Who needs to go?

and why?

My choice isnt there but I went with both.

To me its obvious the players dont like Cassidy....if you cant see it your blind. Cassidy to me has his good points and his bad points. I want to like him but he cant seem to get a good thing going with this team. If its lack of chemstry, lack of offense, lack of whatever...he needs to get the most out of his players...and he's just not doing that.

Jagr....well....I think Cassidy is mis-using him to be honest. Yeah...you want to win and lose as a team....but with a Jaromir Jagr...you have to play the SOB. You cant expect an 11 million dollar player that has a strangle hold on the organization to only play 17-20 minutes a night. Play the ******* until he passes out each night. Then...if it works we have a decent team with some offense. Yeah the defense isnt the best but that will imporave as the younger players get more time.

But in the long run....he needs to be traded just becasue of the CBA coming up. Im so torn over who's fault it is...who to blame...who to get rid of.

Cassidy...we have examples of his stupidy. Jagr...we know how good he haas and can be. Cassidy should go...Jagr shouldnt be will have to in the long run because of the salary.

Sad situation reguardless.

I think it has to be Cassidy OR Jagr--not both and not neither. One of them.

...but it's not really because of a lack of "a system." It's because he


1.) lacks basic understanding of what it takes to succeed in the NHL
2.) Favors the hell out of previous AHL buddies from GR, both in ice time, in number of mistakes before benching and just in general
3.) Makes defensive pairings that are horrendously inept (gonch and kiwi??!)
4.) Doesn't allow physical players the ice time to develop, make mistakes and learn from them... they make one small mistake and they're benched.
5.) Has buried our prospects under waiver wire trash.
6.) Because he gets a bench minor EVERY SINGLE GAME!!!
7.) Can't motivate or light a fire under anyone, nor does he seem to hold people accountable... especially if they're from GR.
8.) Vets don't seem to respect him at all.


On top of that, I want McPhee gone too. Other than the Oates robbery, he really hasn't done any deals that were really positive. Nor does he EVER deal for talent which addresses a need (last season at the deadline, the team was screaming for a stay-at-home vet defender... he gets us Sergei Berezin!? Coulda had Bob Boughner, McLaren and a few others).

New coach, new GM, less GR trash, and you'll see this team make an about face in terms of standings and general competitiveness. I long for the days of Schoney's squads... where even if we didn't win a lot, we still pounded the hell out of every team that came in our house, and shut down the opposition's offense.

I voted neither because I'm a sarcastic bastad

In truth I think both need to go:
Jagr simply doesn't have the players around him to reach his full potential. Since the organization hasn't gone out to really compliment Jagr nor seems interested in building an offensive minded team I don't know why he was ever acquired (other then PR). But GMGM simply isn't going out to find him the top shelf center to compliment his game that Jagr really needs to break out.

Cassidy needs to go because he's surrounded with solid upper tier players like Jagr, Bondra, Lang, Gonchar, Olie, he had good depth guys like Witt, Kono, Halpern, Grier, and he has some solid prospects to mold like Eminger, Sutherby and yet he can't find a way to utilize any of these guys to their potential. No real system...no real motivational skills (doesn't show it on the bench anyway), and simply doesn't have the attention or faith of the players to build a solid system...80 + games is an awful long feeling out process.

I voted neither because I'm a sarcastic bastad

In truth I think both need to go:
Jagr simply doesn't have the players around him to reach his full potential. Since the organization hasn't gone out to really compliment Jagr nor seems interested in building an offensive minded team I don't know why he was ever acquired (other then PR). But GMGM simply isn't going out to find him the top shelf center to compliment his game that Jagr really needs to break out.

Cassidy needs to go because he's surrounded with solid upper tier players like Jagr, Bondra, Lang, Gonchar, Olie, he had good depth guys like Witt, Kono, Halpern, Grier, and he has some solid prospects to mold like Eminger, Sutherby and yet he can't find a way to utilize any of these guys to their potential. No real system...no real motivational skills (doesn't show it on the bench anyway), and simply doesn't have the attention or faith of the players to build a solid system...80 + games is an awful long feeling out process.

first point...<<Jagr....well....I think Cassidy is mis-using him to be honest. Yeah...you want to win and lose as a team....but with a Jaromir Jagr...you have to play the SOB. You cant expect an 11 million dollar player that has a strangle hold on the organization to only play 17-20 minutes a night. Play the ******* until he passes out each night. Then...if it works we have a decent team with some offense. Yeah the defense isnt the best but that will imporave as the younger players get more time. >>

If a guy is getting 18-20 minutes a game and creating nothing, 25-30minutes would get you 5 to 10 more minutes of nothing....right?
Cassidy is trying to win enough games to keep his job....right?
So, go ahead Butch, when the guy is delivering nothing and you are behind by a goal or two keep throwing him out there. Laughlin says he is just standing around. So, give more ice time and bite the bullett on the game....right? Come on.

second point....Jagr simply doesn't have the players around him to reach his full potential. Since the organization hasn't gone out to really compliment Jagr nor seems interested in building an offensive minded team I don't know why he was ever acquired (other then PR). But GMGM simply isn't going out to find him the top shelf center to compliment his game that Jagr really needs to break out.

How many of those centers are there? Both Nylander and Lang were in the top 20 scoring for centers last year. While they MAY both be 2nd line centers, if they are both in the top 20, then they are BOTH not feeding off of Jagr to get ahead. Its also fair to say that if there are 30 teams in the NHL and the Caps have two in the top 20 and neither are
top shelf centers there can not be that many of them around.

by the way...how many offense first, offensive minded teams are there in the NHL?
NJ-Trap, Anaheim-Trap, MN-Trap, Ottawa-Trap, Dallas-Trap, Detroit-Trap, Philadelphia-Trap, St. Louis-Trap.....this year....Atlanta-Trap.
Who has an offensive minded team and is getting somewhere with it?
The Rangers don't trap.

Get me Ovechkin. At least we might get a Calder candidate out of it if they both stick around.

txpd stop putting words in my mouth. Where AT ALL did I even mention ice time in that post???

My point...clearly not that you care but the Caps knew what they were bringing in when they traded for Jagr. What did GM/Ted think? Jagr was going to turn into a masterful two way forward? Jagr has thought O first throughout his career and my guess he's still of that mindset and there isn't a coach alive that will ever change his mind. You went off on ice time to argue a point that I didn't even make. If anything you'll find I agree with you...just look at my response in your Cass-Jagr R2 thread when it comes to that. While in the past there have been plenty of O-minded winners, today's game simply doesn't allow for that. D and goaltending take the Cup. That's not a lecture I need to learn.

Now let me ask you if you were going to build a scoring line would you start with Nylander or Lang up the middle? Do you think that Nylander compliements Jagr and bring out his best skills? Do you really think 61 points in 82 games signifies that Nylander is a top line center?

There may not be 30 centers that qualify as premier play makers or scorers but there are plenty off the top of my mind that I'd rather have then Lang or Nylander. And I'd like to see you argue that you're happy having Miller (Semin/Ciernik) on the left side over the last 80+ games under Cassidy.

Maybe it is just semantics but in my mind "offensive minded" does not mean purely offensive system that utterly disregards defense. That seems to be a pretty big leap in logic.

To me it makes sense if you have an explosive scoring player/line you don't force that line to submit to a defensive system. Give them a little more freedom and leeway in creating offense…i.e. offensive minded. I'd hope a creative coach has the vision to find ways to utilize each player to their fullest potential. That vision should include creative offensive players.

txpd stop putting words in my mouth. Where AT ALL did I even mention ice time in that post???

My point...clearly not that you care but the Caps knew what they were bringing in when they traded for Jagr. What did GM/Ted think? Jagr was going to turn into a masterful two way forward? Jagr has thought O first throughout his career and my guess he's still of that mindset and there isn't a coach alive that will ever change his mind. You went off on ice time to argue a point that I didn't even make. If anything you'll find I agree with you...just look at my response in your Cass-Jagr R2 thread when it comes to that. While in the past there have been plenty of O-minded winners, today's game simply doesn't allow for that. D and goaltending take the Cup. That's not a lecture I need to learn.

Now let me ask you if you were going to build a scoring line would you start with Nylander or Lang up the middle? Do you think that Nylander compliements Jagr and bring out his best skills? Do you really think 61 points in 82 games signifies that Nylander is a top line center?

There may not be 30 centers that qualify as premier play makers or scorers but there are plenty off the top of my mind that I'd rather have then Lang or Nylander. And I'd like to see you argue that you're happy having Miller (Semin/Ciernik) on the left side over the last 80+ games under Cassidy.

actually the ice time portion of that post came from a post before yours. i quoted it and did not attribute it to you.

Miller is there because Jagr wants him there. This 4 game pointless streak and Jagr's apparant bad attitude started in the Atlanta game when Miller was benched and continued while Miller was playing few if any minutes with Jagr or was even scratched from the St. Louis game.
Jagr wants Miller. He does not want Bondra or Zubrus to create and finish on his line. He does not want any muscle like Grier to protect him.
He does not want rookies. He wants Miller.

Jagr also seems to want Nylander. Nylander is not much of a shooter.
Niether is Miller for that matter. Jagr seems to want players that can and will pass him the puck.

My choice isnt there but I went with both.

To me its obvious the players dont like Cassidy....if you cant see it your blind. Cassidy to me has his good points and his bad points. I want to like him but he cant seem to get a good thing going with this team. If its lack of chemstry, lack of offense, lack of whatever...he needs to get the most out of his players...and he's just not doing that.

Jagr....well....I think Cassidy is mis-using him to be honest. Yeah...you want to win and lose as a team....but with a Jaromir Jagr...you have to play the SOB. You cant expect an 11 million dollar player that has a strangle hold on the organization to only play 17-20 minutes a night. Play the ******* until he passes out each night. Then...if it works we have a decent team with some offense. Yeah the defense isnt the best but that will imporave as the younger players get more time.

But in the long run....he needs to be traded just becasue of the CBA coming up. Im so torn over who's fault it is...who to blame...who to get rid of.

Cassidy...we have examples of his stupidy. Jagr...we know how good he haas and can be. Cassidy should go...Jagr shouldnt be will have to in the long run because of the salary.

Sad situation reguardless.

spot on.....

You HAVE to play Jagr.....some people will say he has to earn his ice time. Well....after 2 games he had 4 points......in period 1 of the 3rd game 7 forwards had more ice time than Jagr....I can understand maybe cutting his ice time after weeks of poor play....but that was just ridiculous. Like it or not.....Stick Jagr on the ice as much as you can....and just forget about it.

Its so clear that the players...especially the veteran players...just dont like, or dont have faith in Cassidy.

My two cents is that Jagr is the 11 million dollar man. To me that means playing on the 24-7. Get the dude on the ice. I still don't understand why he isn't on the PK. Teams would have to be a little more careful out there.

Mothra, How can you give Jagr more ice time when the team is PK'ing half the Game and Jagr could not kill a penalty if his life depended on it?

Mothra, How can you give Jagr more ice time when the team is PK'ing half the Game and Jagr could not kill a penalty if his life depended on it?

PK'ing half the game? Think thats a bit of an exaggeration?

They should double shift him some.....get him on the PP more (and with better players...WHAT is Halpern doing on the PP???)

as it is...Jagr is currently 59th in the NHL among forwards in TOI per game....

he needs to do much better with his ice time......but he also needs more of it

I said they both need to go:

I wouldn't make Cassidy an assistant in the AHL from what I've seen of him. He's got enough talent to win more than he loses on his bench if he installs a system and works with it. I've seen him do none of that. Maybe the Caps need to call up Army or give Carrot the shot.

Jagr, man that was a bad move from day one. He's never been the guy that was comfortable in a leadership position yet the Caps paid him like he was. His best days clearly were with Mario owning the spotlight.

Still, this teams biggest weakness could be its biggest strength if the coaching would get its head out of its posterior. Stop po'ing your kids in the pipeline and develop Cutta and Yonkman into NHLers. Trade Fortin for a furlined bag of pucks and stop calling him up....he has done zero to deserve it. Most of all, Forget last season and forget that there is even a hockey team in Grand Rapids.

I said they both need to go:

I wouldn't make Cassidy an assistant in the AHL from what I've seen of him. He's got enough talent to win more than he loses on his bench if he installs a system and works with it. I've seen him do none of that. Maybe the Caps need to call up Army or give Carrot the shot.

Jagr, man that was a bad move from day one. He's never been the guy that was comfortable in a leadership position yet the Caps paid him like he was. His best days clearly were with Mario owning the spotlight.

Still, this teams biggest weakness could be its biggest strength if the coaching would get its head out of its posterior. Stop po'ing your kids in the pipeline and develop Cutta and Yonkman into NHLers. Trade Fortin for a furlined bag of pucks and stop calling him up....he has done zero to deserve it. Most of all, Forget last season and forget that there is even a hockey team in Grand Rapids.

Beez:

if the coach is Tim, say goodbye to a Calder Cup run, because Portland is done, because the assistant tanked in 1998, in Mark Kumpel, who should've been axed then, but for some reason has been here for SIX Years :rolleyes:

Beez:

if the coach is Tim, say goodbye to a Calder Cup run, because Portland is done, because the assistant tanked in 1998, in Mark Kumpel, who should've been axed then, but for some reason has been here for SIX Years :rolleyes:

I'm sure the Caps front office couldnt care less if they moved Army to the big club (as HC) and how it affected any sort of Calder Cup chance.....and they shouldnt.....the priority is the big club. If they fired Cassidy and thought Army was ready and the right guy...they wouldnt for a second hesitate......

You want a minor league coach to help develope your young players and prepare them for the next level......winning is nice.....and important (get players used to being successful, expecting to win, keep the fans of the minor league team happy/interested)....but at the end of the day you do whats right for the big club.

for the record...Army would not be my choice as a Cassidy replacement

I'm sure the Caps front office couldnt care less if they moved Army to the big club (as HC) and how it affected any sort of Calder Cup chance.....and they shouldnt.....the priority is the big club. If they fired Cassidy and thought Army was ready and the right guy...they wouldnt for a second hesitate......

You want a minor league coach to help develope your young players and prepare them for the next level......winning is nice.....and important (get players used to being successful, expecting to win, keep the fans of the minor league team happy/interested)....but at the end of the day you do whats right for the big club.

for the record...Army would not be my choice as a Cassidy replacement

I agree with pretty much everything you say...one question though: Who would your choice as coach be?

I voted both, but really I think Cassidy should be definitely fired, then give Jagr a chance and if nothing changes he needs to go too. Getting someone to take him is an issue though.
It looks to me like Cassidy has lost most of the team, not just Jagr. Can someone please explain the constant too many men penalties? I've been told that it's an issue that's the players fault, not the coach's. But if the players repeatedly do the same thing wrong shouldn't the coach be addressing that? If he isn't, then that alone means he should be fired. And if he is it's obvious he's lost the team cause they're not listening.