two more teams in that could have won gold. If Canada was allowed to put in three teams they could sweep the medals. How many countries can put in more than one team? Why can't we put in more than one team? It happens in other sports. There are lots of countries that have more than one athlete participating in the same sports. Canada had two people competeing for a speed skating medal today and won gold and silver. Why can't it be done for hockey? Instead you have an Italian team that is basically Canadian players living in Italy. Germany, Latvia, Kazaakastan( which I thought was an area of Pakistan that downloaded music) and ths Swiss(althouhg they did play well)

Three teams? How about figuring out how the first one's going to score? Don't hate on the Swiss THEY deserved to qualify. Also, I hate to break it to you but the Olympics are to showcase the world's BEST athletes, at least for the next four years so I'm afraid you will have to sit with that.

I'm sorry I'm American so I'm obviously not comparing Olympic success (I don't even like or watch Team USA) but this is a biproduct of the arrogant sense of entitlement that some Canadians have when it comes to hockey.

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 06:27 PM

I am going to pipe in over some of the Garbage I have already heard

Pronger - I love how this guy is getting the blame especially on the first goal, tell me how is that his fault, when he went to pass it Boumester was there and was supose to get that pass then after that it was Doan who shoved it back toward the net where all the problems started. As well besides a few bad penalties tell me where has he been soo much worse then guys like Regher and Foote who were nonexistant

Bertuzzi - I can now go back to hating the 'goon but over the tournament he PROVED WHY HE SHOULD BE THERE as he was ONE OF THE ONLY GUYS who showed up each game and hit players - tell me who else went out there and hit ? it is a sad state when we got outhit by the Russians

Doan and Smyth - I still can't believe the garbage people are saying about how these guys should not be out there. Smyth was our best player this Olympics and Doan was a great penalty killer as was Draper. And gues what all you armchair GM fools you need those type of players TO WIN

People spout off about experience and Malkin and Ovchenkin being there, well maybe you guys should get your facts straight as BOTH OF THEM HAVE PLAYED IN MAJOR INTERNATIONAL MENS TOURNAMENTS !

Tell me where was Sakic and Iginla this year as well ? For everyone talking about Nash and Bertuzzi and Thornton being ghosts where were these two guys ?

Then lets look at some of the picks that you so called experts think should have been out there - guys like Crosby, Staal, Spezza would have helped us in which way, what because they can score in the NHL they must have been able to score here right ? especially seeing how they have never played in an event like this and the fact the BETTER PLAYERS then them could not do it either. Then for the defense you all talk about Phaneuf but tell me what did he do in the 04 WJC when it was ON BIG ICE. Add to that that he still gets beat by the best players in the NHL on smaller ice what would happen here ? Oh magically he will improve his skating by boarding an airplane. As well how many times would he look for that big hit and get made to look like a fool out there ?

Finally I love how all you bash Gretzky saying you could have done a better job blah blah blah, just shut your mouths because I really find it hard to believe that a guy who made his career using his head and build the 2002 team to win gold (who was not supose to win because it was the US' to take) and the 2004 team (who was not supose to win because it was too young) knows less than you. As well tell me how many teams give a total rehaul after winning a championship like you guys suggest. I mean did the Oilers, Devils, Islanders, Red WIngs all overhaul their staff - no so give your heads a shake.

02-22-2006, 06:27 PM

As someone else pointed out already, this team was filled with guys who had great seasons 2 years ago but are struggling now, while guys like Staal (probably the best Canadian forward alive right now) are sitting at home.

Losing Niedermayer and Jovanovski, arguably the team's two best outlet passers, crippled our transition game and made the pedestrian contribution of our forwards that much worse. Plus Pronger was injured and crap.

Selection process wasn't great, and the coaches weren't able to find anything that worked. System? What system?

tml_4ever

02-22-2006, 06:28 PM

No Chemistry = EVERYTHING GOES WRONG

mattihp

02-22-2006, 06:30 PM

Dedication and attitude. Last olympics when the games were in the states, both transatlantic teams were hyped about it... Now they seem to see it as a break from NHL play.

CornKicker

02-22-2006, 06:31 PM

2010 will need more Ryan Smyth types on the team to go with the skill players. He will be the captain in 2010 (i think any way). it is funny how 2 of the guys labelled as bubble players before the team was picked (Doan - Smyth) were canadas most consistant and played with heart. I feel bad for brodeur because, like always, he came to play when it mattered.

Where was Heatley? Iginla? Thornton?
these guys were suppossed to replace the heart guys like yzerman, shannahan, nolan. but they didn't

also thanks to Lecavalier and St Louis who also showed up today, now we know why you guys have stanley cup rings.

i don't think the problem was no crosbys, stall, etc. (actually i would want stall) but i think we needed that vet presence like a kariya or shanny or even Mario or Gretz on the bench. they seemed nervous and out of place they needed that calming vet presence.

one last thing, we really missed neidermeyer

Hedberg

02-22-2006, 06:31 PM

If Sutter picked a team, you'd probably see Jarrett Stoll, Ethan Moreau, Stephane Yelle, Daymond Langkow, Matt Cooke on the team (to name a few). Not the Spezza's or Crosby's.

Actually, I think a team of speedy, gritty guys would have done better at this tournament

donelikedinner

02-22-2006, 06:33 PM

Stephen

02-22-2006, 06:36 PM

mooseOAK

02-22-2006, 06:36 PM

I think Canada's terrible performance all boils down to a lack of chemistry, which can be explained by poor coaching and poor roster building.

Team Canada looked so disorganized out there, and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with Quinn's terrible unstructured program. Seriously, I'm very familiar with this kind of garbage hockey, since I watch the Toronto Maple Leafs. All the passes were off, the shot selection by players was poor, people were bobbling the puck everywhere, the defensemen made a ton of miscues. The offense was characteristically impotent. On the Ovechkin goal, Chris Pronger even managed to look like Aki friggin' Berg.
I don't get it, if the players can't execute fundamentals like passing, shooting, and defensive positioning all of which they should know how to do before the Olympics, being NHL players and all, how can a coaching system change that? Fact is, that the coaches were never given anything to work with. Not one player came out and became the go-to guy.

The team lost, everyone involved from management to players.

mattihp

02-22-2006, 06:37 PM

You wouldn't like Sutter as a head coach. Anyone remember the heat Brent took for his picks for both 2005 (ie. leaving off Picard, Fehr) and 2006 (apperently, no offensive talent).

If Sutter picked a team, you'd probably see Jarrett Stoll, Ethan Moreau, Stephane Yelle, Daymond Langkow, Matt Cooke on the team (to name a few). Not the Spezza's or Crosby's.

I can see it now ^^

Moreau - Langkow - Harvey
Cooke - Stoll - Horcoff
Leclerc - Yelle - Donovan
Cleary - Jason Williams - Neil

De Vries - Regehr
Smith - Staios
Matvichuk - White

:biglaugh:

Phanuthier*

02-22-2006, 06:37 PM

Actually, I think a team of speedy, gritty guys would have done better at this tournament
Oh, I do too, but I fear the HF wrath of "your an idiot, Flames fan thinks he knows everything after a cinderella run" :)

I made a slight comment about maybe I'd have Jarrett Stoll there over Kris Draper and got thourally ripped for that. That's the last of me making a comment like that.

Foamy

02-22-2006, 06:39 PM

Doan and Smyth - I still can't believe the garbage people are saying about how these guys should not be out there. Smyth was our best player this Olympics and Doan was a great penalty killer as was Draper. And gues what all you armchair GM fools you need those type of players TO WIN

Well said. I was very impressed with Smyth. And Doan...people criticizing him must not have watched the game today. He was just incredible on the penalty kill. You have to have guys like that on the team.

xilinx

02-22-2006, 06:41 PM

the most talented team in the world, shutout 11/12 periods. :confused:

that's either some awesome defense, or a major breakdown on our part.

there'll be years to come, i'm sure the canadian team will be on the ball in vancouver.

oil slick

02-22-2006, 06:41 PM

We need more Ryan Smyth attitudes on the team, but we need less Ryan Smyths. He might be working his tail off all game, but it's all negated by the superior skill of a team like Russia, which overwhelmed us with skill and hardwork.

He forced a great save in the second, and set up a St Louis break away in the 3rd... it seems that if all forwards performed like Smyth we would have had amazing scoring chances all night.

Pronger was crap.

Smyth was great.

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 06:42 PM

Oh, I do too, but I fear the HF wrath of "your an idiot, Flames fan thinks he knows everything after a cinderella run" :)

I made a slight comment about maybe I'd have Jarrett Stoll there over Kris Draper and got thourally ripped for that. That's the last of me making a comment like that.

So we throw out a team of Clutch and Grabbers (built like the Flames had in their cup run and even you can't deny that) and the refs will have a feild day calling penalties on us. I have no problem taking one line, which we arguably had with Smyth Draper and Doan but to build a team around that would be foolish.

Riddarn

02-22-2006, 06:44 PM

I think they simply went with the wrong kind of players to win a tournament on big ice with the new low tolerance refereeing. Alot of the players simply lacked the speed and intensity to be effective. It takes pretty much more skating and pure endurance conditioning to play a high intensity game on a 15 feet wider rink. The way the finns play is probably the best example of how big a difference the skating does. Not only are they quick, but they skate up and down like energizer bunnys. Few players on Team Canada besides Draper can do that.

Also, I think Pat Quinn is a coach that lives in the past, but thats more my Maple Leaf beef (because that's my NHL team and I hate to see them go downhill again..) and he had plenty of (smarter) backup coaches to help him out here. Still, it could have been an issue at some level.

Phanuthier*

02-22-2006, 06:45 PM

So we throw out a team of Clutch and Grabbers (built like the Flames had in their cup run and even you can't deny that) and the refs will have a feild day calling penalties on us. I have no problem taking one line, which we arguably had with Smyth Draper and Doan but to build a team around that would be foolish.
I dunno, Bertuzzi, Pronger, Nash, ect sure did alot of clutching and grabbing, so I don't think it could be any worse.

According to the collective HF intellect, they probably would have "got away with it"

Stephen

02-22-2006, 06:45 PM

I don't get it, if the players can't execute fundamentals like passing, shooting, and defensive positioning all of which they should know how to do before the Olympics, being NHL players and all, how can a coaching system change that? Fact is, that the coaches were never given anything to work with. Not one player came out and became the go-to guy.

The team lost, everyone involved from management to players.

Of course players know how to pass and shoot and position themselves, but when they're on a new team, they should given a set of instructions and expectations by the coaching staff as to what the hell they should be doing. Do you ever find yourself working for some idiot boss who gives crap instructions and the work suffers? Same thing applies here. The statement that "the coaches were never given anything to work with" is an absolute joke. They took most of Canada's best, and they were able to mold a loser out of them. Incredible.

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 06:45 PM

Pronger was crap.

.

See comments like this make me laugh - he was our second best D man out there and that is sad since this was definatly not his best tournament. Humor me how was he crap ? Because some let Selenne get a free pass to the net in the Finland game or was it because Boumester looked like he was going to accept the pass and help Pronger out, when two guys were on him, only to turn away from it or is it because Doan shovelled it back toward the net ?

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 06:46 PM

I dunno, Bertuzzi, Pronger, Nash, ect sure did alot of clutching and grabbing, so I don't think it could be any worse.

According to the collective HF intellect, they probably would have "got away with it"

Umm i really don't know where they got away with it as if there was one team that did it was Finland when we played them

oil slick

02-22-2006, 06:47 PM

See comments like this make me laugh - he was our second best D man out there and that is sad since this was definatly not his best tournament. Humor me how was he crap ? Because some let Selenne get a free pass to the net in the Finland game or was it because Boumester looked like he was going to accept the pass and help Pronger out, when two guys were on him, only to turn away from it or is it because Doan shovelled it back toward the net ?

Those penalties were bad... One of the reason I think Prongers play on the oilers this year has been so fantastic is the low penalty minutes... I just don't think you can take so many penalties and not have your play questioned.

P.S. Smyth was great.

if-away

02-22-2006, 06:49 PM

I can see it now ^^

Moreau - Langkow - Harvey
Cooke - Stoll - Horcoff
Leclerc - Yelle - Donovan
Cleary - Jason Williams - Neil

De Vries - Regehr
Smith - Staios
Matvichuk - White

:biglaugh:

And you know what's funny? This team would probably play better than what we had this year.

mooseOAK

02-22-2006, 06:52 PM

Of course players know how to pass and shoot and position themselves, but when they're on a new team, they should given a set of instructions and expectations by the coaching staff as to what the hell they should be doing. Do you ever find yourself working for some idiot boss who gives crap instructions and the work suffers? Same thing applies here. The statement that "the coaches were never given anything to work with" is an absolute joke. They took most of Canada's best, and they were able to mold a loser out of them. Incredible.
Name me one "star" that played close to his ability besides Brodeur. That is what I mean by having nothing to work with.

The problem with your analogy is that the "idiot boss" is the highest paid. We all know who the highest paid people on the Olympic team were, and it certainly is not the coaching staff.

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 06:54 PM

Those penalties were bad... One of the reason I think Prongers play on the oilers this year has been so fantastic is the low penalty minutes... I just don't think you can take so many penalties and not have your play questioned.

P.S. Smyth was great.

Well in todays game both of his penalties were nowhere near bad as one was boarderline slash (I thought that if you slash someone your stick actually has to make a slashing motion which his didn't) and quite honestly was a decent play to preven the guy from taking the shot. The second one prevented a goal - plain and simple, and before some of you sit there and say it was his fault - yes the pass was not great but tell me where is his forwards ? to provide an lane to pass to, if he has to make that pass with all the open ice there was then guess what some forward screwed that whole breakout up

Bruwinz37

02-22-2006, 06:59 PM

Discipline.
Not shooting.
Passing too much.
Horrid breakouts.
Lack of Physical play.

Take a pick.

Hey...its not all Joe's fault!

Oh...you mean the whole team... :biglaugh:

I kid..

oil slick

02-22-2006, 07:01 PM

Well in todays game both of his penalties were nowhere near bad as one was boarderline slash (I thought that if you slash someone your stick actually has to make a slashing motion which his didn't) and quite honestly was a decent play to preven the guy from taking the shot. The second one prevented a goal - plain and simple, and before some of you sit there and say it was his fault - yes the pass was not great but tell me where is his forwards ? to provide an lane to pass to, if he has to make that pass with all the open ice there was then guess what some forward screwed that whole breakout up

Well first of all - he's taken bad penalties throughout the tourney... and secondly, I think one can explain away most penalties by saying they were borderline... but at the end of the day he took the penalties. He was also beaten a fair amount along the boards through the tournament.

And I'm one of the biggest Pronger homers around. He's been fantastic this year... just not this week IMO.

ColinM

02-22-2006, 07:04 PM

I think we could just chalk this up to bad puck luck. I thought Canada had stretchs of solid play against Russia and Switzerland but at the end of the day couldn't put the puck in the net. Take away a few quick whistles or a few inches and we could be talking about a different outcome.

Canada will still win some tournaments in the future and they will suffer some disapointing set backs. That's just the way international hockey is now. Five different nations won hockey medals between Nagano and Salt Lake City. Even the 1998 Gold medal champions failed to make the semi-finals in 2002. Life will go on.

The_Eck

02-22-2006, 07:04 PM

It's simple. Todd the Thug brings bad Karma.

sehnsucht

02-22-2006, 07:04 PM

the coaching takes the lion's share of the blame. Sure, questionable picks, but this was still the most talented team in the tournament. Losing Nieds is no excuse, every team lost key players. But the coaching was just....unbelievable. No system, and when there were traces of one, it was an NHL dump and chase system that completely misused a bunch of talented players and was unsuitable for the bigger ice. When the team isn't scoring and the PP isn't working, what do you do? Continue having an injured Pronger and Richards on the point...orrr....stick Iginla and McCabe on the point with Smyth in front. Why the hell was Pronger even playing? He's injured and playing no-where near as effective as he can be and still is playing top 2 minutes. Stick Boyle in for a legitimately injured guy. Just terrible, terrible coaching. No motivation, no control over the team, no system, and just a series of bad choices after bad choices.

Still, the team had a chance at winning (if only that ref wasn't so quick to the whistle), even though no bounces went their way and the "team" had no chemistry, little heart, and brutal discipline. Most importantly, Russia was excellent. Total props to them.

The only good result from this is that Gretzky, Lowe, Tambellini, and Quinn should never be seen near Hockey Canada again. If they are, Canada deserves to lose.

Avery4Byng

02-22-2006, 07:06 PM

It's simple. Todd the Thug brings bad Karma.
LOL, that is too easy of a scapegoat, we can do better than that.

donelikedinner

02-22-2006, 07:08 PM

It's simple. Todd the Thug brings bad Karma.

or was it Jose's bad hair karma? :biglaugh:

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 07:10 PM

Well first of all - he's taken bad penalties throughout the tourney... and secondly, I think one can explain away most penalties by saying they were borderline... but at the end of the day he took the penalties. He was also beaten a fair amount along the boards through the tournament.

And I'm one of the biggest Pronger homers around. He's been fantastic this year... just not this week IMO.

Did I say he was fantastic no but to sit there and listen to the garbage that it was his fault when he was the second best d man out there and that must be saying alot as if he was crap then what the **** was the rest of the d. As well no those that were called today one should not have been called at all and it neither fit the billing of a slash or a hook and like I said before what is he supose to let the guy go in on and empty net breakway - he had to take that one to atleast give us a chance to still win.

As well to all the experts to say he was beaten on the boards how easy is it for a six foot six guy to pin someone properly without taking a penalty ? meaning not using your hands to hug him but to use the one knee and stick/hand to the back - so it is not as easy as some of you experts think it is.

zarathustra1900

02-22-2006, 07:11 PM

It's very easy to hand out blame, but as in most cases, it's usually a combination of several events that lead to something like this. Who could have predicted that Gerber/Aebischer, and not Hasek/Vokoun, would be the goaltending tandem of the tournament?

I don't believe for a second it's the players selected. There was enough talent to win. Canada has won with a similiar roster makeup before.

I don't know if what happened was caused by a lapse in coaching. The special teams were horrible, but Canada wasn't the only team that they were horrible for. The indifferent effort at times was mind-boggling. This is the last team that I thought would play with a lack of urgency when a game was on the line.

Well said. I agree.

I thought it was truly weird how they seemed to be lost...I mean as if they didn't knwo what to do with the puck sometimes?!

Many a time they were behind the net with it and , just waited, and waited...

Passing on the point back and forth in front of the net on the blue line....seemingly without a clue or strategy?!?

They must have truly felt intimidated by Russia, and pressured severely.

Russia made twice the shots on goal as Canada at the 3rd period...Russians completely controlled them throughout the 3rd.

What was also strange is how a seeming, I don't know, for lack of better term, arrogance or lack of team chemistry/planning would casue a player to go it alone as if they had not a clue ...and then chose to shoot as if a last resort idea!!!

Weird. It was weird.

backcheck

02-22-2006, 07:12 PM

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 07:13 PM

backcheck

02-22-2006, 07:13 PM

Give me a break - Coaching ????

Its a 2 week tournament .

Poor choices by Gretzky and freinds ( as they say )

Bloggins

02-22-2006, 07:13 PM

Chemistry. Nuff said.

Phanuthier*

02-22-2006, 07:17 PM

You have no clue with comments like the Gretzky comment, and if Pronger played so bad then what do you call Iginla's "performance" and then you want to stick him out on the point - yeah not to hypocritical
Ok. I guess you're the designated Pronger apologist of the board.

God Bless Canada

02-22-2006, 07:19 PM

What went wrong? Just about everything. Outside of goaltending, I can't think of anything that went right.

I hesitate to call this "a team," because we never saw a consistent team concept in this tournament. This is the most talented collection of forward talent we've sent to an international tournament in the last 15-20 years. Compare this team with 2002. 2002 had two scoring lines. That's it. But by the time the medal round rolled around, they were all on the same page, and fulfilling their role. Didn't happen this time. Don't care how much talent you have, if you don't have a team concept, you'll never go anywhere.

The coaches never did enough to get this team to gel. Maybe the schedule put them in a position that they couldn't gel, with only one practice in Turin before the tournament started, and only two days off. But none of these coaches should be back in 2010.

There are so many variables associated with winning. Canada had none of these. The heart, intensity, drive and hunger weren't there. That killer instinct was gone. Where was the physical play? Where was the forecheck? You think Spezza, Staal and Crosby changes any of this? They don't. Nothing short of a major overhaul changes what happened in the last five days. Where was the leadership? When Gagne has an A, on essentially a dream team, that's start of the problem.

People say we were a little heavy on those who got the job done in the past. The Finns have 18 guys back from the World Cup team. They're thriving with those who have thrived in the past. And they're without Kiprusoff and Ruuttu, who were key guys in the World Cup. What's the difference? Execution. Team play. Versatility. An ability to everything it takes to win. We didn't have those. That's why we're done.

And here's the kicker. Canada has won the two other primary tournaments it entered this year. Why? Team play. Canada iced maybe it's most talented women's team ever. They outscored their opponents 46-2. Why? Team play. Our junior team won that tournament not based on high-end skill, but on coaching, goaltending, an unwavering commitment to the system, and team play. I said after the WJC that our men's Olympic team should take note of what our junior team did and how they won. I had no idea how right I was.

sehnsucht

02-22-2006, 07:21 PM

Coaching makes all the difference. Look at Brent Sutter and his juniors. Maligned both years for picking questionable teams, but he picked actual teams with chemistry that played their hearts out. Same thing with Darryl. Find a guy who'll pick a team based on chemistry and heart and a coaching staff that can motivate that team, as well as coaching on international ice.

Sheer skill, power, and points in the NHL arn't everything. Just look at Finland.

ps- I've got nothing against Pronger. It's not his fault that he's playing a tonne of minutes while injured. He's played great with the Oilers this season but had completely lost a step in this tournament. Slow, taking bad penalties, and giving up pucks at critical times. I'd blame Quinn for playing Pronger far more than I'd blame Pronger for playing weak.

You have no clue with comments like the Gretzky comment, and if Pronger played so bad then what do you call Iginla's "performance" and then you want to stick him out on the point - yeah not to hypocritical

I don't want to see him near international ice ever again. Being a superstar, top player, and ambassador for the game doesn't mean you automatically can GM a squad in an olympic tournament like it's some give-in of a gift. That, and the nepotism, got me. Iginla played like he has all season with the Flames. Excellent in the first and last games and pisspoor in every game in between. No heart and hussle with occasional flashes of brilliance.

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 07:22 PM

Ok. I guess you're the designated Pronger apologist of the board.

Yeah and I guess you are one of the many that think they are better then Gretzky right ? As well all of this is Pronger fault right ? I mean you have all the answers don't you ? Tell me if Pronger played like crap as some of these fools say then what did Iginla play like ? and why if you were to take Pronger off the point would Iginla, honestly did he even dress - he was that invisible, warrent that position then ? how about you sit there and address the comments intead of spouting of some nonsense remark

helicecopter

02-22-2006, 07:26 PM

The team selected simply couldn't/didn't skate enough for the big ice.

They were for example completely outskated by the Finns until they started to trap.

Today Russia had a wrong approach to the game imo, playing too controlled, tight, defensive, tactic hockey instead of going out to outskate the Canadians with their speed and that gave a real good chance to team Canada despite its flaws were there today again, even if in a better effort.

sehnsucht

02-22-2006, 07:29 PM

I disagree that they're not fast enough. Any one of the Canadian forwards is as fast as necessary, it was just that the Euro teams look a lot faster because they actually skate and pass with the puck up the middle, instead of dumping it in, trying to play like today's Calgary Flames and ending up like the 2001 Flames, and wasting all their skill on play that simply doesn't work on international ice. This team was much more skilled than in 2002, but was completely misused, got no bounces, and lost all will to play.

bert

02-22-2006, 07:30 PM

LOL, that is too easy of a scapegoat, we can do better than that.

Really because I think it has alot to do with it. The minute he was picked they were doomed. I didnt believe it until they scored on the penalty he took. Many people told me that it was bad karma and I didnt believe. Well it certainly was in the end wasnt it.

People keep asking why Pronger is not only at fault for the first goal but the penalty he took on the second goal too? What he could have done differently? How about not fire it into Kovalev's skates when he is right infront of you. But he doesnt deserve all the blame Quinn put him out there to begin with.

Phanuthier*

02-22-2006, 07:34 PM

Yeah and I guess you are one of the many that think they are better then Gretzky right ? As well all of this is Pronger fault right ? I mean you have all the answers don't you ? Tell me if Pronger played like crap as some of these fools say then what did Iginla play like ? and why if you were to take Pronger off the point would Iginla, honestly did he even dress - he was that invisible, warrent that position then ? how about you sit there and address the comments intead of spouting of some nonsense remark
Cute rant.

Go through my posts if you want.

Typical HF attempt to deflect blame. I said Iginla sucked, we got that covered. Pronger was terrible too, its just that your in denial and I'm not.

Psycho Papa Joe

02-22-2006, 07:36 PM

Going into the tournament I wasn't happy with a number of the selections. I thought younger and speedier talent should have been given a longer look and the power aspect of the team was more suited to NHL hockey than to International hockey on the big ice.But looking how this tournament went down, and the general malaise from almost the entire roster, I don't think the 4 or 5 changes I would have proposed would have made much of a difference. They may have scored a few more goals, and maybe have gotten into the medal round, but I just don't think the attitude was right to have a gold medal run, regardless if we brought Phaneuf, Spezza, Stall ect. The other teams just had more heart than Canada this time around.

Congrats to the 4 finalists. They all deserve full credit for what they have accomplished thus far.:clap:

sehnsucht

02-22-2006, 07:38 PM

I don't even want to imagine what Quinn would have done to Phaneuf or Staal.

The team had young stars- Nash, J-Bo, etc. They didn't change anything.

Team_Spirit

02-22-2006, 07:40 PM

Trap or Die

helicecopter

02-22-2006, 07:40 PM

I disagree that they're not fast enough.Several players on this team were not fast skaters. Even more, they were not skating enough.

One thing is possessing acceleration, one thing is being able to keep on skating (effortless, or not).. Sakic for example has great acceleration but wasn't skating enough along this tourney, despite his abilities.. maybe several Canadians where struggling with their aerobic condition?

I don't know, but i noticed two things: they should have selected more great skaters and the good skaters on the teams weren't skating as hard as they should have..

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 07:41 PM

People keep asking why Pronger is not only at fault for the first goal but the penalty he took on the second goal too? What he could have done differently? How about not fire it into Kovalev's skates when he is right infront of you.

Wow that is amazing insight, how about you address the fact why did he have to go through Kovalevs skates ? would it because that is the only way he could get the puck to the forward and that is how their break out is designed. And before those of you sit there and say he could have passed it to Blake again well by the time he gets his stick going to make that pass that second Russian is right there to knock it off of his stick, as well the way it looked like the Russians were setting up they needed to go to that one side (the near side to the camera) to get it into their zone. That play was a prime example of our biggest problem we decied to get on the otherside of centre BEFORE the puck leaves our zone. Our forwards did a piss poor job of comming down low into our zone to get those passes and as a result ALL OF OUR D MEN had to make huge passes

Mess

02-22-2006, 07:45 PM

Of course players know how to pass and shoot and position themselves, but when they're on a new team, they should given a set of instructions and expectations by the coaching staff as to what the hell they should be doing. Do you ever find yourself working for some idiot boss who gives crap instructions and the work suffers? Same thing applies here. The statement that "the coaches were never given anything to work with" is an absolute joke. They took most of Canada's best, and they were able to mold a loser out of them. Incredible.

It proves that you can't just select a team of All-Stars and dump them together and call them a team ..

You need leadership and direction in the locker room and behind the bench and you need to give them direction via a system with defined responsibilities for every single player within it.

A lot of thought of that better have gone into that before you ever hit the ice in Italy, begining with the selection process itself..

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 07:45 PM

Cute rant.

Go through my posts if you want.

Typical HF attempt to deflect blame. I said Iginla sucked, we got that covered. Pronger was terrible too, its just that your in denial and I'm not.

Where do I begin

you spouted off on me defending Pronger in some other guys argument on why Iginla should be in a certain spot because Pronger has played bad, All I said was he is being hypocritical because if Pronger played bad in that spot why should Iginla be there as he played WORSE than Pronger.

Maybe you should keep you mouth shut if you have nothing to add to what I was asking him but some stupid comment like whatever it was you said.

Phanuthier*

02-22-2006, 07:47 PM

therealdeal

02-22-2006, 07:55 PM

There was no team chemistry, nothing to rally behind, I didn't even see Canada get in a scrum with anyone, Kasparitis takes out Gagne (with a clean hit, but still) and nothing happens, nobody gets mad, there was never any desperation throughout the whole tournament.

Stephen

02-22-2006, 07:55 PM

Name me one "star" that played close to his ability besides Brodeur. That is what I mean by having nothing to work with.

The problem with your analogy is that the "idiot boss" is the highest paid. We all know who the highest paid people on the Olympic team were, and it certainly is not the coaching staff.

It's not about the highest paid. It's about leadership from the above. If they're such a non factor in the performance of players, why are there coaching staffs at all? The players all sucked first and foremost, but don't you think a better coaching staff that a) motivated b) instructed c) prepared the players better would have made some difference? The players failed tactically. The coaching staff failed strategically.

Maybe the coaching staff would have had something to work with if they had done a more adequate job helping the team gel on and off the ice and implementing a coherent system of play instead of throwing random defensemen together, putting random forwards on the point for the powerplays, and motivating the players in general. Isn't one of Quinn's maxims of coaching something like 'the coach's responsibility is not to motivate players'? That's an embarassment.

Lessy

02-22-2006, 08:03 PM

This team needed to take a page out of Brent Sutter's World Junior playbook. The Canadian junior teams and the olympic team were complete opposites. The juniors did not have much talent and were given little chance at a gold medal but played hard every game and had a great defensive oriented system. The olympic team had all the talent in the world and a who's who of the NHL but could not put together the team concept of the game and the lines and system were not good at all.

You really can't criticize the selection of the team in my opinion. The goalies were undisputable, the defence, with the exception of Dion Phaneuf no one seemed to be questioning. And the forwards, Smyth and Doan and perhaps Bertuzzi were the only players that people were even questioning. The bubble guys of this team were ultimately Smyth, Bertuzzi, Doan, and Bouwmeester and I thought Smyth, Doan and Bouwmeester were outstanding all tournament long. Bertuzzi... well that was a different story :shakehead.

The Russians won the final fair and square, the officials were not all that bad, and you can't make excuses. I thought that 5-on-5 the game was extremely even but what can you do :dunno: . This Canadian team is gonna have a special, special team in 2010 even if that's what they were saying this year, in 2010 they will have an extremely strong team, and will hopefully be able to put it all together. Best of luck to the remaining countries in this tournament and hopefully it will be entertaining hockey.

Narnia

02-22-2006, 08:23 PM

Losing Niedermayer and Jovanovski, arguably the team's two best outlet passers, crippled our transition game and made the pedestrian contribution of our forwards that much worse. Plus Pronger was injured and crap.And that is why Pronger and Blake got overplayed. Under no circumstances should these two have played half the game when Team Canada had to play 6 games in 8 days. There was actually doubt that these two would be going to the Olympics. In 2010 Team Canada should only take players that are 100% healthy. If Canada has so much depth like they said, why did Pronger and Blake get overplayed?

Narnia

02-22-2006, 08:27 PM

The Fix:
1. Different coaches (no Quinn or Hitch) who can adapt to changes in play
2. Retire ALL the old horses (Marty too, gotta make a clean break) :eek:
3. Get McCabe off the ice :madfire:
4. Bring in the kids (Staal, Crosby, Phaneuf, etc.) :jump:
5. Trade Quinn & McUseless to Team Japan for a bowl of soup
6. Bring in the kids (Staal, Crosby, Phaneuf, etc.)
7. why was NOBODY taking the body? :madfire:
8. Bring in the kids (Staal, Crosby, Phaneuf, Carter, Richards, etc.)

9. Insist all players disclose all injuries prior to going over and replace them!

I'm not calling this loss the end of the world, its just a wakeup call for the next generation

PS, excellent game by the Russians. Kudos!I agree with 9. If they had done that this year, Pronger and Blake wouldn't have been there as it was clear these two weren't at 100%. Quinn overplaying these two knowing they're injured was a joke. These two play in the hardest division in the NHL and Quinn overplays them yet I'm not sure if McCabe played 5 mintues per game. Someone tell me how McCabe made the team.

gr8haluschak

02-22-2006, 08:31 PM

Haha ok

Iginla was invisible. No doubt about that.

Still, brutal play by a guy who's known for being head's up player. On top of the many bad cross checking penelties he took in the tournament.

Pronger was brutal, admit it. I'll admit Iginla was brutal, time to face the facts, Pronger made a terrible play when the game was on the line.

Again, cute rant.

Ok it is clear I am talking to a wall and I am not watsing any more time on someone who cannot read. Go back to any of my comments and tell me where I said Pronger played great, the most prairse i gave him was the fact that he was our second best d man, and guess what HE WAS. Honestly unless you have some form of schizophrenia then the orginal post that I was responding to the Pronger - Iginla comparsion has NOTHING to do with you so hit the bricks

Beukeboom Fan

02-22-2006, 08:35 PM

It proves that you can't just select a team of All-Stars and dump them together and call them a team ..

You need leadership and direction in the locker room and behind the bench and you need to give them direction via a system with defined responsibilities for every single player within it.

A lot of thought of that better have gone into that before you ever hit the ice in Italy, begining with the selection process itself..

The only thing thought - didn't Gretzky do that, and isn't that why he's taking heat?

Checking center/PK'er: Draper
PP Point man: McCabe
Physical presence: Smyth, Doan, Bertuzzi
Leadership: Sakic, Iginla, Blake, Foote

All of the people *****ing are talking about adding more skill (Spezza, Staal, etc), which just makes it that much more of an all-star team (w/ 7 centers playing BTW).

Maelmoor

02-22-2006, 08:41 PM

The defence were just clumsy and slow, sure thing guy like Boyle had been better, not saying that just cause im supporting Tampa. Then lot of players didn't produced as they should have done..

Hobofish

02-22-2006, 08:43 PM

The only thing thought - didn't Gretzky do that, and isn't that why he's taking heat?

Checking center/PK'er: Draper
PP Point man: McCabe
Physical presence: Smyth, Doan, Bertuzzi
Leadership: Sakic, Iginla, Blake, Foote

All of the people *****ing are talking about adding more skill (Spezza, Staal, etc), which just makes it that much more of an all-star team (w/ 7 centers playing BTW).

Checking, physical presence and leadership mean NOTHING when you get shut out. All these so called "heart" players didn't show up. Heatley was the best Canadian today against Russia.

Phanuthier*

02-22-2006, 08:51 PM

The defence were just clumsy and slow, sure thing guy like Boyle had been better, not saying that just cause im supporting Tampa.
Well Bouwmeester is suppposed to be the world's greatest skater, and there's been a couple times he got caught flat footed watching the other team get a fantastic chance.

Blades of Glory

02-22-2006, 08:55 PM

You can't really blame the defense, they still allowed only 11 goals in the entire tourney. The offense couldn't put the puck into the net, something that a team like Canada should do with ease.

The D could have played better without a doubt, but the offense was the downfall of this team. So was the chemistry.

mooseOAK

02-22-2006, 09:01 PM

It's not about the highest paid. It's about leadership from the above. If they're such a non factor in the performance of players, why are there coaching staffs at all? The players all sucked first and foremost, but don't you think a better coaching staff that a) motivated b) instructed c) prepared the players better would have made some difference? The players failed tactically. The coaching staff failed strategically.

Maybe the coaching staff would have had something to work with if they had done a more adequate job helping the team gel on and off the ice and implementing a coherent system of play instead of throwing random defensemen together, putting random forwards on the point for the powerplays, and motivating the players in general. Isn't one of Quinn's maxims of coaching something like 'the coach's responsibility is not to motivate players'? That's an embarassment.
I have never seen Quinn's maxims of coaching published so I don't know. Anyway, motivation should not be the first thing that coaches need to do when a player plays for his country. They all talk about the maple leaf on the chest and all of that.

When Heatley gets three points in his first game back with the Senators, "why couldn't he do that" will run through your mind.

BTW, Richards plays the point on the PP for Tampa Bay.

sensens

02-22-2006, 09:21 PM

mooseOAK

02-22-2006, 09:41 PM

Random line-tweeking is not offensive coaching, and it seemed fairly apparent that nobody beyond Brodeur had the foggiest clue of what their precise role on the team was.
I suppose that most of the forwards could have guessed that their role was to supply offence. Especially since nobody was doing much of that.

I would have thought that a Senators fan would have the most respect for Quinn's coaching ability.

God Bless Canada

02-22-2006, 09:42 PM

It's pretty easy to debate player selections and micro-analyze specific plays... personally, I find it the most brainless form of criticism, especially for a game as team-oriented as hockey. Am I really to believe that there wasn't enough firepower, leadership, speed, or quality on this team not to have at least reached a medal-round game? No, when I see a team as talented as Canada shutout in 11 of 12 consecutive periods, I find it virtually impossible not to cast the lion's share of the criticism onto the coaching staff. Martin and Hitchcock are 'systems' coaches without anywhere near enough time to implement a system, and Quinn seems perpetually baffled when the character of his team doesn't overshadow the flagrant out-datedness of his coaching abilities. Random line-tweeking is not offensive coaching, and it seemed fairly apparent that nobody beyond Brodeur had the foggiest clue of what their precise role on the team was.

At the end of the day, you can't steer a Ferrari with a buggy whip, and you aren't going to win anything if you don't clearly designate responsibilities and coherent game plans to your players. Battles are lost by generals, not soldiers - and this performance suggests (to me at least) a screaming need for a change at the helm.
Several good points. Coaching was a hinderance this time. The tournament setup was much different than the last time. More games, fewer breaks, and little chance to get anything going before the tournament.

I said after the Finnish game that Monday was going to be a make-or-break time for our coaches. It broke them. It should have been a time to really get everyone on the same page. But I only saw reports of Gretzky calling out the young guys (and rightfully so), not about Quinn running a great practice.

Quinn's a players coach who has always been beloved by his players. That's often why his teams are successful. He's never been a strong Xs and Os guy. But his players always want to win for him. There didn't seem to be that desire this time.

All of the coaches need to go. At least one of the coaches for 2010 needs to have sizable international experience. That might be Andy Murray, it might be Dave King. There also needs to be a strong offensive coach who can also break down a game.

I don't think leadership was there this time, certainly not like in 2002. There were so many leaders and winners in 2002. This team had a lot of guys in that 25-30 range, and outside of Iginla and Smyth, none of them are exactly leader types.

As for the defence: there's only one reason we surrendered so few goals against - goaltending. Brodeur and Luongo kept the Russia and Finland games close. Brodeur stole the second half of the Czech game.

joe_shannon_1983*

02-22-2006, 10:18 PM

Some thoughts....

1) People are saying that Canada was too loyal to some players, and didn't take enough young guys. However, I think the opposite was true. I think that Canada was too disloyal, and picked too many young guys.

Not taking proven winners like Kariya and Shanahan (especially when they can still play at a high level) is completely inexcusable. They helped win the Gold Medal in 2002, and are still good players, thus why not take them? It is inexcusable. It is made even more inexcusable when you consider that unproven and inexperienced guys like Rick Nash were picked, guys who haven't won a thing in their lives and haven't even played in the NHL playoffs before.

2) For those who want Staal and Spezza on the team? Yeah. That would be the solution. Add even more unproven and inexperienced players to the team, guys who haven't shown that they know what it takes to win. The team didn't have enough of that already right?

Plus, for a team that was struggling with chemistry to begin with, imagine how much more brutal the chemistry would have been if there were 7-8 centres on the team, forcing everyone to play out of position? Adding Staal and Spezza would have made the current problems worse, not better.

Adding Staal and Spezza would have accomplished nothing. The problem with Canada wasn't a lack of quantity in terms of scorers, thus adding more scorers wouldn't have done anything.

Rather, the problem with Canada was a lack of quality in terms of their scorers, as the scorers they did have simply didn't do their jobs.

3) People didn't want Draper, Doan, and Smyth on the team, yet they were some of Canada's best players. I had a feeling that their value would show against the big teams, and they didn't disappoint. They kept Canada in the game while on the penalty kill. The "stars" were the ones who let Canada down, not the role players.

4) Bertuzzi is not to blame, like most people think he is. He played better than Sakic, Heatley, Iginla, Nash, Thornton, and Gagne the entire tournament. He played better than pretty much half the forwards on his team. The guys that I listed did nothing in the tournament, yet Bertuzzi is basically the only one getting called out? That is pretty selective in my opinion.

Other than his one mistake when he took a dumb penalty (which was a costly mistake granted), Bertuzzi played well against Russia. He had some nice shifts when he controlled the puck down low, he stifled some Russian attacks with a few key pass interceptions, and generally played a solid game. Don't let bias and selective memories dim your impression of Bertuzzi's solid effort this tournament.

Devilsfanatic

02-22-2006, 10:21 PM

Heres what went wrong: MARTIN BRODEUR, the guy sucks, he could stop 2 goals from going in, what a tool!!! Not only that, but he couldn't even score a few goals for us, what a disgrace, he should never be allowed in Canada.

:sarcasm:

It's too hard to tell, but I know Quinn took it hard, just based on his comments.

Ironchef Chris Wok*

02-22-2006, 10:21 PM

We don't need additional heart. Or Skill. Or Chemistry. Or a Change in Personnel.

The players needed to a brain and a butt-kciking. They DID receive teh latter from both the Swiss and the FInns, and that didn't help.

Seachd

02-22-2006, 10:23 PM

Staal, Crosby, Phaneuf, Spezza or Tanguay wouldn't have helped.

An ounce of effort would have.

Ironchef Chris Wok*

02-22-2006, 10:25 PM

An ounce of effort would have.

That would DEFINITELY help, but an ounce of brainpower might have gone a long way too.

This was lazy hockey to be sure. But this was also STUPID hockey.

thebodyczech

02-22-2006, 10:30 PM

Well Bouwmeester is suppposed to be the world's greatest skater, and there's been a couple times he got caught flat footed watching the other team get a fantastic chance.

I beg to differ. I was watching a Panthers game a few weeks ago, when the commentators (Dennis Potvin, specifically, I believe) mentioned that when Jacques Martin forced players to do suicides, Joe Nieuwendyk was the first to finish--not Bouwmeester. Jay is good, but he's not that good. Mind you, I didn't expect Nieuwy to be first in that field--not at 38 years old.

That said, Marian Gaborik is a stronger skater. Just look at the acceleration that man has. See: Slovak goals 4 and 5 against Russia.

stockwizard*

02-22-2006, 10:40 PM

I guess good old Wealthmanager was correct.

Gretzky's and Quinn's biases embarrased Canada today.
At one point I thought Janet Gretzky must have placed a bet on Russia to win for Wayne to have chosen our "C" class players.

Yeah guys. Having 5-6 different players wouldn't have made an ounce of difference. :shakehead

Jason MacIsaac

02-22-2006, 10:41 PM

Problems:

1.) Salt Lake we didn't exactly have a great team, we had Mario, Niedermayer and Yzerman though and that makes up alot.

2.) We played a North South game on the big Olympic ice. You need some creativity on the ice.

3.) Our defense was slow with the loss of Niedermayer and Jovo. Not a good job there.

4.) Forwards were too big and slow, Russia was a step ahead the whole game.

Fix the problems:

1.) Play Crosby, Staal and Tanguay up front instead of Draper, Smyth and Bertuzzi.

2.) Phaneuf and Hamhuis should have really gotten consideration for this team. Maybe even Phillips. You need defensmen who can skate.

3.) Quinn is a horrible NHL coach, what makes him a good Olympic hockey coach. Go with a Sutter or Hitchcock as head coach.

stockwizard*

02-22-2006, 10:50 PM

Devilsfanatic

02-22-2006, 10:53 PM

It was those jerseys, team canada just couldn't get comfortable wearing them, it screwed them over.

usual suspects

02-22-2006, 10:55 PM

Richards virtually had an open net in the last minute or two and elected to pass. Did anyone else see that? That could have tied the game
I saw this too and thought he was going to shoot. Also Joe Thornton took a weak shot on the PP but Lecavalier was open on the side of the net. Joe almost never shoots why now?

Nobody stepped up and took this team by the horns..... Sakic is a great player but too quiet and as much respect as he has around the league he is not at the level of respect as Stevie Y and Mario.

serbas

02-22-2006, 10:59 PM

It was those jerseys, team canada just couldn't get comfortable wearing them, it screwed them over.

Its just to bad that today was when Pronger realized "hey we aren't wearing the red jerseys?" :dunno: near the end of the game, right before he took his holding penalty, just after his pass to the Russian player.

Devilsfanatic

02-22-2006, 11:03 PM

Its just to bad that today was when Pronger realized "hey we aren't wearing the red jerseys?" :dunno: near the end of the game, right before he took his holding penalty, just after his pass to the Russian player.

Did they wear the red ones at all in the tourney? In a somewhat weird event (has to do with colors) even my Windows Media Player was mocking me, I was playing music, and the graphics were blaring red and blue, it looked like the russian jerseys.......I looked up to the heavens and asked god why he mocked me.

davedave

02-22-2006, 11:15 PM

Jason MacIsaac

02-22-2006, 11:16 PM

8BostonRocker24

02-22-2006, 11:19 PM

Thornton is the biggest choker in the league. I honestly think they need to use the guy in a 4th line grinding role so he doesnt think that he is a go to guy maybe he will do something out there.
The entire city of Boston could of told you that 2 years ago. He runs and hides when a game maters.

stockwizard*

02-22-2006, 11:23 PM

The entire city of Boston could of told you that 2 years ago. He runs and hides when a game maters.
In all honesty, and this is a no BS, no homer call.

With the dissapearing act of Joe Thornton here, Eric Stall and Sidney Crosby can be considered the 2 best Canadian hockey players in the world today.

Crosby top 10 in league scoring while playing on the worst team in the league, and Stall with 36 goals and 3rd in league scoring. Unbelievable they were left on the team.

G.... D..... you Gretzky.

edallas

02-22-2006, 11:40 PM

I cant believe I read if we had this player on the team instead of that player etc. etc. etc.. Canada has so much talent they could have three good olympic teams. It comes down to any of these teams are only playing together for a couple of weeks and these last games were elimination. ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN! They are still the most talented team.

Jimmi Jenkins

02-22-2006, 11:41 PM

Jimmi Jenkins

02-22-2006, 11:52 PM

Staal - Crosby - Briere
Kariya - Spezza - Sullivan
Savard - Marleau - Cheechoo
Morrow - Horcoff - Bergeron

Phaneuf - Boyle
Hamhuis - Boynton
Phillips - Hannan
Souray

Fernandez
Theodore
Fleury

I like this team as Team Canada 2, but I would make a couple changes

RTWAP*

02-22-2006, 11:59 PM

Trap or Die
I choose die. Self respect is important.

RTWAP*

02-23-2006, 12:00 AM

If Sutter picked a team, you'd probably see Jarrett Stoll, Ethan Moreau, Stephane Yelle, Daymond Langkow, Matt Cooke on the team (to name a few). Not the Spezza's or Crosby's.Actually, I think a team of speedy, gritty guys would have done better at this tournament
Agreed. I'd rather have Fisher than Spezza on a team with these problems.

gr8haluschak

02-23-2006, 12:01 AM

Staal - Crosby - Briere
Kariya - Spezza - Sullivan
Savard - Marleau - Bouchard
Morrow - Madden - Cheechoo

Phaneuf - Boyle
Hamhuis - Boynton
Phillips - Hannan
B Jackman

Brodeur
Luongo
Turco

Crawford as head coach and I keep the goaltenders. I think this squad would have done better then our team. Its faster, younger, and more creative.

Umm yeah OK there are just too many things to say so I will sum it up to this team blows as well what happened when Crawford coached team Canada before

stockwizard*

02-23-2006, 12:01 AM

I like this team as Team Canada 2, but I would make a couple changes
This team would beat Canada 1.

gr8haluschak

02-23-2006, 12:04 AM

This team would beat Canada 1.

Oh give it up, guys who have NEVER played or barely played the international game as well as have never or barely have represented the country would beat what we sent, yeah ok

stockwizard*

02-23-2006, 12:07 AM

Oh give it up, guys who have NEVER played or barely played the international game as well as have never or barely have represented the country would beat what we sent, yeah ok
So?
For the most part they are more passionate and better players.
They certainly would win.

Obviously this "experience factor" got our team nowhere.

Vaive-Alive

02-23-2006, 12:09 AM

McCabe and Bertuzzi, that's it that's all. Canada now and in the long run would have been better served to have Phaneuf and Staal on the active roster, because those players will carry team Canada in the future.

I agree on the Bertuzzi call. However, I would have kept McCabe - the few bonehead penalties were made up for by the plays he made that literally saved goals. Pronger and Blake looked like they were glued to the ice the entire tournament. Pronger in particular was the weakest link. We need skaters - size did us nothing.

David

02-23-2006, 12:11 AM

This is Martin Brodeur's way of saying that guys on team Canada did not try hard enough...and I would have to agree 100%...and I believe THIS is the MAIN reason among many for our failure.

I believe that on paper, at least, the team had more talent than any other team with better depth than any other team.

Sure, there were problems with coaching decisions, not using the players in the right capacitiy.

There were problems with taking too many big bodies and leaving off spark plugs and shifty players more suited to the big ice.

The lockout probably affected team Canada and US more than others as well.

The fact is, there were a lot of problems but desite it all, they were toe to toe with Russians late in the 3rd period until a brain fart by Bertuzzi effectively did the team in. So the talent wasn't the problem.

Main thing was that most were playing like prima donnas.

No hitting. No blocking shots. No sacrificing for the good of the team. No desire to win at any cost. In short, selfish egos and indifference. You could even see this attitude in the interviews afterwards, as well as the many senseless and selfish penalties that they took.

Granted there were some bad calls but the fact of the matter is that Canada went into the Olympics again thinking that they were some cowboys, God's gift to hockey and that Italy should be grateful that they even bothered coming here because they were simply gonna hand Canada the gold in all their majesty...just like back in Nagano... :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

We didn't learn a thing!!!

At least in Nagano, Canadian boys WANTED to win and once they got off their high horses and realized that it wasn't gonna be a walk in the park, they did everything that they can to win. Poured their hearts and souls into it but failed.

In Torino, they simply put their egos before the team, the country, and the win...and pointed their fingers to another and said, "No, why don't you go do it". Everybody is still waiting for everybody else to step it up...and the cold reality hits...THERE IS NO TOMORROW.

Canada has lost its heart. Canada is now on par with team U.S. and what team Russia used to be. GUTLESS.

Shameful indeed!

Vincent_TheGreat

02-23-2006, 12:12 AM

All of the above. Coaching was bad, players flat out sucked and played like Team Italy. They were undisciplined, they didn't skate hard witht he exception of Gagne, Lecavalier, Nash and St. Louis! Just a disgusting and embarassing display by a bunch of morons, who didn't seem to realize what this meant!

gr8haluschak

02-23-2006, 12:13 AM

So?
For the most part they are more passionate and better players.
They certainly would win.

Obviously this "experience factor" got our team nowhere.

Oh sgive me a break because i laugh at comments like yours yes a worse talented team would win, I mean these guys can put the puck in the net better then some of the leading scorers right? You sit there and talk all you want because you honestly have no clue becuase people who have won will not do it again right, I mean ask the Wings, Devils, or Oilers right

stockwizard*

02-23-2006, 12:16 AM

Oh sgive me a break because i laugh at comments like yours yes a worse talented team would win, I mean these guys can put the puck in the net better then some of the leading scorers right? You sit there and talk all you want because you honestly have no clue becuase people who have won will not do it again right, I mean ask the Wings, Devils, or Oilers right
Oh really?
3 of the highest scorers were left off the team!!!!!!!
Of course we were better off with 3 goal Draper instead of 36 goal Stall. :biglaugh:

Jimmi Jenkins

02-23-2006, 12:18 AM

And I hate to sound like a whiner, but I don't know that Pat Quinn has the coaching skills to handle a team like this, a Sutter or Hitchcock, would have probably made a better choice. Just a thought

Pens75

02-23-2006, 12:19 AM

Then lets look at some of the picks that you so called experts think should have been out there - guys like Crosby, Staal, Spezza would have helped us in which way, what because they can score in the NHL they must have been able to score here right?

Wrong Einstein... they are young and hungry, something Team Canada wasn't.

Staal, Crosby, Phaneuf, Spezza or Tanguay wouldn't have helped.

An ounce of effort would have.

Don't look now, but you just contradicted yourself.

Phanuthier*

02-23-2006, 12:20 AM

gr8haluschak

02-23-2006, 12:25 AM

Does anyone have any clue what this guy is trying to say?

You know what I am getting sick and tired of your garbage *** is your problem ? seriously you sit there and throw out garbage comments to posts that do not pertain to you, seriously are you trying to just boost up your post count to make yourself look like someone who has a clue or what

The Joker

02-23-2006, 12:28 AM

Phanuthier*

02-23-2006, 12:29 AM

You know what I am getting sick and tired of your garbage *** is your problem ? seriously you sit there and throw out garbage comments to posts that do not pertain to you, seriously are you trying to just boost up your post count to make yourself look like someone who has a clue or what
No, I honestly have no idea what your trying to say.

rad_sci_guy

02-23-2006, 12:30 AM

Staal, Crosby, Phaneuf, Spezza or Tanguay wouldn't have helped.

An ounce of effort would have.

You hit the nail right on the head. Switzerland, Finland and Russia all had the effort against Canada. Hell even the Czech put in more effort than Canada but were hindered by the bad goaltending in the first period of that game.

It's Ironic that the attributes we pride in Canadian hockey were so clearly demonstrated today by the Russians. They not only skated better, they out hustled and out hit, played disicplined and frankly showed more heart than our Canadian team. Canada turtled like the old Soviet teams used to do. None of the players and coaches on this team deserve the privilege of representing our country again at the next Olympics with the exception of Marty Turco and the taxi squad.

Big Mama*

02-23-2006, 12:30 AM

And I hate to sound like a whiner, but I don't know that Pat Quinn has the coaching skills to handle a team like this, a Sutter or Hitchcock, would have probably made a better choice. Just a thought

Wasn't Hitchcock on the team as a coach? And Sutter the two players he sent to the Team sucked. Sutter has turned a 50 goal scorer, Iginla, into a 20 goal scorer. Would have been nice if Iginla passed the puck to Sakic on the 2 on 1. Sakic can actually score.

Cruiser008

02-23-2006, 12:32 AM

Big Mama*

02-23-2006, 12:33 AM

It's Ironic that the attributes we pride in Canadian hockey were so clearly demonstrated today by the Russians. They not only skated better, they out hustled and out hit, played disicplined and frankly showed more heart than our Canadian team. Canada turtled like the old Soviet teams used to do. None of the players and coaches on this team deserve the privilege of representing our country again at the next Olympics with the exception of Marty Turco and the taxi squad.

There was a lack of hustle, intensity and pride in the crest on the jersey. McCabe should be allowed on the next team. All he did was tape the sticks. How do you keep the top offensive d-man in the NHL on the bench when your team can't score. I'll never understand that thinking.

Jimmi Jenkins

02-23-2006, 12:34 AM

You know what I am getting sick and tired of your garbage *** is your problem ? seriously you sit there and throw out garbage comments to posts that do not pertain to you, seriously are you trying to just boost up your post count to make yourself look like someone who has a clue or what
He's an engineering student, what do you expect, he know it all. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

stockwizard*

02-23-2006, 12:34 AM

You know what I am getting sick and tired of your garbage *** is your problem ? seriously you sit there and throw out garbage comments to posts that do not pertain to you, seriously are you trying to just boost up your post count to make yourself look like someone who has a clue or what
You seem to have a lot of bitterness inside of you.

Anyways.... Try to stay on topic.

Jimmi Jenkins

02-23-2006, 12:37 AM

Wasn't Hitchcock on the team as a coach? And Sutter the two players he sent to the Team sucked. Sutter has turned a 50 goal scorer, Iginla, into a 20 goal scorer. Would have been nice if Iginla passed the puck to Sakic on the 2 on 1. Sakic can actually score.
Yeah I know he was, but I mean as the Head coach calling all he shots. And trust me if you haven't seen the Flames play, Sutter didn't screw up Iginla, the Flames total lack of any offensive talent to compliment him is what has damaged him.

stockwizard*

02-23-2006, 12:46 AM

Bottom line is I, and alot of others, are thorougly emabarrased by this display.

Gretzky failed to take his job seriously and act in good faith as architect of this team.

He let down a Country.

Big Mama*

02-23-2006, 12:48 AM

Yeah I know he was, but I mean as the Head coach calling all he shots. And trust me if you haven't seen the Flames play, Sutter didn't screw up Iginla, the Flames total lack of any offensive talent to compliment him is what has damaged him.

Lack of scoring always seems to be the case with Sutter teams. They can't score going all the way back to the Blackhawks. And that was the problem with the Olympic team.

I saw an interview with Hitch on TSN talking about his game plan for the defenceman and how they were going to ride Pronger and Blake. I was struck that no Team Canada defencman were jumping into the rush in all the games they lost. Only McCabe in his limited ice time rushed the puck up the ice or joined the rush today.

The funny part is that Quinn is an offensive coach. He wants defenceman jumping into the rush to create 4 on 3 plays. I saw none of that all tournament. This game plan looks like a collaboration and it was flawed.

All the coaches and GM need to be replaced. That is the price of failure.

Phanuthier*

02-23-2006, 12:52 AM

He's an engineering student, what do you expect, he know it all. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
How do so many people know so much about me? :help:

Say it with algabra, much easier to understand. ;)

sensens

02-23-2006, 12:52 AM

I suppose that most of the forwards could have guessed that their role was to supply offence. Especially since nobody was doing much of that.
Supplying offence is not a role, it's the cumulative goal that is only achieved by everyone executing their respective roles on the ice. Any clown can put on a suit and tell players to go out and "supply offence"... what does that mean? What kind of game was Canada trying to play? Strong forecheck? Neutral zone pressure? Quick transition? It hardly seemed apparent. And what about when your opponents have figured out ways to defend against that kind of abstract approach to scoring? Do the coaches just throw up their hands?

A team without focus and direction - regardless of talent - is a team that's going to look disorganized and lost on the ice... and not surprisingly that's precisely what we got. Darryl Sutter was bang on when he said that the team had the wrong game plan (if any) from the get-go - and that's not so much a criticism of the players or of the team that Gretzky put on the ice, but rather a pretty direct criticism of the coaching staff from a well-respected coach. Ultimately, it's the coaches' job to prepare the team for the games and for the tournament... and I would have to say that there was a colossal failure in this regard.

Jimmi Jenkins

02-23-2006, 12:59 AM

How do so many people know so much about me? :help:

Say it with algabra, much easier to understand. ;)
One time on the Oilers borders you said that Ford trucks weren't reliable because they roll, and you knew that because you were an engineer, so then I check your HF bio, and it said 19 year-old UofA student. I put two and two together there kiddo ;)

Phanuthier*

02-23-2006, 01:01 AM

One time on the Oilers borders you said that Ford trucks weren't reliable because they roll, and you knew that because you were an engineer, so then I check your HF bio, and it said 19 year-old UofA student. I put two and two together there kiddo ;)
Ah... I was wondering. I didn't say exactly that, but no need to nerd things up here. And I'm not mechanical. I'm actually 21 if you needed to know. ;)

Shack

02-23-2006, 01:27 AM

The biggest reason why Canada didn't advance was that there were better teams in this tournament. With new ref line and bigger ice Canada's defence was in big troubles.

There's no use for guys like Pronger or Blake when you're playing with these rules and this ice surface. Size doesn't matter anymore.

Hedberg

02-23-2006, 01:36 AM

Paul Kariya was treated unfairly. He would be great on the big ice.

Jorge Garcia

02-23-2006, 01:42 AM

Gretzky thought the guys who ruled the world in '02 and '04 would be able to get it done one more time. He was wrong, no need to shoot the guy.
Face it, in a single knockout tourmament, anything can happen. Yesterday's alleged humiliation was in essence a 1-0 defeat, with a Canadian goal called back -- again -- due to a ref's error. Yeah, the Russians were better, but it could easily have ended up 2-1 Canada. Then we'd all be posting merrily about the gutless, selfish Russians blowing it again, and those veteran Canadians doing what if takes to win.
For some strange reason, I'm not all that bitterly disappointed. :dunno:

Hedberg

02-23-2006, 01:43 AM

Has Canada every been shutout 3 times in a tournament before?

Hedberg

02-23-2006, 01:56 AM

We lost because we didn't have the lucky loonie :sarcasm:

Oilerfan120582

02-23-2006, 02:29 AM

We lost because we didn't have the lucky loonie :sarcasm:

Or maybe we had one...but put it in the wrong arena.

We scored 0 goals in 3 games at Torino Esposizioni (sp?) and obviously lost all 3, while at the other arena we scored 15 goals in 3 games and won all 3.

Habs_Apostle

02-23-2006, 02:53 AM

Doan strait up shouldnt have been on the team he has had a terrible season. That is all Wayne we know where to throw the blame there.

Ironic, because Doan was Canada's best player.

Balej20

02-23-2006, 02:54 AM

We lost because we didn't have the lucky loonie :sarcasm:
BINGO

Habs_Apostle

02-23-2006, 02:57 AM

Staal, Crosby, Phaneuf, Spezza or Tanguay wouldn't have helped.

An ounce of effort would have.

These guys might have brought enthusiasm to the team in a way that only youth can. That enthusiasm might have charged up the veterans making them play with fire. Adding these guys could have made a HUGE difference.

Balej20

02-23-2006, 02:58 AM

These guys might have brought enthusiasm to the team in a way that only youth can. That enthusiasm might have charged up the veterans making them play with fire. Adding these guys could have made HUGE difference.
Exactly.

Jimmi Jenkins

02-23-2006, 04:27 AM

I guess Thinking you're the best and actually being the best are two different things.

Maelmoor

02-23-2006, 06:08 AM

http://img.aftonbladet.se/sport/0602/23/mal.jpg

The goal no one saw, the canadians didn't protest about this but it should have meant 1-1..I never saw it, never even reflected over it...

Jimmi Jenkins

02-23-2006, 06:26 AM

http://img.aftonbladet.se/sport/0602/23/mal.jpg

The goal no one saw, the canadians didn't protest about this but it should have meant 1-1..I never saw it, never even reflected over it...
That play was after the whistle, I saw the play and the reply.

Thanks, but frankly we didn't deserve this one, congrats to the Russians

go kim johnsson 514

02-23-2006, 07:40 AM

deandebean

02-23-2006, 07:51 AM

The Canadian junior program has the formula and it works. You need a pro scout, someone with super credentials, with NO strings attached to a specific team or indidivual. Like MacKasey did with the juniors.

You need a coach who can lit a fire and keeps the ship tight.

You need commitment. You need a real summer camp with your roster, not a country club. You need to make real cuts. Have a competitive camp.

You need more skill and speed on the team, less physical presence (Canada can have both depending on the personnel).

Plain and simple: Hockey Canada needs to be SERIOUS with the Olympic program, as much as with the juniors.

At the juniors, sentimental choices are irrelevant. But with Pro Team Canada, sentimentality has everything to do with it.

Zell_Rocks

02-23-2006, 07:54 AM

deandebean

02-23-2006, 07:57 AM

Oh! and the most important thing: A SENSE OF URGENCY!

octopi

02-23-2006, 08:15 AM

teme

02-23-2006, 08:27 AM

P. Sihvonen, a Finnish coach/commentator fond of technical commentary and a controversial figure, gives pretty interesting and detailed explanation of why North Americans lost. The story is in Finnish at Urheiluhti (http://www.urheilulehti.fi/jaakiekko/uutiset/article126744-1.html) but I'll summarize the relevant parts (on the whole I both agree and disagree):

Ironically, the zero tolerance refs the North Americans insisted on proved to be their downfall. When you combine the wide rink with the zero tolerance, the European way of playing defence is superior. European defenceman leave more space between themselves and the forwards on the boards, and are on average more mobile. North Americans on the other play a game in the smaller rink where they are right at the skin of the forward. In the bigger rink they either end up over-commiting and are beaten by fleet footed forwards, which leads to obstruction penalties, or stay too close to the goal thus giving the forwards too much room. Canadian and American dman are also prone to standing still in these situations, which leads to loss of momentum further hurting their mobility.

To make matters worse, North American forwards are not used to having that much room in the boards. They are both too far from the goal to score, but also too far from the defenceman to challenge them one-on-one, and are not adept at other options. European defenceman are also good at surrenredering space to avoid getting beaten one-on-one, something you can not do so easily in the smaller rink due to less space.

Sihvonen notes that zero tolerance in general (on which he seems to have mixed feelings) along with the removal of redline offside (he is against) changes the game in suprising and unpredictable ways. He believes North Americans may modify zero tolerancce to better suit their game, or else they have to develop a new generation of players and that will take about seven years. Generally speaking, smaller players being on average more mobile may lead to player average size dropping for a change.

mattihp

02-23-2006, 09:20 AM

Team Canada should have looked like this.

Tanguay-Sakic-Iginla
Marleau-Spezza-Heatley
Richards-Thornton-Staal
Smyth-Lecaviler-Doan

Phanuef-Regher
Boyle-Bouweester
Niedermayer-Redden

That is a gold medal winning team right there.
A Rookie on the first pairing? :eek:

NO coach on a stacked team like canada would have a rookie on their team, even less on the first pairing, even if he was the second coming of Orr...

London Knights

02-23-2006, 09:42 AM

Wow that is amazing insight, how about you address the fact why did he have to go through Kovalevs skates ? would it because that is the only way he could get the puck to the forward and that is how their break out is designed. And before those of you sit there and say he could have passed it to Blake again well by the time he gets his stick going to make that pass that second Russian is right there to knock it off of his stick, as well the way it looked like the Russians were setting up they needed to go to that one side (the near side to the camera) to get it into their zone. That play was a prime example of our biggest problem we decied to get on the otherside of centre BEFORE the puck leaves our zone. Our forwards did a piss poor job of comming down low into our zone to get those passes and as a result ALL OF OUR D MEN had to make huge passes

Ummmmmmmmmm......the only way to get the puck to the forward was to make a stupid play when you are down by a goal already? Ever heard of dump the puck off the glass.

And you are giving him leeway because of a hypothetical situation, the other Russian forward wasn't on top of Blake, you drop the puck back and it gives him an extra second to make the play that Pronger didn't have. But typical of Chris' play, he makes a boneheaded play to counterract the 10 good plays he usually makes in a game. Unfortunately, and whether it was just because of his foot or that he has lost a step for playing on the International ice, he wasn't making those 10 good plays this tournament.

His minutes should have been reduced because of it. Play him 5 on 5, fine, but you had a PP specialist on your defense who got no time out there on a PP that was terrible at the best of times. Playing Redden, who is a great passer, with McCabe on the point could have created a "Kaberle+McCabe" unit on the PP and with the players Canada had that were willing to go to the net you would have at least made an effort to turn things around...instead we just saw ineffectiveness the entire tournament from a pair of point men who just weren't getting the job done.

4th_Liner

02-23-2006, 09:48 AM

Playing Redden, who is a great passer, with McCabe on the point could have created a "Kaberle+McCabe" unit on the PP and with the players Canada had that were willing to go to the net you would have at least made an effort to turn things around...instead we just saw ineffectiveness the entire tournament from a pair of point men who just weren't getting the job done.
how could they have played redden when they couldn't find him?.. the guy showed once again just how magical his dissapearing acts can be..

London Knights

02-23-2006, 10:15 AM

how could they have played redden when they couldn't find him?.. the guy showed once again just how magical his dissapearing acts can be..

I agree that he wasn't stellar playing, I just wanted to see him out there to feed McCabe's point shot.

There really wasn't a single player on that defense that played well. Blake was probably the best one, but even he was making consistent mistakes.

The team lacked heart. It was sad to watch and I'll be glad that most likely a good number of these players won't be back in 2010.

4th_Liner

02-23-2006, 10:29 AM

It was sad to watch and I'll be glad that most likely a good number of these players won't be back in 2010.
i am a little worried that a good number of these players won't be back.. looking at the younger ones.. redden mccabe are busts in tournaments of any kind (playoffs/internatinal).. so then you might need to count on jovo brewer morris stuart who definately do not measure up to mcinnis pronger blake foote during their hay days..
niedermayer's absence was obvious this time around.. but do we have another niedermayer in the next generation?..
jbow phaneuf whitney seabrook eminger are some of the next generation guys.. no doubt that they'll get better but how good?..

DevilsFan38

02-23-2006, 10:34 AM

The problem with this team was its lack of effort/heart. I don't know whose fault it is - Gretzky's for picking the players, Quinn's for not getting more out of them, or the players themselves for not playing better, but they just looked apathetic out there.

In the last few minutes of the game when they needed a goal, there was no urgency. If you had flipped to the game from another channel and didn't know how much time was left, you would have had no idea that the Canadian team was trying to tie it up.

Cup 2010 Sens Rule

02-23-2006, 10:35 AM

That is the worst Canasian Hockey display I have ever personally seen in my 40 yrs.

- No passion

- No effort

- No Drive

These guys did not play like the cared that much if they won or lost period. You All saw it , I am sad to sat it but thats what I saw.

Just a brutal non inspirational effort by Team Canada this Olympics.

After watching Switzerland and Italy play with pashion with little top-level talent I think if you went with an AHL team of players and a few hungry NHL stars you would be better off than the team we went with for this tournament at least. Hunger is a big thing and these guys didn't have it. Steve Martins an AHLer in his mid-thirties who has been called up for a few games with the Sens this season would have been team Canada's best forward if he was on this team. That sounds ridiculous but I think it is true. Mike Fisher would have been great on this team. Crosby too. McCabe and Bertuzzi were awful, they took many retarded penalties. The team had no heart or desire. You need hungry players to win and it seemed no one was hungry at all. I'm not saying that you send AHLers in 2010 but you better have passionate guys who are hungry not old stars who already have an Olympic medal and have proven themselves.

The philosophy this season was to send guys that already have Olympic gold, and world Championships and Stanley cups. I think if you send the top 23 players who have never won a cup or an international medal you might do a heck of alot better.

Beukeboom Fan

02-23-2006, 10:48 AM

Checking, physical presence and leadership mean NOTHING when you get shut out. All these so called "heart" players didn't show up. Heatley was the best Canadian today against Russia.

Why do you think that Spezza, Staal & Crosby would of played better than Iginla, Sakic & Gagne?

My point is that some people are saying the Canadians failed because they fielded an "all-star" team, when actually the exact opposite is the case. I don't see a team having more chemistry by adding guys who would be playing out of position. I sure wouldn't want Spezza or Crosby out there killing penalties BTW.

02-23-2006, 10:49 AM

I blame Steve Moore for this loss. Him and that Prosecutor in Jersey who just couldn't couldn't keep his yap shut for a month until Canada brought home the gold.

If there was a way I could lash out at Steve Moore and actually cause him to experience the pain I feel right now, I'd do it.

Beukeboom Fan

02-23-2006, 11:02 AM

From an American standpoint, it is obvious to me that Eric Staal and Jason Spezza should have been on the team, and Kris Draper and Rick Nash should not have. Draper was terrible and Nash ended up riding the bench.

Only problem I have with that is not you have 6 natural centers: Sakic, Thornton, Lecavlier, Richards, Staal, Spezza. I think that the team had time for 1 practice, so all you do is create even more chemistry problems by having guys that are playing out of position. Also, who would be on the PK?

IMO, the last thing that people can complain about was the talent level of the Canadian team. It's all about having your best players step up, and no on except Brodeur did. Simple as that.

balddog66

02-23-2006, 11:31 AM

I don't blame the coaches at all, the experience and records they have in the NHL and international game are unmatched.

Blame has to go to the players...they simply couldn't come together...you can argue who should have been there, I thought Spezza should have been there simply because of his familiarity with Heatley..but who knows.

A big factor I truly believe is Canada was missing a focus player like Mario Lemieux. Because of his status in the game, he was able to take the focus/pressure off other players, he was the guy other teams worried about which allowed the rest of the team to relax and play...also, missing Scott Niedermayers ability to rush the puck hurt...and my biggest beef was not having Bryan McCabe on the PP...does he not lead the NHL defenseman in PP goals? Pronger and Blake looked terrible on the PP...I was surprized Quinn never really gave McCabe a chance...

Legolas

02-23-2006, 11:38 AM

I blame the coaches and the players collectively, the players more than the coaches to the tune of 70% to 30%.

When they had their final practice in Mississauga, the coaching staff said they had already used the August training camp to install their systems and technical routines for the team. Bertuzzi even said it wasn't too complicated because everyone played under the same basic system in the NHL anyway. When that system didn't produce right away, the coaching staff did very little to adjust, and by the time they did get some adjustments going, it was too late. Things like spreading out too much on the power play on the big ice, not bringing up the puck with proper puck support, playing guys out of their natural positions, those are coaching mistakes. It only unfortunately reinforces that Quinn is a great coach when his team is playing well, but if forced to make adjustments, he can't do it. That's also a long knock on Jacques Martin.

The players are most to blame because even if the system was flawed and adjustments were slow in coming, they played so terribly bad that it wouldn't have mattered what system they were using anyway. I'm a huge Montreal fan, but there's no way that Chris Pronger should be getting abused in the corner by Saku Koivu...that's ridiculous...and only one example of the players just not battling and putting forward their best effort. In Salt Lake City, the team started poorly but by the medal round, they were flying. Even during the blowouts against Italy and Germany, you still didn't get the sense they were playing that well.

Legolas

02-23-2006, 11:41 AM

The philosophy this season was to send guys that already have Olympic gold, and world Championships and Stanley cups. I think if you send the top 23 players who have never won a cup or an international medal you might do a heck of alot better.

I agree somewhat, but I think the reasoning behind picking the team was sound as well. The idea was that you bring experienced veterans in who can deal with the pressure of playing for Canada, and add players like Thornton and Nash who weren't on the 2002 team but who dominated in Switzerland during the lockout and on the big ice at the World Championships. The players did not perform, simple but true...and I don't think you can blame Gretzky for not foreseeing that they would not perform.

callighenfan

02-23-2006, 11:52 AM

Paul Kariya was treated unfairly. He would be great on the big ice.

This is just a thought-experiment, not a "who should have made the team" complaint, but with all the talk about Spezza, Staal, etc., I wonder who the players are who might have helped based purely on how well-suited they are to the international ice surface.

Kariya makes sense. Marleau? Wes Walz instead of Kris Draper? Not having Niedermayer hurt, as noted.

That said, you'd think St. Louis would have been able to use his speed to great effect, but such was not the case.

ThorntonSamsonovfan

02-23-2006, 11:55 AM

I think it is much easier to say how Staal, Crosby and Spezza should have gone after the Olympics is over. The reality is that Canada had the best team on paper, it just didn't work out.

The players did not gel and some of the big players just didn't show up. In a tournament with such a high standard you cannot get away with that, Russia also has a top class team and they had a better day than Canada, although Canada probably played their best game of the tournament against Russia in my opinion.

My view is that things like this can't be helped. If Canada had known a young superstar sniper like Rick Nash would not show up or Chris Pronger one of the best D-men in the game would make loads of mistakes or the 2nd leading Scorer in the NHL Thornton would only get a couple of points or the leading D-man in PP McCabe wouldn't get a powerplay point or the big game player Iginla wouldn't show up or the exciting St. Louis wouldn't excite. It would have been great but they couldn't, its unfortunate but no-ones fault, I don't think anyone would say that the only two players to really not let Canada down in this tournament would be Doan and Brodeur at the start of the tournament.

callighenfan

02-23-2006, 11:59 AM

I blame the H20 boy myself. Could've slipped sedatives into their drinks.

C'mon people chill out. I'm a Red Wings fan, I've seen them lose a series 4 straight to the underdog Ducks.I still repress the memories, but I do remember the Wings suddenly couldn't score to save their lives. Its called "Hot goalie".

All the talent on earth doesn't mean a team can't have a off game, or a few off games, either.

And what about the larger ice? Is it possible that Russian players might just be more accustomed to how to play hockey on that?

Also, for the last time, Russia was the underdog, but look at the rosters. They have some seriously good players they iced. Canada did too, but you know what? On that particular night, Russia was better.

So what you're saying is that it was all a lousy draw! Yeah, that's it, a bad draw! What chance did Canada have, stacked up against Martin "Swiss Tretiak" Gerber!?

No no, wait. We didn't wear the hideous yellow jerseys that got us going (which I confess to secretly liking) at a previous championship!

No, no, wait. It's because we didn't have a lucky toonie under the ice, to help us win our second gold!

octopi, don't you understand? We need something to blame!

Lorenzo1000

02-23-2006, 12:42 PM

I think a lot of people should give their head a shake. When you consider the top hockey players in the world all of Canada, the U.S., Russia, Finland, Sweden, the Czechs, and even Slovakia, if you put out the top 20 players from each country all the teams are pretty equal and they're all going to win some of the time and lose some of the time. Canada probably has more depth than the other countries but you can only send 20 guys.

As for the Russians sending young guys like Malkin and Ovechkin while we didn't send Crosby and Staal, well who would the Russians have sent instead of them???

Canada is just not going to win every time. The other teams aren't full of 5 foot tall defensemen like the women's teams, these are all NHL players we're talking about. Get used to it. :teach:

Kfarschman

02-23-2006, 12:45 PM

When you have selfish players (like Rick Nash for example) no team can win.

Plus, where were the snipers? Iginla, Bertuzzi, Nash??? These guys were invisible. Add into it dumb penalties by players (Hello Pronger!) and it's an early exit.

So you have a personal vendetta agains Nash. If you actually watched any of the games you would realize that he got maybe 3 shifts per if he was lucky. He didn't help or hurt them, he never got a chance. He probably said something to Quinn like "Wow, even the Bluejackets play with more heart and score more than this team!" and got benched.

I only cared about Team Canada because I wanted to see Nash play and the more his shifts were skipped :banghead: the more I wanted them to lose :thumbd: . They deserved to lose anyways. Go Russia! :yo: Go Finland! :win: Go Czech! :handclap: Go Sweden! :thumbu: Good effort Swiss! :clap: You played hard Latvia! :toothless Screw you U.S. (even though noone expected much, but one win?!) and Screw you Canada (big let down)! :madfire:

chara

02-23-2006, 01:05 PM

Of the top 10 Canadian scorers in the NHL this season, the following 6 players did not make Team Canada:

Eric Staal --- the best uninjured player not playing in the Olympics
Marc Savard --- off everyone's list and all he does is PUT UP POINTS...
Alex Tanguay --- obvious chemistry with Sakic
Sidney Crosby --- Note to next GM: Build the team around him like the Russians did with Ovechkin and Kovalchuk
Patrick Marleau --- play him with SJ teammate Big Joe
Paul Kariya --- ooodles and oodles of experience on the big ice including Salt Lake

Jason MacIsaac

02-23-2006, 01:07 PM

Oh sgive me a break because i laugh at comments like yours yes a worse talented team would win, I mean these guys can put the puck in the net better then some of the leading scorers right? You sit there and talk all you want because you honestly have no clue becuase people who have won will not do it again right, I mean ask the Wings, Devils, or Oilers right
So Swiss were more talented then us, Finland was more talented then us? Get a clue, we didn't win because we were old and not hungry enough. A young faster Canadian team would have a better shot. I am not saying they would win but they would do better.

Jason MacIsaac

02-23-2006, 01:10 PM

Umm yeah OK there are just too many things to say so I will sum it up to this team blows as well what happened when Crawford coached team Canada before
How does it blow...this team has 8 players over a PPG in the NHL and all those players have creativity to work on a bigger ice surface. The defense are all number 1's or number 2's in the NHL with speed. May lack experience but it still would be the best defense in the tourney.

Kenadyan

02-23-2006, 01:15 PM

I blame the jerseys. Nike's more form fitted jersey allowed the Europeans to be much faster. Besides, compared to the ones they wore at the last two Olympics, these were hideous. :sarcasm:

Ironchef Chris Wok*

02-23-2006, 01:16 PM

Eric Staal --- the best uninjured player not playing in the Olympics

A power forward that could skate. That was SUPPOSED to be Nash and Thornton.

Marc Savard --- off everyone's list and all he does is PUT UP POINTS...

So you want ANOTHER soft offensive forward?

Alex Tanguay --- obvious chemistry with Sakic

Again, another soft offensive forward

Sidney Crosby --- Note to next GM: Build the team around him like the Russians did with Ovechkin and Kovalchuk

i would have had him instead of Draper simply to build for the NEXT team Canada

Patrick Marleau --- play him with SJ teammate Big Joe

Aren't they both centerman? Marleau and Doan are similar anyway. Big guys that can move.

Paul Kariya --- ooodles and oodles of experience on the big ice including Salt Lake

Wow, another small speedy forward like St. Louis.

The point isn't that these players are better or worse than our players, the point is that all these players share a similar skillset with the players WE ALERADY HAD. Sure you can second guess the selections, but BEFORE thsi tournament, you can't honest tell me you would have taken Eric Staal over Rick Nash/Jarome Iginla/Joe Thronton. Bertuzzi is a different story.

chara

02-23-2006, 01:32 PM

The point isn't that these players are better or worse than our players, the point is that all these players share a similar skillset with the players WE ALERADY HAD. Sure you can second guess the selections, but BEFORE thsi tournament, you can't honest tell me you would have taken Eric Staal over Rick Nash/Jarome Iginla/Joe Thronton. Bertuzzi is a different story.

Actually, in my picks I had Staal over Nash, Thornton and obviously Bertuzzi. Aside from Ovechkin this season, he has been the most explosive player in the NHL. In every game against the Sens, he was the most dangerous forward on the ice. His speed and stick handling thru the offensive zone is incredible. No one drives the net better.

That said, I agree with your point about second guessing the selections. The team played a certain way and that's that. It just wasn't the right way to play in this tournament. So yes, it would have made little difference who suited up for Canada in these Olympics.

mncdn

02-23-2006, 01:46 PM

I have come to the conclusion that Canada lost for a number of factors.

1. Like most people have said the lack of scoring was an issue. I think Crosby would have contributed alot or even Staal. Yes Mr. Gretzky needs to lay off the politics and should of picked the best team. Also adding more speed like Kariya would have helped alot.

2. Defense- they seemed to contribute little.

3. Coaching Staff- I hate Toronto so Quinn should get the boot. However I think a different apporach is needed. Maybe a coach that sole purpose throughout the year is to concentrate on Team Canada.

4. Bertuzzi and Nash. Both sucked. Dumb penatlies. I wonder if Gretz was thinking that Bertuzzi would contribute like Fluery did. Hey everyone deserves a second chance UMMM WRONG!!!!

5. Leadership- I don't feel like a goalie can lead a team so with that said Team Canada had no leaders. No Super Mario in the locker room. I guarantee that if Super Mario was in the locker room their would have been a different outcome. And lets face facts; Sakic is not a leader at least for Team Canada. Yes he is a Minnesota Wild killer but not very vocal.

6. Die hard Canadians only expect GOLD. Pressure had to be their and obviously Gretz learned who could and could not handle pressure.

God Bless Canada

02-23-2006, 01:59 PM

This team would have needed major changes to improve their finish. And I'm not talking about Staal for Draper here.

Two months ago, when this team was announced, 80 per cent of the players were considered gimmies. Nobody complained about the goalies. (And for good reason. The goalies were the bright spot). Nobody complained about Niedermayer, Pronger, Redden or Regehr. Blake and Foote raised minor debate. Jovanovski was the controversial pick, but let's face it: we missed his mobility and ability to move the puck. The only question marks up front were Draper, Doan (both of whom actually did their job), Nash and Bertuzzi.

Two months ago, if you would have suggested Marleau for Thornton, you would have been branded a baffoon. Or Kariya ahead of Gagne. Morrow over Richards. Tanguay over Lecavalier. Boyle over Blake. Now, though...

Cup 2010 Sens Rule

02-23-2006, 02:29 PM

I
3. Coaching Staff- I hate Toronto so Quinn should get the boot. However I think a different apporach is needed. Maybe a coach that sole purpose throughout the year is to concentrate on Team Canada.

That is the best idea in this thread. Coaching failed us big time and that isn't Quinn's or the assitants entirely they are doing something else all year. If you have a top coach focus exclusively on Team Canada and pick the players you would do better. Larry Robinson comes to mind as a candidate for 2010.

Zaddik

02-23-2006, 02:45 PM

i've said it before and i've said it again: it was the philosophy gretzky adopted. people were quick to scoff the fact that taking players based on loyalty was the sure thing to do, but in the end it blew up in canadas face. now this idea is quickly growing.

Crosbyfan

02-23-2006, 03:15 PM

Cawz

02-23-2006, 03:20 PM

3. Coaching Staff- I hate Toronto so Quinn should get the boot. However I think a different apporach is needed. Maybe a coach that sole purpose throughout the year is to concentrate on Team Canada.

4. Bertuzzi and Nash. Both sucked. Dumb penatlies. I wonder if Gretz was thinking that Bertuzzi would contribute like Fluery did. Hey everyone deserves a second chance UMMM WRONG!!!!

5. Leadership- I don't feel like a goalie can lead a team so with that said Team Canada had no leaders. No Super Mario in the locker room. I guarantee that if Super Mario was in the locker room their would have been a different outcome. And lets face facts; Sakic is not a leader at least for Team Canada. Yes he is a Minnesota Wild killer but not very vocal.
3. Agree. I wonder if Quinn could comment on all the opponants they were facing, and what stategies they were going to employ. How much scouting was done?

4. Many (including myself) said Bertuzzi shouldnt have been there. Now the people who disagreed can see why. Same for McCabe. Neither should have been there, and thats not hindsight. Many people said that from the start.

5. And what would Mario do? High five them all when they come into the dressing room? Leadership comes from on the ice, not in the dressign room. With no Mario and no Stevie Y, the leadership was lacking. But its pretty obvious that theres a big gap in leadership after Gretzky, Yzerman and Lemiuex. Besides Sakic, who can be relied on?

Canada is lacking in elite high-end talent, coupled with leadership. Messier is gone, Wayne and Mario are gone, Stevie Y is gone. Now we have Sakic and... who? Heatley? Thornton? Iginla? None of these guys belong in the same category as the aforementioned. Maybe Heatley eventually, or maybe we just have to wait for Crosby.

Phanuthier*

02-23-2006, 04:14 PM

Why do you think that Spezza, Staal & Crosby would of played better than Iginla, Sakic & Gagne?

As far as Iginla is concerned, I would have rather seen them go with the hot hand (Staal) then someone who stumbled his way into the tournament (Iginla). I wondered aloud over a month ago if Iginla should even be on the team the way he didn't seem motivated enough to play for the Flames. St Louis? Struggled this year as well, while Tanguay held the hot hand. Yet we stayed with St Louis. Bertuzzi? Hasn't done crap all in what, 4 years? The only stats he had since that one great season was a major suspension, yet Gretz gambled on him and took a sleep walking Bertuzzi over a hot hand in, say, Spezza.

The common theme is, going into the tournament, we took a struggling team who couldn't have tripped over their feet enough on their way to Turin. As someone mentioned above, 6 of the top 10 scorer's were left off the tournament, and I would have been most of them (minus Savard). In a 2 week tournament that runs on emotion this high, I wanna see CONFIDENCE going into the tournament, and 75% of our team didn't have it. It might be easy to second guess, but I almost wonder if a guy like Horcoff might have been a better choice then a guy like Iginla.

mncdn

02-23-2006, 05:09 PM

5. And what would Mario do? High five them all when they come into the dressing room? Leadership comes from on the ice, not in the dressign room. With no Mario and no Stevie Y, the leadership was lacking. But its pretty obvious that theres a big gap in leadership after Gretzky, Yzerman and Lemiuex. Besides Sakic, who can be relied on?

The thing is that if Mario steps on the ice he automatically creates space. People respect the greats and he wouldn't have to do much. Just like 2002. Instead of shooting himself he let the puck slide through his legs (Greatest Assist in HISTORY). I don;t really know how to explain it but even if Gretzky laced em up he would be able to spark and lead the team.

Cawz

02-23-2006, 05:19 PM

The thing is that if Mario steps on the ice he automatically creates space. People respect the greats and he wouldn't have to do much. Just like 2002. Instead of shooting himself he let the puck slide through his legs (Greatest Assist in HISTORY). I don;t really know how to explain it but even if Gretzky laced em up he would be able to spark and lead the team.Ya, but the guy I was responding to was talking about Mario in the Locker room. Oh, that was you. Well, I thought that was what you meant. Marios retired, so I imagine he would be out of shape and a shadow of his former self.

If Mario felt he could have contributed, I'm sure he would have been there. If not, then he would not have helped the team.

mooseOAK

02-23-2006, 05:57 PM

Supplying offence is not a role, it's the cumulative goal that is only achieved by everyone executing their respective roles on the ice. Any clown can put on a suit and tell players to go out and "supply offence"... what does that mean? What kind of game was Canada trying to play? Strong forecheck? Neutral zone pressure? Quick transition? It hardly seemed apparent. And what about when your opponents have figured out ways to defend against that kind of abstract approach to scoring? Do the coaches just throw up their hands?

A team without focus and direction - regardless of talent - is a team that's going to look disorganized and lost on the ice... and not surprisingly that's precisely what we got. Darryl Sutter was bang on when he said that the team had the wrong game plan (if any) from the get-go - and that's not so much a criticism of the players or of the team that Gretzky put on the ice, but rather a pretty direct criticism of the coaching staff from a well-respected coach. Ultimately, it's the coaches' job to prepare the team for the games and for the tournament... and I would have to say that there was a colossal failure in this regard.
I guess that by default you are saying that the 2002 gold medal and the World Cup victories were entirely due to the Quinn. That is no more true than saying this loss was due to him also. Lack of execution by the players of the game plan, opposite for the wins, was the case.

David

02-23-2006, 08:22 PM

What Canada needed was a team full of Saku Koivus.

Instead, what we got was a room full of Joe Thorntons. :shakehead

And you know EXACTLY what I mean...in every aspect!

Janney17

02-23-2006, 11:08 PM

I think one concern is the lack of players admitting that they aren't contributing. Pronger played horrible and maybe at some point the coaches should have stepped in and said maybe you should sit out with your injury and go to the taxi squad. There were also some forwards with nagging injuries who didn't show up to play who could have been replaced. There was too much pride and egos on the ice that noone wanted to step aside despite their play on the ice and the coaching staff has there hands tied, as the NHLPA controls World Tourneys, especially with Canada. These are star players worried more about saving face then maybe stepping aside and admitting that a Dan Boyle could be more beneficial to the team right now.

Another factor is that alot of Canadian players don't look at this Tourney the way Europeans might, therefore it is harder to elevate their game. Like Sakic said in his interview,"winning the Olympic gold is almost up there with winning the Stanley Cup." That being said who wants to give it their all in a tourney that takes runner up to what you consider to be a more important title to play for.

I also think playing for Canada in these World Tourney's has started to lose it's appeal. When Gretzky and Lemieux did it there was one Tourney and that was the Canada Cup. Now there is the World Cup and the Olympics. Not too mention with the lock out and the amount of expansion more and more Canadian players are playing in the WHC than one would have been accustumed to in the 80's/early 90's.