Serious Objection...

Wow, Pete you had to get that out, I can respect that. But don't misrepresent what I said to cover your original arguement.

What CHaos2k isn't telling you:

1.) Only half of the Lightning's top-6 forwards and only 2 if the Lightning's top-5 d-men from last year's playoff team came from Rick Dudley. CHaos2k also cheats by enlarging the Lightning's roster to 27 and including guys who had negligible contributions like Olvestad, Alexeev, and Keefe on the list of 15. When you value rate these players, as I did, you find it's a different story. No CHaos2k, Stan Neckar does not count the same as a Cullimore, Sarich, or Lukowich.


Pete, again I never published that roster of 27 players, that belongs to a poster named Crossbar. What was posted was:


http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=17113&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=7

Take a look at it Panthers fans: only 9 players on the Lightning's current 23 man roster came from Rick Dudley. LESS THAN HALF.

Why don't we show the opening night roster of the Lightning now? I mean if this is SO CLEARLY Rick Dudley's team, surely it will be dominated by Dudley's players, right?

1st line:
Cory Stillman: Trade (Feaster)
Brad Richards: Draft Pick (Espo/Demers/Murdoch)
Martin St. Louis: Free Agent (Dudley)

2nd line:
Dimitry Afanasenkov: Draft Pick (Espo/Demers/Murdoch)
Vincent Lecavalier: Draft Pick (Espo/Demers/Murdoch)
Ruslan Fedotenko: Trade (Feaster)

3rd Line:
Chris Dingman: Trade (Feaster)
Tim Taylor: Trade (Dudley)
Dave Andreychuk: Trade (Dudley)

4th Line:
Fredrik Modin: Trade (Dudley)
Martin Cibak: Draft Pick (Espo/Demers/Murdoch)
Ben Clymer: Free Agent (Dudley)

So less than half of the team's opening night forwards were Dudley acquisitions and only one guy on the scoring lines came from Dudley. Explain to me how this is "Dudley's team" again?

Defensemen:
Jassen Cullimore: Waivers (Espo/Demers)
Cory Sarich: Trade (Dudley)

Brad Lukowich: Trade (Feaster)
Pavel Kubina: Draft Pick (Espo/Demers/Murdoch)

Nolan Pratt: Trade (Dudley)
Dan Boyle: Trade (Dudley)

So only half of the d-men came from Dudley, two of whom you "genius" Panther fans have already said "suck" in Sarich and Pratt. And only one of the top-four defensemen from opening night were from Dudley. Explain to me how this is "Dudley's team" again?

Goaltender:
Nikolai Khabibulin: Trade(Dudley)

So only 9 of the 19 players that played on opening night came from Rick Dudley (LESS THAN HALF) and only THREE of them played in the key positions on the top two lines, top two pairings, or between the pipes on opening night.


This is very true. 9 players of the 19 that dressed opening night were acquired by Dudley. That is the point. I am not saying he built the WHOLE team, I said he contributed a large portion of it.


I complied with CHaos' little mealy mouthed whining to produce a list and factual evidence backing these claims on the Panther board. All I asked in exchange was a simple posting of Rick Dudley's career win/loss record as a GM. Not complicated. Not as time consuming as publishing a fully researched list. JUST SHOW US RICK DUDLEY'S W/L RECORD AS A GM IN THE NHL!!! But he has refused to honor that request with the same cowardice and hypocrisy which we all just saw in his claims "I never called Lightning fans stupid." and "I never called YOU stupid."

Just like when I ask him to show me just ONE Rick Dudley drafted player on the Lightning roster he glosses it over, ignores it, and misrepresents it by saying "I'm sorry you expect every player drafted to be an impact player." No CHaos2k, I expect just ONE freaking Rick Dudley drafted player to make the Lightning team, especially when there are FIVE on this team from what pundits always labeled a disasterous Espo/Demers/Murdoch regime. Is that unreasonable? Surely "Yoda, Master of the Draft(ing in the Front Row)" could produce even a #7 defenseman or a 13th or 14th forward on the roster, right?!?!? But no, actually he couldn't. And you're not man enough to fess up to that. And that's sad.



:rolleyes:

Again, Pete, I never talked about his drafting skills etc. you did. I think he has done a good job thus far for the Florida Panthers. The orginal problem was you again saying that Dudley was crap and did "NOTHING" for your team. Your were proven wrong again.

But I still posted this:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=19994

3) You sat there and said that Lecavalier couldn't have succeeded without the players Dudley provided. Where? I said that they contributed "MORE" than what you gave them credit for. This was never about Vinny, now, or ever. This I thought was about Rick Dudley? Am I wrong? What did you expect Dudley to do? There was a dispute with the coaching staff, right? He was stripped of the "C", almost dealt, and then got the idea of how this league is run. Should Dudley have played for him too? Never gave him a scoring winger? Ha. You named those provided yourself.

6) What I said was: 1/3 to 1/2 of your team was acquired by Dudley. WHAT?? It's true. Wow, thanks for proving me right. Again it does not matter what my opinion of your players are. It only matters (at this time anyways) what Jay Feaster's opinion is. And obviously, he thinks pretty highly of those guys. Hence, the spots on your roster. And then when you look at last years roster and include Prospal the precentage is even higher.

7) Again as you stated, 9 of your starting 18 are Dudley acquistions. I mean you wrote it, at least read what you yourself put down. I'll even give you the 19th man Grahame even though he didn't play. What can't you see about the makeup of your own team.

8) I never said Dudley's team, it's Feaster's team now isn't it? Yes. Rick Dudley works for the Florida Panthers, now. What is hilarious is the fact that even though you may not like Dudley and his moves is the fact that his moves are "STILL" paying dividends after two years away from the team. I can't defend all of Dudley's moves, every GM makes questionable moves. But, I can see from your own roster breakdowns that "SOME" of the moves he made helped get you were you are. Last year's division champions. Again congratulations. I don't expect you to kiss Dudley's ass or credit him with what you guys accomplished last year, but, he did help put the personnel in place to "HELP YOU" get where you got. That cannot be denied.

9) You again, are the only one that is stating that Dudley inhertied nothing. Where did I say that? Where was any of that said? What you said, was that Rick Dudley did "NOTHING" to help your team, when in actually it is he that has still the most influence on the players in your starting lineup, that is fact.

10) I am sorry he didn't draft anyone of substanial name power for you. You're right. I guess he didn't draft anyone good for you. Still half (or pretty close to it) of your current opening day roster was put into place with Dudley's management.

11) Yoda, Master of the Draft? Only Brian Burke and you have stated those words. Has he in my opinion done a quality job at the drafting table for the Florida Panthers? Yes I believe he has. For the Tampa Bay Lightning? You say no. Ok. For the Ottawa Senators? I don't know? You?

12) Regardless, of the crap you otherwise write, Rick Dudley has and still does have a hand with the skill and success of your Tampa Bay Lightning, through the players he acquired. My opinion on your players? It just doesn't matter in the scheme of things. I don't make the management calls for us and you don't make the calls for your team either.

13) As for his losing record at the NHL level with when he started his three different appointments as GM, with marginal teams (at those times) Ottawa only got better, Tampa Bay got better, and now Florida is getting better. I hope he stays here for a long time to see us develop. And I guess from your sentiments, that you should be praisng ALLA that he is no longer ruining the half team he helped create in Tampa. You know, the one your so proud of.

14) By the way, on a side note, I read your own post about how even you thought that Afansenkov should be in the minor's but he is a 2nd line winger.

15) Never was this a personal thing for me against Tampa Bay, but don't think you can come onto our board and spout some crap about our GM. He is building our team and he built some of yours. Like I said the proof is always in the pudding. And obviously, stats again don't lie. Enjoy.



You've worn out your welcome now, and I've worn out my foot from stomping a mudhole in you and the subsequent stress of taking it out and walking it dry. Sotnos my friend, you know what to do.

-Pete Choquette


That's right run and hide from your own words, again. All that is missing above would be a....?? WHAT!? It's "Stone Cold" Pete Choquette

:joker:

You went from:

- Criticising our GM and your former GM for some bad moves
- Then you said that Dudley never acquired anything of value
- Then you said the whole core of your team is Vinny, Brad, Jason, and Pavel.
- Then you went on to rip into former Lightning players (Vinny Prospal)
- Then you proved the whole player breakdown
- Then you called Dudley the Draft Master
- And now you want to run from it all.

I don't mind, it's probably better for you anyways. It sounds like you're all in a twist.

:D

go away

You done trolling yet?

You want my reply to your little 15 point sham? Its on the Panther board.

You went from:

- Criticising our GM and your former GM for some bad moves

Yes.

- Then you said that Dudley never acquired anything of value

Lie.

- Then you said the whole core of your team is Vinny, Brad, Jason, and Pavel.

Lie.

- Then you went on to rip into former Lightning players (Vinny Prospal)

Lie. I simply pointed out Prospal isn't playing well without Lecavalier and not vice versa.

- Then you proved the whole player breakdown

Which proved less than half the players on the team came from Dudley.

- Then you called Dudley the Draft Master

No, I called him Yoda, Master of Drafting in the Front Row as a slap back at the tag Burke gave him at the draft this year. Try and keep up.

- And now you want to run from it all.

I just don't want to watch you chase your own tail anymore. None of us do. In case you haven't figured it out, no one here is buying what you're selling. NO ONE. Even people who are slightly more sympathetic to Dudley than I am think you need to pack your **** up and get off this board.

See now, you have a hard time with the truth (and reading comprehension, and math for that matter), which isn't a great quality to begin with. And now that you're in the process of annoying a second board monitor after Heimy warned you not to restart the Shields thread on the Panther board and Sotnos has told you to end your little one man show here on the Lightning board, I'd have to say you're quickly becoming the most reviled troll on HF. My suggestion: quit while you're ahead before the rammifications become more than you are willing to bear.

-Pete Choquette

Why? Because you don't like my opinion?

:rolleyes:

You started this on our board, trolling for a fight. Now that you've been proven wrong you just won't admit to what you have said.

:dunno:

I will see you again Pete. Keep up your journalistic wonders. Rammifications I can't bear? What you're going to kill my for my opinion's on professional sports? I can't talk hockey wherever I am on HF becuase I like a different team? Brilliant. Don't hurt me through your computer Pete...

:rolleyes:

No, but I'm sure a third locked thread in under a week could lead to suspension of your posting privileges.

Again, no one here is buying what you're selling. I won the argument DAYS ago. Quit your trolling and move on.

-Pete Choquette

PS And we all now can confirm you were lying on the points above because if you weren't SURELY you could produce the posts to prove otherwise. But you can't. And that's why everyone here knows you're a lying liar.

No, but I'm sure a third locked thread in under a week could lead to suspension of your posting privileges.

Again, no one here is buying what you're selling. I won the argument DAYS ago. Quit your trolling and move on.

-Pete Choquette

PS And we all now can confirm you were lying on the points above because if you weren't SURELY you could produce the posts to prove otherwise. But you can't. And that's why everyone here knows you're a lying liar.


Sorry Pete, If you want to break down post by post what you said and what I said, go ahead. You were proven wrong on our board and your continuing reluctance to acknwoledge your own words is pathetic at best. I don't need to sell anything. It was never my point. You were the one to orginially cause trouble and that is why the first thread was locked, because even after Panther and Lightning fans alike proved you wrong you still wouldn't let it go. As for the second locked thread that, again, was at your own request. That is what happened. Regardless of what you continue to post. Deal with it.

:rolleyes:

See now, you won't even try and back your lies up now. Its a head fake just like, "I'm sorry you think every draft pick you take needs to turn into a superstar." to try and deflect attention away from the fact that all I asked was if ONE Dudley draft pick even made the team. Now its "I don't have the time to try and substantiate my lies, er, points."

If I said Cullimore, Kubina, Lecavalier, and Richards were the core of the team as you claim, SURELY you can produce the post just as I produced the posts when you got convenient amnesia about calling Lightning fans and myself stupid. If you can produce them, maybe you have a point. If you can't, you're a LIAR.

Go ahead, prove to us you're more than a lying troll. And while you're at it, HONOR my request and post Dudley's W/L record. But if you're unwilling to do so, then at least have the dignity to leave this board in peace rather than throwing a temper tantrum like a 3 year old.

Choice is yours.

-Pete Choquette

See now, you won't even try and back your lies up now. Its a head fake just like, "I'm sorry you think every draft pick you take needs to turn into a superstar." to try and deflect attention away from the fact that all I asked was if ONE Dudley draft pick even made the team. Now its "I don't have the time to try and substantiate my lies, er, points."

If I said Cullimore, Kubina, Lecavalier, and Richards were the core of the team as you claim, SURELY you can produce the post just as I produced the posts when you got convenient amnesia about calling Lightning fans and myself stupid. If you can produce them, maybe you have a point. If you can't, you're a LIAR.

Go ahead, prove to us you're more than a lying troll. And while you're at it, HONOR my request and post Dudley's W/L record. But if you're unwilling to do so, then at least have the dignity to leave this board in peace rather than throwing a temper tantrum like a 3 year old.

Choice is yours.

-Pete Choquette


How many times do we need to go over this?

This is your post:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=293341&postcount=35

Quote:
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Comparing Alexeev to Fedotenko is ridiculous!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alexeev has scored less points in his ENTIRE CAREER than Fedotenko did last season alone.

Anyway, you're missing the point. When your GM trades the #1 overall pick you should have more than 6 points of production left from the deal just 3 years later. True?
Quote:
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but in the end, did he not bring in the players??
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He did not. What part of "He inherited Lecavalier, Richards, Kubina, and Cullimore." don't you understand?

And while you deride the trade, there is no doubt that Feaster acquisitions like Fedotenko, Lukowich, Roy, and Grahame were key to the Lightning's division title run.

-Pete Choquette

That was before I even commented on the thread. Did he NOT bring in the players? You said no. Just look at it.

Then I said:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=293772&postcount=39

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swedish Bolt Fan
One can always hope but i wouldnt bet on that one with the trackrecord he have. Once he have felt in love with a prospect he can never let it go even if it is a bust. See Biron and Kudroc.
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Or Boyle, St. Louis, Prospal (Last Year), etc.? Sometimes all players need is a change of scenery. I would've thought that since most of your team have been consisted of cast-offs for years that you fans would have a little more understanding of how the development of players works.


This was my first post on the matter. All I said was that you are forgeting alot of important players out of your Division Title run, for the sole purpose that they were Dudley pick-ups and you didn't like it.

:rolleyes:

Then I tried to agree to disagree...

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=294692&postcount=43

I'll tell you what. You're right. Go to bed tonight knowing that your rival has the worst GM in the NHL.

But, when this team comes to Tampa Bay and blows the doors off your team, game, after game, year, after year... Rest knowing that it was the exact same man that built your franchise and then destroyed you from down the interstate.

But no, your right Dudley is crap.

See your team soon enough, boys.


But again you couldn't let it go at that, because you hate Dudley.

:rolleyes:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=295486&postcount=46

Quote:
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Even Feaster knows TB was built by Dudley and he still crys about it in the newspapers.
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Links? Quotes? Evidence? None. You're pulling this one out of your *** Panthers fan.
Quote:
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and I'll even argue Andre Roy was someone Dudley had set on the table to bring in since he was one of Dudley's acquisitions in Ottawa.
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One he was always COMPLETELY UNABLE to get whilst in Tampa. Feaster stepped in and got him for the low low price of Juha Ylonen within his first 60 days in the job. That's right, Feaster accomplished in under 60 days what Dudley couldn't in over 2-1/2 years.
Quote:
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If Dudley did not get rid of Sillinger (who has always been a minus the last couple years to now) you would not be talking about Richards as much because he would never have got a chance to fully blossem into the player he is today.
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Oh my Lord!

Rick Dudley almost didn't even sign Brad Richards. Had not Richards dominated the Memorial Cup finals he would've been allowed to re-enter the draft because Dudley had such a major bias against draft picks that came from the previous regime. What a HORRIBLY pathetic little bout of revisionist history this little nugget of wisdom you plooped is!
Quote:
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Also Dudley was trying to honor Vinny's *TRADE REQUEST*,
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Which is like treating the symptoms instead of the disease. It was FEASTER who threw the gauntlet down on Tortorella about bashing Lecavalier in the media and THAT was the turning point in the relationship between the Lightning and Lecavalier. Dudley was either TOO STUPID or too much of a COWARD to stand up to Coach Tortorella... and instead decided it would be a smart thing to give away one of the 10 best young talents in the game. Bravo Dudley! What a "genius" indeed!
Quote:
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You complain about Aucoin? You could have been set on D for years with Joni Pitkanen
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We won a DIVISION TITLE in part because of the depth brought in for that trade. Tell me Panthers fan, how many DIVISION TITLES has Dudley won between Tampa and the Panthers? In how many years?

Feaster is 1-for-1 in full seasons he's presided over. So deride that deal all you want... but he got RESULTS from that trade. Dudley's two trades of high picks amounted in basically a hill full of squat so far.
Quote:
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Hey is getting rid of Hurme and replacing him with Shields any different than Feaster getting rid of Prospal and replacing him with Stillman?
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Yes. Stillman has always been a better goalscorer throughout his career and has been a more consistent producer year to year than Prospal ever has been. You can make the honest argument that Stillman could be an upgrade over Prospal.

Shields is an older, less accomplished, journeyman goaltender who has failed everywhere he's gone now. Was he worth a better young netminder who many of you admit could be a starter somewhere in the near future? Rhetorical question Panthers fan.
Quote:
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At least Dudley isn't so desperate for players that he trys to luck in by bringing in St.Louis' former linemate what happened to all that depth Feaster brought in?
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They now have Alex Svitov, Jimmie Olvestad, Shane Willis, and Nikita Alexeev all sitting in the minors and all of whom have played at least 60 games in the NHL. IN THE MINORS. If you can't see that as depth, then you're completely blind! And that's not even to mention two guys who were top flight scorers in the Finnish league like Perrin and Somervuori who could also be early callups too.

Do you have depth like that Panthers fan? Not PROSPECTS, legitimate NHL or European pro proven players 6 deep who you can recall on a moments notice. Do you? No? Then shoosh.
Quote:
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Also a good job pointing out that they were complaining that Dudley "ruined their defense" when their horrible GM lost the opportunity to draft IMO, the second best defensive prospect in the NHL (2nd to JBo of course).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tell me something, how many 19 year old prospect d-men make an all-star caliber impact their first year? Can play 30 minutes a night when asked? Can get 30 points and play the power play on the first unit? Today, right now, in the present, with the Lightning as DIVISION CHAMPIONS looking into move into the elite level of teams, I'd rather have Adrian Aucoin than the promise of Pitkanen which might only be realized 4-5 years off into the distant future.

But that's the bill of good Dudley sells you Panthers fans, and you buy it don't you? Prospects, prospects, prospects. Why WIN today when you can be perpetually building for a tomorrow that may never come?

Just remember Panthers fans, when you sit here and smugly talk about a Bouwmeester, or even a Pitkanen, that for every Cory Sarich who made it in Tampa Bay (and only after 3 years of painful development btw) there are two Kristian Kudrocs, Mathieu Birons, Bryan Muirs, Sascha Gocs, Paul Maras, and Josef Boumediennes, all of whom have Dudley to thank for in some case the stunting and in others for the ruination of their careers.

So you go rah rah about how Rick Dudley is SO smart for piling prospects and picks, and you try to paint Jay Feaster as an idiot for going after NHL talent instead... but just remember which one of our teams is raising a championship banner on opening night too.

-Pete Choquette

Even though this wasn't a responce to anything that I had said, it continues to prove the following:

- Then you said that Dudley never acquired anything of value
- You said he never drafted anyone of note.

Then you go on to say that those same players, the same crap ones that Dudley drafted were legitimate NHL forwards. You said it. Not me. You said they were legit not me. So if anything you are going against your own opinion that Dudley never drafted anyone for Tampa but then in the same breath call the NHL proven forwards. Funny. The two statements don't match do they?

I returned with the following post.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=296608&postcount=50

Sorry, but 60 games in the league is far from proven talent in the NHL..

Why fight it?

You know we suck. Leave it be.

Why don't you ask Feaster were your whole minor league system is?

Oh but we can drop 6 guys a piece on 2-3 teams playing and coached by different organizations. That doesn't help develop your prospects.

Weiss 23 points = Svitov 8 points...

8 points = NHL regular, proven depth forward...

Good job at producing fourth line forwards froma top 3 draft pick. Kudos to you.

I am the one stating that they are not, NHL proven forwards. I am the one basically again telling you that these guys drafted by Dudley were not legit. Does that sound like the guy that is trying to say Dudley is the Master of the Draft? No, but you again state how Dudley did nothing (draft wise) for your team. I backed you up there. So were am I lying on that point Pete?

At this point in time you resort again to name-calling to try to get the upper hand in the arguement you started. Ever heard the phrase don't pick a fight with a bigger dog? I thought not, you posted this gem...

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=301135&postcount=57

Quote:
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you lose your credibility when you defend the pitkanin deal
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You lose credibility when you can't even spell Pitkanen's name correctly.
Quote:
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the fact is that feaster hasnt made any good deals
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You're right, John Grahame for a 6th rounder was an awful deal. Boston made out like THIEVES on that one
Quote:
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I will have time to make a more complete post on this later, but I hate to break the news that a GM can't make that quick of an impact to help you win the division.
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He can certainly LOSE the division or a playoff spot for you by constant unwise interventions. See: Dudley, Rick.
Quote:
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Also, you have it backwards. For every Paul Mara, there are two Andreas Lilja's.
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No, I had the ratio right. And would that be the same Andreas Lilja who struggled through camp and the ex-games and whom the Panthers organization was unhappy with so far this season? Golly gee, I think it is.
Quote:
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Why don't you ask Feaster were your whole minor league system is?
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Why don't I ask Rick Dudley why he entered into the agreement with Springfield that began the whole joint-affiliation fiasco to begin with?
Quote:
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Good job at producing fourth line forwards froma top 3 draft pick. Kudos to you.
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Hmmmm Weiss is starting the year in the AHL too? Go figure. I guess he must be just a future 4th liner too by your standards.
Quote:
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Yes, let's be proud of winning a division title from the weakest division in the league.
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Its more than Dudley has managed to do in what now? 4 years in the division between two stops?

And I'm not just proud of the title. Finishing 23 points ahead of the Panthers and kicking the crap out of you in the season series was pretty gratifying too.

It will be when we do again this year too.
Quote:
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As for Aucoin, he hasn't done jack except
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1.) Lead the Islanders in ice time two years running.
2.) Score 34 and 35 points respectively in both seasons since leaving the Lightning.
3.) Anchor their righty shot point position on the power play.

You're right Panthers fan, he SUCKS.
Quote:
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And as for the Fedotenko trade. What else did you get from that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam Henrich, Gerard Dicaire, and Jay Rosehill. Thanks for asking.
Quote:
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To expect these players to develop into full fledged NHL stars so quickly really shows that you guys on the west coast no less than you think.
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It was YOUR OWN FANS who were deriding Alexeev and Svitov! My goodness, this really shows you guys on the east coast would've scored terribly on the reading comprehension portion of the FCAT's if they had them back in the day.
Quote:
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LOL, Rochester wanted to deal with a stable organization. Yes, I did read up on it, and a lot of it. They thought of splittin from Buffalo, cause they weren't gettin the talent levels they felt they deserved, plus the money problems. They evidently didn't feel they'd get anything better from a franchise that trade Pitkanen for two drafts picks and Fedotenko and really only have Feds to show for it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually Golisano promised them a series of lucrative regional promotional incentives between the Sabres and Americans including one or two ex-games a year to be played in Rochester. THAT and the potential sponsor pull out is what swung the deal in the favor of Buffalo.

And we have Lukowich, Henrich, Dicaire, and Rosehill to show for it too. Please Panther fan, get your facts straight.

-Pete Choquette

Again, you mixed in many different posts from seperate users to try to trun your opinion true. Focus on what I said Pete. I did for your posts.

:rolleyes:

Again I tried to let you out of this conversation, that you yourself couldn't keep straight even as far as who said what:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=306665&postcount=60

We aren't the fans on another team's board trying to cause trouble.

If we and Dudley are soooo bad, then what else is their to say?

All we are saying is that, don't come onto our board and criticize us/our GM when your GM has made as many questionable calls in his illustrious career.

And don't tell us you guys don't need Pitkanen. Your GM searched all summer for a D-Man, and came up with Trepanier (Another Florida Cast-Off), Laukkanen, and Darren Rumble?

Yeah, Pitkanen is definently below these guys talent-wise.

Hell, the only one I wouldn't take him over on our team is J-Bo.

But Feaster knows all...

That could have been it but, when you are down you just keep digging deeper, no facts just BS name-calling:

Quote:
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The only reason Lilja was a borderline player is because Dudley has brought SO MUCH depth to our blueline that good players were nearly losing their spots.
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Ha! Do you Panthers fans believe your own BS? No team that carries Mathieu Biron and a broken down old man like Lyle Odelein on their opening night roster has ANY reason to boast about their depth at the blueline position.

Know what else is funny Panthers fan? Rick Dudley managed to lose 3 goaltenders in less than a week for NOTHING and you're still defending him. Truly sad.

-Pete Choquette

I played that game too, I admit it:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=317986&postcount=65

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swedish Bolt Fan
But he did all this work of losing 3 goalies in a cple days to save $$ so he could sign Horton cmon we are so stupid that we dont see such obvious things

It was all planned from start so he could get Horton in. Makes me scared what is the "planned" move to get Ovechkin to sign later on
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, watch out for the depth of another defense too....

Cullimore - Kubina
Boyle - Laukkanen
Rumble - Trepanier

Am I missing anyone from this top rated defense?

As I have said all along, we'll see when we meet for the first time. But I have to say that our defense did beat your full NHL sqaud in the last game. And sorry but the changing of your fourth line players does not mean you had a weak linup that night.

Oh no, Afanasenkov...

You continued it on further:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=320174&postcount=72

Quote:
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Am I missing anyone from this top rated defense?
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Cory Sarich, Brad Lukowich, and Nolan Pratt... all three of whom are better than Mathieu Biron and Lyle Odelein. Trepanier was acquired for the Hershey Bears, not that you'd know anything about that.
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Oh no, Afanasenkov...
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Scored a goal opening night, again, not that you'd know anything about that.
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What's truly sad is that you refuse to acknowledge that your team was built by Dudley.
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WHAT PART OF "HE INHERITED LECAVALIER, RICHARDS, KUBINA, AND CULLIMORE" DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Hell, he even inherited Afanasenkov too while we're at it.
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you don't realize that Dudley has done more for your team
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He did more in three years to assure we'd be picking on the front row at the draft than any GM in Lightning history, yes. What a great man
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Look at our potential now.
we're almost a powerhouse.
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Yes, the league trembles before the might of the league's fourth worst record last year.

-Pete Choquette

Followed by my stating of:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=321101&postcount=74

Listen Petey...

Try not to combine two or three peoples messages to try to slap together some semblance of a post....

Nolan Pratt is a starter nowhere else but Tampa Bay, same goes for Lukowich and that dynamo Stan Neckar that had been with you for years.

Pascal Trepanier is for Hershey? Why would a GM got out a sign a veteran DMan for a AHL team that he doesn't even have a say in as far as even the coaching goes??

Don't tell me what I know or don't know about your team.

Biron may not be as physical as Sarich but at least he doesn't have a set of stone hands. What is the facsination you Tampa fans have with Biron anyways. Oh yes, the Aucoin deal. Boo Hoo. You keep saying how bad he sucks and we suck. If anything you should be glad we have him.

If we are so bad what else is there to discuss?

I keep telling you that we will see when we meet up in the regular season series.

I guess you are just upset that for everyone on your team that Dudley didn't acquire we helped develop in our minor league system.

Remember what that's like?

Lecavalier, Richards, Kubina, Cullimore would win jack without the players Dudley acquired. Hell only Vincent, and Brad would be considered cornerstone pieces.

You bore me with your constant complaining. You would think that a team with so much positive going for it, would have less fans complaining about the distant past instead of the future.

Call me when your top prospect Holmqvist wins the Norris.

Nice additions in Somervouri and Perrin too, nice gamble, at least Dudley acquires players with future potential instead of basing it upon players past friends.

Then you started again:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=321855&postcount=75

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Actually, I will argue that Odelien is just as good as any of the dmen you named.
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Maybe he was, FIVE YEARS AGO. Not now though. He's horrible now.
Quote:
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Try not to combine two or three peoples messages to try to slap together some semblance of a post....
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Try not to sit here defending Dudley like one large monolithic community of sheep bleating his praises in unison, and maybe I might treat you like individuals. But until then, no.
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Nolan Pratt is a starter nowhere else but Tampa Bay, same goes for Lukowich
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Really? Last I checked Lukowich was in the top-6 for three seasons on an elite level team in Dallas before coming to the Lightning. Do you even know who Brad Lukowich is? Better yet, do you even know your OWN name?

And as for Pratt, he was way ahead of Biron on the Lightning's depth chart when he was in Tampa, so if that big pascifist pylon is in your lineup, Nolan Pratt surely could be playing for the Panthers too.
Quote:
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Pascal Trepanier is for Hershey? Why would a GM got out a sign a veteran DMan for a AHL team that he doesn't even have a say in as far as even the coaching goes??
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Because of his past ties to the Hershey organization and his contractual promise to provide someone to fill an AHL veteran spot as a part of the partial affiliation agreement?

Remind me who started the partial affiliation agreements where the Lightning have no head coaching say after the Vipers shut down? Who? Rick Dudley? Say it ain't so!
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Biron may not be as physical as Sarich but at least he doesn't have a set of stone hands.
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Well golly, what's this? Cory Sarich had as many goals last year as Biron has IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER?

Do you ever THINK before you blurt embarassingly stupid insults/comparisons about players Panthers fan? Nevemind, I already know the answer.
Quote:
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Lecavalier, Richards, Kubina, Cullimore would win jack without the players Dudley acquired.
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Hmmm, looking at the opening night lineup for the Lightning: 5 of 6 guys on the top two lines were non-Dudley players. Half of the defensemen were non-Dudley players. Explain to me how this is so clearly Rick Dudley's team? How we couldn't "win jack" without Rick Dudley's players?

Let me reiterate that: we tooled Boston 5-1 with a team where 5 of 6 guys on the top two lines were non-Dudley players and half the d-men were non-Dudley players. Is this sinking in yet Panther fan? This is NOT Rick Dudley's team.

Your opening night Lightning goal scorers:
Stillman 2 goals: Feaster pickup.
Afanasenkov 1 goal:Espo/Demers/Murdoch draft pick.
Richards 1 goal: Espo/Demers/Murdoch draft pick.
Taylor 1 goal: WOW! 1 goal in 5 came from a Dudley acquisition. Jesus we owe him SUCH a debt of gratitude! ::sarcasm dripping::
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Hell only Vincent, and Brad would be considered cornerstone pieces.
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Show me a Dudley era Lightning draft pick who is better. Christ, I'll make it even easier: show me a Dudley era Lightning draft pick who is even better than Pavel Kubina. There hasn't been one that's proven they are yet. Ahhh, but that Rick Dudley, he's "Yoda, Master of the Draft" and all his draft picks turn into gold, right? You all should be so proud.
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Call me when your top prospect Holmqvist wins the Norris.
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And you call me when Dudley tries to trade Bouwmeester for a big goofy #5 (at best) defenseman and a 2nd round pick. If Dudley had the chutzpah/stupidity to try to trade Vincent Lecavalier, you can bet your life none of the bottomfeeders on your team are safe either.
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Nice additions in Somervouri and Perrin too, nice gamble, at least Dudley acquires players with future potential instead of basing it upon players past friends.
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You're right, Dudley only spent half his time in Tampa trying to give spots to ex-Vipers players like Ian Herbers, Dan Kesa, and Stan Drulia while handing over the coaching spot to Steve Ludzik. That Rick Dudley; you could NEVER accuse him of short sighted crony-ism.

I mean for crying out loud, you sat here in your last post and railed Stan Neckar when the only reason Dudley acquired Neckar in the first place was because he was an ex-Viper. And you have the audacity to accuse Feaster of doing something wrong by signing Perrin? I mean at least Perrin was one of the best players in the Finnish league last season. Explain to me what stiffs like Dan Kesa and Ian Herbers did to deserve shots under Dudley? That's a rhetorical question mostly, but I'd be ever so amused if you tried to answer it anyway.

-Pete Choquette

Petey...

You forget alot of things, just becuase you keep naming those same four players does not make them the core of your team.

Lukowich??

Now you are complaining abvout the players that were brought in even though you still contend that there were none of importance brought in by Dudley drafted or otherwise. Tell me, how can you proves previous posts right by contradicting yourself? It is all right here man. Take a look. You wrote it all.

I started getting a lot more agitated by this point in time but it still continued:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=322282&postcount=78

Neckar played for Ottawa too isn't he a huge DMan?

You're right though I can't remember my OWN name.

It is so sad to hear you complain on here about your teams own rival and their moves that you don't like. Boo Hoo.

I am so sorry that you feel slighted by Rick Dudley. Maybe we can set up a home visit for you and your fellow whinner Tampa Bay fans. And don't complain that he wasted draft picks on guys like Weekes and Cloutier when both are starters in this league.

Damn it, he acquired two future starting goaltenders and then when he knew that management and the fans had no patience he went out and acquired your starter now. When he came to Tampa you guys had no semblance of a team. He built depth in the organization which allowed him to deal for all the other pieces that supposedly aren't important to your team:

St. Louis, Boyle, Andreychuk, Taylor, Modin etc.

And looking at that list alone, I see all your veteran leadership (ie Odelein, Messier for us) your top DMan, and two top six wingers.

But they probably all play fourth line and thrid defensive pairings because Dudley acquired them. Uh huh. Notice how we don't put down your team? We don't need to. Just admit what the positives Dudley did for your team and call it a day.

And your right about the AHL deal, you probably wouldn't have an affiliate ad Dudley not steped in.

Do you even know your own team? I doubt it or at least you would be able to see that Dudley helped your organization out tremendously. All those years of losing and first round exits really got to you huh? I feel your pain. But don't worry, when we become overcrowded with our scoring forwards and DMen, I am sure you guys can pick up our scraps as always.

Maybe that's why Dudley came in the first place, he just got to skip the step of developing other teams garbage.

Lukowich, Pratt, and Sarich?

This is getting long, would you like me to continue?

How about you find the posts were I ever said that:

-Dudley was Yoda Master Of The Draft?
-Dudley deserves all the credit for your team last year
-Dudley drafted so many good players for you
-I'm sorry you think every draft pick you take needs to turn into a superstar

The whole thing basically boils down to this I said, you said BS:

Pete: Dudley is crap, he did nothing to help the team, the key players were in place when he got here.

Chaos2k: He did more than you're willing to admit. Boyle, Prospal, St. Louis, Andreychuk, Taylor etc. were significant portions of your team. Not that they were THE WHOLE team. I said he wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he did contribute more than you were willing to admit.

I have no problem with the fact you don't like him, but he did do more for your team than you stated, and I think in the just a little over a year in Florida has done the best job we have seen from a GM.

Not everyone has to like their ex GM, but admit that at least he had a hand in your guys' development. You were better from having him there than you were before he got there. Strictly looking at the records it is true.

Even your own TB fans wanted it to end:

TB_Fanatic:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=323507&postcount=86

It keeps coming back to the same crap. If I said Cullimore, Kubina, Lecavalier, and Richards were the core of the team as you claim, SURELY you can produce the post just as I produced the posts when you got convenient amnesia about calling Lightning fans and myself stupid. Is it not there Pete? Am I a liar now?

As for the W/L record as I said previously:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=326112&postcount=1

13) As for his losing record at the NHL level with when he started his three different appointments as GM, with marginal teams (at those times) Ottawa only got better, Tampa Bay got better, and now Florida is getting better. I hope he stays here for a long time to see us develop. And I guess from your sentiments, that you should be praisng ALLA that he is no longer ruining the half team he helped create in Tampa. You know, the one your so proud of.

Now, if you can tell me where I can find NHL Executive's Records Stats I would be happy to post them. But I don't need to look to find that IMO I believe he doesn't have a .500 record, but, that is a mute point. It was never about that for you or me until you were proven wrong on every other point you made.

The proof is right here. How can you deny what you wrote?

:dunno:

I'm not about to get into your fight here, but that has got to be the longest post ever.

I'm not about to get into your fight here, but that has got to be the longest post ever.

:lol:

I do feel bad sort of, but it wouldn't have the same effect with just the links. Everyone can see what was REALLY written.

Sotnos, really, I am sorry for the length, but by no means am I trolling here and it is proven by that previous post(s). And I left you a PM concerning it.

The proof is in the pudding.

I have tried to refrain from the name-calling and I don't think that it is that bad of a post concerning the topic at hand. There may never be a resolution to this, but, I will not be misrepresented as a know nothing homer. Just because someone else cannot prove their own case. Opinion's aside, it all boils down to what was ACTUALLY written.

How many times do we need to go over this?

This is your post:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=293341&postcount=35

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Comparing Alexeev to Fedotenko is ridiculous!
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Alexeev has scored less points in his ENTIRE CAREER than Fedotenko did last season alone.

Anyway, you're missing the point. When your GM trades the #1 overall pick you should have more than 6 points of production left from the deal just 3 years later. True?
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but in the end, did he not bring in the players??
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He did not. What part of "He inherited Lecavalier, Richards, Kubina, and Cullimore." don't you understand?

And while you deride the trade, there is no doubt that Feaster acquisitions like Fedotenko, Lukowich, Roy, and Grahame were key to the Lightning's division title run.

-Pete Choquette

That was before I even commented on the thread. Did he NOT bring in the players? You said no. Just look at it.

Then I said:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=293772&postcount=39

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swedish Bolt Fan
One can always hope but i wouldnt bet on that one with the trackrecord he have. Once he have felt in love with a prospect he can never let it go even if it is a bust. See Biron and Kudroc.
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Or Boyle, St. Louis, Prospal (Last Year), etc.? Sometimes all players need is a change of scenery. I would've thought that since most of your team have been consisted of cast-offs for years that you fans would have a little more understanding of how the development of players works.


This was my first post on the matter. All I said was that you are forgeting alot of important players out of your Division Title run, for the sole purpose that they were Dudley pick-ups and you didn't like it.

:rolleyes:

Then I tried to agree to disagree...

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=294692&postcount=43

I'll tell you what. You're right. Go to bed tonight knowing that your rival has the worst GM in the NHL.

But, when this team comes to Tampa Bay and blows the doors off your team, game, after game, year, after year... Rest knowing that it was the exact same man that built your franchise and then destroyed you from down the interstate.

But no, your right Dudley is crap.

See your team soon enough, boys.


But again you couldn't let it go at that, because you hate Dudley.

:rolleyes:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=295486&postcount=46

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Even Feaster knows TB was built by Dudley and he still crys about it in the newspapers.
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Links? Quotes? Evidence? None. You're pulling this one out of your *** Panthers fan.
Quote:
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and I'll even argue Andre Roy was someone Dudley had set on the table to bring in since he was one of Dudley's acquisitions in Ottawa.
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One he was always COMPLETELY UNABLE to get whilst in Tampa. Feaster stepped in and got him for the low low price of Juha Ylonen within his first 60 days in the job. That's right, Feaster accomplished in under 60 days what Dudley couldn't in over 2-1/2 years.
Quote:
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If Dudley did not get rid of Sillinger (who has always been a minus the last couple years to now) you would not be talking about Richards as much because he would never have got a chance to fully blossem into the player he is today.
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Oh my Lord!

Rick Dudley almost didn't even sign Brad Richards. Had not Richards dominated the Memorial Cup finals he would've been allowed to re-enter the draft because Dudley had such a major bias against draft picks that came from the previous regime. What a HORRIBLY pathetic little bout of revisionist history this little nugget of wisdom you plooped is!
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Also Dudley was trying to honor Vinny's *TRADE REQUEST*,
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Which is like treating the symptoms instead of the disease. It was FEASTER who threw the gauntlet down on Tortorella about bashing Lecavalier in the media and THAT was the turning point in the relationship between the Lightning and Lecavalier. Dudley was either TOO STUPID or too much of a COWARD to stand up to Coach Tortorella... and instead decided it would be a smart thing to give away one of the 10 best young talents in the game. Bravo Dudley! What a "genius" indeed!
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You complain about Aucoin? You could have been set on D for years with Joni Pitkanen
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We won a DIVISION TITLE in part because of the depth brought in for that trade. Tell me Panthers fan, how many DIVISION TITLES has Dudley won between Tampa and the Panthers? In how many years?

Feaster is 1-for-1 in full seasons he's presided over. So deride that deal all you want... but he got RESULTS from that trade. Dudley's two trades of high picks amounted in basically a hill full of squat so far.
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Hey is getting rid of Hurme and replacing him with Shields any different than Feaster getting rid of Prospal and replacing him with Stillman?
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Yes. Stillman has always been a better goalscorer throughout his career and has been a more consistent producer year to year than Prospal ever has been. You can make the honest argument that Stillman could be an upgrade over Prospal.

Shields is an older, less accomplished, journeyman goaltender who has failed everywhere he's gone now. Was he worth a better young netminder who many of you admit could be a starter somewhere in the near future? Rhetorical question Panthers fan.
Quote:
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At least Dudley isn't so desperate for players that he trys to luck in by bringing in St.Louis' former linemate what happened to all that depth Feaster brought in?
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They now have Alex Svitov, Jimmie Olvestad, Shane Willis, and Nikita Alexeev all sitting in the minors and all of whom have played at least 60 games in the NHL. IN THE MINORS. If you can't see that as depth, then you're completely blind! And that's not even to mention two guys who were top flight scorers in the Finnish league like Perrin and Somervuori who could also be early callups too.

Do you have depth like that Panthers fan? Not PROSPECTS, legitimate NHL or European pro proven players 6 deep who you can recall on a moments notice. Do you? No? Then shoosh.
Quote:
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Also a good job pointing out that they were complaining that Dudley "ruined their defense" when their horrible GM lost the opportunity to draft IMO, the second best defensive prospect in the NHL (2nd to JBo of course).
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Tell me something, how many 19 year old prospect d-men make an all-star caliber impact their first year? Can play 30 minutes a night when asked? Can get 30 points and play the power play on the first unit? Today, right now, in the present, with the Lightning as DIVISION CHAMPIONS looking into move into the elite level of teams, I'd rather have Adrian Aucoin than the promise of Pitkanen which might only be realized 4-5 years off into the distant future.

But that's the bill of good Dudley sells you Panthers fans, and you buy it don't you? Prospects, prospects, prospects. Why WIN today when you can be perpetually building for a tomorrow that may never come?

Just remember Panthers fans, when you sit here and smugly talk about a Bouwmeester, or even a Pitkanen, that for every Cory Sarich who made it in Tampa Bay (and only after 3 years of painful development btw) there are two Kristian Kudrocs, Mathieu Birons, Bryan Muirs, Sascha Gocs, Paul Maras, and Josef Boumediennes, all of whom have Dudley to thank for in some case the stunting and in others for the ruination of their careers.

So you go rah rah about how Rick Dudley is SO smart for piling prospects and picks, and you try to paint Jay Feaster as an idiot for going after NHL talent instead... but just remember which one of our teams is raising a championship banner on opening night too.

-Pete Choquette

Even though this wasn't a responce to anything that I had said, it continues to prove the following:

- Then you said that Dudley never acquired anything of value
- You said he never drafted anyone of note.

Then you go on to say that those same players, the same crap ones that Dudley drafted were legitimate NHL forwards. You said it. Not me. You said they were legit not me. So if anything you are going against your own opinion that Dudley never drafted anyone for Tampa but then in the same breath call the NHL proven forwards. Funny. The two statements don't match do they?

I returned with the following post.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=296608&postcount=50

Sorry, but 60 games in the league is far from proven talent in the NHL..

Why fight it?

You know we suck. Leave it be.

Why don't you ask Feaster were your whole minor league system is?

Oh but we can drop 6 guys a piece on 2-3 teams playing and coached by different organizations. That doesn't help develop your prospects.

Weiss 23 points = Svitov 8 points...

8 points = NHL regular, proven depth forward...

Good job at producing fourth line forwards froma top 3 draft pick. Kudos to you.

I am the one stating that they are not, NHL proven forwards. I am the one basically again telling you that these guys drafted by Dudley were not legit. Does that sound like the guy that is trying to say Dudley is the Master of the Draft? No, but you again state how Dudley did nothing (draft wise) for your team. I backed you up there. So were am I lying on that point Pete?

At this point in time you resort again to name-calling to try to get the upper hand in the arguement you started. Ever heard the phrase don't pick a fight with a bigger dog? I thought not, you posted this gem...

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=301135&postcount=57

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you lose your credibility when you defend the pitkanin deal
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You lose credibility when you can't even spell Pitkanen's name correctly.
Quote:
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the fact is that feaster hasnt made any good deals
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You're right, John Grahame for a 6th rounder was an awful deal. Boston made out like THIEVES on that one
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I will have time to make a more complete post on this later, but I hate to break the news that a GM can't make that quick of an impact to help you win the division.
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He can certainly LOSE the division or a playoff spot for you by constant unwise interventions. See: Dudley, Rick.
Quote:
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Also, you have it backwards. For every Paul Mara, there are two Andreas Lilja's.
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No, I had the ratio right. And would that be the same Andreas Lilja who struggled through camp and the ex-games and whom the Panthers organization was unhappy with so far this season? Golly gee, I think it is.
Quote:
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Why don't you ask Feaster were your whole minor league system is?
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Why don't I ask Rick Dudley why he entered into the agreement with Springfield that began the whole joint-affiliation fiasco to begin with?
Quote:
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Good job at producing fourth line forwards froma top 3 draft pick. Kudos to you.
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Hmmmm Weiss is starting the year in the AHL too? Go figure. I guess he must be just a future 4th liner too by your standards.
Quote:
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Yes, let's be proud of winning a division title from the weakest division in the league.
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Its more than Dudley has managed to do in what now? 4 years in the division between two stops?

And I'm not just proud of the title. Finishing 23 points ahead of the Panthers and kicking the crap out of you in the season series was pretty gratifying too.

It will be when we do again this year too.
Quote:
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As for Aucoin, he hasn't done jack except
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1.) Lead the Islanders in ice time two years running.
2.) Score 34 and 35 points respectively in both seasons since leaving the Lightning.
3.) Anchor their righty shot point position on the power play.

You're right Panthers fan, he SUCKS.
Quote:
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And as for the Fedotenko trade. What else did you get from that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam Henrich, Gerard Dicaire, and Jay Rosehill. Thanks for asking.
Quote:
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To expect these players to develop into full fledged NHL stars so quickly really shows that you guys on the west coast no less than you think.
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It was YOUR OWN FANS who were deriding Alexeev and Svitov! My goodness, this really shows you guys on the east coast would've scored terribly on the reading comprehension portion of the FCAT's if they had them back in the day.
Quote:
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LOL, Rochester wanted to deal with a stable organization. Yes, I did read up on it, and a lot of it. They thought of splittin from Buffalo, cause they weren't gettin the talent levels they felt they deserved, plus the money problems. They evidently didn't feel they'd get anything better from a franchise that trade Pitkanen for two drafts picks and Fedotenko and really only have Feds to show for it.
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Actually Golisano promised them a series of lucrative regional promotional incentives between the Sabres and Americans including one or two ex-games a year to be played in Rochester. THAT and the potential sponsor pull out is what swung the deal in the favor of Buffalo.

And we have Lukowich, Henrich, Dicaire, and Rosehill to show for it too. Please Panther fan, get your facts straight.

-Pete Choquette

Again, you mixed in many different posts from seperate users to try to trun your opinion true. Focus on what I said Pete. I did for your posts.

:rolleyes:

Again I tried to let you out of this conversation, that you yourself couldn't keep straight even as far as who said what:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=306665&postcount=60

We aren't the fans on another team's board trying to cause trouble.

If we and Dudley are soooo bad, then what else is their to say?

All we are saying is that, don't come onto our board and criticize us/our GM when your GM has made as many questionable calls in his illustrious career.

And don't tell us you guys don't need Pitkanen. Your GM searched all summer for a D-Man, and came up with Trepanier (Another Florida Cast-Off), Laukkanen, and Darren Rumble?

Yeah, Pitkanen is definently below these guys talent-wise.

Hell, the only one I wouldn't take him over on our team is J-Bo.

But Feaster knows all...

That could have been it but, when you are down you just keep digging deeper, no facts just BS name-calling:

Quote:
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The only reason Lilja was a borderline player is because Dudley has brought SO MUCH depth to our blueline that good players were nearly losing their spots.
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Ha! Do you Panthers fans believe your own BS? No team that carries Mathieu Biron and a broken down old man like Lyle Odelein on their opening night roster has ANY reason to boast about their depth at the blueline position.

Know what else is funny Panthers fan? Rick Dudley managed to lose 3 goaltenders in less than a week for NOTHING and you're still defending him. Truly sad.

-Pete Choquette

I played that game too, I admit it:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=317986&postcount=65

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swedish Bolt Fan
But he did all this work of losing 3 goalies in a cple days to save $$ so he could sign Horton cmon we are so stupid that we dont see such obvious things

It was all planned from start so he could get Horton in. Makes me scared what is the "planned" move to get Ovechkin to sign later on
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Yeah, watch out for the depth of another defense too....

Cullimore - Kubina
Boyle - Laukkanen
Rumble - Trepanier

Am I missing anyone from this top rated defense?

As I have said all along, we'll see when we meet for the first time. But I have to say that our defense did beat your full NHL sqaud in the last game. And sorry but the changing of your fourth line players does not mean you had a weak linup that night.

Oh no, Afanasenkov...

You continued it on further:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=320174&postcount=72

Quote:
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Am I missing anyone from this top rated defense?
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Cory Sarich, Brad Lukowich, and Nolan Pratt... all three of whom are better than Mathieu Biron and Lyle Odelein. Trepanier was acquired for the Hershey Bears, not that you'd know anything about that.
Quote:
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Oh no, Afanasenkov...
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Scored a goal opening night, again, not that you'd know anything about that.
Quote:
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What's truly sad is that you refuse to acknowledge that your team was built by Dudley.
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WHAT PART OF "HE INHERITED LECAVALIER, RICHARDS, KUBINA, AND CULLIMORE" DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Hell, he even inherited Afanasenkov too while we're at it.
Quote:
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you don't realize that Dudley has done more for your team
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He did more in three years to assure we'd be picking on the front row at the draft than any GM in Lightning history, yes. What a great man
Quote:
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Look at our potential now.
we're almost a powerhouse.
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Yes, the league trembles before the might of the league's fourth worst record last year.

-Pete Choquette

Followed by my stating of:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=321101&postcount=74

Listen Petey...

Try not to combine two or three peoples messages to try to slap together some semblance of a post....

Nolan Pratt is a starter nowhere else but Tampa Bay, same goes for Lukowich and that dynamo Stan Neckar that had been with you for years.

Pascal Trepanier is for Hershey? Why would a GM got out a sign a veteran DMan for a AHL team that he doesn't even have a say in as far as even the coaching goes??

Don't tell me what I know or don't know about your team.

Biron may not be as physical as Sarich but at least he doesn't have a set of stone hands. What is the facsination you Tampa fans have with Biron anyways. Oh yes, the Aucoin deal. Boo Hoo. You keep saying how bad he sucks and we suck. If anything you should be glad we have him.

If we are so bad what else is there to discuss?

I keep telling you that we will see when we meet up in the regular season series.

I guess you are just upset that for everyone on your team that Dudley didn't acquire we helped develop in our minor league system.

Remember what that's like?

Lecavalier, Richards, Kubina, Cullimore would win jack without the players Dudley acquired. Hell only Vincent, and Brad would be considered cornerstone pieces.

You bore me with your constant complaining. You would think that a team with so much positive going for it, would have less fans complaining about the distant past instead of the future.

Call me when your top prospect Holmqvist wins the Norris.

Nice additions in Somervouri and Perrin too, nice gamble, at least Dudley acquires players with future potential instead of basing it upon players past friends.

Then you started again:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=321855&postcount=75

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Actually, I will argue that Odelien is just as good as any of the dmen you named.
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Maybe he was, FIVE YEARS AGO. Not now though. He's horrible now.
Quote:
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Try not to combine two or three peoples messages to try to slap together some semblance of a post....
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Try not to sit here defending Dudley like one large monolithic community of sheep bleating his praises in unison, and maybe I might treat you like individuals. But until then, no.
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Nolan Pratt is a starter nowhere else but Tampa Bay, same goes for Lukowich
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Really? Last I checked Lukowich was in the top-6 for three seasons on an elite level team in Dallas before coming to the Lightning. Do you even know who Brad Lukowich is? Better yet, do you even know your OWN name?

And as for Pratt, he was way ahead of Biron on the Lightning's depth chart when he was in Tampa, so if that big pascifist pylon is in your lineup, Nolan Pratt surely could be playing for the Panthers too.
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Pascal Trepanier is for Hershey? Why would a GM got out a sign a veteran DMan for a AHL team that he doesn't even have a say in as far as even the coaching goes??
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Because of his past ties to the Hershey organization and his contractual promise to provide someone to fill an AHL veteran spot as a part of the partial affiliation agreement?

Remind me who started the partial affiliation agreements where the Lightning have no head coaching say after the Vipers shut down? Who? Rick Dudley? Say it ain't so!
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Biron may not be as physical as Sarich but at least he doesn't have a set of stone hands.
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Well golly, what's this? Cory Sarich had as many goals last year as Biron has IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER?

Do you ever THINK before you blurt embarassingly stupid insults/comparisons about players Panthers fan? Nevemind, I already know the answer.
Quote:
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Lecavalier, Richards, Kubina, Cullimore would win jack without the players Dudley acquired.
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Hmmm, looking at the opening night lineup for the Lightning: 5 of 6 guys on the top two lines were non-Dudley players. Half of the defensemen were non-Dudley players. Explain to me how this is so clearly Rick Dudley's team? How we couldn't "win jack" without Rick Dudley's players?

Let me reiterate that: we tooled Boston 5-1 with a team where 5 of 6 guys on the top two lines were non-Dudley players and half the d-men were non-Dudley players. Is this sinking in yet Panther fan? This is NOT Rick Dudley's team.

Your opening night Lightning goal scorers:
Stillman 2 goals: Feaster pickup.
Afanasenkov 1 goal:Espo/Demers/Murdoch draft pick.
Richards 1 goal: Espo/Demers/Murdoch draft pick.
Taylor 1 goal: WOW! 1 goal in 5 came from a Dudley acquisition. Jesus we owe him SUCH a debt of gratitude! ::sarcasm dripping::
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Hell only Vincent, and Brad would be considered cornerstone pieces.
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Show me a Dudley era Lightning draft pick who is better. Christ, I'll make it even easier: show me a Dudley era Lightning draft pick who is even better than Pavel Kubina. There hasn't been one that's proven they are yet. Ahhh, but that Rick Dudley, he's "Yoda, Master of the Draft" and all his draft picks turn into gold, right? You all should be so proud.
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Call me when your top prospect Holmqvist wins the Norris.
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And you call me when Dudley tries to trade Bouwmeester for a big goofy #5 (at best) defenseman and a 2nd round pick. If Dudley had the chutzpah/stupidity to try to trade Vincent Lecavalier, you can bet your life none of the bottomfeeders on your team are safe either.
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Nice additions in Somervouri and Perrin too, nice gamble, at least Dudley acquires players with future potential instead of basing it upon players past friends.
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You're right, Dudley only spent half his time in Tampa trying to give spots to ex-Vipers players like Ian Herbers, Dan Kesa, and Stan Drulia while handing over the coaching spot to Steve Ludzik. That Rick Dudley; you could NEVER accuse him of short sighted crony-ism.

I mean for crying out loud, you sat here in your last post and railed Stan Neckar when the only reason Dudley acquired Neckar in the first place was because he was an ex-Viper. And you have the audacity to accuse Feaster of doing something wrong by signing Perrin? I mean at least Perrin was one of the best players in the Finnish league last season. Explain to me what stiffs like Dan Kesa and Ian Herbers did to deserve shots under Dudley? That's a rhetorical question mostly, but I'd be ever so amused if you tried to answer it anyway.

-Pete Choquette

Petey...

You forget alot of things, just becuase you keep naming those same four players does not make them the core of your team.

Lukowich??

Now you are complaining abvout the players that were brought in even though you still contend that there were none of importance brought in by Dudley drafted or otherwise. Tell me, how can you proves previous posts right by contradicting yourself? It is all right here man. Take a look. You wrote it all.

I started getting a lot more agitated by this point in time but it still continued:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=322282&postcount=78

Neckar played for Ottawa too isn't he a huge DMan?

You're right though I can't remember my OWN name.

It is so sad to hear you complain on here about your teams own rival and their moves that you don't like. Boo Hoo.

I am so sorry that you feel slighted by Rick Dudley. Maybe we can set up a home visit for you and your fellow whinner Tampa Bay fans. And don't complain that he wasted draft picks on guys like Weekes and Cloutier when both are starters in this league.

Damn it, he acquired two future starting goaltenders and then when he knew that management and the fans had no patience he went out and acquired your starter now. When he came to Tampa you guys had no semblance of a team. He built depth in the organization which allowed him to deal for all the other pieces that supposedly aren't important to your team:

St. Louis, Boyle, Andreychuk, Taylor, Modin etc.

And looking at that list alone, I see all your veteran leadership (ie Odelein, Messier for us) your top DMan, and two top six wingers.

But they probably all play fourth line and thrid defensive pairings because Dudley acquired them. Uh huh. Notice how we don't put down your team? We don't need to. Just admit what the positives Dudley did for your team and call it a day.

And your right about the AHL deal, you probably wouldn't have an affiliate ad Dudley not steped in.

Do you even know your own team? I doubt it or at least you would be able to see that Dudley helped your organization out tremendously. All those years of losing and first round exits really got to you huh? I feel your pain. But don't worry, when we become overcrowded with our scoring forwards and DMen, I am sure you guys can pick up our scraps as always.

Maybe that's why Dudley came in the first place, he just got to skip the step of developing other teams garbage.

Lukowich, Pratt, and Sarich?

This is getting long, would you like me to continue?

How about you find the posts were I ever said that:

-Dudley was Yoda Master Of The Draft?
-Dudley deserves all the credit for your team last year
-Dudley drafted so many good players for you
-I'm sorry you think every draft pick you take needs to turn into a superstar

The whole thing basically boils down to this I said, you said BS:

Pete: Dudley is crap, he did nothing to help the team, the key players were in place when he got here.

Chaos2k: He did more than you're willing to admit. Boyle, Prospal, St. Louis, Andreychuk, Taylor etc. were significant portions of your team. Not that they were THE WHOLE team. I said he wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he did contribute more than you were willing to admit.

I have no problem with the fact you don't like him, but he did do more for your team than you stated, and I think in the just a little over a year in Florida has done the best job we have seen from a GM.

Not everyone has to like their ex GM, but admit that at least he had a hand in your guys' development. You were better from having him there than you were before he got there. Strictly looking at the records it is true.

Even your own TB fans wanted it to end:

TB_Fanatic:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=323507&postcount=86

It keeps coming back to the same crap. If I said Cullimore, Kubina, Lecavalier, and Richards were the core of the team as you claim, SURELY you can produce the post just as I produced the posts when you got convenient amnesia about calling Lightning fans and myself stupid. Is it not there Pete? Am I a liar now?

As for the W/L record as I said previously:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=326112&postcount=1

13) As for his losing record at the NHL level with when he started his three different appointments as GM, with marginal teams (at those times) Ottawa only got better, Tampa Bay got better, and now Florida is getting better. I hope he stays here for a long time to see us develop. And I guess from your sentiments, that you should be praisng ALLA that he is no longer ruining the half team he helped create in Tampa. You know, the one your so proud of.

Now, if you can tell me where I can find NHL Executive's Records Stats I would be happy to post them. But I don't need to look to find that IMO I believe he doesn't have a .500 record, but, that is a mute point. It was never about that for you or me until you were proven wrong on every other point you made.

The proof is right here. How can you deny what you wrote?

:dunno:

And THEN what happened?

Did anyone else see a hidden message in there saying Ian Herbers wants us all to help him take over the world?

I swear, it was like in A BEAUTIFUL MIND when letters started lighting up like it was in code.

I will follow you, Ian, where ever you go.

Did anyone else see a hidden message in there saying Ian Herbers wants us all to help him take over the world?

I swear, it was like in A BEAUTIFUL MIND when letters started lighting up like it was in code.

I will follow you, Ian, where ever you go.


Again, sorry for the length, but that is what was said.

:)

Did anyone else see a hidden message in there saying Ian Herbers wants us all to help him take over the world?

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!

And in all of that, not ONE post where I said Cullimore, Kubina, Lecavalier, and Richards were the core of the team. Not ONE. Yet another diversionary tactic... SURELY if you post every quote I ever made on the Panther board there must be proof of what you said SOMEWHERE in there.

No, actually there's not. There's no proof of any of the three points you blatently LIED about:

- Then you said that Dudley never acquired anything of value
- Then you said the whole core of your team is Vinny, Brad, Jason, and Pavel.
- Then you went on to rip into former Lightning players (Vinny Prospal)

I read your ENTIRE long pedantic post and I find ZERO proof of any of the points. FIND ME THE F'ING QUOTE WHERE I SAID CULLIMORE, KUBINA, LECAVALIER, AND RICHARDS ARE THE CORE OF THE TEAM!!! FIND THE F'ING QUOTE!!! YOU CAN'T FIND IT! And because you can't find it you post something a mile long in the hopes that no one will actually read the post and that somehow they will magically buy your BS. That might work in PantherNation, but it won't work here because all these Lightning fans know who I believe the core of this team is, and I've repeated it over and over and over again for the last 6 months.

But then you exacerbate the matter with poor reading comprehension skills and your nasty habit of LYING. This can be summed up on this point alone:

How about you find the posts were I ever said that:

-I'm sorry you think every draft pick you take needs to turn into a superstar

I am sorry he didn't draft anyone of substanial name power for you.

CHaos2k 10-15-2003 6:32PM

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=19994&pagenumber=1

Furthermore:

I am sorry that you feel that every prospect drafted by your team must turn into a solid NHLer for you to be happy with the GM and scouting staff.

CHaos2k 10-14-2003 12:50PM

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=17113&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=6

Well golly, how'd those two quotes not end up in your little novella? Because you're a LIAR? That must be what it is.

On another point:

-Dudley deserves all the credit for your team last year

Did you or did you not say:

Rest knowing that it was the exact same man that built your franchise and then destroyed you from down the interstate.

CHaos2k 10-7-2003 4:41PM

You're a LYING SACK OF GARBAGE!

See how this works CHaos2k? I don't have to write a 20,000 word thesis. I pick the exact quote and answer your charge, and point out your LIES. Like a man. Not like a cowardly LIAR which you are.

So you LIED about not calling Lightning fans stupid. LIED about not calling me stupid. LIED that I said those four players were in the core, that Dudley never acquired anything of value, or that I ripped Vaclav Prospal. LIED that you never claimed that I had unrealistic expectations about our draft picks. LIED that you never claimed Rick Dudley built the Lightning.

YOU'RE A LIAR! YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY!

Now don't let the door hit you on the way out.

-Pete Choquette

"I think Rick Dudley is great."

Deleted for following post..

Never said CULLIMORE, KUBINA, LECAVALIER, AND RICHARDS ARE THE CORE OF THE TEAM???

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=291316&postcount=27

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Every major aspect of your team was brought into the organization by Dudley.
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With all due respect, he inherited Vincent Lecavalier and Brad Richards, which is the axis around which the Lightning's future will turn, from Espo/Demers. He also inherited Pavel Kubina and Jassen Cullimore which are two of the team's top four defensemen from Espo/Demers as well.

What exactly does axis around which the Lightning's furture will turn? Sorry, it doesn't say "CORE OF THE TEAM" but there is no difference between those statements.

Never said Dudley never acquired anything of value?

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=323787&postcount=89

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Funny how everyone that he acquired to help compliment those that were there before him, took your team to the next level.
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You mean like Matthew Barnaby and Zdeno Ciger? Hell, aside from Torts, no other person did more to hurt Lecavalier's development than Rick Dudley because Little Ricky was completely clueless as to the need to acquire Vinny a suitable scoring winger.
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I want to be at the St. Pete Times Forum and tell the likes of St. Louis, Modin, Andreychuk, Taylor, Boyle how they were not core members of the team
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3/4 of those guys aren't core players. Now, are St. Louis and Boyle? Sure. Doesn't change the fact half the core was inherited from Espo/Demers or that 2 of our other scoring liners (Fedotenko and Stillman) have been acquired by Feaster.

You diminished their value, not me.

Never acquired ONE *** PROSPECT?

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=323787&postcount=89

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I am sorry that you feel that every prospect drafted by your team must turn into a solid NHLer for you to be happy with the GM and scouting staff.
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Not every... how about ONE. Show me ONE Rick Dudley draft pick who made the Tampa Bay Lightning opening night roster. Just one. You'd think with "Yoda, Master of the Draft" on board, they'd have ONE. Surely that's not too much to ask, is it?

But in the same breath the following Dudley picks off the top of your head are solid NHLer's?

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?po...86&postcount=46

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At least Dudley isn't so desperate for players that he trys to luck in by bringing in St.Louis' former linemate what happened to all that depth Feaster brought in?
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They now have Alex Svitov, Jimmie Olvestad, Shane Willis, and Nikita Alexeev all sitting in the minors and all of whom have played at least 60 games in the NHL. IN THE MINORS. If you can't see that as depth, then you're completely blind! And that's not even to mention two guys who were top flight scorers in the Finnish league like Perrin and Somervuori who could also be early callups too.

Do you have depth like that Panthers fan? Not PROSPECTS, legitimate NHL or European pro proven players 6 deep who you can recall on a moments notice. Do you? No? Then shoosh.

Are those same guys that you said were garbage? But now they are depth when you need them to be huh? Then he never acquired ANYONE NOT ONE *** PROSPECT? Then where did Svitov, Olvestad, Alexeev come from?

Never ripped Vinny Prospal?

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=323787&postcount=89

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The next time Vinny and Brad carry your team by themselves
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That would be last year, what with the 150 points or so between them. Look how Prospal has withered without Lecavalier as his center in Anaheim.

As if Vinny carried him. :rolleyes: Never said Dudley was Master of the Draft did I?

You did:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?postid=323787&postcount=89

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I am sorry that you feel that every prospect drafted by your team must turn into a solid NHLer for you to be happy with the GM and scouting staff.
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You'd think with "Yoda, Master of the Draft" on board, they'd have ONE. Surely that's not too much to ask, is it?

No, you're a LYING SACK OF GARBAGE!!

You wrote and read every single quote here. And still I am LYING?? You said it. DO YOU GET IT NOW?? YOU SAID IT NOT ME!!

Where are all the posts that prove me otherwise huh? WHERE??

Stop being in denial Pete you know damn well Dudley had a good part in building your team to where they are now, we really don't care what he did in TB but when you come on our board talking smack about him (and then coming back here acting all proud that you told us a thing or two...which you did not) OF COURSE your going to get disagreements and we countered your "facts" about him by showing you the *COMPLETE* facts that you seem to avoid/twist to fit your side of the arguement.

And NO PART of what I said about the two franchise players being Richards and Lecavalier isn't true. RICHARDS AND LECAVALIER YOU LYING SACK OF GARBAGE! Did I say Cullimore and Kubina? Did I?

Again FIND ME THE F'ING POST WHERE I SAID THOSE FOUR PLAYERS WERE THE CORE OR APOLOGIZE, SHUT UP, AND LEAVE!

I also love how you fail to comprehend what you read:

Funny how everyone that he acquired to help compliment those that were there before him, took your team to the next level.

Keyword: everyone. Meaning of sentence: everyone who Dudley acquired to compliment the existing players took them to the next level. FALSE. Examples: Zdeno Ciger, Todd Warriner, Mike Johnson etc etc. Those three clowns HURT Vincent Lecavalier's career.

Clear now? Or do you need a diagram?

They now have Alex Svitov, Jimmie Olvestad, Shane Willis, and Nikita Alexeev all sitting in the minors and all of whom have played at least 60 games in the NHL. IN THE MINORS.

Key words: IN THE MINORS. My God, were you dropped on your head when you were a baby?

Look how Prospal has withered without Lecavalier as his center in Anaheim.

What part of it isn't true? That's not ripping Vaclav Prospal, that's a statement of fact. Vincent Lecavalier has thrived without Prospal. The whole idea that Prospal made Lecavalier is ludicrous.

And still I am LYING??

All over the place. You're a freaking LYING sack of garbage, and now you've decided to have a fit because I've REALLY proven it with your own words, unlike the little farce you put on trying to hide a dearth of fact in a five-mile long post hoping to God no one would read it and buy into your BS. You're almost as bad as that stupid ***** lying liar Sufi on AOL, but you've at least had the brains not to drop an ethnic slur yet.

And PS monkey, Brian Burke called Rick Dudley Yoda, Master of the Draft. If you read a newspaper once in a while maybe you'd know that. Calling him Yoda, Master of Drafting in the Front Row is obviously an ironic dig at Dudley. No one ever said you called him "Yoda, Master of the Draft" so you can remove that stick from your posterior orifice at your leisure.

-Pete Choquette

you know damn well Dudley had a good part in building your team

WHAT PART OF LESS THAN HALF OF THE PLAYERS, 9/23, DON'T YOU GET??? WHAT PART OF THE LIGHTNING WERE A PRODUCT OF MULTIPLE AUTHORSHIP OF WHICH DUDLEY ONLY PLAYED A MINORITY PART DON'T YOU GET???

Wait, you're from Miami. Let me try this in espanol. Maybe you'll get it then, because you are obviously struggling mightily with the ENGLISH language.

Dudley adquirió menos que medio. Él tenía una pieza de la minoría. Usted es un bolso del ******.

Bueno?

Hasta.

-Pete Choquette

TB was in the front row of the draft loooooooooong before Dudley ever got there, same for Florida its just a coincidence and the very reason why he was brought here (to make sure we drafted wisely and I think he did a good job for the Panthers in both drafts).

Maybe you don't get that 9 of those 23 players are *KEY* players for you, get it or has the sun been effecting your brain again?

TB was in the front row of the draft loooooooooong before Dudley ever got there

AND HE NEVER GOT THEM OUT OF IT!!!

A truly good GM would've.

Post his stinking W/L record ***** Cats fans. Good ahead. Grow a set. Post his stinking W/L record. Be a man.

-Pete Choquette

Post your franchise record, go ahead go for it! :D

Maybe you don't get that those 9 of those 23 players are *KEY* players for you

Maybe you missed the part where I pointed out ONLY three of those players have played either on the top two lines, top two pairings, or started in goal.Four if you count Dan Boyle who gets a ton of IT on the power play. 4 of 9.

Well golly, Espo/Demers/Murdoch have 5 guys in those key positions.

PLEASE TELL ME HOW THIS IS DUDLEY'S TEAM AGAIN.

This has all been said before PantherNation. I suggest you consult your Huked on Fonix coloring books and learn to read what I post the first time so I don't have to sit here and waste my life precious trying to explain things to you in simple, monosyllabic terms you might actually understand.

-Pete Choquette

Wait wait wait who says its Dudley's team??? You do not us and who pretail are Feaster's key players prior to this season?

Wait wait wait who says its Dudley's team???

Once again Corky:

1.) You sat there trumpeting an incorrect article which said that.

2.) CHaos2k said:

Rest knowing that it was the exact same man that built your franchise and then destroyed you from down the interstate.

CHaos2k 10-7-2003 4:41PM

Jay Feaster has added Stillman, Fedotenko, and Lukowich.

8 of the top 11 spots this season are non Dudley players. 8 of 12 if you factor in Boyle for all the PP time he gets. And we're unbeaten and untied at 4-0 even without the "genius" of Rick Dudley. Go figure.

-Pete Choquette

We don't care about Feaster's 2003-2004 additions you dolt, we are talking about the team that ***MADE THE PLAYOFFS LAST SEASON*** and this is the *COMPLETE LIST* again since you can't read or again you are trying to avoid/twist (this order goes by how many pts they got too FYI)...


Prospal = Dudley
Lecavalier = Demers
Richards = Demers
St. Louis = Dudley
Boyle = Dudley
Modin = Dudley
Andrechuk = Dudley
Fedotenko = Feaster
Kubina = Demers
Clymer = Dudley
A.Roy = Feaster
Lukowich = Feaster
Sarich = Dudley
Taylor = Dudley
Svitov = Dudley
Laukkanen = Feaster
Pratt = Dudley
Keefe = Dudley
Bergevin = Feaster
Alexeev = Dudley
Neckar = Dudley
Cullimore = Demers
Dingman = Feaster
Olevstad = Dudley
Khabibulin = Dudley
Grahame = Feaster
Rumble = Feaster

Thats 4 for Demers, 15 for Dudley, and 8 for Feaster and Dudley added your coach, those are the facts sorry but you lose Dolt-fan Dudley had more of a hand than you think for *THE 2002-2003 SEASON* we are not talking about this season so stop bringing in Corey Stillman tard.

Once again Corky:

1.) You sat there trumpeting an incorrect article which said that.

2.) CHaos2k said:



Jay Feaster has added Stillman, Fedotenko, and Lukowich.

8 of the top 11 spots this season are non Dudley players. 8 of 12 if you factor in Boyle for all the PP time he gets. And we're unbeaten and untied at 4-0 even without the "genius" of Rick Dudley. Go figure.

-Pete Choquette

:rolleyes:

Whatever, the point remains he has a hand in your building. You also curiosly forgot post after post of me saying that Dudley doesn't deserve all the credit but he still has a major share in it. That was even in this post. I would've thought a person that claims they read so carefully, and thoroughly I am puzzled on how you missed it?

:dunno:

We don't care about Feaster's 2003-2004 additions

No, you don't want to ADMIT the lesson of the 2003-2004 roster, which is that with just 4 of 12 players in key positions coming from Dudley the Lightning are not only the last unbeaten and untied team in hockey, but that they actually have IMPROVED. This proves the fact that guys like Prospal and Neckar and all the other middlings you list aren't the key to this team's success. Core players like Richards and Lecavalier are.

Sorry to shatter your little schoolboy infatuation with dreamy Rick Dudley. Get over it! He's not that good a GM and he wasn't that important in building the Lightning.

-Pete Choquette

Really good thread and good argument until Pete started the personal attacks.

but he still has a major share in it.

He has a MINORITY share in it.

LESS THAN HALF=MINORITY

MINORITY < MAJORITY

That's as minimalist as its going to get PantherNation. Anything less and I'd have to communicate this in your native language: armpit noises.

-Pete Choquette

You still didn't answer my question who was Feaster's "key additions" for the 2002-2003 season? Stillman = 2004 addition and if Lukowich is considered a "key" player than I think you can add a lot more than 4 to Dudley's list if you consider Brad one, Fedotenko is a good contributer no arguing that even if it was for Joni Pitkanen it was a risk that worked out but still not enough to say Feaster's moves improved the Lightning.

Even your own TB media says Dudley had a big part to your success, also Inside the Lightning over the summer kept naming Dudley players as guys who really brought a lot of success to the Bolts (Keefe was named numerous times in 2001-2002 as a guy who helped move your team ahead) its not Dudley's fault he added and kept all the right pieces on the team that his draft picks haven't made it to the NHL level and Vinny is a completely different story so don't even try bringing him up because its no different than what Comrie is going through right now in Edmonton.

No, you can't.

Lukowich is a top-4 d-man in Tampa. He started the season on the 2nd pair with Kubina. That is a key position unlike the third pair a guy like Pratt plays on or the checking line a guy like Taylor plays on.

Really good thread and good argument until Pete started the personal attacks.

Excuse my Spanish.

I get bent out of shape when people start lying. This is a common theme on the message boards these days: when someone can't when an argument about the facts I present they make up things I supposedly said but never did. That's CHaos2k's entire strategy.

I'd also like to point out that CHaos2k took the low road first over on the Panthers board thread called "The Great Debate". I didn't start this, I'll sure as hell finish it.

-Pete Choquette

No, you can't.

Lukowich is a top-4 d-man in Tampa. He started the season on the 2nd pair with Kubina. That is a key position unlike the third pair a guy like Pratt plays on or the checking line a guy like Taylor plays on.



Excuse my Spanish.

I get bent out of shape when people start lying. This is a common theme on the message boards these days: when someone can't when an argument about the facts I present they make up things I supposedly said but never did. That's CHaos2k's entire strategy.

I'd also like to point out that CHaos2k took the low road first over on the Panthers board thread called "The Great Debate". I didn't start this, I'll sure as hell finish it.

-Pete Choquette

The hell you did start this but rest assured we will finish this.

Even your own TB media says Dudley had a big part to your success

One article last year by a non-Lightning beat writer does not constitute a groundswell of pro-Dudley support.

If you had really watched this summer's Inside the Lightning you would know Bobby Taylor criticized Dudley for exactly what Joe and I have said: that Dudley tinkered with the roster far too much and that the Lightning would not be successful today had not Feaster taken over, identified the real core of this team, added a piece here and there, and left them alone to develop into a division champion.

So don't tell me what it said on Inside the Lightning, because they said the exact same thing the Lightning fans here have said.

PS Sheldon Keefe made the Lightning move forward? What? Was it his whopping 12 goals or 24 points in the years that made him such an invaluable component to the team's success :joker:

-Pete Choquette

One article last year by a non-Lightning beat writer does not constitute a groundswell of pro-Dudley support.

If you had really watched this summer's Inside the Lightning you would know Bobby Taylor criticized Dudley for exactly what Joe and I have said: that Dudley tinkered with the roster far too much and that the Lightning would not be successful today had not Feaster taken over, identified the real core of this team, added a piece here and there, and left them alone to develop into a division champion.

So don't tell me what it said on Inside the Lightning, because they said the exact same thing the Lightning fans here have said.

PS Sheldon Keefe made the Lightning move forward? What? Was it his whopping 12 goals or 24 points in the years that made him such an invaluable component to the team's success :joker:

-Pete Choquette

Hey if Dudley had been allowed to "tinker" with the lineup you could have probably won the cup last year so who knows the point is that its mainly Espo/Demers/Dudley's players that made your team successful NOT Feaster's players (aka just Fedotenko/Lukowich/Grahame). Had Dudley still been there I can imagine the Lightning being better long-term with Pitkanen rather than a 27 year old Lukowich who probably won't be there too long and Fedotenko could have probably been had easy for the 2nd rounder you gave up for Lukowich.

The whole thing is:

Dudley had a major hand in the roster of your Division winning Bolts last year, and this year as well. Regardless of how little "YOU" preceive it to be.

And it eats you up inside...

You started this little last word deal, and if it is really so important for your self esteem Pete, go ahead, take it. Your flying solo now Pete, take the shot. Don't worry everybody still likes you Pete, your a good kid. Go back to your usual crutch of, we beat you last year and call it a night. We all know Rick Dudley is a bad, bad man. Did he steal your Halloween candy last year? For shame Rick Dudley, for shame.

The whole thing is:

Dudley had a major hand in the roster of your Division winning Bolts last year, and this year as well. Regardless of how little "YOU" preceive it to be.

And it eats you up inside...

You started this little last word deal, and if it is really so important for your self esteem Pete, go ahead, take it. Your flying solo now Pete, take the shot. Don't worry everybody still likes you Pete, your a good kid. Go back to your usual crutch of, we beat you last year and call it a night. We all know Rick Dudley is a bad, bad man. Did he steal your Halloween candy last year? For shame Rick Dudley, for shame.

Hes probably just disgruntled over the fact Dudley "dipped out" on the Bolts and ended up here instead but all in all it still worked out for Tampa without him.

Hey if Dudley had been allowed to "tinker" with the lineup you could have probably won the cup last year

Without Vincent Lecavalier? Not bloody likely. :rolleyes:

Espo/Demers/Dudley's players that made your team successful NOT Feaster's players (aka just Fedotenko/Lukowich/Grahame).

Oh, so we should forget Fedotenko's 19 goals last year (6 game winners), we should forget Lukowich was a top-4 d-man who covered up for Dan Boyle all season and was amongst our +/- leaders, and we should forget John Grahame came in and upgraded our backup situation from the horror that was Kevin Hodson to a guy who won 6 games, including a stretch in January-February where he held us in the season (which every Lightning fan here will tell you) and had a .920sv%?

Right. They suck. :rolleyes:

and Fedotenko could have probably been had easy for the 2nd rounder you gave up for Lukowich.

Except we didn't have a 2nd rounder until the two we got in the deal with Philly. Don't let those pesky historical details bog you down though. And even if you're right and Dudley gets Pitkanen, it means squat because A.) Pitkanen won't be an impact player for probably another 3-4 years and B.) HE WOULD'VE TRADED VINCENT LECAVALIER!!!

And it eats you up inside...

Not really. My team, under Jay Feaster, is 4-0 and won a division championship last year finishing 23 points ahead of the Panthers and Yoda, Master of Drafting in the Front Row. That makes me happy.

Hes probably just disgruntled over the fact Dudley "dipped out" on the Bolts

If you refer to the story archives here there is a Lightning Roundtable from right after when Dudley got pushed out where I took the position that Dudley got what he deserved. This wasn't an acquired position. The folks here can attest that for years leading up to his forced resignation I was decidedly anti-Dudley. That man did nothing but torture this fan base and its a blessing he's gone... and poetic irony that YOU'RE stuck with him now. No one deserves him more.

-Pete Choquette

You cat fan's are awfully inept at bringing up valid points...


Even your own TB media says Dudley had a big part to your success

Our media are comprised of fair weather snobs and dimwitted yahoos. V