The Southeast Shall Rise

The Southeast shall rise
By Rich Libero | NHL.com | October 22, 2003

http://www.nhl.com/columns/libero/southeast102203.html

Edit: you can't post entire articles. Post links.

Just like we've been saying all along with Dudley and this is not Florida media either so we win the arguement, tho Stillman was a great addition by Feaster.

Just like we've been saying all along with Dudley and this is not Florida media either

With all due respect, the national media has never had a freaking clue about what is going on with the Tampa Bay Lightning, so its no surprise they would say something dumb. I mean for God's sake, this clown doesn't even have his facts straight. Dudley didn't trade Weekes. Dudley didn't draft Lecavalier, which he fails to mention. If someone can't even get their facts straight or be forthright enough to point out the Lightning's two star players didn't come from Dudley, why should anyone here believe their conclusions?

-Pete Choquette

Sure thing pal, *inserts Smells Like Teen Spirit medley* Your in "a denial, a denial, a denial, a denial, a denial, a denial, a denial, A DE-NIIIIII-AAAAAAHHHHALLL" :lol: :joker:

Way to strike back with wit and logic :rolleyes:

-Pete Choquette

I posted it because I thought it was about time somebody gave us a little respect as far as our division goes. When we play one another it is a different story, but it is nice to hear about what IMO is one of the best lined up divisions in hockey post-CBA. We don't have fans down here? Yeah right...

:rolleyes:

We don't have fans down here? Yeah right...

Fickle bandwagoning fans. Did you become a Marlins fan 4 weeks ago like every other South Florida sports fan too?

-Pete Choquette

Fickle bandwagoning fans. Did you become a Marlins fan 4 weeks ago like every other South Florida sports fan too?

-Pete Choquette

Definitely got to agree with you there South Florida is full of bandwagon fans its terrible, but the same can be said for the Lightning last year with the sudden rise of attendance, seemed like every commerical Sunshine Network put on started off with "Bolt yourself in for the playoffs" almost like they are brainwashing LOL.

I'll let someone like Sharon ginsu you up for having the audacity to suggest Lightning fans are bandwagon fans. Simply untrue. No one is more hard core than Lightning fans who lived the nightmare of the half decade prior to Dudley's resignation... except maybe Bucs fans who lived through the horror of the 80's.

-Pete Choquette

There's another factual inaccuracy I missed on the first read through Lightning fans. This writer claims our owner called Vincent "the next Mario Lemieux". No, actually Art Williams called him "A Michael Jordan type player.", and oh by the way Art Williams isn't the owner anymore which is another oversight.

This article is HORRIBLE. How does this guy draw a paycheck? Probably not with a straight face, I would guess.

-Pete Choquette

Im a Marlins fan, damn yankees can rot

That article's a joke. Self-promotional NHL fluff. That guy, like the rest of the country, probably hadn't seen a Lightning game in his life until last year's playoffs. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

With all due respect, the national media has never had a freaking clue about what is going on with the Tampa Bay Lightning, so its no surprise they would say something dumb. I mean for God's sake, this clown doesn't even have his facts straight. Dudley didn't trade Weekes. Dudley didn't draft Lecavalier, which he fails to mention. If someone can't even get their facts straight or be forthright enough to point out the Lightning's two star players didn't come from Dudley, why should anyone here believe their conclusions?

-Pete Choquette

There is nothing incorrect in this post. Pete is right, this guy is terribly inaccurate and the ongoing notion that Dudley was the constructor of this Lightning machine is absolutely incorrect.

Perhaps he will have more money to work with in Miami, but really, that wasn't his major problem. He got the Pokemon label because he just can't sit still on anything. Also, as was reported, when faced with a financial crisis he would throw his arms up in the air and acquire more prospects and picks (see Aucoin, Adrian).

The man is in love with prospects and youth. He does not build a good TEAM. Doesn't supply grit and enough vets and enough different kinds of players. It's not surprising in the least that he's built a GREAT foundation of young players in Miami. Quantity does not always equal quality, but when you keep trading players off to get those picks because you're bored at the draft table... something's wrong. When FLA actually makes the playoffs, I'll recognize Dudley as a decent GM. Until then, the only celebrating fans of his teams can do is when the "organizational prospect rankings" come out.

As for all the other posts between Pete and PantherNation...

I was probably a little over 50/50 on Dudley while he was here. I love young players and prospects, though. I could see the logic behind SOME of the deals, but it's just the laws of probability that state if you make 40 deals, you're going to get a gem or two. While we did get Martin St. Louis, Dudley's comments at the time were that STL was underdeveloped, could push for some playing time and "added depth." Dudley had no idea what he found. He also acquired similar players such as Dwayne Hay, Robert Petrovicky, Steve Guolla, Bruce Gardiner, Torgaev, Herbers, Johansson, Warriner, W. Primeau, Kesa, Svejkovsky, Martins, Ekman, Dale Rominski, Butsayev, Shevalier, Forbes, Ciger, and Chris McAlpine.... ALL were signed or acquired with the same-type labels attached to them and NONE of them worked out with Tampa Bay. Some, like Johansson and now Ekman, have worked out for other teams, but after Dudley got impatient with them. St. Louis is a guy who slipped through the cracks. Just because he may have hit a 480 foot homerun with STL or additional homeruns with Khabi and Sarich, doesn't mean he should be lauded for a pathetic overall .116 batting average.

Knowing what Lecavalier was going to go for makes me want to puke. Thank goodness someone stepped in.

Re: Marlins fans

(By default - I detest the Yankees - I am going for the Marlins)

Wasn't it Costas, back when FLA was playing the Indians in the Series, who said, "Indians fans have been looking forward to this series for 47 years. Marlins fans have been looking forward to this since Tuesday?"

Two great recent analogies on the Dudley debate:

From Swedish Bolt Fan (paraphrased): In accounting, you have to consider both sides of the ledger (expenses as well as income) when figuring out the bottom line.

From O39 (paraphrased): Dudley's like a home run hitter. When he makes contact, it's outta the park. But his average is terrible, and he leads the league in strikeouts.

Panther Fan is only looking at Dudley's highlight reel.

FWIW... A not-so-small list of Dudley "at bats."

I don't have an outgoing list, but here's the list of players brought into Tampa by Dudley that have seen ice time for the Lightning:

Freddy Modin
Mike Johnson
Stan Drulia
Brian Holzinger
Todd Warriner
Ryan Johnson
Robert Petrovicky
Wayne Primeau
Steve Guolla
Andreas Johansson
Dan Kesa
J. Svejkovsky
Steve Martins
Bruce Gardiner
Andrei Zyuzin
Ben Clymer
Bryan Muir
Cory Sarich
Nils Ekman
Pavel Torgaev
Marek Posmyk
Chris McAlpine
Dwayne Hay
Shawn Burr
Reid Simpson
Dale Rominski
Kaspars Astashenko
V. Butsayev
Dieter Kochan
Jeff Shavalier
Kyle Freadrich
Rich Parent
Ian Herbers
Dan Cloutier
N. Sundstrum (traded before he actually played for TB)
Adrian Aucoin
Martin St. Louis
Mathieu Biron
Alex Kharitonov
Matt Barnaby
Stan Neckar
Maxim Galanov
Sheldon Keefe
Grant Ledyard
Kristian Kudroc
John Emmons
Craig Millar
Kevin Weekes
Nikolai Khabibulin
Thomas Ziegler
Wade Flaherty
Vaclav Prospal
Dave Andreychuk
Dan Boyle
Zdeno Ciger
Jimmie Olvestad
Juha Ylonen
Nikita Alexeev
Tim Taylor
Nolan Pratt
Josef Boumedienne
Glen Metropolit
Gaetan Royer
Ryan Tobler
Sascha Goc
Alexander Svitov
Evgeny Konstantinov

Breakdown:

That's 67 total.

15 of 67 are still Lightning property (not necessarily on the TB NHL roster), including Posmyk and Goc, who are unsigned RFAs playing in Europe, never to return, so call it 13.

<b>42 of 67 are no longer in the NHL.</b>

11 of the 25 in the NHL are seeing top-2 line, top-2 pair, or starting goaltending time.

No, actually Art Williams called him "A Michael Jordan type player.", and oh by the way Art Williams isn't the owner anymore which is another oversight.

He actually labeled Vinny as "the next Michael Jordan of Hockey" and owned the team for only 9 months. The only good thing Art did was get this team out of debt.

He lost the team when he screamed at them during the first intermission that they were losing. He couldn't even name most of the players because they didn't have their jerseys on and they went on to lose that game like 10-2.

Although there is a "core" bunch of us diehards, there's less and less "other team's" jerseys since they've been winning, there is a whole bunch of bandwagoners in this area as well. :rolleyes:

He actually labeled Vinny as "the next Michael Jordan of Hockey" ...

Not "the next," just "the Michael Jordan of hockey." I'm pretty sure there wasn't a first Michael Jordan of hockey.

He also called Vinny "a sure Hall-of-Famer," I believe. What a dolt.

Highly disagreed on the Dudley statements, NJ, Quebec/Colorado, Ottawa, ect all endured LONG struggles and numerous players passed through the organizations before they acheived greatness, it is no different with TB and Dudley, he did a good job building your team. :bow:

Wayne Gretzky was the first micheal jordan of hockey

Considering Michael Jordan hadn't even entered the NBA until Gretzky had 2 or 3 seasons under his belt and certainly hadn't won a championship yet, I think this is a little far fetched.

Considering Michael Jordan hadn't even entered the NBA until Gretzky had 2 or 3 seasons under his belt and certainly hadn't won a championship yet, I think this is a little far fetched.
I guess that would make Michael Jordan the Wayne Gretzky of basketball. :)

Of course, if Art Williams had known anything about hockey, he would have been comparing Vinny to Gretzky instead of Jordan, and it would have made just as much sense (meaning: none).

I may not care too much for the current absentee owner, but he's far better than the previous I-wish-I-had-a-football-team-owner, who was better than an other-side-of-the-world-what-is-hockey-and-who-is-Phil-Esposito absentee owner. At this rate, maybe after we get a new CBA, George Steinbrenner will buy the team, right?

Hmmm, I wonder what George would think of Dudley as a GM...