sorry to bring up but attendence.......... [Archive]

devsfan8

02-02-2006, 12:07 AM

Why does everyone think that Newark is going to bring that many more people?

A very, very big pipe dream, IMO. Maybe for a year or two with the excitement of a new arena and everything. Now, I am not a Devils hater while I am a huge Ranger fan. I like seeing a team in Jersey do well and I like it when both teams are doing great because the rivalry is huge.

I just think it's a big old pipe dream that this new arena will bring in 7000 more fans a game or whatever the capacity will be.

It's not like it's any easier to get to. Parking will suck most likely (at least with the plans that I have read) and there will be no tailgaiting.

There will not be 7000 more a game agreed. But the attendance will be CONSIDERABLY better. They will sell out every weekend and have no embarrasing weekday crowds.

Tailgaiting is a privelege but they are also building up the area around the Arena. There will be bars and restaurants to hang out at. There is no tailgaiting at the Garden and they do fine with attendance even when they sucked. I guess that is the difference between playing in a CITY and a SUBURB.

The Arena will be 150% easier to get to. Sitting on the train as it lets you off at the Arena. It does not get much easier or cheaper then that.

The Devils will also make 100% of the concession money and own the arena. This is not one of those deals where the Devils get only a percentage of the concessions and the other percentage pays the Ushers and employees of the bulding to treatthe fans like crap and do a piss poor jpb running building.

The Newark Arena will be like the newer arenas where the entire lower bowl is not one set price of $90 which is the case at the CAA.

Ticket prices were the biggest factor as proven over the last 10 years. From 97-99 Devils attendance was not an issue averaging 16000 a game and selling out 15 times a year or more.

Now prices are sky high and nobody wants to pays tolls, parking gas and ware and tear on top of it.

I would but I am the minority.

Verbeek12

02-02-2006, 12:13 AM

Devils attendance has never been that good. The Stevens' retirement game still had single seat tickets for sale the night of the game (or a few nights before, at least)!!! That's just awful!

Blame that on Ticketmaster. I went on numerous times lately and it said there were no tickets available. Then vwalah I try again last night and score a single. The game has been as good as sold out for weeks.

OCD

02-02-2006, 12:34 AM

since the nhl took a year off, maybe the fans are taking a year off as well.

crashlanding

02-02-2006, 02:36 AM

Eh I'm not too worried about the attendance for tonight's game, I think it will be more than made up for on Friday.

I would have liked to have gone to this game because I like to watch the Sens on TV, at the arena, on a plane, underwater, wherever but seeing as how I dropped $180 bucks on two tickets for Friday's game I figured I should sit this one out. I don't think I'm alone in this either, really.

From what I can tell the lower bowl was a ghost town tonight (as it has been for every game I've been to this year except for opening night). I don't know why they can't get that through their heads when the make the ticket prices. The upper deck is usually pretty full and I can see why since CAA doesn't really have a single bad seat in the house, aside from directly behind the benches boy do I feel bad for those people when I see them on TV.

sundstrom32*

02-02-2006, 09:39 AM

RMBoner Stabone

02-02-2006, 09:59 AM

Why does everyone think that Newark is going to bring that many more people?

A very, very big pipe dream, IMO. Maybe for a year or two with the excitement of a new arena and everything. Now, I am not a Devils hater while I am a huge Ranger fan. I like seeing a team in Jersey do well and I like it when both teams are doing great because the rivalry is huge.

I just think it's a big old pipe dream that this new arena will bring in 7000 more fans a game or whatever the capacity will be.

It's not like it's any easier to get to. Parking will suck most likely (at least with the plans that I have read) and there will be no tailgaiting.

Your wrong on so many levels.

1. Newark has access to public transportation that leads you there from every NJT station. People will not have to pay tolls/parking fees. There are also restos/bars in the area.

2. Its closer to points south by a few minutes via car, 21 is being redone in anticipation of the move.

3. Newark is using the arena to rebuild/reshape its downtown core. There will be activities in the neighborhood. More food options and drinking establishments.

4. Is there tailgating at MSG or any downtown arena? In Montreal, we used to drink on the way to the bell centre. There will tailgating in Newark.

5. Corporate sales will be ramped up as the Devils, not the state control the gate.

6. The arena will do considerably better for some many reasons. The budget was cut for ticket sales for the next two years. The owner is starting fresh in Newark.

7. Devils have done a good job carving out a market in one where loyalities exist for four teams. There is more work to do, here's hoping the arena helps in that department.

Jonathan.

02-02-2006, 09:28 PM

Blame that on Ticketmaster. I went on numerous times lately and it said there were no tickets available. Then vwalah I try again last night and score a single. The game has been as good as sold out for weeks.

No it hasn't. I've tried a number of times just to see if it was sold out and it was NOT sold out up until a few days ago. I never had a problem with it comming up as unavailable or anything.

Jonathan.

02-02-2006, 09:35 PM

You guys really shouldn't be comparing tailgaiting with the Devils and Rangers. Tailgaiting is a HUGE thing at any Devils game. I've seen it numerous times with my own eyes. The Rangers have NEVER had a problem selling out the arena, so you can't even compare the two. Not in the least.

And do you really think that people are going to want to pay for the train to get all the way to Newark? Or love to try and find parking around the arena if they don't? A lot of Devils fans are from the Monmouth County area. Not as many up north, as most of them are Rangers fans. It seems that most Devils fans are around the central area of the state, and that does make a lot of sense.

Now they are going to have to pay for train tickets to get to the game which is just as expensive, if not more, than driving. Especially if you go as a family and have to pay a decent amount for a ticket.

The Devils' fan base is on very thin ice, so there really is no use in trying to compare anything to the Rangers fan base who have FAR more fans across the nation and in the local metro area who would be just dying to buy season tickets.

Personally, I think it's a good move for the city of Newark, which still needs a ****ton more work before I consider it some new hip place to live. But I still don't think it will garner many more fans than already currently show up for the games now. It'll be more expensive to get there by train (since that seems to be the obvious thing that they are going for) and will pretty much make it a TON more expensive for a family who would probably only pay around 15 to get there by car and then 10 to park.

In my area, I would say that around 70% or so of the hockey fans are die-hard Devils fans. I've spoken to quite a few and they are all pretty pissed about the parking situation and probably having to opt for taking the train up.

Good move for Newark, but a BIG risk for the Devils. They REALLY need to be filling up the arena for it to even be partly worthwhile. I love having the Devils here, so I hope they DO at least get a decent draw...

Jonathan.

02-02-2006, 09:36 PM

since the nhl took a year off, maybe the fans are taking a year off as well.

Attendence is up for nearly every team in the league. They hit all-time attendence records earlier in the year.

I figured the lock-out would have a very negative hit for the Devils in that sense, since the fan base just isn't there, unfortunately.

Jonathan.

02-02-2006, 09:41 PM

There will not be 7000 more a game agreed. But the attendance will be CONSIDERABLY better. They will sell out every weekend and have no embarrasing weekday crowds.

Well, we'll have to see. Now I do want them to draw and stay in New Jersey as I love having the rivalry and going to Devils/Rangers games so I'd never want to see the team leave at all.

Tailgaiting is a privelege but they are also building up the area around the Arena. There will be bars and restaurants to hang out at. There is no tailgaiting at the Garden and they do fine with attendance even when they sucked. I guess that is the difference between playing in a CITY and a SUBURB.

Yeah, but the Garden never has had trouble selling out. Tailgaiting or not, there are still people buying tickets like crazy. The Devils have a huge problem selling out and tailgaiting is a big, big thing at the swamp.

The Arena will be 150% easier to get to. Sitting on the train as it lets you off at the Arena. It does not get much easier or cheaper then that.

Cheaper? No. Easier? Most likely.

The Devils will also make 100% of the concession money and own the arena. This is not one of those deals where the Devils get only a percentage of the concessions and the other percentage pays the Ushers and employees of the bulding to treatthe fans like crap and do a piss poor jpb running building.

That's definately a good thing for them. Hopefully no $9 beers, though ;)

The Newark Arena will be like the newer arenas where the entire lower bowl is not one set price of $90 which is the case at the CAA.

Yeah, that was a nice thing that I saw with them doing. Gives them a better range and everything. Smart idea, IMO.

Ticket prices were the biggest factor as proven over the last 10 years. From 97-99 Devils attendance was not an issue averaging 16000 a game and selling out 15 times a year or more.

Selling out 15 games is really not a great thing...

Now prices are sky high and nobody wants to pays tolls, parking gas and ware and tear on top of it.

Other teams aren't having that problem, and the Devils' arena is really not as hard to get to as people think. It's a 50 minute shot from southern Monmouth County (where the majority of the fan base is -- central Jersey) and only costs around 35 total to get there, park, etc. Now if you have to take a train up with 3 or 4 people from that same area, it's going to be a ***** of a cost. Plus you have to factor in driving to the nearest train station if you don't have one near you... It get's quite expensive. Taking a train will hardly be any cheaper unless you're just going alone. But how many people ever do that?

RMBoner Stabone

02-02-2006, 09:48 PM

Jonathan.

02-02-2006, 09:59 PM

Nobody's comparing an orignal six team with 4 generations of fans to a team that arrived on the scene in 1982. We get it, MSG is always sold out. However, most of the seats are owned by corporations and the lower bowl is usually empty. Every wall street/banking firm has seating there. Your argument is like a Yankees fan telling a Mets fan, that they outdraw them.

Your wrong about the base of the Devils fan base, its spread out over Morris, Bergen in through Middlesex/Monmouth/Ocean.

What's the point? Either way, the Devils weren't leaving the state.

I'm not saying that it's NOT there, but I'm saying the MAJORITY seem to be in the central Jersey area. And I'd love to see you try and find a lot of empty seats during an MSG game. Yeah, for probably the first 5 minutes into each period where the suits and whoever are getting their drinks and whatnot, or pissing... But not during game time. When was the last time you bothers to attend and/or watch a Rangers game at the Garden? And yeah. I know every firm has seats there. I go to games all the time with corporate tickets from my father's company. Lower section. It's never empty, really.

You're getting a bit testy over something that is just a calm conversation. I'd suggest you calm down a bit there.

Verbeek12

02-02-2006, 11:05 PM

No it hasn't. I've tried a number of times just to see if it was sold out and it was NOT sold out up until a few days ago. I never had a problem with it comming up as unavailable or anything.

well I don't doubt your experience. I am relaying you my experience. I started last friday checking at least 10 times a day and nothing popped up till a few scattered singles did Wednesday. The game is a sellout so your point is moot. I have had this arguement for 2 decades with Ranger's fans. I can't understand your point. Yes the Rangers are more popular, they could lose forever(as proven by the last 7 years) and still dwarf the Devil's fan base. The bottom line is I've been to many playoff games and cup finals over the years and the parking lot before and the building itself was rocking. do we draw enough in the regular season? no. That is just a reality that we have to live with. The area just don't have enough hockey fans to support 3 teams with full houses every night in the regular season. I'm not going to tell a family how to spend their money. obvious;y taking a family of 4 and sitting in the upper deck for $70 a head has proven to be too much for the regular season, especially on weeknights. yes the Ottawa game had a great ticket deal for $52 seats, but it was not publisized at all in the mainstream media. By the way over the last few years before the lockout plenty of seats could be had for many ranger games on the night of the game at the box office, thats a fact.

crashlanding

02-02-2006, 11:20 PM

Anybody who thinks the arena deal is bad is just ignorant of the facts.

FACT: The Devils have the worst arena deal in the NHL, no parking, no concessions, skyhigh ticket prices for one of the leagues worst arenas.

FACT: It's nearly impossible/a major pain in the *** for anyone in NYC (yes, some Devils fans ACTUALLY live in NYC), Hoboken, Jersey City if you don't have a car.

Sure buses leave from Port Authority but there's a big difference between taking a train/subway to Manhattan (is there even a subway stop there?) and taking the PATH to Newark Penn Station. Imagine if MSG was right next to Laguardia, how much fun would it be to go to a Rangers game, especially for those "suits" who populate the lower bowl.
The Light Rail is also connecting much of coastal Hudson and Bergen counties and with stops in Hoboken and Jersey City, it's going to be easier AND cheaper to get to the arena than ever before.
People are going to enjoy taking the train to the arena too because guess what? you can get loaded before you leave and at the game and not have to worry about driving.

Newark may not be the Hamptons but its not like you have to walk three miles through the city at night to get to the arena, its right next to Penn Station.

Also, you have to choose between complaining about the Newark Arena and laughing at the Parking Lot Celebrations. You can't have it both ways.

As for tailgating, it's kind of hard to tailgate in the middle of winter, sure people do it but it's not that big a deal. Not THAT many people really do anything that can't be accomplished outside the new arena...now if they provide locker space for people's stuff outside the arena for when its gametime that could make things a lot better.

Seriously, stop complaining about our attendance/arena because none of us really care what you think.

devsfan8

02-02-2006, 11:21 PM

Other teams aren't having that problem, and the Devils' arena is really not as hard to get to as people think. It's a 50 minute shot from southern Monmouth County (where the majority of the fan base is -- central Jersey) and only costs around 35 total to get there, park, etc. Now if you have to take a train up with 3 or 4 people from that same area, it's going to be a ***** of a cost. Plus you have to factor in driving to the nearest train station if you don't have one near you... It get's quite expensive. Taking a train will hardly be any cheaper unless you're just going alone. But how many people ever do that?

Taking a train might not be that much cheaper then driving to the CAA. But the price of a ticket and a trip to the Arena without driving there after working an 8 hour day is much better.

The Devils will never have more fans then the Rangers. For every 1 Ranger fan that does not go toe the Garden there are 3 more to take his seat. The Devils are the newest franchise in the area and still have a nice fan base.

The Devils winning 3 cups has gained them a lot of fans nation wide. The bigest issue is the ticket prices. Did you ever notice that the upstairs is more often then not pretty full but downstairs at the CAA is an embarrassment? Well when seats that $50 or $60 at MSG they are $90 at the CAA.

There is really no comparison to the Devils fan support and status as their will be at Newark. When a team plays in an arena that has ammenities around it as opposed to a swamp where the closest place to eat is not even walking distance then they are bound to do better.

I compare our situation a lot to the Caps when they moved from the Cap Center to the MCI Center.

RMBoner Stabone

02-03-2006, 11:24 AM

You're getting a bit testy over something that is just a calm conversation. I'd suggest you calm down a bit there.

I'm calm and cool, I'm just tired of hearing from Rangers fans on this board and others who like to talk about how there isn't an empty seat at MSG or how they know how the new arena is going to do before it opens. They talk about these things as if it were gospel. The fact is people from Monmouth/Middlesex that drive to the games just cut there commute by 15 minutes. You may knock Newark, but lets not forget all cities have been where Newark is at and reinventing themselves.

Anytime I turn on Center Ice and the lower bowl is empty (i know the seats are paid for) that its a full house? Those tickets are more or less burned (tax deductible) if its such a hot ticket, why aren't they given out for the night? Nobody is comparing anything to the dynamic known as Manhattan.

RMBoner Stabone

02-03-2006, 01:00 PM

By the way over the last few years before the lockout plenty of seats could be had for many ranger games on the night of the game at the box office, thats a fact.

The prelockout NHL doesn't exist in the minds of some Rangers fans.

devsjunkie

02-03-2006, 01:07 PM

The prelockout NHL doesn't exist in the minds of some Rangers fans.

Actually that's true of postlockout.
We got same-day tickets on a weekend for Devils-Rangers when I found out I could go.

RMBoner Stabone

02-03-2006, 02:00 PM

Actually that's true of postlockout.
We got same-day tickets on a weekend for Devils-Rangers when I found out I could go.

How could you?, you must know the Dolans. People are 3/4 deep to get MSG tickets. :sarcasm: They wait years to get those seats.

Jonathan.

02-03-2006, 05:13 PM

Taking a train might not be that much cheaper then driving to the CAA. But the price of a ticket and a trip to the Arena without driving there after working an 8 hour day is much better.

The Devils will never have more fans then the Rangers. For every 1 Ranger fan that does not go toe the Garden there are 3 more to take his seat. The Devils are the newest franchise in the area and still have a nice fan base.

The Devils winning 3 cups has gained them a lot of fans nation wide. The bigest issue is the ticket prices. Did you ever notice that the upstairs is more often then not pretty full but downstairs at the CAA is an embarrassment? Well when seats that $50 or $60 at MSG they are $90 at the CAA.

There is really no comparison to the Devils fan support and status as their will be at Newark. When a team plays in an arena that has ammenities around it as opposed to a swamp where the closest place to eat is not even walking distance then they are bound to do better.

I compare our situation a lot to the Caps when they moved from the Cap Center to the MCI Center.

We'll just have to see. Like I said, I have no malice towards the team so it's not like I want to see it fail. I'm just trying to be as logical as I can be with it. Ya know?

Jonathan.

02-03-2006, 05:18 PM

well I don't doubt your experience. I am relaying you my experience. I started last friday checking at least 10 times a day and nothing popped up till a few scattered singles did Wednesday. The game is a sellout so your point is moot. I have had this arguement for 2 decades with Ranger's fans. I can't understand your point. Yes the Rangers are more popular, they could lose forever(as proven by the last 7 years) and still dwarf the Devil's fan base. The bottom line is I've been to many playoff games and cup finals over the years and the parking lot before and the building itself was rocking. do we draw enough in the regular season? no. That is just a reality that we have to live with. The area just don't have enough hockey fans to support 3 teams with full houses every night in the regular season. I'm not going to tell a family how to spend their money. obvious;y taking a family of 4 and sitting in the upper deck for $70 a head has proven to be too much for the regular season, especially on weeknights. yes the Ottawa game had a great ticket deal for $52 seats, but it was not publisized at all in the mainstream media. By the way over the last few years before the lockout plenty of seats could be had for many ranger games on the night of the game at the box office, thats a fact.

The playoffs SHOULD be rocking, though. Any team that can't sell out a playoff game shouldn't even have a team. But it's expected to be a sell-out for any team. And I definately agree that there aren't enough fans to support 3 teams. Just look at the Islanders pathetic draw. The only time when it's close to sold out,r eally, is when they play the Rangers. And then it's 40% Ranger fans...

"By the way over the last few years before the lockout plenty of seats could be had for many ranger games on the night of the game at the box office, thats a fact"

I don't know what games you're talking about. Pre-lockout I would try to get regular season tickets for the games I wanted. Never really was able to once the season started. Pretty much the only games available were the games VS the (at the time) crappy Lightning or games against teams that no one cared about (Atlanta, Carolina, etc etc). You couldn't get a Rangers/Devils ticket or a Rangers/Islanders ticket or really any team that is a draw there. If you say you could get tickets (now we're not talking about the $200 seat tickets) for whatever game, then you're talking out of your ***. If you mean games against teams that would have difficulty drawing ANYWHERE, than yeah. Sure, I can see that because I've never had a ton of trouble myself doing it and wouldn't argue against it. But forget it if you mean getting tickets against divisional rival teams (except Pittsburgh pre-Crosby and Lemieux returning) then you're definately either not thinking right or just plain lying.

Jonathan.

02-03-2006, 05:19 PM

Actually that's true of postlockout.
We got same-day tickets on a weekend for Devils-Rangers when I found out I could go.

When was this? I'd certainly liek to know since I've tried for divisional teams a bunch this year and certainly couldn't get them after the first week of hockey.

devsjunkie

02-03-2006, 05:26 PM

When was this? I'd certainly liek to know since I've tried for divisional teams a bunch this year and certainly couldn't get them after the first week of hockey.
Nov. 5.

Jonathan.

02-03-2006, 05:30 PM

Anybody who thinks the arena deal is bad is just ignorant of the facts.

Who said the arena deal is bad? I think you're the one being ignorant here. The only point I have made is it's not as AMAZING as some people are thinking it will be.

FACT: The Devils have the worst arena deal in the NHL, no parking, no concessions, skyhigh ticket prices for one of the leagues worst arenas.

Pittsburgh and the Islanders both have worse arenas. Don't even try that. I actually like the Devil's arena more than I do MSG. Much nicer seating, cheaper food, cheaper seats, etc. So don't even give me that crap.

FACT: It's nearly impossible/a major pain in the *** for anyone in NYC (yes, some Devils fans ACTUALLY live in NYC), Hoboken, Jersey City if you don't have a car.

Take a bus. They go right from NYC to the arena. Or carpool. You think it's not a pain for central jersey people to get there? Or expensive for NJ Rangers fans to go to a Ranger game? Get real. They all have the same issues.

Sure buses leave from Port Authority but there's a big difference between taking a train/subway to Manhattan (is there even a subway stop there?) and taking the PATH to Newark Penn Station. Imagine if MSG was right next to Laguardia, how much fun would it be to go to a Rangers game, especially for those "suits" who populate the lower bowl.

Hey, that's what you get when you build an arena next to the biggest city in the world. Traffic and a pain in the *** to commute. Deal with it and leave a bit early. You're over complicating the whole issue.

The Light Rail is also connecting much of coastal Hudson and Bergen counties and with stops in Hoboken and Jersey City, it's going to be easier AND cheaper to get to the arena than ever before.

That drive even isn't that bad for people up there. But compare it to the absolutely HUGE fan base in central jersey and it's not like they can get there without taking the regional NJ transit rail and pay out the *** for a train ticket. They raised prices again, so it's even more than it was last year.

People are going to enjoy taking the train to the arena too because guess what? you can get loaded before you leave and at the game and not have to worry about driving.

People from the non-north Jersey area (read Central Jersey -- which is probably about half or even more of the fan base to begin with) won't enjoy paying the huge train price. You can believe that or choose not to, but I guarantee you you will hear *****ing about it not even a year after the arena is complete and the hockey is playing.

Newark may not be the Hamptons but its not like you have to walk three miles through the city at night to get to the arena, its right next to Penn Station.

Yeah, but what about the people driving there? The parking situation is flat out going to SUCK. I don't think the plans are great at all for it and they are just expecting every single fan nearly to take the train there, it seems like. And with the price of tickets, that is just not logical at all IMO. Also, what happens when overtime happens? Is the train just magically going to be there to take the fans home? They run on strict schedules. I doubt someone will enjoy waiting a whole nother hour for the next train to come late at night.

Also, you have to choose between complaining about the Newark Arena and laughing at the Parking Lot Celebrations. You can't have it both ways.

Where did I laugh at any parking celebrations?

As for tailgating, it's kind of hard to tailgate in the middle of winter, sure people do it but it's not that big a deal. Not THAT many people really do anything that can't be accomplished outside the new arena...now if they provide locker space for people's stuff outside the arena for when its gametime that could make things a lot better.

The locker space is a really good idea and something they should think about (IE giving season ticket holders or plan holders free locker space and charging around 5 a game to use it for non season or paln holders).

Seriously, stop complaining about our attendance/arena because none of us really care what you think.

Seriously, there's no reason for you to get so bent out of shape over any of this as I am being as civil as they come. I'm just here to talk about the arena and have a nice conversation -- something a few people here seem to be against!!!

Jonathan.

02-03-2006, 05:30 PM

Nov. 5.

Then it's probably complete luck on your part. I try to get tickets every year and it's about as hard as possible after the first week of the season or so.

Jonathan.

02-03-2006, 05:31 PM

How could you?, you must know the Dolans. People are 3/4 deep to get MSG tickets. :sarcasm: They wait years to get those seats.

Just like people need only to wait 5 minutes for a Stevens' retirement game ticket ;)

Just joking, but heyy, if you take a shot at us I'll give you one right back.

crashlanding

02-03-2006, 05:52 PM

Jon, some of my comments were not directed at you but more towards the multitude of Rangers fans that come over and blast our deal, most of the arguments just bleed together so I just tried to answer with most of the things I've thought of about the arena.

I also said we have the worst arena DEAL, i know there are arenas that are far worse but we don't own the building we pay rent and don't get any parking or concessions revenues (a big part of a team's overall revenue). As a result ticket prices are through the roof, this is all cause/effect. With such high ticket prices you'd expect to have a state of the art arena instead of feeling like cattle everytime you venture into the concourse.

Nobody's saying that the Devils will sell out every game now with a new arena, we're just saying that it will be much better all around. I'm from central NJ and I've never had a problem getting to the arena now and I would take the train to the arena given the opportunity, it would just make things less stressful. Trains run pretty much every hour and I don't think it would be out of line for NJ Transit to try and accomodate fans by running a couple more trains/adjusting the schedule around the time games end. I don't think they get that many people at around 10-10:30 as it is.

Jon, most times you strike me as a Rangers fan that is willing to have a decent debate opposed to guys like JR#9 its just we Devils fans are used to, whenever something good happens for the organization, having people flooding our boards talking about attendance, the trap, two and a half cups, etc. Leads to us having an adversarial approach to anybody coming here and raining on our parking lot parade.

Jonathan.

02-04-2006, 01:29 PM

Jon, some of my comments were not directed at you but more towards the multitude of Rangers fans that come over and blast our deal, most of the arguments just bleed together so I just tried to answer with most of the things I've thought of about the arena.

Wasn't sure so I figured I'd cover all bases here, haha. Right on.

I also said we have the worst arena DEAL, i know there are arenas that are far worse but we don't own the building we pay rent and don't get any parking or concessions revenues (a big part of a team's overall revenue). As a result ticket prices are through the roof, this is all cause/effect. With such high ticket prices you'd expect to have a state of the art arena instead of feeling like cattle everytime you venture into the concourse.

That's true and just me misreading since I was leaving as I was writing it. I can understand that, then.

Nobody's saying that the Devils will sell out every game now with a new arena, we're just saying that it will be much better all around. I'm from central NJ and I've never had a problem getting to the arena now and I would take the train to the arena given the opportunity, it would just make things less stressful.

But also much more costly in the long run if you go to a lot of games.

Trains run pretty much every hour and I don't think it would be out of line for NJ Transit to try and accomodate fans by running a couple more trains/adjusting the schedule around the time games end. I don't think they get that many people at around 10-10:30 as it is.

I don't know if they'd do that, but it's something the Devils better plan on petitioning for. They certainly don't do it for NYR games and I think that they'd have a bigger pull over Devils games, to be honest.

Jon, most times you strike me as a Rangers fan that is willing to have a decent debate opposed to guys like JR#9 its just we Devils fans are used to, whenever something good happens for the organization, having people flooding our boards talking about attendance, the trap, two and a half cups, etc. Leads to us having an adversarial approach to anybody coming here and raining on our parking lot parade.

Yeah, that's definately true. I try to be as unbiased as possible and everything when it comes to teams outside of the Fish Sticks.

Verbeek12

02-04-2006, 01:55 PM

Then it's probably complete luck on your part. I try to get tickets every year and it's about as hard as possible after the first week of the season or so.

5 minutes ago I just checked ticketmaster.com You can get 4 seats together right now for Rangers-Ottawa Wed. night at the Garden. $40 seats in section 342 behind the net. I see- with the Rangers and their fanbase of millions having trouble selling out on a weeknight vs. one of the best teams in the East, we are supposed to do it here at the Meadowlands, or get ridiculed...

PeteNJ

02-04-2006, 08:35 PM

The Rangers are not the Giants or Jets, there is no waiting list for general season tickets. If you want them and can afford them you just call and ask.

Train tickets are not really that expensive. I don't know why you think they are.

As an example. Family of Four (2 adults, 2 kids) going from here (Little Silver) to Newark for a weekend costs $26.00.

You really underestimate how many people will take the train. Hell, how do you think most Rangers fans from NJ get to Rangers games? Hint: they don't drive. And it costs more to take the train to New York than to Newark.

JimEIV

02-05-2006, 04:48 AM

The prices in NJ are very high.

2 people for the Stevens retirement game:

6.10 Turpike Tolls
10.00 Parking
12.00 2 Chicken sandwiches
28.00 4 beers
184.00 2 tickets
_____________________

$240 dollars isn't a bad nice out, but how many people can do that 3 times a week?

You look at the crowd in NJ and it is all families. A family is not going to spend a Grand in a week to see the Devils.

RMBoner Stabone

02-05-2006, 07:49 AM

sundstrom32*

02-05-2006, 09:38 AM

Rangers families do :sarcasm:

no they don't rangers game is not a family event; sure there are some families but not the norm, rangers svck and will lmiss the playoffs as soon as jagr pulls his groin

abev

02-05-2006, 11:40 AM

Toxostoma Rufum

02-05-2006, 11:54 AM

What struck me about the stats is that the games vs. Atlantic teams draw well because you have the visiting fans...SE games draw very poorly (that happens everywhere which I don't understand completely - who doesn't want to see Tampa Bay or Carolina?), but what should raise the red flags is that the games against CANADIAN teams draw as poorly as the SE games. If fewer than 12,000 want to see their team play OTT, MON, and TOR...then a new stadium will help but not solve the main attendance issues.

PEli*

02-05-2006, 12:50 PM

Attendence is up for nearly every team in the league. They hit all-time attendence records earlier in the year.

Yes, in October, I believe. If that's what you're thinking of, there's a reason for it. The NHL scheduled more games in October this year than ever before. Of course attendance records would be set. More games = more people. So let's wait until the end of the year to see which teams finish with good numbers.

Feed Me A Stray Cat

02-05-2006, 02:54 PM

I'm pretty sure they set records for November and December, too. Not sure about January.

NYIsles1*

02-06-2006, 09:29 AM

5 minutes ago I just checked ticketmaster.com You can get 4 seats together right now for Rangers-Ottawa Wed. night at the Garden. $40 seats in section 342 behind the net. I see- with the Rangers and their fanbase of millions having trouble selling out on a weeknight vs. one of the best teams in the East, we are supposed to do it here at the Meadowlands, or get ridiculed...

Ranger fans in glass Garden's should not throw stones.

They could not even sell out their home opener against Montreal, after the Florida OLN game on October 17th Larry Brooks outright wrote about the thousands of empty seats for Ranger hockey in the Garden. Why do you think they need the Isles, Devils and Flyers at Msg four times with our fans rocking their house for them to post a legitimate sellout themselves. Go listen to the crowd when Pitkanen scored last Monday in overtime, who was the home team?

This idea the Rangers have fans three and four deep trying to get tickets is beyond comical (especially in a huge baseball market like NYC where hockey is a niche sport now more than even before with minimal media coverage) estimates from business articles (Dolan's refuse to disclose any information) claim the Rangers have no more than 11-12,000 season tickets sold/w partial plans included and that's with basketball fans who take both teams to get an ungraded seat location for the Knicks.

Even the Knicks rarely sellout anymore in baseball city.

Rangers have been playing in front of thousands of empty seats for years with empty/unsold seats on many gamenights (just ask for seats at the boxoffice on game night) and you see the pockets of empty seats everywhere at home games.

Dolan's are not honest with true Ranger attendance like basically anything they claim. A team with a 0.54 television rating being spammed on Msg with no baseball left to sell (down from 0.75 in 03-04) does not have millions of fans supporting or even watching them anymore and that's during a quiet baseball winter. Sabres tv ratings are ten times higher than the Rangers on Msg, Predators games draw ratiings three times higher than the Rangers.

Check ticketmaster again and try and find 2, 3 or 4 seats together for this Weds game @ MSG. I promise you they will do better than 10200. You can expect another sellout of 18200.

You can expect another announced Dolan sellout of 18,200 regardless of the true attendance which will not be close to a sellout, that's about it.

RMBoner Stabone

02-06-2006, 09:53 AM

JR#9*

02-06-2006, 10:54 AM

Ranger fans in glass Garden's should not throw stones.

They could not even sell out their home opener against Montreal, after the Florida OLN game on October 17th Larry Brooks outright wrote about the thousands of empty seats for Ranger hockey in the Garden. Why do you think they need the Isles, Devils and Flyers at Msg four times with our fans rocking their house for them to post a legitimate sellout themselves. Go listen to the crowd when Pitkanen scored last Monday in overtime, who was the home team?

This idea the Rangers have fans three and four deep trying to get tickets is beyond comical (especially in a huge baseball market like NYC where hockey is a niche sport now more than even before with minimal media coverage) estimates from business articles (Dolan's refuse to disclose any information) claim the Rangers have no more than 11-12,000 season tickets sold/w partial plans included and that's with basketball fans who take both teams to get an ungraded seat location for the Knicks.

Even the Knicks rarely sellout anymore in baseball city.

Rangers have been playing in front of thousands of empty seats for years with empty/unsold seats on many gamenights (just ask for seats at the boxoffice on game night) and you see the pockets of empty seats everywhere at home games.

Dolan's are not honest with true Ranger attendance like basically anything they claim. A team with a 0.54 television rating being spammed on Msg with no baseball left to sell (down from 0.75 in 03-04) does not have millions of fans supporting or even watching them anymore and that's during a quiet baseball winter. Sabres tv ratings are ten times higher than the Rangers on Msg, Predators games draw ratiings three times higher than the Rangers.

You can expect another announced Dolan sellout of 18,200 regardless of the true attendance which will not be close to a sellout, that's about it.

Plllleeeaaassse!!!

This coming from a guy who's team is LAST in the NHL in attendance and just last week at a game I attended had his home team outright embaressed by having 1/2 the place filled w/NYR fans who just blew the doors off the Isle fans as far as being vocal and had their own players being heckled before the game even started!!!

Even your own players commented about what a disgrace it was to have a game in Nassua where the crowd is chanting "DP sucks" throughout the entire game!!!

As for the NYR's, yes there are empties but they are in the lower bowl where it's all wall st seast that have the seat owners meeting with customers for top end diners that afterward they usually don't even show up but other than that it's a small scatering of seast, no where near the SEA OF THOUSANDS you guys see so don't even try and compare them to the Isles in that regard.

Call MSG or TM and see if you can get 4 together for ANY games this year because you can't and I know this because I've had numerous people buying my 4 seast because they had no luck going through MSG or TM.

I do love however how you tried to blame MSG for the fact of the Isles being in LAST place attendance wise of a lack of TV commercials promoting the team!!! :biglaugh:

I'd say the problems on LI go alot deeper than a lack of TV commercials! :naughty:

NYIsles1*

02-06-2006, 11:26 AM

Just look at the Islanders pathetic draw. The only time when it's close to sold out,r eally, is when they play the Rangers. And then it's 40% Ranger fans...

This works both ways:

Even in the year the Isles finished 30th in March of 2001 the Isles went into Msg having just fired Goring and Larry Brooks (Ranger beatwriter) in March wrote the following about fan support for an Islander team about to miss the playoffs for a seventh straight year:

http://www.isles-list.com/index.cfm?action=schedule&&year=2000&gameid=2288 (http://www.isles-list.com/index.cfm?action=schedule&&year=2000&gameid=2288)

And Down Go The Rangers
By Larry Brooks

There is no end to the indignities this Ranger team is heaping on the franchise.

It wasn't enough to lose their sixth of the last seven, wasn't enough to fall a season-worst nine games under .500, wasn't even enough to all but eliminate even the most remote prayer of playoff qualification with 16 games still remaining in the season.

No, in this 75th anniversary season the Rangers had to go even a step farther and turn the Garden into Nassau Coliseum Mainland, as the substantial number of Islander fans, who invaded Manhattan last night, filled the arena with chants of "Let's Go Islanders!" as their team whipped the heroic home boys by 5-2.

Here is Newsday's blog from October where the writer talks about bypartisian crowds in both Msg and the Coliseum for the home and home series:

http://www.newsday.com//sports/weblog/archives/2005/10/index.html
Isles-Rangers: Twice As Nice
It's amazing how different the experience was in the two buildings. Madison Square Garden is built more like a church than a hockey rink – spacious, cavernous, and reverent. Nassau Coliseum reminds me of a large auditorium, or a college basketball arena. It’s homey, the acoustics are great, and the crowd noise is earsplitting.

Apparently the differences in the two buildings didn't bother any of the visiting fans. There were a LOT of Islanders fans at Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night. And there were a LOT of Rangers fans at Nassau Coliseum on Thursday night.

It was shocking to see, but I liked it. It made the game feel more like a local rivalry – like two high school teams battling it out at the local rink
********************************************

Islanders sold out twenty games in the second half of 01-02 and some of the local media claimed it was the loudest they ever heard a crowd at a New York sporting event during the Toronto series in the playoffs. One of them appeared on Msg's cancelled show Angles and Garden Salesman Al Trautwig turned a nice shade of Devils red when he said it at the time. ;)

In fact while the Islanders were becoming a dynasty and dominating this hockey region while selling out every game for well over a decade the Rangers were moving to the Meadowlands because they were losing money at Msg until they were given the corporate welfare/tax exemptions to keep them at Msg in 1981 even though they went to the semi-finals and the Isles swept them. It was the Islanders success that created the need for a third team in this market, not the Rangers.

Funny, but it may well have been the Islanders and the rivalry that kept you from moving at the time.
*********************************************
As for the Devils they play in a rink with a higher capacity than Msg (tougher to sellout in a building that large) and still have excellent fan support considering the lack of media to sell hockey in NYC market, and they have had more than their share of great fan support in the Garden over the years, to make this seem one-sided is not very fair.

I don't know what games you're talking about. Pre-lockout I would try to get regular season tickets for the games I wanted. Never really was able to once the season started. Pretty much the only games available were the games VS the (at the time) crappy Lightning or games against teams that no one cared about (Atlanta, Carolina, etc etc). You couldn't get a Rangers/Devils ticket or a Rangers/Islanders ticket or really any team that is a draw there.

And that has a lot to do with Devil, Flyer and Islander fans helping to fill seats in your building, same as the Rangers and Isles do in Nassau and CAA.

It's funny but all this talk of great Ranger fan support and it was the recent Islander game (1/21) that drew a crowd of 18,852 to the Meadowlands to see the Devils shootout win.

Meanwhile this supposed huge Ranger fanbase three and four deep produced crowds at the CAA of only 14,596 (11/3) and 17,499 (10/8) for both Ranger Meadowlands games so far. Even the first Flyer game drew a larger crowd than the first Ranger game. (16,015)

Your not very realistic in terms of your teams draw, why do you think Mike Richter night and even Messier's night were scheduled on weeknights against Western Conference teams, so Dolan could get a real sellout for a change. Do you watch the games on Msg where individual seats are advertised or mini-plans to go with your sponsored pp.

JR#9*

02-06-2006, 11:54 AM

Yes, there have been more fans at MSG both in 03-04 and this year but AT NO TIME was it as ridiculous as 1/2 of Nassua where the Isle fans couldn't even been heard in their own building.

You were there last week I'm sure and saw just how pathetic it was.Little Ricky was being heckled before the opening puck was dropped.

And you really are exagerating how many seats are available for a given MSG game.For you to say they don't have legit sellouts is a joke.I go to most every game and as I said while some of the corparate seats go unused they are sold and the guys just don't show up and the 200's-300-400's are always filled save for a seat here or there.

I've sold every one of my games and people I've sold to are begging me for more games because they've been shut out by TM so don't even try and compare it to the Island where there getting 11k a game if that!!!

I know now that the NYR's ended the Islander season last week where the Isle's and even their fans rasied the white flag on the '05-06 season that you have to turn to this to try and take shots at the NYR but you'll have to do better than this because if you're trying to compare us with you guys as having drawing problems you can keep running in circles because a simplevisit to the ticket thread on NYR board will show you people trying to buy from other fans because they can't get them through TM.

abev

02-06-2006, 12:07 PM

Ranger fans in glass Garden's should not throw stones.

They could not even sell out their home opener against Montreal, after the Florida OLN game on October 17th Larry Brooks outright wrote about the thousands of empty seats for Ranger hockey in the Garden. Why do you think they need the Isles, Devils and Flyers at Msg four times with our fans rocking their house for them to post a legitimate sellout themselves. Go listen to the crowd when Pitkanen scored last Monday in overtime, who was the home team?

How great is this? Another expert when his team is 30th in NHL attendance. The Rangers home opener was annouced at 18200. And the RANGERS need the whole NHL schedule to be changed so they could draw more. Even though, as you say, their announced attendance is less than honest. Its amazing that the Rangers need other teams like the Devils and Isle to "rock the house". They come to MSG but they cant go to their building?

This idea the Rangers have fans three and four deep trying to get tickets is beyond comical (especially in a huge baseball market like NYC where hockey is a niche sport now more than even before with minimal media coverage) estimates from business articles (Dolan's refuse to disclose any information) claim the Rangers have no more than 11-12,000 season tickets sold/w partial plans included and that's with basketball fans who take both teams to get an ungraded seat location for the Knicks.

This is the classic response. The information isnt released but you have all the information? The Rangers have drawn 99.5% of capacity this season. ANd you think you would be no financial repercussions if the 'Dolans' cooked the books and decided to add 4000 people to the attendance every night. Do I get a tax lesson now?

Rangers have been playing in front of thousands of empty seats for years with empty/unsold seats on many gamenights (just ask for seats at the boxoffice on game night) and you see the pockets of empty seats everywhere at home games.

I'd love to compare notes with you. I have been to all but 1 home game this year and I just dont see thousands of "empty" or "unsold" seats.

Dolan's are not honest with true Ranger attendance like basically anything they claim. A team with a 0.54 television rating being spammed on Msg with no baseball left to sell (down from 0.75 in 03-04) does not have millions of fans supporting or even watching them anymore and that's during a quiet baseball winter. Sabres tv ratings are ten times higher than the Rangers on Msg, Predators games draw ratiings three times higher than the Rangers.

I'd love to know your source for the ratings. So the Sabres do a 5? Thats pretty good. Dont forget to share with us the size difference in what makes a local point in Buffalo and what makes a local point in NY.

It's hard to swallow, and you can rationalize any way you like, but the Devils, Rangers, and Islanders are all in the #1 market (population) in the US. For teams to outdraw any NY team in markets that are less than 1/10th the size of the NY market is unbelievable.

JimEIV

02-06-2006, 12:30 PM

I think the heavily discussed issue of attendance is really bizarre.......Its not just here, all Hockey fans talk about attendance......

I personally think its because we all know in the back of our minds how inconsequential hockey really is, at least here in the US.

I’ll be honest with you, I absolutely loved the days when I could get to the Devils games 15 minutes before game time, find plenty of parking and 3rd row seat for $28.00 at box office, if I was broke I would buy front row in the upper deck for $20.00. I felt I had my own personal hockey team.

NYIsles1*

02-06-2006, 12:33 PM

Even your own players commented about what a disgrace it was to have a game in Nassua where the crowd is chanting "DP sucks" throughout the entire game!!!

You see unlike you I do not post information to get a reaction. I post information because it's true. By all means read Larry Brooks article on October 18th after the 4-0 win against Florida on OLN where he talks about the thousands of empty seats at the Garden. If I can find the link beyond the archives I will post it here also. If I did not read it, I would not post it.

As for the NYR's, yes there are empties but they are in the lower bowl where it's all wall st seast that have the seat owners meeting with customers for top end diners that afterward they usually don't even show up but other than that it's a small scatering of seast, no where near the SEA OF THOUSANDS you guys see so don't even try and compare them to the Isles in that regard.

Being that you do not wish to believe me and need to alternate between 50/60 percent of the crowd at the Coliseum game was cheering for the Ranger fans last week (as if your scoring debating points by deferring the discussion) by all means take the truth from a Ranger fan about support in your own building if your not willing to accept it from myself or any Devil fans.

I was at the first Garden Islander game and what this person wrote was absolutely right which is why the Newsday writer wrote about the crowd being by-partisian.

http://rangerpundit.blogspot.com/2005/10/i-may-be-wrong-but.html

Why does the Garden insist on padding attendance figures? For the Monday night game against the Panthers they announced 16,000 plus. No way. There were sections of Green (300's) behind both nets that were completely empty. If 12,000 were there that night it was a stretch. On Wednesday against the Islanders just about every section had empty seats. Believe me I have been to games that were packed. This game was not. But yet the figure was announced at 18,200. At least the Islanders were honest enough to admit they had 15,847, about 400 short of capacity. Watching the Rangers against Washington on TV you could see many empty seats.

Call MSG or TM and see if you can get 4 together for ANY games this year because you can't and I know this because I've had numerous people buying my 4 seast because they had no luck going through MSG or TM.

The person who wrote in this topic already said tickets in sets of four were available for Wednesday's Senator game, so already your claim is incorrect.

I do love however how you tried to blame MSG for the fact of the Isles being in LAST place attendance wise of a lack of TV commercials promoting the team!!!
I'd say the problems on LI go alot deeper than a lack of TV commercials!

I listed this as one of three reasons with this television exposure being the second. (prices and Milbury were the first)

You see unlike the Islanders your team is winning and still cannot fill it's own building yet you make claims about the Devils not supporting the team.

Works both ways.

NYIsles1*

02-06-2006, 12:53 PM

I'd love to know your source for the ratings.

So the Sabres do a 5? Thats pretty good. Dont forget to share with us the size difference in what makes a local point in Buffalo and what makes a local point in NY.

It's hard to swallow, and you can rationalize any way you like, but the Devils, Rangers, and Islanders are all in the #1 market (population) in the US. For teams to outdraw any NY team in markets that are less than 1/10th the size of the NY market is unbelievable.

Here are several sources: I did not wish to repost the same information but this is also on the business board if you wish to reference it and it also helps to partly explain empty seats in all three buildings:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060114/1020121.asp (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060114/1020121.asp)

WNY rates at the top for football
The Panthers' 23-0 victory had a 24.3 rating here, which Channel 29 officials report was 23 percent higher than the 19.8 rating the game had in the Giants' home market of New York City and 45 percent higher than the 16.8 rating the game had in the top 50 markets.

Buffalo is also an exceptional TV market for hockey.
Quinn adds that OLN, the league's new cable partner, has decided to take a late-season Sabres game off of MSG and carry it nationally. He also notes that local TV ratings have been strong, averaging better than a 5 rating.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060121/1052737.asp (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060121/1052737.asp)

Ratings for the Buffalo Sabres continue to soar compared to the 2003-2004 season. The Sabres are averaging a 4.9 rating on MSG this season, up 69 percent from a 2.9 on Empire the last time the team played. That shows what winning can do for ratings in a hockey town. NBC's NHL opener on Channel 2 last weekend had a 2.3 rating, well above the national average of 1.5.

http://boards.nashvillepredators.com/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&cmd=showentry&blogid=1&eid=48 (http://boards.nashvillepredators.com/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&cmd=showentry&blogid=1&eid=48)
Preds TV Ratings on the Rise

Tuesday night's FSN South broadcast of the Predators-Red Wings game measured a 1.8 rating, the highest mark for any Predators broadcast this season. Monday's match between the two clubs drew a 1.5, and four of the Preds' last five telecasts have drawn a 1.3 or higher (vs. six times in the first 27 telecasts).

Hockey Ratings in NY really, really low...
http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists (http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists)
NBC: One more shot with NHL

Numbers are down compared with 2003-04 for all three local teams, who have rated from a high of 0.54 for the Rangers on MSG to a dismal 0.13 for both the Isles and Devils on FSNY. It is not much better on OLN, the league's new national cable home, which averages 0.2.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/373217p-317295c.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/373217p-317295c.html)

Hot stove has Giants in cold

And for anyone delusional enough remind us not to forget the NHL's Atlantic Division-leading New York Rangers, well, let's just say this: Over the past couple of weeks, the Texas Rangers - and the ultimate destination of Alfonso Soriano - have been getting more ink, and air time, locally than Cablevision's entry in Gary Bettman's version of Holiday On Ice.

See, in terms of media, hockey's Rangers are traditionally fringe players, a non-factor when it comes to readership and TV/radio ratings. The Giants are at the other end of the spectrum.

JR#9*

02-06-2006, 01:09 PM

Here are several sources: I did not wish to repost the same information but this is also on the business board if you wish to reference it and it also helps to partly explain empty seats in all three buildings:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060114/1020121.asp (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060114/1020121.asp)

WNY rates at the top for football
The Panthers' 23-0 victory had a 24.3 rating here, which Channel 29 officials report was 23 percent higher than the 19.8 rating the game had in the Giants' home market of New York City and 45 percent higher than the 16.8 rating the game had in the top 50 markets.

Buffalo is also an exceptional TV market for hockey.
Quinn adds that OLN, the league's new cable partner, has decided to take a late-season Sabres game off of MSG and carry it nationally. He also notes that local TV ratings have been strong, averaging better than a 5 rating.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060121/1052737.asp (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060121/1052737.asp)

Ratings for the Buffalo Sabres continue to soar compared to the 2003-2004 season. The Sabres are averaging a 4.9 rating on MSG this season, up 69 percent from a 2.9 on Empire the last time the team played. That shows what winning can do for ratings in a hockey town. NBC's NHL opener on Channel 2 last weekend had a 2.3 rating, well above the national average of 1.5.

http://boards.nashvillepredators.com/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&cmd=showentry&blogid=1&eid=48 (http://boards.nashvillepredators.com/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&cmd=showentry&blogid=1&eid=48)
Preds TV Ratings on the Rise

Tuesday night's FSN South broadcast of the Predators-Red Wings game measured a 1.8 rating, the highest mark for any Predators broadcast this season. Monday's match between the two clubs drew a 1.5, and four of the Preds' last five telecasts have drawn a 1.3 or higher (vs. six times in the first 27 telecasts).

Hockey Ratings in NY really, really low...
http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists (http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists)
NBC: One more shot with NHL

Numbers are down compared with 2003-04 for all three local teams, who have rated from a high of 0.54 for the Rangers on MSG to a dismal 0.13 for both the Isles and Devils on FSNY. It is not much better on OLN, the league's new national cable home, which averages 0.2.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/373217p-317295c.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/373217p-317295c.html)

Hot stove has Giants in cold

And for anyone delusional enough remind us not to forget the NHL's Atlantic Division-leading New York Rangers, well, let's just say this: Over the past couple of weeks, the Texas Rangers - and the ultimate destination of Alfonso Soriano - have been getting more ink, and air time, locally than Cablevision's entry in Gary Bettman's version of Holiday On Ice.

See, in terms of media, hockey's Rangers are traditionally fringe players, a non-factor when it comes to readership and TV/radio ratings. The Giants are at the other end of the spectrum.

Wait a minute...are you telling me that the NFL does better rating than the NHL???? :confused:

Have you contacted your local news aganecy to give them this breaking news??? :dunce:

bottom line is the Isles are in last place, yes LAST place out of a 30 team league and behind such hockey hotbeds as Nashville, Atlanta, Florida, it's just embaressing really for you guys and I just love how bitter you are about how NYR fans just owned you building the last 2 meeting.

The NYR-NYI games at MSG drew a good deal of Isle fans but you didn't come close to the domination NYR fans had in Nassua where you own teams players were being heckled before the game even started and there wasn't an Islander chant until the 3rd and most people there felt that was artificially produced by the people at NVMC.

Worry about the debacle that is the NYI's these days and how the future looks even bleaker for you guys.You going to the ends of the earth in your quest to defend Yashin is one of the funniest things on these boards and thanks to MM we'll be able to see it continue for another 6 yrs! :handclap:

NYIsles1*

02-06-2006, 01:35 PM

Wait a minute...are you telling me that the NFL does better rating than the NHL???? Have you contacted your local news aganecy to give them this breaking news???

Actually Abev brought up a very good point that had me curious when he wrote: Dont forget to share with us the size difference in what makes a local point in Buffalo and what makes a local point in NY.

That's exactly what I did when I included how in football ratings more people in Buffalo watched the Giants-Carolina NFC playoff game in their market as opposed to the NYC market.

The NYR-NYI games at MSG drew a good deal of Isle fans but you didn't come close to the domination NYR fans had in Nassua where you own teams players were being heckled before the game even started and there wasn't an Islander chant until the 3rd and most people there felt that was artificially produced by the people at NVMC.

The bottom line is you came here to put down the Devils attendance and have more than your own share of attendance/exposure/ratings problems and need the Devils and Islander fans as much as we need your fans at this time, even in your best season in close to a decade. When your proven by your own teams fans and viable media sources your incorrect, you have to change the subject.

I feel like the Geico man here in the commercial. Have the roast duck or no appetite but get over the fact that your team has many of the same problems as the Islanders and Devils, even when your club is winning.

Go to Msg, CAA and the Coliseum and support your local team, hold the mango salsa.

abev

02-06-2006, 02:13 PM

Actually Abev brought up a very good point that had me curious when he wrote: Dont forget to share with us the size difference in what makes a local point in Buffalo and what makes a local point in NY.

That's exactly what I did when I included how in football ratings more people in Buffalo watched the Giants-Carolina NFC playoff game in their market as opposed to the NYC market.

Thanks for the credit, let me help you out. I didnt quite see where it said that a 1 rating in Buffalo = 6,400 TV HH and a 1 rating in NY = 737,000 TV HH( and a 1 rating in Nashville = 9,275 TV HH). So a 5 rating in Buffalo = 32,000 and a .5 in NY = 368,500. Nielsen (http://www.nielsenmedia.com/metered_markets.html)

I am not here to say who's better. I joined it when it was originally said the Rangers have seats available for Weds vs Ottawa, which may have been true at the time, but will be yet another 18,200. There are alot of things you can say bad about the Rangers, MSG, Dolan's, etc, but attendance isnt one of them.

JimEIV

02-06-2006, 02:27 PM

NYIsles1*

02-07-2006, 10:39 AM

Thanks for the credit, let me help you out. I didnt quite see where it said that a 1 rating in Buffalo = 6,400 TV HH and a 1 rating in NY = 737,000 TV HH( and a 1 rating in Nashville = 9,275 TV HH). So a 5 rating in Buffalo = 32,000 and a .5 in NY = 368,500. Nielsen (http://www.nielsenmedia.com/metered_markets.html)

Thanks for helping, but the football article clearly points out the ratings were higher for the Giants-Carolina game in Buffalo than they were in the NYC area, they go out of the way to make the point that many markets outdrew NYC for a Giants home playoff game.

Thats pretty good. Dont forget to share with us the size difference in what makes a local point in Buffalo and what makes a local point in NY.

I cannot tell you what makes a local point in Buffalo vs New York, I can tell you based on hockey in 03-04 they do not use the Nielsen chart you provided. This article from Newsday on 12/14/04 specifically tells us how many homes constitutes a ratings point locally for hockey games on Msg and Fsn and how many homes were tuned into Islander, Devil and Ranger hockey.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists (http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists)
12./14/2004

No NHL plus no Cablevision rebates doesn't add up

And unlike the public outcry over missing the high-profile Yankees, fewer subscribers are screaming about the lack of Rangers, Islanders and Devils telecasts. That's because substantially fewer viewers tune in: Last season, Rangers telecasts on MSG produced an average 0.75 rating, or about 60,000 homes. On FSNY, Islanders telecasts generated a 0.31 rating and the Devils earned a 0.26. When all three teams are in action, about 100,000 homes are watching.

Again, here is Newsday writer Neil Best recent article on 2005-06 ratings for local hockey.

Hockey Ratings in NY really, really low...
http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists (http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists)
NBC: One more shot with NHL

Numbers are down compared with 2003-04 for all three local teams, who have rated from a high of 0.54 for the Rangers on MSG to a dismal 0.13 for both the Isles and Devils on FSNY. It is not much better on OLN, the league's new national cable home, which averages 0.2.

And if your looking for a comparative with Yankee baseball on a day where YES only aired the Yankees pregame, even they made it a point to tell us how bad a mismatch things are here.

http://www.yesnetwork.com/network/news.asp?news_id=1444

YES' Yankees Coverage Beats Hockey
YES’ Yankees Playoff Pre-Game and Post-Game Shows Defeat Rangers, Islanders
and Devils Game Telecast Combined

Wednesday's Yankees pre-game show on YES (9-10 p.m. ET) generated a .8 household rating while the Rangers-Flyers telecast on OLN (7:30-10p) drew a .2 household rating, the Islanders-Sabres telecast on MSG Network (7-9:30 p.m. ET) garnered a .1 rating and the Devils-Penguins telecast on Fox Sports New York (7:30-10 p.m. ET) did a .2.

After the Yankees-Angels game, YES’ post-game show (1:15-2:15 a.m. ET) averaged a .3 rating in Adults 18-49. The aforementioned Rangers-Flyers telecast was below the reportable minimum in Adults 18-49 and both the Islanders-Sabres and Devils-Penguins telecasts generated .1s in Adults 18-49.

Source: Nielsen Media Research

brylin18

02-07-2006, 11:11 AM

JR#9*

02-07-2006, 11:27 AM

NYIsles1 has gone out of his way to research all of this information, and what is JR's response? - repeating "oh but your team is LAST in the NHL in attendance" over and over and over again. I just want to see how many variations of that theme can JR pull out of his ***. This is how this thread has been going so far for those of you who don't want to read the whole thing:

NYIsles1: statistics, links, attendance figures, ratings figures, newspaper articles, thoughtful commentary

JR#9: "oh but check THIS out NYIsles1.....I bet you didnt know that the Isles were last in attendance did you? ha ha ha"

Maybe the point is lost on you, wouldn't be suprised but the fact of the matter is that they are dead last in the NHL and you guys are not far behind and that simply leaves nothing left to be said.

Not going to say that you won't see empties here and there at the gardne, especially in the corporate seats which by the way are all season tix that are already paid for but you can't compare any empties at MSG to the absolute seas of empties you see both in LI or in NJ and NYISLES1 as usual is trying to drag the NYR's down to the NYI's level in this arguement and it couldn't be further from the truth.

NYISLES1 is always pulling up dated articles and selectively editing out parts that he wants to support his arguement but he's throwing out figures that by his own admission he doesn't know the are comprised of.

This is nothing new from this guy and there is a thread about him right now on the NYR board because everybody knows what a biased NYR basher he is.

Bottom line is the NVMC drew 10k last night and that was certainly a fudged # if anybody saw the game and this is against a conference rival and defending stanley cup champ...when MSG has 10k in it for ANY game you guys can get back to me. :sarcasm:

JR#9*

02-07-2006, 11:34 AM

Thanks for helping, but the football article clearly points out the ratings were higher for the Giants-Carolina game in Buffalo than they were in the NYC area, they go out of the way to make the point that many markets outdrew NYC for a Giants home playoff game.

I cannot tell you what makes a local point in Buffalo vs New York, I can tell you based on hockey in 03-04 they do not use the Nielsen chart you provided. This article from Newsday on 12/14/04 specifically tells us how many homes constitutes a ratings point locally for hockey games on Msg and Fsn and how many homes were tuned into Islander, Devil and Ranger hockey.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists (http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists)
12./14/2004

No NHL plus no Cablevision rebates doesn't add up

And unlike the public outcry over missing the high-profile Yankees, fewer subscribers are screaming about the lack of Rangers, Islanders and Devils telecasts. That's because substantially fewer viewers tune in: Last season, Rangers telecasts on MSG produced an average 0.75 rating, or about 60,000 homes. On FSNY, Islanders telecasts generated a 0.31 rating and the Devils earned a 0.26. When all three teams are in action, about 100,000 homes are watching.

Again, here is Newsday writer Neil Best recent article on 2005-06 ratings for local hockey.

Hockey Ratings in NY really, really low...
http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists (http://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...orts-columnists)
NBC: One more shot with NHL

Numbers are down compared with 2003-04 for all three local teams, who have rated from a high of 0.54 for the Rangers on MSG to a dismal 0.13 for both the Isles and Devils on FSNY. It is not much better on OLN, the league's new national cable home, which averages 0.2.

And if your looking for a comparative with Yankee baseball on a day where YES only aired the Yankees pregame, even they made it a point to tell us how bad a mismatch things are here.

http://www.yesnetwork.com/network/news.asp?news_id=1444

YES' Yankees Coverage Beats Hockey
YES’ Yankees Playoff Pre-Game and Post-Game Shows Defeat Rangers, Islanders
and Devils Game Telecast Combined

Wednesday's Yankees pre-game show on YES (9-10 p.m. ET) generated a .8 household rating while the Rangers-Flyers telecast on OLN (7:30-10p) drew a .2 household rating, the Islanders-Sabres telecast on MSG Network (7-9:30 p.m. ET) garnered a .1 rating and the Devils-Penguins telecast on Fox Sports New York (7:30-10 p.m. ET) did a .2.

After the Yankees-Angels game, YES’ post-game show (1:15-2:15 a.m. ET) averaged a .3 rating in Adults 18-49. The aforementioned Rangers-Flyers telecast was below the reportable minimum in Adults 18-49 and both the Islanders-Sabres and Devils-Penguins telecasts generated .1s in Adults 18-49.

Source: Nielsen Media Research

That a boy, draw comparison's to not only playoff footbal in your previous post but know your singling out what hockey, very much the 4th sport does against Yankee playoff baseball!!!!!

You really do some selective research to try and support your lame arguements if you can even call it that.

Playoff baseball is in sept-Oct, the very first few games of the NHL season so is this great research you did suppossed to mean anything worthwhile?

I'll tell you what does however, the Islander bandwagoners have once again jumped ship as shown by 10k showing up last night and if you tuned in you would see that there wasn't even that there.

You could've had entire sections to yourself last night and this vs a conference rival and defending stanley cup champs.

When you see 10k for ANY game at MSG you can respond with more of your biased nonsense, in the meantime I just look forward making the trek out to LI again to see guys like you humiliated in your own building when it is taken over as usual by NYR fans.