If you love the USA

You have to be angry at Don Waddell and Peter Laviolette.

They put politics ahead of pride in their country and put somebody they were familiar with in the starting role instead of the best available player.

Aleksandrs Nizivijs, Atvars Tribuncovs, and Herberts Vasiljevs embarrased our country and Laviolette's golden boy. This is one of the most disgraceful days in the history of USA hockey.

I wanted USA to win in the worst way, regardless of how I felt about Miller's exclusion. I never expected it to be this bad. I hope they turn it around, but one thing is for sure: these two won't be leading the team again.

Miller wasn't the goalie everyone knows him for now when they made up this team. Laviolette is the worst coach ever, yes, and this team is missing a few key points that are just as evident as ever in this game. Leetch not being there on defense is the single most discraceful mistake on the part of the these clowns running the team. Average age must be in the 30s and it shows. Grahame shouldn't be starting and Esche better be in net the rest of the way.

I think you are jumping the gun on this one. Jet lag is a killer, IMO USA reeked of jet lag and tiredness in general today.

I think you are jumping the gun on this one. Jet lag is a killer, IMO USA reeked of jet lag and tiredness in general today.

No, they reeked of three career nothings beating "the best" goalie in the US like a rented mule.

I think DiPietro should start the next game, I'm not so sure Esche is any better than Grahame. At least DiPietro can pull a save or two out of his ***, which is what USA needs right now.

Also, Canada didn't seem to have any problems with "jet lag."

I'd like to think Esche doesn't start a game after some of his comments. Let DiPietro play the next one.

Even though I'm definetly not a fan of USA Hockey, its just one game, the first game, its hard for north American teams to gel and make a bunch of adjustments, I don't think its time to push the panic button yet.

No, they reeked of three career nothings beating "the best" goalie in the US like a rented mule.

I think DiPietro should start the next game, I'm not so sure Esche is any better than Grahame. At least DiPietro can pull a save or two out of his ***, which is what USA needs right now.

Also, Canada didn't seem to have any problems with "jet lag."

Obviously you didn't see or listen to Canada's game because they played just as poorly as the US did.

Choosing between Esche, DiPietro, and Grahame. Looks like a lose-lose-lose situation. That's the fault of Waddell. Maybe Miller wasn't as hot as he is now when they made the team, but Esche wasn't healthy, and DiPietro was flat out sucking. However, that is no excuse to lose to Latvia. I'm not knocking on Latvia, but to score only 3 goals against them is pathetic. I love ex-Shark Arturs Irbe, but something went wrong for him to completely shut down the US Olympic Hockey team.

Yes Canada played as bad as the US did, but did they lose? No, they won convincingly, at least on the scoreboard. Comparing the two performances isn't possible, because Canada spanked Italy despite playing a bad game, and the US lost to Latvia.

Obviously you didn't see or listen to Canada's game because they played just as poorly as the US did.

I didn't see the US game, but Canada dominated Italy, they were never really in the game.

Obviously you didn't see or listen to Canada's game because they played just as poorly as the US did.
Actually, Canada dominated the second and third periods after they woke up. It was pure domination after the first on Canada's part.

No, they reeked of three career nothings beating "the best" goalie in the US like a rented mule.

I think DiPietro should start the next game, I'm not so sure Esche is any better than Grahame. At least DiPietro can pull a save or two out of his ***, which is what USA needs right now.

Also, Canada didn't seem to have any problems with "jet lag."
From what I heard most of the USA team just arrived yesterday, due to the snowstorm we had in the east. I believe Canada arrived earlier and had a little more time to adjust and sleep (if I'm completely wrong let me know)

I'm not thrilled with the goaltending either, but I don't think we've seen the best of team USA. The Latvians seemed to be hungry and have a jump to their game, and Archie was typical Archie moments of brilliance.

Ryan Miller was not picked because he was injured



How many times does this need to be said? Yes, Esche did get hurt, but it was only under his discretion that he could pull out.

regardless, the fact remains: Canada played a poor game and still won 7-2. The USA played a poor game and tied 3-3. The States will be lucky to finish Top 5 this year, I said it before and you can quote me on it.

regardless, the fact remains: Canada played a poor game and still won 7-2. The USA played a poor game and tied 3-3. The States will be lucky to finish Top 5 this year, I said it before and you can quote me on it.


The team wasn't good enough to begin with, regardless of who the goalie is.



It's a bit embarassing, a bit unexpected, but most of us here knew that Latvia wasn't a bunch of pushovers. Latvia is not a team who is just happy to be here like Kazakhstan and Italy are.

You have to be angry at Don Waddell and Peter Laviolette.

They put politics ahead of pride in their country and put somebody they were familiar with in the starting role instead of the best available player.

Aleksandrs Nizivijs, Atvars Tribuncovs, and Herberts Vasiljevs embarrased our country and Laviolette's golden boy. This is one of the most disgraceful days in the history of USA hockey.

I wanted USA to win in the worst way, regardless of how I felt about Miller's exclusion. I never expected it to be this bad. I hope they turn it around, but one thing is for sure: these two won't be leading the team again.

:banghead: Jesus christ I'm sick of these Ryan Miller threads. He's not on the team. Deal with it. The US can win with what they have--it's gonna take a helluva effort but they are good enough to medal. Just put your homerism aside for a few weeks.

As for Laviolette, the "worst coach ever," he's already won an AHL title, turned around the worst franchise in hockey at the time on Long Island and turned around another awful team in Carolina this year. In fact, if the season ended today he would probably win the Jack Adams.

The point is, if you are gonna rip on somebody at least make some sense.

Ryan Miller was not picked because he was injured



How many times does this need to be said? Yes, Esche did get hurt, but it was only under his discretion that he could pull out.

Esche had a nagging groin injury at the time of selection and Miller was 100% healthy.

Esche had a nagging groin injury at the time of selection and Miller was 100% healthy.


Miller was injured with a wrist injury. at the time Esche was not going to miss a lot of time while Miller was out indefinetaly. I know this because I was at the Flyers game vs. Buffalo the night the team was announced and Miller was not even dressed and wasn't in the warm up.

:banghead: Jesus christ I'm sick of these Ryan Miller threads.

I'm sorry, this is a USA hockey thread. There's no need for your hatred of Ryan Miller to invade it. This isn't Lundqvist v. Miller, this is USA v. The World and how we can fix the problems we saw in our first olympic event.

Maybe Miller wasn't as hot as he is now when they made the team, but Esche wasn't healthy, and DiPietro was flat out sucking.

It wasn't about being hot or not, Miller wasn't playing. It's really pretty simple. And DiPietro was actually playing quite well at the point where he was selected--it's not a coincidence that until recently he was the assured starter.

Also, I have another question: Where did the perception of John Grahame as Laviolette's "Golden Boy," as suggested by sabersrat, come from? Has Laviolette even coached Grahame before?

Miller was injured with a wrist injury. at the time Esche was not going to miss a lot of time while Miller was out indefinetaly. I know this because I was at the Flyers game vs. Buffalo the night the team was announced and Miller was not even dressed and wasn't in the warm up.

Yeah, you are right. But Miller was projected to return WELL before the Olympics and had been playing very well before the injury. Esche has a nagging groin injury that still has not gone away.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/columnists/13865219.htm

It wasn't about being hot or not, Miller wasn't playing. It's really pretty simple. And DiPietro was actually playing quite well at the point where he was selected--it's not a coincidence that until recently he was the assured starter.

Also, I have another question: Where did the perception of John Grahame as Laviolette's "Golden Boy," as suggested by sabersrat, come from? Has Laviolette even coached Grahame before?

Yep, in the AHL.

Miller was injured with a wrist injury. at the time Esche was not going to miss a lot of time while Miller was out indefinetaly. I know this because I was at the Flyers game vs. Buffalo the night the team was announced and Miller was not even dressed and wasn't in the warm up.

Wow. You sure about that?

A) Miller neever hurt his wrist.

B) Miller's 2-0 against Philly (http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/scoresstats/boxscoredetailNEWRULES.asp?EventID=3114)

Also, I have another question: Where did the perception of John Grahame as Laviolette's "Golden Boy," as suggested by sabersrat, come from? Has Laviolette even coached Grahame before?

Yes, they won a championship together in the AHL, I believe.

I'm sorry, this is a USA hockey thread. There's no need for your hatred of Ryan Miller to invade it. This isn't Lundqvist v. Miller, this is USA v. The World and how we can fix the problems we saw in our first olympic event.

:eek: You're accusing me of bias clouding my judgement? You?

I don't know what Lundqvist vs. Miller thread you're talking about, but I am talking about how you and a group of fans like you start 3 threads a day about how Ryan Miller is the best goalie in hockey and how the US are idiots for not making him the starter even though he's not on the team.

He didn't make the team because he was injured. He is not on the team now. He won't be on the team in 5 minutes. Stop it with the Miller love, it's gotten to the point where it's dowright annoying--especially when you start chiding other posters for bias.

As a Bflo fan I'm glad Miller isn't there. Miller could let in three goals just as easily as any of those others. I also can see the logic in him not being there, there wasn't a heck of a lot of time to evaluate his play to see if he was ready.

I am disappointed with the team they iced though. This is crop of players is from a dry spell in USA hockey, and I was under the impression that a new young crop was coming up that they were going to ice for this competition. Who cares if they would have been inexperienced, put the young guys out there and see what they can do. They put guys like Chelios on the team for "leadership". Well, what about guys like Rolston and Drury? They could fill that role.

Dipietro has been playing pretty well lately, and perhaps he can steel a couple games. Who knows?

USA reeked of jet lag and tiredness in general today.

I think you could say the same thing about Team Canada. If it wasn't for Jet Lag and the strong play of Jason Muzzati, I have absolutely no doubts in my mind that Canada would've hit double digits in that game.

Also, I have another question: Where did the perception of John Grahame as Laviolette's "Golden Boy," as suggested by sabersrat, come from? Has Laviolette even coached Grahame before?

Grahame was on an AHL team that Laviolette coached. We all know Miller should be on the team.

If the US can only score 3 goals against Latvia and gives up several odd-man rushes to Latvia, then they have bigger problems than goaltending the rest of the tournament.

USA wins today with Miller.

USA wins today with Miller.

Miller plays D now?

Moot point :p:



besides Irbe made 39 saves which isnt shabby by any NHL standards

While Team USA needs to back away from the buffet table and are a little long in the tooth I wouldn't write them off just yet. They were jet laggin for sure and they also ran into a hot goalie. Irbe had 39 saves and was big in the third which the US pretty much dominated. No excuses really, Canada won when they had to and the US couldn't finish, plain and simple.
I watched the Canada game and it was a great game until after the 5 minute mark of the 2nd period. Even the commentators repeatedly said the Italy team was well coached and played as a unit. After that Canada never looked back.

Ah, the babies are in full cry.

A disappointing tie, but not necessarily indicative of anything. The U.S. played well enough to win by four goals. Bad bounces, a few sloppy miscues, and none of it was Grahame's fault. Sh-- happens. The U.S. needs to put this behind them and handle their business against Kazakhstan.

USA goaltending will not be a problem....





In future games when Montoya is the #1.

Wow. You sure about that?

A) Miller neever hurt his wrist.

B) Miller's 2-0 against Philly.

1st win a shootout win, not really a big achievement there. Nothing really says he is god's gift to American hockey, sorry. :dunno:

The States will be lucky to finish Top 5 this year, I said it before and you can quote me on it.

That's if anyone cares about what you said. :sarcasm:

If you love the USA, just keep faith at least until the end of the round robin. ;)

It ain't over till it's over.

1st win a shootout win, not really a big achievement there. Nothing really says he is god's gift to American hockey, sorry. :dunno:

That wasn't the point of the post. The point was to show that Miller played the game in Philadelphia.

1st win a shootout win, not really a big achievement there. Nothing really says he is god's gift to American hockey, sorry. :dunno:

You don't think it's a big achivemnent to make 33/34 saves, win the shootout, and be named the game's first star all in a game where you're "out indefinetaly" and "not even dressed"?

That was one of numerous outstanding performances he's had this year, but my point wasn't that that game should put him on the team or that he's "god's gift to American hockey".

It's just showing that GKJ continues to make factually incorrect statements as to why Miller was left off the team.

It's not because of an injury, it's because of politics.

I am SO SICK of all this Ryan Miller talk. Has he played better than the 3 goalies currently on the team? Absolutely, I don't think you'd find anyone to disagree with that. However, at the time of the team selection, he was just getting over an injury, and the US committee wasn't sure how he would come back from it. Also, he's got less experience than any of the goalies currently named. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is just a rookie, while all 3 of the current US goalies have been in the league for a few years, and DiPietro and Esche have both represented the US in international competition.

You know who else would be better than either Grahame, DiPietro, or Esche? Tim Thomas, who has been unbelievable for Boston. But I don't hear anyone whining about him not being selected. Maybe it's because he's in the same situation - no one knew that these goalies would be playing so well when they had to select the team. Hindsight is 20/20.

"If you love the USA" - why don't you cheer for the guys over there? There have been months to debate about who should or shouldn't be there, it's been beaten to death, how about we focus on the games?

Yeah, you are right. But Miller was projected to return WELL before the Olympics and had been playing very well before the injury. Esche has a nagging groin injury that still has not gone away.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/columnists/13865219.htm


I'd be curious to see how many of your near 130 posts are in some involving Ryan Miller, and the lack of respect he gets from the NHL, fans, HFboards, Don Waddell, the clergy, etc....

I'd be curious to see how many of your near 130 posts are in some involving Ryan Miller, and the lack of respect he gets from the NHL, fans, HFboards, Don Waddell, the clergy, etc....

There is a search posts by user feature if you'd like to use it.

I'm sure you knew that already though.

Is it normal for moderators to make personal statements off the topic of the thread?

I am SO SICK of all this Ryan Miller talk. Has he played better than the 3 goalies currently on the team? Absolutely, I don't think you'd find anyone to disagree with that. However, at the time of the team selection, he was just getting over an injury, and the US committee wasn't sure how he would come back from it. Also, he's got less experience than any of the goalies currently named. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is just a rookie, while all 3 of the current US goalies have been in the league for a few years, and DiPietro and Esche have both represented the US in international competition.

You know who else would be better than either Grahame, DiPietro, or Esche? Tim Thomas, who has been unbelievable for Boston. But I don't hear anyone whining about him not being selected. Maybe it's because he's in the same situation - no one knew that these goalies would be playing so well when they had to select the team. Hindsight is 20/20.

"If you love the USA" - why don't you cheer for the guys over there? There have been months to debate about who should or shouldn't be there, it's been beaten to death, how about we focus on the games?



Quoted and colored for emphasis

I am SO SICK of all this Ryan Miller talk. Has he played better than the 3 goalies currently on the team? Absolutely, I don't think you'd find anyone to disagree with that. However, at the time of the team selection, he was just getting over an injury, and the US committee wasn't sure how he would come back from it. Also, he's got less experience than any of the goalies currently named. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is just a rookie, while all 3 of the current US goalies have been in the league for a few years, and DiPietro and Esche have both represented the US in international competition.

You know who else would be better than either Grahame, DiPietro, or Esche? Tim Thomas, who has been unbelievable for Boston. But I don't hear anyone whining about him not being selected. Maybe it's because he's in the same situation - no one knew that these goalies would be playing so well when they had to select the team. Hindsight is 20/20.

"If you love the USA" - why don't you cheer for the guys over there? There have been months to debate about who should or shouldn't be there, it's been beaten to death, how about we focus on the games?

Best post ever. GO USA!

I'm tired of the Miller threads.

Of course he deserved to be named, but so did Eric Staal for Canada.

Miller plays D now?

Moot point :p:



besides Irbe made 39 saves which isnt shabby by any NHL standards
Yeah, Aaron Miller right? :D

You have to be angry at Don Waddell and Peter Laviolette.

They put politics ahead of pride in their country and put somebody they were familiar with in the starting role instead of the best available player.

Aleksandrs Nizivijs, Atvars Tribuncovs, and Herberts Vasiljevs embarrased our country and Laviolette's golden boy. This is one of the most disgraceful days in the history of USA hockey.

I wanted USA to win in the worst way, regardless of how I felt about Miller's exclusion. I never expected it to be this bad. I hope they turn it around, but one thing is for sure: these two won't be leading the team again.
http://fig.cox.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/neuro/c7.48.4.kneejerk.jpg

/god i'm so happy images are enabled again

You have to be angry at Don Waddell and Peter Laviolette.

They put politics ahead of pride in their country and put somebody they were familiar with in the starting role instead of the best available player.

Aleksandrs Nizivijs, Atvars Tribuncovs, and Herberts Vasiljevs embarrased our country and Laviolette's golden boy. This is one of the most disgraceful days in the history of USA hockey.

I wanted USA to win in the worst way, regardless of how I felt about Miller's exclusion. I never expected it to be this bad. I hope they turn it around, but one thing is for sure: these two won't be leading the team again.
How about they just don't have a very strong team this year? Shrug. It happens. They're likely to improve in the next few games, but even so, they're not pegged to medal in these games.

If you love the USA... I think you can get over the performance of the hockey team. Seriously, man. It's just hockey. We all enjoy watching it... but it's just hockey. Perspective is your friend.

Miller should be there. Yes. And I made mention of that in the GDT. But, the defense let them down today and looked incredibly slow. Why Hatcher is there, I may never know. He looked terrible. The defense cost them that tie. Oh, and the powerplay going 1 for the century. On an all-star team, you'd expect the PP to capitalize.

Props to Latvia though. They played great positionally and they really suffocated the passing lanes.

I wanted USA to win in the worst way, regardless of how I felt about Miller's exclusion. I never expected it to be this bad. I hope they turn it around, but one thing is for sure: these two won't be leading the team again.

Wow...and the rest of your posts in this thread are ALL about Miller... :shakehead

One should cheer for the country, not the individual players.

Miller wasn't the goalie everyone knows him for now when they made up this team. Laviolette is the worst coach ever, yes, and this team is missing a few key points that are just as evident as ever in this game. Leetch not being there on defense is the single most discraceful mistake on the part of the these clowns running the team. Average age must be in the 30s and it shows. Grahame shouldn't be starting and Esche better be in net the rest of the way.

Gee...I wonder if this is the anti-Islanders/former Islanders on the US squad and the current or former Rangers left off it post? :help:

Grahame got scored on by being screened, on a 3 on 1 from a no-call from a check to the back, and an amazing shot that went right over his head, hit the crossbar, and went in.

IMO opinion he couldn't have stopped either of those, and neither could have the other two goalies.

He looked good and made some really good saves, it's moreso our defense that let those in, not Grahame.

Miller was injured with a wrist injury. at the time Esche was not going to miss a lot of time while Miller was out indefinetaly. I know this because I was at the Flyers game vs. Buffalo the night the team was announced and Miller was not even dressed and wasn't in the warm up.
miller's started both games Buffalo's played against Philly this year....the 1st one was his first game back.

Did I misunderstand your statement?

Grahame got scored on by being screened, on a 3 on 1 from a no-call from a check to the back, and an amazing shot that went right over his head, hit the crossbar, and went in.

IMO opinion he couldn't have stopped either of those, and neither could have the other two goalies.

He looked good and made some really good saves, it's moreso our defense that let those in, not Grahame.
If you're screened....5-hole goals shouldn't happen. You're supposed to close up and go into butterfly, make yourself as big as possible with no holes when you know the shot is coming and you can't see it.

However, that is no excuse to lose to Latvia. and the US lost to Latvia.

When did the US lose to Latvia as you pointed out, not once, but twice, in your diatribe?

The USA tying Latvia had nothing to do with the goaltender. People should really drop the Ryan Miller business. The bottom line is that the USA, with all of their scoring talent, should've scored more than only 3 goals against Latvia. I see the issue as chemistry and preparedness. If they don't beat Kazakhstan handedly, then I'd point fingers.

There is a search posts by user feature if you'd like to use it.

I'm sure you knew that already though.

Is it normal for moderators to make personal statements off the topic of the thread?
It is topical, completely. You started another thread bemoaning the fact that Miller was not initially named and that he's not starting. I just made a casual observation.

I agree, drop the Miller argument. Today's tie was a team tie - not just the goaltender's fault. I'd add jet lag in to equation as most of the US players did not arrive until Tuesday. Let's see how the next game goes, then start pointing fingers again.

Miller wasn't the goalie everyone knows him for now when they made up this team. Laviolette is the worst coach ever, yes, and this team is missing a few key points that are just as evident as ever in this game. Leetch not being there on defense is the single most discraceful mistake on the part of the these clowns running the team. Average age must be in the 30s and it shows. Grahame shouldn't be starting and Esche better be in net the rest of the way.

Ok, you say that the team is old and it shows. And then you say that Leetch should be on it?

That doesnt make any sense. Sure, he is younger than Chelios. But Chelios and Hatcher are the only defensmen on this team with any kind of grit. Miller's injury was a killer, IMO. Leetch wouldnt make a difference on this team. Not at this point in his career.

"If you love the USA" - why don't you cheer for the guys over there? There have been months to debate about who should or shouldn't be there, it's been beaten to death, how about we focus on the games?

:clap:

Right on the money!

Latvia played well. The US looked rusty. Big deal, it happens.

There is still alot of hockey left to play.

Yeah, Laviolette is a terrible coach... no wonder he is in top spot in the NHL.

Jamie Langs. Jay Pandolfo. Two names that should have been on this roster. You want a solution for Team USA? Put more Devils on the roster. Paul Martin. David Hale. Don't sit Rafalski.


When Esche was asked in 2004 who he wanted in front of him for the tournament on defense, his response was "Anyone from New Jersey"

Jamie Langs. Jay Pandolfo. Two names that should have been on this roster. You want a solution for Team USA? Put more Devils on the roster. Paul Martin. David Hale. Don't sit Rafalski.


When Esche was asked in 2004 who he wanted in front of him for the tournament on defense, his response was "Anyone from New Jersey"

Wow...could you possibly be any more of a homer?

And Rafalski sat out with a minor injury. Atleast from what I have heard. He wasnt a healthy scratch or anything like that.

Jamie Langs. Jay Pandolfo. Two names that should have been on this roster. You want a solution for Team USA? Put more Devils on the roster. Paul Martin. David Hale. Don't sit Rafalski.


When Esche was asked in 2004 who he wanted in front of him for the tournament on defense, his response was "Anyone from New Jersey"


I want to make fun of you...but....your "Luke" avatar prohibits me from doing so.

Aleksandrs Nizivijs, Atvars Tribuncovs, and Herberts Vasiljevs embarrased our country and Laviolette's golden boy. This is one of the most disgraceful days in the history of USA hockey.

The US dominated Latvia other than the score.

What exactly did Grahame do so badly? He gave up one bad rebound? The deflection goal would have been tough on any goalie, and the 2 on 1 was a perfectly placed shot by the Latvian.

Perhaps later in the tournament the Millerites will have some legitimate beef with US goaltending, but not after this game.

Miller was injured with a wrist injury. at the time Esche was not going to miss a lot of time while Miller was out indefinetaly. I know this because I was at the Flyers game vs. Buffalo the night the team was announced and Miller was not even dressed and wasn't in the warm up.

Miller started that game for the Sabres, they won 2-1 in a SO ... That's the game in question, right?

But yeah, he was injured when he was suppose to be making his case for the team, I'm not really blaming Waddell on that alone, I just think some of Esche's comments were out of place, and that alone should have given Waddell food for thought.

As for Latvia, they're a notch above Italy and Kazakhstan, you can compare them to Germany, who had a good game vs the Czechs, even without their two best forwards in Hecht and Sturm.
Germany and Latvia can compete with the top teams if the top teams don't have time to build chemistry and they get off the plane the day before the game. And it showed.
Latvia has a goalie who was a solid #1 in the NHL, two NHL defensemen (both real good in their own way) and a bunch of guys playing in the RSL and the DSL.
If you want to compare, they're probably what a top AHL team is to a good NHL team, in terms of where they are compared to the big 7. So, while they will lost a vast majority of games, and most of them won't be even close, they can make an upset sometimes.
A few years ago, IIRC, they beat a Russian team filled with big names in the World Championship in Russia.

No reason to panic for the USA yet, IMO.

The US dominated Latvia other than the score.

What exactly did Grahame do so badly? He gave up one bad rebound? The deflection goal would have been tough on any goalie, and the 2 on 1 was a perfectly placed shot by the Latvian.

Perhaps later in the tournament the Millerites will have some legitimate beef with US goaltending, but not after this game.

I am a Millerite and just got back from our meeting. We have agreed to continue to cheer for the US but only for now. BTW Chris Drury should get more ice time and be named captain.

I don't think Grahame played any worse than the rest of the team.

I heard Melrose saying how the fact that everyone was delayed, and had the issues with actually getting over there would have only meant something if they lost to a team like Sweden or Russia. I think that all the delays had a lot to do with the overall effort of the team today.

All this Miller talk is just getting disgusting. Yes, he should have been on the team. You're not going to find many who won't agree with that, but he ISN'T. That needs to be accepted. There are some people who just don't seem to understand that.

The team as a whole doesn't have what it takes to compete with the Russias, Canadas, and Czechs of the world. Someone else in goal won't change that. Regardless of what your impression might be.

I still think Grahame is the best option of those at the disposal of the US. The only way two of those goals get stopped is by a miracle. The Rick should start the next game, and then they should go from there.

Let's not take away from Irbe either. He was fantastic.

I still think Grahame is the best option of those at the disposal of the US. The only way two of those goals get stopped is by a miracle. The Rick should start the next game, and then they should go from there.

This is exactly what drives me crazy. It would have taken far from a miracle to stop any of the goals. He was barely tested all game.

:banghead: Jesus christ I'm sick of these Ryan Miller threads. He's not on the team. Deal with it.
You and me both. I just noticed this thread and the level of bitterness is just astounding!! Pathetic, laughable and very very sad. Anyone who watched that game and blames Grahame for the tie really has no clue what they were looking at. :shakehead

Unless you're planning on hiring someone to pull a Tonya Harding on one of the goalies that are on the roster, grow up and get over it.

You and me both. I just noticed this thread and the level of bitterness is just astounding!! Pathetic, laughable and very very sad. Anyone who watched that game and blames Grahame for the tie really has no clue what they were looking at. :shakehead

Unless you're planning on hiring someone to pull a Tonya Harding on one of the goalies that are on the roster, grow up and get over it.

2 were soft. You can criticize Grahame, it is allowed. You don't have to be bitter either to do it. The team struggled for obvious reasons.... got to Italy the night before and were exhausted and looked like a team that hadn't played together before, which there were. Regroup against the Khazaks and then get into the teeth of the early schedule. Millerite #35 signing off

USA :handclap: USA :handclap: USA :handclap: USA

The only problem I've had with the complaints are that the Miller fans are ignoring the defensive problems (multiple odd man rushes), the offense not scoring on Latvia with 2 NHL defenseman, and not giving credit to Grahame for making some key saves (save on the odd man rush just before the first US goal and another odd man rush save when it was 3-2 to keep the US in the game) while pinning the tie completely on Grahame. You can have your gripes with Grahame, but there were other problems yesterday for the US that should be looked at not just goaltending. I think we all agree Miller should be there, but there's nothing any of us can do about it. Just a lot of wasted energy complaining about him not being there. If Esche stays home like he said he was going to after he learned he was 3rd string, the problem would be solved.

If they lay an egg against Kazakhstan tonight, I'll start to worry. Latvia played a spirited game yesterday and with the exception of a few minutes in the second, Team USA dominated that game. If they get two points tonight, I think they can get through without a problem if they can get 3 or 4 points in the final three games against the Group B's top tier.

I'm glad Miller isn't on Team USA... the team is a joke anyway.....

Who wants our hot goalie getting his confidence shaken having to play behind that team.....

2 were soft. You can criticize Grahame, it is allowed.

Which ones?

The one where a rebound went right on the stick of a waiting Latvian, the deflection in front that changed a long shot from the blue line right in front of him, or the laser from inside the circle to the top corner on a 2 on 1?

Irbe is the one who gave up two soft goals.

The only problem I've had with the complaints are that the Miller fans are ignoring the defensive problems (multiple odd man rushes), the offense not scoring on Latvia with 2 NHL defenseman, and not giving credit to Grahame for making some key saves (save on the odd man rush just before the first US goal and another odd man rush save when it was 3-2 to keep the US in the game) while pinning the tie completely on Grahame. You can have your gripes with Grahame, but there were other problems yesterday for the US that should be looked at not just goaltending. I think we all agree Miller should be there, but there's nothing any of us can do about it. Just a lot of wasted energy complaining about him not being there. If Esche stays home like he said he was going to after he learned he was 3rd string, the problem would be solved.
:handclap: That sums it up. I don't care if people criticize Grahame (no one does it more than Tampa fans, duh) as long as it's LEGITIMATE. 90% of this thread is more of the same old whining about Miller not being there and criticizing Grahame because he's not Miller. The thought of Grahame being anyone's "golden boy" and being on the team due to "politics" are both just hilarious. From reading some of the threads on here lately, you'd think Miller is on par with Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, etc. Let's go for some perspective and objectivity.

Irbe is the one who gave up two soft goals.
True true. I can't believe the ones that actually went by him when compared to some of the stops he was making.

What's the old saying, you never lose on a second guess? It's real easy to say that Miller or anyone would have done better because they didn't play. The reality is that Miller might have had a shut out or he might have given up a dozen goals in his worst game of the year. We will never know what he would have done.

We do know that Grahame had a good, not outstanding, not awful game. He didn't steal one and he wasn't the reason the USA tied the game. Frankly the USA isn't as strong in goal as many of the other teams in the Olympics with or without Miller.

Leetch not being there on defense is the single most discraceful mistake on the part of the these clowns running the team. Average age must be in the 30s and it shows.

Leetch is 36 and you want him and a youth movement? Make up your mind, man.

I'm glad Miller isn't on Team USA... the team is a joke anyway.....

Who wants our hot goalie getting his confidence shaken having to play behind that team.....


Good, then we're in agreement. You're glad Miller isn't there, and so are we. No more talk about the subject, then?

Good, then we're in agreement. You're glad Miller isn't there, and so are we. No more talk about the subject, then?


whatever... i didn't start it.

Which ones?

The one where a rebound went right on the stick of a waiting Latvian, the deflection in front that changed a long shot from the blue line right in front of him, or the laser from inside the circle to the top corner on a 2 on 1?

Irbe is the one who gave up two soft goals.


I have learned in this goalie debate that Miller, Dipietro, Grahame and to a lesser extent Esche all have devoted or blindly supportive fans. Who feel that the goalie they cheer for can do no wrong. I'm not going to try to convince you of what I thought were soft goals, it would be a waste of time. We would end up arguing in circles.
I will say that Ricky's pads were sweet! :yo:

USA :handclap: USA :handclap: USA :handclap: USA

I think DiPietro has earned another start. What do you think?

I think DiPietro has earned another start. What do you think?

Personally, I think Grahame deserves another shot with a rested awake team in front of him.

Personally, I think Grahame deserves another shot with a rested awake team in front of him.

Somehow I'm not surprised you think that ;)

I think Team USA deserves a shot at a medal and the best available player should be in the net.

Whoever starts has to wear Ricky's USA flag equipment. :yo:

Somehow I'm not surprised you think that ;)
Somehow I'm not surprised at what you posted either.

Somehow I'm not surprised you think that ;)

I think Team USA deserves a shot at a medal and the best available player should be in the net.

You are confusing me here, yesterday you were not happy with the goaltending, and wanted someone else, and today, you have settled on a starter based on one game against one of the weaker opponents? :dunno:

Whoever starts has to wear Ricky's USA flag equipment. :yo:
Haha, I agree, he's got some hot pads. I want him in goal just so we get to see them again.

You are confusing me here, yesterday you were not happy with the goaltending, and wanted someone else, and today, you have settled on a starter based on one game against one of the weaker opponents? :dunno:

That's exactly right. I was unhappy with 88% of shots stopped against a bad team, and pleased with 92% of shots stopped against a bad team.

What's the old saying, you never lose on a second guess? It's real easy to say that Miller or anyone would have done better because they didn't play. The reality is that Miller might have had a shut out or he might have given up a dozen goals in his worst game of the year. We will never know what he would have done.

We do know that Grahame had a good, not outstanding, not awful game. He didn't steal one and he wasn't the reason the USA tied the game. Frankly the USA isn't as strong in goal as many of the other teams in the Olympics with or without Miller.

Team USA goaltending is better than:

Finland
Germany
Italy
Russia
Latvia
Kazakhstan
Slovakia

More than half of the teams I'd say Team USA is better than in goal. And please do not try and say Russia or Germany as a team in goal are better than the US.

More than half of the teams I'd say Team USA is better than in goal. And please do not try and say Russia or Germany as a team in goal are better than the US.

In a tandem, US is better than Germany, but I'd rather have Kolzig over any of the 3 on the USA squad. He's shown he can be a very good netminder. I would not take USA's goaltending over Russia's. Nabakov is the best of the bunch and I think Bryzgalov is on par with the USA netminders.

Wow. You sure about that?

A) Miller neever hurt his wrist.

B) Miller's 2-0 against Philly (http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/scoresstats/boxscoredetailNEWRULES.asp?EventID=3114)


Miller was out during the selection due to a thumb injury. He wasn't playing fro B-lo at the time. Plus, although most B-lo fans were passionate about his kicking *** at the start of the season, he only had a 6-4 record to show for it. A record like that, compared to the other goalies at the time, wasn't enough for the coaches to take the risk to pick somebody who very possibly could have gone down-hill after his injury. It wasn't a bad decision on their part at that time. Their mistake was not changing the roster after Miller broke out after his injury.

As much as the slow giant they had in goal wednesday makes me cringe whenever a puck goes near him, theres other more important matters that the coaches need to be bashed about.

Laviolette is the worst coach ever
I nominate this for most retarded post of the year even though there's 10 more months to go in the year.

It wasn't a bad decision on their part at that time. Their mistake was not changing the roster after Miller broke out after his injury.

I would not call it a mistake. Changing the roster after the team was announced and selected would be a mistake. As an organization, you lose credibility and bring on doubt from players about whether, when selected, they actually remain on the roster in favor of another 'hotter' player.

I'm sorry, but that's a bad precedent to set for the future. Guys will not throw their hat in the ring to be selected, for as much as everyone thinks about the desire and honor to play for their home country, only to wonder whether they remain on the roster when selected despite being healthy.

Many people make the same argument about this past years UFA's that signed and were later traded. Many say 'good luck luring UFA's in the future.' Well, the same applies here. No one wants to be try out, be selected, and only be removed because some post-selected player is the hotter commodity.

Haha, I agree, he's got some hot pads. I want him in goal just so we get to see them again.

You wanna know what's funny? There was a thread on the Isles board started by a bunch of fans who hate DiPietro because he is a Milbury guy about how stupid DiPietro's pads are.

I think that Isles fans are really the only guys who seem to hate DP.

Some poster said that he was at the Philly game and was sure that Miller didn't play that night.

It's a tough concept for people with poor reading comprehension skills, I know, but my post was simply to show that Miller not only played, but made 33/34 saves and was named the game's first star. One would think that it would have been a noticeable performance.

Said by Gesthar:
"Grahame got scored on by being screened, on a 3 on 1 from a no-call from a check to the back, and an amazing shot that went right over his head, hit the crossbar, and went in.

IMO opinion he couldn't have stopped either of those, and neither could have the other two goalies.

He looked good and made some really good saves, it's moreso our defense that let those in, not Grahame."

I entirely agree. John Grahame should be given another shot. i know that DiPietro looked good today, but he's just as spotty as Grahame. The only difference is that Grahame can rebound with a good win, while DiPi has been spotty all season and is good one night, horrible the next.

The team played better today, for obvious reasons (less jetlag, more order, etc) and if the Americans want even a shot at any medal at all, they might want to give John Grahame another look.

gobolt7, I agree with you entirely.

I nominate this for most retarded post of the year even though there's 10 more months to go in the year.
i 2nd that nomination!

Ryan Miller projected stats if he was in the Olympics through two games:

GAA: 0.00
Save %: 1.100

Goals: 1(SH)
Assists: 5

Ryan Miller projected stats if he was in the Olympics through two games:

GAA: 0.00
Save %: 1.100

Goals: 1(SH)
Assists: 5

I thought mods were the ones who calmed things down and added maturity.

Ryan Miller projected stats if he was in the Olympics through two games:

GAA: 0.00
Save %: 1.100

Goals: 1(SH)
Assists: 5
I thought he would have had a hat trick if he were to play those first two games. He has almost achieved Chuck Norris status.